September 12, 2014

7th Circuit reinstates Wisconsin voter ID law.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reports.

After blogging this morning about the impending oral argument — here — I listened to it — here — all the way to the end where the state asks the court to reinstate the law today, and I look and see that, in fact, has already happened.

The MJS reports that the court issued an order allowing Wisconsin to enforce the law for the upcoming elections. The court noted the way the Wisconsin Supreme Court's decision "reduces the likelihood of irreparable injury, and...  changes the balance of equities and thus the propriety of federal injunctive relief, and... the state's probability of success on the merits."

The judges on the panel were former Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice Diane Sykes along with Frank Easterbrook and John Tinder. At the oral argument today, they were quite skeptical of the power of the district judge to reject the importance of preventing in-person voter fraud.

In the 2008 case upholding the Indiana voter ID law, Crawford, the U.S. Supreme Court had accepted that the state had an important interest in preventing fraud and in promoting public confidence. In the current case, the district judge, Lynn Adelman, held a trial and listened to an expert witness who opined that it's unlikely that anyone would engage in this kind of fraud. Those who are challenging the Wisconsin law want the appeals court to defer to his factfinding, but Sykes and Easterbrook resisted the notion that hearing opinion witnesses could enable a trial judge to supersede the opinion of the U.S. Supreme Court.

Go to 43:15 in the audio for this discussion. Sykes says she's not sure that Adelman's findings were "classic factual findings," and Judge Easterbrook then says:
"Judge Sykes just asked a question that bugged me, and maybe we should discuss it more completely, but some of what's going on here seems to be: The Supreme Court said particular things in Crawford. The district judge then holds a trial and says: I find this a fact: that the Supreme Court of the United States is wrong and I enjoin this statute. Is that a proper relation between the Supreme Court and what the Constitution calls 'the inferior courts'?"
The lawyer tried to say the district judge wasn't calling the Supreme Court wrong in finding a state interest, but was finding as a fact that the state has no interest, but that's exactly what was bugging Judge Easterbrook. He said:
"Right: The district judge takes testimony from people who disagree with the Supreme Court and says: I credit their testimony, and I therefore find that there isn't an important interest in deterring fraud and public confidence isn't something we should worry about and so on...."
The panel is not inclined to defer to Judge Adelman just because he held a trial and found facts. These are not "classic factual findings," and Crawford will dictate the outcome, I predict.

228 comments:

«Oldest   ‹Older   201 – 228 of 228
Original Mike said...

I have two friends, both M.D.s, who 10 or 15 years ago became naturalized U.S. citizens. Both came back from their first time voting, sputtering mad, at the lack of an I.D. requirement at the polls. They couldn't believe it.

The Crack Emcee said...

Crimso,

"It can be very tiring, getting people to admit the errors in their reasoning. And it is usually futile, which is why I tend not to do it."

It also wins you no favors, and will get you wrongly-attacked, and the pay-off is usually long-coming or death.

But that's "the work." And somebody has to do it. It doesn't get done on it's own. Blacks are fanned out all over this country, talking to whites about subjects that make them uncomfortable, because our lives depend on it.

Whites don't live with that. And yet they think our lives are essentially the same.

As I keep saying, it's essentially insanity,...



The Crack Emcee said...

DanTheMan,

"OK, so by Crack's standard, professor Althouse is a racist.
Because she's white."

Because that's what the words "it's like" always mean.

A white education is nothing of the kind,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Crimso,

"I agree. But we hear this continuously nonetheless do we not?"

And you don't see that as white supremacy? Weird.

"But my wondering wasn't so innocent. I recall seeing a news story some months back claiming that "European election monitors" are stunned that the U.S. does not have a universal requirement for voter ID. I don't recall where I saw it, nor the source (it may have been my monthly issue of "KKK This Week")."

What's the likelihood they understood Jim Crow laws? Probably zip. So who cares what they think?

"But I did check more recently to see how many European countries require picture ID to vote. It's a mix, IIRC."

Because it's a non-issue to most.

"So the story was probably about the opinions of only certain election monitors. I still strongly suspect that there are election officials in other countries who think it unbelievably foolish to not make people identify themselves to vote, and wouldn't for one second believe assertions that efforts to institute laws to that effect here are all about racism and voter suppression."

