February 1, 2014
"If you don't mind, I must tell you that I am so glad that you are not some angry black man!"
"I am an angry black man," Reverend Alex Gee said. "Why would you think I wasn't angry over what is happening in and to my community? Is it because I put on my best face and 'safe' black voice for you today?"
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63 comments:
Shoe's on the other foot....the black man is failing Madison.
Angry blacks are almost as tiresome as angry women.
It isn't Madison unless some liberal is pissed off.
The less injustice, and the thousand little cuts, and the less anger, demands for social justice, Leftist victimhood, NPR boomer liberal vague solidarity etc.
And hopefully much less radicalism in response to the injustice, Marxism, cultural Marxism, Nation Of Islam prison conversions etc.
There are racial and cultural differences of course, and a long history, but we all benefit from a growing economy, or there's more likely to be more agreement on that matter
I'm with the reverend on this. He has every reason to be angry. That Madison progressives are not angry should be a mark of shame on them.
Madison is the most racist, or one of the most racist cities in the US.
See this report from the Wisconsin Council on Families and Children
http://racetoequity.net/dev/wp-content/uploads/WCCF-R2E-Report.pdf
Black/white unemployment Dane County 25/5% US 18/8%
Black/white children living in poverty 75/5% Madison, 39/14% US
Black/white Students who do not take ACT 79/44%, US 50/41%
Black/white juvenile arrest rates 469/77 per 1000, US 71/33
And so on. Read the whole thing.
That pastor has every right to be angry. If I was him, I might be out with pitchforks, tar and feathers hunting politicians.
John Henry
He can be angry all he wants, but nothing will change until he recognizes the causes.
The criminality in his community isn't caused by institutional racism or white privilege.
It is caused by adherence to the victim mentality that prefers to blame those two things alone, while not examining the destruction of the black family via welfare policy that leads to the feral males that are overwhelmingly criminals and gang members that conduct their criminal enterprises right out in the open, on the street.
Someone in the comments there posted up about the stats on how whites used far more drugs than blacks yet black were incarcerated more. First off, white don't conduct their illicit drug businesses openly in their neighborhoods; they've learned to be cagey. Secondly, the drug users tend to not be in racial drug gangs involved in other criminality and turf wars. They are just garden variety heads, or the type of typical drug criminal committing crimes to support the habit.
I could go on and on but the bottom line is that the reason there are horrendous differences between the two communities is that most white people don't act like black people do in their own neighborhoods.
If you won't recognize the real problems, you won't find any real solutions.
Anger and $4 can buy you a pretty good latte at Starbucks.
So, if I have this right, and I would not be surprised if I am, the liberal city of Madison in the liberal state of Wisconsin is filled with racists posing as pompous progressives, sneering at we southerners while incarcerating more black males than any other state. That would include Mississippi, right? That would include Alabama, right? Georgia? Evil Texas?
So stop with the lecturing.
This is a well written article about a serious problem. In trying to avoid appearing to be an angry black man, Rev. Alex Gee weakens his case.
"I hesitate a bit out of concern my close white friends may misread my anger as being directed at all white people. My anger is with systems, ignorance, insensitivity, prejudiced views and not with individuals."
Sorry pastor Gee, but racism like all other evils is individual and has to be remedied individually. We have already tried changing systems and it obviously has had limited success.
"My experience is that many white Madisonians have an inordinate fear of being seen as racist. That fear is so paralyzing that it impedes honest dialogue about discrimination, systemic racism and white privilege."
Excellent point. That is why the left is so odious when they call innocent people like the Tea Party racist. Only an evil person would treat another person that way. When the left calls an innocent white person racist the tends to arouse resentment in the white person against the race which the lefty claims to represent.
Also, reverse racism aka affirmative hiring etc. will only make matters worse by victimizing people who are not racist just because of their skin color.
"Wisconsin has the nation's worst rate of incarceration of young African-American males on a per capita basis, and Dane County is much worse than the state average."
