Warren deflected a question on whether Obama has been too cautious in his strategy to combat the Islamic terrorist group and pushed back on potentially broader unilateral action.It's like she got a memo to talk tough, but there's nothing behind the talk. Not even a little more talk. Just "Full-speed ahead."
"We can't get pulled into another war in the Middle East," she said. "We need to be working with others to close ISIS down."
Who says "Full-speed ahead"? Where does that come from? David Glasgow Farragut, the U.S. Navy Admiral, famously said in the Civil War Battle of Mobile Bay: "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" Actually, he said: "Damn the torpedoes. Four bells, Captain Drayton, go ahead. Jouett, full speed," but it's remembered as "Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!" Farragut has ordered his fleet to enter the heavily mined Mobile Bay:
When the monitor USS Tecumseh struck a mine [that is a "torpedo"] and sank, the others began to pull back. Farragut could see the ships pulling back from his high perch, where he was lashed to the rigging of his flagship, USS Hartford. "What's the trouble?", he shouted through a trumpet to USS Brooklyn. "Torpedoes", was the shouted reply. "Damn the torpedoes.", said Farragut, "Four bells, Captain Drayton, go ahead. Jouett, full speed." The bulk of the fleet succeeded in entering the bay.So, Senator Warren, is this the sort of thing you mean? Would Farragut have said "We can't get pulled into another war" and "We need to be working with others"?
(Warren photo by Tim Pierce.)
Did you really mean to adopt his words or was that just a handy expression that felt like the sort of thing one says when talking tough? Farragut wasn't talking tough. He was witnessing a sinking ship in a mined harbor and ordering many ships to charge into that harbor anyway. Damn the danger!
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I think it means she won't be joining Joe at the Gates of Hell.
We need to be working now, full-speed ahead, with other countries, to destroy ISIS.
I assume she plans to do this via regulation. That is how she destroys everything else...
IiB +1
Elizabeth Warren: Yet another empty pantsuit.
BTW, has anyone checked Obama's pants to see if they zip in front, side or back?
I remember when Democrats mocked overly simplistic sloganing about "destroying our enemies" and "boots in their asses" coming from the likes of Toby Keith. Now, between our Vice-Moron and Warren, this vague promise to "destroy" our enemies is what passes for statesmanlike.
How about this--if you want the U.S. to take an active role in destroying ISIS, then explain now--before we drop any more bombs--just what you believe it will take to do the job, and why you believe that will be sufficient. Otherwise, you're promising to do this half-assed and either escalate beyond this country's ability to stomach it, or pull out midway.
I know, they don't make Nobel Prizewinners like they used to. But at least watch some old movies and see how presidents are supposed to behave, and try to do that.
Ignorance is Bliss
+2
You may retire for the day, sir. Your work here is done.
Can't we destroy ISIS with a twitter campaign, like we did with Boko Haram? We could get a photo of Michelle Obama looking all sad with a "#destroyISIS" sign. At least it wouldn't be the dumbest thing this administration has done.
Why is ISIS a concern? Doesn't she have some banks to oversee? Some old people to protect and Obamacare to preserve?
Tsk tsk ,such a violent woman using violent imagery.
That should include immediate charging of US citizens joining or supporting ISIS/ISO with TREASON as provided by Article-III, Section-3 of our Constitution---Even if not yet in custody.
IiB Comment of the year.
Warren could at least offer to use her Indian tracking skills to find the members of ISIS.
Isn't talk all that is required from these people? Tough talk. Red line. Bring to justice.
Insulting bullshit.
Little-known fact: Just before the USS Tecumseh sailed into the mine-filled harbor and sank, Admiral Farragut had told its sailors, "If you like your ship, you can keep your ship."
She could suggest closing the border.....
Nah.
The Civil War - a time when men were men, women were women...
Why should we destroy the ancient Egyptian goddess Isis?
Didn't she get the memo?
President Academic Lecturer: "We know that if we are joined by the international community, we can continue to shrink ISIL's sphere of influence, its effectiveness, its financing, its military capabilities to the point where it is a manageable problem."
