August 27, 2014

"No-one knows the true scale of child sexual exploitation in Rotherham over the years."

"Our conservative estimate is that approximately 1,400 children were sexually exploited over the full inquiry period, from 1997 to 2013," said Professor Alexis Jay, who wrote the new report.
The report found: "Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so."

Failures by those charged with protecting children happened despite three reports between 2002 and 2006 which both the council and police were aware of, and "which could not have been clearer in the description of the situation in Rotherham."

Prof Jay said the first of these reports was "effectively suppressed" because senior officers did not believe the data. The other two were ignored, she said.
Even if you don't believe that data — because the scale of the criminality is so extreme — action should be taken. Or was the action always only to do another report in order to get better data?

As for the "fear of being thought as racist" — that gets our attention, and we could muse forever about how to talk about race in the context of patterns of criminal behavior — but it doesn't explain (let alone excuse) the failure to deal with rampant crime. It's harmful to provoke people to worry that every Pakistani male is a child rapist, but descriptions of suspects can't be edited to exclude identifying characteristics. Everyone knows that.

I'd like to see more detail about this "fear of being thought as racist." It sounds like a confession of deliberate law enforcement paralysis, a choice to permit thousands of children to be raped for decades on end, because of befuddlement about how on earth to begin to do anything without looking bad or because of a sense that your community is already hopelessly overwhelmed by evil forces that will only become more aggressive and violent if opposed.
A victim of abuse in Rotherham, who has been called "Isabel" to protect her identity, told BBC Panorama... "I think because the police were aware and social services were aware and he knew that and they still didn't stop him it I think it encouraged him. It almost became like a game to him. He was untouchable."

131 comments:

PB said...

the human cost of political correctness.

Luke Lea said...

As long as they permit the customs of the lands from which they come (cousin marriage, arranged marriage, etc.) the perps will remain part of an unassimilable minority. The sooner Britain faces up to that the better. Ukip has the right idea.

Drago said...

All we need to know is that the alleged perpetrators are Pakistani, thus muslim (hilariously termed "asian" as is standard "obfuscatory" practice in the EU), and it becomes clear why these left wing governmental entities are unwilling to proceed aggressively.

Can't have "unfortunate" narratives such as enslavement, beheadings, FGM, torture/forced conversions, etc get in the way of the Christian bashing and fake "War on Women".

chickelit said...

The report found: 'Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.'

Whom did it help to keep such secrets? Whom did it hurt?

MnMark said...

I would like to see an article written that honestly and straightforwardly weighed the benefits and costs to the native British people of non-white immigration. We are always told by the progressive elite that we gain so much from diversity - ok, put up or shut up: list the very specific benefits in very specific, quantifiable (if possible) terms. OK now list the costs: how many women and girls raped by immigrants or their children? How many natives murdered? How much native tax money spent on supporting immigrants or on cleaning up after them when they cause social disorder? How much destruction of social cohesiveness, and the costs of all of that? What about the fear natives feel about the future as a minority in their own land?

If someone were to honestly list these costs and benefits side by side, I think it would be overwhelmingly obvious that immigration is profoundly harmful to the native people. I think most of us intuit that anyway. But it would be nice to make the diversity-mongers state explicitly what these wonderful benefits are that outweigh all of that destruction.

Seeing Red said...

We are all equal, no culture is better or worse than the other.

Tank said...

MnMark said...

I would like to see an article written that honestly and straightforwardly weighed the benefits and costs to the native British people of non-white immigration


There are plenty of these kinds of articles and blog posts. You are not looking in the right places. Just don't tell anyone you looked there because that would be ... well it would be similar to what happened in Rotherham.

Seeing Red said...

What's the diff between this and Jimmy Savile?

MnMark said...

@Luke Lea: As long as they permit the customs of the lands from which they come (cousin marriage, arranged marriage, etc.) the perps will remain part of an unassimilable minority.

This is something nice liberals tell themselves when the diversity they imported turns out to be destroying the country. "We just need more education, more communication, a little more firmness that these vibrant people adopt our progressive ideology. Then all will be well."

It's similar to the way liberals always think that this year is the year they're going to close the racial achievement gap with another program. They've been trying to do it for a century, and spending massive amounts of money for the last 50 years, and it never changes a thing. It's because they can't admit that it's genetic and can't be changed with talk. Same with the Pakistanis. They are who they are, largely because of their genetics.

Seeing Red said...

What's up with the Euros, anyway? Belgians got busted for kiddie diddling a few years ago. Here not on such a grand scale like they seem to, yes correlation is not causation.

Seeing Red said...

It's like Congress running on stopping human trafficking and our southern border is open.

MnMark said...

@Tank There are plenty of these kinds of articles and blog posts. You are not looking in the right places.

I know that Stormfront or whatever will have this sort of thing, but they are not neutral. I'd like to see some honest, up-front detailing of the costs and benefits, with partisans from both sides invited to give their input, so that the native society can take an honest look at the situation.

Of course I know very well this well never happen because it would be obvious that Third World immigration is terrible for anglosphere. And thus it can't be talked about. It would be interesting, is all I'm saying. Seems like you ought to be able to find an honest, well-meaning liberal/progressive out there who was not afraid to honestly defend what he advocates. If he really believes that non-white immigration is good for white countries, then prove it with a detailed, balanced accounting that people on both sides of the argument can agree is thorough and fair. (If that is even possible.)

Anonymous said...

As long as they get free birth control from their government I'm not sure there is a problem.

Tank said...

@Mn

Well, I don't think you need to go to Stormfront (I don't), I'm thinking more in the iSteve and Derb and AmRen areas.

Wince said...

One of the most often cited cases on the defense of provocation, DPP v Camplin, House of Lords (1978):

The respondent, Camplin, who was fifteen years of age, killed a middle aged Pakistani, Mohammed Lal Khan, by splitting his skull with a chapati pan, a heavy kitchen utensil like a rimless frying pan. At the time the two of
them were alone together in Khan's flat. At Camplin's trial for murder before Boreham J. his only defence was that of provocation so as to reduce the offence to manslaughter. According to the story that he told in the witness box but which differed materially from that which he had told to
the police, Khan had buggered him in spite of his resistance and had then laughed at him. Whereupon Camplin had lost his self-control and attacked Khan fatally with the chapati pan.


