That didn’t stop my father from (sort of) jokingly asking, upon my return from Kenya last month, “Did you feel different when you landed in the motherland?” What he meant, of course, was whether I felt as if I’d returned “home” to a place I’d never before been. People have spent their whole lives hoping to find the equivalent of their own personal Zion. Had I?
July 30, 2014
"As someone who grew up with a much stronger sense of my black American roots, and an understanding of African culture distilled primarily through an American sensibility..."
"... I feel as though the term African-American doesn’t quite suit my identity."
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I remember seeing a video clip of Whoopi Goldberg on some awards show (judging from the gown she was wearing). She called herself an American, and then said something like, "I know, I'm supposed to call myself an African-American. I've been to Africa. Believe me, I'm an American."
And I thought: Hooray! (Sincerely.) That's not to slam anyone who self-identifies as African-American, I'm just saying Goldberg was, IMHO, equally entitled to her self-identification.
How long before a new ethnicity is created. So the Normans conquered England 1000 years ago. The Spanish invaded Mexico over 400 years ago. The height of the slave trade was over 200 years ago.
Is ethnicity/nationality only skin deep.
(PS Sorry for the Crack bait.)
I was about 7 or 8 when my dad sat me down to watch Roots—all 500 hours of it—
LOL!
I'm descended from English immigrants. I wonder if I visit Russia, will I find my white roots?
African American always struck me as insulting in the same way that colored or negro are insulting. Essentially you're saying that someone is an eternal outsider because of the color of their skin. Of course since Jesse Jackson is the spokesperson for all black Americans and Canadians we are obligated to use the term.
The most amusing\sad thing is watching US news reports on various European nations and referring to blacks there as "African-American". How someone who has never been to Africa or America is considered such, I'm still unclear on. I'm sure someone will be along to explain to my how I'm racist for finding the knots the media will tie themselves in to avoid describing someone as "black".
I know it's an outdated term, but I always thought "negro" made the most sense:
1) "Black" has negative connotations as a color, suggesting something negative. Also, when referring to something "black"--like "black humor"--it can be misleading as it isn't clear if you're talking about black people or something else.
2) "African American" is not just a mouthful, but it isn't entirely correct either--many north African arabs or white Africans are included in that term, when the term is used normally to refer to black people. Plus, it gets messier when referring to blacks from other countries--does anyone say "African Britons"?
3) "Negro" was the accepted term around the time the civil rights movement made its greatest strides, in the mid 20th Century, and it wasn't created or adopted as a pejorative. It simply means "black" but is only used (in English) to refer to black people. It can be used internationally--"African negro", "Caribbean negro", "European negro"--without confusion or insult.
Besides that, though, call yourself what you want, and if you disapprove of the term someone else uses at least consider their intentions and context.
"Essentially you're saying that someone is an eternal outsider because of the color of their skin."
Yes, that's the point. Eternal outsiders owed eternal reparations.
Negro is just Spanish, or in this case, Portuguese, for Black, and it is no more insulting than Germanic is to describe me. That is just the term used for people who more or less look like me, and so are probably descended from one of the Germanic tribes from what is today southern Russia that invaded the northern European countries in the Migration Period.
All she needed to do was read "Out Of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa by Keith B. Richburg" to get the real deal on living in Africa. Not just visiting.
Also, most black Americans are from West Africa but insist on identifying with East Africa. It would be like European Americans going to Rumania to find there 'roots'.
My family lived in Africa 20 years and my second and third daughters were born on that continent. When the youngest went to college in Ohio she attended an African-American social club mixer and was told she was not welcome -- that despite the fact she knew more about Africa than anyone there and felt stronger ties to the land of her youth. Once graduated, she joined the Peace Corps and was sent to Niger. She described her view from the arriving airplane as "returning home" because of the look of the land below her. Judging on her experience and other things I have observed over the years, it is hard to believe the term African-American has anything to do with Africa.
I am an American-American or Native American. I sure as Hell was born here and that makes me a native. I couldn't care less where my "folks" came from.
I won't even throw Texan at you!
Negro is a fine word. The lady could have simply said she is from Connecticut.
I was an Assistant DA in Brooklyn in the early '90s, when "African-American" was gaining currency.
I began using the term, and did so right up until I was advised by one lady that "not all of us come from Africa, sir."
I've just used "black" ever since, and have never had any similar issues.
If you're a staff writer at Slate, you might think of something to write about that will be read beyond the first line.
Just as a professional thing.
All of us Anglos are English, right? Even Italian Anglos. Or are they Hispanic?
I can never keep my identity papers in order.
