What was this all about? The woman is dead. Will we never know?
A young child was found in the car, the authorities said. It was not clear whether the woman was armed when the authorities fired on her.Here's what I thought when I heard about it: There's all this heated rhetoric around the shutdown. That's American politics, and we have freedom of speech. But there are always human beings out of balance. They hear what they hear and who knows how it sounds to them? It feels like a war or like existential desperation. We can't shut up just because there are people out there with distorted thinking, but let's contemplate what it takes for those of us who are sane to behave with good character.
“We have no information that this is related to terrorism or is anything other than an isolated incident,” Chief Dine said.
ADDED: To those in power, here's a word: demagoguery. Stop it. Let's see some maturity.
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58 comments:
Had she used a gun, the leftys would be screaming for more gun control. Instead, she used her car.
How about we try batshit crazy control? That looks to have better results.
Let's wait for the facts to be reported before sermonizing. From the report it isn't clear who was firing the shots. Or why she was running from the cops.
What happened to all the Democrat talk about civility? One can only assume both hypocrisy and an illusory sense of safety on the part of these tough talking political wimps believing that they are immune from being identified and confronted in public.
You are referring to Rush and Hannity, right?
We know our President isn't a Demagogue. He said the other day he's been bending over backwards to work with the GOP and he's a calm guy.
Must be the Republicans using words like "hostage" and "bombs strapped to their back" and "Terrorist"
Video of the car chase here.
Don't understand why the police didn't shoot to disable the car and stop her at that point. Or would that not have been possible?
The women was a pretty 34 yo black woman from Connecticut, a dental hygienist, obviously suffering mental problems. I guess the child in the back seat was hers.
One possibility, suicide by cop?
You know what's sad? I'm always relieved when I find out these incidents involve persons of color or are foreigners. I know all white people can't be indicted. At least not theoretically.
"You are referring to Rush and Hannity, right?"
I'm referring to everyone.
You're idea that only one side is the problem is childish. I am calling for maturity.
Are you not ashamed of you childish interpretation?
Those of us who are sane and mature have a justified aversion to people who do what you seem to be doing.
I will give you an opportunity to step back.
How about all the talk about the President being willing to negotiate with "our enemies", but not the Republicans? How about calling him "anti American, criminal", pondering and longing yet again, for impeachment, for the umpteenth time now. Not willing to accept the results of the election and reelection and the SC decision making the ACA the law of the land.
If she was a Republican, well, that elephant needed to be put down. If she was a Democrat, the reason was probably stress over what the Republicans did.
That's what it sounds like to me these days.
Not willing to accept the results of the election and reelection and the SC decision making the ACA the law of the land.
Pelosi and I believe POTUS himself have admitted that there many many aspects of ACA that may need changing. This means amending the law as written. SCOTUS ruled on the constitutionality of one aspect. The ACA is not immutable or immune to changes, nor is it subject to change and tweaking from one side only.
Obama and Reid rejected Congressional proposals to make minor changes, but even minor changes are a symbolic and horrific loss to them and therefore impermissible.
The hysterical Dems now shriek that Republicans want to shut down every aspect of government (see machine's emotional rant on the Sullivan thread).
Personally, I can't stand it anymore. Really can't. I consider myself a solid conservative and a die hard talk radio junkie, I can't take the shouting anymore. I don't see any grand bargain in the making. Obama has no interest, the republicans have no plan to get out of this without total surrender.
Inga I suppose you don't remember the Reagan Administration or even the more recent Bush Administration.
Spare us the law of the land nonsense, especially on a law professor's blog. Funny how to the left the constitution is a living breathing document but the ACA is supposed to be fixed in stone? The court said on first pass that its permissible as a tax. It didn't say its a constitutional right. If you really want to know what court believes the ACA is and every other entitlement program is look up Nestor. I'll make it easy for you. The court ruled what the Congress gives it can take. Ann if I am wrong please correct me.
The difficulty in ending demagoguery is the same as the difficulty in ending negative campaigning in general. They work. They are effective means of gaining power, and for most politicians, power is the one thing that matters.
