Althouse: "When your thought process is as mangled as this author's tour de force of reasoning, you just might be an idiot."

July 18, 2014

"When your thought process is as mangled as this author's tour de force of reasoning, you just might be an idiot."

"She doesn't merely have a different opinion - she seems to not understand the difference between statistic and anecdote, she is under-educated about the topic she chose to write on... and she seems to have a great deal of trouble drawing logical conclusions. You pick the epithet. This author also seems to have a pathological need for attention - a craving so strong that she doesn't care who she hurts...."

Want to get the most hostile possible reactions in the comments? Do what Erin Auerbach did. Write: "Why I’d never adopt a shelter dog again."

54 comments:

Jeffrey said...: In the comments to the article, one of the Washington Post's own editors and columnists, Gene Weingarten, actually writes the following: "Ma'am. I hope you are very young. Because if you have some years on you and are still this ignorant and naive, you are headed for a deeply vapid, empty life."

Really? This is acceptable? For the Post to print this woman's piece (which strikes me as entirely reasonable**) and then have one of its own editors -- the most well-known and senior of them, in fact -- proclaim she has a "deeply vapid, empty life?"

I think that's actually rather grotesque.

**She adopted several shelter dogs throughout her life, spent massive amounts of time and money nursing them through debilitating diseases that she was unaware of at the time of taking them in, and then decided "hey, this time I'm going to get a dog whose history and pedigree I'm aware of in advance."; 7/18/14, 6:08 PM
Revenant said...: When I read the title I assumed it had to be about Rolling Stone's "five most dangerous guns" article.; 7/18/14, 6:11 PM
YoungHegelian said...: Yes, owning a pet is a crap shoot. Problem animals do end up in shelters, but breeders have a big problem with inbred genetics. Nothing, but nothing, can guarantee that an animal won't be sickly, especially as it gets older -- just like people.

If the author thinks pets are a crap shoot just wait until she has a husband & kids!; 7/18/14, 6:11 PM
Wince said...: There's always a certain stridency in those who consider themselves on the right side of the animal welfare debate.; 7/18/14, 6:21 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Shelter cats are fine, because you can get to know a cat in ten minutes. The ability of cats to cause problems is limited. At worst, they can always live outside.

Dogs are like people in that they are complex in emotion and behavior. Adapting a dog is much like child adaption. It's much more difficult than raising from birth. It can be done successfully, but adopting an adult dog is like adopting a troubled teenager who has lived in foster care. You have no idea what has happened to them, but it was probably bad. With human beings the adopting parent generally understands this. With dogs, people usually don't know what they are getting into.

Dogs that I've raised from puppies are all good canine citizens. Dogs that I've adopted took enormous effort to change their bad behavior. Maybe that's anecdotal, but it's my anecdote. When anecdotes are constantly belittled and ignored it may be because the statistics are dishonest.

Shelter dog adoption is a big sacred cow. If you say it's a bad idea everyone gets a free pass to say whatever they want about you. Well, it's a bad idea. Many adopted dogs turn out fine, but many more just cause trouble for everyone, including their owners and themselves. Ever lived around rescue dogs? Did you enjoy the barking and bad behavior?

I saw a rescue dog kill my cat. Then the dog had to be destroyed (not my idea, there was no point in killing another animal, but the owner could not find a home for it.) Earlier my parents had adopted a German Shepard. The dog bit me when I was a child. My parents returned the dog and told the shelter that the dog shouldn't be around children. The shelter gave the dog to a family with children... and it attacked the child and had to be destroyed.

Anecdotes, not statistics, whatever. It's very easy to not collect statistics on what you want to hide- failed pet adoptions, rates of canine behavior problems, etc.

Adoption isn't even very effective at reducing the number of stray dogs. The number of destroyed animals is enormous.

How many shelter animals are returned because they are too difficult and unsocialized? No statistics, I bet. Plenty of anecdotes.