Instapundit said, "SOUNDS LIKE PEOPLE SHOULD BE HANGING FROM LAMPPOSTS".

Or, it's time to grab the chipati pan.

Gaslight said...

Fear of appearing "racist" is obviously no reason to stand idly by while children are raped and abused, but even if the police actually did blame this on the perpetrators ethnic backgrounds (amusingly described with the euphemism "Asian" in much of the British press coverage of this story, when they can even bring themselves to go that far)... it would still just be an exercise in self-delusion.

What is the one really important characteristic all of the perpetrators probably have in common? Hint: it has nothing to do with race/ethnicity.

Answer: they are almost certainly all Muslims. The hand-wringing about "race" is itself just a way of avoiding confronting the reality of the problem. This is not about ethnicity, or even "culture": it is about religion.

CStanley said...

I've followed a few links to try to get background information on this story but I'm still confused. Who were these children? Were they kidnapped, runaways, or foster kids?

Carol said...

MnMark, closest you will get is Steve Sailer.

madAsHell said...

Who were these children? Were they kidnapped, runaways, or foster kids?

It doesn't matter. We have identified victims, and we need money to resolve there grief.

The more anonymous the better.....cuz that money is never going to the victim.

Mark said...

The dividend of colonialism and the partition of the Indian Subcontinent.

The sun will never set on the problems their colonialism created.

Paco Wové said...

"Who were these children?"

Also, how many perpetrators? I've only heard of 5 people going to jail over this (so far). That's a lot of minors for 5 guys.

SJ said...

With respect to the number of victims, and the protection of perpetrators by the System:

How does this scandal compare to the Catholic Priest scandal in the U.S.?

Or the Jimmy Savile scandal?

Or the Penn State scandal surrounding Sandusky?

Wince said...

Paco Wové said...
That's a lot of minors for 5 guys.

First Burger King, now Five Guys?

The Crack Emcee said...

Man, it sure is terrible whites started this racist shit, so they can blame it on blacks later.

Wait,...

Saint Croix said...

"Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so."

I call bullshit on race. Race? This has nothing to do with race.

Here we see the skin color of the perps. White, white, and white dude with a suntan. Their ancestors might have come from the Caucus mountains.

Arab? Asian? White?

Who cares! Liberal idiots, stuck in the 19th century with their moldy Marx and their stupid racial theories, are unable to see or think clearly. They can't even identify the problem, let alone talk about it.

The problem here is Islam.

Do you know anything about Muhammad? Apparently he married a girl when she was 6, and had sex with her when she was 9.

What would Muhammad do? Well, he would have sex with a 9-year-old, that's what he would do.

So that's a problem for us, yes? It's a problem for us and for our culture. It's a problem for liberal values. If you think having sex with a 9-year-old is wrong, you have to make clear to people who think it's okay that they are wrong and that our laws will be enforced.

And, obviously, there are millions of Muslims who are not pedophiles. I like the Sufis because they are very spiritual, but I also like them because they do not believe the Koran should be read and followed literally. In particular if you follow Muhammad's sexual behavior, you are going to clash with western civilization. Specifically, you are going to clash with Christians and Jews, who are appalled at what seems to us very much like the rape of children.

chickelit said...

More Saint Croix and less Crack Emcee.

Faster please.

The Drill SGT said...

The Labor Party did the "Open Borders" and "multi-culturalism is good" gig for 20 years. This is the wages of that policy. Ultimately the UK is going to be a Muslim province of the 22nd century Caliphate.

an interesting factiod or 2.

- at this point, the UK is 4-5% Muslim
- however the % of Muslims in the armed forces is .4%
- More Brits are fighting for ISIS than in the UK Army.

sean said...

"I would like to see an article written that honestly and straightforwardly weighed the benefits and costs to the native British people of non-white immigration."

Careful--Prof. Althouse is in the "open it up or shut it down" camp.

ErnieG said...

It appears that the official attitude towards the goings-on in the predominately-'Asian' estates is summed up in the last line of dialog in Chinatown:

Walsh: Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown.

Anonymous said...

"Asian" is not a euphemism; it's how you say "Middle Eastern" if you're British.

Uncle Pavian said...

If the Muslims of Rotherham are outraged at the police and social services ignoring reports of child sex abuse, just imagine how outraged they'd be if the police had actually arrested a bunch of Muslim child molesters.

Civilis said...

I would like to see an article written that honestly and straightforwardly weighed the benefits and costs to the native British people of non-white immigration.

It's not a matter of race. I suspect immigrants from East Asia cause very little problems in Britain, and I know there are a lot of problems associated with immigrants from Eastern Europe.

The Labor Party did the "Open Borders" and "multi-culturalism is good" gig for 20 years. This is the wages of that policy. Ultimately the UK is going to be a Muslim province of the 22nd century Caliphate.

I see the odds of this happening as rather lower than the odds of a nativist/nationalist party taking power and dealing with the situation in a rather nasty fashion, and the longer it takes the nastier the reaction will be. We've seen what happened last times this occurred in Europe.

Saint Croix said...

What Islamic newspapers should do is run articles about abortion in the west. And they should run photographs of the victims and denounce us as baby-killers.

There is not a culture in the world that is without sin.

William said...

People don't like to think of their fellow humans as child rapists. That's why Catholic priests, Jimmy Saville, Jerry Sandusky and so many others were able to prosper and thrive. The exception to this rule is if you're attached to a suspect organization, people think the worse. And, of course, just the reverse, if you're affiliated with a cause or organization that people want to think well of. Liberals were right away able to see the flaws in the Catholic Church, but they were less perceptive when it came to the BBC and it's coverup of Jimmy Saville. Looks like a similar bit of willful negligence here......If Daniel Ortega were a right wing dictator or if Woody Allen directed action movies, their reputations would have suffered a far worse hit,

Tarrou said...

