If you're going with the "virgin" metaphor, I don't think you can have levels. You don't get to be a "virgin" at multiple levels. Unless she'd never been humiliated before — and did Bill Clinton not humiliate her? — then she was not a humiliation virgin at the point when Ken Starr released his dry, detailed descriptions of her interactions with Bill. But it is funny for someone who chose a lot of daring and transgressive sexual activities with our sexy President to attempt to con us into thinking that she lost her virginity to the snoopy prosecutor who enabled the President's constituents to visualize what she had done.
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Some people are entranced by sexual humiliation. If they weren't, 50 Shades of Grey would have languished in the out take bins instead of making it's author rich.
Starr penetrated her zone of privacy, which is humiliating and disturbing. That's not necessarily so for a consensual penetration of her private parts (which Clinton never did).
Humiliation by forbidden sexual relationships is the danger that excites human Monicas and Bills into doing it. Getting away with doing it proves their power.
They just don't think it's at all fair that they were the one's who got caught doing it. Getting caught is for the little people.
But I bet they both still do it all of the time for the excitement of defeating the Ken Starr enforcers of the legalistic culture.
You mean she wasn't humiliated by the public attacks on her character and motivations by then-First-Lady Hillary Clinton?
Bad metaphor alert.
Lewinsky was a moth to Bill Clinton's flame. But where the moth perishes in the flame, she only lost her virginity to humiliation.
Glad I'm not submitting this in a university English class.
At any rate she couldn't have been a true virgin since she could fit a cigar into her vagina.
Let's review.
The President of the United States and a young female intern. Emphasis "young". In the office on official "company" time.
Change the name to say "Bush" or any CEO and the media would be full of words like "Inappropriate", "Abuse of Power", "Sexual Harassment" and so on....
But Democrats get a free card, 'cuz "It's just private consensual sex."
Her problem was that she did not, or refused to, notice what a sleazeball horndog Bill was. Well, one of her problems.
Hillary was no virgin to humiliation by Bill but Hillaryn was a virgin to the kind of public outing of Bill's sexual proclivities the Starr report caused.
She must be recalling footnote 220.
I think the country was a virgin at that level of humiliation.
But it is funny for someone who chose a lot of daring and transgressive sexual activities with our sexy President to attempt to con us into thinking that she lost her virginity to the snoopy prosecutor who enabled the President's constituents to visualize what she had done.
done in a public building, in the public areas (e.g. not in the private family space), done while both were on duty as it were...
That's not necessarily so for a consensual penetration of her private parts (which Clinton never did).
I thought he used a cigar?
I believe Ann is over thinking this. All Monica Lewinski is saying is that she never felt the level of humiliation the Ken Starr report produced. There is no other hidden or metaphorical meaning.
I think there is a big difference between private and public. What happened between Clinton and Lewinsky was private (right/wrong/humiliating it was not public).
I am sure there are many moments in all of our private lives we would be horrified to be written about in public.
If she feels like “the most humiliated woman in the world," why would she accept a TV interview?
Everyone knows what she's known for. If she finds that humiliating, why would she want to go on TV to talk about it?
Awesome, A.A.!
My favorite virgin remains this one.
"You see how picky I am about my shoes and they only go on my feet."
Um; there's a market in the Middle East and in Asia for doctors who will skillfully repair a broken hymen. After all there's a desire for "virgin brides" and if a young lady has slipped from the paths of premarital chastity, what is she to do? Well, you get a repair job.
Did Ms. Lewinsky get a "repair job" as well post insertion of Billy Jeff's cigar? Inquiring minds want to know.
Actually what I want to know from or about Ms. Lewinsky at this point can be characterized as zero, zip, nada and zilch. She not only should be allowed to, she should slip away into a quiet place where her memory--and voice--trouble us not.
I was a virgin to humiliation... until that day.”
Oh, come on! Doesn't that sound that the opening line from a steamy bodice-ripper about some chick taken captive by a Caribbean pirate captain?
Maybe that can be Lewinsky's next career: starting her own line of romance novels. She's just got the plot line for the first one. I'll even throw in the title --- Bound for Desire --- for free! Can't help with the cover art, though.
"You don't get to be a "virgin" at multiple levels."
She's talking about levels of humiliation, not levels of virginity. The English is pretty plain and straight forward.
Humiliated?
This is the woman with the cigar in her pussy?
