Lawyers for the [Trayvon] Martin family now say the case is not about racial profiling or race.... Then why did Benjamin Crump say race was "the elephant in the room." Racial injustice was the core of their argument. It was always about race to them. Race was what they used to transform this local shooting into a case of national importance.Meanwhile, at Instapundit:
IT’S REALLY BEGINNING TO LOOK AS IF CHARGES NEVER SHOULD HAVE BEEN BROUGHT HERE: Neighbor, cop back George Zimmerman’s account of fight with Trayvon Martin.Watching much of the trial these last 3 days, I've come to believe that the prosecution is conducting a theatrical performance in racial reconciliation. It wasn't politically easy to decline to prosecute Zimmerman, even though the evidence showed he could not be convicted, so this prosecution was mounted to demonstrate to the public that Zimmerman should not be convicted. I'm not condoning this use of the power to prosecute. I'm simply observing what is happening. I think the trial is theater, and if it's done right — with people like Crump contributing what they can — the people who got stirred up in Act I can experience catharsis.
Remember Act I? It had that wonderful cameo performance from President Obama:
He told us this was "a tragedy." Catharsis "is a metaphor originally used by Aristotle in the Poetics to describe the effects of tragedy on the spectator":
In his works prior to Poetics, Aristotle had used the term catharsis purely in its medical sense (usually referring to the evacuation of the katamenia — the menstrual fluid or other reproductive material). Here, however, he employs it as a medical metaphor. F. L. Lucas maintains, therefore, that purification and cleansing are not proper translations for catharsis; that it should rather be rendered as purgation. "It is the human soul that is purged of its excessive passions."...In the end, one must hope, we will come into balance.
"In real life," [one scholar] explained, "men are sometimes too much addicted to pity or fear, sometimes too little; tragedy brings them back to a virtuous and happy mean." Tragedy is then a corrective; through watching tragedy, the audience learns how to feel these emotions at proper levels."
Posts
269 comments:
1 – 200 of 269 Newer› Newest»Our President is a race hustler. Smoother than most but ready to spot an opening however thoughtlessly and prematurely.
I for one, look forward to the Zimmerman 'wrongful prosecution' lawsuit.
Way too intellectual.
Trayvon Martin's mother may mourn him, but, if so, she is the only one.
The lawyer and his father is trying to lay the groundwork for a civil suit for damages against the City of Sanborn.
Everybody else have got their own agenda to push.
I think the trial is theater...
Because it is theater. A sham. A joke. A reflection of our fallen broken ridiculous society.
Trevon looks like Obama's son. That's why we are here.
Theater. The ongoing theater of the progressive Chris 'you're all racists' Matthew's fascist love affair.
Everything, not some things, everything, the "justice for Trayvon" crowd said about this case has been shown to be a lie.
The President is a race-hustling asshole.
And any kind of "reconciliation" is not a part of anyone's agenda.
US PMS. Now we're all on the rag.
Charges weren't filed until all the right people screamed "race", IIRC.
So he's saying that blacks are not too bright.
As a Floridian I can tell you the State isn't that analytical. The trial is a show trial, a racial CYA on the part of the State and the State is hoping for a conviction in order to avoid race riots. I can't read minds so I don't know what the jurors are thinking but it wouldn't surprise me if they are concerned about triggering a race riot or are fearful of personal consequences of an acquittal. In the meantime lets see if the forensic evidence corroborates Zimmerman's account of what happened or not. If not, screw him.
Everyone who pushed this prosecution should be sued and foreverbarred from public work. All the way up to our worthless President.
Zimmerman is supposed to be acquitted. That way, we can gin up some outrage, maybe a little rioting (not too much of course). Get the base excited for 2014.
In the end, one must hope, we will come into balance.
Fat chance.
Too late.
So, the country needs to have its racial "tubes cleaned" every once in a while?
And yes, if Obama had a daughter she would read and write cursive like Ms. Jeantel
"One must hope" the State of Florida doesn't get burned to the ground by all the folks who can'read ......... cursive.
If the prosecution is trying to lose this case it will make the situation much worse! Black people do not like to be "played" like that! They have convinced themselves that Z should be executed!
Catharsis will not be the result!
Is this another trick question?
If the prosecution is trying to lose this case it will make the situation much worse! Black people do not like to be "played" like that! They have convinced themselves that Z should be executed!
Catharsis will not be the result!
Is this another trick question?
The state is following the path of least resistance. They didn't want the protests that would have followed dropping or not filing charges.
The problem is both sides will see the trial mainly in terms of winning and losing, and so unrest may be only deferred and possibly magnified.
I'd like to think the losers will not act like losers, but they probably can't help it and so deserve the humiliation the trial will bring.
Dear Professor Althouse,
I am looking forward to the conclusion of the trial, and what I expect (like you) will be a not guilty verdict.
At which point I will call the prosecution, and the entire Trayvon Martin racial grievance industry "losers." Because they will have lost. They will be losers. And I bet that the losers will not take it well.
Have a nice week.
I've come to believe that the prosecution is conducting a theatrical performance in racial reconciliation. It wasn't politically easy to decline to prosecute Zimmerman, even though the evidence showed he could not be convicted, so this prosecution was mounted to demonstrate to the public that Zimmerman should not be convicted.
If this is true, it's absolutely disgraceful.
If the authorities are convinced he is innocent, then they should not prosecute him. And President Obama, who made a national cause out of this, is also to blame for this state of affairs. HIs racial commentary did not help in the slightest.
Here are the death threats Zimmerman is getting on twitter. And some of those death threats ("Ima kill me a cracka'") are explicitly racist.
Maybe Zimmerman can be acquitted in cursive and avoid notice.
Watching all the "justice for Trayvon" people on twitter threaten to kill random white people if Zimmerman doesn't go to jail has been swell for our racial catharsis.
As I said before on an earlier thread, if what you say is true, Ann (and I think it is), then the state is playing a very dangerous game. The consequences of such a game can’t be predicted – especially by leftist jack-offs and the politicians who kowtow to them, because they notoriously ignore the reality of human nature. They cannot predict how jurors will react in such emotionally charged trials (or judges for that matter). They also can’t predict the reaction of the public to such a trial, no matter what the outcome. Furthermore, the state is torturing Zimmerman. It is acting fascistically. Also, is not the role of the state to allow us to experience catharsis or to bring us or the alleged victim's family closure. Finally, bringing this case sets a terrible precedent.
