Althouse: "I think the idea of the 'manly-man' appeals to the far right and not really to the rest of us."

August 1, 2014

"I think the idea of the 'manly-man' appeals to the far right and not really to the rest of us."

"To me it's kind of a twisted concept of maleness. Not a protector or a dynamic kind of pizzaz but a bully. Putin is a good example of it. People's lives don't matter to him. Power matters to him. Who's the top dog? That's what I think machismo is all about. It's like Saddam Hussein. It's all about a pecking order and who is on top. Pretty boring really. Who has the biggest......weapon :-)"

Said Sunsong in the comments to last night's post linking to Adam Gopnik's New Yorker piece about overemphasis on manliness in a President. That comment made me think of this scene in Charlie Chaplin's "The Great Dictator":

By the way, my father once opined that that was the greatest moment in all of movies. He wasn't a big moviegoer, though, so there were many scenes he missed, but he loved that one because it said the pithiest possible thing about politics, and it says it completely in the visuals, though it's not a silent film.

There is dialogue, but it's almost only background music for the ears — "a barber shop... that also has glass walls... oh, yes, with goldfish swimming inside... they're all dead, that's why I'm building a new barbershop...."

67 comments:

The Crack Emcee said...: "I think the idea of the 'manly-man' appeals to the far right and not really to the rest of us."

Not true - women still dig it - especially when they need us.

"To me it's kind of a twisted concept of maleness."

That rings dumb - it's maleness incarnate. Not metrosexual, not gay, not effeminate, but the real thing.

"Not a protector or a dynamic kind of pizzaz but a bully."

Ah - that's why, when I conceived of The Macho Response, I worked from the image of men I knew in the neighborhood. Admirable men who didn't back down. Not these morons I see out in the rest of the country.

"Putin is a good example of it."

Yep - but not of machismo - do you hear these idiots every time he starts killing? "Now THAT's a Man!" they crow, "Why can't Obama be more like that?"

Few black Americans want to be like that.

"People's lives don't matter to him."

Yep - Just as other people's lives don't matter to white conservatives.

"Power matters to him."

Yep - Just like white conservatives.

"Who's the top dog? That's what I think machismo is all about."

Boy, you must hang with some FUCKED UP dudes - or white conservative males.

"It's like Saddam Hussein."

The resemblance is uncanny - especially around the belt line.

"It's all about a pecking order and who is on top."

AND THAT MUST BE WHITE PEOPLE OR ALL IS LOST!!!!

"Pretty boring really. Who has the biggest......weapon :-)"

That game is only being played by A) gay guys who trick stupid straight guys into showing their cocks B) guys with little dicks who "wonder" and C) terrified, insecure, piss ant white guys with attitude,...; 8/1/14, 8:21 AM
rcocean said...: Gopnik. Sorry, just can't get past the name. Makes anything he write seem suspect. Gopnik, popnik, slopnik, flopnik, good grief.

Need a name change Adam.; 8/1/14, 8:35 AM
Michael K said...: The only "manly" characteristics preferred by the left are dykes.; 8/1/14, 8:37 AM
rcocean said...: BTW, anything the New Yorker says about "The Right" - sorry - "FAR Right" is prima facie absurd, biased and irrelevant.

But there is a certain "macho" type that exists in the Republican party. Johnny McCain is the perfect example. Always, thumping his chest about how we should invade Libya on Tuesday, Syria on Wednesday, and Russia on the Weekend.; 8/1/14, 8:39 AM
chillblaine said...: "I think the idea of the 'manly-man' appeals to the far right and not really to the rest of us."

Men who are manly, not appealing. Ok, got it.

Everything should be fine until your kid needs to be pulled out of a burning building, or your shit is getting all over your bathroom floor.