If you want to be a good dog owner, in all senses of the word, raise a puppy and treat it as a lifetime commitment. Your dog will live a good life and you will have done a good thing for the world. If you insist on adopting a dog, please do the research and be ready for a difficult time. And have the time available to train it properly. Dogs are not all born the same, nor are they raised the same. One is not the same as another.; 7/18/14, 6:25 PM
Michael K said...: I adopted a basset hound with spinal stenosis. He was an angel. He had a little cart for his hind quarters when we adopted him but within a few days he was walking and he did well for several years. Eventually, he had worse problems with bowel and bladder control and eventually we euthanized him. He had four years of good life with us and I would not change that at all. You have to know what you are getting into and rescue dogs are not all easy.; 7/18/14, 6:37 PM
robinintn said...: It seems to me she understands the difference between statistic and anecdote perfectly. Her experiences are the anecdotes, and because of her experiences, she has chosen what statistically is the most likely winning hand. I may be prejudiced though, by my own anecdote: watching my devastated child lose 2 beloved adopted dogs within 2 years, not to mention my own heart. Holding them in my lap while they were euthanized - cancer at 5 years and, horribly, 18 months, was just unbelievably difficult. I gave my daughter our beautiful, healthy, genetically reliable Sheltie for her high school graduation, and I don't regret it for one single solitary instant. Oh, and screw those repulsive assholes patting themselves on the back imagining their moral superiority.; 7/18/14, 6:55 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "I adopted a basset hound with spinal stenosis…."

Since thousands of perfectly healthy dogs are gassed by the Humane Society, why would you not choose to save a healthy dog?

I wonder if people aren't choosing to rescue dogs that are recognizable as a breed and also whether these dogs are really puppy mill dogs, bad breeding of breeds.

Is "rescue" a method of laundering out the taint of "puppy mill"?; 7/18/14, 7:08 PM
sakredkow said...: People get as self-righteous about animal ownership as they do about atheism and religion, and whatever else you got. I understand their hearts are in the right place usually.

But ability to see things from someone else's point of view seems to be a dying art.; 7/18/14, 7:20 PM
n.n said...: It's probably the same reasons why people prefer rent-a-womb babies rather than adoption of human beings after birth.; 7/18/14, 7:48 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "But ability to see things from someone else's point of view seems to be a dying art."

Can the someone else be the dog?

I would think the suffering of the dependent animal and the availability of healthy animals facing annihilation should overwhelm the fixation of the human master on his particular dog...

... if we're really talking about morality.; 7/18/14, 7:50 PM
khesanh0802 said...: The author is absolutely correct. If you want certain characteristics in a dog you need to work hard to find a reputable breeder who has those dogs available.
I never have, and never will, have a dog from a shelter. That said, one of my boys has had great luck with shelter dogs although their unknown history/pedigree always makes me nervous for his children. Even so I would never recommend a shelter dog to anyone. A dog is a huge financial and emotional commitment; why make it to an unknown quantity?

The author is justified in telling those who condemn her to "stfu"!; 7/18/14, 7:53 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: Self righteousness and moral superiority are toxic qualities--and they are endemic in the "shelter dog" and "rescue dog" communities.

With the exception of a pure bred basset hound that my wife and I bought right after we started our marriage, I've had dogs that were either given to me or were shelter dogs. They've been okay and generally healthy although all but the current one ultimately e reached the end of their health line and needed to be euthanized. And yes in my family, taking the dog on that last trip to the vet has been "Daddy's job". It's a heartbreaking task The current one is now almost fourteen and she's not much longer for the world.

But, like the lady who wrote the article commented on, my next dog (and it well be my last dog due to my age) will be bought from a reputable breeder. Just like ugly men and women, pedigreed dogs need love too. Oh I might lose my heart to another shelter or rescue dog--but this time I want a Corgi. I've had a basset (from a breeder), and four shelter or rescue dogs including one I "inherited" from a deceased friend.

That's all fine: I've taken good care of my animals for 45 years now, (in addition to the time I spent taking care of several different dogs as a kid). I've earned the right to have the dog I want. And I've also got the general disposition to give self righteous busybodies who'd get in the way of what I want a good stiff sample of the Obama "digital salute".

Buzz off busters; he who buys the dog food and pays the vet bills makes the decisions.; 7/18/14, 8:02 PM
Eleanor said...: I've adopted shelter dogs, and I've purchased puppies from reliable breeders. I've had health issues with both. But when I raise a puppy, I am entirely responsible for its training and socialization. Taking in a shelter dog is a crap shoot. Sometimes you get someone's pet that has been surrendered for reasons that don't reflect badly on the dog. Sometimes you get a dog with unknown behavior issues. At the times in my life when I'm bringing a dog into my home and there are no children here, I'll take the risk of adopting from a shelter. But when there are children living in my house or who are frequent visitors, I want a puppy I've raised and whose history I know.; 7/18/14, 8:03 PM
averagejoe said...: Upon reading the quoted material, I thought this was some commenter criticizing Althouse.; 7/18/14, 8:34 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I expected her column to be a big troll given the extreme reaction. Instead it was thoughtful and gentle.

