March 6, 2014

"Salon became a hardcore racist mag so gradually I barely noticed."

Observes Instapundit, linking to a Salon article titled "Why I can’t stand white belly dancers."

The article is written by a novelist named Randa Jarrar. And there's this twee notice at the end of it: "This piece is the latest in a series by feminists of color, curated by Roxane Gay."

Here's my post from last month where we were talking about this use of the word "curated" (a propos of Ryan Seacrest "curating" a fashion line.) LordSomber (a commenter) said: "'Curate' is one of those overused words that hipster artist wannabes have ruined."

Maybe Salon thinks that it's more feminist and of color to eschew the word "edited," which suggests a superseding authority and intervention. Maybe it's a crafty way to deny responsibility for the thing published: It's not edited, it's merely collected and presented "as is."

But what about that racism? How bothersome is it for a person of authenticity to express exasperation for the appropriation of some attribute of her culture for re-presentation by an outsider to that culture?

Perhaps if these white lady belly dancers asserted that what they are doing is curating dance we could all love one another (or at least wink knowingly).

177 comments:

gerry said...

Do I want to curate or docent a belly dancer?

Hmmm.

Anonymous said...

I always thought blond hula dancers were a bit odd looking.

furious_a said...

Back when the Turks and Moors were enslaving Slavs and Hispanians they would have had to press gang white slave girls into their harems and chorus lines.

So, "White Belly Dancer" = Authentic!

Anthony said...

My problem with most belly dancers isn't that they're white but that they're fat.

mccullough said...

The author is appropriating the jeremiad, the preferred form of the Western White Woman, to complain that the Western White Woman shouldn't appropriate the Arab Woman Dance. Irony aside, who taught this Arab Woman to read and write? I thought they weren't allowed to do this. Next thing you know she'll be allowed to drive a car. And when did the Western White World allow these Arabs to appropriate our most cherished form of transportation?

Anonymous said...

furious, I was about to make the exact same point.

Bob Ellison said...

"Belly" has an interesting etymology. I grew up saying mostly "stomach" for that portion of the body, where "belly" or "abdomen" would be more appropriate. People say "gut", too.

"Belly" sounds like "bella" and makes a pretty description of what can be a pretty sight.

Ann Althouse said...

I felt uncomfortable when, on "American Idol" last night, they had the Cuban-American female contestant bring the Latin dance attitude and then they criticized her for failing to lay it on heavily enough.

Overdone authenticity is no authenticity at all.

At least when you're completely disconnected from the tradition, everyone can see that it's appropriated.

Appropriation is something that modern art often exalts, but you have to do it in a sophisticated way.

And appropriating something that has spiritual meaning can be a big problem, unless you want to tear down the culture from which you appropriate (and in which case members of that culture are entitled to be insulted).

Anonymous said...

Although, if pressed, author Randa Jarrar might admit that she wouldn't mind white slave belly dancers.

Scott M said...

It's linkbait. Salon knows their overwhelmingly lily-white readership will have a healthy tweak over this and had the article written accordingly. I've now seen it linked to on two high-traffic websites and I went there myself, so apparently they know how to drive up their page views.

As to someone with so vacuous an opinion...honestly holding that opinion...I can only suggest that he/she immediately stop using the internet as it's appropriating something a bunch of white guys came up with.

RecChief said...

when I hear curate, I think art museum, or any museum for that matter. I'll give the charitable interpretation that she is selecting these pieces for historical purposes.

Scott M said...

White people exporting culture = cultural imperialism.

White people importing culture = cultural appropriation.

White people engaging in their own culture = white supremacy.

Truly...we're screwed.

Howard said...

Arabs are Caucasians with a desert tan. What she is protesting against is Celtic and Viking women doing belly dancing.

I will agree with the sentiment in regards white and asian women twerking.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Look for my forthcoming article "why I can't stand black basketball players"

Virgil Hilts said...

"Plessy, being a passenger between two stations . . was assigned by officers of the company to the [type of dancing] used for the race to which he belonged, but he insisted upon going into a [type of dance] used by the race to which he did not belong. . ."

furious_a said...

"Appropriation" vs. "Micro-aggression" -- compare and contrast.

The juxtaposition of "Feminism" and "Middle East" in the tags is both self-negating AND comical.

paul a'barge said...

LOL x 10.

You just can't make this stuff up.

Here is the author of this article:

Click to view the author


Ann Althouse said...

What's up with all the semi-colons in Jarrar?

"This dance form is originally ours, and does not exist so that white women can have a better sense of community; can gain a deeper sense of sisterhood with each other; can reclaim their bodies; can celebrate their sexualities; can perform for the female gaze."

paul a'barge said...

Not kidding. Do the images.google.com search and see.

Lyssa said...

Basically everything is appropriated from somewhere else if you look back far enough. The Italian side of my family loves to make pasta with marinara sauce, yet neither pasta nor tomatoes have origins in Italy.

Scott M said...

What's up with all the semi-colons in Jarrar?

Those aren't semi-colons.

She's using the the closest thing she can find on her keyboard to the Arabic letter "thaal". Because authenticity.

Bob Ellison said...

She taught Writing, Professor. Don't question.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mccullough said...

