I think this is nothing but a distraction, but it serves some interests. Care to exploit any?
September 24, 2014
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185 comments:
I do not know if any other Presidents have done a salute like that but it shows a lack of respect.
The rendering of a salute is to express respect and honor. The return salute should reflect the same. This is not that.
If you have any connection to the military, this is not minor.
Yawn.
I was just as peeved when I saw the photo of him with his feet on the Resolute desk. Don't like it when I see it done by any President. Lack of respect.
It is not normal for a Commander in Chief to salute anyone. The proper thing is to bow.
He is returning a salute. That makes it worse.
Can we impeach him now?
I'm amused that his handlers saw fit to post this on the White House Instagram - totally clueless.
I suppose this why my Facebook is suddenly full of that image of George W half saluting while holding a dog?
Of course, he wasn't the black president so there is selective amnesia going on.
The salute pales in comparison to what he has already done to the military. Stripped of many good men in the top command, pink slips to soldiers in the field and not to be missed the changes in rules of engagement. We've known all along he had no respect, at least this is a token of respect.
The corpsemen were not amused.
Look,
Strictly speaking, Civilians don't salute. CinC? Sure if they want to look martial.
However, once you decide to render salutes, you get measured on how you do it. By everybody who ever saluted, or has military family.
He was disrespectful. It was more important for him to button his coat and respect the men that were prepared to die protecting him.
disgusting.
@Madisonfella. Too late to impeach him. The damage has been done.
Just need to hamstring him from November through the end of his term. Then reverse some (or all) of his misdeeds.
This has nothing to do with the color of his skin Mark. George W Bush served honorably in the military, during a time of war, so he gets a free pass on saluting with the doggie in his arms. It was an accident, he was just trying to do too much at one time.
Obama despises the military, dodged the draft, and is a commie who was born in Kenya. This "coffee salute" is the latest example of his deep rooted hatred towards everything American.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sahill/2224082953/
Another political rorschach (sp?) test--if you're pro-Obama (probama?) you think big whoop, if you hate the guy you think this just shows he's a disrespectful douche.
Presidents returning the salute is a pretty new thing--I think Reagan started the tradition. If you're going to bother to salute, you may as well do it properly.
Of course, I'd gladly take a few half-assed return salutes if it meant the president was executing a wise, careful foreign policy. No such luck though.
As a citizen, this is small potatoes.
As a veteran, it's fucking disrespectful. Don't think those Marines don't hate his guts. They get to stand there for hours waiting on him, and when he strolls through, the CiC can't even ditch the coffee for two seconds?
Mark, doesn't it ever bother you how much you have to say "But Bush did it first!"
I thought Bush was supposed to be a bad precedent
If he had accidentally dumped the coffee on his head, now that would have been funny.
Classiest... President... EVAH!
tempest in a....
I've seen the photo of GWB holding the dog. Notice that he has freed his right hand to salute. (It is allowable to return a salute with something in your left hand.) While it would have been better to raise his hand all the way rather than lower his head it was a salute properly returned.
As a retired officer, the return salute is always somthing important to me, as it showed a mutual respect to a subordinate.
Outside of wishing the SOB got an earful of hot coffee, not really.
Coffee cup salute, no jacket in Oval, tan suit, marine-held umbrella, dad jeans, chipotle reach over. Who says conservatives are petty?
Small comfort but the Marines are honoring the office, not the man. Each man earns (or not) respect based on how he treats the office and others.
That said, there does not seems to be much that he does honor (besides his reflection).
As for those that say "this is only a big deal to those that already don't like him", BS. This has to do with the Office of the President and how the people that hold that office behave. What Clinton did was disgraceful. How this current office holder behaves is lazy and lacks respect for the office and what the office means. Each President is a temporarily holder of the material, the history, and the trappings of the Office of the President. Acting in unseemly ways disrespects that position. These lazy salutes are just one more example of how this President does not respect the office he holds.
Considering Obama's disdain for the USMC for killing so many of his peace loving Muslim brotherhood in the first and in the the second Battles of Fallujah, he actually does well when faking giving any honor to them. But Obama is comforted in knowing that he gave Fallujah right back to his Buds.
It was tea.
I've always thought presidential salutes were off, since they are civilians. What's the alternative, though? A head nod? Handshake? I honestly don't know.
Despicable. I don't expect a Parris Island "hooray" out of him, or a parade ground salute, but for heaven's sake, he could at least pretend. You know. For the "optics."
Does he own Starbucks stock?
Took a dive yesterday.
In the Grand Scheme of Things, a salute is a detail. And the President half-assed it.
I hope he doesn't similarly half-ass the war against the Terrorist Assholes of Iraq and the Levant (TAIL).
He hates the military. This is another lack of respect.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2767220/AWKWARD-Obama-creates-tempest-saluting-US-Marines-styrofoam-tea-cup-hand.html
Tea. Styrofoam cup. Climate speech.
If you have any connection to the military, this is not minor.
I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service. It's a minor thing. It's a dumb, unsurprising thing. General officers unknowingly disrespect their subordinates all the time. Why would you expect any more from him?
He will learn from this. Sloppy. Indicative.
Not a big deal unless he does it again.
This is a non-story. That is to say it's not particularly important.
Sure, it's another example in a long line of examples of our president's cavalier attitude and general lack of respect for this nations military service personnel. But ultimately it's a side story, a red herring, another SQUIRREL!! moment.
There's better things to hand wring about.
"Of course, he wasn't the black president so there is selective amnesia going on."
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and take this as a joke.
Since I don't see compulsory service making a comeback, perhaps we could require a block of study in school on military protocols. At least then the public at large could/would understand why something so seemingly silly to the uninformed could in fact be deeply offensive to those of us who took a pledge to protect and defend...to the death...the country that the current CiC holds in such disdain.