In Leftism, it is better that thousands of children be gang-raped than one minority be prosecuted for the crime. Because white supremacism. Think of it as reparations.

SomeoneHasToSayIt said...

The Crack Emcee said...
Man, it sure is terrible whites started this racist shit, so they can blame it on blacks later.

Wait,...


That's a very insightful observation, Crack. I don't think we appreciate enough just what your comments add to Althouse threads. So n behalf of all of us, thanks.

Anonymous said...

Just some Asian guys, that's all.

Just some slight moral impropriety in sector 8 of the liberal secular humanist democracy that's progressing nicely.

Expect some trouble in sector 9 where EDL yobs might make a stink, but it'll settle down.

Later that night, just turn on the tele and let the BBC wash over you.

Over here, I'm going to listen to a hyphenated-name lady talk to me about eating bugs and community. on NPR.

But my girlfriend thinks I'm a bully for telling her mother to back out of our life and her father's a transvestite, so I'll write to Slate for some 'ethics.'

Epiphyte - said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Alexander said...

Mark, that's very enlightening. Could you explain to me the rise of rape in Malmo and the demands this week for a sharia compliant quarter in Oslo?

Or for that matter, the attemps to plunder Europe by Muslims centuries before the English came to India?

There is a place for "Asian" culture: that place is called Asia. It is the biggest landmass on the planet - it does not need to venture to an island off of Europe which is already more densely populated than Pakistan. Let each own his own home.

Epiphyte - said...


St. Croix said,

"The problem here is Islam.

Do you know anything about Muhammad? Apparently he married a girl when she was 6, and had sex with her when she was 9. . . ."

That's part of it, but there's a more important element. Muslim women are expected to practice purdah (veiling, gender apartheid, not leaving the house without a male relative, etc..) Their status and entitlement to consideration and protection under Islamic law is tied to whether or not they are following these rules - to such an extent, that a female's failure to obey purdah is often a good defense to a charge of rape in a country governed by Islamic law. At the same time, muslim men consider women who are not acting in obedience to these rules to be western sluts who deserve to be punished for refusing to abide by Islamic standards. This attitude is a strong tool of islamization since it essentially forces even non-muslim women to start obeying purdah simply as a means of self- defense (from the religiously justified predatory behavior of muslim men, mostly). There is also an even darker element to this behavior: Accordingly to the Quran, it's permissible to take non-muslim females in the course of hostilities against an unsubmitting group of non-muslims and use them sex slaves (i.e. right hand possessions"). I think both of these justifications feed into this behavior, but I think the "purdah" argument is the right one in most cases.

jvermeer51 said...

Let's skip the small stuff like being called a racist. How about being arrested for quoting Winston Churchill. Paul Weston was arrested in the UK for reading from Churchill's book "The River War" which contained criticism of Islam. Such an arrest tells you anything you might want to know about the political climate there. Or, Ann, you could just look at the your own campus and figure there's pretty similar.

buwaya said...

Politics. Pakistanis are a Labour constituency, as are leftist bureaucrats. The numbers involved here are enormous, with easily as many perpetrators as victims and probably many more, and doubtless by their nature underreported, implying that a proper response would have amounted to a pogrom vs the local Pakistanis. That is not a large city. 1400 cases out of 250,000 people implies that the victims were a large proportion (10% or so) of the white girls in the vulnerable ages. Which also implies as high or larger proportions of the local Muslim men, and a multiple of that of affected Muslim families. Also note that this all occurred while Labour was in government and driving policy.
Consider that this is probably not unique to this city. There have been similar reports in the British press from other places. What makes this case unique is that someone investigated and publicized it.

Alexander said...

On the plus side, the Europeans are already making talk about taking citizenship away from jihadbound "citizens." Ive said at althouse before - the left is going to be apalled at what their European role models are capable of. I expect we are one or two catastrophes away before there is a openly widespread support in Europe for banning Islam and removing citizenship of all immigrants from Islam-dominated nations. Another one or two until it becomes law in a few of them, and one or two after that that the citizens of the progressive holdouts take matters into their own hands.

And oh how our americanclass of dogooders will weep!

rhhardin said...

Islam is unaware of the discovery of child sexual abuse as a popular item of outrage, or doesn't care.

Burn a Koran to get their attention. Huge ratings.

Beorn said...

You have to go to The Guardian to discover that the "Asian Men" are Pakistani taxi drivers.

How quaint of the BBC.

Birches said...

I tried reading the article, but I just feel sick that people allowed this to happen, I stopped.

Can't we go back to debating the important things, like beyonce and Sofia Vegara?

Anonymous said...

I thought there was no way that that scummy little crap Crack would show up on this thread. I thought, "I know he's a troll but every human has some element of shame. No way he's going to show up on this thread."

If we didn't have solid evidence that Crack is real -- which, unfortunately, we do -- it would be safe to assume he's a white guy trying to portray a crudely drawn racist sketch of a black man.

n.n said...

If you like your culture, then the rate of immigration cannot exceed the rate of assimilation, and the alien cultures, if tolerable, are either integrated or isolated. The problem in Rotherham is an example of an extreme consequence of open (e.g. illegal) or liberal immigration policies.

It's not as if every society does not already have a native subset of dysfunctional, unproductive, or degenerate people to cope with. Shifting the problem, or exploiting the problem for democratic or commercial leverage, without addressing the causes, will only geographically diversify the problem.

Unknown said...

Drago: In the UK, "Asian" means those people from the Pakistan/India region rather than Southeast Asians like Japan and China as we use the word.

Anonymous said...

@Alexander -- yes, I'm looking forward to that also. I suspect, though, that the academic left in this country is in much the same position as the officials in the Rotherham case -- so completely terrified of all minorities that even if their saintly European role models start to crack down on the atavistic evil of Muslim culture, they'll just wall off that fact in a corner of their minds, unwilling to look at it lest they offend someone.

They are absolutely terrified of offending any minority of any kind, because they believe, deep in their hearts, that the resulting violent rage would in fact be justified.

