August 11, 2014

"No one in their right mind wants to carry a loaded firearm in public or have one around the house."

"The chances that you will kill or injure yourself or someone you know are far greater than that you will shoot a 'bad guy.' According to the Brady Campaign, a gun in the home is 22 times more likely to kill or injure a family member in a domestic argument, accident or suicide than it is to be used to stop an intruder. Wanting to carry a concealed weapon indicates a level of paranoia or poor judgment that is unfortunate in a private citizen, but in my view, absolutely disqualifying in a person who wants to be Wisconsin's top law enforcement official."

From a column by Madison's former Mayor Dave Cieslewicz, denouncing Jefferson County District Attorney Susan Happ, a candidate for for Wisconsin attorney general in tomorrow's Democratic Party primary, because she applied for a concealed carry permit.

63 comments:

Jack Wayne said...

The snake eating its own tail.

viator said...

"Detroit has experienced 37 percent fewer robberies in 2014 than during the same period last year, 22 percent fewer break-ins of businesses and homes, and 30 percent fewer carjackings. Craig attributed the drop to better police work and criminals being reluctant to prey on citizens who may be carrying guns.

“Criminals are getting the message that good Detroiters are armed and will use that weapon,” said Craig, who has repeatedly said he believes armed citizens deter crime. “I don’t want to take away from the good work our investigators are doing, but I think part of the drop in crime, and robberies in particular, is because criminals are thinking twice that citizens could be armed."

Detroit News

Just Mike said...

No one in their right mind could believe that statement

Skyler said...

"According to the Brady Campaign . . ." is not a good way to start a factual debate.

SteveR said...

I like how he transitions from some statistics about guns in the home to an opinion about a person getting a CCW permit. As if they are equally valid.

garage mahal said...

I think I'm going to vote for Happ tomorrow. Richards had a very lame response on pot decriminalization.

richard mcenroe said...

If you want to be afraid when someone carries a gun in public, hit the dirt whenever you see an armed cop.

You would not believe what bad shots so many cops are, nor how badly their departments train them.

Ralph Hyatt said...

A district attorney, especially one that is a woman, who doesn't carry a concealed weapon is the one showing poor judgment.

The Drill SGT said...

I'm with Ralph. She wants to be as the opponent says" The Chief Law Enforcement Officer."



mesquito said...

Democrats need concealed weapons to protect themselves from deranged tea-partiers, doncha know.

But really. I have 7 or 8 guns IN MY HOME not because I like to shoot or or I'm into firearms or I actually went out out and bought them. I have them through inheritance and happenstance and whatnot.

Scott M said...

Craig attributed the drop to better police work and criminals being reluctant to prey on citizens who may be carrying guns.

I only know two people recently that live in Detroit. Both women. Both packing anytime they leave the house. Both are long-time Democrat voters. One actually believes that nobody should ever be able to make more than 10 million a year in after-tax income. Seems her self-interest in not being accosted, injured, or killed overrides her other more liberal views of the world.

Rumpletweezer said...

The former mayor is the voice of invincible irrationality.

MadisonMan said...

I understand why all the Democrats opposed Act 10.

I also understand how they think this opposition works in their favor for their non-Union constituents when I think of how much money and in-kinds they get from Union donations vs. from non-union.

The person I *won't* vote for is from the Dane County DA office. My opinion of that office sank like a rock the one time I sat on a jury. Boy they hire dim bulbs.

lgv said...

She is obviously of unsound mind,therefore should be committed to a mental institution, let alone elected to office.

As a matter of fact, since no one in their right mind wants to carry...., anyone who even applies for a concealed carry permit should immediately be involuntarily committed to a mental institution.

madAsHell said...

Does he have a "No weapons" sign on his front door??
I'll bet not.

PB Reader said...

The same argument can be made that police officers shouldn't carry weapons.

Bob Ellison said...

For gun-control enthusiasts, innumeracy runs wild, like a wild thing running wild in a wild place.

Confusing correlation with causation is logic itself.

My slogan is: Guns don't kill people. Killer whales kill people! People driving cars, too. That is, they kill people. That is, the drivers sometimes kill people. Oh, crap, this slogan is too long and too poorly written. Never mind.

Big Mike said...

I'd like to see the raw data for the Brady campaign's assertion, and determine whether or not it includes all of the episodes where an armed individual fought off an intruder or came to the rescue of someone being assaulted, or whether it cherry-picks its data.