This cannot end well.
Right -- it's not about race...
Remember aridog's explanation by the left for us last year?
It's not about race at all.
(So bad that Rachel pulled the curtain aside for us... how ever else would we have guessed?)
Well said. The Courtroom is a community forum for a Greek drama where tragic events can be replayed for the public who then can go home chastened that life is complex and full of fatal character flaws found wherever hubristic men are found.
The Jury is a Greek Chorus, Zimmerman is the protagonist hero and Martin is the slain boy.
But it beats the alternative of crowds of cruel men roaming at night killing others they find like Bloody Kansas during the 1850s. (Clint Eastwood depicted the result of those days in the movie The Outlaw Josey Wales.)
When was the last time Al Sharpton got anything right?
it beats the alternative of crowds of cruel men roaming at night killing others they find like Bloody Kansas during the 1850s.
Tradguy has gone from farce to parody.
Saint Croix,
Watching a bunch of barely literate Twitter goons threatening to riot in a state (FL) that has issued over 1 million CCW permits is both comedic and sad.
Everyone can see how Obama got elected, right?
I mean, there is absolutely zero difference between the crass emotionalism that is wishing death on Zimmerman (and whites) and the idea that you have to vote for the unqualified black guy because...slavery and Jim Crow!
Jay said...
it beats the alternative of crowds of cruel men roaming at night killing others they find like Bloody Kansas during the 1850s.
Tradguy has gone from farce to parody
When the kid walks where is tradguy going to riot?
Trad Guy doesn't care if GZ walks, because he thinks this trial is fair.
Are whites allowed even the teeny weeniest cathartic moments? Go ask Paula Deen. Because that's what calling the Negro who attacked her a nigger was, a cathartic moment. Like you've just been scared out of your wits and injured and you blurt out "That nigger!" to your husband and BLAM you're done, finished, flattened. Because NO UGLY! The first rule of bien pensant Althouseland is NO UGLY! And that shit standard RULES this country. And don't you whine about it, LOSERS!!!
Show trials cannot be fair by their very nature.
In the end, one must hope, we will come into balance.
Gee I hope nobody locks me up in prison for a year just for a political show trial where I am supposed to be found innocent in order to appease the mob that was created by the authorities who got my skin color wrong.
That would kinda suck.
Professor Althouse, I understand that you would "not condone" the use of a prosecution like this to allow prosecutors to "avoid a politically difficult decsion" to NOT prosecute.
But that is something of an evasion.
The real question is whether you will CONDEMN such a prosecution.
Because I think it wil be scant consolation to George Zimmerman, to have played this role in the process of racial concililation.
Is anybody keeping track of how many years the Supreme Court said we have to go through this racial awareness shit?
"I don't know what the jurors are thinking but it wouldn't surprise me if they are concerned about triggering a race riot"
CubanBob, do they think like that up in Central Florida? I remember the riots in the 80's down here, but I thought that the rest of the state didn't tack that way so much.
Maybe I'm out of touch.
Gee I hope nobody locks me up in prison for a year just for a political show trial where I am supposed to be found innocent in order to appease the mob that was created by the authorities who got my skin color wrong.
That would kinda suck.
I wouldn't go around making movies about Islam if I was you either.
Don't worry. the Thug-in-chief will make sure there are riots. anything to distract from his own incompetence and his efforts to destroy this country.
If Florida race riot traditions are upheld after an acquittal then the riots will only occur and be confined to certain neighborhoods. After the fires are put out and the bodies burried the politicians will demand and provide funding to rebuild those affected neighborhoods. Someone has to pay for the rebuilding and it won't be the rioters, looters and race hustlers doing the paying.
".. I'm simply observing what is happening. I think the trial is theater, and if it's done right — with people like Crump contributing what they can — the people who got stirred up in Act I can experience catharsis..."
'Racial justice' is an industry.
Industries don't experience catharsis.
We have to sacrifice free speech for abortion--not to mention kick babies out of humanity--and now we have to give up due process for Racial Awareness Week?
Gee, it's almost like liberals have gotten away from the Constitution's text or something.
I just reread the Bill of Rights.
There is no right to catharsis or
closure.
I even looked in the penumbras. And even the umbras.
Show trials are not showy to be lost. Show trials are to convict the accused after certain procedures have been completed, the contents of which are immaterial. Zimmerman, sadly, will be convicted. He will get a lighter than desired sentence but you can be sure he is going to jail. This would be the result even if they had a high quality film justifying self defense. Because Zimmerman followed a black child in the dark night and killed him. That is the fact that will convict him. The women on the jury arent interested in having their days haunted by the fear of reprisal. They are not stupid. They will find him guilty then go on t v.
Zimmerman seems to be doing the nation an unpaid favor by your reasoning. We haven' yet heard from the police chief who is a defense witness.
This is tragic farce but that is what race has become in this country. American blacks are the chief victims.
Maybe they deserve Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I truth, I doubt anyone does.
Fascist is the correct word. Hitler had racial superiority theories. This is somewhat similar but twisted so strangely that no sense can be made of it.
Leftist whites are wallowing in superiority as they pity (is that the term?) that 300 pound illiterate from the other day.
Zimmerman will be acquitted, hen charged with civil rights violation by Holder. Just before the 2014 election.
I am watching the trial and Zimmerman looks amazed that he's even in there.
I'd be losing my mind.
-XC
I get it. They will put on this trial to show the ignorant race baiters, that there's no there, there.
It wasn't politically easy to decline to prosecute Zimmerman, even though the evidence showed he could not be convicted, so this prosecution was mounted to demonstrate to the public that Zimmerman should not be convicted. I'm not condoning this use of the power to prosecute. I'm simply observing what is happening. I think the trial is theater, and if it's done right — with people like Crump contributing what they can — the people who got stirred up in Act I can experience catharsis.
