Petula Dvorak weaves an awful lot of themes together. You can tell she knows they don't really fit neatly, but she can't resist doing it anyway. Rodger was a crazy murderer, but somehow his words are an indicator of what we are.
A madman murdered, but — look! — it spawned hashtag activity on Twitter. I can't believe this dead murderer is the lens through which we ought to look at ourselves.
You know, people are reading his 137-page manifesto, taking it seriously as an object of study. We didn't do that with the Unabomber's 35,000-word manifesto...
One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism, so a discussion of the psychology of leftism can serve as an introduction to the discussion of the problems of modern society in general....Oh, hell. If that came out today, we would be taking it seriously.
When we speak of leftists in this article we have in mind mainly socialists, collectivists, “politically correct” types, feminists, gay and disability activists, animal rights activists and the like. But not everyone who is associated with one of these movements is a leftist. What we are trying to get at in discussing leftism is not so much movement or an ideology as a psychological type, or rather a collection of related types....
The two psychological tendencies that underlie modern leftism we call “feelings of inferiority” and “oversocialization.” Feelings of inferiority are characteristic of modern leftism as a whole, while oversocialization is characteristic only of a certain segment of modern leftism; but this segment is highly influential....
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137 comments:
Do not consider for a moment the very obvious latent homosexual. It would be too uncomfortable to think about or, much less, to discuss.
Misogyn is a stubborn part of that cohort's fabric.
I got curious about this one in five have been raped and discovered that I am a racist, many times over.
“When you were
- drunk,
- high,
- drugged,
- or passed out and unable to give consent,
how many people ever had vaginal sex with you?”
Now I agree that drugging somebody and having sex with them is rape rape, so to speak, as is having sex with somebody passed out, ewww. But I have had plenty of sex with women who were either somewhat drunk or high at the time. Sometimes on their initiative.
I never wanted to be a rapist, but here I stand convicted. Funny thing is that when I have occasionally, over the course of a lifetime, run into one of them, they seem happy to see me and greet me as an old friend.
Go figure. I guess they suffer from false consciousness.
The irony is that if one were to blame a "culture" (rather than a mental defect WRT Roger) then it would need to be the culture he grew up in, which is that of Hollywood and the Liberal Left PC culture.
PS: though his manifesto was about his hatred of the beautiful blondes who would not have sex with a rich Beamer owner, his victims 4 of 6 were mostly male. The first three killings were Asian males, perhaps who were getting more sex than Roger...
Substitute race for gender here. Imagine that instead of a man going on a rampage after writing a long diatribe about his failures with and hatreds towards women, this was a black man going on a rampage after posting a diatribe about how much he hates white people. Ok, a sad awful story, right?
But then, we have white people deciding that any black liberationists (or even black civil rights supporters) are somehow complicit in this crime because the perpetrator frequented their websites. And then white people posting about how they have to live in fear of blacks because some blacks commit crimes against some whites. Such a reaction would be offensive, particularly in taking a tragic single happenstance and using it to tar all black people as well as the very arguments for black empowerment.
Why should these anti-male reactions be any less offensive?
Several people were killed here, including male victims of this shooting. Try for a minute to put aside your hateful agendas. If you don't have something constructive to add, do society a favor and clam up for a change.
Gee, that is funny, I typed "racist" instead of "rapist."
Well, I guess I am a racist too, an accusation for which there is no defense other than completely accepting the politics of the accuser, otherwise, as Crack says, you are "empirically" a racist.
The Drill SGT said...
PS: though his manifesto was about his hatred of the beautiful blondes who would not have sex with a rich Beamer owner, his victims 4 of 6 were mostly male. The first three killings were Asian males, perhaps who were getting more sex than Roger...
But no one gives a shit that men died, just as no one cared when Boko Harem murdered all those boys. Males are expendable.
"One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism,.."
I am so sick of the left/right nonsense I'll scream. One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is craziness.
And mostly by those on the left and right,...
First one to option that manifesto gets an HBO series!
Holy shit, Crack posted a funny.
With insight no less.
Leftists (collectivists) paraphrased:
We need to consolidate power and make decisions for other people. Those who disagree must have the force of law used to stop their actions and their disagreements.
Rightists (individualists) paraphrased:
Leave me alone and I will leave you alone. Go about your business undisturbed.
......
Boy, that craziness sure is equally distributed.
So it turns out we have another "white Hispanic" on our hands. A "well off white boy" whose mother is not "white" in any traditional sense of the word with regards to race. Sounds more like "well off American Boy" would have been more truthful.
Why so economical with the truth?
"I can't believe this dead murderer is the lens through which we ought to look at ourselves."
Humans do this everywhere, in movies and music and religion. Raging Bull is a top-rated movie; Kanye West is a hot franchise; that Boston Marathon bomber is a cutie. Putin is a hottie. Humans go to horror movies. They listen to crap music and look at crap art. It makes them feel deep.
Silly rabbits.
The less time spent pondering the actions of a mad man, the better off we are.
He hated women, but he hated men too. He seemed to have no emotional connection with anyone. He seemed to view all culture and human exchanges like an outsider looking in. He certainly near expresses a connection to or understanding of our society. He was completely anti- social.
I think it's important to take his manifesto seriously, but not literally.
The first three killings were Asian males, perhaps who were getting more sex than Roger...
I believe they were his roommates at an assissted living facility.
As a general rule, I take a crazy person's ramblings as evidence they are crazy, not as an indictment of an entire gender.
Here's a stretched connection: today's Google doodle celebrates Rachel Carson, whose main contribution to the world is the death of millions of people in poor nations.
Her arguments were nutty and poorly researched, and her conclusions ("silent spring") were even more nutty. Yet she's a heroine!
A misanthrope that we should all celebrate for being more misanthropic than we dare to be.
It was not an assisted living facility.
They were furnished apartments that rented to students and would match roommates for people who didn't have a roommate preference if need be. That's it.
These murder victims were thrown in with a mentally disturbed young man, much like the VA tech killer's roommates. Imagine how stressful that would be.