When did the shelter dog thing become a thing? I don't remember it being a thing fifteen years ago. Then suddenly, a thing!; 7/18/14, 8:47 PM
David said...: My dog is now almost 9 years old. Came from the humane society as a puppy. Lovely dog, healthy, great temperament, a delightful companion, friend to all who cross her path.

In my youth our dog was a stray that showed up in the yard one day. Another impeccable dog who lived to age 17.

The only bad thing about dogs is that you are likely to outlive them. Then you miss them terribly.; 7/18/14, 9:06 PM
Michael K said...: "Since thousands of perfectly healthy dogs are gassed by the Humane Society, why would you not choose to save a healthy dog?"

Our basset had just died of cancer and my significant other was devastated. I went to the Basset shelter in LA where they had 100 basset hounds. Charlie walked out with his little cart and put his nose between my legs. Who could resist that. He was an angel.

My present basset hound is now 8 and I may be too old for another as they are big dogs. Winston will probably be my last basset.; 7/18/14, 9:07 PM
Anonymous said...: OK. The comments in the Post are hilarious. I wish I could be a do-gooder.; 7/18/14, 9:23 PM
The Godfather said...: We have two dogs, one a "rescue" (when she writes her autobiography it will be called "Born In The Pound"), and the other an AKC pure bred from a good breeder. The mutt is coming on toward her sixth birthday; she has been generally healthy, but has needed surgery twice at close to $2K per. The purebred is almost 5 months old and has only cost hundreds in normal vet bills (she'll be spayed next month; don't know what that'll cost). I had two collies (seriatim) growing up; one died in my arms. My first wife and I had a schnauzer and later a standard poodle (which died in my arms). My real wife and I had two lakeland terriers that developed behavioral problems and had to be given away.

My point is: A dog will break your heart, if you have one. Go into it knowing that.

And never whine.; 7/18/14, 9:29 PM
Jason said...: "Dear editor,

I'm writing with a query letter to see if you'd be interested in a column on why I'd never adopt a dog from a shelter again. I've been previously published in Salon ..."

NEXT!!!!!; 7/18/14, 9:30 PM
Jason said...: Gene Weingarten, if you're vanity-Googling yourself, and you read this, that was classless.

Never punch down. Only punch across and up.; 7/18/14, 9:32 PM
rastajenk said...: Freeman, I blame facebook.; 7/18/14, 9:50 PM
Fernandinande said...: We've had two dog-pound dogs and they've been great. Plus my college dog.

When we find puppies the Indians left in the desert to die miserable deaths, we get them to Rescue Rovers
They're not close, but they have volunteers who pick-up all over the south-west.; 7/18/14, 9:56 PM
Michelle Dulak Thomson said...: What Michael K was far too well brought up to say (but I am not): Who are you, Ann, to say that he was wrong to adopt a disabled dog when there were "healthy" ones going begging?; 7/18/14, 10:08 PM
Ann Althouse said...: I didn't say it. I asked a question.

And I do know the answer to the question.

I refrained from saying it.; 7/18/14, 10:20 PM
Mark Leavy said...: I was walking my wife's beautiful whippet one day (and this dog always draws comments). A young lady stopped and said, "What a beautiful dog, is it a rescue?" Not remembering that I was in the city, I unthinkingly replied with the truth. "No, he was the top stud, but since he was related to too many of the bitches they had to sell him". I've never seen a woman walk away so quickly...; 7/18/14, 10:45 PM
Bob Ellison said...: Probably ten dogs have graced my life. Right now two mutts and a purebred German shepherd are in the house. The purebred has been a problem, but gets calmer by the week.

The yellow dog is the best dog that ever there was. She is about fourteen now, and still strong. Loves everyone, even the UPS man.; 7/18/14, 11:05 PM
Craig Landon said...: Considering some cultures eat them, as you or I would a lettuce leaf, I find this whole thread bizarre.