Meanwhile a guy's life is in the hands of a few women. Wow.. what a national teaching moment this is. More importantly, what will Obama learn from this?
Cubabob. Yes, and the store owners will be immigrant Indians or Koreans and they will decide to take their proceeds to another part of town. To earn the money to pay the taxes to rebuild the shitholes they left.
The racist black mobs incited by scum like Obama, Sharpton, and Jackson will have their World War GZ one way or the other. Be ready.
It's like another beer summit, and George Zimmerman's the guest of honor. Americans must suffer for their original sin, and go through many motions of misunderstanding.
Obama's model is the very similar to when he moved to Chicago and started working with the kids who often end up in jail, in gangs, fathers at 17 etc. He would eventually prove smooth and ambitious and white enough, there at the right time to get elected, and black enough by choice as well as skin color to clearly get the black vote and ride its waves of sentiment and reward it with patronage.
Obamacare, Gun Control, etc. can be seen in this light.
Obama also supported a reconciliation in Kenya. The outcome was a trial by fire led by his cousin.
Tangent: many possible motivations for pushing the trial, even if you didn't intend to win it. Imagine how intimidated the 1.2 million concealed carry folks are down here. For some quarters, that's doubleplusgood, no?
A trial is appropriate. The prosecution was originally short-circuited by Florida's bizarre SYG law. Zimmerman is quite clearly guilty of manslaughter and a manslaughter conviction is the appropriate outcome.
Most normal men placed in his situation (safely in his car, armed, on the phone to the police) would not have so completely botched subsequent events that they ended up killing an innocent unarmed teen. There are consequences for the kind of gross incompetence that results in a wrongful death. We still respect human life and the rule of law remains intact.
.
"It's not about racial profiling," Daryl Parks told reporters. "He was profiled (criminally). George Zimmerman profiled him."
That is news to, well, everyone.
AReasonableMan said...
The prosecution was originally short-circuited by Florida's bizarre SYG law.
Actually, it wasn't. There was a GJ that was being put together and then Corey took over and stopped all of that.
Oh, and 29 other states have this "bizarre SYG law"
You're a fucking idiot.
The state is putting on this show trial for our own good. We should be grateful to the state and the One we've been waiting for.
Most normal men placed in his situation (safely in his car, armed, on the phone to the police) would not have so completely botched subsequent events that they ended up killing an innocent unarmed teen
Considering you have absolutely no clue what happened, as each of your posts contain easily debunked lies, there is no utility in you saying Zimmerman "botched" anything.
Why do you keep offering up this silly bullshit?
Are you looking for Catharsis?
Is it too late for a beer summit?
And yes, this case was racial from the beginning:
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
Facts are fun, aren't they?
"The prosecution was originally short-circuited by Florida's bizarre SYG law. Zimmerman is quite clearly guilty of manslaughter and a manslaughter conviction is the appropriate outcome."
-- From what we've seen, no it isn't. If a woman is raped in a bad part of town that everyone told her not to go to, she cannot be tried for manslaughter when she tries to stop her rapist and kills him. "You were stupid, so you don't get to defend yourself" is not valid juris prudence.
Michael K said...
Zimmerman seems to be doing the nation an unpaid favor by your reasoning.
Zimmerman died for your racial sins.
Or was that Yankel Rosenbaum?
You also get the EPA, IRS, and DOJ run by people living in 1968 as well. The problems between the individual and the collective, political power and patronage, the wrong incentives etc are baked into the activist cake.
Obama had a tear in his eye at reelection because the message was sent that his activism and work in black communities and methods were vindicated.
You just better hope it's not you getting investigated by the IRS, or in Zimmerman's place in a tragic misunderstanding at the hands of a mob.
Just think, sometimes he probably plays the progs too. Useful, redistributive idiots
Now that I think about it, nothing will satisfy the race baiters. That's what they live for.
If there's going to be race riots, let's go. Let's battle for a year or two. Maybe more, if that's what it takes to settle the injustice.
And yes, I'm going to keep using that same example until A Reasonable Man explains why we can't blame the victim in the rape case, but we can blame the victim in Zimmerman's case.
Oh and:
Benjamin Crump, a lawyer representing the Martin family, said there was no doubt Martin was targeted because of his race.
“We honestly believe that Trayvon Martin is dead today because he was racially profiled,” Crump said. “Because of that, this escalated, and it led to an altercation where George Zimmerman … killed … a 17-year-old, unarmed teen who only had a bag of Skittles and an Arizona iced-tea can.”
Considering one of the first things the Martin family did was to sue the HOA for millions of dollars, it is hard to feel much empathy for them.
How could Zimmerman have racially profiled anyone when he was hesitant to confirm that Martin was black to the police?
I don't think it is so much the State of Florida as the local politics, viz. the mayor overruling his own police chief, the local D.A.'s office doing their own thing, etc.
The State is just stuck with it.
Althouse said:
"Watching much of the trial these last 3 days, I've come to believe that the prosecution is conducting a theatrical performance in racial reconciliation"
I'm sure your comment is tongue in cheek but it certainly does highlight the absurdity of race relations in our country. A court of law reduced to theater. How appropriate.
In a previous case of judicial theater, called the Rodney King trial, when the jury didn't decide the correct way, President Bush insisted that the police officers be retried. Perhaps Obama will follow Bush's example and ensure justice for his son, Trayvon, by having federal charges brought against Zimmerman.
Nothing substantive to support a Murder 2 charge has come about since this:
"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."
Charges should have never been filed.
"He told us this was 'a tragedy.'"
Leave it to Althouse to say strong reactions to killings are overblown.
Matthew Sablan: "a reasonable man" can't explain anything.
He's one step above tradguy, it is all nonsensical and self refuting drivel.
Hey, where the UnreasonableTroll on this?
He should be telling us how Zimmerman is guilty and we should just be discussing how heinous an armed vigilante Z was.
If Trayvon looked like Obama's son does Dee Dee look like his sons baby mama...geez I hope not
Your president wants to destroy the USA. The acquittal of Mr Z will lead to the next step on Obama's road. The web is full of threats already. The best of luck to you all.
This could actually be the correct use of the term tragedy from a literary standpoint.