First time I can remember that I 100% agree with Crack.
---------------------
This kid was a virgin at 22 and felt like that made him weird. As far as I know sex has been a goal for young men forever, but not getting it used to be more common than getting it (probably still is, or maybe I'm naïve). The idea that not getting it is traumatic enough to motivate murder...Maybe being inundated with sexual themes 24/7 is not such a good idea.
Whoa, that Unabomber feller makes a lot of sense.
The lesson of course, is that evil white hetero males will be blamed for a half Asian closet case stabbing 3 Asians and shooting a Hispanic and two white girls.
His writings are, I agree, not the way we should look at and evaluate ourselves.
It's just the opposite. They give us insight into how much unlike us some people are. We try to get through to them in a way we are sure would work for *us*. That's why Rodger had life coaches to help him learn to interact with people. His family thought his social anxiety could be alleviated by learning how to be social.
But that wasn't going to work, because Rodger actually hated people. He didn't want any real interaction. People who were nice to him weren't good enough for him or ended up disgusted by him, people who ignored him were hated, people who were happy in front of him were attacked.
He couldn't and wouldn't relate to people the way we think people relate. We can't learn about ourselves through him, but we can learn to recognize signs in people like him, and maybe learn how to deal with them.
Narcissistic Internet Psycho says:
Just from the words you write in comments I can tell you are a beautiful woman, and not like all the others. You must see the difference yourself, how so many women care about nothing but themselves, I believe it is a sickness in a sick society. Women act like men don't even matter, but I am a good lover if they were ever smart enough to find out. It seems most women resent me because I am super smart but I know you are different, and if we were to meet I would show you how different I am, I keep clean sheets on the bed, always.
I would show you the book I am writing, it explains all these things and I would dedicate it to you if you'd like, we just need to talk. You'll find I am a good talker, I am humble even though I am so much better than all the other loutish men out there. Women seem to love the loutish men but I know you are not like that, I can tell from the comments you write. I read the comments of women on blogs and I imagine what they must look like naked.
It's the ring around the collar of our society.
Posted this late last night on the previous post about this guy, but doing it again, JIC you missed it. Skip over if you saw it then.
Definitely disowned by the PUA community: The Psychosis Of The Effeminate Male via Instapundit: THE PICKUP ARTIST COMMUNITY IS NOT IMPRESSED WITH ELLIOT RODGER.
One point they make is that PUA techniques would only have helped him in meeting women. And, knowing what I know about the PUA community and their methodology, I tend to agree. Breaking the ice and engaging in conversation is one of the techniques that they work on. And, in reality, for most of us, that is all that it really takes - being able to talk to women, and ultimately you end up in relationships with them, where they do all the talking.
Some other things. The narcissism that the killer showed in his writings was thought to be more found in women, AND gay men. Was he gay, and had not realized it yet? Was he fighting his sexual orientation? Possible, apparently given what he said about both sexes in his manifesto (and that he killed males with a knife, and females with a gun - the former possibly showing a more emotional relationship).
Another point made, that he apparently had some level of ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder), more likely Asperger's. That could very likely have been his root problem with dealing with young women.
I like that phrase:
""The hatred that remains a stubborn part of our society’s fabric."
And white conservatives think that's some great fabric!!!
(Don't get them talking about the patterns,…)
The Unabomber sounds like a lot of commenters here.
Think of his therapist giving him the simplest advice: if Isla Vista is making you miserable, move! This would make perfect sense to rational people. It is excellent advice and would have been easy to take, as he had no real reason to be there anyway. Yet to Rodger, this was not the answer. That suggestion made no sense because it didn't solve the problem he really had: that happy people existed.
"The irony is that if one were to blame a 'culture' (rather than a mental defect WRT Roger) then it would need to be the culture he grew up in, which is that of Hollywood and the Liberal Left PC culture."
Or, in the larger aspect--carrying this supposition further--the capitalist culture, where everything and everyone becomes commodified, assigned a value, and bought and sold accordingly. In this sense, Rodger had no value and was left on the shelf.
Rage Killing in the Neoliberal World
Narcissistic Internet Psycho says:
The problem with most women is that they can only see the world through the perspective of being a woman, they are narrow and half-blind to the full reality I can see, I write about it in my book. Beautiful women in particular need to realize that it is in the better interest of society if they were to choose men like me, men who could then teach them about the sickness of the true world: this should be their responsibility and yet they still act like the problems they cause are not their fault. I know how to appreciate a beautiful woman, I would make sure she is safe from the influences of others who might want to undermine my teaching. Don't get me wrong, I would let her use the phone. I am reaching out to you, I hope you realize the specialness of this. I read the comments of women on blogs and I imagine what they must look like naked.
It's the ring around the collar of our society.
I always kinda thought it was the ring around the bathtub of our society.
Or, in the larger aspect--carrying this supposition further--the capitalist culture, where everything and everyone becomes commodified, assigned a value, and bought and sold accordingly. In this sense, Rodger had no value and was left on the shelf.
As opposed to the communist or socialist utopias, where everyone has no value at all.
Why "misogynist", Ann?
That seems to be the meme (he shot 6 blonde women, except he didn't.)but that doesn't mean you have to repeat it.
Half the people killed were men.
Doesn't that make him a miseverybodyist? I am sure there is a gender inclusive term but am too lazy to look it up just now.
Is it significant that none of the people he killed was transgender or transexual? Hmmmmmm.....
Does anyone really think that was a coincidence?
John Henry
Narcissistic Internet Psycho says:
I am beginning to believe you may be just like all the others; I hope this isn't true. Women can get so wrapped up in their own little needs that they don't see the responsibility they owe to magnificent men like me, who can teach them with love and humility. I see beautiful women in the street and I see how they humiliate themselves with the men they choose, I wonder if they even know how pathetic it makes them, how little and shallow, no smarter than a grade-schooler
On consideration, this is unfair to grade-school girls: some of them still respect the proper authority of adult men, it is the female teachers that strip them of this natural knowledge, I write about it in detail in my book. It is as if they want to proclaim to the world 'this is the lout I have sex with' and they show no shame: don't they realize how this makes me think about them? I hope you are not like them. I read the comments of women on blogs and I imagine what they must look like naked.