Back during the Roots era, I remember reading about a man who made a pilgrimage to Africa, expecting a "Welcome home, Brother!" reception. Instead he was treated like dirt by the immigration and customs officers because he was an American, and he didn't look like he was from the right tribe.
Along the same lines, I highly recommend, "Out of America - A Black Man Confronts Africa", by Keith B. Richburg, reporter Bureau Chief of the Wash. Post.
"Thank God my nameless ancestor, brought across the ocean in chains and leg irons, made it out alive. Thank God I am an American."
"Keith Richburg, a highly respected reporter for the Washington Post, had paid his dues covering the urban neighborhoods of our capital city. But nothing prepared him for the extraordinary personal odyssey that he would embark upon when he was sent to Africa to be the Post's chief correspondent on the continent. As he journeys from Somalia to Rwanda to S. Africa, and observes with increasing horror the routine of murder, brutal dictatorship, and warfare, he is forced to face directly the divide within himself, between his African racial heritage and his American cultural identity."
http://www.amazon.com/Out-Of-America-Confronts-Africa/dp/0465001882/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1406734733&sr=8-1&keywords=out+of+america
@ Alan N: Have to agree. An American is an American. White, black, or purple.
@ Brando: Negro may be accurate but it migrates to easily into the hated N word and its derivatives.
When you identify yourself as black American, African American, Hispanic American, Chinese American,... you are leaving American without a label to mean White American. You surrender America to white people, then you gripe about how white people dominate America. That is stupid.
Labels are used to corral the labeled people to support their self-identified leaders to obtain power and riches for themselves.
Money and power are the strongest incentives and aphrodisiacs to the power hungry.
Blacks who don't support their black "leaders" are not really black. Women who disagree with the feminist sisterhood are not really women, e.g. Palin. They want to strip their enemy's identity, ostracize them from their tribes. It's easier to intimidate and dominate the weaklings, especially those who don't have a brain to think for themselves.
@Bando,
It's interesting how the accepted name has changed over time. Whenever a new term is introduced, there is social pressure to use it. However, the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) never changed their name. Neither did the United Negro College Fund, the Congressional Black Caucus, or Black Entertainment TV (I think, networks change names all the time).
From memory, it was back in the 1960s and 70s that black was the preferred term. Among others, there was Black Power and Black is Beautiful to claim a positive image for the color black. It was around the 1980s that people didn't want to be identified by the color of their skin so they started using the term African-American. While I can understand the sentiment, it would've meant more more if they also extended the same consideration to People of Palor and didn't call us white.
Since someone already posted a Seinfeld clip on another thread: "I'm from Michigan."
The blacks who seek an African identity seek a chimera. Africa, even just south Saharan Africa, is a huge place, with ancient cultures separated from each other not only by large distances, but by nearly impenetrable natural barriers.
The tribal identities of Africa are every bit as "fixed" as the national identities of the first world. Matter of fact, the tribal identities of Africa are probably more distinctive. However far from one another are the national identities of a Finn & a Portuguese, at least, they were, at one time in their ancient history both Catholic. Had there ever been anything that united the (Nigerian) Yoruba & the (South African) Xhosa until they both found themselves unwilling subjects of Her Majesty the Queen in the 19th C.?
I've always disliked the flattening of African history in order to make it a politically useful narrative to the black diaspora to be, well, "racist".
I've had conversations with black Americans in which they dropped the mask and in an unguarded comment referred to Africa as the Motherland. Nice to know, isn't it? I mean, ultimately where peoples' allegiances lie, even when they lie to your face.
Given that and having read stuff about the author of the linked article, after reading both pages of her article I admit that I like her a lot more than before reading her article. So I recommend reading the entire thing.
She seems like someone with whom it would be fun to be a colleague. And an American.
The most amusing\sad thing is watching US news reports on various European nations and referring to blacks there as "African-American"
No, the most amusing/sad thing is to watch some white talking head, especially one from the left, switch back and forth from "black" to "African-American" to "people of color" all in one segment. After I noticed it the first time, I was a bit surprised just how often it happens.
I remember visiting Germany to get in touch with my German roots. Then I remembered they killed off most of any family I had that stayed and got the hell out of there.
Darury, I recall a brouhaha a few years ago over a boy calling himself an African-American--he was from South Africa, and one of the white tribe.
Welcome to the American tribe. We are all Americans now. It is only natural that people identify with the place and people with whom they live, work, play, and share a common morality.
Then there was the spelling checker at a newspaper that changed a fashion writer's "little black dress" to "little African American dress".