The Nazis appropriating the swastika is perhaps the most infamous appropriation.

Like most racists, thIs woman's deepest fear is miscegenation.

mccullough said...

Arab men like white belly dancers. American men like strippers. Clothes are as annoying as foreplay.

Shouting Thomas said...

The sensible musician steals licks and techniques from everybody. I do.

The "cultural appropriation" bit is laughable egghead stupidity.

"White guys stole the blues from blacks," is my favorite example of this stupidity.

The father of the British blues scene, John Mayall, was born in 1933. The father of the U.S. blues scene, B.B. King was born in 1927. Mayall and King are contemporaries. Blues was always the place where white and black culture intersected.

The greatest blues acts of the past 50 years are B.B. King, Eric Clapton and Hot Tuna. Two out of those three are white.

This shit is so stupid. Louis Armstrong defied this crap his entire life, and was called an "Uncle Tom" for it. He borrowed from everybody, but his performing style was lifted from black vaudeville and minstrel.

Ray Charles and Willie Nelson deliberately recorded an album together in an attempt to educate people about the absence of a racial divide between blues and country, but what did that accomplish in the face of stupid race hustlers? Nothing.

Academics should stay out of the arts. They are out of their league when it comes to the arts.

The best musicians don't care about anything except whether a tune sounds good.

"If it sounds good, it is good," in the immortal words of Duke Ellington.

RecChief said...

Personally, I would rather there were more pictures of white belly dancers in that article. you know, so I can judge for myself

furious_a said...

Here is the author of this article:

Holy sh*t, when she sits around the house she SITS AROUND THE HOUSE.

It must take her all morning to struggle into her burkha..or however many it takes.

Scott M said...

Not kidding. Do the images.google.com search and see.

Based on that picture, I'd say she's guilty of quite a bit of appropriation.

Just as an aside, when someone mails something to her, how do they know which two zip codes she's in?

Virgil Hilts said...

Salon is doing for racial PC politics what MacKinnon and Dworkin did for radical feminism. If the Koch brothers are not already secretly funding Salon, they should.

RecChief said...

ST- you left out Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, Elmore James, Albert King, and Stevie Ray Vaughan

MadisonMan said...

White people engaging in their own culture = white supremacy.

There is no white culture.

I do wonder how much energy that author expends in maintaining her outrage. I suspect it affects her health.

RecChief said...

how dare you fat shame that woman!

By the way, has michelle obama met her? just wondering what happens when two streams collide.

Bob Ellison said...

And Bix Beiderbecke and Joseph Lamb.

Seeing Red said...

Can a woman of color please write an article about Saudi Arabia and India celebrating St. Valentine's Day? I also want my Christmas lights and Santa back from the Chinese.

I believe they are unclear on the concept of "melting pot."

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

Ann Althouse said... What's up with all the semi-colons in Jarrar?

don't whitesplain althouse.

Scott M said...

By the way, has michelle obama met her? just wondering what happens when two streams collide

Maybe they have already met. That would explain what happened to Egon last week.

RecChief said...

There is no white culture? you ever been to Oktoberfest or an Irish dance competition? How about a Robert Burns poetry reading or a Bauhaus exhibit? how about the culture of hard work and thrift? oh yeah, about those last two examples...I can see where you would think that "white culture" is dead

Shouting Thomas said...

@RecChief

All those guys are among my heroes.

Many I heard in small clubs in Chicago.

I threw back shots with Muddy Waters in the back room of a small club in Chi-town.

I said in the last 50 years. I probably should have included Muddy in that pantheon. He was a stunning performer, a brilliant slide guitar player and a very funny guy.

Seeing Red said...

She is Aldo unfamiliar with the concept of "global."

Are there Chinese belly dancers in china?

Sorun said...

By writing in the English language, the author is engaging in appropriation.

Seeing Red said...

There is no white culture? Shakespeare?

RecChief said...

Bob Ellison said...
And Bix Beiderbecke and Joseph Lamb.

Now we're mixing jazz in? game on. I'll see your Bix and Lamb and raise with Dave Brubeck, Oscar Peterson, and Dizzy Gillespie

Vile Pliskin said...

Scott M

Precisely.

Drugs going north = American demand problem

Guns going south = American supply problem

People going north = Americans are lazy and exploitive problem

People going south = Americans are still into Sammy Hagar problem

Ok, that last one is pretty on the mark.

Seeing Red said...

What in the HELL is a person of authenticity?

Drago said...

Howard: "What she is protesting against is Celtic and Viking women doing belly dancing"

How dare you attempt to reinterpret her remarks!

And you, a white male!

Is Howards comment an example of microaggression, macroaggression, or as crack would put it, "literally lynching this women of color"?

dhagood said...

"person of authenticity"? jesus h. christ...

Diamondhead said...

RecChief, you're not really giving examples of "White Culture" - you're giving examples of German culture, Irish culture, Scottish culture. The closest thing to general white culture in your list would probably be the Bauhaus exhibit.

Drago said...

Madisonman: "There is no white culture."

I suppose it's easy to forget that there really is white culture. However in the states everything has been mashed together on top of the left telling us over and over there is no white culture, except for the very very very bad kind in contrast with the wonderful and colorful and loving and endearing cultures of the people of the sun.