You know, it's kind of like reading novels. You've got what is probably a pretty abnormal human mind producing text, and we read it and think we are learning about ourselves and our society, in part because we're stimulated to find things in our own minds as we read. Our thoughts are jogged. It's projection.
The left thrives on hatred and war. Nothing excites them more than a mass murder. Time to crank up the familiar memes - war on women, racist society, gun control. The only one still missing is class warfare.
It's not projection. It's passive sadism. People who love the Rodger story are not necessarily violent psychopaths, but some of them seem to enjoy the story somehow. The worst of such people then project it onto their perceived cultural enemies, but that's a small subset of the populace.
The Crack Emcee said...
"I like that phrase:
""The hatred that remains a stubborn part of our society’s fabric."
And white conservatives think that's some great fabric!!!"
Crack, are you sure you aren't part of the problem? Can you honestly say that you don't hate white people?
Narcissistic Internet Psycho says:
I sincerely hope that your silence is not a sign of you rejecting me. It may be my fault: I am super smart and sometimes I explain complex thoughts on a level that other people have trouble comprehending. This is my superior self-awareness, I can recognize this weakness. If only women could be as self-aware and recognize their weaknesses, they would see how a man like me should be essential in their lives. I am offering to be in your life through my great kindness, I hope you are smart enough to see that. I read the comments of women on blogs and I imagine what they must look like naked.
He couldn't and wouldn't relate to people the way we think people relate. We can't learn about ourselves through him, but we can learn to recognize signs in people like him, and maybe learn how to deal with them.
-----
I think that's about it. One thing I'm getting is that perhaps the several minor assaults he admits to in his manifesto---throwing coffee on two girls at a bus stop who didn't smile at him, spraying a Super Soaker full of orange juice on some college students who were horsing around, and finally attempting to push girls off a ten-foot ledge---should have been reported and prosecuted. I'm not sure why the ledge incident wasn't, except that Rodger was the only one with a serious injury (inflicted by young men defending the girls). If the pattern of lashing out at strangers had been established, he probably could have been involuntarily committed.
Bruce, good link
Yes the PUA community is all about improving social skills in general, and the skills that attract women in particular.
It's about self improvement in terms of verbal skills, physical conditioning, mastery of body language, etc.
It focuses on understanding female psychology, which is utterly unlike feminist imaginings. By circumventing the fem-centric Blue Pill lies men are taught how to connect directly to women's deepest biological hypergamous nature, which is empirically demonstrated repeatedly and predictably. These techniques and the wisdom that underpins them are very effective.
It is all about the Red Pill and debunking the lies of the liberal PC fem-centric culture that harms men AND women.
It is a movement that is growing like wildfire and has the potential to effect a most needed cultural realignment.
Dinosaurs like Althouse can't even admit its real existence, let alone legitimacy. Pity.
I am afraid the sense of male self-entitlement and resentment towards women for any sense of rejection is more common and often turns violent. At the gym I over-heard two women talking about an ex-boyfriend of one of their co-workers who calls and threatens to kill her, harm her children and cut off the head of her current boyfriend, and she is unable to do anything about it because so far it is only a verbal threat. I was shocked, but they said this was a common problem for women and then went to to give other examples that occurred just in their small work circle. So yes part of Rodger's unbalance seems to represent a common narration against women. Another part of the problem is that he did little to accomplish skills other than WoW for hours on end which seemed to pre-figure his desire for retribution .
Speaking of questionable manifestos taken seriously, given more weight and influence than cool objective reasoning would allow, I see that Google is celebrating the birthday of Rachael Carson, a distant relative of mine.
Robert Cook: "The Unabomber sounds like a lot of commenters here."
The media (and the left in general) were quite "understanding" of much of what the unabomber wrote.
Cookies attempt at some rhetorical judo to map the unabomber psyche onto bloggers here is interesting given the above fact.
Very reminiscent of the recent rhetorical tactic of accusing conservatives of loving putin simply because the conservatives happened to notice that obama was behaving in quite the "flexible" way and playing into putins hands.
Gee, it's almost like a pattern or something.
Someone alert Crack.
Crack is all about patterns.
Crack is all about "mass guilt by DNA" as well.
But only for some DNA sequences.
Not others.
Crack is very "discerning" in this way.
Cook: "Or, in the larger aspect--carrying this supposition further--the capitalist culture, where everything and everyone becomes commodified, assigned a value, and bought and sold accordingly."
LOL
Yes.
It's 2014 and some idiot actually wrote that.
Gee, if only we could find a society where people were not capitalistic commodities and treated thusly, thereby finding enlightenment and fulfillment.
Would Mao's 60 million dead "Great Leap Forward" count?
By the way, the left in the West loooooooooved Mao and what he was doing.
And they still do.
Cookie is a caricature of a low information unreconstructed marxist.
@ Paul Men with men, in a self-help group, working on your skills and your self-esteem.
Somehow you boost each other with the idea that this is manly, but it's self-esteem and self-help, and you're only hoping to hide how dopey, conventional, and dull you really are. Running women down, ostensibly for the purpose of making yourselves feel masterful. It is ludicrous, you know.
And some men manage to bilk other men selling their sex tips. If you are buying that, you are the mark.
If you are buying that, you are the mark.
Isn't that only the case if the techniques involved don't work?
Some men convince old women to let them live in house's they didn't pay for and support lifestyles they didn't earn.
Were you saying something about "marks?"
Or, in the larger aspect--carrying this supposition further--the capitalist culture, where everything and everyone becomes commodified, assigned a value, and bought and sold accordingly. In this sense, Rodger had no value and was left on the shelf.
There's another example. Here we are trying to get to grips with the popular tendency to extract wisdom from madness, and Cook goes right at it in perfect wisdom from madness form, reading the Rodger Manifesto through a Marxist funhouse mirror, through a glass darkly.