Destroy? No Way. Manageable Problems are the way of the future. A future that "must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam".
Dems and Progs got to protect their trade in $12 girls sold into slavery. It makes them happy.
I wonder if Senator Warren has a good Christian slave girl on order from Boko Haram (or their real name of 'People Committed to the Prophet's Teachings for Propagation and Jihad').
Democrats. Supporting slavery from their founding until today!
Full speed ahead? Why didn't Fauxcahontas say "It's time to go on the warpath?"
Or maybe she could have made her statement while wearing a "war bonnet".
Aren't statements like this--when made by a Republican--likely to elicit Democrat cat calls of "chicken hawk"?
Mindless twaddle and mush are what leading Dems are serving up these days.
Exactly what forces does Ms. Warren think we should hurl at the villainous Levantines?
Our denatured Army, reduced to one armored and one infantry division, precisely ONE brigade of which is rated as combat ready? Which is being stripped of its most senior and experienced NCO's? Not one unit of which has trained in the last four months according to the JCS?
Our dashing airborne forces, who have been stripped of their airborne qualification since they have not been permitted to practice parachuting?
Our Air Force and naval aviation, which are being stripped of their A-10 ground attack aircraft and the precision guided weapons such as Hellfire and Maverick which are being taken out of production?
Our invincible Navy, whose Tomahawk missiles are being cancelled?
Who do we send, Fauxcahontas?
The only people joining Joe at the Gates of Hell anytime soon in the War on Terror will most likely be American civilians.
JRoberts — Velcro flies. Fine motor control is usually at a premium towards closing time in those bars.
Famous John Paul Jones quote: "I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way."
Echoed in WWII by a captain (whose name escapes me right now) who took over a CVN right before Midway, assembled the sailors and marines on deck, and gave them a chance to get off because he intended to "sail into harms way and destroy the enemy."
FWIW, he did.
I'm not so confident today.
-XC
richard mcenroe said...
Exactly what forces does Ms. Warren think we should hurl at the villainous Levantines?
Our denatured Army, reduced to one armored and one infantry division, precisely ONE brigade of which is rated as combat ready? Which is being stripped of its most senior and experienced NCO's? Not one unit of which has trained in the last four months according to the JCS?
Our dashing airborne forces, who have been stripped of their airborne qualification since they have not been permitted to practice parachuting?
Our Air Force and naval aviation, which are being stripped of their A-10 ground attack aircraft and the precision guided weapons such as Hellfire and Maverick which are being taken out of production?
Our invincible Navy, whose Tomahawk missiles are being cancelled?
Who do we send, Fauxcahontas?
Checked your profile, added your website to my firefox toolbar.
She uses more truculent language in regard to the Tea Party or American corporations.
Meh. She's just doing what all the other pols and pundits are doing. Demanding decisive international action and the destruction of ISIS, but not providing any real strategy.
We're not going to do much about ISIS. We would need more troops in there, and that's not going to happen. So we will get hot air and saber rattling.
She speaks with forked tongue. At the first election of a Republican she will be leading the anti war protests with Cindy Sheehan.
First, IiB +5
Next, Lizzie Warren looks like she has no muscle tone. She looks like carrying her purse might be a strain. I think someone who thinks they can lead should look like they DO something. She looks like she does nothing, except spout nonsense, which weighs nothing, but can destroy young minds.
She is a lightweight, but more than that, she LOOKS like a lightweight.
"We can't get pulled into another war in the Middle East," she said. "We need to be working with others to close ISIS down."
Full-speed ahead to destroy them, but don't get into another war?
Does she imagine that wanting it real bad will cause it to happen without those pesky "war" things?
As an Amerindian (Ward Churchill tribe), Liz should know about warfare.
Administration (and now Warren) policy: To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.
Wouldn't you know it. The only gene Lizzie Warren gets from her native American ancestors is Tecumseh's gene.
She should have said "We need to hammer ISIS."
or maybe "You didn't build that caliphate on your own..."