A long time ago, the Washington Post chief African correspondent who was an American of African descent, told the story of waiting in front of a fancy hotel somewhere in Africa ( I don't remember). And as people do he kept track of who was there before him, and he knew that it was his turn for the next cab. And as the cab pulled up, the doorman shouted, "This one is for the white man; this one is for the white man." And as the correspondent began to huff and puff in righteous indigation, he realized that the doorman was referring to him. In the eyes of the African doorman, this African American Washington Post corespondent was "the white man."
"When it's one on one, if some guy wants me to call him a morbidly obese, African-ancestored male with a same-gendered sexual orientation I'll be glad to do that. On the other hand, if he wants me to call him a fat nigger cocksucker, then that's what it will be. I'm here to please.
If I meet a woman who wishes to be referred to as a motion-impaired, same-gender-oriented Italian-American who is difficult to deal with, fine. On the other hand, I am perfectly willing to call her a crippled, Guinea dyke cunt if she prefers. I'm not trying to change anyone's self-image."
-George Carlin
John Henry
Many cab drivers in Atlanta hail from Africa, mostly from the west. If you ask them where they are from and then describe them as African Americans they will howl with laughter. Every time. They think the appellation is hilarious and are totally and immediately with the irony.
If I drop American from, let's say, Italtian-American when describing a neighborhood no one would be insulted. I'm not sure that would be the case if I did the same with African-American.
"Hispanic" is even worse.
What the Hell is a Hispanic? Is my former boss H3nry St0larzyk Hispanic?
He was born in Argentina, his parents were born in Argentina. His grandparents were born in in Poland.
Or Bernardo O'Higgins, the great South American liberator?
To Alejandro O'Reilly and Tomas O'Daly who built El Morro Fortress in San Juan in the 1500's.
Or Fidel Castro whose father was born in Spain?
Argentina had so many Italian immigrants that Argentine Spanish sounds more like Italian than Spanish.
Most South Americans have no Spanish ancestry whatever.
Brazilians do not even speak Spanish yet are considered Hispanic by the Federal govt.
And so on.
It's all a bunch of crap.
I am Puerto Rican (lived here for 43 years but not Hispanic (unless speaking Spanish makes me so)
My son, when he uses Ju0n T0mas Henry-S@nchez is legally Hispanic. When he uses plain old J0hn Th0mas Henry, he is not.
John Henry
Eric Holder's parents are from Barbados.
In Barbados they are officially considered "white".
John Henry
MisterBuddwing,
"Goldberg was, IMHO, equally entitled to her self-identification."
I identify as black, but I don't know a single black who debates this - either is fine with us.
Alan N,
"African American always struck me as insulting in the same way that colored or negro are insulting. Essentially you're saying that someone is an eternal outsider because of the color of their skin. Of course since Jesse Jackson is the spokesperson for all black Americans and Canadians we are obligated to use the term."
What a silly thing to say - Jesse Jackson may have coined the term, but the message off exclusion is purely a white invention so save your insult for the mirror, history, or the country itself.
Making blacks unravel the racist psychological maze whites have prospered from is part of the problem, but then judging our efforts as inadequate - when you don't even appreciate what starting from whites calling us "niggers" is like - THAT's insulting.
And also reparations-worthy.
Darury,
"I'm sure someone will be along to explain to my how I'm racist for finding the knots the media will tie themselves in to avoid describing someone as "black"."
You're "sure" because you know you're being racist, and - in decent company - someone WILL call you on it.
White racists aren't being cute talking like you do.
Brando,
"I know it's an outdated term, but I always thought "negro" made the most sense"
Culture doesn't always "make sense" - and doesn't have to - plus, it changes with time, as have the terms blacks refer to themselves as we leave bondage and discover who we are.
It's wild whites are so - what?
Sheltered? Ignorant? In denial? In the throughs of propaganda?
That they don't understand ANY of this is crazy. And they're almost exclusively responsible for it.
It's just insane.
F,
"When the youngest went to college in Ohio she attended an African-American social club mixer and was told she was not welcome -- that despite the fact she knew more about Africa than anyone there and felt stronger ties to the land of her youth."
WTF? How does "the fact she knew more about Africa" make her a socially acceptable person to black Americans?
What you're saying is, both, you and your kid don't have a clue who we are and thought being from Africa gave you a ghetto pass. Just silly.
Clayton Hennesey,
"All of us Anglos are English, right? Even Italian Anglos. Or are they Hispanic?"
Check with your white leaders. Italians didn't used to be "white" - neither were the Irish - while Hispanics seem to let their racism jell with white American's pretty well, allowing Ted Cruz a bit of movement in that direction. Ask him.