Drago said...

Seeing Red: "What in the HELL is a person of authenticity?"

Non-caucasians, obviously.

MattL said...

Thoughtcrime detected. We've always been at war with cultural appropriation.

Drago said...

Seeing Red said...
There is no white culture? Shakespeare?

Sorry.

DWEM's are over-represented in the academy and therefore their influence and teachings must be reduced.

Except for Marx.

He was absolutely wonderful.

Shouting Thomas said...

I used to play Kingston Mines in Chicago with my late wife, Myrna.

Kingston Mines, not Buddy Guy's, is the best blues club in town. Real raw neighborhood bands, not the national traveling acts you'll see at Buddy Guy's.

Check it out. You'll be surprised how often a Japanese guy is the lead guitar player in the band.

That's some cultural appropriation!

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sorun said...

"There is no white culture."

Racism is an example of white culture.

Henry said...

"person of authenticity" is exactly the right term. In identity politics, assertions of logic, principle, even fact, have no standing against the assertion of authenticity. That is the only competition. The most subjective wins.

chickenlittle said...

Randa Jarrar has appropriated the English language for her own writing. Following her logic, it would make most sense if she confined her own writing to English words borrowed from Middle Eastern culture and languages. The list is longer than she probably thinks, so she wouldn't be bereft of words and ululations.

William said...

Pole dancing is an authentic manifestation of white trash culture. And yet this art form is increasingly being appropriated by women of color and even white women of couture. A pole dancer without a tattoo is like an egg without salt.

RecChief said...

Diamondhead said...
"RecChief, you're not really giving examples of "White Culture" - you're giving examples of German culture, Irish culture, Scottish culture. The closest thing to general white culture in your list would probably be the Bauhaus exhibit."

Weren't all those countries white before colonial times? Interesting that you would break it down on national lines when everyone talks about "black culture" and "arab culture" as if they were monolithic

furious_a said...

"There is no white culture."

Jell-o molds? Covered-dish potlucks? Toastmasters?

Shouting Thomas said...

There is no white culture.

Trailer parks with pink flamingoes.

I rest my case.

furious_a said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shouting Thomas said...

When I first start going to blues jam sessions in Chicago, back when I was a kid, one of the favorite tricks of the black guys was to...

Play a set together...

Then invite the awe struck white guys up to sit in...

Then leave the stage...

Leaving five or six white guys up there looking at each other with, as they said in The Godfather, nothing but their dicks in their hands.

That was always amusing.

Tank said...

White culture.

English, Scotish, Irish, Italian, Swiss, Belgium, Swedish, Greek, French, Spanish, etc are all white culture.

We're not talking American culture. White culture is great culture (and some not so great, true of all cultures).

furious_a said...

The hyphenated last name is so cliche'.

I do wonder how much energy that author expends in maintaining her outrage.

I wonder how much energy the author expends in getting off of a sofa?

Whichever, it clearly requires lots of pastries.

RecChief said...

"
Kingston Mines, not Buddy Guy's, is the best blues club in town"

back when I had frequent trips to chicago, I used to go to Milt Trenier's, when it was in the old Chez Paree building on N. Fairbanks. small club, but it was a blast. Wonder whatever happened to Milt. From what I remember he closed the club in the late '90s

furious_a said...

Irish culture's greatest gift to the world is the head-butt.

Henry said...

"There is no white culture."
Yogurt. Cottage Cheese. Penicillin.

Scott M said...

Yogurt. Cottage Cheese. Penicillin.

I'm glad you included penicillin on that list because my pun is burning.

Brando said...

Bigots come in all colors, folks!

Imagine whether Salon would have published a piece from a white person about how they don't like black people playing hockey or sailing yachts. Oh, that'd be horribly bigoted and ignorant, you say? Then explain how this is any different, you racist.

Call these things out for what they are--pure race hatred. News flash--if you hate other races this much then go create some secret compound out in the desert where you can hang out with people you specially choose and never have to interact with those different from you. You won't be missed.

chickenlittle said...

The last time I forgot, a white woman came out in Arab drag — because that’s what that is, when a person who’s not Arab wears genie pants and a bra and heavy eye makeup and Arabic jewelry, or jewelry that is meant to read as “Arabic” because it’s metallic and shiny and has squiggles of some kind — and began to belly-dance.

Her loathing of Barbara Eden is palpable.

SGT Ted said...

I am not a generally a fan of video on the internet, but this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynYwTU7z6BI

That is where people need to go and do and be as individuals.

Those people are inspirational.

furious_a said...

"There is no white culture."

Spaceflight. Cleft-palate surgeries for third-world kids. The Dick vanDyke Show

Tank said...

furious_a said...

Irish culture's greatest gift to the world is the head-butt.


I would, respectfully, say it's the Irish Pub. What a wonderful, community oriented, friendly place. And Guinness.

Patrick said...

Paul Abarge's 10:57 comment, combined with this:
At my wedding, I was my own dancer. , kind of makes me shudder.

Sorry.

furious_a said...

because that’s what that is...