Ken Starr suffered greater damage to his professional reputation than did Bill Clinton. Even his personal reputation took a greater hit. A bj in the Oval Office is just sex, but investigating that bj with too much zeal is the mark of a perv. Don't trust your kids alone with Ken Starr. There's something wrong about this, but that's the way the story has played out........As for Monica, she was hors de combat from the first blow. She showed a certain amount of tactical skill in keeping the dress, but there was no way she could come out ahead......Well, she can take some comfort in knowing that Linda Tripp got worse publicity. Edward Snowden is a whistleblower and Linda Tripp is a traitor.
You mean the "snoopy prosecutor" who sought and obtained the go-ahead every step of the way from then-Attorney General Janet Reno.
That whole affair was a good example of the GOP overplaying its hand. Ultimately, the investigation (called for by Clinton's own DOJ, pursuant to the Independent Counsel statute) produced public evidence that Clinton was a creep and a perjurer. This largely confirmed what a lot of his critics thought of him, but also took some of his shine off for his supporters.
But then to impeach him--to use the most severe weapon Congress has against a president--for the crime of perjury just struck most Americans as overkill. Yes, the Clintonites were being typically glib and full of it when they said "they're impeaching him because he had oral sex!", as if the articles of impeachment actually cited that, but the real reason for impeaching him always seemed like using a hand grenade to kill an ant. It helped the left circle the wagons around a guy that many of them had good reason to distrust (due to welfare reform, DOMA, and other sellouts by this creep) because they now had a common enemy (overzealous Republicans). It turned off moderates who saw a booming economy and a president who was a creep and a minor criminal but thought kicking him out of office was a bit much. And had it somehow succeeded in removing the guy, we would have given Al Gore a leg up for 2000.
The way Democrats have acted when they're in power should make it easy for the GOP to position itself as the "party of adults". But stunts like government shutdowns and impeachments only make them look out of control and lacking in perspective. You can't be the majority party without the moderates, and they're the ones who want stable, responsible leadership.
She was not a child. She made her bed.
Actual;y I think she was not humiliated by what she did with Bill. She had no shame at that point It is only when it became public nationally that she was forced to feel shame and thus was humiliated
Amexpat said...
Starr penetrated her zone of privacy, which is humiliating and disturbing. That's not necessarily so for a consensual penetration of her private parts (which Clinton never did).
Except, reportedly, with one or more cigars.
Looking at how the media protects Obama and how the republicans are so impotent, all I can say is Bill and Monica were not so lucky as Obama.
Starr did his job and told the truth. The truth was damaging to a Democrat. Thus Starr is a creep and and abuser and a combatant in the War on Women.
This is the fault of those mean Republican MEN and they all ought to apologize to poor Ms. Lewinsky.
Amexpat said... That's not necessarily so for a consensual penetration of her private parts (which Clinton never did).
Hey, so when is a cigar not just a cigar, again?
I think the virgin metaphor works just fine. It's not the virginity that has levels. It's the humiliation. We routinely refer to sex as having levels (e.g. the baseball metaphor.) And people do refer themselves as virgins with respect to more than one sex act. The level of humiliation is pretty far removed from talking though dinner with spinach on your teeth.
Partisan prosecutor goes all out to take down a president, engineers pseudo-crime and spends millions of taxpayer dollars to do so, affirmatively ruins young woman's life in the process and distracts the entire federal government for a year.
Althouse: It's a con job! That never happened!
And here I thought it was the cigar in the cooch that took her humili-virgin status away.
Amirite, Amexpat?
“To have my narrative ripped from me, and turn into the Starr report, and things that were turned over or things they delved out of my computer that I thought were deleted. I mean it was just violation after violation,” Lewinsky said.
What a perfect encapsulation of the (post)modern Left mindset! Hell, maybe not just the Left.
Pres. Clinton lied. She lied. They lied to Federal officials. The lies were exposed (and proven to be lies only with DNA!). "Her narrative" was a lie! Her "private" actions had to be made public in order to prove that her fella was lying. To demonstrate perjury! She thought she had successfully destroyed evidence, but no, that information was delved into--can you believe it!?
Whom to blame? Herself, for her actions? The Pres, for his actions and lies? Of course not, no; the blame is with those who violated her, who ripped her narrative from her, who had the audacity to tell the truth in the context of doing their duly-appointed jobs. Men!
The more Lewinsky talks, the worse Bill and Hillary look. It reminds us that he preyed exclusively on women who were his intellectual and social inferiors, and Hillary did her part by helping to destroy the victim's reputation.
What Lewinsky did was foolish, daring, and reckless. Bill Clinton's response was narcissistic and psychotic.
