"... but insisted it was over a bad joke — and not cruel hazing."
“Under the broad definition of hazing, yes I was involved with some of those activities while I was at Hofstra... At the time, unfortunately, that was just the culture of the university.... And I was kind of brought up through the organization thinking that was appropriate behavior when clearly … today I understand that’s just not true... In the e-mail I basically made a joke... And that [joke] was taken out of context and forwarded to the national office.”
And
here's the Jezebel article that brought this incident to light. Excerpt:
A recent graduate who attended Hofstra at the same time as Kazantsev told Jezebel that the final two steps of pledging in one (unnamed) sorority involved making all of the pledges remove their underwear and sit on newspapers while the older members forced them to watch lesbian porn. Anyone whose newspaper stuck to them at the end of the video, the former student said, was branded a dyke, ridiculed, and tossed out. The remaining girls were then forced to perform oral sex on their sorority "big sisters." Other Greeks required pledges to sit in circles around bowls of cat food and other various inedibles. They'd take turns eating and as soon as someone threw up, they had to eat the puke. Another sorority would wrap completely naked pledges in tinfoil, take them to bars, and instruct them to dance until last call. Patrons would pull pieces of foil off, and pledges were considered sexually up for grabs.
These, of course, are extreme examples, and not necessarily attributed to Kazantsev's sorority....
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45 comments:
Damn the Patriarchy and how it mistreats women...
(I'm wondering if those reported actions are thing that actually happened or someone's story points for their "Heathers" slashfic.)
Once again, I will point out there is always a pervert at the base of these things.
How the pervert gets others to go along with it is the frightening thing.
Question is whether any of these charges appearing in the press will stick to her.
Only 20 minutes from where Debbie Wasserman Schultz went to high school. Just sayin'.
That's sad.
So she was kicked out of the sorority but not punished by the school. Whatever it was she did could not have been that bad. The newspaper and porn hazing sounds like an urban legend.
"Anyone whose newspaper stuck to them at the end,..."
1) I'm glad I'm not female.
2) Never thought I'd see THAT in print.
3) I saw a comedian, last weekend, who did an entire 5 min. set on "Pussy Juice" and KILLED IT.
4) This reminds me of the time I lived with two women - it was disgusting and the scheming never ended (Hey, Ann, what do suspect someone *might be* thinking about whatever? Go act on it, fast, before learning the truth,...).
5) <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPspBMgiIts“>My last word on any silly frat activity is this,...</a>
Why does the article call her the 'embattled Miss America?' Is she under fire for her internship at a Planned Parenthood affiliate? No mention. Apparently, her aspirations include aspirating healthy living tissue. Mean girl.
Unless the sorority comes out with the actual FACTS, I'd suggest ignoring it.
Does everyone expect perfect backgrounds? Reminds me of the zero-deficient Army standards.
One black mark and you are out of the service. With their criteria Gen.s Patton, MacArthur, Billy Michell.. Gen. Sherman was a drunk (as was Grant.)
And with zero tolerance in schools, who knows why she was kicked out.
Again, lets see the facts before judgment.
Cat food, properly seasoned and warmed, is quite edible.
It says as much about the young women willing to submit to these alleged ritual humiliations all for a pledge pin as it does about the upperclasspersons who allegedly hazed them.
Seriously, people trying to outlast one another perched on billboards for a free car have more self-respect.
I'm going to assume 'urban legend', as well.
I never understood why any organization would make hazing a part of their initiation--all you're doing is ensuring that your new members will be the ones with no self respect.
A better plan would be coming up with some way for potential recruits to demonstrate their excellence--for example, requiring pledge groups to brew their own beer, using creativity and skill, and the group that brews the best beer gets initiated. Then it's less "how much crap will you tolerate to be a part of this" and more "how much more valuable are you than the others who wish to join".
I doubt all those stories, especially the one with the newspaper. That would make a great porn movie though. They're probably filming it already.
There was an initiation hazing controversy in my high school FFA chapter. It was solved by inviting the parents to watch.
She can't be "embattled" - they only use that term for conservatives and I read she is a bigtime lib.
Brando said...
I never understood why any organization would make hazing a part of their initiation--all you're doing is ensuring that your new members will be the ones with no self respect.
It works to build commitment to the group on a sub-conscious level. Once you have gone through all that crap to join the group, you have a vested interest in believing that belonging to the group is really important. Otherwise you would have to conclude that you did something stupid, and your brain works very hard to avoid having to reach that conclusion.
So dad paid for some girl-girl porn.
I'm finding those hazing stories hard to believe. Who would put up with it? At a sorority? Forcing someone to oral sex? Um, no.
I'll be in my bunk.
I'm not sure I buy those initiation stories, either. But the idea that anyone would want to endure purposeless humiliation to be one of the cool kids strikes me as, well, not cool. In any case, I've let my kids know that should they decide to go Greek, they will have to find a way to pay for school themselves.
I call bullshit on those stories.
The hazing probably consisted of being forced to stay awake, clean toilets, and drink alcohol. Not nice, but not exactly performing oral sex and eating vomit.
"It works to build commitment to the group on a sub-conscious level. Once you have gone through all that crap to join the group, you have a vested interest in believing that belonging to the group is really important. Otherwise you would have to conclude that you did something stupid, and your brain works very hard to avoid having to reach that conclusion."