She forgot to include "...and we won't have any boots on the ground."
That way she can cover all possible positions: 1) We must destroy ISIS at full speed, 2) We will work with other countries (which isn't a speedy process) and 3) We won't get involved with a war with soldiers getting killed (which is hard to do in either 1) or 2)
These people who beheaded our citizens will be brought to justice. Blah blah.
It is interesting that old line conservatives, like Ron and Rand Paul, say we should avoid entanglements in overseas wars by murderous Empires seeking world conquest, be they German in Poland and Russia, Japanese in China, or ISIL Muslims in the Levant and then wait until theycome after us.
They always come after us because we are there. Only Obama thinks we can hide out in Harvard yard.
War-path Lizzie is amazing. She is going to have trouble getting re-elected in Massachusetts.
I'm sure Code Pink and ANSWER will be protesting this warmongering virago any minute now.
Any minute at all...
She is clueless.
American forces were blocked south of New Orleans. Like the British were in 1814. But if they could get north of the City past the forts and mines, it would fall into in their hands.
The US Navy under Farragut morphed into the Marines Corps and attacked until they broke through. Doing that was a big deal, because the Captains risked their ships and their own lives.
Expat(ish): "Echoed in WWII by a captain (whose name escapes me right now) who took over a CVN right before Midway, assembled the sailors and marines on deck, and gave them a chance to get off because he intended to "sail into harms way and destroy the enemy."
A couple quibbles:
1) There were no nuclear powered vessels in WWII. CV"N" is reserved for nuclear powered attack (fixed wing primarily) carriers
2) The only admiral (not captain) I recall taking over a Carrier group (not just a single carrier) just before the battle of Midway was RADM Ray Spruance who replaced a laid up Bull Halsey (who had a skin condition and was played amusingly by Li'l Bobby Mitchum in the production of "In Harms Way" with the Duke). I think Glenn Ford played Spruance in the movie.
I don't recall any reports of Spruance being credited with repeating JPJ's line but I might have missed it.
Most interesting aspect of Spruance assuming command of the group was that Spruance was not an Aviator, which was considered by some to be a sacrilege of sorts. Halsey thought very highly of Spruance and his tactical acumen, thus the promotion.
Expat
You are probably thinking of Ernest E. Evans who did tell his crew he intended to go in "harms way".
He wasn't kidding. At the battle of Leyte Gulf, the fleet of small aircraft carriers his destroyer was escorting was ambushed by the entire Japanese fleet.
He attacked at once, sinking a cruiser and disrupting the Japanese attack so the carriers could get away.
Captain Evans was lost, along with his ship and unlike Elizabeth Warren was a real Indian and someone who really meant what he said.
A true hero. RIP.
richard mcenroe: "Our invincible Navy, whose Tomahawk missiles are being cancelled?"
This very thing happened under Clinton as well.
People forget just how much the military was hollowed out under Clinton and had to be rearmed when Bush became President.
Come to think of it, Reagan faced the same thing after Carter and the dems control of congress for 40 years.
Gee, it's like a theme or something.
What Bill R said.
Ambrose said...
She should have said "We need to hammer ISIS."
A more effective strategy might be to get ISIS hammered. I've never heard of any war started by someone who was stoned. Airdrop some premium weed and bongs, sit back, and sell them some munchies. Call it Operation Weed-n-Feed.
Yeah....cuz the last academic twit with an empty CV worked out soooo well.
Alex said...
The Civil War - a time when men were men, women were women...
And everyone appreciated the difference!
By all means, talk tough but do nothing that might be hard or difficult or expensive or unpopular. Lead from behind, which is where you end up if retreat is your default mode.
It's all about fooling the rubes, except that no one is being fooled.
Bill R, et al — "Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors" describes the fight Evans, his fellow destroyermen and a handful of unarmored escort carriers put up in Leyte Gulf. They prevented what could have been an absolute disaster if the last prong of the Japanese naval counterattack on the Phillippine landings had gotten through to the transports and beaches.