As Hagar pointed out..its not "minor" to those of us who have served.
As for the "Bush did it to"..bullshite. He was handling a living, squirming thing, and still managed to free his right hand and lower his head to salute the best he could under the circumstances.
President 3 putt couldn't even put his "tea" in his left hand.
I think there should be a proper salute, or none at all. We have plenty of newsreel footage of Nixon, LBJ etc simply walking past Marines without returning salute. It's a good bet that Lincoln and Teddy R didn't salute on a regular basis either. Not until St. Ronny did it become a thing, but honestly I'd rather it NOT be a thing. But if he does it, it should be done correctly.
The irony is that this would not have happened to Clinton. Pre-internet. It used to be that there would be some Army MSG from WHCA that would be there to take those candid photos. Now they have some 22 y/o from the WH Office of Digital Strategy. That person thought it was a great publicity shot.
Madisonfella @ 1:42: The draft was long over when Obama turned 18. You still had to register with the Selective Service (he did) but no lottery for draft numbers, no summonses to Whitehall Street, no more draftees.
The man is scum, but dodging the draft was not among his scummy actions.
"Coffee cup salute, no jacket in Oval, tan suit, marine-held umbrella, dad jeans, chipotle reach over. Who says conservatives are petty?"
Don't forget all the bowing to foreign heads of state and royalty.
The tan suit and dad jeans are not the same. They are trivial fashion things, but there seems to be a cumulative list of poor manners or not following protocol or acting unprofessionally.
Irritating to many, but only a few or the hard right would harp on it instead of pointing out his other deficiencies that effect the balance of world power.
It establishes a pattern of behavior, presumably motivated by Obama's orientation.
I have no problem with him putting his feet on the desk, wearing tan suits, wearing jeans, being casual in certain settings. He is the President, and he gets to set his own style while holding that office. Putting his feet on the desk he serves behind for 8 years is fine; it's not disrespectable (though I'd argue doing it as a photoshoot is foolish).
A salute though is a sign of acknowledgement and respect. You either don't do it, or you do it right. It is ingrained in the American culture and military - both - that a sloppy salute is a very poor reflection on the person performing it. Whether it be saluting while not looking at the person, a loose hand, or a half-arsed salute - none are ok. You either don't do it at all, or you do it right.
To put it another way: If the President is about to walk out on stage and ties his tie poorly, with the bottom well above the belt-line and a sloppy knot, it is a poor reflection on him. It is a cultural sign of lack of attention to detail and sloppiness in his person.
The salute is that plus an affront to accepted military and American culture.
Tan suits = All day long, personal style
Sloppy salutes = Bad for everyone
This is a sad metaphor for the cynical and distant relationship the President has displayed towards the military, from playing politics with the surge, to claiming to be really good at killing people, to his apparent inability to acknowledge the genuine sacrifice and sense of mission that the military brings to their deadly craft. He's a wartime president, but refuses to act the part.
I miss GWB.
Obama is so smart that the old changing names from War Department to Department of Defense is not as good a trick. He simply issued an Order outlawing War. So Obama needs all of us to call his Military action a war on War.
Any soldier would be confronted by a superior for a salute like that.
Bush's salute is proper by definition. In the military you sometimes need to salute AND hold something in your left hand... a rifle for example. To salute with an object in your right hand is viewed as an insult dishonoring the person you are saluting. The severity of the insult is based on the recipient's mood and position at the time. Try it with a DI at Pendleton and see how minor an offense it is.
Pretty vile to turn this into a race issue, Mark. Not unexpected from your likes.
is it the end of th world? no. Does it show him to be the worst president ever? no.
does it confirm my suspicions of his disdain, even contempt, for the military? resoundingly yes.
I'm surprised he didn't give 'em the "finger" scratch
"so he gets a free pass on saluting with the doggie in his arms."
Actually, if you are carrying something, the proper protocol is to shift it to your left hand so taht you can render the proper salute with your right. Perfectly acceptable to do so. But civilians don't know that. Progressive civilians absolutely don't know it, and even when it's explained to them, they still drone on about GWB holding a dog in his left arm while saluting with his right.
If it was any other President, I'd have been shocked. This one? Nothing's shocking any more.
"He will learn from this. Sloppy. Indicative."
Name an experience Obama has learned from.
Only the least of his treason.
Darrell said...
It was tea.
Semper Chai?
The photo on Bush was a gotcha, taken as he was in the process of shifting the dog to his left hand.
If you see the photo immediately following, he is rendering a proper hand salute with decent posture.
Except for buttoning his jacket, looks like Obama's left hand was free to hold the cup.
Unlike Bush, who had both arms occupied with the dog.
I think this is nothing but a distraction...
it's emblematic of the president and his presidency is what it is.
It's a secret signal to his progressive bat-shit crazy base that although he is currently bombing ISIS, he still holds the military in utter contempt.
Or, he's just can't be bothered.
Mark said...
I suppose this why my Facebook is suddenly full of that image of George W half saluting while holding a dog?
Of course, he wasn't the black president so there is selective amnesia going on.
Please note, in that picture of Bush, that his right hand is free and saluting as best he can while holding his dog. Not a cup of coffee. If both hands are full, a salute is not required, per protocol. If only ONE had is occupied, say -carrying a cup of coffee - the coffee should be transferred to the left hand, leaving the right free to salute. To honor.
Bush, as a former pilot, was well aware of the "rules" regarding saluting, and his respect for the military is not, and never has been, never under question.
To add to my comment, the leash was around his right wrist too.
"Semper Chai?"
<spittake/>
Obama's "salute" is disrespectful. Period. What would be his take if one of the Marines did the same?