People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.; 8/1/14, 8:42 AM
Anonymous said...: Crazy Street Corner Guy Off His Meds Says:

The girls in their springtime skirts and their springtime shorts walk past Harvey Keitel and you can see them falter in his presence, and it is not just because he is staring at them hard and masturbating: they are both attracted to, and fearful of, his overwhelming Essence of Man. Harvey has said that he can split a hymen just by thinking about it, his Force of Will is that strong. The women sense this and little beads of sweat appear on their upper lips. Sometimes I think you could cut off Harvey's arm and another Keitel would grow fully formed from it, like a starfish.; 8/1/14, 8:46 AM
Ann Althouse said...: Adam Gopnik is quite aware that he has a funny name. Here's a funny article he wrote about it. Excerpt:

Gopnik. It has a strange sound, and an ugly look. It manages to be at once starkly plain and extremely uninteresting, boringly unadorned and yet oddly difficult to say. Despite the stark, Orcish simplicity of its syllables, it manages to be hard to pronounce. "Golnik" or "Gotnik" people say, swallowing or spitting out the middle consonant....

It's not just a funny name. It has become, in the Russia from which it originally hails, an almost obscenely derogatory expression. A gopnik in Russian, and in Russia, is now a drunken hooligan, a small-time lout, a criminal without even the sinister glamour of courage. When Russian people hear my last name, they can barely conceal a snigger of distaste and disgusted laughter. Those thugs who clashed with Polish fans at Euro 2012? All gopniks - small G. And I'm told that it derives from an acronym for public housing, rather than from our family's Jewish roots, but no difference....

The irony, the final irony, is that my kind of essay writing (a lot of it anyway) depends on finding meanings in minutiae of sensation, which is just where the tragedy of a name like mine resides....; 8/1/14, 8:50 AM
Kevin Walsh said...: So that's where Bugs Bunny got this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woH0Nhbc-fc; 8/1/14, 9:02 AM
khesanh0802 said...: Gopnik is confusing lack of leadership with lack of manliness. Yes, the preponderance of great political leaders have historically been men. There have been plenty of women who have exhibited excellent leadership skills, but their political role - to date - has been limited.
These are the traits that the Marine Corps characterizes a "leadership traits". It's a pretty good list - and a lot to live up to! None of these traits is exclusively masculine. Read the list closely and you will have a better grasp of why Obama, and most politicians, make us uncomfortable.; 8/1/14, 9:12 AM
Ron said...: Why is it when I see these pieces, I suspect the subtext is always "How do we contort anything in culture so that Obama comes out looking on the correct side of history?"; 8/1/14, 9:12 AM
Anonymous said...: It's all about a pecking order and who is on top.

As an ineffectual and therefore wise man summed it up: "I won".; 8/1/14, 9:16 AM
richard mcenroe said...: The manly men of NYC walked out of the dust cloud of the survivors and then turned around and went back in looking for survivors. The Glopniks of Christopher Street and Brooklyn-under-the-bridge rushed to write about how traumatized their sensibilities were by the tragedy.

Two points for which kind you want around when the lights go out.; 8/1/14, 9:19 AM
rhhardin said...: Manly is taken narrowly and men is taken broadly.

Broadly would include Obama.; 8/1/14, 9:22 AM
chuck said...: "Not really to the rest of us"

I've known several manly-men, and they certainly appeal to women. And no, they weren't bullies. That is just a smear by the unmanly to justify their lack of manliness.; 8/1/14, 9:35 AM
richard mcenroe said...: Sorry, that should have been "dust cloud of the Towers"; 8/1/14, 9:46 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: Ron,

"Why is it when I see these pieces, I suspect the subtext is always "How do we contort anything in culture so that Obama comes out looking on the correct side of history?""

Because you have a mental block that doesn't allow for you to grasp you have a mental block.

Or that you're on the wrong side of history.

Don't feel bad:

I didn't vote for him either,...; 8/1/14, 9:57 AM
Anonymous said...: 7 Manly Virtues
Manliness
Industry
Resolution
Self-Reliance
Discipline
Courage
Honor

I was going to write about how most bullies don't possess many of these characteristics. I had wondered if the type of manly man he's thinking of is the professional poseur. Someone like a rapper or pro wrestler who is publicly all mouth and no brain as part of an act. It being that he doesn't realize its an act.