Annie ,
"As he journeys from Somalia to Rwanda to S. Africa, and observes with increasing horror the routine of murder, brutal dictatorship, and warfare, he is forced to face directly the divide within himself, between his African racial heritage and his American cultural identity."
And whites LOVE it because never once is the role of white colonialism on the continent ever mentioned - it's just a black hatefest whites can enjoy like the lynchings they'd bring the kids to - a perfect summer read for the Klansman in your family.
elkh1,
"When you identify yourself as black American, African American, Hispanic American, Chinese American,... you are leaving American without a label to mean White American. You surrender America to white people, then you gripe about how white people dominate America. That is stupid."
Because black life, here, should be one of eternal struggle - whites said that, too.
You guys are truly clueless.
Larry J,
"It's interesting how the accepted name has changed over time."
Sigh. Or how blacks went from slaves to separate-but-equal, to almost-full citizens, huh? Think there might be something to that? How about blacks, being mainly from the South, to going all over the country and changing the entire place? Think that might have something to do with it? That only stopped in the 1970s - think that might have something to do with it?
Like I said, you guys are clueless.
YoungHegelian,
"The blacks who seek an African identity seek a chimera."
Bullshit - some find it's the only fit possible. America should be paying to send them home. Everybody's different.
paul a'barge,
"Nice to know, isn't it? I mean, ultimately where peoples' allegiances lie, even when they lie to your face."
You sound like the plantation owners, surprised the slaves left after emancipation. Where was their loyalty?
Idiot.
Scott M,
"No, the most amusing/sad thing is to watch some white talking head, especially one from the left, switch back and forth from "black" to "African-American" to "people of color" all in one segment. After I noticed it the first time, I was a bit surprised just how often it happens."
Why? That's where we are now. You're just admitting you're not up-to-date on your own country's culture. And kinda proud of it.
That's funny,...
The black Americans I know here in Africa stopped referring to themselves as African American a week or two after arriving here.
I have a friend at work who considers himself African American. This is because he grew up for the first half of his life on the continent of Africa, then immigrated to the United States, and has since become a United States citizen.
He once told me he was instructed NOT to classify himself as African American though, because he is from Egypt.
I'm probably the last one to realize this but at this point I'm virtually certain that @The Crack Emcee is actually a white troll.
It's a fair put up of a bitter black man but old and stale. The kind of stuff a white guy who hates blacks would post pretending to be black in an attempt to generate controversy.
Move on, dude. You're so over.
I've had conversations with black Americans in which they dropped the mask and in an unguarded comment referred to Africa as the Motherland
We're all Africans. So you are an African American too.
Jeez, if Crack setting a record for pointless posts that nobody takes seriously?
As far as this goes, black Americans have infinitely more in common with white Americans than with the Africans...who, coincidentally, SOLD THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
What do you call an Afrikaner who immigrated to America? A white African American? A white American? An African American?
A black European who immigrated to America is an African European American or African American European.
The Duke of Wellington's family lived in Ireland since the 12th century. He endeared himself to the Irish by stating that just because you're born in a barn that doesn't make you a horse. DeValera was born in Brooklyn to a Cuban father. He was the dominant leader in Ireland in the 20th century. Both of my father's parents were born in Ireland. My father would have had no interest in learning Gaelic, but he would have liked Ireland to have used its Atlantic ports for anti submarine patrol, especially when he was traveling across the pond in a troop ship. DeValera, however, believed in Irish neutrality and in giving Gaelic back to the Irish tongue. So much more useful than Marhall Plan aid......I'm glad that the accent on my hyphenated identity falls more on the American than on the Irish side of the hyphenate. I'm sorry that my Irish ancestors knew nothing but seven centuries of famine and failed rebellions, but I'm grateful that I don't have to integrate all of that into my sense of self. I've created enough futility all by myself without having to incorporate the grudges of my ancestors.
"@ Brando: Negro may be accurate but it migrates to easily into the hated N word and its derivatives."
That may be true, but by that standard almost anything can migrate into the N word (e.g., "Nigerian").
I always use "black" because that was the accepted term when I was growing up, and "negro" was and is considered more outdated than offensive--sort of like how "chicano" was once the accepted term for hispanics.
"Latins" seems incorrect to me, as that term should incorporate more than just hispanics--at the very least Italians should have a claim at being "Latins". But it's true that often these terms don't really make sense, they just fall in and out of use.
Does make me wonder though what the popular terms will be a few decades from now, when the terms we consider accepted today become outdated or are considered offensive.
H,
"In the eyes of the African doorman, this African American Washington Post corespondent was "the white man.""
After centuries of white males interbreeding with the slaves, what did you expect him to see? Have you ever looked at an African's skin color vs. an American blacks?