It's not the end of the world, but it is indicative of his lack of awareness for those who he now hopes will pull his ME fat out of the fire.
Next time he gets off the plane the military there to greet him should be dressed in civies with cigs dangling from their mouth, five oclck shadow beards and reaking of alcohol. And they can give him a thumbs up instead of a salute. Or a "what up, G?"
He doesn't give a sh*t about protocol why should they?
"He doesn't give a sh*t about protocol why should they?"
They're held to a different standard, of course. Though he's CinC, he's a civilian--and I understand presidents didn't even return salutes until Reagan started the practice (a fine practice--it demonstrates respect for the troops serving you and your country). But while a civilian can get away with a breach of protocol like that, the Marines are pros, and they serve the office, not the man in it.
I'm sure this isn't the first time any president has done something like this (whether the Bush with the dog comparison is apt or not, I'll bet at least some of the thousands of opportunities presidents since Reagan have had to salute back, some have done so just as piss-poorly as Obama did). Presidents still should show more respect while being served, just like a good boss will be with any other subordinate.
It's not a huge deal, a minor tempest in a teapot compared to driving the country's foreign policy into a ditch, but he should have held his coffee long enough to do a decent salute.
"I think this is nothing but a distraction"
Spoken by someone not in the military (I'm not either, but I do recognize the military's adherence to properly acknowledging people and following orders and protocols)
That's the problem with the left and Obama. THe military is foreign to them. They don't grok it and thus can't be bothered to respect the institution. Obama thinks it's a non issue.
Someone else mentioend Obama's bowing tour where he went overseas trying to make nice and some said was too subservient. Bowing TOO low. I didn't personally fault him for bowing if that's wha he's supposed to do, but Obama would NEVER be casual with them the way he would with the military. Remember who you are man, you're the president.
Brando wrote:
t's not a huge deal, a minor tempest in a teapot compared to driving the country's foreign policy into a ditch, but he should have held his coffee long enough to do a decent salute.
I'll agree, in the list of obam's crimes and misdemeanors it's low on the list. No reason we still can't slam him for it though.
This seems to be my day for cutting Obama some slack, but I think the fact that he's left-handed played into the cup-in-hand salute. He needs to button his jacket with his left hand -- I'm right-handed and would have a heck of a time doing up buttons with my left hand -- and so he's holding the cup in his right hand. I don't think he meant disrespect; it was just bad timing -- if not for the button thing, he'd probably have transferred the cup to his left hand.
There's no pics of him making a putt with a coffee cup in one hand.
Obama is our 1st Douchebag President.
Lydia wrote:
This seems to be my day for cutting Obama some slack, but I think the fact that he's left-handed played into the cup-in-hand salute. He needs to button his jacket with his left hand -- I'm right-handed and would have a heck of a time doing up buttons with my left hand -- and so he's holding the cup in his right hand. I don't think he meant disrespect; it was just bad timing -- if not for the button thing, he'd probably have transferred the cup to his left hand.
What the military should is is station two soldiers by the plane with coffee cups in hand. When he gets off the plane they give him the same salute he gave them, with the coffee cup in hand.
Nothing major. Just a gentle reminder of the faux pas commited. A silent reprimand that puts him in his place. He might even take it in stride, or say to himself "Next time, don't salute with coffee cop in hand. Stupid!"
David53 said...
If you have any connection to the military, this is not minor.
I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service. It's a minor thing. It's a dumb, unsurprising thing. General officers unknowingly disrespect their subordinates all the time. Why would you expect any more from him?
==================
Agree. That it happens all the time. There are times when military business is being conducted and salutes are dispensed with because they get in the way of the task at hand. It can be a Colonel asst. to the General walking by you with a Congressman and 3 congressional aides on a Saudi base and too focused on schmoozing up the mighty elected official and staffers to respond to your less important ceremonial gesture. And it can go the other way...nodding to the Saudi Lieutenant Colonel because you are walking past him using both hands for carrying 35 kilos and 280,000 dollars worth of secret CCC gear in a box.
And listening respectfully to the Saudi officer reminding you that in HIS AF, carrying things is for subordinates. Even Filipino or Bangladeshi housekeeping staff on base.
And the Saudi laughing when I said I left the airwoman on the tarmac that had to be 130 Degrees filling paperwork out for 15 minutes while I only had 3 minutes of carrying things - a better deal. And since I was going to my office, would he like some iced Gatoraide?? (Saudis loved Gatoraide and Mt Dew).
"Mark said...
...Of course, he wasn't the black president so there is selective amnesia going on."
Just another example of what a simpleton you are.
"dodged the draft, and is a commie who was born in Kenya"
I don't know if this is supposed to be sarcasm. There was no draft when Obama came of age and, while he is clearly a "red diaper baby" he was born in Hawaii.
His base, as shown by garage, loves this stuff. Show those baby killers how we feel !
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.
The occasion is informal unless there are styrofoam greek columns.
Give Obama a break. He doesn't know how to salute, well, big deal. He also throws a baseball like a girl and weight trains with 10 lb weights. Some guys just don't know how to do stuff.
"jr565 said...
Next time he gets off the plane the military there to greet him should be dressed in civies with cigs dangling from their mouth, five oclck shadow beards and reaking of alcohol. And they can give him a thumbs up instead of a salute. Or a "what up, G?"
He doesn't give a sh*t about protocol why should they?
"
NEVER.
No matter how much I disagree with the man, or how little regard he has for my profession.
Lydia wrote:
This seems to be my day for cutting Obama some slack, but I think the fact that he's left-handed played into the cup-in-hand salute. He needs to button his jacket with his left hand -- I'm right-handed and would have a heck of a time doing up buttons with my left hand -- and so he's holding the cup in his right hand. I don't think he meant disrespect; it was just bad timing -- if not for the button thing, he'd probably have transferred the cup to his left hand."