Again - we've had 400 years of whites doing everything in their power, besides killing us all, to keep us from voting, serving on juries, having our cases heard, or any of our grienvances taken seriously - as whites were, at the exact same time, able to blissfully (and empty-headedly) go about their lives.

And now - after 4 centuries - we're supposed to take their word for it they're all good guys now and would never do anything to hurt us.

I know they also think we're stupid, but that, too, doesn't make it so,...

Unknown said...

Madisonfella, you actually have been fairly persuasive regarding a one-source national identity card. Seriously, there are many areas that are problems that could be addressed in addition to ensuring that each citizen who wants to vote can vote one time.

It would put an end to the cynical and demeaning diatribes that some party's constituents are unable to cope with what is a basic requirement in a modern society. This area of friction would be removed so that having identity documents would not be 'white privilege' or 'voter suppression' but something we truly share.

This would enhance our national security in that we would better know who is rightfully within our borders and who is not. Recall the 911 hijackers had mainly come in legally but had overstayed their permitted period.

This would be a component of what we all know is broken border security. While it has not been our culture until now, carrying documentation in a day when drug cartels and jihadi groups want to come here to do us harm is probably what we need to better keep our enemies out.

It would be a foundation for a solid guest worker program and also verifiable enforcement by ICE so that we could again put our faith in government to protect American citizens and their jobs while meeting any real requirement for additional skilled or unskilled labor.

The Real ID Act incorporates some of this. I wish the behavior of the NSA

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2050100/nsa-admits-employees-spied-on-loved-ones.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nsa-gathered-thousands-of-americans-emails-fisa-court-records-show/

and the out of control IRS

http://www.bigstory.ap.org/article/irs-apologizes-targeting-conservative-groups

http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/100413-673965-irs-audit-of-prominent-obama-critic-demands-probe.htm

didn't color the simple idea of a national ID to be a threat to our freedom.

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
Geo Washington

garage mahal said...

Here is a really crazy idea. Set up a booth at the polling place where people without picture ID can get picture ID. They would present the same documents they would have to produce at the DMV and they get an ID on the spot. Then they vote. The polling places are always open on voting days.

*Bump*

Curious Cock Sucker doesn't like it. But that is totally predictable.

I endorse. Why shouldn't everyone be able to vote in this fashion?

Original Mike said...

"they would present the same documents they would have to produce at the DMV"

What documents are those? (I haven't been reading this thread)

Curious George said...

garage mahal said...
*Bump*

Curious Cock Sucker doesn't like it. But that is totally predictable.

I endorse. Why shouldn't everyone be able to vote in this fashion?"

I'm sure you do, because you too are a moron.

garage mahal said...

Who could possibly ever disagree, even slightly, with Scott Walker? Why, a complete moron! *slurp*

garage mahal said...

So, more importantly, the election is already underway - what happens to those 12,000 votes already cast?

Unknown said...

I think it was Glenn Reynolds who posited that there were social "contracts" between the government and the people. I.E., the gov't will enforce the laws and dispense justice, and the people agree to give up vigilantism. In this case it is the government's resposibility to ensure the integrity of elections and orderly transition of power.If the gov't refuses to perform it's responsibility then the contract is void. I didn't paraphrase that very well - I'll have to find that post and link it.

Michael said...

Original Mike

When applying for an original (first) Wisconsin instruction permit, driver license or identification card (ID), you must provide acceptable documents showing:
y Proof of U.S. citizenship, legal permanent resident status, legal conditional resident status or legal presence in the U.S.
y Proof of your name and date of birth.
y Proof of identity.
y Proof of Wisconsin residency
if you are 18 years of age or older. y Proof of Social Security Number.

Original Mike said...

Well, that sounds good, except "legal permanent resident status, legal conditional resident status or legal presence in the U.S." doesn't allow you to vote. Sounds like we need more than a Wis. Drivers License.

Again, my apology if I'm treading old ground.

n.n said...

South Africa: Electoral Commission: FAQ For Voters

Apartheid was implemented to compensate for immigrants not only failing to assimilate, but actively working to disrupt and subvert the local morality, culture, and standards.

It was exploited by the international left and Mandela to justify the murder of native black and white South Africans
in order to claim ownership of developed and raw resources and defeat competing factions of Zulu, respectively.