I recommend reading the Starr report for anyone who hasn't. Lots of disturbing details in there.
http://www.cnn.com/starr.report/6cnarrit.htm#L35
But lest we forget, it was all part of a Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!
"engineers pseudo-crime"..
yeah, like perjury, witness tampering, obstruction of justice....
That Ken Starr, he certainly is some legal engineer!!
Ditto the judge and special counsel who declared Clinton in contempt of court, and made Clinton pay heavy fines, respectively..
Ditto the Alabama court system and the Supremes, who stripped him of his law license.
/snark
I think there is a big difference between private and public. What happened between Clinton and Lewinsky was private
Nothing that occurs in the Oval Office, is, or should be, private.
My thought on Bill Clinton--and I am not a psychiatrist, nowhere near a psychiatrist, this is entirely amateur psychiatry--is that he is subconsciously hostile to his mother, and his wife.
He married his wife because she reminds him of his mother. And he loves her, but there is a submerged hostility there. He might not even be aware of it.
I believe Clinton sleeps with other women to let his monster out. And by "monster" I mean hostility to his mother and his wife. And in these private sexual relationships, he treats these women very, very badly. All his submerged anger against his wife and his mother comes out. These women see a really ugly side to him. A side that we do not see in public. In public Bill Clinton is a very nice, open, easy-going man. He is a fun-loving man.
But, it seems to me, when he is in a one-on-one situation with a woman, his behavior is often quite bad. I believe that he pulled out his penis and told a woman to kiss it. I believe that Juanita Broderick said "no" and Clinton did not care.
I will never understand the level of scorn toward Monica that you display. She had sex with someone she shouldn't have had sex with. She didn't and doesn't deserve the very public humiliation she has suffered. That humiliation hasn't even touched Bill Clinton, who also had sex with someone he shouldn't have had sex with. That's twisted.
"I was a virgin to humiliation."
It's an interesting choice of words, to put it mildly. She's adopting the word "virgin" to suggest innocence, sexual innocence. She was an innocent woman until Ken Starr violated her.
The problem of course is that she was having a sexual affair with the President of the United States, who is a married man. She was not a sexual innocent. Bill Clinton committed perjury--a felony--and Kenneth Starr was going after him.
You can argue that Starr, and the Republican Party, were disrespectful to her sexual privacy. Clearly that's the way she wants to frame it.
I suspect, in my cynical way, that the Clintons have gotten some money to Miss Monica Lewinsky, which is why Bill is not longer "the creep".
On the other hand, I could be completely wrong.
How does it help Bill, or Hillary, for Monica Lewinsky to start doing interviews? Why is she bringing this stuff up again?
Maybe the Republicans are paying her, or some other Democrat operatives are paying her. She's attacking Republicans, but her name, her face, remind us of Bill Clinton and impeachment scandals.
Maybe Joe Biden is paying Monica Lewinsky! (Although frankly I don't see Biden as that devious).
I am just scratching my head and wondering why Monica Lewinksy wants to be back in the public eye attacking Ken Starr. It is so 16 years ago. All the kids are going, "who?"
There's a Japanese movie called, Go, Go Second Time Virgin that I had in my netflix queue forever, and now the damn thing is out of print. I still haven't seen it.
Go, Go, Second-Time Virgin!
Partisan prosecutor goes all out to take down a president, engineers pseudo-crime and spends millions of taxpayer dollars to do so, affirmatively ruins young woman's life in the process and distracts the entire federal government for a year.
I find it odd that Clinton stonewalls the investigation from start to finish, causing huge expense to deal with, and yet Starr is the one wasting money.
Know what the difference between Starr and, say, Fitzgerald is? Starr actually found criminals.
"I will never understand the level of scorn toward Monica that you display."
I can't speak for others, but I have no scorn for Monica, except that I think it's in bad taste to fool around with someone you know is married (though far worse blame is on that married person, as they're the one that took the vows). She tried to capitalize on her fame, which is her right--after all, if you're going through the mud you might as well get what you can--it's not like you can really build a normal life after that.
I think Clinton is a creep for many other reasons, but as for his chronic cheating on Hillary I try to reserve judgment--I have no idea if they have some sort of "arrangement" or whether he has some problem coupled with poor judgment that leads him to constantly sleep around. Not really my business, but I certainly will pass judgment on him for the more "sexual predator" stuff he does (Paula Jones, Kathleen Willey, Broderick) and the attempts to trash the reputation of any woman foolish enough to get involved with him. They're signs of poor character, even if they don't have a direct impact on his job as president.