Eh, this is so minor, I'm inclined to cut him slack my self, if only because I already know he holds the military in contempt, so it's not shocking in any way. However, he couldn't be troubled to button his coat before exiting the aircraft? Those Marines didn't jump out of the bushes at the last minute, nor is it the first time they've been at the bottom of those stairs.
jr565 said...
Next time he gets off the plane the military there to greet him should be dressed in civies with cigs dangling from their mouth, five oclck shadow beards and reaking of alcohol. And they can give him a thumbs up instead of a salute. Or a "what up, G?"
He doesn't give a sh*t about protocol why should they?
9/24/14, 3:05 PM
I believe that roll is already filled by the current Secret Service...
Madisonfella, I'll bow to no man in my contempt for Obama.
But you can't call him a draft dodger. (He woulda if he coulda but he didn't).
Obama was born in 1961--turned 18 in 1979. By that time the draft was gone--we had an all volunteer military. You still had to register (has anybody seen Obama's draft registration card, or did he burn it), but you were not going to be drafted. That had ended and was over.
So you can call him a lying, pontificating scum sucking dog--or whatever other accurate descriptors you might choose to call him--but you can't call Obama a draft dodger.
OTOH, we can discuss Bill Clinton in that regard.
Par for the course.
Todd@1:55pm/
THIS^^^!!!
All things considered it would be best if the military gave up the task of ferrying around the pres and give it over to civilian employees. It's a plane ride from point a to point b, not a royal fuckin' procession. Give the pres a military pilot if it's cheaper and have the GSA or somebody hire coat holders and door openers. It's a demeaning task to send a man or woman through basic training in order to perform as a glorified air hostess.
Actually madisonfella @ 1:42 gets this one right.
Given the different histories and characters of the two individuals. This is either stupid optics feeding his very unmilitary background. Or it is the equivalent of his scratching his eyebrow with his middle finger at a strategic moment. Or both.
RecChief said--Semper Chai?
Perfect!
Brando's right, before Reagan no POTUS routinely returned military salutes, although of course they all, going back to Washington, have been saluted as commander-in-chief.
I won't hold Obama to the same standard as I did John Kerry. Kerry's salute — upon "reporting for duty!" when he appeared onstage to accept the Democratic Party's 2004 presidential nomination — was so non-regulation as to be insulting, at least in the eyes of his ex-military critics like the SwiftVets. He ought to have known better.
Obama never served. I don't expect his salutes to be regulation, or even close to regulation. I could easily forgive him for getting slightly wrong whatever attempts he makes — so long as he appeared to be genuinely respectful and appeared to be trying to show that through his returned salute.
But whatever his private feelings, Obama's half-assed returns of our military's inevitably crisp salutes doesn't convey any respect at all. Instead, they convey only an annoyed knowledge that it's something he's supposed to do for PR purposes, but which he appears finds to be an imposition.
And repeatedly presenting that appearance actually is insulting.
So IMHO Obama should just quit saluting, and quit pretending he actually has any but the most vague and distracted respect for the individuals who are saluting him.
But that's like telling water to stop being wet. Obama lies as reflexively and frequently as he breathes, and he's the still hero of his own epic interior movie, despite (or perhaps especially because of) his declining box-office appeal.
Don't care. Served seven years. Still don't care.
Reagan started the custom. Before that Presidents didn't salute.
All the false outrage is over something that isn't even appropriate. Obama isn't in uniform and carries no military rank. He's not even wearing a hat. It's just a custom one President started and another can end.
Since its a recent tradition, He has three choices; 1. Do it properly, 2. Don't do it or 3. Don't do it and explain why. Doing it incorrectly is a lack of respect.
But what about his gaaaaaaaaffes?
I agree the act itself in context isn't a big deal, but the funny part is that it was apparently documented and broadcast by soneone foolish enough to think this looked good.
I haven't tried to source this, but:
"I never ceased to enjoy reviewing our men and women in uniform and hope I started a new tradition for presidents. As commander in chief, I discovered it was customary for our uniformed men and women to salute whenever they saw me. When I’d walk down the steps of a helicopter, for example, there was always a Marine waiting there to salute me. I was told presidents weren’t supposed to return salutes, so I didn’t, but this made me feel a little uncomfortable. Normally, a person offering a salute waits until it is returned, then brings down his hand. Sometimes, I realized, the soldier, sailor, marine, or airman giving me a salute wasn’t sure when he was supposed to lower his hand. Initially, I nodded and smiled and said hello and thought maybe that would bring down the hand, but usually it didn’t. Finally, one night when Nancy and I were attending a concert at the Marine Corps headquarters, I told the Commandant of Marines, “I know it’s customary for the president to receive these salutes, but I was once an officer and realize that you’re not supposed to salute when you’re in civilian clothes. I think there ought to be a regulation that the president could return a salute inasmuch as he is commander in chief and civilian clothes are his uniform.” “Well, if you did return a salute,” the general said, “I don’t think anyone would say anything to you about it.”
The next time I got a salute, I saluted back. A big grin came over the Marine’s face and down came his hand. From then on, I always returned salutes. When George Bush followed me into the White House, I encouraged him to keep up the tradition." -- R. Reagan
The Whitehouse posted the video, and that is what bothers me. I could excuse the poor judgment he showed in making that salute, but the posting on social media means that the Whitehouse thought it was cute or cool and that it didn't have a clue about the disrespect it showed to the military (at least I hope that is the case--it would be an outrage if publicly disrespecting the military was intentional). As SteveR said, either do it properly or don't do it at all.
I have not "snopesed" this but...