What I am certain of is that the Brady statistics do not include cases where the homeowner merely brandished the gun and the intruder fled, or the gun was fired but the intruder fled without being wounded. (The Clintonesque wording is the giveaway.)

I am also certain that it does count situations where an ex-husband or ex-boyfriend threatened a woman, and she was unable to acquire a handgun of her own to defend herself as being an instance where the "gun in the home" was used to "kill or injure a family member."

averagejoe said...

Progressive democrat party logic= It's unthinkable that someone involved in law enforcement wants to carry a gun...

traditionalguy said...

What. Another liberal that's not in her right mind. Ho,hum.



K in Colorado said...

The very first thing that came to mind when I read this was "What an as-ole!"

Yes, we can't have the peasantry armed and dangerous, can we.

Zach said...

Using the Brady campaign's methods:

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html

Beach Brutus said...

Possessing firearms and a CCW permit evidence a paranoia or lust for violence no more than regularly wearing a safety belt means you have a lust to drive recklessly or a desire to have an wreck.

m stone said...

"..22 times more likely to kill or injure a family member in a domestic argument, accident or suicide than it is to be used to stop an intruder..."

The number is probably true, but deceptive considering the remote possibility of an intruder. Unless you live in Detroit or St. Louis...

But it only takes one time for an intruder to strike.

James Pawlak said...


A.

B.
C.

viator said...

Criminals prey on the weak, avoid the strong. Who would have thunk it?

James Pawlak said...

A recent study from the "Centers For Disease Control" demonstrate that armed citizens are generally useful in suppressing crime AND reduce the "chances" of a target of criminal attacks of being murdered or maimed Vs. that of an unarmed citizen.

Paul said...

Guess that means Brad Pitt, George Clooney, Sen. Barbra Boxer, Marc Anthony, Robert De Niro, Donald Trump,David Wright, Alexis Stewart, and alot of other liberals who pack heat and have CCWs, are also considered to be nuts by this guy.

Ops... but I bet he loves 'em to as they are super liberals like himself so he gives them a pass.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

Yeah, good point buddy, why would a DA want to carry a concealed weapon for her own defense? Must be paranoia, I guess.

[Seems like this post is missing a War on Women tag.]

Lauderdale Vet said...

I have 3 fire extinguishers in my home. My family knows where they are, and how to use them.

Am I paranoid about fire, or simply prepared?

tim maguire said...

That's a neat trick how the statistic that a gun is more likely to kill a family member than an intruder (with suicides thrown in for obvious reasons) morphs into you are more like to injure a family member than an intruder.

So a statistic that depends on you not considering that most guns used to stop crimes don't kill anybody is used to make a claim that includes all those nobodies you're not supposed to even think about.

Freeman Hunt said...

I would think that anyone with that job should have a concealed carry permit.

Abdul Abulbul Amir said...


Well your bathtub is about 250 times more likely to kill or injure you or a family member than stop an intruder. That makes a firearm in the home ten times as safe according to the Brady bunch.

More to the point, we have fairly good numbers on homicide and suicide. Dead bodies are easy to count and there is bureaucracy dedicated to doing just that. Not so for stopping intruders.

Michael K said...

It's interesting that people, especially politicians, are so limited in imagination and so focused on ideology that they can't see reality.

Republicans are about taxes and Democrats are about social issues, like abortion and guns and healthcare.

At Chicago Boyz, we've been talking about what happens if Ebola doesn't stay in Africa . I doubt there is a Democrat, or maybe a Republican, politician who thinks about it. The issue is not if, but when and how bad.

Moose said...

I think you overlook the value that Madison serves keeping Liberals off the streets in the remainder of Wisconsin and making live more livable elsewhere in the state. Hurrah for Madison!

John said...

Bob Said
Guns don't kill people. Killer whales kill people! People driving cars, too.

But the really serious problem is killer whales driving cars. That's what you need to watch out for.

They have no depth perception out of the water and if they hit you, they will eat you rather than waiting for the cops.

John Henry

hombre said...

I'll bet Madison City Hall has security at the entrance because mayors actually think they're at risk. DAs, on the other hand, actually are at risk.

hombre said...

mesquito wrote: "But really. I have 7 or 8 guns IN MY HOME ...."

Do you hear someone pounding on your door?

Sigivald said...

Thus... policemen are insane?

Noted.