Live ant let live -- unowned, excepting nutrition and aggression.; 7/18/14, 11:28 PM
CatherineM said...: Well, I am an animal lover who would love a dog except my lifestyle doesn't include walks a few times a day. I will either get a dog around retirement (if that ever comes) or when I have a reliable dog walker because I would never want to leave a dog for 10-12 hours a day without a pee and I don't want them peeing on a wee wee pad. Different from litter. So I have 2 to 3 cats and they would NOT like someone who does not bury their business.

There are no guarantees with cats, dogs, children, whatever. I remember seeing this movie starring Ann Margaret in the '80s where she played a dying mother with a bunch of kids. Her husband was an alcoholic so while she was alive she gave her children up for adoption. 2 of the children were inseparable, but one had epilepsy or something. I remember the parents who adopted the "normal" kid after a few days of seeing the distress of the separation said, "who is to say if we could have had a child our own that it would be perfect?" So, they adopted the "sick" child which overjoyed the one they adopted and then the parents. I believe it was a true story.

My point being, you NEVER know. Labs are known as gentle, but there has been an aggressive strain of breed going around. is there a DNA test for that? Cats? Someone said you "know," but all of mine have had one personality as kittens (cray cray! sometimes) and are different as adults (the crazy becomes a lap cat for example).

My next cat adoptions will be elderly, I don't mind the money to care for end of life stuff and I want to give a 13 or up kitty a clean quiet place to chill in her retirement (after my current senior tabby goes - she will have no more intrusions on her privacy!); 7/18/14, 11:42 PM
CatherineM said...: PS - love the Pupperazzo page by Meade. Lifts my mood on a shitty day at the office. Or even a good one.

Xo; 7/18/14, 11:44 PM
Kirk Parker said...: Freeman,

"When did the shelter dog thing become a thing? I don't remember it being a thing fifteen years ago. Then suddenly, a thing!"

Hey, Fierce Moral Urgency™ is a growth industry.; 7/19/14, 12:17 AM
Kirk Parker said...: Freeman,

"When did the shelter dog thing become a thing? I don't remember it being a thing fifteen years ago. Then suddenly, a thing!"

Hey, Fierce Moral Urgency™ is a growth industry.; 7/19/14, 12:17 AM
Smilin' Jack said...: And I do know the answer to the question.

I refrained from saying it.

OK, then I'll say it: replace "dog" with "child" and you have the answer.; 7/19/14, 1:13 AM
Diamondhead said...: I got my precious beagle from a family who lives in the country and hadn't spayed or neutered their dogs. I bought her for $200 without papers. I suppose this is a horrible offense. The only acceptable way for me to have this companion I have is if she was a originally a puppy mill dog with terrible owners that then turned her into the pound. Then I could say, "I don't know what she is, exactly...she's a rescue." Or if I'd actually gotten her from a puppy mill, at the dog park I could just put on a pained expression and say, "we'll, she's from a puppy mill dog..." I just cut out the middle man. FUCK those people.; 7/19/14, 2:08 AM
Quaestor said...: It does seem that Auerbach has had some major misadventures with shelter dogs. However it occurs to me that the source of the dog may not be relevant. All the dogs she mentions seem to be Boston Terriers, French bulldogs, Pugs or mixed breeds tending towards these types -- i.e. small companion dogs of the brachycephalic type, which is the hard way to say dogs bred for a certain look, as opposed to dogs bred for a certain task. Mostly this is bad.

In my experience these brachycephalic breeds are disproportionately favored by single women who either by choice or medical misfortune are childless and will remain so. Pugs and their kindred have been bred to look as much like a primate as human ingenuity can accomplish short of actual genetic manipulation. (The Next Big Thing: GM pets for lonely feminists. Watch for IPOs soon.) Looking distinctly simian with its large closely spaced eyes and flat face a Boston Terrier can almost resemble a human infant if you squint hard enough, ergo the appeal. I don't know whether Pugs are popular in Germany, but if they are I reckon the local nickname is Erzatzkind. Mostly this is bad.

Breeding a dog to have a distinctly un-canine head presents complications. Unlike primates, canids don't have eye-sockets, so flat faces and disproportionately large eyes are problematic for them, which is probably why no wild canid has those features. Yet Man in his wisdom provides for the dog what nature would not. (Notice how I deftly deflect feminist rage onto Man, and not onto Wo-Man for the crime of stupid dog breeding?) Mostly this is bad.