Some reports indicate that ER was diagnosed with Asperger's syndrome, and that he resented and often skipped taking the prescribed medications. Is this a possible case of misdiagnosis?
Asperger's syndrome people are socially isolated, but they usually don't address that isolation through violence. In fact their "socialization quotient" is so low that the AS sufferer (if that's the word) doesn't even realize he's cut off; he doesn't miss what he doesn't long for, as it were.
Contrast that with Elliot Rodger, who apparently went on a murder rampage because he wasn't getting laid. He didn't rape anyone, so the physical gratification wasn't what he was after.
It looks like ER's Asperger's syndrome was really early onset Schizoid personality disorder, the rare zebra in the herd.
BTW. Apologies to Bob Ellison, I posted my comment about Rachael Carson before I read all the comments.
Considering that one of this person's grievances was that his mommy and daddy didn't assign him his desired bedroom when he was five or so, I'm thinking he really did hate everybody.
Passive-aggressive, entitled, and with a mad-on against the world. Lovely.
The term Pickup Artist Community is telling.
You're a community? Why aren't you bold individuals out there scoring with women instead of communing with other men.
And not only is it a community, it's an artist community! Of all the candy-assery in the world -- an artist community!!
That's what you call yourself.
It sounds childish to me, and I know you like game/s, so here's a nice game for you to play in your art colony.
"Of all the candy-assery in the world"
Is this term approved by your leftist academics?
HOMOPHOBE!
Ugly.
Yes the PUA community is all about improving social skills in general, and the skills that attract women in particular.
----
Er. Lying to, manipulating and insulting strangers in order to get attention is not a social skill. In fact, those things are generally considered anti-social behaviors.
Also, I like Narcissistic Internet Psycho, but I feel like if he used the word "hypergamy" more often, he'd be more on point.
;)
AA - "Are you a real artist?"
Paul -"Not really"
AA: "Oh, I guess that's still cool"
AA: "That's really cute, your brow wrinkles every time I mock your all-male 'community'"
Paul: "No it doesn't"
AA: "Ha ha, there it goes again, sorry, its just really cute"
AA: "I just kept tossing neg after neg at that PUA, Paul, standing by the comment bar, and he loved it, he was giving me crazy kino"
AA: "Somehow you boost each other with the idea that this is manly, but it's self-esteem and self-help, and you're only hoping to hide how dopey, conventional, and dull you really are. Running women down, ostensibly for the purpose of making yourselves feel masterful. It is ludicrous, you know."
Couldn't one simply reverse the genders in the above comment as well as have it speak to Wymyns Studies vs PUA community and be just as on point?
If not more so?
Everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room. I don't claim that Beamer owners are psycho killers, but it does seem that a high proportion of them are douchebags. It was just a matter of time before one of them snapped and did something like this......This young man was a Beamer owner with a father who had an important job in the industry. And yet even in California he could not find a woman shallow enough to offer him sex. His world didn't make sense. No wonder he went crazy.
Misogyny? His first three victims were male. Gun Violence? His first three victims were stabbed to death.
But wait, there's more--his first three victims were Chinese. So he's a racist.
It's a puzzle trying to get this to fit any convenient lefty narrative, but that doesn't stop the progressive commentariat from trying.
If you can't get laid, why join a group of other losers who can't get laid either? I'm thinking President Moms Jeans would be such a member.
And not only is it a community, it's an artist community!
Part of the blame for that sophistry rests on general cheapening of art and artist as concepts that has been a feature of our culture since at least the late 1940s. Can't act? Don't worry, you're a performance artist. Can't paint? Relax, you're Jackson Pollock. Can't sculpt? Welcome, Mr. Cristo. Can't write? Congratulations, Mr. Joyce. Rhyme and meter a bit too demanding? Sit down in this tenured chair, Mr. Ginsberg.
Everybody wants to be lauded as an artist. Nobody wants to be known as a competent plumber.
Ann - what I think is going on with the PUA culture/community is that they somewhat work together to develop themselves and their techniques. And, it does appear to work - if your goal as a guy is getting laid.
For awhile, the attorney next door to me at work was into this sort of thing, and I watched him develop. He had mentors, and worked pretty hard at developing his techniques. And, they seemed to work. He would be out 3 or 4 nights a week, and it seems that he built up to getting laid by new women a couple of those times. Some of it could have been brag, of course, but I did notice the number of women calling him up increased significantly over that time.
I think that feminists don't like the PUA guys for a number of reasons. One is, as noted above, that what they teach is how (most?) women really are, and not how they portray themselves to themselves or the rest of society. For one thing, they learn to exploit the sorts of insecurities that a lot of women have, even many of the most beautiful ones, to get what they want.
Another way of looking at PUAs is that they are fake alpha males. They have watched how alpha males pick up women, and then worked on replicating it. Alpha males punch certain buttons in females, and most females respond. Actual alphas probably don't think a lot about it, they just do it. But, the fake alphas, the PUAs, have to work to make it work. And, I think that this is part of why it works, because the females of our species are wired to respond to certain cues, in order to procure the best genetic material for their offspring.
Notably, the PUA doesn't relate to women as a girly boy (or, more modernly, a pajama boy). They aren't the women's best friend. Rather, they are the ones in control, not the women. And, indeed, I think that a bit of misogyny is necessary to maintain this distance and control. (And, that is why I could never get into the movement - I like women too much).
Are they losers? Depends on your definition, but I would suggest that a bunch of beta males getting laid by women out of their class on a routine basis is not indicative of being losers.
I traded in an old car one time. I asked the sales manager what they intended to do with the car. He said not to worry: "There's an ass for every seat." In a monogamous society the same could be said for men and women, there is a man for every woman and a woman for every man, your match just might not be the type promoted by Hollywood.
Unfortunately Elliot Rodger was too broken and too dangerous to find his soul mate. Ultimately, he alone is responsible for his choices and bears full responsibility. However his parents divorce, neglect, and the promiscuous racy culture in which he lived made those bad choices easier.