The first two prongs had already been hammered into the seabed by US battleships literally dredged up out of the mud of Pearl Harbor and sent back into battle, but the third came from an unexpected and (incredibly) undefended direction.
The "damn the torpedoes" line isn't just good rhetoric. It's a demonstration of what it takes to win a war: You have to be prepared for you and your troops to die in great numbers, in order to defeat the enemy. Some say the Confederacy lost the Civil War at Gettysburg, but the nails started really being hammered into the coffin when, after the horrendous defeat at Cold Harbor, Grant continued to drive against Lee's army.
The Iraqi Army ran away from the forces of the Islamic State. I suspect the Kurds would do the same. Until the US is prepared to commit substantial forces to the fight, the IS will win. And all the "gates of Hell" and "full speed ahead" rhetoric from the sunshine soldiers won't make a damn difference.
Actually, Kirk Douglas took a CVN into the Pearl Harbor attack in "The Final Countdown." I remember the audience cheering F-14's shooting down Zeros.
Damn the Torpedoes Full Speed Ahead was from the Civil War, when chewing up troops was seen as regrettable but necessary. These days the troops are a more precious asset, and not just from a moral point of view. Given the downsizing and upteching of the military, the number of actual combatants is remarkably small. You need a damn good reason to put them in danger.
I would not want to be in charge or recruiting and retaining a volunteer army with Elizabeth as Commander in Chief.
richard mcenroe said...
Actually, Kirk Douglas took a CVN into the Pearl Harbor attack in "The Final Countdown." I remember the audience cheering F-14's shooting down Zeros.
Actually, Kirk and the fellas didn't get a chance to lower the boom on the unsuspecting Japanese Imperial naval fleet since that "Global Warming/Climate Disruption" funnel cake/cloud gobbled them up and returned them to the present.
Drago, I'm sensing a trend in the Democrats you listed. Hmmmm.
At least she didn't say, "with all deliberate speed."
But really, what's the hurry? It's too late to save the 2 Americans who are already dead.
Speed may save other lives, but that's where enlisting other countries who are closer to the situation may be the best policy.
Admiral Farragut's attack on Mobile Bay took place on August 5, 1864, more than three years after the April 12, 1861 attack on Fort Sumter.
She wasn't so keen on fighting ISIS when it was called AQI.
It's easy to talk when you are a senator.
Drago They shot down the two Zeros that sank Charles' Durning's yacht.
"We need to be working now…"
You should be but you are not.
"full speed ahead"
As soon as you start working, whenever that is, work quickly.
"with other countries"
So, no work until the countries are rounded up
"That should be our No. 1 priority"
But isn't.
After Halsey was given command in the South Pacific in October, 1942 the once missing US Navy came back to Guadalcanal and started attacking the Japaneses Navy. Over the next six weeks the Marines who had not seen their Navy for two months Marines suffered another thousand casualties, while the US Navy suffered 6,000 casualties.
His secret said Halsey is putting heavy fire on the enemy first.
Expat
You are probably thinking of Ernest E. Evans who did tell his crew he intended to go in "harms way".
He wasn't kidding. At the battle of Leyte Gulf, the fleet of small aircraft carriers his destroyer was escorting was ambushed by the entire Japanese fleet.
He attacked at once, sinking a cruiser and disrupting the Japanese attack so the carriers could get away.
Captain Evans was lost, along with his ship and unlike Elizabeth Warren was a real Indian and someone who really meant what he said.
A true hero. RIP.
I prefer when Dewey said, "You may fire when ready, Gridley".
The "fierce urgency" of "hey lets degrade ISIS".
The Godfather said...
The Iraqi Army ran away from the forces of the Islamic State. I suspect the Kurds would do the same.
A coworker who is an Army intel specialists disagrees with you on the Kurds. They've already proven they'll stand and fight. They just need some heavy weapons to counter what ISIS has. It's hard to stand against a tank when all you have are AK-47s. The need heavy mortars and anti-tank weapons. Heavy machine guns would help a lot, too.