One of the many reasons for a hand salute of a junior to a senior - especially a junior under arms - is to give the senior a split second extra time if the junior goes for his weapon....
I don't mind the salute, but I do mind the White House sharing video of it. That seems disrespectful.
He's a civilian, it isn't a big deal.
looks like socialism to me!
while he is clearly a "red diaper baby" he was born in Hawaii.
Leftys keep repeating that lie, hoping to make it true. If he really was born in Hawaii then where is the birth certificate?
And maybe Obama didn't technically dodge the draft but he still could have served in the military. He decided to duck out on that responsibility, which makes him a scumbag and possibly a traitor.
Its just another example of his disrespect for our country and those who risk their lives protecting us.
Althouse's fellow boomer elites never had any respect for our troops, anti-Vietnam war elites.
Our presidents are treated too much like royalty. I don't approve of the honor guard. Have someone from the TSA give them all the blue glove treatment.
Obama despises the military, dodged the draft,
Bullshit. Obama was too young to be drafted. (He should have registered for the draft when draft registration was reinstated).
He never registered for SS as required. The DNC back-posted his registration after he became a potential candidate with his DNC keynote speech. Some ex-government worker did a good job exposing and documenting this before the first election. The form number did not match the date he would have registered and the electronic record was altered and there were digital artifacts of the alteration. All of this was overlooked because of the birth certificate discussions. I didn't look to see if Google "disappeared" the links to the website that laid out the case. But the guy behind it had testified in a number of fraud cases as an expert witness for the government.
Go away.
Go to Palm Springs.
Go be a "celebrity".
Start some really "important" foundation to launder money.
Go get super rich like the Clintons.
Go build a "library."
Go away!
What about you, Madisonfella?
Did you serve?
Or did you "duck out"?
John Henry
(Former USN)
David53 said...
I retired from the Air Force after 20 years of service. It's a minor thing. It's a dumb, unsurprising thing. General officers unknowingly disrespect their subordinates all the time. Why would you expect any more from him?
Ah, the Air Force, or as some of us used to call it "The alternative to military service"
Just kidding David but my limited contact with the AF over the years has shown me that they appear to be much more casual with military courtesies than the Army, Navy and Marines.
I have heard that this is because the AF has not been around as long and doesn't have as much history. I've also heard that the more technical nature of the AF is such that military courtesy and discipline are not seen as being as important in the other services.
Just an impression.
When I think of the AF I think of this exchange from Evylyn Waugh's novel Sword of Honor:
One officer to another after being treated with surly disrespect by a hospital orderly: "Do you think we ought to put that man on report for insubordination to an officer?"
Second officer: "I understand it is not an offense in the Air Force."
RAF in this case, not USAF.
John Henry
I think it is a big deal but I think it was done on purpose.
I think this is the tan suit of 2 weeks ago. They saw that worked well but needed something different.
How many minutes of air time, how many column inches of print, how many blog posts are not talking about Obama's war in the Middle East?
This is a huge distraction and I think it was intended as such.
I go between thinking that Obama is dumb as a rock and operating at a whole 'nother level of intelligence from us mere mortals.
This was a brilliant move if he wanted to distract attention.
I never know whether he does these things out of dumbth or intelligence.
Just as I never know whether he is promoting the liberal (as in libertarian, classical) groundswell by accident or on purpose. I am fine with it either way.
John Henry
Blogger Bob R said...
Our presidents are treated too much like royalty. I don't approve of the honor guard. Have someone from the TSA give them all the blue glove treatment.
Ann is usually pretty good about this but it looks like I need to do her job for her today.
Did you see the picture that topped Drudge earlier?
http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/iwkt8p9t1dh5jEXVenP2Rg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9Njk7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2014-09-24T150923Z_1085336083_TB3EA9O16C9H9_RTRMADP_3_UN-ASSEMBLY.JPG
(Now that's a link!)
Obie is sitting at, I think the UN and there is a blue unifored rentacop behind him.
The cop has what look like rubber gloves on. Perhaps he is worried about getting cooties from Obie.
On close examination they might be cotton but they look like rubber. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
John Henry
John Henry I was in the infantry during Viet Nam, although my "combat boots" were never on the ground there.
That said, I am so damned tired of people asking "did you serve".
It's frequently followed by some arrogant young liberal progressive shmuck who never faced the possibility of military service throwing the epithet "chicken hawk" at those who "did not serve".
Service in a large military is a funny thing. Two fraternity brothers of mine flew F-4s in combat in Viet Nam; another fraternity brother was a 1st Lieutenant in the 1st Air Cav. A He lasted 21 days in country in December, 1968 , won 3 Air Medals, a Bronze and a Silver Star--and came home in a box. He was his parents only son and his body was too messed up for them to look at. Three 51 caliber slugs in the chest and face will do that for you. You can find Lieutenant Rathman's name on the Wall. Yet other fraternity brothers were Air Force officers who spent their careers in underground control rooms in missile silos in the Upper Midwest. All of them "served" during Viet Nam; not all of us who served were shot at. As for service in the Navy--I can't begin to count the number of submarine and surface warfare officers (not to mention pilots and helo drivers)I've known and worked with over the years who served in Viet Nam--and who came back with fewer scratches on their posterior than John Kerry got when he threw a concussion grenade in a rice basket. Of course they also didn't write themselves up for a Silver Star--but that's another matter.
Leave that "did you serve" stuff alone. It cheapens things.
Is this a big deal?
Not really.
Does it confirm Obama's narcissism and detachment ?
Yes Garbage. In that sense, it is not petty. BTW, I liked his tan suit, used to have one just like it.
It's frequently followed by some arrogant young liberal progressive shmuck who never faced the possibility of military service throwing the epithet "chicken hawk" at those who "did not serve".