This is a sobering statement. This would indicate that the state of the black community is worse in the "liberal" North than in the conservative South. Perhaps if lefties spent less time calling other people racist and more time looking into their own hearts there would be less racism.
"I invite Latino and Asian pastors to stand with us in solidarity."
Not going to happen. Each community has their own issues which often compete with the interests of the black community. Besides that, if Blacks, Hispanics and Asians really did unite against Whites because they are different races (ignoring the fact that Hispanics are often white themselves), that itself would be racist. That is the problem, racism is stamped into the human genome by evolution.
The only way to live together in harmony is for each person to look into his/her own heart, to confront our own inherent racism honestly, and to insist that government treat everyone equally under the law.
The politicians cannot help the black community, John. The black community has rejected the police, claiming they are racists for enforcing the law. Instead, they blame the police for enforcing the law on blacks as the reason that they have criminal records and are down and out.
As far as "profiling" goes; hey guess what? I've been profiled too, simply for my looks. Welcome to the club.
The Good Rev thinks that if they don't lock up the gang members for using drugs that they will have a better community. They have it backwards. They are blaming the wrong things for their plight.
Racism is such an easy corruption. It happens on sight. It takes active intelligence to see a man as a man despite a skin coloration difference.
Madisonians appear to be too lazy to accept black men. They just look like thugs at first sight, like that thug Montee Ball.
I do know enough about communities to note that corruption always starts at the top and comes down. If the leading authority in an area acts a certain way, that way becomes the norm. People are lazy.
The Rev. is angry at the wrong people.
He should be angry at all those black men who are committing crimes and consigning themselves to prison.
Nothing will change until blacks take responsibility for their own fuck-ups.
"Wisconsin has the nation's worst rate of incarceration of young African-American males on a per capita basis, and Dane County is much worse than the state average.
Wisconsin has by some measures the widest academic achievement gap between African-American and white students in the country, and Dane County is worse than the state average."
I actually read the whole thing and this is as close as he gets to the problem. ST named it. The reason why young black men are incarcerated is because they commit most of the crime.
Maybe he should ask himself why but he doesn't. It is all Madison's fault.
Criminality is mostly a choice. So, ultimately its the persons fault if they engage in criminality. No excuses and/or rationalizations.
The problem with black culture right now is the embrace of the thug life, pure and simple.thats what's destroying the community, and that's who's killing black people by and large. Other black people.
Listen to any gangsta rap where they talk about putting a cap in someone's ass, and what are they talking about. Killing their neighbor, who is most likely a black male.
Look at the dropout rate of blacks, not from college. But from high school! And look at how many blacks (usually politicized blacks, like the one discussed a few days ago who were going to stop cooperating at colleges and demanding quotas for blacks) trat other blacks who "talk white". UNcle Tom's!
in this day and age, after the civil rights movement we are still having this discussion?
Ask not what Madison can do for you, ask what you can do for Madison.
If it is so bad, the reverend should recommend blacks leave Madison just like families move from Philadelphia, when their kids reach school age, because the Philly public schools suck. Making good decisions and smart choices help one to have a good, productive life. If the Reverend thinks it is best to wait for the "system" to change for the better, he is just milking the current dysfunction to keep his job.
"the reverend should recommend blacks leave Madison just like families move from Philadelphia, when their kids reach school age, because the Philly public schools suck"
Read Clarence Thomas's biography, "My Grandfather's Son." His grandfather took him and his brother out of Savannah every summer to work on a small farm and keep them away from the street life.
Every teenager should read that book.
Who is more beloved in Madison?
Jay Z or the Pastor?
Tupac or the Pastor?
Lil Wayne or the Pastor?
Richard Sherman or the Pastor?
Note to Meade.
For those with eyes to see, this article demonstrates the damage that your guilty white boy act does to blacks.
Stop giving black men excuses.
You are part of the problem.
I kept looking in the article for Rev. Gee to tell me what "systems" need to be changed to reduce the rate of incarceration of black men or to improve the academic performance of black students, but I must have missed it.