In order to prevent future damage to her joints, I hope she used knee pads as do carpet installers.
stunts like government shutdowns and impeachments only make them look out of control and lacking in perspective.
If you don't go all out then the base thinks you're a coward and a RINO.
Ya can't win.
Ken Starr's investigation was begun because of accusations that Bill Clinton had engaged in sexual harassment and assault. Not mere "fooling around" with consenting adults. But since Clinton was a Democrat this has been conveniently forgotten.
"yeah, like perjury, witness tampering, obstruction of justice...."
For many on the left, any crime can be excuses, even murder, if the criminal is "of the left".
>> That humiliation hasn't even touched Bill Clinton, who also had sex with someone he shouldn't have had sex with.
With fundamentally flawed premises like that, no wonder you are all tied up in knots.
Bill Clinton has been, is, and forever more will be, THE HORNY PRESIDENT. That's his legacy in the public consciousness. If you think that doesn't eat away at that pathological narcissist's self-loving core every damn day, you are kidding yourself.
I guess Monica missed the part where Hillary and company were trying very hard to make the case that she was a nut. She was supposed to be some kind of weird stalker chick who made up a fantasy about being with the president. The evidence against her included interviews with former WH interns who claimed there was no way she could have gotten that close. It was a very damning case right up until the blue dress. But yeah, it was Ken Starr who humiliated her.
Bill Clinton perjured himself by lying in a court deposition before a Federal judge in the Paula Jones case, thus obstructing justice and depriving a citizen of her day in court.
That may not be "high crimes and misdemeanors" to some commenters hereon, but it sure is a common "low" crime, and especially abhorrent in our Chief Executive.
Ken Starr is removing invisible panties from an invisible deponent in that photo, right?
Monica saved the dress because she knew she might be called on it, and she knew she would need proof. If she really loved and respected him, she knows where the semen should have gone. She would have tried to make a baby.
That's what you do when you have sex with someone you love and respect.
The Starr report is a trigger for me. It compels me to be completely disinterested in rehashing the 90s for the billionth fuckin' time.
I know Althouse and Rush have criticized the Ed Klein book. Rush has read it and scoffs. Althouse scoffs, so she's not reading it.
Me, I never say ditto. I'm the Republican who says corporations aren't people. I've already done my be-fair-to-the-other-side duty for the week. So I'm reading the dirty, muckraking, anonymous gossip.
It's awesome! I say turn off your cynic's hat and enjoy the damn thing. It's confirming every suspicion I've had about all four of them. It's popcorn for my mind.
Klein quotes HIllary: "I've told (Bill) that when we are back in the White House, he'll have to behave. He laughed hysterically. We are at that point when we can joke about it. You have to love him. I do."
Klein quotes HIllary again, this time about Obama. "You can't trust the motherfucker."
I don't know if his quotes are right. But damn they sound right. And I have no idea why the New York Times and Newsweek reporter has decided to nuke both the Clintons and the Obamas simultaneously. But I'm ready to give him the Nobel Prize. If not for peace, than for war. Or dirty tricks. Whatever.
Best journalism ever! I say he's Bob Woodward. And if it turns out to be yellow journalism and a foul piece of trash, hey, the NYT did it. Either way it's a win. They're eating their own!
It's great beach reading, I swear. What can I say, I trust the NYT! Your anonymous sources are fine by me. Tell it, Deep Throat, tell it!
Ken Starr is removing invisible panties from an invisible deponent in that photo, right?
LOL. That's exactly how I look when I do it.
Nothing that occurs in the Oval Office, is, or should be, private.
Edward Snowden agrees with you.
Oh, there you go again with your purity and dichotomous binaries. Do you have problems with proportionality?
...transgressive sexual activities with our sexy President…
Yes! Transgressive! The American people had so much judgment they HAD to direct to the president for this affair and if anything, felt that the special persecutor didn't give them enough information with which to judge this obviously disqualifying affair.
...to attempt to con us into thinking that she lost her virginity to the snoopy prosecutor…
Snoopy? His interest in the full details of every sex act and liaison was entirely normal and healthy!
...who enabled the President's constituents to visualize what she had done.
Yes. "Enabled." Let's make as impersonal as possible all the graphic details that the Starr Pornogreport inflicted upon us. We just couldn't get enough details without him.
Seriously, at this point, what is it about the former intern and former president's genitals and sex acts that interest you? Or is it only while in office that you care?
I find this much impersonal interest in other people's sex lives to be pretty nauseating. But I guess I must have better boundaries than you. Or maybe just a better sex life.
Or both.
"I was a virgin to humiliation".