Stopping it would require that most voters not be low-information voters. That most voters actually take time to study the issues, and escape their respective like-minded thought bubbles.
Stopping it would require more emphasis on wisdom and less on bragging about smarts.
Most likely her foot slipped and she hit a barricade, the cops got excited, and she panicked and took off, and then they really got excited.
She did all this with a one year old child in her car.
I wonder if it even occurred to her how dangerous this was. Hope the child has some relatives who can be loving parents, or has parents. Was this woman the child's parent?
Hagar said...
Most likely her foot slipped and she hit a barricade, the cops got excited, and she panicked and took off, and then they really got excited.
For all we know at this point it could be true. The whole thing may have been a huge overreaction.
Comment moderation is gone.
Freder is back.
Coincidence?
Welcome back, Freder.
Lydia said...
Video of the car chase here.
Don't understand why the police didn't shoot to disable the car and stop her at that point. Or would that not have been possible?
I think when someone has tried to ram the White House the police use the method most likely to stop the attacker, not the least violent.
Consider the car bomb.
So, the Capitol police shot this woman for DWB?
Did you watch the video I linked to above?
There were several cops surrounding the car, with their guns drawn, but they just let her zoom away.
Weird.
Consider it a retroactive government provided abortion.
No problem.
Iraq checkpoints brought to America.
The cops may have acted stupidly.
For a year and a half the MSM has been hollering about open season on young blacks. It is not unreasonable that she would panic at seeing cops with guns drawn and pointing at her.
maturity....in this place?
Ann's quote was "To those in power..."
I would not place Hannity or Rush in the same level as Obama, Reid, etc. Yet it is Obama and Reid deliberately stoking the fires.
She was probably gunning for some Anarchists. She heard they were in the Capitol.
"Not willing to accept the results of the election and reelection and the SC decision making the ACA the law of the land."
Inga, does that make Obama a terrorist because he illegally exempted the large employers ?
My son used that "Law of the Land" thing with me and reminded me that the Supremes had upheld the law and therefore we need to just accept it.
I reminded him about the Dred Scott decision and he quieted down.
The Keystone DC Cops must have had a great time, shutting down the city, murdering a civilian, and generally proving to the rest of us who is boss.
What happens if it turns out the baby is OB's love child and she's a jilted lover? Would that be enough for the koolaid drinkers to believe that he's not The One?
"It's Trench Warfare" is the front page headline in today's very librul Philly Inquirer to describe the lack of progress on ending the fed govt shutdown.
I wonder if the headline writer even knows what trench warfare means?
@AJ: I prefer trenchant warfare to the mudslinging, gasses, and booby traps of the real thing.
Kelly said...
Personally, I can't stand it anymore. Really can't. I consider myself a solid conservative and a die hard talk radio junkie, I can't take the shouting anymore. I don't see any grand bargain in the making. Obama has no interest, the republicans have no plan to get out of this without total surrender
=================
There is a way.
We just admit we are in over our heads and invite Comrade Putin to take charge and sort US domestic things out.
Give Vlad a year.
It would be interesting to see which oligarchs had to return their loot to the people, which ones got frogmarched off to jail of all the Titans and Hero Jobs Creators that paid no price back in 2008-2009.
Or we let an American military junta take over, burn the existing Constitution, and create one that works in modern times.
To my dismay I thought also that a person may have acted on the incitement from the vitrolic rhetoric. I was equally divided whether it was a progressive or a conservative. . Then when I heard she hit barricade and took off I thought maybe a accident and she had drugs on her and ran from the police..
Then I saw the video , she was out of control and police were correct to shoot to kill. Thankfully the child was unharmed.