I know our hostess is not on or anywhere near the academic left, yet she does exhibit a few of the same pathologies of thought.

BBarilko said...

...... The dividend of colonialism and the partition of the Indian Subcontinent.

The sun will never set on the problems their colonialism created.....

Nonsense.

This is soley the function of the liberal, PC multi-cult crowd.

Inferring colonialism that started 250yrs ago is the reason muslim immigrants are molesting children in 2014 is absurd.

Here's the problem. The most popular name for newborn boys in England this year is Muhammed.

Take one part liberal ideology, add immigration without assimilation ,add some MSM abdication of journalistic duties and...voila!!! death of a culture.

Grow some balls, England. Either that or head down to the local mosque and sign up.

Gahrie said...

Islam is the smallpox of religions, and it is time we treat it as such.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

To chime in: In Britain, "Asian" generally means people from the former British Raj, mainly Pakistan. The UK doesn't have nearly as much immigration as we do, but for a time people with British passports (= subjects of any former British colony, of which India/Pakistan was much the largest) were allowed to travel on them, and immigrate if they pleased.

It's not a "euphemism"; it's what "Asian" means to the average Brit. The East Asian contingent that US people mean by the word is practically invisible in the UK.

retired said...

What's happening in Britain now is what will happen here if the PC movement continues on.

Anonymous said...

@Michelle -- more's the pity. The population that we in the US call "Asian" has such a radically different culture. There's evil everywhere, but it's impossible to imagine an "Asian" (in the American usage) immigrant community engaged in organized evil like this.

Fen said...

"Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist"

Yah thats bs. I enountered a similar mindset (although over lesser issues - harassment & bullying of women) in the SCA (Society For Creative Anachronism).

Its just an excuse to look the other way. They try on excuses like coats, untill they find one that fits. Apparently, the "don't want to be seen as racist" fits these folks very well.

Alexander said...

"If norwegian soldiers can take planes to Afghanistan, then Osama and Mohammed can also take planes to Norway, inshaAllah.

Now, the government must wake up and assume responsibility, before this war spreads to Norway. Before the counterpart reacts. Before moslems take the step necessary.

Do not confuse the moslems’ silence with weakness. Do not profit from the moslems’ patience. Do not force us to do something that can be avoided. This is not a threat, only the words of truth. The words of justice.

A warning that the consequences can be fatal. A warning about a 9/11 on norwegian ground, or larger attacks than the one carried out on 22 july. This is for your own good and in your own best interest.’

We do not want to be a part of norwegian society. And we do not consider it necessary either to move away from Norway, because we were born and grew up here. And Allah’s earth belongs to everybody.

But let Grønland become ours. Bar this city quarter and let us control it the way we wish to do it. This is the best for both parts.

We do not wish to live together with dirty beasts like you."

~ Adherents to the religion of peace, Ansar al-Sunna, August 19, 2012.

Because if there's one nation that is getting its just rewards for its long and widespread history of colonialism in the Middle East, Africa, and Asia, it's Norway.

Cloudbuster said...

"'Asian' is not a euphemism; it's how you say 'Middle Eastern' if you're British."

Still obfuscatory. These men weren't Coptic Christian Middle Easterners, they were Muslim, every last one of them.

Char Char Binks said...

St Croix, you're full of shl+e. You call these people "white"!? I suppose they are, broadly speaking, "Caucasian", but that doesn't make them white; they're not even European. "Caucasian" includes whites, but it doesn't mean "white". It's a term that was designed to include peoples from Iceland to India in a broad category of people who are not black and not "mongoloid". Can you understand how a person can be Caucasian but not white? Or how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares?

gerry said...

I expect we are one or two catastrophes away before there is a openly widespread support in Europe for banning Islam

Won't happen. They'll kill Jews first.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

PB Reader got it in one.

When an allegation of bias from a local imam is enough to end your career or land you in front of a Human Rights tribunal you're more likely to look the other way. After all, it's their custom, right, and we don't want to be culturally imperialistic. The fear of having their judgement called "ugly" certainly played a role here--can't point out obvious facts if reality has a racial/ethnic/religious/cultural tinge, and that's all the excuse some middle manager ensconsed in their comfy office really needs to just move on.
The old GB was comfortable banning suttee because the British believed in thier own moral code and believed it was just to apply it to others. Now it's a sin (!) to beleive one's own culture is superior to anyone else's.

Being accused of racism is a career-ender. Being accused of negligence, or overlooking certain things through the years--those are survivable. What's the rational bureaucrat to do?

Gahrie said...

One must remember that the English are subjects, not citizens. They are used to following orders from their "betters", no matter how insane.

The independent thinkers all moved to Australia and the Americas, and left no descendents behind.

gerry said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
submandave said...

@DS - If you have a hard time imagining an "Asian" (as commonly identified in the U.S.) as engaging in such an enterprise, I recommend you do some research on human trafficking among the Chinese and SEA underground. While their motivation is purely economic (no religious underpinning), the difference in scale is solely due to law enforcement efforts and not scruples.

jaed said...

how on earth to begin to do anything without looking bad

Althouse, the problem they were worried about should they be accused of racism wasn't "looking bad". It was being demoted, being fired, becoming unemployable, and/or ending up jailed for a "racial offense".

How can you not understand, in the second decade of the 21st century, that the consequences of an accusation of racism are serious and can be life-destroying? I would hope anyone would stand up if they believe children are being abused by evil people, consequences or no consequences, but I wouldn't blame people for hesitating. Because a lot more than "looking bad" is at stake for the officer who pushes this.

ErnieG said...

British newspapers have a set of euphemisms they use and everyone knows exactly what they mean. Asian means Pakistani, nothing else. When the say that "The member from North Northwick appeared to be extremely tired" they are saying that he was very drunk in public. When they say that "Mr Smith is assisting the police with their enquiries" they are saying that Mr Smith is under arrest and the police are asking him questions.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

CStanley said...
I've followed a few links to try to get background information on this story but I'm still confused. Who were these children? Were they kidnapped, runaways, or foster kids?


