Althouse: When "progressive pop culture people" make fun of a woman for being old...

September 14, 2013

When "progressive pop culture people" make fun of a woman for being old...

... and the woman is Sarah Silverman, who's 42, Sarah has something to say about it:

32 comments:

LightenUpFrancis said...: "I'm hurt but I'd die defending somebody's rights to say anything."

I hate it when folks go on a tear on a comment that they disliked - humorous, necessary, whatever - but then cut off their line of thought with one of those. He was explaining that he thought comments like that were a part of her world (which is? comedy? entertainment?), and I was interested in hearing her response to that. Instead she kills it with that BS olive branch.; 9/14/13, 1:35 PM
Michael said...: I came here to see how other people were reacting to this post.

Then I realized if you had decided to make your "no comments" experiment permanent, there would be no point in doing that.

And that would be a loss.; 9/14/13, 1:36 PM
Oso Negro said...: 42 doesn't seem old to me.; 9/14/13, 2:05 PM
Anonymous said...: Invisible suttee. Very true that women are systematically shamed into hiding under a rock (or motherhood, soccer momdom and other acceptable roles after whatever age, which means only the most aggressive, impervious (i.e. "unfeminine") types tend to stay out there and further perpetuate the stereotype.

The most openly misogynistic site I've happened across recently is actually a gay site (by definition "progressive") which is amusing in all other ways. Gay men are extremely sensitive and cruel to each other about their own ages/sexual desirability and it gets projected onto women. They are also less guarded than straight guys in letting their bitchy, anti-woman feelings out there because it's not going to upset their relationships.

Not to get too deep here, but symbolically, women seem to carry the burden of "fun time being over", forcing guys to grow up, have kids, face death, etc. Projection, of course. And realistically, it's family that makes age and death easier.; 9/14/13, 2:12 PM
Moose said...: Sarah Silverman is *just* as funny as other male comedians, like Jon Stewart.

Which is to say not at all...; 9/14/13, 2:20 PM
wildswan said...: People are still young at an age when they used to be middle-aged; they are middle-aged when they used to be old; and they're old when they used to be dead. This change isn't assimilated yet into the culture. I have to admit that I'm frequently critical of young people for not having "started" their lives, for being dependent or directionless at 28 for example. But many people are still being educated at that age. And they (who so very much wish to help out) are startled and alarmed by signs of independence and by travel to harsh environments when one is over 60.; 9/14/13, 2:25 PM
Big Mike said...: I stopped at the 4:40 mark because she sounds like she's whining over people making fun of her the way she makes fun of everybody else. (If she gets funny later in the clip, somebody please let me know.)

Silverman should just go back to schtupping Matt Damon.; 9/14/13, 2:34 PM
Biff said...: I accept that much of it is more acutely directed at women, but ageism is universal. I'm in my 40s, and several times I've been in a room when a 20-something is ranting about the uselessness of "old guys," realizes that I'm there and feels the need to say to me, "...but I don't mean you!" (I work in science and technology, with a dollop of strategy and communications thrown in.); 9/14/13, 3:07 PM
The Godfather said...: I'm only 70, but when I get old I'll probably be as sensitive about it as Sarah.; 9/14/13, 4:09 PM
Carol said...: The best part was at the end..my parent was an aging star-in-hiding most my life and yeah, I really didn't know what was supposed to happen after age 21. She spoke of aging gracefully, but that requires that you stop seeing yourself as a sex object and play a different role, "Grandma" for example.; 9/14/13, 4:11 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: It's weird when I see people wearing shirts of the exact same textile pattern I owned decades ago like the pattern is recycled commercially...

ChipA; 9/14/13, 4:18 PM
TMink said...: Women are only shamed about their age by advertisements, movies, and entertainment that use male attraction to sell products.

Trey; 9/14/13, 4:32 PM
Illuninati said...: Silverman is correct. Jokes are not always innocent. They can be cruel. Progressives/liberals are master at the art of destructive humor/mockery. Sara Palin was the victim of this type of malicious smear "humor" in which lies about her were repeated so often that people actually believe them. Leftist women often cloak their misandry in humor which degrades men. Adult men can shrug off the "jokes" but this type of "humor" can be extremely destructive to young men or boys.; 9/14/13, 4:57 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Note that Silverman is not really sensitive about it herself, for herself. She's making a larger critique about the effect of that kind of joking about age -- that if you're 42, you ought to be dead by now -- on girls and very young women.; 9/14/13, 5:07 PM
Ann Althouse said...: It's so absurd not to value the years ahead, to think that life is basically over when you are 40 or 50 or 60. These are probably the most interesting and enjoyable years of your life (especially if you stay healthy).

We create a culture in which young people waste time fearing those years, which is one of the things that makes youth less enjoyable.

I find that sad.; 9/14/13, 5:13 PM
Carnifex said...: Even as a young man I preferred a more "experienced" woman. (Don't call me Oedipus!) If you want to make fun of a more mature woman, more loss for you. The other day at the store a lady in her 60
s was bent over looking at something on the lower shelf. Barbaric me looked and thought "mmmmm...not bad"

Unfortunately for Silverman, she is a viscious harridan that I couldn't look at with any appreciation at all.; 9/14/13, 5:18 PM
Anonymous said...: I haven't Silverman for years, probably the Monk tv show was the last time. The fact is she has not aged well. A little long in the tooth.; 9/14/13, 5:19 PM
Col. Milquetoast said...: Note that Silverman is not really sensitive about it herself, for herself. She's making a larger critique about the effect of that kind of joking about age -- that if you're 42, you ought to be dead by now -- on girls and very young women.