Isn't that what Madisonfella did? He claimed that by not serving Obie somehow "ducked out" of a responsibility. Do we have a "responsibility" to serve in the military? It is a fine thing and I highly recommend it but I do not think any less of anyone for not having served. Unless they dodged the draft, of course.
Madisonfella was acting exactly like the chickenhawk you rightly criticize. If he did serve, I think his comment is still off base but I would give him a pass.
If he did not serve, I think he deserves a heaping helping of scorn and mockery for his comment.
John Henry
What I don't understand is why Democrats are responding to President Obamas disrespectful salute with pictures of President Bush showing the right way to do it.
Obama is a tea bagger er I mean tea drinker huh. That doesn't surprise me.
He's not chewing gum while walking, I notice.
The funny thing about the outrage here is that the actual violation of etiquette wasn't saluting with a coffee cup in hand. It was that he saluted at all. He's a civilian; civilians aren't supposed to salute the military.
Former Marine here. It's profoundly disrespectful to the Marines who are saluting him. A salute is not just another way to say, "Hi, there," which is what Obama seems to treat it as.
eric said...
What I don't understand is why Democrats are responding to President Obamas disrespectful salute with pictures of President Bush showing the right way to do it.
You mean like this? Looks pretty good to me.
http://archive.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/070330/honor.jpg
John Henry
Of Bush, Annie wrote:
"and his respect for the military is not, and never has been, never under question."
Jeez, the insularity is strong with that one.
Still, who cares that he saulted while holding a dog? Who cares about Obama saluting while holding a cup?
It's silly for the President to salute at all. The sooner they stop that martial posturing, the better. It's not North Korea after all.
Eric,
So why should Marines salute him? After all, he is a civilian?
Hmmmm..?
Technically, they are not saluting him but the office of the commander in chief.
However, since they are saluting what do you think he should do? Just grin and say "Hey guys, how ya doin'?" Or some such.
Waiting for your suggestions, I am
John Henry
I think this is nothing but a distraction, but it serves some interests. Care to exploit any?
I think that this episode serves as a sort of litmus test. If you believe that the men and women in our armed forces deserve our respect then you are appalled to see that Obama can't even be bothered to transfer the cup to his empty left hand.
If you don't think that the men and women in our armed forces deserve respect then you don't see what the big whoop is all about.
Of course there are people who are appalled at anything Obama does because he did it, just as there are many people who think that anything Obama does is wonderful because Obama is the great light worker. But I suspect that folks who think everything Obama does is wrong are also a proper subset of the people who believe that the men and women who have volunteered to join our military deserve our respect, and I am pretty certain that the people who believe Obama is the light worker are also a proper subset of the people who don't much respect our military.
@John Henry, don't you think by now Barack Obama has seen his Marine guards saluting often enough to have worked it all out? Your excuse for his behavior was valid only for the first few days after his inauguration in January 2009.
It does seem strange that obama would salute the Marine honor guard in this way considering that he, Obama, personally killed osama and thus understands what the military members have experienced.
If you don't believe that, just ask ARM, he'll tell you.
This is beyond trivial. Can't think of any purpose in raising this issue.
Maybe the Obama PR people thought by sharing the photo they would set off some political detractors and make them sound crazy.
Big Mike said...
@John Henry, don't you think by now Barack Obama has seen his Marine guards saluting often enough to have worked it all out? Your excuse for his behavior was valid only for the first few days after his inauguration in January 2009
The lefties sure change their tune over time.
Remember this one?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/01/21/687156/-Obama-needs-to-learn-how-to-salute-properly#
Good times, good times.
Didn't somebody mention obama and expiration dates?
Look, I'm just glad we didn't elect Romney or we might have ended up bombing militants in Syria!!!
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/388656/biden-2012-romney-wants-go-war-syria-ian-tuttle
Good times, good times again...
It's not just a distraction. It is revelatory of seriousness and character, or lack of them. Obama is simply not a serious man.
Big Mike,
I think you have me confused with someone else. I am appalled at Obie saluting with the cup in his hand. I certainly do not excuse his discourteous behavior.
I agree that by the first days in office these many years ago he should have figured out this saluting thing. Whether to do it or not in the first place.
And, if he is going to go it, perhaps 5-10 minutes instruction and practice in how to return a salute.
I think we agree here. If I understand you correctly.
OTOH, I did say that he may have done it on purpose to create a distraction from his war. It has been very successful at that.
John Henry
The reason it matters is because the White House itself posted this video. Yes, they are that stupid..They had to have known it was unprofessional and yet they chose to call attention to it..
Like a stick in the eye, you cannot escape this fetid President. "Not into political theatre" my eye.. It's the only thing his Administration is into
@John Henry, I apologize for not recognizing sarcasm when I read it.
"Not into the optics of the office", he says.
Styrofoam pillars on stage for his acceptance speech, Brandenburg Gate "citizen of the world" speech, President-elect seal invented before he took office.
Nah, "optics" mean everything to him - when it's about HIM.
When it's about respect for the military, OTOH, he can't ditch the coffee cup for 10 secs and do a proper salute - SIX years into office, when he's just declared war without Congressional approval.
What a putz.
harrogate posits: Who cares about Obama saluting while holding a cup?
Who can forget him cupping his nut sac during the Pledge -- before he was even elected? link The signs were everywhere back then that this man has no use for protocol.
He shows a pattern of disregard and disrespect for the military.
ARM: "Drago the balless."
To this day, ARM still refuses to credit anyone other than obama with "killing osama".
Astonishing the lengths he will go to ignore the contributions of those who truly put their lives on the line to get osama.
In ARM's world though, nope, it's all obama baby.
AReasonableMan said...
