It should go without saying that the Israel-US alliance becomes more brittle as it becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party. And perhaps more than that, as it becomes more clearly identified with the ties between Netanyahu and US Republicans.The headline is "Dangerous Game," and we're told "Nothing gets the Obama administration's ire up like the perception (very often grounded in reality) that Netanyahu and his government ministers are trying to scuttle his initiatives by inveigling themselves into domestic partisan conflict in the US."
Marshall won't say it directly, but this feels like desperation about the 2014 elections.
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71 comments:
I think there is some advice that you should not mix pot and alcohol.
The Democrats are uncomfortable. They use the same tactics as Hamas and could be caught out.
Marshall won't say it directly, but this feels like desperation about the 2014 elections.
It sounds to me like Obamalamadingdong and company have discovered that his incompetent and pro-Islamist policies have alienated an important base.
Finally.
What a stupid little man:
"I don't know what role Dermer himself plays in the working the general ties with US Republicans, though I suspect it's substantial"
He doesn't know...
Here's what we do know (if you get your information from somewhere other than MiniTru) - John Kerry is an incompetent doofus. He has been such an incompetent doofus that even the liberal papers in Israel have been shocked. So they no longer trust Obama or his people.
Thats what actually has Josh steamed - his "smart diplomacy" has led to a loss of all credibility re Israel.
The rockets are real. The civillian deaths are real. So they aren't interested in whatever bs snake oil pitch you are teleprompting today.
Marshall seems close to making a perceptive point here. Most of the top Israeli people, including Netanyahu and Dermer, speak English with obviously American accents and idioms. They sound like New Yorkers.
People don't talk about this much. The leaders in Israel come across on video and audio as a strange breed: conservative Jews from New York who are absolutely dedicated to the survival and success of Israel.
Both Clinton and Obama are infamous for their hatred of bibi Netanyahu. What choice does Netanyahu realistically have? The party of al sharpton and wright won't support Israel.
We'll, yes, mucho metaphors, but NO FACTS. Not a single fact that Netanyahu is using Republicans as "cut outs" or even what that spycraft term means in this context.
The other day we read that with the defeat of Eric Cantor, American Jews don't have a Republican they can go to. Today we are told the Republicans are working for the Israelis.
Anyway, it's all absurd. After all, the Israelis have no better friend than John Kerry; what do they need Republicans for?
Well, when Kerry tries to use Vietnam tell Bibi how to see "from the Palestinian point of view", no one should be surprised that the Israelis would long for a better sort of diplomat.
Did anyone bat an eye when Osama Bin Ladin and friends tried to influence the Bush/Kerry Presidential race?
Surely Bin Laden had a better sense of the toxic repurcussions of mobilizing friendly people from the DNC in that way.
(Bin Laden was not an ally of the U.S., nor was he a national leader...but he had pretensions of leadership in international politics. And I remember him issuing a statement about that election.)
Perhaps Hillary is scheming to have some nukes dropped so she can claim she was the adult in the room who held everything together. Once she left the world fell to pieces.
We need her back to put the world back together. She's got our back yo.
Republicans are not much into identity politics. They have been told it is important, and they try - at least the politicians do - but their hearts are not in it; they tend to be more issue oriented, like "law & order," national debt, and whatever.
Do you remember? It was only 2 years ago,
Delegates and members of the Democratic party booed after former Gov. Ted Strickland (D-OH) discussed God and moved to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
Convention chairman Antonio Villaraigosa, mayor of Los Angeles, had to ask for the Yea and Nay vote several times before declaring the motion passed.
C-SPAN cameras captured the dissatisfaction among Democrats after the motion passed.
Those tricksy Joos are behind the evil rethuglicans!
This is great: slime two groups you hate at once.
Mediaite headline:
U.S. Intel Head: If We Destroy Hamas, We Might End Up With Something Worse
What the text says:
Michael Flynn, the current head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, spoke at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado over the weekend and gave a disturbing warning about the current Gaza conflict, remarking, “If Hamas were destroyed and gone, we would probably end up with something much worse.”
See what Mediaite did there?
". . . the Israel-US alliance becomes more brittle as it becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party."
Not because the Israelis prefer it that way, but because the Democrats now side with the Palestinians.
But Marshall is right about the risk for Israel: for American Progressives, anything tied to the GOP is "toxic." A friend of their enemy is their enemy.
For Progressives domestic politics and power have priority. Giving up on the "alliance" or even the survival of Israel is a small price to pay, if it is a price at all.
For the time being, it has to be finessed. There are still enough Democratic Jews who care about Israel. But how much longer?
"I wish Netanyahu and his government had a better sense of the toxic repercussions of mobilizing GOP proxies as cut-outs in this way."