Therefore, if you go out an acquire by any means -- though adoption, rescue, or purchase -- any dog with so many human-forced maladaptations like chronically irritated eyes and chronic respiratory distress, not to mention all the other troublesome recessive genes that get expressed in animals bred to such an artificial and contrived criterion as a "look", the you get what you deserve. Though the dog doesn't, as usual. Mostly this is bad.; 7/19/14, 7:20 AM
Quaestor said...: EDH wrote:
There's always a certain stridency in those who consider themselves on the right side of the animal welfare debate.

Putting it mildly....; 7/19/14, 7:21 AM
Andy Krause said...: I wonder if people aren't choosing to rescue dogs that are recognizable as a breed and also whether these dogs are really puppy mill dogs, bad breeding of breeds.

I wonder about this also. The local pet stores have regular events with most of the dogs listed as "rescued from a "kill shelter" in Kentucky. I asked about this and they wouldn't give the shelter name.; 7/19/14, 7:32 AM
acm said...: I imagine the stressful environment at most dog shelters probably makes the poor doggies more likely to develop cancer and other problems. Of course it's a huge problem for socialization. As more organizations move toward dog "fostering" instead of institutional shelter settings, some of the problems should improve quite a bit.

For what it's worth, my family had a mutt, possibly some sort of terrier, and three purebred dogs (two Siberian Huskies, and one Black-and-Tan-coon-hound) and the mutt was the healthiest and smartest. The mutt wasn't rescued from a shelter---he first belonged to an elderly neighbor who employed us kids as dog walkers/entertainers.

I have a rescue dog now, simply because I did NOT want a puppy, and I didn't want to take the word of a stranger rehoming an older dog on craigslist. My kids fell in love with just about all the dogs they saw, but talking with the dog-foster-owners led me to the right one for our family, a shepherd mix whose personality is pretty mellow for the breed. The rescue group made it abundantly clear that they will be happy to accept the dog back into their system, at any time, for any reason, and they'd even refund the adoption fee if the dog was returned within 90 days, so they have no reason to gloss over any unpleasantness about the dog.; 7/19/14, 7:37 AM
bleh said...: She can't be serious. I suppose if you're trying to get purebreeds on the cheap at a shelter, then you might be getting the refuse from a disreputable breeder. So yeah, that might result in health problems since purebreeds are cheaply made by breeding siblings and so forth.

But mutts? Come on. Mutts are the best dogs. Healthier, happier, nicer, better temperament, smarter. Endearingly goofy looking.; 7/19/14, 8:15 AM
khesanh0802 said...: Ann;

Where is the St Bernard that you featured all winter?; 7/19/14, 9:15 AM
Anonymous said...: Are the people talking about genetic differences among breeds of dogs the same ones claiming that human gender is just a social construct?; 7/19/14, 9:29 AM
Kelly said...: I got my Scotty from a breeder. He is dumb as a box of rocks, still lifts his leg on anything new that comes in the house, but has never had a health problem in his ten years of life and is sweet if you don't mind compulsive licking.

Got my Pryenees from a rescue. Spent over a thousand dollars clearing up her mange in the beginning. She started having seizures not long after her mange was cleared up. We were able to train her to do any trick, but couldn't teach her not to attack strangers or even people that came over on a regular basis. I had to drive her to secluded parks for walks.

She is about 13 now and has bladder infections, eye problems and a thyroid problem. She is deaf and her hips are giving out so no more long walks. The only upside to her old age is she seems to have forgotten to attack strangers.

There is a reason some dogs are rescues.; 7/19/14, 10:07 AM
Mary Beth said...: Revenant said...

When I read the title I assumed it had to be about Rolling Stone's "five most dangerous guns" article.

7/18/14, 6:11 PM

Me too! Except the complaint wouldn't just be about a lack of knowledge of the subject, it would also be about using Wikipedia as a substitute for knowledge.

Hers - "Some grenade launchers, shotguns, and rifles also have rotating barrels, but the term "revolver" is generally used to describe handguns."
Wikipedia - "The term "revolver" refers to a handgun, but other weapons may also have a revolving chamber. These include some models of grenade launchers, shotguns, and rifles."; 7/19/14, 10:10 AM
Mary Beth said...: She loves to sit on my patio and bark at squirrels.

How charming. The neighbors must love that.