It's embarrassing,...
garage sez:
We're all Africans. So you are an African American too.
Well, there goes Crack's reparations argument!
John,
"Eric Holder's parents are from Barbados.
In Barbados they are officially considered "white"."
That's why, when you hear Eric Holder speak on race, you're also really listening to his wife.
Same with Obama,...
I say - if Colored People is good enough for the NAACP, then it's good enough for me.
damikesc,
"As far as this goes, black Americans have infinitely more in common with white Americans than with the Africans...who, coincidentally, SOLD THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE."
To white men with guns - why do you leave that part out?
Oh - wait - I got it:
Because the truth ruins the lies whites tell - about themselves and everybody else - every time,...
elkh1,
"What do you call an Afrikaner who immigrated to America?"
A white South African-American would be my guess,…if they're cool.
Asshole, if they're not,...
Garage:
Man, your high school was on it!!
William,
"I'm sorry that my Irish ancestors knew nothing but seven centuries of famine and failed rebellions, but I'm grateful that I don't have to integrate all of that into my sense of self."
Now THAT's a mouthful - and you ought to be. Whites, here, don't seem to get that, as they ask questions, like "Why can everyone else make it and blacks can't?" without fathoming the depths of bullshit they've placed before us, exclusively - including never being able to escape their presence. I'm reminded of Keziah Brevard's words from the 1800s:
"It has been my constant desire to make my negroes happy & I am every now and then awakened to the fact that they hate me,…and it is nothing on earth but I am white and own slaves."
She represents America, still - in total denial of what she's done or how we feel about it and her,….
Brando,
"Does make me wonder though what the popular terms will be a few decades from now, when the terms we consider accepted today become outdated or are considered offensive."
In the end, if the crazy whites don't put up too much of a fight, we'll all be Americans soon - not their "real Americans," which is code for white supremacy.
Reparations will bring us closer to not needing changing terms - because our citizenship will finally be fixed - not always in transition, as it's been in black's eyes, or the culture's.
As I said, and as this thread proves, whites are pretty ignorant to the black experience, but Reparations has a "Truth & Reconciliation" portion to it that ought to clear up a lot of things for everybody.
Whites should fully support it, for the sake of the country and the hope for a better future,….
Chef Mojo,
"garage sez:
We're all Africans. So you are an African American too.
Well, there goes Crack's reparations argument!"
Nope - one of the requirements is you have to have "claimed the race for 10 years" prior to Reparations being inacted - so, if you're just figuring it out (or spent your life trying to "pass" while letting the rest of us take the abuse) you're shit out of luck.
Again - why don't you guys know this stuff?
Doug,
"I say - if Colored People is good enough for the NAACP, then it's good enough for me."
Only there, and only for historical reasons.
Anywhere else and you're asking for trouble,...
Reparations will bring us closer to not needing changing terms
LOL - and you said I didn't understand the culture. You're more damaged than I thought, Cripus, if you truly believe that.
Anywhere else and you're asking for trouble,...
Well, not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured
Crack
"Nope - one of the requirements is you have to have "claimed the race for 10 years" prior to Reparations being inacted - so, if you're just figuring it out (or spent your life trying to "pass" while letting the rest of us take the abuse) you're shit out of luck"
Well, it is good to know that the rules are in place for the reparations that will not be "inacted" (sic) by the evil white devils that are too stupid to know the rules, too ignorant to pass the Crack Emcee test of intelligence and yet have the power to pretty much do as they wish and who have had a hate on for blacks for four hundred years.
Who is making up these rules? Where can we get copies?
When asked where I am from, depending on context, I will either say "Pittsburgh," where I spent my youth, or "Beaufort," where I live now. If they make it clear that they are seeking ethnic-national heritage, I'll tell them German-Irish-English-Dutch, which is accurate. For years I would say "Welsh," which I learned was completely wrong when I started doing research about 6 years ago.
But I don't identify very strongly with German-Irish-English-Dutch. Emotionally I identify with my ancestors in America, especially from the mid-19th century to the early 20th. These people lived in what was truly another world. I have learned a lot about that world by learning where my ancestors were, what they did and what was going on around them. My main takeaway is that their lives were a lot more difficult and challenging than mine.
@Crack,
I can sort of understand your bitterness and drive to beg for reparations. It must be a terrible thing to live through the historical decline and failure of your own people while other minority groups around you are on such a strong ascendency. Finding some sort of transcendent Satan to blame one's failures on may be the only way to remain sane in the face of such cognitive dissonance, I'd suppose.
But that's what blogging's for: a little sock to keep your grievances in, so best of luck to you in these options still remaining to you.