The problem is that demagogery works, especially with those whose reasoning skills are limited. We asked for this kind of society when we tossed our social norms, characterized judging bad behavior as worse than the bad behavior itself, allowed a whole bit of society to use "motherfucker" as noun, verb and adjective without the slightest objection, hired an obvious incompetent to lead us and permitted a government to educate a population so stupid as to think the inability to buy insurance on a poorly coded website is the same as actually buying a product with a glitch. We have tipped. It is too late. Read the Stoics. Turn off the television. Invent the mental villa at Tusculum and take to it. Love your family. Tend your garden and your health.
The problem is that demagogery works, especially with those whose reasoning skills are limited. We asked for this kind of society when we tossed our social norms, characterized judging bad behavior as worse than the bad behavior itself, allowed a whole bit of society to use "motherfucker" as noun, verb and adjective without the slightest objection, hired an obvious incompetent to lead us and permitted a government to educate a population so stupid as to think the inability to buy insurance on a poorly coded website is the same as actually buying a product with a glitch. We have tipped. It is too late. Read the Stoics. Turn off the television. Invent the mental villa at Tusculum and take to it. Love your family. Tend your garden and your health.
@Inga
You are always countering conservatives on the subject of inflammatory rhetoric by pointing out how our side does it too, while never acknowledging that your side is a lot more adept at it.
Inga: "Not willing to accept the results of the election and reelection and the SC decision making the ACA the law of the land."
After the ACA was passed, the grassroots threw out their Congressmen and Congresswomen who had voted for it. It was a historic Republican blowout across the entire country. It was epic.
There was a tiny window of time when Congress passed the ACA, but once the people could get to them they threw them out. It would never pass today.
We are a Representative Republic, and the little people in their (albeit gerrymandered) districts have these things called rights. It's in Federalist #10. This is why we have an impasse. And it's perfectly legitimate and perfectly American to have this problem. I think it's just what the Framers intended. I don't think they would have actually liked the idea of our Senate being voted for in a popular way, perhaps. I really don't like the fact that our Senate and to a certain extent our Governors are elected by money out of state. Right now in Virginia we're being bombarded by money from California and everywhere else in our gubernatorial election. At some point states will need to fix this problem.
But I digress.
I believe our House of Representatives is absolutely the closest thing to the people's will, and these Reps MUST believe that their constituents don't want Obamacare.
I totally take issue with the idea that the voters who voted against Romney had a clue about what was going to be required of them with the ACA.
oh good lord, spare me the "pox on both houses"
it is totally disingenuous.
From Debbie WS to SanFranNan to Reid to Pfeiffer to Obama himself it has been personal and slanderous rhetoric UNMATCHED by any politician of equal stature in the GOP.
Damnation, this is the passive-aggressive crap of an abuser spouse. Oh yes dear, I've humiliated you, I've called you the most hateful names in public, held you up to undeserved ridicule, but now if you don't totally cooperate with me it is YOUR FAULT for not kissing and making up!
feh
Inga: "Not willing to accept the results of the election and reelection and the SC decision making the ACA the law of the land."
:::cough::: Dred Scott :::cough:::
Terribly inconvenient that Constitution, eh?
Harriet@10:43PM: Brava!
Nice ride for a dental hygienist.
Demagoguery huh?
One thing I notice when that term gets thrown out - it's only demagoguery when the other guy does it.
And usually, that term gets invoked by angry losers when that other guy is right.
My thought, on seeing the first news reports, was, "What a bunch of cowards!"
You have one car involved in a collision with a barricade, then racing off and pursued by cops, and the whole city goes on shut-down, with members of Congress rushed to "safety" in their respective bunkers or panic rooms.
I guess our intrepid Congressmen and police forces really do believe our own propaganda about terrorism being an existential threat to us. If they overreact in this manner and degree for one incident like this, we can only tremble as we imagine their reaction to actual mass unrest by the citizens of this country. (This also explains why every hamlet and townlet in the land has its own SWAT team and military weaponry. They're afeared of us.)
As I say: cowards. Cowards, knaves, and imbeciles.
Sheesh!