(Further, when you're relying on the Brady Campaign for statistics you need to triple or quadruple check them.

Note that the "22 times" canard has been mocked by more aware people as far back as 2007, and it wasn't true then, in any meaningful sense.

(See also, here - "insulated from criticism by the simple expedient of not publishing the research data".)

All Brady/VPC/Moms have left is lies, or to be most charitable, unreliable delusions and idees fixee.)

Leon said...

well look at me i must be plumb crazy.

kcom said...

Perhaps I'm 22 times more comfortable accidentally shooting myself than I am allowing a stranger to kick in my door and shoot me. Values vary. Get your own.

chillblaine said...

Opposition to responsible gun ownership has always been a winning electoral strategy for the Democrats.

I suggest a new campaign aimed at unmarried women.

"I'm Unarmed - And I Vote!"

traditionalguy said...

John Henry is jumping the killer whale...he is outdoing my brand of humor.

pst314 said...

Dave Cieslewicz is a member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which, if it were honest, would call itself Mayors For Making All Guns Illegal.

n.n said...

The statistics don't lie, a gun is an effective means to kill or injure another human being. So, how often are guns used by individuals to kill or cause injury?

Let's see. Around 500,000 killed or injured by weapon or force. Around 14,000 killed or injured by a firearm. Over 1,000,000 killed or injured by poison, knife, or force in planned abortions.

Make life, not abortion.

Sam L. said...

FEAR! PANIC! Inability to COPE! Dems gots probs. Bummmmmmmmmmmmmer.

Lorenzo said...

"No one in their right mind wants to carry a loaded firearm in public or have one around the house."

Please rescue our President from the out-of-their-minds Secret Service Agents who surround him constantly.

geokstr said...

Even though he is one of the enemy, I'll bet "Cieslewicz" is a great Scrabble player. It's obvious why. The Czechs and Poles know how to use all the really good letters.

I'm Czech and spent my teenage years on da Sout' Side of Milvaukee. His name is a lot easier to spell and pronounce than most of my friends' back then, what with the above average number of vowels in it.

Which is why we hate the Polynesians, especially the Hawaiians. They took all the damn vowels.

Of course, that wouldn't be enough to get me to vote for him, even if I still lived in WI.

Oh, wait...that's not a requirement in WI anymore - at least for Democrats.

Fred Drinkwater said...

Does the mayor have armed protection?

Achilles said...

In the past century People are 10000 times more likEly to be killed by a socialist government than be killed by an individual with a gun. I can see why people think we are crazy.

n.n said...

No one in their right mind would reduce the risk and lower the opportunity cost to commit crimes by denying law-abiding members of society access to reasonable means for self-defense, safety, and security.

The government's only legitimate concern is that the people it serves do not abuse their rights in order to violate other people's rights without cause or due process. The authority granted to the government is conservatively reactive, not liberally proactive. Our society's laws are based on a presumption of innocence, not guilt.

Anonymous said...

The way ISIS and associated vermin is going, and considering the theological justification they get from islam and the shielding they get from so called "moderate" muslims, and considering their quislings, the left, having a gun in the house may well become essential for survival.

Btw, I'm European, so not much luck for me here.

fbsakamoto said...

Well he also penned a recent article about how bicycle riders obey traffic laws more so than automobile drivers. He must not live in Madison.

Brando said...

It is amazing how gun control extremists view gun ownership--they cannot fathom that there may be legitimate reasons to wish to own a gun or be able to carry it concealed. Most likely they don't actually know any concealed carry permit holders, because they have the stereotype of being paranoid and irresponsible when in fact concealed carriers tend to be the most careful and law abiding people out there--far more than the general public.

The desire to maintain safeguards for gun ownership to ensure gun safety training or prevent resale into illegal markets is one thing. The sneering disdain towards gun owners on the other hand just demonstrates the worst of the gated community mentality. I live in a safe place and think I have no need of a gun--so why should anyone else want one, unless they're paranoid and dangerous themselves? This is the cultural divide.

As someone who lives in a relatively murder-y city and has to drive through the worst parts of it, it's galling to read these bloviating popinjays pronounce from their ivory towers that anyone wanting to defend themselves is mentally unfit to hold office. Maybe they should move to a slum for a while and hope the local thugs can be reasoned with.

Ann Althouse said...

"Well he also penned a recent article about how bicycle riders obey traffic laws more so than automobile drivers. He must not live in Madison."