Althouse falls for the "It's for the children" line?

I haven't watched the entire thing. Does she mention how she has taken advantage of her sex appeal while she has it in ways that people like Jon Lovitz and Jim Norton probably can't even imagine.; 9/14/13, 5:25 PM
David said...: And men do not become the butt of jokes when they get to 40? Well, maybe not if they are in Silverman's world, but I recall lots of jokes as my male friends and I passed various age milestones.

It's part of life, and so are the jokes. Deal with it.; 9/14/13, 5:35 PM
CatherineM said...: I agree with Ann Silverman wasn't taking it personally, she has talked about the botox, the surgery and all of the other cosmetology women, especially women with money and now some men, to give the illusion of being younger. They don't look young, they look weird and she wonders what effect that is having on women now.

On that dais, she wasn't the oldest person, but she was the one made fun of for her age.; 9/14/13, 5:39 PM
CatherineM said...: I am 43 and my friend, 47, told me I am to old to put my hair in a pony tail.; 9/14/13, 5:40 PM
Bill R said...: What is she complaining about She's really hot for an old lady.; 9/14/13, 6:12 PM
Col. Milquetoast said...: "as soon as a woman gets to an age where she has opinions and she is vital and she is strong then she is systematically shamed into hiding under a rock"

She doesn't seem to elaborate on details of this vast progressive pop culture conspiracy. She is sure all those guys were really, truly, deeply interested in her opinion when asking her to come up to his place and look at his etchings but as her sexual appeal fades it must be a conspiracy that leads fewer guys to find an excuse to chat with her. She should wear a Jon Lovitz suit for a day.

BTW, this is her response to being called old by a gay guy complaining that she uses gay as an insult. She ignored the gay guy and painted herself as the victim with a masterful change of subject.; 9/14/13, 6:25 PM
Austin said...: Silverman is a foul grotesque hypocrite. She once had a skit where she sang to a group of seniors at a senior home. The lyrics were, literally and truthfully, "you're gonna die soon, you're gonna die soon". And she now complains about her own treatment? What a slime.; 9/14/13, 6:59 PM
Anonymous said...: What bugs me is when I get called an old hag on some blog by some old coot, who is older than I am.; 9/14/13, 7:07 PM
ALP said...: Note that Silverman is not really sensitive about it herself, for herself.
********
Very important. I am a huge fan of Sarah's; her book "Bedwetter" details how she struggled with bed wetting until she was in her early teens. By the time she began her stand up comedy career, she had developed such a thick skin as a result of the bed wetting issue, she found performing in front of a crowd child's play. Rarely does she feel any fear or anxiety on stage - so I'd be really surprised if she took these comments to heart personally.; 9/14/13, 7:52 PM
Saint Croix said...: She's complaining about a celebrity roast. It's a lot of aggressive, mean humor (some of it coming from Sarah Silverman). There are Jew jokes, fat jokes, gay jokes, whore jokes. It's pretty funny. But of course you could call the PC police on any of that shit.

Roast Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5; 9/14/13, 9:14 PM
Big Mike said...: MNote that Silverman is not really sensitive about it herself, for herself.

I think you're mistaken, Professor.

She's making a larger critique about the effect of that kind of joking about age -- that if you're 42, you ought to be dead by now -- on girls and very young women.

Many of Silverman's jokes -- I'm tempted to say all of them -- have a stinger inside. I don't know why we should be so solicitous of girls and very young women to the exclusion of boys and young men, for instance.; 9/14/13, 9:22 PM
William said...: A lot of Silverman's material is funny because it's based on a cute, sweet girl making obscene and/or malicious observations. She'll have to adjust her act as she gets older. These are problems that Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers didn't have to face........I was never a gifted athlete, but I really did enjoy sports. Except for competitive napping I've given up most of them. They did give quite a lot of savor to life, and I miss them. It must be really tough on guys who were truly athletic. I suppose it's the same kind of loss a professionally beautiful woman must feel when she loses her fast ball. Well, life has other consolations, and a great many people never had any glory days at all.; 9/14/13, 9:54 PM
Jeff with one 'f' said...: The idea of Boomers, of all people, lamenting the contemporary worship of youth is hilarious. No offense, but none of you have a leg to stand on.; 9/14/13, 10:28 PM
veni vidi vici said...: God, she's super annoying. And playing the woman card? Give it a rest or get out the game, girl. Lameness tag required.; 9/14/13, 10:29 PM
Tarrou said...: I agree with her partially, about the tragedy of the perpetual struggle to stay young. It's sad that our culture values youth more than age and experience, and that this induces people to expend so much effort making themselves ridiculous.

At the same time, I know that it is all wrapped up in an argument that is used to indict all men for the "patriarchy" or some such idiocy, ignorant of human biology and social necessity. But fair is fair, and the denigration of age and the subsequent failure of generations to age gracefully, is a problem.; 9/15/13, 7:30 AM