The question is: Whose hubris is at fault? Martin's, for starting a fight he could have walked away from (Oedipus killing his father), the State's for pursuing power through illegitimate means (MacBeth), or Zimmerman's for reaching to be something he could never be and making some bad decisions (Willie Loman)?
That's ridiculous.
Occam's Razor. They initially thought Zimmermann was guilty, made quite a display of it, and were strongly encouraged by Obama, Sharpton, the black community, the left and the MSM. Now they are stuck. No way they can stop the trial - that would be even worse for them personally and politically - so they are forced to go through the motions.
The people pushing the trial don't want reconciliation anymore than people having sex do it to get pregnant. They just can't control themselves.
@ Hagar The lawyer and his father is trying to lay the groundwork for a civil suit for damages against the City of Sanborn.
The Martin family has already settled for a very large sum with the gated community (or HOA?)
The next step may involve the city, but if the investigation (which should come out in the defense) was well documented and fits within the legal expectations of a PD, that will be a harder case than the inevitable -- repeat -- inevitable and purposeful set up of Zimmerman for a civil wrongful death suit -- which could only occur (lawyers straighten me out here) if Zimmerman were charged with a crime. Which of course, to appease whoever, he was. And that is why.
To hell with "This is for 'Racial Reconciliation' crap. This does zero for "racial reconciliation." The goal is keep the brothers simmering so we can stir the pot the next time we need a paycheck and an election.
The payoff for the Martins, or so their lawyers (and they get a $weet cut) who are advising them are telling them will come regardless of the outcome of this obscene travesty and misuse of the law.
The people of the city of Sanborn should tell them all where to go when these lawsuits are filed, and send them packing with no settlement from anyone.
They have harmed the city and its residents irrespective of color or claimed racial preferences.
Reparations are not in order.
If certain lives have to be sacrificed at the altar of political theater, so be it. The state should destroy the lives of citizens in order to keep the peace while showing that those lives should not have been destroyed. Huh?
Why not simply worry about truth (I know that some here reject the very notion of the existence of truth, wishing instead to engage in infantile fantasy, losers), and act fairly and justly? That is not too much to demand from the state.
And it is not too much to demand, their having offered up as a victim one who they knew not to be guilty, that these prosecutors be disbarred and themselves tossed into jail for the most outrageous of civil rights violations.
Meanwhile, what kind of chilling effect has been imposed against people having the effrontery to defend themselves against deadly attacks? Message received -- you defend yourself at your own peril. Either you accept death at the hands of some thug or the state will try to throw your ass in prison. Even if you win at trial, still your life is destroyed. So just be forewarned - if you engage in self-defense, you are only f***ing yourself, so don't do it.
Many Americans wanted their race issue solved on the cheap, and far away from home. A great nation deserves great.....something. That white guilt got Obama a long ways...
You know Lefty ideologues and progressives are going to do what they do and spread the ideology. Most black folks will go along to get along, lay low for awhile even if they have doubts. Many white folks are not going to change all that much either.
How's our foreign policy? How's the economy? How's Organizing For Action?
What is coming out is that this black boy was just another thug up to no good and Zimmerman was right.
i take the president at his word. if he had a son, he'd have been a punk.
This sounds like attempted justification for voting for Obama.
I hope someone remembers to tell the jurors that the trial is not about race.
It is Best to Arrive Early to the Theater of Racial Reconciliation so that You Can See the Coming Attractions.
Until Obama intervened this was a Little Indie Film: something the Critics would write about, but not be Seen By Most.
Now it Has Grown into a Blockbuster, and People are Already talking Sequel. As with Most Sequels it Will Increase the Amount of Action and Chaos, and Have a Bigger Budget. The Riot Scenes will Be Shot Documentary Style on Shaky Phones and from TV Helicopters.
Roger Ebert Robot would Write a Mixed Review.
"so this prosecution was mounted to demonstrate to the public that Zimmerman should not be convicted."
No way in hell do I believe this was the prosecutors intent.
This could all be quite a teachable moment.
About stereotypes.
They get a bad rap, generally, when in fact they are highly useful, and can serve one quite well as an initial take, until new, situation-specific information comes in that might cause you to modify them.
That's why they exist. And they have been 'perfected' over generations of observation.
So what does society say are some characteristics of American Blacks?
hair trigger emotions?
quick to jump to violence?
a racial-based group think?
racial-based defense of even the indefensible?
anti police, anti education?
disrespectful attitude?
Any of those on display here?
" the people who got stirred up in Act I can experience catharsis."
Wanna bet?
A man tried to protect his neighbors, doing what people would hope someone would. He gets attacked and beaten for it, and barely avoids serious injury or death by sheer luck of being armed. His community attacks him for it, accusing him of the vilest of motives without any cause whatsoever. Simply because they could.
Reconcile what? It's fucking evil. The system punishes the good and coddles the evil, because that's what bureaucracies full of political interests and ass-coverers do all the time.
~
Maybe you have heard of the tragic murder out here on the Hollywood Walk of Fame last week. A woman tourist takes a picture of a panhandler holding a sign on the sidewalk. He demands she pay him. She refuses, and he stabs her death right there in broad daylight. The killer has 46 prior arrests, most for violent assaults. He has been arrested 4 times for assault or battery just since April. He has numerous convictions for violence.
But hey, lets get this Zimmerman guy for defending his community and himself from violent attack, and lets keep his kind locked up.
Phil 3:14 said...
Is it too late for a beer summit?
===================
If he was asked, I would urge Zimmerman to accept.
Then toss his beer in Obama's face and yell out "Thanks for destroying my life" before Secret Service wrestled him away.
What a photo op that would be!
Nomennovum said...
"As I said before on an earlier thread, if what you say is true, Ann (and I think it is), then the state is playing a very dangerous game. The consequences of such a game can’t be predicted – especially by leftist jack-offs and the politicians who kowtow to them, because they notoriously ignore the reality of human nature. They cannot predict how jurors will react in such emotionally charged trials (or judges for that matter). They also can’t predict the reaction of the public to such a trial, no matter what the outcome. Furthermore, the state is torturing Zimmerman. It is acting fascistically. Also, is not the role of the state to allow us to experience catharsis or to bring us or the alleged victim's family closure. Finally, bringing this case sets a terrible precedent.