The Kurds are shipping oil through Turkey so even the Turks are good with the idea of an independent Kurdistan carved out of Iraqi territory.
Warren is like a lot of her colleagues from ten years ago who wanted to talk tough but leave enough vagueness to weasel out of any wars that don't go so well. "I favored taking out Hussein, but I didn't favor us having so many casualties!"
She's saying just enough to show she hates ISIS (wow, way to go out on a limb there Liz, what with all the nuance regarding whether they're a bunch of swell fellows) but leaving enough wiggle room to disown any escalation that turns unpopular with her drum circle base.
I suspect such escalation to begin to get unpopular with the Occupy crowd at just about the time a Republican president takes over and has to inherit whatever mess Obama gave him. Then they'll suddenly pull Cindy Sheehan out of whatever dorm room debate she's in, and it's back to being anti-war.
What a bunch of principled leaders.
@Drago - The N was a typo, you are right, it was a CV and I have a picture of the book where I done read that - just got to find the dang box.
@BillR - I remember reading about Evan's taking his destroyer *right* into the Japanese fleet to give the CV's (got it right that time) time to get out of range. Probably in "Last stand of the tin can sailors" - an excellent book.
For those who like that sort of thing, "Halseys Typhoon" with a surprise visit from GHWB and Ford.
-XC
Don't break your head over it, Prof. A.
It's just one of those ill-defined, amorphous, or emotion charged words used by politicians and writers to leave the impression that something meaningful was said/written.
E.g.:
..recent Obama speach: "...tons of young people..." (How many young people are in a ton?)
..recent newspaper article: "...women were forced to go to an abortion clinic in San Antonio." (They were kidnapped and taken forcibly there? Or was it just that San Antonio was the nearest facility after the local facility closed?)
Full speed ahead to the Gates of Hell!
Who knew Dems were such hawks?
ISIS says: "Oh, so you don't want to go to war? Thats cool bro, neither do we. Now submit."
Fore!
"Our invincible Navy, whose Tomahawk missiles are being cancelled?"
Once we get to a negligible military, the Democrats usually get us into trouble. Carter in Iran, Clinton in Somalia and now Obummer will pull off the hat trick. Three for three.
If the British Navy had emulated Faragut, they would have forced the Dardanelles and the straits of the Bosphorus and Gallipoli would have been unnecessary.
Fen said...
ISIS says: "Oh, so you don't want to go to war? Thats cool bro, neither do we. Now submit."
It's true that it is always quite simple to have peace and avoid war.
All you have to do is surrender.
Unconditionally.
i read that as she wants us to talk someone else into doing the dirty work
Damn the Torpedoes always reminds me of the great Jean Arthur comedy - More the Merrier. Charles Coburn used it all the time. fyi - it was an inside the beltway movie!
@Larry J -- I hope you're right about the Kurds. But you can't lead unless you've got skin in the game. So far, the US doesn't (except the throats of some reporters, of course).
My guess: ever since the Obama administration phased out the Bush administration's color coded alert warnings, this is the closest proxy we have for the old "Condition Red - Severe Risk Level" warning.
In other words, there are enough credible threats of major terrorist attacks against the US that the more politically adept Dems are making sure that they are on the record as calling for tough action before such attacks happen. If Dems appear complacent, and an attack occurs, the Republicans will own every major election for the next six to eight years.
Again, this rhetoric from Democrats is dishonest.
We were fighting ISIS for five years and we beat them. They were called Al Qaeda in Iraq. The leaders were the same and many of the personnel are the same. And they were done in 2008, driven out of all major cities and unable to influence the politics of the country.
Then we left and they came back because of decisions made by the President and the leading lights in the Democratic party.
Why isn't this point made more often? This is a direct result of the President's foreign policy. The name change from AQI to ISIS doesn't mean anything. The people, and the tactics, are the same.
Why not replay all the President's speeches to the effect that the Iraq war didn't need to be fought?
Easy for Farragut to say. He was up in the mast.