Paco Wové said...

Also, how many perpetrators? I've only heard of 5 people going to jail over this (so far). That's a lot of minors for 5 guys.


The case occurred in 2010, hot on the heels of a similar case in Rochedale. Here's the wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_sex_grooming_case

The majority of the perpetrators were Pakistani men, the victims we white British girls.

This has been a huge problem for Labour, since they pushed for immigration from Pakistan in the 1990's to build up their voter base.

Tank said...

Writing about the NYT article, Steve Sailer sums it up this way:

So, the last six paragraphs were pretty clear to anyone still paying close attention that yes, indeed, political correctness caused massive amounts of statutory rape.

It's pretty much all in the NYT article, but you need a Steve or an Ann to interpret.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

The consequence of too little PC is some hurt feelings and the ability of some jackasses to spout their nonsense in public without official sanction.

The consequence of too much PC is years of abuse and exploitation of vulnerable children by people who take advantage of their "protected" status to avoid sanction.

But yeah, libertarians lack empathy.

Gahrie said...

Won't happen. They'll kill Jews first.

There aren't enough Jews left in Europe to matter. Of the 14 million Jews worldwide, the U.S. has 6.7 million, Israel 6.2 million and the European Union 1.1 million. Many of them are already leaving Europe.

I also forsee a European awakening, rising nativism, and finally some really ugly population cleansing in Europe's future.

gerry said...

they'll just wall off that fact in a corner of their minds, unwilling to look at it lest they offend someone.

Once you've done it for Marxism, you can do it for anything.

n.n said...

Saint Croix:

No, there is not. Each culture has its assortment of degeneracies. Our culture, while not unique (notably China), has seen fit to normalize abortion of human life before birth. We are already tasked with addressing native sins, that we should be concerned with the rate of importing alien sins. In Britain, the rate of immigration has clearly exceeded the rate of assimilation, with respect to religion (i.e. moral philosophy), culture, economy, and resources.

Inkling said...

Don't think "That can't happen here." I know a teacher in school district just south of Seattle who became quite upset. It seem that Samoan was forcing himself into bed with his 14-year-old niece. The girl herself was upset, but the school district was doing nothing about it, claiming the need to tolerate cultural differences.

Mattman26 said...

This reminds me of the Jeffrey Dahmer victim who police encountered staggering (cuz Dahmer had drugged him) on the street, and I think bleeding as well. Dahmer convinced them it was a little gay lover's quarrel, and the police allowed Dahmer to escort him to "safety" (whereupon Dahmer finished torturing him and killed him).

Revenant said...

No-one knows the true scale of child sexual exploitation in Rotherham over the years.

One thing we DO know is that in past scares over child sex slavery, the "conservative estimates" still turned out to be wildly inflated.

It turns out that there aren't actually that many pedophiles, so risking long prison sentences just to service their needs isn't a good money-making opportunity.

hombre said...

'The inquiry team noted fears among council staff of being labelled "racist" if they focused on victims' descriptions of the majority of abusers as "Asian" men.'

"Asian" my ass! Before encountering the identification of the perps as Pakistani, didn't you just know they were Muslim or that staff members thought they were Muslim?

The pommies are increasingly afraid, not of being labeled racist, but of the "wrath of Islam" as in, "O-o-o, let 'em bugger our kids (cut off people's heads, fight for ISIL) as long as we escape the wrath of Islam."

Pathetic and we're next.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Also, must everything European go exactly the way Mark Steyn predicted years ago? That guy knew what he was talking about.

Roy Lofquist said...

The report found: 'Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought as racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.'

Likely they were more nervous about being beheaded on their lunch break.

chillblaine said...

Welcome back crack,
Our dreams were you're ticketed out.

Welcome back crack,
To that same old place that you raged about.

Well the names haven't changed since you hung around,
But those dreams have remained yet you're still around.

Who'd have thought they'd lead ya (Who'd have thought they'd lead ya)
Back here where we need ya (Back here where we need ya)

Yeah we tease you a lot cause you've got us on the spot, welcome back, etc.

Anonymous said...

@Mattman -- that horrible story ties back to the police brutality in Ferguson. The cop who encountered Sinthasomphone on the street, and sent the distressed 14-year-old back to Dahmer to finish his meal, was fired; but reinstated shortly thereafter!!

It is literally impossible in this country to impose consequences on cops. They're absolutely out of control and have been for a long time.

hombre said...

Crack: "Man, it sure is terrible whites started this racist shit, so they can blame it on blacks later."

No big deal that 1400, probably white, kids were sexually abused as long as you get your cheap shots in. Right, race hustler?

wildswan said...

I don't see how "Asian" came into it. The crime was "sex-trafficking minors". The crime was not "Asians sex trafficking minors." "Asians sex trafficking minors" might be a newspaper story but not police work. Enforce British law.

I suppose there is a background in Rotherham where people think that the police decided not to enforce British law in some areas and unchecked sex trafficking in minors was one of the consequences of creating an area dominated by "Asian customs", not British law. But I think that enforcing British law, the known written law, would have widespread support even in "Asian" areas and especially among "Asian" women and girls. You don't have to go into doubtful discourse on "Asian" customs - you have to decide to enforce British law.

Saint Croix said...

muslim men consider women who are not acting in obedience to these rules to be western sluts who deserve to be punished for refusing to abide by Islamic standards.

This is true only for a minority of Muslims. For instance, Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Muslims dominate that country. And yet the freedom to practice religion is protected by law. 10% of the country is Christian. See more here.

Also my experience with Muslims in the US has been nothing but pleasant.

The problem in the UK is that their Muslim population seems to be largely from Pakistan. Unlike Indonesia, the Muslims in Pakistan have been practicing Sharia for decades.

I have a lot of admiration for the spiritual side of Islam. Specifically, I like the Sufis.

In the history of Pakistan you will see strife between the Sufis--who are cool--and the fundamentalists who want their society to follow the Koran as literally as possible.

In the 1970's Pakistan started imposing sharia and indoctrinating their children in Sharia law. That's when we started having trouble with Pakistan.

hombre said...