This cannot end well."
This. As if we weren't already cynical about our justice system. This trial is making things worse on every side. Another blow to any legitimacy it has had in the past.
Ah well, you can't make a pie crust without breaking a few crackers.
The Blockbuster Sequel will Feature a Song over the End Credits by Eminem and Jay-Z as a Symbol of Racial Harmony. The Song "Stop The Hate (Ass-Cracker)" will Debut at Number One on the Charts. It will be the Song of Late Summer, Blasting out of Cars Cruising Down the Street, Rattling Windows with Thundering Bass.
So prosecutors brought a man they expect is innocent to trial, because they needed a way to calm the population?
Is this why Nakoula is still in jail?
Tyranny like this should not be justified by civilized people.
@ Saint Croix If this is true, it's absolutely disgraceful.
Obscene is the first word that came to mind when I read this this orning.
@ Nomennovum the state is torturing Zimmerman
This. And so my question is: The same people who wail and moan and posture about waterboarding terrorists do this to a man where the inital investigation determined he was acting in self defense? He lives for over a year in fear for himself and his family, (Hey big man Spiko, you are such a kool bro!) under threat that much of his productive life he will be incarcerated as a murderer, surrounded by men who want to murder him daily and with his life in danger probably every day now and into the near future, at least, even if acquitted.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is torture. For what? To appease the guilt of parents who had a son who made some very bad choices? (Why was he not living with his mother? Mmmm?????? Because he was a good kid who took out the garbage and did his homework every night? And played football and helped with the Termites out of the goodness of his heart?)
@ tradguy But it beats the alternative of crowds of cruel men roaming at night killing others they find like Bloody Kansas during the 1850s. (Clint Eastwood depicted the result of those days in the movie The Outlaw Josey Wales.)
Oh really? Been catching any of the tweets out there about how this is going to go down? Guess not. By making it a national story instead of local story (Kermit Gosnell!!??!!) the country has been set up for pockets of violence. The spotlight focused on what could have been a local "problem." Thanks TG, for putting it in perspective.
One can hope not that it "will come into balance," but that this doe not end as badly as it looks like it might. It has been magnified by the irresponsible behavior of all the "Race Reconcilers," including the Reconciler in Chief
I hope Nomennovum is wrong: This can't end well.
"the Rodney King trial, when the jury didn't decide the correct way, President Bush insisted that the police officers be retried."
"On August 4, 1992 a Federal Grand Jury after hearing evidence from federal prosecutors, indicted the four officers on charges of violating King's civil rights. "
Clinton was president, not Bush. Clinton, you know the guy who cleaned up Waco and Ruby Ridge and sent Elian Gonzales back to his daddy.
Zimmerman would not be on trial if his name was Lopez and he looked less white. Obama would not bellyache about a son that he never had and alienated the brown voters that he might not have.
Looks very much like Duke Lacrosse 2.0, doesn't it? Either charged the white "perpetrator" or risked a race riot and lost a place feeding at the public trough. Tough jobs those "persecutors" have, yes?
Ann, brilliant analysis of what's really going on here. Really. I believe I agree with you.
This trial just proves that modern racism comes from the progressive left. It is being used to divide the country. "Creepy Ass Cracker" Trayvon was the profiler and a thug. And if Zimmerman profiled Martin so what? Why the fuck is a 6+ foot tall man of any race walking behind houses and looking in windows in steady rain?
This trial also shows that you people who voted for our first affirmative action president in order to make yourself feel better are stupid. For the author of this blog, who likes to kick people while they are down in previous posts, I am going to remind you Obama was pretty easy to see through even in 08. It was just easily deluded jerks who brought this on us.
This trial is just another kick on the way down. But if you were silly enough to vote for him once you probably don't even have the fortitude to take responsibility for it.
so this prosecution was mounted to demonstrate to the public that Zimmerman should not be convicted
Hahaha! Of course! All the clues were right out there in the opening statement of the prosecution.
HOW did we miss it???
Stupid us.
Michael K,
Aug 1992 would be Bush I.
I think you can believe most all of George Zimmerman's story and still find him guilty of manslaughter.
There is one inconsistency in the story he told police as shown in the reenactment video He says he got out of his car to walk over to the other street to check a street sign and was jumped on the way back to his car.
He says he didn't turn down the path behind the houses that Trayvon Martin turned down. But the fight occurred a little ways down that path.
If he chased Trayvon down that path, the jury can find he was the initiator, even if Trayvon was able to turn the tables on him, and that makes him guilty of manslaughter.
That's what makes Rachel Jaentel's testimony so important. But even if you believe she might be filling in some details, there is the evidence of where the fight took place relative to George's story. We haven't seen that yet, so we can't say the prosecution has no case.
As for the idea this was a racially motivated attack by George Zimmerman, that has been disproved. Lawyers for the Martin family have acknowledged as much.
"The trial is a show trial, a racial CYA on the part of the State and the State is hoping for a conviction in order to avoid race riots."
I'm paying a lot of attention to the prosecutor's behavior, and I believe that he is doing a performance for the sake of catharsis. I think he knows the material he has to work with cannot produce a conviction, and he's almost trying to work with the defense to spell things out so everyone can understand. I think he wants to accomplish and acquittal that makes everyone — even those who responded to the initial race-baiting — feel that justice was done. This is the creditable purpose of this trial at this point, and I think the prosecutor is at peace with that and is trying to bring it in for a successful landing.
I think Crump knows that too and is trying to help.
"On August 4, 1992
Bush was president until 1/20/93.
By the way, this is no longer really the "construct" of older white yuppies defining things in a white-black context to fill out the 50-year old leftist/progressive Jewish Ruling Elites "Race Relations Narrative".
You have blacks essentially acting as a city destoying cancer. Same with most nations where blacks attain majority rule. What civilized people built, is destroyed by them. And the left and progressive jews join the black race baiters and excuse every pathology. And due to their power in media, finance, and academia - have held control of that Narrative as a way to force society to kow-tow to "progressive change, a blessedly non-white and better America,"
But these old 60s products don't sell anymore when anyone younger than 40 has seen blacks they grew up with being privileged with affirmative action, free stuff...and not just whites, but asians and the largest minority - hispanics. All feel they don't owe blacks a thing.