What is it when an Arab gets a polio vaccination, or has surgery in a modern operating room under anaesthesia?

SGT Ted said...

Sorun,

Racism is an example of human nature.

FTFY.

Mary Martha said...

Recently the world champion Irish Step Dancer was an America. More to the point he was an American who had a Jewish mother from Iowa and a Black father from Goergia (who happens to be a Baptist minister).

Was he 'appropriating the white (Irish, Celtic) culture? Would this writer find it acceptable for Irish people to say that a Black or Jewish person should not Irish Dance?

Of course in the reporting about this young man it is clear that the (white) Irish dance community has embraced him. I wonder why this woman can't do the same for whtie belly dancers?

AReasonableMan said...

"There is no white culture."

Calculus and evolution.

Rusty said...

"But what about that racism? How bothersome is it for a person of authenticity to express exasperation for the appropriation of some attribute of her culture for re-presentation by an outsider to that culture? "

If that's what you spend your day worrying about, you have way too much time on your hands.

AReasonableMan said...

"There is no white culture."

Statistics and CNC machines.

Clayton Hennesey said...

Hey, get with the program. Everybody's curating.

Diamondhead said...

RecChief, Irish culture is different from Italian culture or Spanish culture or Polish culture or even English culture. If you have access to a greater level of precision, why not take advantage of it? The US and Canada are homogenized enough to have a "white" culture I suppose, but then we're talking about shopping malls, drive-in movies, and coca-cola - not Oktoberfest and Robert Burns.

Civilis said...

And appropriating something that has spiritual meaning can be a big problem, unless you want to tear down the culture from which you appropriate (and in which case members of that culture are entitled to be insulted).

Question for discussion: which appropriation of traditionally African-American Gospel music be less appropriate: A non-African-American singing Gospel in church, or an African-American singing Gospel divorced from its Christian roots? Which culture has claim over that particular manifestation?

AReasonableMan said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
AReasonableMan said...

Shouting Thomas said...
The father of the British blues scene, John Mayall, was born in 1933. The father of the U.S. blues scene, B.B. King was born in 1927. Mayall and King are contemporaries. Blues was always the place where white and black culture intersected.

The greatest blues acts of the past 50 years are B.B. King, Eric Clapton and Hot Tuna. Two out of those three are white.


This is the usual clueless BS. The blues didn't start with BB King, and Hot Tuna?????

Anonymous said...

First, the gal is a whopper, a veritable one woman dance troop.

Second white culture: Paying for everyone else while taking nothing but crap from same.

The Crack Emcee said...

Gays are curating the term Jim Crow.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ann Althouse,

"Appropriating something that has spiritual meaning can be a big problem, unless you want to tear down the culture from which you appropriate (and in which case members of that culture are entitled to be insulted)."

That would be yoga "curated" as exercise,….

RecChief said...

"Diamondhead said...
RecChief, Irish culture is different from Italian culture or Spanish culture or Polish culture or even English culture. If you have access to a greater level of precision, why not take advantage of it? The US and Canada are homogenized enough to have a "white" culture I suppose, but then we're talking about shopping malls, drive-in movies, and coca-cola - not Oktoberfest and Robert Burns."

That's what I am getting at though. There is no "black culture" because the culture is different in Kenya than it is in Cameroon or Jamaica or Australia. Same thing for "arab" culture, if you don't think there are differences between Yemen and Morocco and Jordan, go there and explain that to them. Just saying, if we are going to use one level of precision in one instance, we should use the same level of precision in all conversations.

Shouting Thomas said...

This is the usual clueless BS. The blues didn't start with BB King, and Hot Tuna?????

Who said it did, Mr. Clueless?

Now, let's hear your version of where the blues started. After you make a complete jackass out of yourself, I give you my version.

The Crack Emcee said...

"Salon became a hardcore racist mag so gradually I barely noticed."


I could spend the rest of my life talking about what Instapundit doesn't notice,...

Shouting Thomas said...

ARM and Crack arrive to inflict their humorless, stupid, destructive, godawful brain dead obsessions upon a discussion that was once humorous.

I suspect they are the same person. How could two people be that stupid in such similar ways?

Perhaps there is a culture of brain dead stupidity?

Shouting Thomas said...

I could spend the rest of my life talking about what Instapundit doesn't notice,...

And, nobody would care. Or bother to read it.

Civilis said...

There is no white culture.


There may be a generic white culture as seen from outside, in the same way that someone that doesn't look too closely may see an African culture or an East Asian culture. Certainly, I can go to a generically Asian restaurant and get dishes that superficially mimic Chinese, Korean and Thai cooking, and they may even be tasty. They can't claim to be authentic or even recognizable to someone within or more than casually familiar with the culture (and yet still worth eating if tasty).

My first boss was half-Japanese. She'd take us on special occasions to the local hibachi restaurant, not caring that the owners and staff were Chinese. This didn't make it somehow any worse; the cooking was still fine. The fact that it was being run by someone of the wrong culture didn't make it evil.

Even breaking cultures down by nations is not enough at times; pay attention at Chinese or Mexican restaurants and you can spot the regional ethnicities in cooking techniques.