I'm curious to know whether this "PUA community" awards level 1 certifications like CrossFit.
Maybe there's a belt system like in the martial arts.
In any event, it was many years ago, waiting my turn in a barbershop, that an advertisement in the back of a comic book prompted me to take a correspondence course so I could hypnotize women and make them do my bidding.
I've had game ever since the age of 10.
Women seem to love the loutish men but I know you are not like that, I can tell from the comments you write. I read the comments of women on blogs and I imagine what they must look like naked.
Scary brilliant!!
- Krumhorn
"The unfiltered misogyny of Elliot Rodger is extreme, but it’s an indicator of the hatred that remains a stubborn part of our society’s fabric."
This is like finding the face of Jesus on a tortilla.
The author is associating disparate ideas. It's irresponsible. Some of the associations will be repeated as fact. A new narrative will be construed with black helicopters, and secret routers. The socially awkward virgin will be forgotten.
"I'm thinking President Moms Jeans would be such a member."
I know. It's like Mensa — a society of geniuses who need special help to determine whether or not other people are worthy of their social investment?
And the IQ cutoff is only 131. !!!
Guys, I hate to tell you but you are scraping the bottom of the genius barrel.
I just read, for the first time, the Unabomber's manifesto. It is amazingly cogent and rational.
The writing is great. He makes no spelling errors, even spelling "supersede" correctly, something few Amerikans can do. He regularly uses the grammatically correct, but politically incorrect, form "the child, he... his ... him." instead of the erroneous singular "they/their/them."
Too bad the WSJ didn't hire him as editor. It might have derailed his killing spree and improved all our lives by educating us and showing us good writing at the same time.
Perhaps they should start a club for fat divorced woodworkers who couldn't make it to college. They could call it the Omega Mahal's.
Or perhaps one for the community of similarly uneducated men who pick up old women on blogs so they can leech off their wealth. Larry's Leech Society has a nice ring to it.
Or maybe just one for people who use their mealticket's blog to censor opposing viewpoints.
"In any event, it was many years ago, waiting my turn in a barbershop, that an advertisement in the back of a comic book prompted me to take a correspondence course so I could hypnotize women and make them do my bidding."
Similar age and experience — different choices:
Instead of the hypnotism correspondence course, I chose the X-RAY SPECS, saving myself all kinds of time and money!
"Or perhaps one for the community of similarly uneducated men who pick up old women on blogs so they can leech off their wealth. Larry's Leech Society has a nice ring to it."
Ooh... I feel so negged. President-Moms-Jean, call me, big boy, I think I'm falling in love with you.
Sen. Schumer, according to a WABC liberal newsguy at 6am, is calling for $100 million to fund the scrooge of heroin in the country. (real audio)
Surely this plays a part.
Rodger was not a misogynist. However, he did perceive women as a commodity (i.e. product with negotiable value).
I wonder if he was pro-choice.
He had high self-esteem, but low self-confidence. He was a spoiled child.
Another way of looking at PUAs is that they are fake alpha males. They have watched how alpha males pick up women, and then worked on replicating it. Alpha males punch certain buttons in females, and most females respond. Actual alphas probably don't think a lot about it, they just do it. But, the fake alphas, the PUAs, have to work to make it work.
Yeah, I don't think these PUA people are exactly who they think they are.
I saw the comments section of that 1 link and they were referring to themselves as real men in comparison to these beta males...
John wrote:
Doesn't that make him a miseverybodyist?
Misanthrope?
I understand this psychopath was part Malaysian. If he knew anything about that missing airliner, he took it to the grave.
I enjoy watching a little "Bachelor/Bachelorette" with my wife. What might be fun is a reality TV show that incorporates pick up artists. The PUA's could get to show off their Jedi Mind-Tricks.
Or perhaps one for the community of similarly uneducated men who pick up old women on blogs so they can leech off their wealth. Larry's Leech Society has a nice ring to it.
Or maybe just one for people who use their mealticket's blog to censor opposing viewpoints.
I've read and enjoyed this blog for years, but this is exactly the sort of comment that is particularly ungracious and inappropriate. One would think that good manners alone would restrain a participant from making boorish comments about our hostess and her family.
Apparently, good manners are in short supply among a small flatulent few. I say, open a window.
- Krumhorn
"@ Paul Men with men, in a self-help group, working on your skills and your self-esteem.
Somehow you boost each other with the idea that this is manly, but it's self-esteem and self-help, and you're only hoping to hide how dopey, conventional, and dull you really are. Running women down, ostensibly for the purpose of making yourselves feel masterful. It is ludicrous, you know.
And some men manage to bilk other men selling their sex tips. If you are buying that, you are the mark."
Spin hamster spin!! Haha. You're such a clueless predictable creature.
Like was mentioned above you're not a mark if it works. And of course it works because women are what they are, which is exactly not what feminist women say and think they are.
I am happily married to a woman who is better looking than you ever were and before I met her was always successful with pretty girls because a I never pandered to them, I always went my own way. Women love men who are their own masters and despise supplicating betas, though when they are old and of no value in the SMP they will settle for one like Meade. I doubt a scurrying little man like that would ever have had a chance with you in your prime, such as it was.
Matthew Sablan said...
As a general rule, I take a crazy person's ramblings as evidence they are crazy, not as an indictment of an entire gender.
Shame on you for not being a feminist.
Writers do project their innermost thoughts and want to show them off to the world. Writers are exhibitionists. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Like Rodger, my latest creation was ready to publish, but the publishers told me the title was taken: Mein Kampf.
William said...
Everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room. I don't claim that Beamer owners are psycho killers, but it does seem that a high proportion of them are douchebags. It was just a matter of time before one of them snapped and did something like this...
BMW - The Ultimate Killing Machine.
All this psycho-analyzing over what? A deranged nut.
He was a nut and unfortunately wasn't properly treated for his nuttiness.
Life's way too short to waste it reading through 137 pages of the rantings of a madman. The asshole is dead. Good riddance. Too bad he murdered six other people before he took himself out.