These are very difficult problems, which largely need to be solved by the black community itself. Through his church and organization Rev. Gee may very well be contributing to this effort, but writing this article was a waste of his time.
That article was so much better than Obama's speech on race.
That article was so much better than Obama's speech on race.
Faint praise indeed.
She's saying she is glad he is not angry at her or the audience. Ie all whites.
This article started out poorly with the now usual references to disparities and inequalitites. These mean little by themselves without evidence of causes. So I started skimming and almost gave up on it. But then I got to the paster's personal story of profiling. If that story is true, even I would find it hard to grant the benefit of the doubt, and not see racism in every little event around me.
Liberals hate blacks, given what they've done to the blacks.
Here's a clue how to fix the problem in the long term: Have a vibrant charter school system in Madison.
Something the education unions are loathe to allow. The unions continue the cancer.
Someone in the comments there posted up about the stats on how whites used far more drugs than blacks yet black were incarcerated more. First off, white don't conduct their illicit drug businesses openly in their neighborhoods; they've learned to be cagey. "
This thread could have a thousand comments and none of them would hit the nail on the head as well as you did. Cops aren't by and large rocket scientists, they only go after what is openly visible to them.
Like John, I'm with the Rev Gee. Ever hear the expression, "driving while Black"? It's when some cop pulls you over for some bullshit reason like having a "Little Trees" air freshener hanging from your mirror; the subtext being that a black man in an old car shouldn't be driving through this white neighborhood.
Racism is real. It's not about burning a cross in somebody's yard. It's about being shunned; about having social engagement that is forced rather than natural. To Black people, racism is like a loud social tinnitus that spoils the joy of living.
White progressives are definitely more racist, no question. They'll only try to accept Black people to the extent that they'll vote for their candidates.
But at the same time, white conservatives who say that "black people need to clean up their act and not be inherently criminal before we white people can accept them," (the "driving while black" syndrome) are wrong.
Absolutely wrong. And if this is your attitude, shame on you. You're copping out, and your insularity is no moral high ground to stand on.
White people need to meaningfully engage black people every day in every way. If you're white, make it your 2014 resolution to get invited to worship in a Black church. And then keep coming back until you're comfortable. You will change in good ways.
@CWJ: If the pastor is entitled to perceive racism everywhere because of an inappropriate interrogation by the police, is a white woman, who had previously been the victim of a purse snatching, entitled to clutch her purse in the presence of a black stranger.
I read an article in The New Yorker which pointed out that 50% of the women in South Africa claim to have been raped and 25% of the men claim to have participated in a rape. There is also something known as "corrective rape". Women of lesbian appearance are singled out for rapes that involve excessive beatings.......Would South Africa benefit from a higher incarceration rate?
I don't doubt that there is something known as white racism and that black people are frequently the victims of it. It's not a figment of the Reverend's imagination. But, my goodness, wariness in the presence of black strangers is not racism.......The Reverend would probably not be the subject of invasive policing in Detroit, but neither would the young men who would shoot him for his car keys.
Long, rambling article with some gems but he has trouble focusing on the toughest questions without then wandering away.
If liberalism is so great for blacks, why is the Madison black scene so fucked up?
Why should blacks ever depend on whites, conservative or liberal, to be a source of solution to their problems?
If whites, conservative or liberal, are not part of the solution, what should blacks be doing to solve their own problems?
Most whites are not racist, unless you count indifference as racism. Most whites are not motivated to put huge effort into improving conditions in the black community. The whites who have professed interest in devoting energy to this problem are often either exploitive or wrongheaded, and make things worse.
So, my black fellow citizens, who is left to help? Look in the mirror, and while you are at it, think about how you can minimize the indifference and destructive tendencies in your own communities.
"White people need to meaningfully engage black people every day in every way. If you're white, make it your 2014 resolution to get invited to worship in a Black church. And then keep coming back until you're comfortable. You will change in good ways."
"Racism is ... about having social engagement that is forced rather than natural."
This looks like an impossible conflict, Scott.