Then I looked at the list a little closer and actually thought about it. Nearly all the successful bullies I know professionally and in public life, executives and politicians mostly, are strong on the first five characteristics. I wouldn't use courageous to describe many of them but stubborn and brave could apply in many cases. None of the people I can think of appear to have a real sense of honor.; 8/1/14, 9:58 AM
CStanley said...: @Kevin Walsh- I thought of "The Rabbit of Seville" (perhaps the best cartoon of all time, IMO.)

Bugs was good at this stuff- instead of hectoring, his character demonstrated that cleverness could win out. Come to think of it, Obama could have been a good Bugs...if only he actually possessed the cleverness that he and his supporters think he has.; 8/1/14, 10:04 AM
Fen said...: That is just a smear by the unmanly to justify their lack of manliness.

Nailed it.

More John Wayne, less Woody Allen; 8/1/14, 10:06 AM
Big Mike said...: People's lives don't matter to him. Power matters to him. Who's the top dog?

I beg your pardon, Madame Professor, but doesn't that describe Obama every bit as much as Putin?; 8/1/14, 10:07 AM
Michael said...: There are grown up men and there are men who have never grown up. It is generally easy to tell the difference and one is not necessarily more "macho" than the other. In fact the "macho" is generally a mask worn by those who have never quite grown up and become adult men. Anyone who would try to politicize the difference between grown up men and adolescent men has, as the lefties used to say, issues.; 8/1/14, 10:17 AM
Birkel said...: Street theater like that attempted by our Resident Racist is boring unless the act changes in ways that interest or excite. Banging the same bongo drum repeatedly in the same way cannot be entertaining. My advice: learn a new song with a different beat.; 8/1/14, 10:19 AM
Known Unknown said...: Without Manly Men, no one would be able to enjoy nor tolerate this world.; 8/1/14, 10:30 AM
The Drill SGT said...: richard mcenroe said...
The manly men of NYC walked out of the dust cloud of the survivors and then turned around and went back in looking for survivors.

Rick Rescorla was a Mensch!; 8/1/14, 10:32 AM
mccullough said...: Putin is a caricature of manliness. Like Napoleon was.

Audie Murphy exemplified manliness, and he was 5'1 and 100 lbs. As a somewhat recent pop culture reference, the first Captain America movie had manliness as a theme and handles it pretty well. A small guy who stands up to bullies and displays exceptional bravery and compassion is the best one to handle superpowers.; 8/1/14, 10:36 AM
Anonymous said...: I think we can all agree that Sunsung's idea of a manly man is a woman.

This makes Obama our first female President.

When she sees a picture of Putin with a large cat, she shrieks and runs and gets the vapors. When she see's Obama with a poodle she giggles and thinks, "ahhhhhh".

Because in this world, manly men have died to protect her and she can sleep safe at night in her bed dreaming of men who behave like women.; 8/1/14, 10:42 AM
Sal said...: "I think the idea of the "manly-man" appeals to the far right and not really to the rest of us."

You first have to define "far-right". From your perspective, is it 2% of the population? Or 50%. Or maybe 80%?; 8/1/14, 10:44 AM
Anonymous said...: It's telling that the adjective "manly" is employed here when there is an endles list of nouns and adjectives - braggart, egotist, pompous, self-important asshole, blustering, swaggerer, arrogant, bloviator, bully, punk, thug, etc. - to describe the negative forms of characteristically masculine attributes. So why is "manly" used when it connotes none of those things?

But maybe I just have a "far-right" thesaurus in my head. What word would those who find "manly" distasteful use to describe someone who possessed only the finest of the characteristically male attributes?