"And white conservatives think that's some great fabric!!!"
"The unfiltered [condemnation of white people] of [Crack Emcee] is extreme, but it’s an indicator of the hatred that remains a stubborn part of our society’s fabric."
"Sen. Schumer, according to a WABC liberal newsguy at 6am, is calling for $100 million to fund the scrooge of heroin in the country."
The scrooge of heroin? No! You can't have any of my heroin. Now, get back to work.
"I am happily married to a woman who is better looking than you ever were and before I met her was always successful with pretty girls because a I never pandered to them, I always went my own way."
Writes a person with a blocked profile and no photographs connected to what is a nothing pseudonym. You're casting a "paul" over this conversation, and I am a-paul-ed.
Actually that statement of yours is reminiscent of Elliot Rodger's statement that he is the true gentleman, etc. etc.
Dopey grandiosity.
Rodger was an everyday "blondesogynyst."
Blondesogyny is a normal reaction to a world filled with of brown eyed brunettes.
The sufferer would give anything to own/sleep with a real live blonde. Redheads and Gingers are not the real thing.
Malaysians understand this disease... Wisconsinites not so much.
Drago said...
Couldn't one simply reverse the genders in the above comment as well as have it speak to Wymyns Studies vs PUA community and be just as on point?
AA doesn't like the term "community" applied to groups of people who aren't PC; it's OK otherwise, as in LGBT Commnity", Feminist Community, etc.
Despite being completely uninterested in "picking up chicks" (I'm old, had plenty, still have a good one) I like Heartiste because he's a funny and insightful writer on other issues.
I think the word "community" is ludicrous when used to refer to people who are not behaving in community. I've been saying this for years. Use the search this blog tool to see what I've said.
I think males all purporting to be "alpha" cannot possibly be a community (unless they are not alpha or interested in actually being alpha). It's internally inconsistent.
"Definitely disowned by the PUA community: The Psychosis Of The Effeminate Male via Instapundit: THE PICKUP ARTIST COMMUNITY IS NOT IMPRESSED WITH ELLIOT RODGER."
Yeah, I saw that, read it, and thought: These guys feel threatened by the murderer's proximity to ideologies they are to some extent identified with and need to defend.
I think males all purporting to be "alpha" cannot possibly be a community
Many moots and meetings of tribal chieftains would like to lodge a formal complaint against that statement.
I thought the most interesting thing about it was the speculation that Rodger was, in fact, gay and in some exaggerated denial of it.
When I look at that video of Rodger in his car, I think I'm looking at a really bad actor. I don't believe he's expressing his real feelings. And the video and the manifesto are so lame and repetitious. I just don't believe it. He did begin by killing 3 males who were close to him. What was that about?
Ann Althouse: "I think males all purporting to be "alpha" cannot possibly be a community (unless they are not alpha or interested in actually being alpha). It's internally inconsistent."
I wonder if any SEAL Team members would agree?
The little nutcase was obviously gayer than a purse full of rainbows.
Perhaps Titus can chime in and settle the argument?
Ann: "Use the search this blog tool to see what I've said."
Could you be a tad more specific to facilitate the search?
Misogyny is a weird mistress. First it causes the pay gap and now the murder victim gap. What do women have to do to get equal treatment from these terrible woman haters?
When I look at that video of Rodger in his car, I think I'm looking at a really bad actor. I don't believe he's expressing his real feelings.
Yeah, some of it seems like a bad screenplay.
The way he describes women, as always blonde and luscious. Like he didn't really think of women as pretty, but had to use words he'd read before to describe them.
I didn't know if he was lying, or if he was just used to using words that mimicked an emotional, feeling person because he had so little emotional connection to people.
The Open Carry Community and the PUA Community should join forces and call themselves the Small Cock Community.
Running women down, ostensibly for the purpose of making yourselves feel masterful. It is ludicrous, you know.
Only in the sense that women have been easily oppressed since we all learned to walk upright.
Mastering women? Not an impressive accomplishment.
Yeah, I saw that, read it, and thought: These guys feel threatened by the murderer's proximity to ideologies they are to some extent identified with and need to defend.
How so? All guys want sex with girls. That's been pretty much true since time immemorial. if they aren't advocating shooting peple who reject you how are the two compatible.
I remember being in my twenties and routinely trying to pick-up women on Friday and Saturday nights. But it was all viewed as harmless recreation,by both the men and womwn. It was about seeing who could deliver a particularly clever line, be most charming and humorous, or be the most interesting and entertaining. There was never anything sinister about it, it was all just fun.
Once, after a friend and I finally persuaded a couple of girls to leave the nightclub with us, we went to an all-night diner. One of the girls then quaintly asked if we were in a cash position to buy them a Coke. My friend and I huddled for a few moments, then I asked, "what size Coke"? Good grief, when did it all become so encumbered by sexual politics?
Yes, the video was an acting job. The Toxic Narcissist is always at work figuring out how to present a behavior that wins him supply from a new audience. They are great actors, and can be charming and intelligent in a narrow field.
But once a selected audience is on to his games, then he permanently eliminates them from his life and fselects a new audience.
The poor room mates had committed the death penalty offense that was knowing the real Rodger and not obeying the rules of his game.
The blonde co-eds were the smart ones. They did the only thing that works on Rodger's type, they refused to open their door to his act.
I thought the most interesting thing about it was the speculation that Rodger was, in fact, gay and in some exaggerated denial of it.
His father did have a "focus" on the human ass, albeit female.
SaatchiArt - Peter Rodger
Maybe Elliot was approaching women from "behind" and for that reason they did not notice him.
For being a mass murderer, he kind of bungled that, but he certainly laid the groundwork for being remembered. Look at how much attention we are giving him - Adam Lanza covered his tracks pretty well as to his motives and psychology - not much to discuss about him.
The only good takeaway from this is perhaps those videos and writings will help in "profiling" potential mass murderers.
"I wonder if any SEAL Team members would agree?"