Scott wrote:
White people need to meaningfully engage black people every day in every way. If you're white, make it your 2014 resolution to get invited to worship in a Black church. And then keep coming back until you're comfortable. You will change in good ways
sorry Scott, but that's awfully presumptuous and self hating of you. Why shouldn't it be that blacks spend time at white churches to realize that the majority of whites not only don't hate blacks but that there is no grand conspiracy against them keeping the black man down.
Why is your remedy that whites need to see the error of their ways. I'm white and you're not speaking for me.
And I already live in an integrated community and work with blacks whites and latinos every day of the year. And we all get along because race is simply not a factor.
Saying that whites need to do this, coming from a white is awfully elitist (ie you're that enlightened white guy in the bunch that can see racism in peoples hearts, and have none of it in yours) and coming from anyone who isn't white, well then its no different than a white saying blacks are a certain way.
Why is it that whites can't really criticize black culture without being racist, and only a Bill Cosby can weigh in on the ills of the black community but blacks can daily point out the flaws of the white man and white culture?
Anyone who reads the entire article will see that Rev. Gee is calling out the covert systemic institutionalized racism of Madison and Dane County's empowered liberal-left "progressive" elite. It's passed time.
Scott wrote:
Like John, I'm with the Rev Gee. Ever hear the expression, "driving while Black"? It's when some cop pulls you over for some bullshit reason like having a "Little Trees" air freshener hanging from your mirror; the subtext being that a black man in an old car shouldn't be driving through this white neighborhood.
About fifteen years ago my family and I (all white, though some looked very semitic and could pass for Muslims) were travelling to Vermont. A cop started following us and asked us to pull over. He then asked what we were doing there. We explained that we had missed a stop and were trying to find a certain house.
He then immediately calmed down and was very coopertative and told us how to get to where we needed to go.
Was he targeting us for driving with NY plates? Well maybe. But since we weren't belligerent back we were able to have a polite conversation and he realized we were there for a reason.
A lot of blacks get angry that a store would watch them closely for fear that they're stealing. I've had that same look, and my guess is the stores look at a lot of people based on a type of person that might be liable to steal. What of it? THey don't know us, they are simply trying to protect their stuff.
Rev.: You should be angry that you supported Obama because he is black and Democratic poverty pimps thru the years to make your community worse. You should be angry and ashamed of yourself.
The Reverend won't feel any better about things if he reads this thread. Of the many thing to comment on, I will limit myself to three.
One - What if the basic approach of blue states DOES foster more systemic racism? The coddling of young people who should be straightened out, the guilty presumptions of the liberals, etc. What are you progressive Madisonians gonna do about that? Maybe the Reverend should visit some communities in the south and compare notes with the local pastors.
Two - The last people I would ask to consider faith-based solutions would be a pack of progressives. The Reverend should try this out on a conservative organization. He would probably get a lot more traction.
Three - As a conservative, I get tired of the presumption that I must be racist. The people doing it are the people who most hate being called racist. That is a dirty little hypocrisy you got going there.
None of this will get any better until white people stop forcing young black men to commit crimes.
It leaves a smile on one's face. Turds, the lot.
Maybe the reverend would benefit from this video.
"Racism is real. It's not about burning a cross in somebody's yard. It's about being shunned; about having social engagement that is forced rather than natural. To Black people, racism is like a loud social tinnitus that spoils the joy of living."
When violence in the black community is shunned, whites will spend more time with blacks in casual encounters.
When I was 18, my buddy and I spent most Friday nights in an otherwise all black bar in Chicago. We would play bumper pool for beers with the guys in there. We were very good at bumper pool and rarely lost. In spite of usually losing, the black men in that bar all wanted to play us and we would sometimes spend an entire evening without buying a beer.
We never felt threatened and we were all drinking. That was 1956 and I understand what the Duck Dynasty guy was saying.
Control the violence, that mostly harms blacks, and the profiling will stop.
To Black people, racism is like a loud social tinnitus that spoils the joy of living.