C'mon, I'm curious, you leftie punks. No flanneling with "but people of both, er, all sexes can have those positive character attributes", we all know that. If "manly" connotes a "twisted concept of maleness", what's your word for the ideal?; 8/1/14, 10:48 AM
exhelodrvr1 said...: It's not a manly vs feminine issue, it's a basic competence issue.; 8/1/14, 10:57 AM
sunsong said...: LOL - what a wonderful sketch. 28 seconds! So well done. Love Chaplin.; 8/1/14, 11:01 AM
Basta! said...: When tsarist Russia took over the Pale, their minor officials gave a lot of the Jews residing their ridiculous Russian surnames, on purpose. It happened to Pasternak's family, for example (pasternak = parsnip). I wonder if that's how the Gopniks got their name.

OK, I just looked it up in the Oxford Russian dictionary: gopnik = yob(bo) --- well, they are Brits. But no info on when that term first appeared, Gopnik makes it sound soviet.; 8/1/14, 11:16 AM
Big Mike said...: @DrillSGT, Damn right! One can read all about Rick Rescorla in Wikipedia, but the real lowdown for manly men is here.; 8/1/14, 11:29 AM
n.n said...: Masculinity or "manly-man" is not about "pecking order" or "bullying". It is about respecting individual dignity, acknowledging intrinsic value, and liberty through self-moderating, responsible behavior.

The "pecking order" and "bullying" is characteristic of men and women who seek to exploit leverage (e.g. democratic) in order to dominate their fellow human beings. It is characteristic of men and women who deny a human life through an immoral choice and to relieve their "burden." It is characteristic of a degenerate religion based on doctrines of collective and inherited sin. It is characteristic of men and women who sponsor corruption and normalize dysfunction to appease their lifestyle. It is characteristic of an ideology which adheres to selective morality and enforces order through coercion.; 8/1/14, 11:42 AM
HoodlumDoodlum said...: Well if "manly-man" means bully, then yeah his criticisms of "manly-men" are correct (although Lord knows it's not only the far right that loves a bully). Since manly-man doesn't mean bully, though, he doesn't have a point.

Is Ron Swanson (Nick Offerman's character on Parks & Recreation) a bully?

chillblaine said...
Everything should be fine until your kid needs to be pulled out of a burning building, or your shit is getting all over your bathroom floor.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;; 8/1/14, 11:46 AM
Seeing Red said...: Interesting we're getting articles like this as the world becomes a "mess" and (younger) females are pushing back against feminism.

I've been telling my daughter she wants to marry a man, not those pajama boys. She goes to school with some of those types, she's observing.; 8/1/14, 11:50 AM
Seeing Red said...: And if a "manly man" didn't appeal to women, Harlequin bodice-rippers wouldn't have made a fortune, nor the books that rip more than bodices....

How young/clueless is this putz?; 8/1/14, 11:54 AM
CWJ said...: MRG @ 10:44,

Define "far-right?" That's just the start. You also need to define "manly-man" and more so "us."

I have no doubt that in Sunsong's mind the definitions are self-evident, and I have a good guess what they would be. But I would hope the Althouse community would call me out if I ever presented myself as speaking for some unspecified "us."; 8/1/14, 11:55 AM
Rusty said...: If you gotta think about it, you ain't got it.; 8/1/14, 12:03 PM
Jason said...: Putin, a long-time thug for the communists and enforcer of centralized planning and control, is a righty?

Jeez, libs are stupid.; 8/1/14, 12:27 PM
Anonymous said...: "C'mon, I'm curious, you leftie punks. No flanneling with "but people of both, er, all sexes can have those positive character attributes", we all know that. If "manly" connotes a "twisted concept of maleness", what's your word for the ideal?"

Is this a rhetorical question?

The answer is "Feminine" or "Woman" or something along those lines.; 8/1/14, 12:50 PM
MayBee said...: George Clooney is a manly man, and people seem to like him just fine.; 8/1/14, 1:01 PM
pst314 said...: So Gropnik has penned sophomoric psychosexual analysis of those who think it's a bad idea to have a President who bows to America's enemies? How typically New Yorker.; 8/1/14, 1:18 PM
Paco Wové said...: I would trust Sunsong's definition of "manly" about as much as I would trust Robert Cook's definition of "war criminal".; 8/1/14, 1:19 PM
pm317 said...: This is my other favorite from that movie. The globe dance by the dictator who looks delicate and effeminate. Does Obama globe dance?; 8/1/14, 1:22 PM
Peter said...: No doubt Adam Gopnik considers Ronald Reagan FAR right. But when he was elected, Iran freed the American hostages.