If speed limits count, then it becomes easy. People speed all the time in cars, almost never on bikes.

NotquiteunBuckley said...

It is absurd to talk about how many laws people break everyday.

This is without including the tax code.

This is because no person could understand all the laws a person breaks on any given day, even if given many months to research it, as most people traveling on bike or car go through different locales each with different laws, including statutes hundreds of years old nobody has thought of in decades.

Plus, the D.A. can charge you anything they want, indict you right before the ham sammy who made the D.A. a fat POS, and then charge you with unlimited other laws you break while trying to defend yourself from the original charge.

Law breaking is dynamic in the eyes of our all-seeing justice system.

"But the movie shows that Swartz and his supporters failed to question premises when he encountered the criminal justice system. Most people make that mistake. When Swartz's friend Quinn Norton talks about being interrogated by the FBI, she is outraged that they seem indifferent and bored when presented with facts that don't fit their worldview. Norton accepted the premise that law enforcement is trying to find out what really happened, rather than gathering facts to support their version of events. She seems shocked that the FBI agents lied to her repeatedly as they questioned her; she did not appear to question the premise that the government tells the truth. Swartz's backers were enthused when JSTOR announced it was not pressing for charges against him; they did not question the premise that the criminal justice system acts based on what alleged victims need or want. Swartz's friends express disbelief that the federal government would spend resources to prosecute him rather than on far more worthy cases; they do not question the premise that the system makes rational decisions based on resource allocation. Swartz's allies are shocked that AUSA Stephen Heymann says things like "stealing is stealing" and "all hackers are alike"; they don't question the premise that the government's stated motives are its actual motives, or that the system cares whether it is right."

Shanna said...

A district attorney, especially one that is a woman, who doesn't carry a concealed weapon is the one showing poor judgment.

This was my exact thought. Lord knows who that lady deals with and what threats she has gotten. Not this ex mayor guy. What a jerk.

Fen said...

"Detroit has experienced 37 percent fewer robberies in 2014 than during the same period last year, 22 percent fewer break-ins of businesses and homes, and 30 percent fewer carjackings"

I don't trust those numbers. Big cities like Detroit and Chicago have been caught massaging the stats to make their cities look less violent to potential homebuyers.

Michael The Magnificent said...

I have a CCW, and I will admit it's not a joy to carry in public for a long list of reasons. Therefore, I don't carry for the shear joy of carrying a loaded firearm in public. I carry because violent crime occurs when and where you expect it, as well as when and where you don't.

When I lived in Brown Deer, one of the local gas stations put up a bullet-resistant glass barrier. I'd been in there hundreds of times during my life and never witnessed an armed robbery, so I had just assumed it never occurred. So I asked. It turns out it occurred often enough that the owner invested many thousands of dollars on the barrier - thousands of dollars I'm sure the owner would have rather spent on something else.

You would be shocked to know how many armed robberies and assaults have occurred in the places you visit every day, and have just been lucky enough to not be caught up in it so you are unaware of it's occurrence.

No one in their right mind can deny that lunatics shoot up schools, churches, and diners. No one in their right mind can deny that criminals kill, rape, and maim friends, family, and strangers, often without provocation or warning. And no one in their right mind believes that it is practical for each of us to carry a cop, rather than a firearm.

But then, when you live in 30 square miles surrounded by reality the term "right mind" takes on a whole new meaning.

Rusty said...

Fen said...
"Detroit has experienced 37 percent fewer robberies in 2014 than during the same period last year, 22 percent fewer break-ins of businesses and homes, and 30 percent fewer carjackings"

I don't trust those numbers. Big cities like Detroit and Chicago have been caught massaging the stats to make their cities look less violent to potential homebuyers.

The Chief Of Police in Detroit has been encouraging citizens to arm themselves.

Big Mike said...

Interesting discussion about concealed carry here. Bottom line, as the author (a firearms instructor) notes: of 64 students and former students of his involved in gunfights, the score is 62 wins (individual survived) and 2 people who were unarmed at the time and lost their lives. Those are real people in real situations, not made up Brady bunch statistics.

Big Mike said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Greg said...

If former Mayor Cieslewicz doesn't want to carry a firearm then he shouldn't, but to deny another law-abiding citizen of her right for self-protection because she is running for AG is just wrong. If anything, running for office gives her more need to take her self-defense into her own hands.