We can speak from outside of a generic Asian (or white) culture, but that breaks down when we look at it closer, and those too break down. When we're dealing with people, we can't assume that any of the larger generalizations hold out.

Tom said...

I think Glenn is just using Saul Alinksy's 12 Rules for Radicals: Rule 4: Use Their Rules Against Them to point out silly racism. I, personally, welcome the mocking tactic.

Shouting Thomas said...

Don't take all day, dumb asses.

I've got some rehearsing to do, then I'm off to play in my kid band. They're probably all in their 30s, but they seem like kids to me.

Coupla black guys in the band, too.

You just kiss black ass, ARM. I actually associate with and work with blacks. That's why I don't need Crack for my Token Black Friend.

What is it with pieces of shit like you that you get a kick out of kissing black ass?

B said...

I felt uncomfortable when, on "American Idol" last night, they had the Cuban-American female contestant bring the Latin dance attitude and then they criticized her for failing to lay it on heavily enough.

Maybe it's not prevalent in Madison, but in LA, local reporters lay the accent on thick whenever they come across a Spanish word. See this Married with Children clip for reference:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1RlWqY5kww

Shouting Thomas said...

The "father of the blues" thing is an honorific title often used by musicians and writers to honor the stature of B.B. King and John Mayall, not an assertion that the blues started with them.

Go ahead, ARM, make an ass out of yourself.

You always do.

chickenlittle said...

@B:

Hey, I mocked that very concept in chirbit, mimicking a taped recording by a museum curator in a Florentine church. The docent was asking the listener to take note of a Giotto fresco or something.

chickenlittle said...

The Brits and the Americans are forever bending over backwards to accommodate, but they only get swift kicks as a reward.

Anonymous said...

"I could spend the rest of my life talking about what Instapundit doesn't notice,..."
************
"And, nobody would care. Or bother to read it."
*************
And nobody cares about what Shouty says and does on any given day or hour. Nobody gives a rat's ass about his so called music except maybe to make sure to wear ear plugs. It's amusing to see how he thinks that by continually updating us on his activities we might just consider him normal.

Shouting Thomas said...

I don't recall ever aspiring to be "normal."

Diamondhead said...

"That's what I am getting at though. There is no "black culture" because the culture is different in Kenya than it is in Cameroon or Jamaica or Australia. Same thing for "arab" culture, if you don't think there are differences between Yemen and Morocco and Jordan, go there and explain that to them. Just saying, if we are going to use one level of precision in one instance, we should use the same level of precision in all conversations."

I see what you mean. I would say there is an "African-American culture" at least in the US because by and large black people here lost their identification with whatever culture they they were part of and became homogenized to an extent, but there is no "black culture" as that would encompass over a billion people and numerous distinct ways of life.

Tatiana Karina said...

Belly dancing isn't about what shape,size,color or gender you are it's about why you do it I do it because all other dance types want you to be a size two I'm not a size two! As for is she being racist yes I think she is

Bob Ellison said...

Sydney Bechet, off-race-topic, "Blue Horizon".

Paco Wové said...

"nobody cares about what Shouty says"

Inga - if you're going to adopt new sockpuppet names, it would probably be helpful to also adopt a new writing style that isn't so obviously like your previous writing style(s).

Drago said...

Why did Inga choose MadisonMa'am as a sockpuppet?

Was it crack's "cunt" incident where Inga flamed out that caused her to change her online persona so that she could have a fresh start lobbing her broadsides?

"broadsides"

Microagression.

Drago said...

I see Paco beat me to it by seconds.

Yet a win is a win.

mccullough said...

Diamondhead,

Many blacks in the US aren't descendants of slaves. Obama is only the most prominent example. African father and white mother of varying ethnicities. What culture would you call that?

Anonymous said...

FWIW: The 2nd biggest Japanese city in the world is Sao Paulo, Brazil.

Several years ago while working at Qualcomm, I worked with a Brazilian engineer with a Danish name. His family immigrated to Brazil after WW11 and he was learning English. The only other language he spoke was Portuguese. He did not consider himself Danish and had never been to Denmark.

Drago said...

Diamondhead: "I would say there is an "African-American culture" at least in the US because by and large black people here lost their identification with whatever culture they they were part of and became homogenized to an extent, but there is no "black culture" as that would encompass over a billion people and numerous distinct ways of life."

There does seem to be quite a large contingent of actual Africans who believe that as well and overall are not impressed by the African-Americans.

I personally don't think it's a very fair perception and could be largely driven by media portrayals, but that's just the way it is.

The belief that blacks in America are lazy is quite widely believed and accepted by "authentic" "sun peoples" of color in many other places around the globe.

Not sure how you can "fix" a perception such as that.

Drago said...

mccullough: "What culture would you call that?"

Certainly in obama's case it was a privileged one.

I Have Misplaced My Pants said...

As a devout Christian, it made me uncomfortable when my Japanese friend was explaining how Christmas is celebrated in Japan: it's evidently a romantic couple's holiday with no religious connotations whatsoever. Also, it seems, the song What a Friend We Have In Jesus is very popular at Japanese weddings, where again it is devoid of awareness of or respect for the religious devotion that is its purpose for being.