If you got your dog from a breeder and someone (stranger or just an acquaintance) asks where you got it, first ask if they're thinking about getting a dog of that breed. If they say yes, give them the name of the breeder. If they say no, just tell them you got it from someone who had to give it up. Or, if you don't mind alienating your neighbors, when they say no, ask them, "Then why are you asking?" and walk off.; 7/19/14, 10:35 AM
Mrs. X said...: My husband was/is a fan of shelter dogs, while I prefer knowing what I'm getting (to the extent that this is possible). I was bullied by husband and kids into adopting a shelter dog. We had her for six months until she bit our then 9 year old daughter in the eye -- dog thought daughter was trying to take a bone away. 60 stitches, plastic surgeon, totally traumatic. Plus, we didn't have the heart to deliver the dog back to the shelter and certain death so we ended up paying a rescue organization $400 to rehome her someplace with no children. We now have a nine year old cairn terrier, so the story has a happy ending. I'm never doing the shelter dog thing again.; 7/19/14, 11:34 AM
Unknown said...: The headline is unfortunate, but the author writes eloquently about why not everyone can or should get their dog from a shelter. Do you have the time, patience, family circumstances, and resources to take in a dog you know nothing about? God bless you all the days of your life. Do your circumstances dictate getting a dog that you know comes from healthy parents, who has been bred carefully, socialized properly, and whose breeder will be available to provide information and assistance for the life of the dog (to say nothing of taking the dog back at any time, for any reason)? Then you shouldn't be made to feel guilty about buying that dog, any more than a couple deciding to conceive a child should be chastised for not adopting a Ugandan orphan.; 7/19/14, 12:27 PM
Kelly said...: Mrs X, the same thing happened to my daughter. She was bitten in the face by my neighbors shelter dog. She was almost three at the time and I was right there when it happened. Got her above and below the eye and along the jaw line. It just so happens there was a pediatric surgeon at the Army hospital that night so the scarring was minimal.

The dog went on to bite an adult and another dog before it was put down.; 7/19/14, 12:29 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Why rehome a dog that has given anyone a serious bite?; 7/19/14, 1:06 PM
Mrs. X said...: We just didn't have the heart to have her put down. (I suppose this could also be read as having a disregard for society, but we didn't get that far in our thinking at the time.) In fact, the dog's problem seemed to be only with children. The woman from the rescue organization sent us period reports about the dog, who was sent to a farm - we first assumed it was a proverbial "farm" but we saw pictures. The dog was only around other dogs and one woman (the farmer?). She seemed to do well, and our consciences were soothed.; 7/19/14, 3:12 PM
Anonymous said...: This article and a rece t experience we had with friends in California explain a lot.

The friends in California adopted a dog from the pound (or whatever they call it now). They wanted a gentle dog because they have small children. According to my friends telling, this one dog was perfect. Docile, gentle, well behaved. They adopted it. Paid something like $200.00 for everything.

A few days after they got the dog home, it wasn't moving. Wasn't eating. They took the dog to the vet and $1,000.00 later, she is fine now. She is also very playful and aggressive. She jumps up on the children and even scratched one child's face, causing him to bleed and cry from the pain. She isn't a bad dog, just much more aggressive than they thought. Because they didn't know she was sick. My friend called the pound livid with them for not telling them she was sick. According to him, they said all dogs come as is. He said he would never adopt another dog from the pound again.

Now this post story.

And my wife and I had been wondering the last few years, why are we able to sell our mutt puppies for $350? This must be why.

If we "sell" them on craigslist for $200.00, they go lot hotcakes. So we sell the first few, the more wanted ones, for $350 and then we lower the price until they are all gone. And these are mutts! They are part black lab, part Rottweiler, and then some other stuff thrown in.

It all makes sense now.; 7/19/14, 7:29 PM
Ctmom4 said...: A woman in our neighborhood worked for a vet, and brought home two rescue dogs. They terrorized the neighborhood children, barking and snarling at them when they played in the street. This on a street teeming with little kids - probably two to a house. They got loose one day and one of them bit a little girl my third son's age on the face. The woman refused to get rid of them. It caused an unbelievable tension and animosity in the neighborhood. I would never get a shelter dog. I had four kids and packs of kids always at the house - I couldn't take that chance.; 7/19/14, 9:21 PM
Ctmom4 said...: I have to stop reading comments on the WaPo and NY Times. The sanctimony and self righteousness is sickening.; 7/19/14, 9:22 PM
Trashhauler said...: People should never adopt children for much the same reasons.; 7/19/14, 11:51 PM