Drago, the balless, if he's typing he's lying.
The evidence you present in support of your assertions is precisely what one would expect.
Well played.
We can only assume the terrier salute is receiving a nostalgic look back over at Meade's puparazzo blog...
Again ARM, all that is being asked of you is to acknowledge that obama is not the only individual for whom credit for "killing osama" should be given.
You will go to ends of the earth to avoid acknowledging that. Which, of course, led to your hilarious and epic meltdown just a few short nights ago.
I wonder if you've reconsidered in the meanwhile?
I suspect not.
In the ARM universe, obama is a killer who is only restrained by those non-hacking military types.
It also appears as though significant alcohol or other "substance" consumption issue is again at play with ARM this evening.
We can only pray he is not driving.
ARM, your comments would carry much more weight if you would simply repeat them ad nauseam in each and every posting.
I wish you well in your continued endeavors to shield the Light Bringer from any shared credit in the killing of bin laden.
Your dedication and loyalty to obama on this point is notable.
Is it just me or has the quality of ARM's postings begun to approach that of the greatest Greek philosophers?
Men whom Crack would refer to as "those white f**** who were racist 3000 years ago!!! Turtles!!!"
Keep going ARM! You are rocking it!
I wouldn't change a thing and don't worry. Tomorrow there won't be anything for you to be embarrassed about.
At all.
It's "foot soldiers" like you that give obama the courage to execute, single-handedly, Americas enemies.
ARM: "Teddy Kennedy could have been his father but his mother didn't have change for a dollar."
That's no way to talk about your leftist hero and man-God "Liberal Lion of the Senate"!
Anti-Catholic Bigot!
BTW, even Teddy served for 2 years in the Army so he knew how to salute. But then again, as Crack would say, "salutin' is racist!!!"
The value of every dollar spent on ARM's "education" is self-evident.
Probably thanks to obama, the god-king.
Ah, I see that ARM has seen some sort of light and is busy as a li'l bee deleting the evidence of his jackassery.
Will wonders never cease?
Perhaps there is hope for us all.
However, since they are saluting what do you think he should do? Just grin and say "Hey guys, how ya doin'?" Or some such.
He can do whatever he wants. He's a civilian.
All the "Obama was disrespectful" tripe misses an obvious fact: the Marines weren't saluting out of respect. They were saluting because the laws they live under *say* that the President and Secretary of Defense, as superiors in the chain of command, are to be saluted.
The military can set whatever rules it pleases for when soldiers have to salute one another. But those rules mean nothing to civilians.
The military can set whatever rules it pleases for when soldiers have to salute one another. But those rules mean nothing to civilians.
There are precious few rules governing civilian interactions and of course no one is obliged to live by them. But we are judged by how we behave and Obama disrespects the US military, and American traditions in general. There is ample evidence for this and we even know where it came from.
People who respect service members are mildly offended. Those who feel disdain towards soldiers and more generally, law enforcement, think it's no biggie. Nothing we say here will change this. It's part of the polarized society we are free to enjoy. :)
The Obama Doctrine is put succinctly by Revenant:
"He can do whatever he wants. He's a civilian."
If he wants to show disrespect to the military, he can do that. If it's too much trouble, when giving a salute, to switch his latte to his other hand, hey, he's our King Putt, he can do whatever he wants, he's a civilian.
And by gally, he will do whatever he wants.
A fine summation of King Putt's presidency.
Revenant said...
"However, since they are saluting what do you think he should do? Just grin and say "Hey guys, how ya doin'?" Or some such.
He can do whatever he wants. He's a civilian.
All the "Obama was disrespectful" tripe misses an obvious fact: the Marines weren't saluting out of respect. They were saluting because the laws they live under *say* that the President and Secretary of Defense, as superiors in the chain of command, are to be saluted.
The military can set whatever rules it pleases for when soldiers have to salute one another. But those rules mean nothing to civilians."
Obviously he doesn't have to do anything. Nobody has to respect us or what we do. But if you want to disrespect us as is your right as a free citizen then I will exercise the same right to call you a douche bag. I will also follow it up with a request that you move to another country and gtfo. There are many countries that we protect where you can go. Or better yet go to one of the countries we don't protect. I am sure you would last at least a day or two in Afghanistan. And take Obama with you.
And just to erase doubt, though the fact veteran support for Romney in every poll was mid 80's, Obama is universally despised in the army. Particularly the special operations community.
This is just another example of Obama being an asshole without any sense of propriety, respect for the office of the president, or respect for the soldiers who serve under him as commander in chief. And it's another example of the clueless douchebags of the progressive democrat party who make up Obama's sophomoric administration doing stupid shit. This photo, and Obama's dick move salute, is being ridiculed in the English, French and German press as well. Smrat Power!
Obama does not 'get' America. He bristles at American military superiority, he rues American exceptionalism.
Believe Obama when he says his goal is to fundamentally change America. Look up the word fundamental.
Remember what shaped this man. Hawaii and Indonesia. Decidedly Un-American
roots.
Yes he was born in Hawaii, to an American mother, but his upbringing looks nothing like an American upbringing.
His world view is to make America into a world state. What he wants in America to become like Belgium. Today we have the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, is charged with a primary purpose of Muslim outreach and Russia and private enterprise are used to launch American Astronauts and equipment into space, and India is the 1st to place a satellite over Mars. This is not happenstance, it is Obama's design. This is Obama's and leftist vision for America.
Democrats have been working since FDR to push America to European style socialism. The fact that they are striving for a failed system is always answered with, 'But we can do it better'
This salute kurfuffle is a sympton of leftist attitudes. This is who they are.
Why do conservatives refuse to listen to what leftist tell the world they want?