I wish Josh Marshall and his Talking Points Memo (and John Kerry) had a better sense of the toxic repercussions of selling out Israel to a terrorist group this way.
I get the sense Obama and Netanhayu genuinely dislike each other--of course Netanhayu will reach out to whoever will give him the support he needs. If it's the GOP, then so be it.
I doubt this will affect the 2014 elections though. Any hard core pro-Israel voters in the U.S. are already going to vote Republican. The voters--Jews and non-Jews alike--who lead Democratic will back Obama against Israel any day of the week.
One only has to answer the question:
Which US Party does Hamas align with to know the underlying issue?
Brando the Concern Troll admits Obama is against Israel.
I was just flipping among several different news channels. Lots of pictures of wounded Palestinian children. Heart rending to look at. I mean that sincerely. There's a terrible human cost......However, I notice that there have been 175,000 deaths in the Syrian conflict. I presume some of them were cute children. I can't recall seeing anywhere near the same number of heart rending photos of wounded children......Israel is not losing the media war. The media is warring on Israel.
OK, so if the Democrats that run the Obama Administration are selling Israel down the river, WTF effect do they expect?
That is actually much more preferable that an alternative that some are now worrying about, and that has historical precedence - Israel looking to Russia for help.
The concern here is that Israel, the new government in Egypt, and the Saudi-led Sunni Arabs, though they may not much like each other, are getting together to fight their common enemy, leaving the U.S. Gov't on the outside looking in.
Obama's gang always tries to get away with saying what his Dems are now doing to destroy Israel is such a ridiculous thing for an American President to be doing that no body believes the reports.
The Israeli cabinet is not fooled. A holocaust supporter is a holocaust supporter.
Calling for an immediate cease fire with no conditions on the second day of the D-Day invasion would not have fooled Eisenhower any more that will fool Israel. It is simply a terrorist tactic.
Obama's arrogance in pretending Israel is that stupid boggles the imagination.
"Smarm Diplomacy"
It ain't working so let's try to make support for civilization over terror a partisan issue. Yeah, datz da ticket!
And, I think, also considerable consternation among the AIPAC crowd.
it becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party
The blame for this belongs to Obama.
Obama hates Jews and hates Israel and Obama is working very hard to toss Israel under a bus.
Well, if Bama and the Dems would actually be helpful, Bibi might. He recognizes bared teeth, narrowed eyes, and scowls when he sees them.
Didn't top Dem consultants go over and help out the last time Bibi got the boot?
Marshall gets an A+ on the president's talking points.
Hamas is a humanitarian organization. The real enemy is the Republican Party.
Perhaps it's aligned with a single party because the other party has taken up with their enemies.
But the Israelis are not stupid. Nor do they misunderstand American politics. Last night Lou Dobbs was interviewing Israel's ambassador to the UN. Dobbs was asking leading and pointed questions highly critical of Obama. The ambassador would not bite. He was all sweetness and gratitude. Mentioned the Iron Dome over and over. He was not going to bet identified with hostility to Obama.
It should go without saying that the Israel-US alliance becomes more brittle as it becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party.
This is actually a decent point, and it applies not just to this situation; think of the damage to the media's credibility once they fully embraced the Left, the suspicion with which people view the pronouncements of most social scientists, environmentalists, etc.
But if Prof. A is correct here, isn't Marshall setting up a meme where a loss is blamed on...the Juuuuws!? Is that, you know, ugly?
"Brando the Concern Troll admits Obama is against Israel."
Just got out of my meeting of the Obama Fan Club to read this. I was so shocked at being found out I nearly spat up my latte and locally sourced cous cous.
I'd write more, but I'm due back at the drum circle in five.
Israel has barbarians at the gate trying to wipe them out. So not important. Can't they get it through their heads that their continued existence is not helpful to josh and president Obama? I mean gosh! Democrats are going to lose an election because their policies suck. The least bibi could do is stop trying to defend his country.
"as it [Israel] becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party"
Maybe if the Democrats were not such enthusiastic supports of islamo-fascists....
"Nothing gets the Obama administration's ire up like the perception (very often grounded in reality) that Netanyahu and his government ministers are trying to scuttle his initiatives by inveigling themselves into domestic partisan conflict in the US."
Like Bill Clinton's campaign advisors working for Netanyahu's opponent during 1999 Israeli elections.
“If Hamas were destroyed and gone, we would probably end up with something much worse.”
Well, yeah, see, after America and its allies detroyed its western (Nazi Germany) and eastern (Imperial Japan) containment fields we had to contend with a nuclear-armed and expansionist Soviet Union for 50 years.
The smart Clinton/Obama tactic for 20 years has been to divide the Israel hawks from the Israel peace party.
Building castles in the air of a settled Arab state at peace with Israel within secure borders is the dream.