Does he think they would have done so for an American president like Obama?

Perhaps he might ponder why that is. And then ponder why nothing quite attracts the viciousness of bullies, and the violence they bring to the world stage, like perceived weakness.; 8/1/14, 1:45 PM
Eric the Fruit Bat said...: My idea of a manly-man is someone like Marky-Mark or maybe Snoop Doggy-Dog.; 8/1/14, 2:07 PM
richard mcenroe said...: "And if a "manly man" didn't appeal to women, Harlequin bodice-rippers wouldn't have made a fortune, nor the books that rip more than bodices....

How young/clueless is this putz?"

Glopnik is what happens when you write in your jammies, sipping hot cocoa...; 8/1/14, 2:50 PM
Birches said...: I'll just add the wide appeal of Christian Grey to the nonsensical idea that only the "far-right" likes manly men.

Or Denzel Washington.

Or Chris Hemsworth.

Hmmm...Thor.; 8/1/14, 3:06 PM
Mark O said...: Is this Gopnik's way of outing Obama?; 8/1/14, 3:30 PM
Michael K said...: "The manly men of NYC walked out of the dust cloud of the survivors and then turned around and went back in looking for survivors.

Rick Rescorla was a Mensch!"

Rick had an amazing life and the way it ended might have been satisfactory to him.; 8/1/14, 4:04 PM
Krumhorn said...: I think you could cut off Harvey's arm and another Keitel would grow fully formed from it, like a starfish.

Or even Clint Eastwood. If that happens, I hope its a younger Clint so that we will have scores of new movies to admire.

To me, the alternative to manly is passive-aggressive which pretty much defines Dear Leader...once you get past narcissist.

-Krumhorn; 8/1/14, 4:10 PM
jaed said...: A question: does "manly man" mean "not like a woman", or does it mean "not like a little boy"?

The word "man" means a male adult, and that's two qualities, not one. Childishness is incompatible with manliness, and most of the descriptions of manliness I see (other than the ones trying to denigrate men) are qualities of adulthood, not maleness.

People who see manliness as somehow opposed to womanliness may be barking up the wrong tree. It's actually opposed to childishness.; 8/1/14, 4:42 PM
phantommut said...: Buzz Aldrin.; 8/1/14, 5:02 PM
bgates said...: People's lives don't matter to him. Power matters to him.

Barack Obama is a millionaire who has blood relatives living in African-level poverty. He likes to talk about how we all have to come together to heal the planet, because the only way he wants his supporters to imagine that could be done is to route vast amounts of money through his hands. Hundred bucks from the countryside into the capital, ninety-some bucks from the capital back to the countryside; multiply that by a few billion each year, and those in the capital do very well for themselves. If he were to help his starving relations - I don't mean picking up a stinkburger for the mean witch and the girls, I mean reaching into his own pocket to help poor people with no claim on him but blood and fellow humanity, I mean sending money to poor Obamas the way conservative Dinesh D'Souza did before the President had him locked up - if the President offered real charity like that, it wouldn't make him any money at all. So he doesn't do it.; 8/1/14, 5:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Birches, Thor is a woman now, according to Marvel.