@Robert Cook -
Knave(s) is a great word, and doesn't get used often enough these days. Cad and bounder, too
My high school history teacher once was teaching on the US founding and was quoting Jefferson. But he kept saying Jefferson called the founders
"an assembly of demagogues"
I think one or two of us, getting that he thought Jefferson's quote was not intended pejoratively asked if he meant "demigods"
He just repeated himself.
I later transferred to a different history teacher.
Demagoguery works for certain groups; talk radio, the political left, the Twitterverse, etc. Why does it work? Because, on the left, there are a lot of angry people who rose to prominence at places like the Daily Kos. When you have the Journolist where you can have murder fantasies about the hate target of the day, it makes it easy to try and turn the right into a bogeyman.
That same anger has been festering on the right; we've had more moderate leaders than Reid, Pelosi and Obama to keep it tamped down. We had Romney/McCain/Bush as our party leader/nominee recently. Things weren't as bad when Kerry/Gore were the nominees/face of the Democrats, because they may be left politicians, but they weren't crass.
The Graysons and Reids of the left however won the internal political squabbling, much like the more noisy elements on the right have been trying to push through. And, frankly, I can't keep arguing with them. You know why? The left demonizes people on the right to the point where, for the average voter, there's no difference between Ann Coulter and Mitt Romney in their minds.
Demagoguery works, and elements on both sides tried to keep it to a minimum. But, the left WON with it. Remember the full-court hate against Bush and Palin? It worked. They won. My political cohort on the right points to that and tells me I'm -wrong- to try to stay moderate.
And, frankly, while I won't engage in the same sort of nonsense, they're right. If the right wants to win, being nice, moderate, tolerant, and respectful hasn't worked. So, naturally, they're going to try what they see HAS worked for the left.
Which is sad, because I like peaceful dialogue instead of pointless arguing. But, you get more of the behavior you incentivize.
[This is not to say that the left is inherently more volatile/rude/what-have-you. The political reality is that the situation was perfect to happen on the left before the right; they lost after Clinton, right before the Internet really picked up to enable the sort of shelling/in-grouping that is required for this to work. Not only that, one of their main constituencies (the young) are more prone to that in-grouping/otherizing of people, compared to the more conservative groups. Had the left been in ascendance then, it very easily could have been the right that jumped down the slippery slope, much as they're getting ready to now.]
"You are referring to Rush and Hannity, right?
I'm referring to everyone."
So everyone in power is guilty of demagoguery and therefore somehow responsible for this event? That's crazier than Miriam Carey.
Actually, it is very much what I was told is called the Davies J curve theory of revolutions. Revolts don't happen when people are at their lowest, because they CAN'T. They happen once a group either loses or gains something to realize what they're missing. In this case, these political revolutions on the left/right are happening due to what is happening in D.C.; the left lost power after Clinton, the right lost power after Bush. A perfect catalyst for a revolutionary new approach to politics.
We're now in what Crane Briton might call the reign of terror. Luckily, we're civilized and not chopping off heads, just political ones [with the retiring/voting out of incumbents of both parties.]
Does anybody dispute that EVERYBODY demagogues? The WH refers to politicAl opponents as terrorists disturbingly frequently. Democrats in Congress toss out anarchist and terrorist insults frequently and blame a grass routs movement for every problem out there.
Was Cruz wrong to call his opponents appeasers? Yeah. But can I fault him too much after Obama's and the other Democrats comments? No.
The only way to avoid it working is to stop idiots from voting. Any ideas?
1. Term limits.
2. Nullify 17th Amendment.
3. Make property ownership a requirement - or at least paying taxes - or at least having a job.
4. Take a second long hard look at the relationship between the 10th and 14th amendments.
5. Raise up a king from among the people.
6. Move to Monaco.
(Not all of these have equal validity, but they all have potential.)
Read the Headline...
She did not have a gun, yet she "gunned the vehicle" That car was weaponized. Her foot became the trigger finger.
While not obligatory it would have been a nice touch if officer friendly and his buddies had made an attempt to disable the vehicle, before disabling the driver.
But then it was a gun. almost.
Note to self: The timeline for survival when going crazy is a lot shorter if you're in the capital.
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