The 1993 peace process conference started it. Arafat's need to stay at war to get free foreign aid scuttled it in 2000.
Since that failed idea ended, Israel has sat there with false assurances of USA as an ally. But that too has ended. It was only a cover for Iran going nuclear.
The need to keep Israel from striking Iran's bomb over the past 6 years has been Obama's goal. But that is all finished now. So Obama is going all out now to destroy Israel.
Sadly, the only thing Obama actually is destroying is the USA.
Delegates and members of the Democratic party booed after former Gov. Ted Strickland (D-OH) discussed God and moved to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
I remember that. I also remember the abuse the delegates heaped upon the boy scouts color guard during the pledge. Real classy people, those democrats.
You can have your countrymen killed by murderous barbarians, or you can face the all-consuming wrath of Obama's Fully Operational Ire.
Hamas rockets and tunnel invasions, or frowns from President Stompy Foot as he contemplates his next putt? If you're Josh Marshall, this is a difficult choice.
I have a useful suggestion for Kerry and the media. Instead of getting involved in this no win situation, Kerry should go to Liberia and supervise American aid to Ebola victims. Nothing would demonstrate America cares more than a picture of Kerry cradling some youthful Ebola victim in hs arms. It would also give David Gregory a pr boost if he could be shown reporting first hand from an Ebola ward.
Sebastian said...
". . . the Israel-US alliance becomes more brittle as it becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party."
Not because the Israelis prefer it that way, but because the Democrats now side with the Palestinians.
_________
There is a correlation between the Democrat party's shift to the left and its increasing support for Palestinians as proxy for Islamic interests and its waning support for Israel.
I can't say for sure if increasing progressive-leftist control of the Democrat party is causing the shift toward Islamic interests and away from Israel, but the American far left clearly has an affinity with Islamist interests.
This goes along with the impeachment scare perpetrated by Obama and his minions. The ties with Israel that exist within the Republican Party have little to do with political advantage for Republicans, but more to do with Conservative perceptions that Israel is the ony possible reliable ally for the US in the Middle East.
Preparing to blame it on the Jewish Lobby?
This is just "the Jews are using the GOP to control U.S. politics." In other words, the old anti-Semite meme of the sneaky manipulative Jew coupled with the old Democrat meme of the evil Republican.
Kerry and Obama are no friends of Israel. They side with the terrorists every time:
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/07/28/Kerry-betray-Israel
So our Jew-hating president gets a kick in the ass. Good.
So our Jew-hating president gets a kick in the ass. Good.
Israelis, unlike so many of their duped American Jewish counterparts, can see that while the Democrats understand, and have an affinity for, national suicide, Republicans understand, and prefer, the idea of self defense.
I've all but given up expecting traditionally leftie-voting Jewish voters to see the light and embrace the only consistent and reliable friends Israel has in this country: Christian conservatives.
-Krumhorn
I stopped paying attention to Marshall years ago. But notice that he is engaging in classic anti-Semitism, that anyone criticizing the Obama is a "proxy" for the Israeli government. A proxy is an agent of someone else, in this case the Jews. A traditional anti-Semitic trope. God forbid that the president's many foreign policy critics actually criticize him in good faith as the world burns.
And then notice how he is completely incapable of criticizing Obama or Kerry, whose uninvited efforts at a cease fire will go into the annals of diplomatic ineptitude.
More than desperation is at issue here. Rather hate and self-delusion.
Wait, didn't US Democractic party hacks (James Carville in particular) help to defeat Netanyahu back in 1999? Now they're complaining when Israel tries to talk to the GOP here?
If Mosaad can come up with BHO's actual birth certificate that might solve a lot of everyone's problems.
"I think there is some advice that you should not mix pot and alcohol."
Good advice. They don't mix at all - the pot just floats to the top and makes a mess.
I have been perplexed at the overwhelmingly Democrat cast (coloration for you Democrat voters) of the American Jews. It has now come back to bite them where it hurts. Dammit...Israel needs constant support from the US administration, not this false balancing of evil vs victim (and Israel IS the victim here)
Israelis are realizing that dealing with the Democrat party leftists is like dealing with the Nazi party. No good can come of it.
It should go without saying that the Israel-US alliance becomes more brittle as it becomes more clearly identified with a single US political party.
It goes without saying that it's due to the administration's abandonment of Israel.
Israel is more popular than Hamas with every segment of the American electorate. The same holds true for any matchup of "Israel" vs. "enemy of Israel" -- Israel vs. Palestine, Israel vs. Turkey, Israel vs. Syria, etc.
Being identified as "the pro-Israel party" would be a huge boon for the GOP. I sincerely doubt Democrats are dumb enough to let that happen.