Not that Thor got a sex change or anything, they just replaced the male character for a female.; 8/1/14, 6:38 PM
jr565 said...: "To me it's kind of a twisted concept of maleness. Not a protector or a dynamic kind of pizzaz but a bully. Putin is a good example of it. People's lives don't matter to him. Power matters to him."
Spoken like a guy who is not masculine, or is a metrosexual. A whole lot of projection going on there. Its the same thing as a woman saying guys are a holes to justify why she is a bossy boss.
NO, that is not a sign of a good boss, nor is lives not nattering a sign of manliness. The person writing this can't have any testosterone.; 8/1/14, 8:32 PM
gk1 said...: I'm sorry there is no way to polish this girly man of a president. I think he should lean into it and go back to wearing mom jeans and throwing like a 6 year old girl at the All star game. Only a chinless wonder like Glopnik could think otherwise.; 8/1/14, 9:27 PM
William said...: Castro was a manly man. Very hirsute and always wearing an army fatigue uniform. Leftists adore him.....There have been lots of chest bumping left wing dictators who have escaped the attention of witty leftists. Nasser, Tito, Mugabe, Hoxha. It's a long list, but you won't see any movies exposing their foibles.; 8/1/14, 9:40 PM
cubanbob said...: @bgates in most of Africa $20 USD a day is middle class.
For $7,800 he can put one of his half brothers in the middle class of their country for a year.

As for the manly man stuff, Putin isn't a manly man. He is a better educated John Gotti with a better veneer and with not quite as sharp suits. Obama is just a whinny little bitch.; 8/1/14, 10:25 PM
Trashhauler said...: Steadfast, decisive, cognizant of the stakes at hand, brave, willing to sacrifice for what they see as the better good, willing to stay the course, without wavering. These traits aren't necessarily "manly," but most people can sense them when they are encountered.

For over forty years I listened to my fellow service members discuss the characteristics of our leaders. We parsed their words in the manner of people who might be asked to back up those words. We observed how they held themselves and how they reacted to others. Most showed at least some of the necessary traits. Two or three showed very few.; 8/1/14, 10:43 PM
Anonymous said...: "I think the idea of manly-man appeals to the far right ..."

I wonder, was mr. Stalin, our dear "Uncle Joe" a manly man, and did he appeal to the left. Well yes, I think so. And what about that Mr. Mao? ...

One of the things which made me "of the right"(though I was never a lefty) was Pol Pot and his massmurders between 1975 and 1978 and especially the non-reaction of the so called anti-war movement (the only lefty I can remember who protested was Susan Sontag, and she was a nutcase in her own right). It made me realize the moral degenerates the left are, I have called them red nazis ever since.; 8/2/14, 4:35 AM
Fandor said...: "Russian deputy PM mocks Obama by tweeting ‘unmanly’ photo of president
Days after announcement of US sanctions on Russia, the country's deputy prime minister challenges US president's masculinty by tweeting picture of Putin with a leopard and Obama with a poodle."

From The Telegraph/Users/lakehenry/Desktop/putin_2993191b.jpg; 8/2/14, 7:00 AM
james conrad said...: I am inclined to go with Ann Coulter on women voters. Let's face it, women have been a disaster in politics from the very beginning, prohibition through Obama.
"Coulter: "If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president"; 8/2/14, 8:28 AM
SGT Ted said...: Only a leftwing, metrosexual pussy would think openly expressed masculinity or someone who is a manly-man is a twisted concept of maleness.; 8/2/14, 8:30 AM
Anonymous said...: james conrad: "Coulter: "If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president"

That only works if you have enough white men in the population. (Sorry, but male "people of color" - even smart, high-earning ones - vote like single white women.); 8/2/14, 11:37 AM
Fen said...: "I think the idea of manly-man appeals to the far right ..."

I wonder, was mr. Stalin, our dear "Uncle Joe" a manly man, and did he appeal to the left. Well yes, I think so. And what about that Mr. Mao?

Heh. The lefty metrosexuals are more like women than they know - they claim they just need a nice guy with empathy who will listen to all their caterwauling, but what they really want is to be guided by a Strong Hand.; 8/2/14, 12:49 PM
Unknown said...: Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" documents thoroughly the Progressive support for Mussolini's Fascism and even Hitler's National Socialism...all that support lasted from their beginnings until the Hitler-Stalin Non-Aggression Pact of 1939.

That Progressive praise often referred to the muscularity of Mussolini's political platform and no-nonsense willingness to remake Italian society; 8/3/14, 12:25 AM