I think the "riot" theory is old and doesn't relate to what we've seen happen this week.
To hell with George Zimmerman. He was a complete coward to let a scrawny kid whom he outweighed by almost 50 pounds inflict a severe beating. If he'd had the b*lls to fight back with his fists instead of having to rely on a gun, none of this would have happened. I really don't care if he gets convicted.
[Note: contrary to what blogospherians think, blacks are NOT stronger or more skilled at street fighting than are people of other races.]
Peter
I think he wants to accomplish and acquittal that makes everyone — even those who responded to the initial race-baiting — feel that justice was done. This is the creditable purpose of this trial at this point, and I think the prosecutor is at peace with that and is trying to bring it in for a successful landing.
Has he told the jury this? If not, what a risky game to play, no?
@elkh1 Couldn't help think of the Duke case as well. I am not aware that this prosecutor is planning a run for any office, but that has certainly become the pattern - that, or disbarment!
Has anyone else seen the picture of 17 year old Trayvon covered with "tats" ?
Fuck you Ann, you are condoning this.
Race baiters are not entitled to "Catharsis" at the expense of the rule of law through show trials.
Fuck you for voting for the affirmative action president who made this all happen.
You are part of the problem.
How is the prosecutor going to protect George from Eric Holder?
I can see the theatre in this, but the catharsis is kind of iffy. It's not so much an exorcism of our racial demons but an exercise of them. The resistance training has made them stronger........I just don't see Zimmerman as guilty of any crime. Just his trail is enraging. Why are white sensibilities so easily disregarded?
"This is the creditable purpose of this trial at this point,"
It is obscene that you are paid by the state (the taxpayers) to teach law students.
"Because I think it wil be scant consolation to George Zimmerman, to have played this role in the process of racial concililation."
I see that, but on the other hand: 1. He did shoot a man to death and must go through some degree of inquiry (even if this is too much), and 2. Having been so severely denounced in the public sphere, he benefits from an elaborate and sober demonstration of his innocence. There was no way he could go forward as a free man unburdened by what happened, and this way, his ordeal does serve some of his interests (even if he would prefer to avoid it). His life would never have emerged from the shadow of this event, no matter what path he was able to proceed upon.
" his ordeal does serve some of his interests"
You are a disgusting person. Do you even read or think about the things you write?
What the hell is wrong with you Althouse? Zimmerman, to my knowledge, has not come out with a position on whether your son should be able to be married.
Is it just the authoritarian leftist in you peeking through your fake "cruel neutrality" mask?
You are saying that the state illegally abusing the judicial system is somehow good for Zimmerman.
And you say playing a video of the obamaphone lady is ugly.
In the end, one must hope, we will come into balance.
It's gone way too far for that.
Your post and your comments push an interesting theory, but like anthropogenic global warming it's a quaint theory with no basis in fact.
see that, but on the other hand: 1. He did shoot a man to death and must go through some degree of inquiry ...
The five or ten minutes the police spent with him was adequate inquiry.
Ann Althouse wrote:
'm paying a lot of attention to the prosecutor's behavior, and I believe that he is doing a performance for the sake of catharsis. I think he knows the material he has to work with cannot produce a conviction, and he's almost trying to work with the defense to spell things out so everyone can understand. I think he wants to accomplish and acquittal that makes everyone — even those who responded to the initial race-baiting — feel that justice was done.
that's crap. Because one, if he is acquited a large chunk of the population will not think that justice was done. There have already been tweats about how if he is acquited the person making the tweat will murder him.
And more importantly, a prosecutor shouldnt charge someone "for catharsis". Either they think he did it or didn't do it. But he should be put through the ringer for catharsis?
What if the prosecutor actually wins the case and Zimmerman goes to jail? If he was doing it for catharsis but succeeds in railroading an innocent man, what catharsis is there for that?
Throwing pearls before swine can be a thankless task.
The big bad wolf of race riots by black monster men is all the swine see.
When that sure event doesn't happen, will it be because all was done properly in reopening and then publicly reclosing the killing of Martin? Or will it be an accident
@Prof Althouse,
His life would never have emerged from the shadow of this event, no matter what path he was able to proceed upon.
I see your point, and it may (emphasis on the word "may")hold for those among the populace who might be amenable to "social catharsis" or reasonable debate.
But for those malcontents like those who publicly take to Twitter with death threats (with their names attached no less)? We were long ago past debate. The only way the malcontents could have been handled was if the black leadership had stood behind the rule of law and backed the results of the original police investigation. The leadership could have told the malcontents "Yeah it sucks, but let's face it, blacks guys get murdered every day, mostly by other black guys. We've got bigger problems than this, so let's not go off the rails here."
But that's not what happened. It was just too sweet to gin up racial animus before an election. It worked, too. Great black turnout. When it all turns ugly after the verdict, the blood will be on the leadership's hands (and that includes you, Mr. President).
PResident Mom Jeans wrote:
You are saying that the state illegally abusing the judicial system is somehow good for Zimmerman.
She's not saying it's good for Zimmerman. It's good for the rest of us.Or for the black community.
She's saying he's the sacrificial lamb.
Did you ever watch the Wicker Man where they put the guy in the Wicker Man contraption and set it on fire becasue sacrifcing a man will supposedly give the community a bountiful harvest?
Zimmerman is that guy. Althouse is just betting that the prosecutor knows he will lose and therefore is not really sacrificing Zimmerman.
Only, OJ was acquited by a bunch of blockheads. And similarly if a jury really wants to get catharsis for the dead black child, finding the guy who did it guilty, no matter what the evidence says will do just as nicely if not better.
And what would the prosecutor do then? celebrate his victory. He woudln't say "Well wait a second I just wanted to give catharsis to the African American community. Clearly Zimmmerman didnt do it".
It's kind of funny that Althouse would make that argument considering she is a law professor.
Ann Althouse said...