I suspect that the aptness of this metaphor was unintentional.
Reading the comment thread I finally realized what "White Privilege" is.
White Privilege = the belief that whites get to lecture blacks about what's good for black Americans. Because we're so white, I guess.
I kept looking in the article for Rev. Gee to tell me what "systems" need to be changed to reduce the rate of incarceration of black men or to improve the academic performance of black students, but I must have missed it.
You need to stick with it all the way to the end: he wants the city to funnel patronage money to him and his church, on the Detroit model.
You can't fix stupid.
Delayed integration. The civil rights movement should have never incorporated. They should have never mixed assimilation and political activism. The "minorities" need to reassess the value offered by their Democrat-appointed leaders. They have been responsible for the preservation and progress of generational prejudice.
"White Privilege = the belief that whites get to lecture blacks about what's good for black Americans. Because we're so white, I guess."
So what do you call the belief that blacks get to lecture whites about what is good for black Americans? Because they're so black, I guess?
Jupiter:
Apparently, we are being advised to judge people by the color of their skin, not the content of their character. This is poorly considered advice. I would reject it with prejudice.
rcocean wrote:
Reading the comment thread I finally realized what "White Privilege" is.
White Privilege = the belief that whites get to lecture blacks about what's good for black Americans. Because we're so white, I guess.
Should blacks get to lecture whites about how bad and racist this country is? Is that "black priviledge"
Also, what if we lecture black culture not about what is good for them as blacks, but what is good for them as individuals in society?
Because the idea of embracing thug culture being a bad thing is a cultural argument more than a racial one.I would objectively argue that, whatever your race, if you embrace thug culture and devalue education as is happening in the black community now, you'll get a result much like what is occuring in the black community now.
"Apparently, we are being advised to judge people by the color of their skin, not the content of their character. This is poorly considered advice. I would reject it with prejudice."
What if there is a strong correlation? They don't put you in prison for jaywalking.
She added, "If you don't mind, I must tell you that I am so glad that you are not some angry black man!"
Good lord, what an insulting thing to say in the first place!
If we have any hope of making things better, we all need to stop thinking of these issues as Black community problems and see them as America's problems. We all should be angry that the enforcement of our laws is not fair. We all should be angry that so many of America's kids are not doing well academically and so many young people are unemployed. We have more people incarcerated in prisons than any other country in the world. American Exceptionalism, indeed. And we have the gall to go around telling other countries how to live!
" We all should be angry that so many of America's kids are not doing well academically and so many young people are unemployed. We have more people incarcerated in prisons than any other country in the world. American Exceptionalism, indeed. And we have the gall to go around telling other countries how to live! "
Here is the left's problem. "Not doing well academically"? Teachers unions anyone ?
"Unemployed"
Obama's America anyone ?
"more people incarcerated"
How about the people who commit crime ?
California is about the find out when you release a lot of people from prison.
I'm glad I live in Orange County.
DeBlasio is trying the same experiment in NYC.
Let's see how it goes.
"“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps... then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.”
― Jesse Jackson
Excuses, excuses, excuses. What a steaming pile of mush!
I am truly tired of the "isms" that get flung around so easily. If there is a big problem with racism in Madison suggest five solid actions that can be taken to improve it then push to get those in the works. If criminal behavior by blacks is causing incarceration issues then do something about the criminal behavior.
I love the ego-feeding review of his education, how well connected he is and how he is oh sooo angry. If this is the type of activist that Madison's black community supports then it's no wonder that nothing is getting done. Hogwash!
@Paul Zrimsek (1:56 pm), thanks for figuring out what Rev. Gee really meant about structural changes. I just missed that entirely.
@Scott (11:42 am), you may be surprised to learn that you don't have to be "invited" to attend a church. If you want to go to a Black church, find out when the services are, and walk in. I'm an Episcopalian (you know what WE'RE like!) so it's been a culture shock for me when I've gone to a Black church, but also very powerful.