But--here's the ProTip for our bellydancing friend--other people giving a different meaning to Your Thing does not take away, for you, the meaning of Your Thing.

Diamondhead said...

Mccullough, I don't know - he was raised by white people, lived in Indonesia and Hawaii, and idolized an African deadbeat father. To whatever extent he's a part of African-American culture, it's because he has "appropriated" it for political gain.

Dustin said...

"But what about that racism? How bothersome is it for a person of authenticity to express exasperation for the appropriation of some attribute of her culture for re-presentation by an outsider to that culture? "

I don't know how bothered you should be, but it is racism, and racism is evil. There's no honest way around it. Once in a while one still runs into someone who thinks whites are so subhuman and so lacking in rights, as a race, that it is not possible to be racist against them, much as racists centuries ago thought of their slaves.

When one's racism reaches that extreme level it's not exactly better.

Personally, recommend not letting contemporary racists ruin your day. Some of them are really just trolling for attention.

Michael said...

MadisonM'am can't be Inga because at the margins Madison Ma'am is a lot dumber. On the other hand Madison Ma'am does seem to view this blog as a "chat room" or a place to make her mark with pithy but out of context one liners. Perhaps there are sisters involved.

RecChief said...

"Some of them are really just trolling for attention."

Or clicks to their own websites

Rick M said...

This is why you should never read more than a dozen or so comments on any topic at AA:

Michael said...
"MadisonM'am can't be Inga because at the margins Madison Ma'am is a lot dumber. On the other hand Madison Ma'am does seem to view this blog as a "chat room" or a place to make her mark with pithy but out of context one liners. Perhaps there are sisters involved."

Bob Ellison said...

OK, RecChief, I'm upping the bet late with Stevie Wonder, Paul McCartney, Elton John and Bernie Taupin, Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber (sp?), and Sam Cooke.

Rick M said...

Sometimes I do hit the "End" key, just to see how low the discussions devolve.

Jane the Actuary said...

What a bizarre article! Is that what Salon is always like? She never articulates any reason why it's bad for white women to belly-dance, except that "it's mine! And I don't want to share!"

There are no copyrights when it comes to traditional dance forms.

Patrick said...

Seriously, though, I wonder how closely affiliated with a culture this woman would have us be before we were no longer "appropriating" the culture. What if a belly dancer was say, half Arabic? Would it matter if the Arabic came from the paternal side? Would Elizabeth Warren, for example, be accused of "appropriating" Native American culture if she started wearing traditional garb, and doing traditional dances? What about an Arabic person who was raised in an entirely American environment, without any exposure to American culture. Would she be "appropriating" a culture if she started belly dancing?

At least we know how this woman feels about diversity, though.

B said...

Inga - if you're going to adopt new sockpuppet names, it would probably be helpful to also adopt a new writing style that isn't so obviously like your previous writing style(s).

Well, better than the sockpuppet she created some time back that used her daughter's picture as the avatar. You aren't talking a balanced load of bricks here.

zefal said...

I liked to be called a "person without color". TY!

Anonymous said...

Who is this beautiful, intelligent vixen Inga I am comstantly being compared to? She must be some really hot chick for y'all to give her so much attention when she isn't even posting here. Gosh I wish I was this Inga, don't you? So Inga do you live in Madison too? We should get together! I bet we even look alike in real life. Iv'e had people tell me they've seen someone who looks just like me around Madison. Doppelgänger, woo.

Anonymous said...

So, B, did this Inga dump you or something? You sound sort of bitter.

chickenlittle said...

Speaking of Althouse "characters" ...what ever happened to the lovely Fiona McGee?

I hope she shows for St. Paddy's Day

The Crack Emcee said...

The difference between what happens here, when the racists are left alone, and a KKK website?

None. Same topics, commented on in the exact same way. And, because there's no one around to correct you, you believe the bullshit you spout. It's truly unbelievable.

Like looking at real life through a Funhouse Mirror.

BTW - I especially enjoy the description of blacks, who were supposed to be worked to death, now being called "lazy". Are you sure that's what it is?

I swear, if there was ever a black person who bought into the myth of whites being bright, hanging around you guys for a little while will surely disprove it.

Lazy thinkers is what you are...

Anonymous said...

Poultryperson, you have to cluck three times and pluck out a few feathers and Fiona McGee might just make an appearance. Better yet sacrifice yourself at the next Santeria chicken blood ritual. ;)

Shouting Thomas said...

The difference between what happens here, when the racists are left alone, and a KKK website?

You are an hilariously stupid piece of shit, Crack.

Fen said...

There is no white culture

Yes there is - its called Western Civilization.

We conquered you and took the best parts of your culture as our own.

And don't act so righteous. Your culture was trying to conquer too. You just got your cultural-ass kicked. Now go make me a vase.

furious_a said...

updating us on his activities we might just consider him normal.

Sockpuppet Inga assumes anyone ("us","we") besides her cats and her on-line identities gives a sh*t about what she considers about anything.

Anonymous said...

Fen and Shouty vying for the stupidest commenter award? Too close to call.

Bob R said...

There is nothing more authentic than a lecture on authenticity from a person born in Chicago and educated at Sarah Lawrence and University of Michigan. Fawn Liebowitz, come get your friend.