Michael,
"It is good to know that the rules are in place for the reparations that will not be "inacted" (sic)"
It's also good to be teased, for the lack of education whites forced on us with their racist policies, just so whites can later have the laugh.
Enjoy.
I'm sure you'll use the same criteria to deprive someone of a job, too.
Whites are so smart and compassionate,...
Ululating Umlungu,
"Well, not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloured"
Why - in a discussion of American race - would you bring that up?
Are you that desperate?
Clayton Hennesey,
"@Crack,
I can sort of understand your bitterness and drive to beg for reparations."
Where, oh where, do you see a single word of begging? I said it's going to happen and whites should support it. If they don't, then - just like ending slavery and Jim Crow and all the rest - it will be done against their wishes. They'll just have to accept white supremacy doesn't run the country any longer.
I think you hear begging because you're white. Reparations aren't charity. They are funds owed to blacks - including payment of a theft - but also for past abuse. There's no begging here. We're not your slaves.
"It must be a terrible thing to live through the historical decline and failure of your own people while other minority groups around you are on such a strong ascendency."
Wow - your racism is strong. And it reveals you're nuts:
How can a people born into slavery, who defeated the best efforts of racists and has individuals who've risen to the heights of power - including assuming the presidency in record time - be in decline?
See how racism warps the mind?
As we keep minting millionaires and billionaires, in record time, you keep that racist "decline" rhetoric where everybody can see it, O.K.?
"Finding some sort of transcendent Satan to blame one's failures on may be the only way to remain sane in the face of such cognitive dissonance, I'd suppose."
First, in case you didn't hear, blacks didn't have to find whites - they came for us.
And second - as to whites acting like Satan, resulting in black cognitive dissonance, rather than hindering black progress - if you can explain how black prospects were supposed to improve with whites around, I'll pay you Reparations.
Man, you've got this whole story backwards. Are you sure you're the right guy to be speaking on insanity?
"But that's what blogging's for: a little sock to keep your grievances in, so best of luck to you in these options still remaining to you."
Except we're not talking on my "little sock." We're talking on a lawyer's.
And The Case For Reparations. wasn't made on my blog - and was the biggest seller in the history of the magazine.
And this time - when, as it is every year, HR40 is resubmitted - it will be taken up next time. So what's my point? Only this:
You think it's just me and my "little sock." Racist whites, like you, can sneer all you want but you're as clueless to what's occurring around you as ever. That makes you comical, because it's fun defeating the truly evil ones, leaving no reason for regrets when the shit gets ugly.
You stay here and talk awhile - long enough for us to watch events unfold together:
We'll figure out which one of us is the "Real American" yet:
The black Republican, defending the ideals of the party that freed the slaves, or the racist white supremacist infiltrators, convinced they can re-write our history to make a place where Klan members feel comfortable.
Come on,...
Crack:
"It's also good to be teased, for the lack of education whites forced on us with their racist policies, just so whites can later have the laugh."
Whites forced you not to learn and use English? White with that power are not paying reparations, I can assure you.
Do you think that teachers don't break their necks trying to get their students to learn and use proper English? Do you think I would hire someone who did not know the word enact and how to use it?
(sic) does not mean I am teasing the author, it means the author has used the wrong word or used a word improperly. The author. Not me.
Fire up a joint, Crack, and dream about how your share of reparations is going to be spent. Dream too about how the hated whites are going to be made to part with their money to pay said reparations. Your share of one hundred trillion is two point five million dollars. Extra big toke and think about that. Soon coming. Do you think they will be taxed? At what rate? Capital gains I would argue were I you.
To white men with guns - why do you leave that part out?
They're STILL doing it.
No white men with guns involved.
Why do you leave that part out?
Well this all ended well (as expected).
Another lesson learned from the professor and her house.....
Brando mentioned "Chicano" I thought this was still acceptable but don't hear it much.
It is not and never has been synonymous with Hispanic. Chicano refers only to those of Mexican ancestry.
It does not refer to other Spanish speaking groups.
John Henry
Something I find tiresome, especially with respect to immigration, is lumping all Hispanics together.
The bulk of our illegal immigration problem has always (going back to the 30s at least) been from Mexico. We are now seeing an big influx of non-Mexicans but this is something new.
There are 3 main Hispanic groups in the US:
Mexicans who come illegally for the most part.
Cubans who, once they get "feet dry" are legally admitted to the US as refugees.
Puerto Ricans who are born in PR as full blooded, full righted 14th Amendement citizens by birth.
When we talk about Hispanic illegals we should be clear which country they illegally come from.
John Henry
Crack,
When did "white men with guns" get to Africa?