Crack: "Man, it sure is terrible whites started this racist shit, so they can blame it on blacks later."

No big deal that 1400, probably white, kids were sexually abused as long as you get your cheap shots in. Right, race hustler?

Big Mike said...

I went to the Wikipedia article. A couple things don't add up. First, only 8 men were charged and only 5 convicted with 1400 victims? Either the victim count is wildly overinflated or there are still active Pakistani pedophiles roaming around in Rotherham. Second, the sentences for the five convicted criminals were 11 years, 9, 4.5, 4 and 4. That's all they got for raping underage girls???

Ironclad said...

The Labour politicians in charge of this constituency are resigning like flies, all except the guy in the police who should resign (and was the councilor in charge of children's services there when it happened). "Asian" -aka Pakistani - sex grooming gangs have immunity there because of political laws in Britain than can put you in jail for "abuse" - aka telling the truth.

There was a similar "Trojan Horse" scandal in the Muslim schools in the same area where they got caught trying to turn public financed schools into madrassahs to "educate" their little darlings into the correct way of thinking. Of course, denial, denial when they got caught.

Britain has pretended there is not a problem. I think what they are in for some rough times when their ISIS boys come home and start "civilizing" the infidels at home.

Of course, if you belong to the EDL or any group that has expressed concern - you are a racist of the worst degree. I hope all the people that helped cover this up get sent to jail.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

wildswan said...But I think that enforcing British law, the known written law, would have widespread support even in "Asian" areas and especially among "Asian" women and girls. You don't have to go into doubtful discourse on "Asian" customs - you have to decide to enforce British law.

And if you believed in British law, custom, and values and were confident in their application, that'd be easy. But when you're more worried about being called a racist, or a cultural imperialist and you're not getting too many complaints from that area anyway...it's easier just to look past it. It's easy to say "they should have applied the law and dealt with any subsequent blowback" but it's not you they'd be calling racist; it's not your job and reputation on the line. When you set the incentives such that being called racist is the worst thing...you'll just have to deal with the consequences.

Hollywood defended Polanski but not Gibson.

buwaya said...

Indian problems with Pakistan were ongoing long before the 1970's.
Sunni-Shia-Sufi-Christian-Hindu troubles in Pakistan were there since forever.
Worse now, but thats the same intensification of this state of mind across the world.
Christians in Indonesia have been regularly persecuted since independence. Moreso recently.

hombre said...

Revenant: 'One thing we DO know is that in past scares over child sex slavery, the "conservative estimates" still turned out to be wildly inflated. It turns out that there aren't actually that many pedophiles, so risking long prison sentences just to service their needs isn't a good money-making opportunity.'

Really? How DO we know that? And how DO you know that the Rotherham matter involves pedophilia rather than garden variety sexual exploitation of children?

Does all this condemnation trigger some knee-jerk compulsion in you to bullshit us in the interest of shielding diversity, even if it condones the "custom" of buggering children?

buwaya said...

To expand on the political angle, it seems that the bureaucratic non-response came from explicit orders from middle management. This was apparently the case across several government departments, which means several chains of command. The only conclusion I have, as someone with long experience with corrupt governments, is that orders came down from higher up. Which implies that there are probably quite a few very senior civil servants, on a national level, now implicated. Thats is in addition to, very likely, some members of Tony Blairs and Gordon Brown's governments.

The Drill SGT said...

"Big Mike said...
I went to the Wikipedia article. A couple things don't add up. First, only 8 men were charged and only 5 convicted with 1400 victims? Either the victim count is wildly overinflated or there are still active Pakistani pedophiles roaming around in Rotherham. "

They were pimping the girls to others throughout Yorkshire and the North. It was a sex trafficking gig with a bit of payback to the Man through his daughters (as it were)

PS: Muslims don't immigrate, they colonize. Supported by the process of chain migration through arranged marriages.



buwaya said...

Yes, there have been very few prosecutions because, it seems, the police started investigating seriously only in 2010, except for one earlier case of murder. Not coincidentally that's when the Labour government fell (not that this caused the fall of Labour, rather the fall of Labour seems to have partially removed the block on investigations).
The report indicates that the police and other authorities were not investigating or gathering evidence for use in prosecutions before that.

Aloha Johnny said...

In California, I know the Asian communities are not as heavily policed as the rest of the communities they are in. For example, I have a Vietnamese friend who spoke Vietnamese, Cambodian, French, Thai, Mandarin and Cantonese (former South Vietnam Special Forces) who used to be an Oakland PD volunteer about 15 years ago. He claimed that unless he was helping out, the Oakland PD basically ignored its Chinatown. They had bigger fish to fry, couldn’t talk to many people, the local gangs kept the crime low key and out of site, and a non English speaking Asian knew that if they called the police, not much was going to happen from the police, but retribution would be forthcoming.
Or take San Francisco’s China Town. SF has a much better and more diverse police presence, but you don’t have to spend much time there to get an idea that the level of enforcement of all levels (code, health and safety etc in addition to crime) is much lower.
Not saying it was ok, just that immigrant communities get much less scrutiny. Also see Victor David Hansen’s writing on the central valley of CA, where some communities are basically not lawless.

traditionalguy said...

The dividing line is always between a Protestant Reform theology that sees righteous men as individuals chosen by God who then may volunteer to form a group government compact of limited powers under competent leadership, that is always temporary.

That is where we got the novel conviction that there exist "unalienable Rights" of man that are to be protected first and the temporary hired folks in Government are always alienable. In other words, Kings and their prerogatives are expelled and banned here. Ergo: We own this Continent and no King has a claim here...all claims of Divine Right Kings have been settled forever.

The British are helpless to call the King and her Parliament and Governing Aristocracy on anything. If their government wants its Empire of servants back, even if it has import them to to live among the English commoners, there is no opposition.

buwaya said...

To put the whole thing more generally, the problem here was not political correctness gone mad.
It was deliberate public policy. Political correctness is only an enforcement tool of political power.
Its the same in the US.
Political correctness is manufactured.

n.n said...