I've all but given up expecting traditionally leftie-voting Jewish voters to see the light and embrace the only consistent and reliable friends Israel has in this country: Christian conservatives.
Old, Christian conservatives are the only remaining friends Israel has left.
"I notice that there have been 175,000 deaths in the Syrian conflict. I presume some of them were cute children. I can't recall seeing anywhere near the same number of heart rending photos of wounded children."
Oh, you're seeing them as Gaza children injured and killed by Joooz.
One family had the bad luck to get killed in Syria and then again in Gaza. Talk about terrible luck !.
The US should be on the side of Israel and support the quick annihilation of Hamas and free the Palestinian people.
"garage mahal":
Is that a point of pride, for you, that Israel has no friends on the Left?
You will need a sarcasm tag if not.
Actually, I think, Congressional Democrats are generally supportive of Israel. It's one of the few areas where they part company with the administration and much of their base, so perhaps they're less...vociferous in their support than they might be. It's the Obamites who are the real problem here. And apparently Congressional Dems prefer cowering to confrontation.
Q. Why so much wall-to-wall coverage when one of Hamas's human shields (aka Palestinian child) is killed and next to no coverage of the dead children among the 175,000 killed in the Syria uprising?
A. Playing reporter and keeping ones ENG toys charged and ready to record is much safer inside Israel than in Arab country.
__________
Question Authority. (Ask me anything.)
When Netanyahu was Finance Minister (2003-05) he "Thatcherized" Israeli markets and the economy responded favorably. Don't expect Libs to forget that kind of apostasy.
"I can't say for sure if increasing progressive-leftist control of the Democrat party is causing the shift toward Islamic interests and away from Israel, but the American far left clearly has an affinity with Islamist interests."
When Israel was weak and Socialist, they had lots of friends in the Democrats and the left, which were not at that time synonymous.
Netanyahu has had the temerity to abandon Socialism and has the Israeli economy booming. That cannot be permitted by the left.
I just wish the lefty feminists would volunteer to be human shields.
Old, Christian conservatives are the only remaining friends Israel has left.
Replace "old, Christian conservatives" with "Americans in general" and that's pretty much the case.
On mixing pot and alcohol...
I've always wanted to try making a batch of beer, substituting mj for hops, just to see what kind of kick it would have.
Probably would not be cost effective and a total waste of good pot.
"Old, Christian conservatives are the only remaining friends Israel has left."
I'm a mid-fifties married conservative atheist white male friend-of-Israel professional who was taught in school how Israel came about, how it almost died repeatedly by venal means, and how it finally endured and flowered.
Instead of a data-set consisting of conclusory statements annointing the Good and the Bad - "closed borders is racist and selfish", "less government charity is always evil", "some people have more because they were better thieves", and the like - which is what most people under forty-five have always been given to build their philosophies upon - people my age and over were taught the facts of the occurrences - the dates of wars' beginnings, who went where and did what, what tribes were around forever and which are new wanderers, who the leaders were and what the leaders said and did - we got timelines and bios and map progressions . . .
And then we would all - each of us - churn the facts around by ourselves for a bit and apply those facts projected onto our moral system and thus we'd know subconsciously - but eerily in common among us - who the Bad Guys were.
So, people like me will also always do what they can do to help Israel.
Nowadays, teachers and leaders simply want the People to remember slogans and conclusions - "friends of Israel are racist and love it when poor people are killed", etc. - because the verifiable and well-known facts of the situation do not lead anyone who examines those facts to conclude that Israel is Bluto and Hamas is Popeye.
Teaching bad facts doesn't get them to the targeted "Wrong But Accurate" grouptheme, so the facts become irrelevant and they skip all of the chaff and jump right to "and here's what you believe, see?"
But, yeah, it's not just the religious right. It's also the well-taught.
"Netanyahu and his government ministers are trying to scuttle his initiatives by inveigling themselves into domestic partisan conflict in the US."
Which initiatives, Josh? Noticed you don't allow comments, Josh.
Josh Marshall's statement there is a blood libel, a term that I do not use loosely. That he linked to Haaretz means nothing. Haaretz is the NYT of Israel.
For his next editorial, I expect Josh Marshall to enthrall us with matzo recipes he got from Al Jazeera.
I wish Jews who support Democrats had a better sense of the toxic repercussions of supporting people who eagerly work to see more Israelis murdered by terrorists.
Garage: "Old, Christian conservatives are the only remaining friends Israel has left."
Actually, it only seems that way to unthinking, Democrat anti-Semites like yourself because other members of your circle jerk are too preoccupied with their own genitalia, baby-killing and race-baiting, to sweat the small things like the economy, geopolitics and border security.
Garage does have the uncanny talent for being ignorant and a complete a-hole in just about every one of his posts.
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