Anonymous said...

Haha, ugly dog, bite me or bite that gorgeous creature Inga, y'all can't stop talking about.

gerry said...

I will agree with the sentiment in regards white and asian women twerking.

Islamist women do the burqa twerk.

Fen said...

There is nothing more authentic than a lecture on authenticity from a person born in Chicago and educated at Sarah Lawrence and University of Michigan.

"You speak Roman as if you had been bred in the Forum; you wear a Roman toga; your hair is filleted in Roman fashion — are not these the gifts of Rome?”

“We would take all the learning and all the arts that Rome or Greece could give, but we would still be Britain, and ruled by Britons.”

The viceroy smiled. “By the rood of Saint Helena,” said he, “had you spoken thus to some of my heathen ancestors, there would have been an end to your politics. That you have dared to stand before my face and say as much is a proof for ever of the gentleness of our rule.


http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/d/doyle/arthur_conan/galley/part1.7.html

furious_a said...

"There is no white culture."

Whit Stillman movies. Pledge drives. Bushwood Country Club.

furious_a said...

Crack: I could spend the rest of my life talking about what Instapundit doesn't notice,...

...and you'd still have single-digit site views.

great Unknown said...

Her problem is that she attacked white females, who are still somewhat of a protected group.

Had she attacked white male belly dancers, I think the whole world would have agreed with her.

RecChief said...

"There is no white culture."

Slim Whitman

Lydia said...

Althouse asks..."How bothersome is it for a person of authenticity to express exasperation for the appropriation of some attribute of her culture for re-presentation by an outsider to that culture?"

Pretty bothersome when said "person of authenticity" has this post on her very own website -- Have a very Muslim Christmas:

We light candles, bust out the Latin edition of Dr. Seuss’s Grinch, listen to the It’s a Charlie Brown Xmas album, and decorate the tree with Dollar Store ornaments, since I don’t want to buy too much into the Capitalist Xmas Frenzy. It’s festive and pagan and helps me honor my kid self, who always loved the idea of a Xmas tree...

But then since she's obviously an idiot, I probably shouldn't be bothered.

traditionalguy said...

Belly dancing done right is several sensuous females twisting while shaking partially pregnant looking bellies done as a sensuous background dance for over an hour.

The result is the dining men's un-conscious Freudian minds get highly sexually aroused for the night. But the dancers are never the sex partners...that would be actually doing mother.

RecChief said...

"She must be some really hot chick for y'all to give her so much attention when she isn't even posting"

could be, it sure isn't because of the quality or depth of her thinking

Anglelyne said...

Thank you for your penetrating insights, Ms. Jarrar. The scales have fallen from my eyes. For my entire life I've been attending concerts of music in the Western classical tradition, oblivious to the flagrant acts of cultural appropriation on display at almost every one of them.

From now on, no more tickets, no more season subscriptions, no more recordings until all those insensitive East Asian artists have been shamed into stepping away from the pianos and laying down their violins and cellos! I don't care how good they seem to be! Somehow, they're doing it all wrong! They must be!

The Crack Emcee said...

furious_a said...
Crack: I could spend the rest of my life talking about what Instapundit doesn't notice,...

...and you'd still have single-digit site views.


And you'll still believe Romney is winning.

Anonymous said...

Shouting Thomas: I love your posts. Some of my very best friends are Black too.

donald said...

Man, she's a load huh?

EMD said...

"There is no white culture."

WES FUCKING ANDERSON

EMD said...

Several years ago while working at Qualcomm, I worked with a Brazilian engineer with a Danish name. His family immigrated to Brazil after WW11 and he was learning English. The only other language he spoke was Portuguese. He did not consider himself Danish and had never been to Denmark.

Was he a human being?

Because isn't that really all that matters?

donald said...

A burkah would work.

EMD said...

Man, she's a load huh?

Fat MD = Hypocrite

RecChief said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Scott M said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

RecChief wins the thread.

Ralph Hyatt said...

"Of course in the reporting about this young man it is clear that the (white) Irish dance community has embraced him. I wonder why this woman can't do the same for whtie belly dancers

Cause she's a racist.

This whole cultural appropriation idea is just racism in a wig and fake beard.

gerry said...

Famous Jewish sports legends.

Marshal said...

Diamondhead said...
The US and Canada are homogenized enough to have a "white" culture I suppose, but then we're talking about shopping malls, drive-in movies, and coca-cola - not Oktoberfest and Robert Burns.

3/6/14, 12:09 PM


How about Rock Music and freedom?

Diamondhead said...

Yes, freedom used to be an American ideal, as did individualism.

Diamondhead said...

And lest you think otherwise, I did not choose to bring those things up in a belittling way. Looking at them again, they do sound a bit corny - like 1950's nostalgia.

Ralph Hyatt said...

I'm pretty sure this is racist, especially the Asian kid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xOx62kyJOE

Marshal said...

Diamondhead said...
they do sound a bit corny - like 1950's nostalgia.


"Corny"? Freedom is so popular even those diametrically opposed claim to be for it.

Scott said...