Oh hellfire, wasn't she ever looked won on by the "mean girls" or the "in crowd" in her high school? I don't believe that Lewinsky was ever part of the 'in crowd" in her junior high and high school days. And humiliation by your fellow students there is frequently the order of the day.
Go away Monica; zip your lip and don't pester us any more with the stories of your knee pad days in the White House. Heard it before; don't need to hear it again.
The fact that we all know about Monica is not the fault of
Kenny Starr. It's the fault of Bill Clinton.
I supported the guy at the time. But in retrospect the guy was a complete cad and deserved
To have his dirty laundry aired In public.
Bob packwood was hounded out of office for doing less, and packwood wasn't the president.
Must be pretty humiliating to know your last name is a metaphor worthy of inclusion in the Urban Dictionary.
Sorry could be just stop talking about Monica, well forever?
I don't know what's more absurd, the idea of this "land whale" waddling up to the President of the USA with a Pizza and a cigar, or the fact that we elected Billy Bob Clinton to hold the same office as Jefferson, Lincoln, or TR.
Of course for sheer cynicism, Obama takes the cake. He'll ignore the law, and refuse to protect the USA from invasion by illegal aliens.
To misquote John Marshall: "Congress has made their laws, now let them enforce it".
Ken Starr didn't release the report to the public. Ken Starr forwarded his report to Congress, as he was required to by law. Congress decided to release the report to the public.
You want to demonize Newt Gingrich for the public humiliation that resulted from the public release, hey, be my guest. But criticizing Ken Starr for the release is just stupid.
Again, she wasn't having an affair. She was giving blow jobs to some asshole creep that didn't even know her name.
prairie wind said...
I will never understand the level of scorn toward Monica that you display. She had sex with someone she shouldn't have had sex with. She didn't and doesn't deserve the very public humiliation she has suffered. That humiliation hasn't even touched Bill Clinton, who also had sex with someone he shouldn't have had sex with. That's twisted.
That who displays? Lewinsky was/is stupid. She's to be pitied. Clinton at the very least exercised poor judgment. Following his dick everywhere it took him. Not a quality this country needs in a chief executive.
His legacy will never be redeemed. Where ever he goes what ever he does Lewinsky will be right there beside him.
I take issue with you calling Bill Clinton "our sexy President" -- he is and was not "sexy". He was a slimeball, I would not buy a used car from him, if I ran into him at a party, I would move away from him. He is lecherous and perverted. He should have been prosecuted for many of the sex related crimes he committed. Any regular citizen who did what he did would be a registered sex offender.
Snoopy? His interest in the full details of every sex act and liaison was entirely normal and healthy!
Clinton denied ANY sexual contact whatsoever. An investigation into this would kind of need to clarify that sex occurred and then to define what that sex was.
Starr was doing the job asked of him.
Seriously, at this point, what is it about the former intern and former president's genitals and sex acts that interest you?
You are aware that this kind of thing was what one investigated in sexual harassment claims in those days (before feminists decided Democrats get a free grope of any woman of their choice), right?
You had to EXPLAIN what was done. Hell, Clarence Thomas had his privacy violated far worse than Lewinsky ever did --- and he didn't even do anything.
Meh. Kathleen Janoski and Nolanda Hill provide much more compelling tales of humiliation and intimidation, but without Monica's novel moistening methods, no cigar.
You are aware that this kind of thing was what one investigated in sexual harassment claims in those days (before feminists decided Democrats get a free grope of any woman of their choice), right?
You had to EXPLAIN what was done. Hell, Clarence Thomas had his privacy violated far worse than Lewinsky ever did --- and he didn't even do anything.
There was no sexual harassment issue raised with Lewinsky, so raising it here, although apparently offering you the perceived opportunity to avenge someone who was actually accused of harassment, has nothing to do with that thing.
Focus people. Focus. Anita Hill did not throw herself at Thomas like Lewinsky did Clinton. Refusing to see that is a delusion of epic proportions. But conservative harassers must be avenged so I guess whichever kitchen sink is available will do.
"Monica saved the dress because she knew she might be called on it, and she knew she would need proof."
For all the talk of her so-called limited intelligence, that was a pretty bright move. She wasn't so naive that she didn't know how the Clinton White House handled the bimbo-eruptions. She knew she'd be very expendable if the news ever got out. So the dress remained uncleaned until it was needed. Notice how quickly the "she's a crazy psycho stalker" narrative disappeared when the dress became public knowledge. After that, the Clinton people couldn't do enough to keep her happy and quiet.
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