I suppose--what I hear from those who go through things like that is that it is like military training, in that you have a greater bond with those who you did it with. But the difference I see is that the military training is geared more towards building the recruits into the cohesive unit they'll need to fight as, and establishing the deference for the chain of command. For a greek organization (or any club) I figure you could achieve the same results with initiation rituals designed to test endurance, smarts and dedication, without requiring humiliation.
Then again, I never joined a fraternity (they weren't very big at my school, as there were plenty of other options for partying) so my perspective is that of the outsider.
I used to work with some black guy who had a brand on his upper arm.
And I mean a real brand, like they burn into a beef steer. It was some letter of the classical Greek alphabet.
He said he had to get it when he joined some black fraternity.
That answer satisfied my curiosity and I thought it best not to ask any more questions or to say what was on my mind.
Bet I wasn't the first to stop right there.
Uh, what was the joke? From the article she says “That we would make the evening scary for the pledges, when that event never came to fruition and none of these things that I’ve been accused of ever happened or were ever intended to happen.” , but honestly if her email said "we're gonna get those pledges good tonight, I tell you what!" I don't think that'd be actionable, would it? Find and print the email, she must be judged!
I'm sure Crack will explain to us why black men scarring other black men with branding irons is whitey's fault.
As to the hazing mentioned in the story, I know it's true, since I read about it years ago in Penthouse Forum.
Yeah, on second reading, I'm going with urban legend, too.
Oral sex? No way.
DanTheMan,
"I'm sure Crack will explain to us why black men scarring other black men with branding irons is whitey's fault."
You guys are either seriously confused or simply demented:
You think what white's did, and still do, to blacks AGAINST OUR WILL is OK - which is pretty sick.
To equate your evil (which comes through in almost every white comment) with how we lead our own cultural lives (blacks have been scarring our skin since,...forever) is insane.
BTW - I read black numbers are down in the military:
Time to step it up, white boys!
ISIS awaits,...
I was in a frat back in the early 1970s when hazing was the norm. Most of what you heard and what we spread were "urban legends". The rumors were meant to scare pledges.
I'm not saying we didn't occasionally put pledges in mental institutions, hey it happens, but there was never any sexual hazing. Good times, good times.
So, information with no evidence of relevance. Thanks.
I don't get why I'm supposed to feel bad for adults who do asinine things so they can pay money to have friends.
I doubt any of this happened. If it did someone in authority is allowing crimes to be committed.
I lived in a fraternity house from 1972 to 1976. We pulled pranks on each other from time to time, but this type of sexual or vomit-related hazing never happened. I think everyone in my house was a both victim and perpetrator at some time. College-age guys can be very creative, energetic, and competitive!
My national fraternity has always stressed good character. It now uses a character-building program that is so successful there are invitations from colleges to establish new chapters. Brotherhood with good character is a valuable asset to a man and starts in youth.
Brando said...
I suppose--what I hear from those who go through things like that is that it is like military training, in that you have a greater bond with those who you did it with. But the difference I see is that the military training is geared more towards building the recruits into the cohesive unit they'll need to fight as, and establishing the deference for the chain of command.
Military training starts at Basic, where they impart essential skills and weed out those who can't cut it. There is also unit cohesion and other factors to consider. As you look at the elite units like Army Rangers/Special Forces and Navy SEALS, training is very intense to select only those who can live up to very high standards of performance (mental and physical). It isn't hazing, it's selection of the men you'll want to have next to you when things go really, really bad.
Ann I try to keep reading you as the token liberal blog. However your posts are so offensive that I have to stop again.
I don't know what's worse, this one, the one yesterday about the plastic surgery, your allowance of Crack on the site, or your incoherent rationalization of voting for Obama listed below. And yes you'll vote for Miss Trek and HRC because as my mom says: "I'm a production of my generation."
If they want oral sex, why do they get rid of the dykes?
If they force one girl to go down on another, isn't that rape? Why is no crime being charged here?
I'm going with several others. Sounds like an urban legend.
I doubt the story.
John Henry
Larry J--yeah, I'd say military training isn't in the same category as "hazing" (though whether "hazing" takes place in the military on top of the actual training is another question some vets may be able to answer). Discipline and hardship are a different order from "let's see how much stupid crap these pledges can put up with just to join our club".
Though, as suggested above, I wouldn't be surprised if most of these stories were urban legends. None of my friends who joined frats were hazed (or at least would admit to it).
Gqwd, if anyone believes those "hazing" stories I've got some swampland in Arizona to sell you, along with this genuine Rolex watch for only $29.95.
Hazing is OK until it is used as a cover for real sadists. Sadists don't deserve cover. It is important that an adult stay involved who knows the difference.
When the Miami Dolphins offensive line could not tell the difference, their cover got blown up good.
BTW - I read black numbers are down in the military:
Time to step it up, white boys!
ISIS awaits,...
No sweat Crack. Victor units, i.e. the ones that fight, are overwhelmingly white these days. Special ops even more so. Blacks mostly join up to get paid, learn a trade, avoid jail. The floors will get mopped some other time.
Moral fluidity.
"not necessarily attributed to Kazantsev's sorority..."
hmmmmmmm
are we sure those initiation stories aren't only from teh fevered imagination of some jezebel writer?
Yeah right. You betcha. That really happened! It really did! I've got phot--, well, no photos. But it really happened!
Stories written by a man.
"In another one you had to kill a member of a rival sorority and eat the corpse."
Boy that shut him up. Not that boy is a racist remark.
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