I don't think men sharing dating tips are in a community of alphas. A team of military men are in a community on a military mission. So how does your question relate to my point? My point is that the wouldbe alpha males in the "PUA community" are either not alpha or not in a community.
I didn't say that masculine men cannot aggregate communally. I just don't see these PUA guys doing that. Why would an effective pickup artist help his competitors? I think it's more of a kaffeklasch of guys brainstorming about ladies. It's just not alpha in my book. They may be good at calling out some men who are outside their group for being unsuccessful, like a "mean girls" club. To compare these guys to SEALs… I'm not seeing that at all.
"Could you be a tad more specific to facilitate the search?"
There's a box in the upper left side bar where you can search for words used on this blog. Do a search for "community" and you'll be able to read what I've said using this word.
Here's my oldest commentary, making fun of the term "the sniper community."
"For years, I've been following the overuse of the word "community." Not everyone who can be put in one category (e.g., gay) is actually in a communal relationship with others in the category who may, in fact, commune in a group. (You could feel sad and left out if you were something that gets called a community but didn't have any rewarding group experiences.) And not every category that people can be put in is the sort of thing that suggests the relationships of community. I remember hearing the expression "the military community" about ten years ago and thinking, now, the use has reached its most ridiculous extreme. Today, on Morning Edition, I heard the most ridiculous one ever, in a story about American soldiers trained as snipers. One of the soldiers referred to "the sniper community." Next up: the loner community."
I didn't say that masculine men cannot aggregate communally. I just don't see these PUA guys doing that. Why would an effective pickup artist help his competitors? I think it's more of a kaffeklasch of guys brainstorming about ladies. It's just not alpha in my book. They may be good at calling out some men who are outside their group for being unsuccessful, like a "mean girls" club. To compare these guys to SEALs… I'm not seeing that at all.
I took it that way too, that alphas could not be a part of a community because alpha tends to be understood as leader with subordinates around him. That was the internal inconsistency I thought you were referring to.
Seeing a PUA as not wanting to work with "competitors" may be a misunderstanding on your part and the only reason I say that is this...they aren't competing. As a young 20-something, I certainly wasn't a PUA, but I was certainly out there. Never did we meet as many women as when a group of us went out, together as a group, instead of standing around looking like sharks. For some reason, (gasp) pretty much ignoring the hunt worked far better than the hunt ever did.
I don't know about PUA, but if they're approaching it systematically, they probably hit on this aspect of the dance.
I found examples of my criticizing the expression "the gay community" ("But I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't want to be organized and don't feel like they're in a community just because they have a particular sexual preference") and "the tattoo community" ("Everything's a "community" these days. There's no escape. The tattoo community. The rugged individualist community. The loner community.")
So the idea that I'm not critical of leftish use of "the [blank] community" is just wrong.
Ann Althouse @ 1:19pm
"What was that about?"
You'll never know and no about of puzzling will help.
The hubris of those who think that we can know what it was about cannot be understood either.
But I think you know that.
Having known a handful of snipers and spotters, I'm not sure Ann Althouse's view of whether they consider themselves a community carries any weight.
Maybee wrote:
When I look at that video of Rodger in his car, I think I'm looking at a really bad actor. I don't believe he's expressing his real feelings.
I'm not sure if he has real feelings other than rage. As a sociopath he's playing at feelings which is why his laugh sounds so super villainish when he laughs to himself. He's playing the part of the villain, as if he's in a movie.
"Petula Dvorak weaves an awful lot of themes together."
Key word: awful.
Let's call it a neighborhood instead of a community. The gay neighborhood. The intelligence neighborhood.
Ann: "There's a box in the upper left side bar where you can search for words used on this blog. Do a search for "community" and you'll be able to read what I've said using this word."
Yawn.
Yes Ann, I was really asking about where the search bar was and did not even attempt a search for "Community".
Sheesh.
There is far too much to have to wade thru to find the "gems" that you have to offer regarding community.
If there was one posting that you thought was best you could simply reference that.
@Drago My response was really directed at the other commenter who made an assertion about me without bothering to get the info that is available: "AA doesn't like the term "community" applied to groups of people who aren't PC; it's OK otherwise, as in LGBT Commnity", Feminist Community, etc."
But spare us your boring representation of being bored.
Um, the whole point of PUA, and Pickup Artist is a take on Con Artist, not the kinds of 'artists' you see around Vermont, for example, selling garbage they assembled. The whole point is to fake being an "alpha," or at least a "beta". Alpha guys don't need lessons and betas do fine, it is the gammas that struggle.
Fart noises. Kid was a spoiled yuppie brat who didn't get what he wanted instantly. Spin it any way you want. A perfect example of modern post boomer America. Enjoy it.
In my dating years, I remember running into a few guys who tried those PUA tactics like negging. They didn't come off as alphas. They came off as weirdos.
Their tactics filter out women who won't respond to them and take advantage of the emotionally fragile ones who are left, manipulating them into feeling insecure and dependent. That's not very alpha behavior.
Rodger was obviously a misogynist, and I'm surprised by the repeated denials here. His manifesto states his views of women very clearly: he believes they are inferior to men, irrational, incapable of proper choice (he believes they should not have the option of choosing with whom to "breed"), and deserve to be enslaved by men. He lovingly details his picture of a utopia, in which most women are executed, and the rest kept for artificial insemination to keep the human race going. The men, he said, would be spared, and freed of women's evil.
His hatred of other men was rooted in jealousy. He despised anyone who was more successful than he was, in love, in money, or in life.
BUT I think it would be wrong to say these beliefs came out of our culture--either "rape culture" or "capitalist culture". These delusions sprang from his narcissism--he believed himself so perfect, so god-like, that he could not reconcile the fact that women did not flock to him and that other men, inherently inferior to him, could succeed in finding mates.
So, as narcissists do, instead of realizing his own flaws and working to improve himself, he blamed everyone around him. All people in his world were cast as enemies--men (simultaneously as hapless victims to women and his oppressors), women (as his tormentors), his parents, his siblings, his peers, couples on the street, even society. He even, at times, stated that the universe was against him. I can definitely see where people get the schizoid vibes from him. He was intensely paranoid and self-obsessed.