As a side note of interest, when were guns even invented?
When did black Africans start selling and shipping other black africans into slavery?
There is a 5-600 year gap between when blacks started selling blacks into slavery in large numbers and when the first white men got to Africa.
White men also never made it very far into the interior. It was blacks, right up into at least the 1860's who were bringing large numbers of blacks to the slave markets. See Burton, for example.
This was mainly on the east coast of Africa after 1825 or so. The Brits and the Americans did a fairly good job of putting the kibosh on the West Coast slave trade. Other than the Spanish trade to Brazil.
You have recommended several times that us white folks here read up on the history of (black?) slavery. I am still waiting for your book recommendations.
I would be particularly interested in hearing what books have informed your knowledge on the subject.
This is probably the 3rd or 4th time I've asked. I am beginning to think you have read nothing and are just making it up. Please prove me wrong.
John Henry
Michael,
"Whites forced you not to learn and use English?"
They started with making reading a crime for blacks, sometimes punishable by death. Are you really that ignorant?
"White with that power are not paying reparations, I can assure you."
They may not agree but they will pay. Like gay marriage, this is a pretty one-way street.
"Do you think that teachers don't break their necks trying to get their students to learn and use proper English?"
Not whites. Sorry - history is against you.
"Do you think I would hire someone who did not know the word enact and how to use it?"
I don't know. In the context of America, it'd be stupid for several reasons, starting with the policies of this country and ending with it's not being a commonly used word. An "i" instead of an "e"? My God, make sure someone doesn't eat over THAT, why don't you?
"(sic) does not mean I am teasing the author, it means the author has used the wrong word or used a word improperly. The author. Not me."
Because you needed to point out on this thread what anyone could read - but it's not teasing. Right. See, this is why you should hire people who may misspell a word:
They may make a mistake, where it doesn't matter, but that doesn't mean they're stupid - and might even mean they're still smarter than you.
That's why you wouldn't hire us - we scare you, deep down inside, and nobody's fooled by a word you say. Now go pet your gun and feel better.
"Fire up a joint, Crack, and dream about how your share of reparations is going to be spent."
Sorry, this is SF - we do bongs.
"Dream too about how the hated whites are going to be made to part with their money to pay said reparations."
You have no idea how this country works, do you? You sincerely think someone's going to come to your house and demand your money?
You're a fool.
"Your share of one hundred trillion is two point five million dollars."
And your point is?
"Extra big toke and think about that."
Bong load, dude, bong load.
"Soon coming."
Let's see - slavery took 250 years. Jim Crow took 90. Separate but equal was 60 years. 35 years of redlining. We've been working at Reparations since before the Civil War. And you don't think this one is happening because,….blacks aren't diligent and patient enough?
Or is it just because you're you, and whites are having such a great track record of predicting all these things?
There'd never be a black president, right? I said you're a fool.
"Do you think they will be taxed?"
Nope.
But you will - when we laugh in your face,...
John Henry,
How many times do you want to go over that same terrain? You tell lies of omission. That's your problem. It may not be your fault - white culture decided to lie and you're a product of white culture - what are you going to do?
I say, stop talking like an idiot - or trying to defend the white race's racist past - and discover what you don't know because what you don't know will probably entertain you, as it does I, for the rest of your life.
I'm currently reading about plantation life - but what it was like for the women. Reading white women's diaries and learning they'd gouge a child's eyes out for dropping a dish at dinner time makes white's callous behavior, today, much more understandable. As well as the need for strong laws to stop them.
Tell me, what are your views on privacy, knowing blacks have never had any? Slavery wasn't private. Neither was Jim Crow - whites could do what they wanted. Is that Reparational? Whites are freaking out over Edward Snowden when we know the FBI's had MLK sex tapes for decades with no protest from anyone.
Go on - fight Reparations on a equal playing field:
We'll eat your hypocrisy for lunch,….
Crack,
One further thought on your "white men with guns" hypothesis
Something like 100 million black Africans were sold into slavery in the thousand years ending in 1900.
Something like 10-15mm were sold west to the new world.
The rest, let's call it 85mm, were sold east and north(to Turkey, Arabia, Persia, Egypt, Morocco and other countries)
How many white men, with or without guns, do you think were involved in this north and east trade?
For an idea of scale, Burton describes a slave market in 1860s Tanzania (IIRC). He says 100,000 black slaves were being sold annually. In other words, as many every 10 years as were brought to North America in the 250 years or so slavery existed here.
How many white men do you think were involved in this?
John Henry
Crack,
So I guess your short answer is you have never read anything on the history of how your people came to be enslaved.
You are reading diaries now? OK, fine, tell us whose. Tell us the names of the books the diaries are in.