"I'm paying a lot of attention to the prosecutor's behavior, and I believe that he is doing a performance for the sake of catharsis. I think he knows the material he has to work with cannot produce a conviction, and he's almost trying to work with the defense to spell things out so everyone can understand. "
WTF? This is why he picked up that woman and took her to the house of the mother of Trayvon rather than a neutral setting, sat his mother right next to her crying, and coached out a statement in order to be able to bring charges?
This is a racial lynching. People like Spike Lee are calling for people to be lynched and tweeting out addresses. This is bullshit.
Spike Lee should be in jail. Rioters should be arrested or if necessary shot if they are endangering lives. We should not be tolerating a public school system that turns out illiterate thugs. People who are pushing black thug culture and the destruction of the black family should be ostracized as the racists they are. And white people who stay stupid shit out of guilt should be ashamed. You are not helping black people by accepting bad behavior and training them to be thugs.
Couldn't help think of the Duke case as well. I am not aware that this prosecutor is planning a run for any office, but that has certainly become the pattern - that, or disbarment!
So when the prosecutor gets disabarred for misconduct or for trying someone he thinks is innocent for "catharsis" we can jstifiably railroad his ass, and similarly get catharsis for an overzealous prosecutor getting his comeuppance.
The Blockbuster Sequel will Feature Flashback Scenes with Will Smith's Son Jaden as Trayvon.
JR,
She is saying its good for Zimmerman. She said it was good for societal "catharsis" (whatever the fuck that is) earlier, but read her quote from her most recent comment.
"There was no way he could go forward as a free man unburdened by what happened, and this way, his ordeal does serve some of his interests (even if he would prefer to avoid it). His life would never have emerged from the shadow of this event, no matter what path he was able to proceed upon."
Ugly. Just fucking ugly.
Total crap.
The Sanford police did not rest with just interrogating Zimmermann and photographing him down at the station the night of the killing; they also went out and did a thorough site investigation the next day, interviewed the witnesses, etc. All of which they have not only documented, but on video tape.
The police dept's recomemendation of justified homicide was wrapped up tight and accepted until three weeks or so later when someone in Alexandria, VA, I think, heard or read about the case and posted something on Facebook or Twitter, and the case became a cause celebre.
Everything since has been much ado about nothing, and it is an outrage that Zimmermann has been put through this for purely political reasons.
Professor said:
Having been so severely denounced in the public sphere, he benefits from an elaborate and sober demonstration of his innocence.
White judge, White attorneys and White Jury??
I think the Professor might be spending too much time in the Ivory Tower!
Could be I missed the word play!
And you, a law professor!!!!!
"There was no way he could go forward as a free man unburdened by what happened, and this way, his ordeal does serve some of his interests (even if he would prefer to avoid it). His life would never have emerged from the shadow of this event, no matter what path he was able to proceed upon."
And if he's found guilty after a prosecutor brings a bogus trial that he knows is bogus, well then I guess he life willl never emerge from the shadow of this event either. And if he gets shanked in prison, well that too is catharsis.
Whatever the jury says won't matter.
Towana Brawley.......NOTHING!
Duke Lacrosse........NOTHING!
Skittle Boy..........NOTHING!
cubanbob wrote:
If Florida race riot traditions are upheld after an acquittal then the riots will only occur and be confined to certain neighborhoods. After the fires are put out and the bodies burried the politicians will demand and provide funding to rebuild those affected neighborhoods. Someone has to pay for the rebuilding and it won't be the rioters, looters and race hustlers doing the paying.
Racial riots provide catharsis too. Plus you might get a free tv out of the deal.
Achilles wrote:
WTF? This is why he picked up that woman and took her to the house of the mother of Trayvon rather than a neutral setting, sat his mother right next to her crying, and coached out a statement in order to be able to bring charges?
That's a good point. If he would do THAT, what makes Althouse think that he's somehow just doing this for catharsis. He's doing this to win, and if he has to coach some witnesses with the victimes mother present, well then so be it.
It's just that his case is so terrible
The moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the "Justice for Trayvon" crowd is both sad and predictable.
It's yet to be established whether GZ is a racist. TM certainly was, calling GZ a "creepy-ass cracker".
I'm just amazed (well, maybe not) at how utterly stupid and unwilling to think critically the "Justice for Trayvon" people are. And Zero is one of them.
Just wondering if the University of Wisconsin Law School has any or many Black students or faculty?
Ann Althouse said...
I see that, but on the other hand: 1. He did shoot a man to death and must go through some degree of inquiry (even if this is too much),
Yes, because the 7 hours of police questioning, which included 2 stress test, the interviewing of 7 witnesses, the re-enactment with the police the next day, and the confiscation of his firearm for ballistics, apparently isn't enough "inquiry" for a lynch mob.
Ann Althouse said...
This is the creditable purpose of this trial at this point, and I think the prosecutor is at peace with that and is trying to bring it in for a successful landing.
Good thing it isn't you sitting there having lost your job and bankrupting yourself having to defend a bullshit political charge, huh?
Oh, and I guess we are to ignore all the death threats Zimmerman (and whites) are getting too.
"Credible"
You're a joke.
Prejudice in white people is considered a disfiguring vice that overwhelms and trumps any other virtue that person might have. See Paula Deen. Prejudice in black people is considered a sign of their authenticity and loyalty to the black community. In all of America you will not find a single person who will publicly say that Jeantel's ignorance is due to her unwillingness to crack a book......I don't think the gene for racial prejudice is attached solely to Caucasian DNA. I have yet to see anyone in either the white and especially the black community to publicly speculate that blacks in any case at any time have been over the top in their resentment of whites.
I've come to believe that the prosecution is conducting a theatrical performance in racial reconciliation. It wasn't politically easy to decline to prosecute Zimmerman, even though the evidence showed he could not be convicted, so this prosecution was mounted to demonstrate to the public that Zimmerman should not be convicted.
What you are describing is a very basic violation of the due process clause. You are describing legal authorities violating their oath of office. And you are describing the dehumanization of an innocent person, who is apparently fodder for a racist show trial.
I'm not condoning this use of the power to prosecute.
That's nice. And yet you also say nice things about this prosecutor!