"The culture" is a wide and broad place, but it was not a place where he dwelled. He stayed in his room, played video games, and seethed as he watched the world outside. Trying to derive meaning from his worldview is nonsense.
Jr565- that seems about right.
Ann: "@Drago My response was really directed at the other commenter who made an assertion about me without bothering to get the info that is available:"
I guess I was fooled by the fact that you cut and pasted my specific question.
I mean, just because you cut and pasted my specific question followed by a response, I suppose I should simply have realized you were directing your response to someone else.
(.....he man-splained.....)
jr565 wrote: I'm not sure if he has real feelings other than rage. As a sociopath he's playing at feelings which is why his laugh sounds so super villainish when he laughs to himself.
I doubt Elliot Rodger was a sociopath. His history, i.e. what I've read, strongly suggests against sociopathy. Sociopaths tend to be either self-isolated (the lone drifter model) or highly successful in social situations, even charming. (I've always considered Bill Clinton to be a sociopath of the latter type).
Rodger was delusional and obsessive about his delusions. He fits the SPD model much better.
American feminists have so much to be proud of! Very creative women (and well-intentioned men) pushed through legal innovations such as no fault divorce and prohibitions against marital rape. Feminists in the 1960s and 1970s railed against legal and economic inequalities. And they got results. But is it me or does it seem that modern feminists' concerns are small and insignificant? The odd conversations that we're having over Elliot Rodger usually involve brow-beating teenage boys (mostly white boys) over mostly sexual and mostly obnoxious indiscretions. These women come off as racist shrews. I'm sorry to say this, but these young women sound like losers.
Jarby,
"The men, he said, would be spared, and freed of women's evil."
If only he had told us that BEFORE he went on a rampage,...
The Onion Strikes Again.
All the cops in the donut shop also said there was no way to prevent this.
"Apparently, good manners are in short supply among a small flatulent few. I say, open a window"
Well said.
As far as the red pill stuff, these thought systems spring up every now and then ... 15 years ago it was "The Rules" women. Whatever. Let them all do what they need to do. It's a diversion, a back alley of thought, but sometimes one has to explore a few of those in life.
The only thing that annoys me a bit is the use of the phrase "the red pill" ... because the first Matrix and the wachowskis were so much cooler than that.
Bob's Fourth Law, which was first pronounced almost twenty years ago, is as follows: "If you think a man is gay, he's gay."
Someone just shouted "fire" in a crowded theater when there was no fire and folks were trampled on the way out!
I demand that harrogates 1st amendment rights be removed.
If it saves just one life, it will have been worth it.
After all, principles are principles.
I don't know about PUA, but if they're approaching it systematically, they probably hit on this aspect of the dance.
I don't think that PUAs work in big groups, but, yes, they often apparently work with a wingman.
And, no, I don't think that they are gammas, but rather, tend to be betas. Able to score on somewhat rare occasion before they started to play the "game". Some may come across as weirdos, and be actual gammas, but the ones I have known have not. And, it does appear to work.
From their point of view, it isn't a zero sum game. There are many more eligible women than guys with game. That guy who had the office next door to me was on the phone constantly. The majority were women calling him, but he did spend time every day it seemed talking to his mentors.
Actually, Professor, regarding your dismissal of "the sniper community."
I'm a retired infantry officer, combat veteran, and former scout platoon leader in a light infantry battalion. Actually, twice over. And had two tours as an infantry headquarters company commander and the scout/sniper platoon again fell under my command.
Snipers in both the Army and the Marine Corps are NCOs, not officers, so it wasn't my function to become a sniper myself, but I was responsible for their training, equipment and tactical employment and support.
I was also engaged at one point to a member of the US Army Marksmanship Unit (and later Olympic shooting team) which fields competitive shooters for the Army and trains units throughout the military. So I've spent a fair amount of time with snipers and national and world-class shooters.
You haven't a frigging clue what you're talking about. The sniper community is, indeed a community, in any sense of the term, and even more so since the advent of social media. But even before then, we'd meet at competitions, on ranges, at gun stores and gun shows, at Quantico and Fort Benning as we went to whatever schools were next in the career progression.
You shouldn't be so snotty about it. It's beyond your ken.
I don't think Althouse gets it at all.
My understanding is that the PUA community isn't 'alphas' so much as a bunch of betas through omegas looking for ways to raise their own value in the dating market.
And yes, some people can use the help. Holy crap, didn't anybody see "Scent of a Woman?"
Or Christopher Walken as "The Continental," fer chrissakes?!?!?
"I don't think Althouse gets it at all. My understanding is that the PUA community isn't 'alphas' so much as a bunch of betas through omegas looking for ways to raise their own value in the dating market."
Well, I don't think you're actually reading my comments. Do I ever say I think these consumers of PUA material are actual alpha males? I characterize them as marks of sellers of sex tips, ludicrous dupes.
What comments of mine do you even think you are talking about?
Here's one: "I characterize them as marks of sellers of sex tips, ludicrous dupes."
Although I think "Ludicrous Dupes" might be a good band name.
Also, at 1:12, you write: "I think males all purporting to be "alpha" cannot possibly be a community."
That's where I think you got it wrong. These are not males purporting to be 'alpha.' These are males who are betas or below looking to move up the ladder in terms of their attractiveness to females or find more desirable mates than they may otherwise pair with given their amiability/passivity/lack of awareness of bodylanguage/bmi/male-patttern baldness/shortness/halitosis/gingivitis/concave chests/low-status jobs or what have you.
They KNOW they aren't 'alpha,' and want to find techniques to up their game.
Heartiste became prominent at it not as a 'purveyor of sex tips' but because he's highly entertaining and extremely insightful.
You remind me of liberals who talk to other liberals about Rush Limbaugh without ever listening to his show. They THINK Limbaugh became successful as an angry purveyor of hate, when that's very far from the reality - even if you don't agree with him.
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