I think you are making up the bit about reading diaries. I think you read nothing but just pull stuff out of your ass and expect people to believe it.
Same thing on reparations. You are pretty one-note on that Atlantic article. Had you read anything on reparations before that? Have you read anything else on reparations since?
John Henry
Crack
:"They started with making reading a crime for blacks, sometimes punishable by death. Are you really that ignorant?"
No, but you apparently are under the impression that you were bound by the same rules as applied to slaves. You were not. No black American today has a reason not to be able to read and write as well as anyone on the planet.
"They may not agree but they will pay. Like gay marriage, this is a pretty one-way street."
Unlike Gay Marriage the concept of reparations is never on the lips of any politician, has no grip on the liberal press, is not discussed on television. Unlike Gay Marriage there is a substantial cost to reparations to the tune of $2.5 Million per every black man, woman and child in America. A preposterous analogy.
"Do you think that teachers don't break their necks trying to get their students to learn and use proper English?" Not whites. Sorry - history is against you.
So, in the last fifty years it has been impossible for blacks to learn because of the history of slavery? I see. Sorry, you don't know much current history. You also don't know many successful black businessmen or women.
As to the error you made, I apologize for bringing it to the attention of literate readers who would have inserted their own (sic). I didn't realize you were stoned. See I don't hire stoners because they tend to fuck up the little things, the things you think don't matter. But do.
"You have no idea how this country works, do you? You sincerely think someone's going to come to your house and demand your money?
You're a fool"
I know that the country works in a way that reparations will never be discussed much less passed into law and paid. The IRS (an arm of the Government you probably have little to do with) does not need to "come to my house" to "demand" my money. They can, of course, send someone over to my house or my office if it suits them and they can, in fact, take my money. So who is the fool who doesn't know how the country works who has no idea where money comes from? The fool who thinks the people of the U.S., the people whose ancestors enslaved your ancestors and who you believe are idiots and racists, will voluntarily vote to part with significant amounts of money to pay you because your great grandfather was a slave owned by nobody the voter is or has ever been related to? Oh, and tax free?
You are not a fool, Crack, you are utterly psychotic. See "delusional disorder"
John,
"One further thought on your "white men with guns" hypothesis"
No, I told you - you're on a lying jag with no interest in the truth, so why should I bother? To make you feel better or bolster white's image? Sorry, no interest in that.
If you can't coherently explain American slavery - and you've proven you can't - then your views on Africa are even more suspect. Why?
You live here.
Let it go, man, white supremacy's over,...
John,
"Crack,
So I guess your short answer is you have never read anything on the history of how your people came to be enslaved."
Because I won't entertain you? Fine. Think what you will - you're white, that's what you do.
"You are reading diaries now? OK, fine, tell us whose. Tell us the names of the books the diaries are in."
Sigh. I owe you nothing - but a like when whites still think I do - it's just a reminder they're trapped in old times.
"I think you are making up the bit about reading diaries. I think you read nothing but just pull stuff out of your ass and expect people to believe it."
That's fine - it's Ann's blog, not yours. If she finds me credible, I'll live with that.
"Same thing on reparations. You are pretty one-note on that Atlantic article. Had you read anything on reparations before that? Have you read anything else on reparations since?"
Again - what makes you think/assume I owe you anything?
Being white is preposterous,...
Norm'ly Caucasian
On this occasion I will
ID as Asian
Black roots and Africa, the Motherland (for American blacks):
Michelle Obama and her African blood.
Read all about it. These people are not Americans first. And never will be.
So, Crack doesn't know what he's talking about and is a bit bitchy when people ask him for any info that he claims we don't know and is even bitchier when people mention the unpleasant truth about black history.
YOUR people sold you. Whites bought a tiny portion of YOUR people that YOUR people sold. And still sell.
How does that feel to mean SO little to YOUR OWN PEOPLE that they SOLD your ancestors?
That has to hurt a bit.
Perhaps you should reach out to Africa for reparations --- oh wait, don't bother. Africans have no use for you either.
Crack,
Just in case you are wondering, I find you endlessly entertaining.
I think you confirmed my statement that you have read and are reading nothing on slavery, American, African or other
That in itself is entertaining and a source of mirth to me.
Now if you had actually read some history and knew what you were talking about, we could have a conversation that would be interesting and perhaps meaningful.
That too would be entertaining but in a different sort of way.
For now, you are simply a bizarre amusement.
I am glad you find me credible.
At least by your standard of Ann letting me post here. Since she does, and has never had to delete any of my notes, I guess she finds me credible as well.
So if she does, then you have to, too.
John Henry
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