We all know how hapless he is when he hasn't got ValJar or his teleprompter nearby. No one ever told him what to do when he was holding coffee in his "saluting hand." Sort of like no one ever told him how to carry an umbrella through a doorway.
He wasn't raised right, and it shows in many, many different ways.
wow! so third world ish..
Obama is a third world guy. Respect is a concept not very well understood in third world countries. In this scenario, it is the respect for the two guys standing there saluting him.. acknowledging them with proper respect is what the situation calls for, nothing else. If he does not want to take it seriously, let them not be there -- he has a pen and a phone.
Revenant said...
He can do whatever he wants. He's a civilian.
Of course. As a civilian he does not have to return a salute and I said so upstream.
That is hardly the point.
IF he is going to return a salute, he should do it right, though. First, for those who know or care nothing military protocols, just to avoid looking like a douchebag.
But, more importantly, as a token of respect.
John Henry
All the "Obama was disrespectful" tripe misses an obvious fact: the Marines weren't saluting out of respect. They were saluting because the laws they live under *say* that the President and Secretary of Defense, as superiors in the chain of command, are to be saluted.
The military can set whatever rules it pleases for when soldiers have to salute one another. But those rules mean nothing to civilians.
He is their commander-in-chief, not just another civilian.
And protocol is that you RETURN salutes rendered.
Not that it matters. I think its a wonderful idea that the military show POTUS the same disrespect he shows them. How about if they gave him the finger instead?
Drago you are a witless dumbass and pathetically defenseless, but I am wrong for forgetting George Bernard Shaw's quip, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."
And protocol is that you RETURN salutes rendered.
President Reagan started it all - were all his predecessors (including President Dwight D. Eisenhower) wrong not to return salutes in their capacity as the (civilian) commander-in-chief?
Distraction - yes
Disrespectful - yes
Cup full of coffee after helicopter ride - ?
"Drago you are a witless dumbass and pathetically defenseless" - ARM
Coming from you, ARM, I am sure that really smarts.
Does he have to salute zombies? I mean corpse men? That is my question.
Obama is very symmetrical and has a lovely deep voice, so right there he is qualified to be CnC, just ask Althouse.
All this for a damn Marine?
AReasonableMan said...
Drago you are a witless dumbass and pathetically defenseless, but I am wrong for forgetting George Bernard Shaw's quip, "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
LOL
After your last couple of performances you are now going to quote GBS and pretend you are above it all when it was you in the mud?
Now that, my friends, is chutzpah!!!
You just spent some time last night attempting to erase your stupidity.
Unfortunately for you, it was on display for all to see and you can't very well take it all back now...as I see you desperately want to do.
LOL
Oh goodie:
We're back to the days of attacking blacks based on whether or not we got flag pins.
Serious business,...
White supremacist's memories are so compartmentalized,…”
Crack is still clearly upset is black african pals have not sent him any of their newly enslaved underaged girls.
You'd think they'd realize what a valuable service crack provides.
But they don't.
Always unrewarded is our crack.
Crack: "We're back to the days of attacking blacks based on whether or not we got flag pins."
flag pins =/ saluting marine honor guards properly when attempting a salute.
I'd recommend a remedial course in basic logic to you but then, taking courses would be "actin' white" and we know you won't have any of that!
So if this is no big deal, does this mean the liberals will finally STFU about "micro-aggressions?"
Drago said...
you can't very well take it all back now...as I see you desperately want to do.
Not at all. I feel bad for you. You seem to have no resources with which to respond other than saying the same things over and over.
You lack the courage to step out of the republican bubble on any issue. A cipher.
The POTUS returning solutes has always seemed a little pretentious to me. If I understand, this was started by President Reagan, though am willing to be corrected.
I say get rid of it and that damned nonsense about pardoning a turkey.
Really, how much trouble would it have taken to shift the cup to his left hand? It takes about one day to teach a cadet that little tidbit of common sense.
I was in the Air Force for 24 years. Everyone in the military knew which presidents respected us and which ones didn't. This is just one tell.
If I was a democrat I would have said "Hey, he's involved in a new war plus the normal stuff and he was just distracted and didnt even notice what he did."
Instead the democrat kneejerk reaction was "LOOK BUSH" not knowing that HIS salute, while goofy holding the dog, was perfectly fine. But I'm not a democrat.
---I've seen the photo of GWB holding the dog. Notice that he has freed his right hand to salute. (It is allowable to return a salute with something in your left hand.) While it would have been better to raise his hand all the way rather than lower his head it was a salute properly returned.
As a retired officer, the return salute is always somthing important to me, as it showed a mutual respect to a subordinate.----
Factually accurate and well said.
ARM: " You seem to have no resources with which to respond other than saying the same things over and over."
Such a strange "projection psychosis" you have ARM.
Pathological.
What really causes you to write "coward" or your other catch phrases over and over and over and over?
And everyone saw it, long before you knew you'd better delete it.
And you think they didn't?
Sad. Ever so sad.
AReasonableMan said:
"You lack the courage to step out of the republican bubble on any issue. A cipher."
Says the guy who gives Obama credit for killing bin Laden. And since ARM voted for Obama he had more to do with killing bin Laden than the armed forces. But Iraq falling apart is totally bush's fault. You aren't a cipher at all.
" You seem to have no resources with which to respond other than saying the same things over and over" - ARM
"Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward
Coward..." - ARM
You have really become incoherent.
I just yesterday, at Rosh Hashanna dinner was talking to a 95 year old vet of WWII, Fred. He was telling me about how he was an anti aircraft gunner in Africa and Italy and there was Obama, side by side with them, leading them to victory against the Nazis... Well no, Obama wasn't there anymore than he was there on Seal Team Six, and Fred wouldn't have suggested it.
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