Among its other failures, politically correct policies create classes of people (e.g. "minorities") for political exploitation. This leads to coverups of rape in Britain (Norway, etc.), defense of lynch mobs in America (e.g. Ferguson), and selective elevation of local conflicts (e.g. Zimmerman/Martin) to national attention. These policies have a predictable side-effect of nurturing the development of prejudice through stoking anxiety and institutional discrimination. However, that may be a feature, not a defect.

hombre said...

It is a good idea to distinguish between pedophilia, an aberrant preference for sex with children, and opportunistic or thrill seeking sex with children.

Presumably, this ring catered to all types. Why wouldn't they?

Saint Croix said...

According to the Washington Post, 1000 women are stoned to death every year in Pakistan.

83% of Pakistanis support murdering women who commit adultery.

One mom and dad allegedly killed their 15-year-old daughter with acid because they said she looked at a boy and they “feared dishonor.”

“There was a boy who came by on a motorcycle,” her father told BBC. My daughter “turned to look at him twice. I told her before not to do that; it’s wrong. People talk about us.”

The mother added: “She said ‘I didn’t do it on purpose. I won’t look again.’ By then I had already thrown the acid. It was her destiny to die this way.”


I am speechless.

William said...

If Asians are Pakistani, how do you describe the Hindu Indians in Britain. What about the Asians who were born in Uganda and forced into exile by Idi Amin? "Asians" seems such an amorphous term for a particular subset of the population. No one described the Church scandals as a Christian scandal.

Saint Croix said...

If a society is too conservative sexually, you get mothers throwing acid in the face of their daughters for looking at a boy.

If a society is too liberal sexually, you get pregnant 16-year-olds who pay doctors to stab their baby so they can pretend there was no pregnancy.

Seems like there should be a middle ground between these two crazy extremes.

Sexually speaking, what's wrong with the USA in 1965, for instance? Or for that matter, Pakistan in 1965? "The Beatles, Booze, and Bikinis." Sounds nice to me!

Biff said...

MnMark said..."Seems like you ought to be able to find an honest, well-meaning liberal/progressive out there who was not afraid to honestly defend what he advocates."

Senator Joe Lieberman was the last such person in a position of authority. The result? Excommunication and erasure from progressive politics.

buwaya said...

You have to understand that "Pakistan in 1965" only applied to a small subset of the upper class.
The rest of the population probably behaved in much the same way as they do today.

buwaya said...

British journalism has made "Asian" a fuzzy concept. Sometimes "Asian" has applied to Pakistanis, Hindu Indians, subcontinental types from other places (like Uganda or Fiji), or what is now Bangladesh.
Sometimes Hindus and Bangladeshis are referred to separately and "Asian" means just Pakis.
Muslim Pakis and Indians greatly outnumber Hindu and Sikh Indians, by 3:1 or more.
Since Hindus and Sikhs are very rarely criminally troublesome or politically inconvenient, and are in all respects a "model minority", the news has little to say about them.

Saint Croix said...

You have to understand that "Pakistan in 1965" only applied to a small subset of the upper class. The rest of the population probably behaved in much the same way as they do today.

I am not an expert on Pakistan, but from what I have read, Islamic societies were way more liberal and secular 50 years ago. Did you click through the photo montage? "Teenagers Swarm Airport Bars Beatle McCartheney Mobbed."

That doesn't seem like a society that was stoning girls for looking at a boy.

I think Wahhabi oil money is responsible for a lot of this poison. And that's a recent phenomenon.

FullMoon said...

How does this scandal compare to the Catholic Priest scandal in the U.S.?
Abusive Catholic Priests are mostly homosexuals as was Sandusky.
There are more abusive teachers than Priests and less media exposure.
Also, I would expect the "Asian" abuse is more about hate than about physical or emotional attraction.
.

jaed said...

It turns out that there aren't actually that many pedophiles

Pedophiles are not in question here. The victimized girls, so far as I can tell from news accounts, were in their teens when the rape and pimping out began. Minors, but not children.

buwaya said...

Airports, Beatles, records, electricity were all things restricted to the very upper class in all these places.
A typical village in Punjab in 1965 even a few miles from Islamabad wouldn't have had electricity, record players, a school, or anyone who had ever been to an airport.

Roy Lofquist said...

Buwaya,

I was in Peshawar, Pakistan during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Unlike other places I "visited" in the Middle East and Africa, you never ventured outside the base alone and never after dark.

buwaya said...

Peshawar is in Pathan country.
Always has been dangerous.
Punjab, Sindh, etc. were always safer.

Charles Crawford said...

The key point to grasp here is that Rotherham is in a glum de-industrialising part of the northern UK and has been a Labour Party seat since 1933(!).

It is in effect a 'rotten borough'. Everyone involved - police, elected local councillors, community leaders, social services and all bureaucrats - are somehow close to or linked to the Labour Party and its state-funded patronage. Its MP when all this was happening was an FCO junior Minister who later went to prison briefly for expenses fraud

In these circumstances, no-one will have dared rock the local boat lest the scandal spread outwards and upwards and somehow threaten the Labour Party's existential claim to minority community votes, there and beyond.

This is how it works here. If a notable problem arises in a minority community the so-called community leaders offer to solve it and the police and social services have an excuse to look away for a quiet life. A Labour woman MP once told me how she had been told by the national party leadership not to press the issue of forced arranged marriages for Muslims, even though Muslim women in her constituency were begging her to help.

That's why the threat of being denounced as 'racist' is so effective. It puts a sort of phoney emotional-political force-field round awful behaviour by threatening tribunals, reports, process and goodness knows what else. Who needs all that? The very mechanisms set up by the state to tackle unfairness end up being used to promote it. QED

Sounds familiar to US readers?

Lewis Wetzel said...

The problem with PC, if that is what allowed the Rotherham situation to metastasize, is that it is an essential part of the Progressive Project. Pull hard enough on that thread and the whole thing unravels.

William said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
William said...

This would be a much, much bigger story if the races were reversed.

Big Mike said...