My comment "This is dull" was deleted. I apologize for making it. What I really meant to say was:

It's so utterly fascinating; nay, enlightening to read the sharp repartee between the token aggrieved African American nativist and the pigheaded white idlers. This is what makes this blog unique .

You can delete this one too.

Michael K said...

"There does seem to be quite a large contingent of actual Africans who believe that as well and overall are not impressed by the African-Americans."

I have met a fair number of real Africans and they are all of the opinion that American blacks are so hung up on "racism" that they fail at far too many things. The same holds true for many Caribbean blacks. They are not as hung up as people like Crack.

I understand it tales a couple of generations. Jews were pretty obsessed with anti-Semitism until the past 50 years. There was quite a bit of it so that was understandable but they have mostly gotten over the imaginary variety.

The most anti-Semitic people I have met are American blacks. Interesting contrast.

Ralph Hyatt said...

More racism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eanxvveN9GI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eanxvveN9GI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_ERJqfYItE

Jarrar's basic position, and the publics' reaction:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3eTSbC3neA

Ralph Hyatt said...

If I understand leftist ideology correctly:

1) No inherent differences between genders, in fact the very idea of gender is a cultural construct.

3) Race is a cultural construct with no scientific basis.

3) Culture is genetic and genetically determined. Different racial subgroups should not "appropriate" each others cultures.

Diamondhead said...

"Corny"? Freedom is so popular even those diametrically opposed claim to be for it.

I meant coca-cola and drive-in movies sound corny...not freedom.

Gahrie said...

And appropriating something that has spiritual meaning can be a big problem, unless you want to tear down the culture from which you appropriate (and in which case members of that culture are entitled to be insulted).

Something say like, .....marriage?

Marshal said...

Diamondhead said...
"Corny"? Freedom is so popular even those diametrically opposed claim to be for it.

I meant coca-cola and drive-in movies sound corny


That was my point with freedom. You're focusing on things too small. American culture is fantastic, but it's so ubiquitous it's hard to see. Those goddamn appropriaters ruin everything.

Peter said...

Authenticity is over-rated.

Every successful culture has stolen whatever it could use from other cultures. As anyone would know who's studied any history at all.

Yet now we're supposed to submit to a blood quantum test before engaging in certain performing arts??

Drago said...

"BTW - I especially enjoy the description of blacks, who were supposed to be worked to death, now being called "lazy". Are you sure that's what it is?"

I'm quite sure laziness is not what it is.

But the Africans think differently.

What would you say to them, once you got past your rantings about what you are owed and how everything is whitey's fault, which, unfortunately, would utterly undermine your remaining message and buttress the Africans beliefs about you.

Conundrum.

But conundrum is latin.

So don't go using it.

Think instead of an appropriate swahili or setswana word instead.

Drago said...

Ralph Hyatt said...
If I understand leftist ideology correctly:

1) No inherent differences between genders, in fact the very idea of gender is a cultural construct.

3) Race is a cultural construct with no scientific basis.

3) Culture is genetic and genetically determined. Different racial subgroups should not "appropriate" each others cultures


Spot. On.

And it goes without saying that the left utilizes whichever "rule" it needs to in order to win the day, even if today's rule directly contradicts yesterdays rule.

And if you happen to notice the unavoidable contradiction, well, you know: "h8ter"

furious_a said...

And it goes without saying that the left utilizes whichever "rule" it needs to in order to win the day, even if today's rule directly contradicts yesterdays rule.

Oceania has *always* been at war with Eastasia.

furious_a said...

Seriously, does anybody at Salon have a sense of humor?

Baby boomer humor’s big lie: “Ghostbusters” and “Caddyshack” really liberated Reagan and Wall Street

Tarrou said...

Well, amid all this condescension, You all miss the most important point. Ms. Jarrar has clearly solved all the other problems of middle eastern women if she's down to bitching about other people trying to dance like them.

She has single-handedly ended forced marriage, the execution of "witches", honor killings, FGM, legalized female driving, ended acid throwing and bride prices. You may mock this article, but this is the clarion announcement that an "author" just saved a third of the women on the planet. She will go down in history as a greater person than Norman Borlaug. All hail Ms. Jarrar!

Dale Light said...

Back in the late Sixties or early Seventies Eric Hobsbawm did a long essay on the early history of jazz in which he showed that white musicians contributed strongly to both jazz and blues traditions. Of course, as a prominent Marxist scholar he was trying to show that these were originally class-based, rather than purely ethnic music forms. Apparently, there was a lot of cross-fertilization, cultural as well as physical, going on amongst the poor of all races. It would be a mistake to label it "cultural appropriation". Recently Thaddeus Russell has pointed to Jewish contributions to early jazz. Like Shouting Thomas I spent a fair amount of time on North Halstead Street when I was younger and agree, the "Mines" was the best.


Anonymous said...

Read it. Stupid pov. No one was earning the big bucks off the originator culture here. It was just a white belly dancer who was too skinny in her opinion. On that point I agree. Same with the American ice dancing gold medalist. Her middle eastern costume looked subpar on a skinny white girl. But she wasn't raping a culture.

Does she get all butt hurt about Yo Yo Ma appropriating white culture?

I would file this under #firstworldproblems.