But in case there are any Blacks on this thread (you've been pretty quiet), here's a little word of advice: You may feel that you'd like to attend a White church service, but are afraid that you'll be mistreated. Don't worry about that. You'll be welcomed with open arms, but if you're not careful you'll find yourself drafted to serve on the vestry, board of deacons, or whatever they call the lay leadership in that denomination. White churches are so hungry for Black members that, if you don't want to serve, I suggest that you don't even walk near the White church.
Was it just me, or did I miss the Rev. Gee fail to mention Christ or God in the interview? Interesting that a pastor would not see the faith as the answer.
Trey
As I said, I agree with the reverend.
I also agree that part of the problem is acceptance of thug culture by the community.
But where does that thug culture come from? Partly from the hopelessness of the employment situation for blacks in Madison. Partly from the crappy education system that blacks are in in Madison. Partly from the poverty (see employment)
Madison/Dane County seem much worse than the US on average. Look at black arrest rates. Are Madison blacks really that much more lawless than blacks in the rest of the US? Or are the police that much stricter? Or do they really arrest blacks for things whites would go free for?
The numbers are the numbers and they show Madison to be racist.
Someone else mentioned that progressives seem, as a group, to be more racist than most. I think it is because they care(tm) so much about racism. They care so much about it that they don't see that they need to actually DO anything.
Perhaps blacks would do better in a community where the whites just don't give a shit about racism.
Another thought that occurred to me earlier today is that perhaps progressives don't want to do anything about racism because if they did something, they would lose the opportunity to have something to care about. (Not sure that makes sense yet. Gotta think on it some more)
John Henry
Someone suggested visiting black churches and I agree that this would be eye opening. I disagree that you should angle for an invitation. It's a church, with few exceptions all you need do is find out what time the services are and show up.
It will be educational for all. Stay and chat with the pastor after.
Sort of related:
I was in Memphis working in the summer of 2006 and had Sunday free so was wandering around downtown. I stumbled on a concert in a park. Some Christian radio station had gotten the choirs from all the black churches together for a battle of the choirs.
You may think of choirs as what you ahve seen in the Episcopal, Catholic, Lutheran or other churches.
Think more like an amped up version of James Brown's church choir in The Blues Brothers.
Best concert I have ever been to. I did not see any trampolines like the movie but there were plenty of people dancing around.
If I lived in an area like that I would have been going to one or another of those churches every Sunday. Partly for the full-on, hard-core gospel but also for the music.
John Henry
TMink said..."Was it just me, or did I miss the Rev. Gee fail to mention Christ or God in the interview? Interesting that a pastor would not see the faith as the answer."
You missed these mentions:
"I challenge the broader community and governmental leaders to check the history books to see that there has never been a successful empowerment effort for African-Americans that didn't find its roots in the African-American faith community and spirituality."
and
"I am not successful because I'm unique or because there were no systemic barriers. I succeeded because as a kid I was given wonderful tools from God, family and a concerned and empowering Madison community to navigate the rough waters of systemic racism?"
John wrote:
But where does that thug culture come from? Partly from the hopelessness of the employment situation for blacks in Madison. Partly from the crappy education system that blacks are in in Madison. Partly from the poverty (see employment)
And those are where you can blame the politicians. But we all know that even if there's a crappy education system that you can still learn. In fact, you still need to learn, even if the system sucks, becuase your choices will dictate where your life goes.
Is the system responsible for people dropping out of high school or are people responsible for dropping out of high school?
John wrote:
Madison/Dane County seem much worse than the US on average. Look at black arrest rates. Are Madison blacks really that much more lawless than blacks in the rest of the US? Or are the police that much stricter? Or do they really arrest blacks for things whites would go free for?
The numbers are the numbers and they show Madison to be racist.
They show no such thing. You're confusing correlation with causation.
Why are there more arrests? Maybe the areas targeted have more criminals, and the cops are more proactive. You can't say, simply because you notice a discrepency in the number of black arrests that it proves racism. Again, it's expecting that everything should magically balance out based on population percentages that is the issue. There is no such thing as equality of outcomes.
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