@Drill SGT, so (1) why only 8 individuals brought to trial, with only 5 convictions; (2) why such relatively short sentences; and (3) what sort of perverted adults find adolescent girls sexually attractive anyway?

GW said...

There's another aspect to this that says more about the prevailing culture than even the political correctness that allowed this to happen. Where were the fathers? Why do we not hear of any direct justice? True, this may be a failure of the social worker system, but first and foremost, it's an issue of family and parents. Has everything gone rotten in Britain?

Lewis Wetzel said...

"Has everything gone rotten in Britain?"
What you are seeing in Britain is the result of a century of warfare on the middle and working classes by the intellectual elite.
If you think it is not happening here, compare the American elite's treatment of Sarah Palin and Joe Biden.

buwaya said...

Where were the fathers ?
Well, they were there apparently in a couple of cases, trying to get their daughters away from the pimps.
Bu the police prevented it.
As for most of them, consider that we are talking of girls mainly from the lowest social class in a poor city, the "white trash" of Britain, which has more of it proportionately than does the US.
To get a better picture of this, look for "Life at the Bottom", T Dalrymple.

n.n said...

Terry:

I think you are describing the best case scenario. In the current situation, the ball of yarns (pun intended) is wound so tightly, that pulling on loose threads will either fail to slacken the threads or cause a catastrophic failure. The contrast of popular treatment between Palin and Biden, or Obama for that matter, is exemplary of the status quo some people would like to preserve and exploit. It reeks of elitism; but, even worse, it obscures ulterior motives.

TDP said...

"I'd like to see more detail about this "fear of being thought as racist." It sounds like a confession of deliberate law enforcement paralysis...".

It sounds that way, because effectively, it is that way.

The UK is further down the PC drain than America - because they started earlier.

Peter Hitchens, (Christopher’s brother) explained his experience as a hard leftist who was deeply involved in the effort to 'fundamentally transform' Britain and the real reasons the British Left pushed their version of "immigration reform":

"When I was a Revolutionary Marxist, we were all in favour of as much immigration as possible. It wasn’t because we liked immigrants, but because we didn’t like Britain.

We saw immigrants - from anywhere - as allies against the staid, settled, conservative society that our country still was....

Also, we liked to feel oh, so superior to the bewildered people who found their neighbourhoods suddenly transformed into supposedly ‘vibrant multicultural communities’.

If they dared to express the mildest objections, we called them bigots."

PC + rampant immigration = rape, both figuratively of the nation and literally of children and women.

Lewis Wetzel said...

n.n.-
John Carey, in The Intellectuals And The Masses: Pride and Prejudice Among the Literary Intelligensia, 1880-1939, makes a good argument that since the turn of the century the intellectual elites have been working diligently to fill the space left by the disintegration of the old European aristocracy. Once you see it, it is hard to un-see it.

Mattman26 said...

EDH, I remember covering the chapati pan case in law school, and one of my classmates, bless his heart, was a little unclear on the term "buggered," and commented "Well he said the guy was bugging him, but that's no reason to kill him!"

Revenant said...

Really? How DO we know that? And how DO you know that the Rotherham matter involves pedophilia rather than garden variety sexual exploitation of children?

You'll have to explain, sometime, how it is that you differentiate between pedophilia and "garden-variety" kid-fucking.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Diversity Is Our Strength.

n.n said...

Terry:

Unfortunately, I haven't observed a better outcome with intellectual elites vs economic elites vs religious elites vs autocratic elites. They each claim a superior, almost divine, ability to manage the chaos. Their arrogance precedes them. The optimal outcome seems to be the result of some combination thereof, including us "common" folks.

n.n said...

Pedophilia denotes an orientation and behavior. The "garden-variety" alternative is an opportunistic behavior, which may or may not include a psychological factor.

Kirk Parker said...

St. Croix,

"For instance, Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Muslims dominate that country. And yet the freedom to practice religion is protected by law. 10% of the country is Christian."

Tell that to the Sulawesian Christians who have been under sustained assault by their Muslim "neighbors".

Kirk Parker said...

Big Mike,

" Either the victim count is wildly overinflated or there are still active Pakistani pedophiles roaming around in Rotherham. "

The latter. Duh.

"Second, the sentences for the five convicted criminals were 11 years, 9, 4.5, 4 and 4. That's all they got for raping underage girls??? "

Yep. Welcome to the Country Where Great Britain Used To Be.

Anonymous said...

The grooming gangs.

The UK is overwhelmingly atheistic/agnostic.
And yet, in only a few years literally thousands of children have been abused, and abused for years, by the muslim grooming gangs. Basically since Labour started to govern after John Major.
A Labour party who were, together with the Social Services and Police Forces, and not to forget the whole "muslim community" complicit in pedophilia on a massive scale.

And this is not the only thing.
When I started reading about these things I came upon a comment of a mother of four daughters, living near Bradford. According to her it her all her daughters were sexually solicited by muslim schoolmates during their time at school. It even happened while they were with their mother on the street. It was just a fact of live. They survived unscathed, many others didn't.

So, do the fact of the grooming gangs force "secular" society to look into a mirror, ask itself why those children were and are so easy victims, what did they learn in school. Didn't they even get a basic morality just for self-protection? As far as I can see "secular" society has no time or desire for introspection.

My conclusion;
- a comparable abuse happens in every European country "graced" by muslim immigrants
- the abuse in "secular" society is on a whole different scale than the pederast abuse within the CC ever was.
- the abuse in the CC is for the CC a real scandal because it goes against everything the CC stands for. The massive abuse in the "secular" society, a scandal for the "secular" society? Not so much.
- it shows the absolute moral bankruptcy of "modern society"
- and it brings home the fact that the modern feminist is the most vile, sick, hypocritical creature that ever lived.
- ...

Nichevo said...

Oh, THAT'S why they invented necklacing.

Nichevo said...

So, St, what you're saying is, you're good with this. Because abortion.

John Cunningham said...

can there be any doubt that Muslims are scum who should be expelled from Western nations en masse? let them wallow in their own evil in their own sh#thole countries.