Today, South Africans murder and rape illegal aliens who cross from adjacent nations. They do not have a popular policy of deportation. They are also the rape capital of the world with a criminal demographic that matches the violation committed in Norway, etc. More "progressive" nations.

But, this thread is ostensibly about democratic integrity. So, let's return to the electoral requirements of voters in that progressive nation, and to Mandela's own requests for accountability through positive identification.

The projections or simple deceptions of people who are ostensible Americans, but hoping to claim ownership of this nation through subversion are extraordinary.

Michael said...

Original Mike
Those are the same requirements in Wisc for an ID card per the DMV. I think you have to have all of those items.

What else required ro vote?

Original Mike said...

What's required to register to vote? I don't remember.

MikeR said...

Ridiculous. Both the Democratic and Republican parties have plenty of volunteers to do things like GOTV, driving people to and from polling places. They can help people get photo IDs if they want them. Give them a call, for any of the examples people are discussing. Their volunteers would help the person get a photo ID, and there's plenty of time. Announce today that you will help. When people knock on doors, ask if they need help getting a photo ID. This is a non-problem. It's hard for me not to see it as an excuse for fraud, or at least a way to keep Democratic constituencies paranoid. I can see enough of the paranoia on display here.

garage mahal said...

What's required to register to vote? I don't remember

Confused voters don't vote. Who wants to get embarrassed at your polling place? A lot of people will just say fuck it. For good reason. [Advantage Walker].

The Crack Emcee said...

Every time he chastises blacks, whites declare him a genius, but what will they say now?

Never shy about expressing his views, Bill Cosby says that blacks should prepare now to aggressively challenge efforts to disenfranchise their vote at the ballot box in November’s midterm elections.”

Original Mike said...

@garage 9:12. Thanks (for nothing).

Jaq said...

Cosby is right again, as usual. Blacks, the overwhelming majority of whom are US citizens, should make a huge effort to ensure that those in their community who don't have IDs can get them.

I was just at the drug store and noticed a sign that said that if you wanted a painkiller that would actually work against serious pain, you needed a government ID. Same with certain "over the counter" medications that can be used to make meth.

Taking people's picture who want to vote without ID sounds good to me. Then give them a provisional ballot, to be squabbled over if the election is close, the way the Democrats worked so hard to throw out every military ballot they could, and each one went though a proctology exam.

Fine. Also make the pictures public, so that they can be run through software to find duplicates.

I would be perfectly fine with a system such as this that, in light of our history with blacks, was extended to all identifiably black people.

If we are going to take history into account though, lets look at the history of Hispanics crossing the border illegally and take that into account as well.

Michael said...

White people will also be required to have voter ID. Surely there are more stupid, lazy, incapacitated, remotely situated, baffled, slow white people than there are blacks of the same category. It is almost as though lefties have convinced blacks that these are frailties unique to blacks.

The Crack Emcee said...

tim in vermont,

"Cosby is right again, as usual. Blacks, the overwhelming majority of whom are US citizens, should make a huge effort to ensure that those in their community who don't have IDs can get them."

Ha! You totally turned around his meaning. He spoke of "enemies" - saying we know who they are - the very people who have always tried to keep us from voting. WHITES.

Making it easier for blacks to vote - which whites have historically attempted to stop? Naw, that's not in white's interest.

They've never cared about anything else,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Michael,

"It is almost as though lefties blah, blah, blah, blah, worthless,....

Jaq said...

"worthless,...." - Crack


Ha ha ha! That is pretty funny coming from you Crack.

The Crack Emcee said...

im in vermont,

"Ha ha ha! That is pretty funny coming from you Crack."

Not as much as idiots thinking the right/left divide defines us.

Now, the black/white divide - that's for realz,...

bobby said...

If you're part of the political movement that has opened our borders to an estimated 13-15 million illegal aliens, your personal sense of shame ought to be enough to keep you silent on the topic of voter ID.

Drago said...

Crack: "They've never cared about anything else,..."

Well, we have tried to get the black africans to stop virgin-raping young girls to "cure" AIDS, but you know those wacky "Sun People"!!

«Oldest ‹Older   201 – 228 of 228   Newer› Newest»