BTW, does it really matter that he didn't say the "Cool slogan"?
When legend becomes fact, print the legend.
BTW, Admiral Perry actually said "We have encountered the opposing force, and have taken them into custody."
Apprecialte the tip on Evans - will have to do some further reading. He died commanding his second destroyer at 36. How many Millenials will still be living in Mom's basement at that age?
I am not sure why but this seemed the appropriate place to put this. Perhaps it is the contrast in attitude between a talker and the "doers":
Marine Corps Rules:
1. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
2. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
3. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun whose caliber does not start with a '4.'
4. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
5. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
6. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
7. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating your intention to shoot.
Not dealing wit ISIS is so unpopular that even Rand Paul and Elizabeth Warren are now coming out saying we need to do something.
If you're going to do something though, do enough to win. They still can't wrap,their minds around the fact that we may need to send in the troops. They want to fight a war on the cheap because they recognize that them doing nothing makes them look like amoral weaklings. But they don't want to be viewed as doing enough to be responsible for the consequences of their policy.
Michael K., point of order: it's the Royal Navy.
Drago wrote: I don't recall any reports of Spruance being credited with repeating JPJ's line but I might have missed it.
I can't find it either. Those words would have been very uncharacteristic of the laconic Spruance.
The Royal Navy
And they were so worried about mines that they failed to force the straits and Churchill wound up approving Gallipoli, which was a good idea to support Russia. Had they done so, the British would have knocked the Ottomans out of the war and kept the Russiands in, maybe.
Richard Dolan wrote: It's all about fooling the rubes, except that no one is being fooled.
Warren is speechifying in Massachusetts, remember? It's not like she has to deal with a politically savvy electorate like they have in West Virginia.
Expat(ish) wrote: I remember reading about Evan's taking his destroyer *right* into the Japanese fleet to give the CV's (got it right that time)...
Nope. Evan's ship, USS Johnston (DD-557), was attached to Task Unit 77.4.3 (aka Taffy III) a force of six escort carriers (CVE, a much smaller ship than a CV) three destroyers (including the Johnston) and 4 destroyer escorts. No CVs, BBs or CAs were anywhere near Taffy III when Kurita came out of the morning haze. They were all off with Halsey chasing Onishi's will-o-the-wisp.
The Johnston's furious attack, along with the other escorts, particularly the DE-413 USS Samuel B. Roberts, so discombobulated Kurita that he ordered a general retreat long before his force could come within range of their prime targets, the transports servicing MacArthur's invasion forces, thus squandering Yamato's one and only fight with enemy surface units. Some sources credit Yamato with sinking the CVE Gambier Bay. If so it was a case of an eagle taking on a sparrow and barely living to tell the tale. An ignominious fate for history's most powerful battleship.
Would Farragut have said "We can't get pulled into another war" and "We need to be working with others"?
I doubt it. Farragut once said to General Nathaniel Banks "We must fight this thing out till there is only one man left, and that man must be a Union man! Here's to his health."
Warren has these weird little stereotyped phrases she uses. During the last election, every time she said anything about economic policy, she repeated "The middle class is getting hammered." Over and over again. Every speech, sometimes multiple times during a speech or interview, the same memorized sentence.
The same with responding to questions about the lies she told about her ancestry, and the career benefits she obtained from those lies. This time, the sentence was "I'm not ashamed of my Native American ancestry, I've never denied it." This is of course inapropros as an answer to why she falsely claimed such ancestry - no one said she had denied it; in fact, the problem was that she had claimed it. It was as though she had memorized that sentence for use whenever her "woman of color" status might come up, and was incapable of modifying it when the situation changed and it was no longer responsive.
This sounds like another one. I'm guessing that whenever she is asked about foreign policy, she will blat "Full-speed ahead!" whether it's even remotely appropriate or not. She's memorized it, and out it will come.
Does she mean we should be working to destroy ISIS, with other countries as they come on board OR does she mean we should only be working to destroy ISIS with other countries?
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