I think he wants to accomplish an acquittal that makes everyone — even those who responded to the initial race-baiting — feel that justice was done.
And you suggest an innocent Zimmerman receives a benefit from this show trial.
Having been so severely denounced in the public sphere, he benefits from an elaborate and sober demonstration of his innocence.
You have a similar attitude in regard to abortion. In this thread, at 12:32, you write
I personally think abortion is murder. I think it's morally wrong both to do it and to indulge in the pretense that it's not what it is so you can do it
But of course you remain pro-choice. The upshot to this is that you think the baby (or Zimmerman) can be sacrificed.
You try to avoid this ugly procedural irregularity by hoping that there will be some nice outcome. Maybe Mom will choose to keep her baby! Maybe our half-jury of women will acquit the innocent man!
But this hopeful optimism ignores the deceit and dishonesty of the people in power, who have sworn an oath to follow our law. Not play fucking games (semantic or otherwise).
"On August 4, 1992 a Federal Grand Jury after hearing evidence from federal prosecutors, indicted the four officers on charges of violating King's civil rights. "
Clinton was president, not Bush. Clinton, you know the guy who cleaned up Waco and Ruby Ridge and sent Elian Gonzales back to his daddy.
Clinton was elected in November 1992, and assumed office in January 1993.
OpenID elkh1 said...
" Michael K,
Aug 1992 would be Bush I."
You're right. I consider him little different from Clinton in these things but you're right. Of course, the trial was on Clinton's watch but the indictment was under Bush.
Ann Althouse said...
I'm paying a lot of attention to the prosecutor's behavior, and I believe that he is doing a performance for the sake of catharsis. I think he knows the material he has to work with cannot produce a conviction, and he's almost trying to work with the defense to spell things out so everyone can understand.
Well this crackpot theory kind of takes a nose-dive when you consider the defense has made multiple charges of misconduct against the prosecution team.
Most notable, for actively trying to conceal information from Martin's cellphone. In fact, the (former) IT director for the state came out and got an attorney who considers his client a "whistleblower" and that is the only reason the defense got the evidence.
So, you're peddling bullshit.
Ann Althouse said...
I think the "riot" theory is old and doesn't relate to what we've seen happen this week.
It may be old, but we all remember Rodney King.
The riots may or may not happen this time because the prosecution case has absolutely collapsed and it's become pretty obvious Zimmerman was defending himself.
Then again, this is how community organizers like Al Sharpton and Stokeley Carmichael make their living
And then he was convicted.
Oh well. At least I'm not a bigot stuck in the past.
In the press conference announcing the criminal charges, the prosecutor repeatedly referenced "justice for Trayvon". It seems that Justice is too generic.
The president's creepy statement about "His Son" was interesting coming from someone constantly spouting off about tolerance for people "who don't look like you or have a funny name".
Scratch "people" and make that "folks". In matters of race, all politicians call people "folks". Weird.
Riots are so passe'. Even if we had one today it would be different. There would polite respectful gatherings to discuss differences via human microphone with up twinkles and down twinkles to bring points of order.
Well this crackpot theory kind of takes a nose-dive when you consider the defense has made multiple charges of misconduct against the prosecution team.
I haven't watched the trial at all, so I couldn't say.
Perhaps he intended to prosecute fully, but now that his case is falling apart, he wants an acquittal.
I like that argument better than it was a fraud from the very beginning.
A tried and tested traditional catharsis involves purging the intellectuals. Is that what we're hoping for here?
Yea, I didn't think so, or I bet this idea would be a horror beyond description.
I wonder if Homeland Security is collecting the flood of tweets from our cultural elite threatening lynching and murder in order to preempt these terrorist acts, they have the technology. What will be the excuse if Zimmerman or jury members end up assaulted?
Matt at 10:03, awesome.
Ritmo at 10:09, you stink of the moby.
Betamax gives me the giggles at 10:19 and 10:34.
And Althouse pisses us off. On purpose I think!
What does this say about the condition of the states case against Zimmerman so far that it is so shoddy and bad one must conclude it was done for show with no real intent to prosecute? This is what banana republics and communist countries routinely do. Maybe His Excellency Obama can provide a pardon to show the magnanimity of his regime.
"In real life," [one scholar] explained, "men are sometimes too much addicted to pity or fear, sometimes too little; tragedy brings them back to a virtuous and happy mean." Tragedy is then a corrective; through watching tragedy, the audience learns how to feel these emotions at proper levels."
The tragedy is that a teenager died. Zimmerman was too much addicted to his fear of burglars and now he can see that killing someone that he suspected is not the proper reaction.
The friends of Travon are addicted to pity. Will they now understand that sometimes there are accidents and misunderstandings that can end tragically and we can't always prevent that.
Some people can't give up their addictions so I don't know what the outcome will be when this trial is over.
Lauderdale Vet said...
"I don't know what the jurors are thinking but it wouldn't surprise me if they are concerned about triggering a race riot"
CubanBob, do they think like that up in Central Florida? I remember the riots in the 80's down here, but I thought that the rest of the state didn't tack that way so much.
Maybe I'm out of touch.
6/29/13, 9:33 AM
For sure thats true in Tampa and probably in Jacksonville and probably in Central Florida.
Michael said...
Cubabob. Yes, and the store owners will be immigrant Indians or Koreans and they will decide to take their proceeds to another part of town. To earn the money to pay the taxes to rebuild the shitholes they left.
6/29/13, 9:42 AM"
In South Florida you can best be sure white and hispanic areas won't burn. Too many guns around here for that. If business in neighborhoods burn in time the immigrants will rebuild since there is money to be made and these things tend to run in 20 something year cycles. We had our riots in the eighties so I suppose we are due for another cycle.
Don't worry tourist folks. Any area you will visit won't be an area to worry about. The cops and locals will make sure of that.
Yeah, it will be areas like my neighborhood... near Lauderhill, that would be most affected. Having been through the Rodney King riots (I was a USC student, living off campus, at the time) I may update my insurance policies and just be out of town for the verdict.
aldabe it sounds like Trayvon was a bit too addicted to UFC fighting than Zimmerman was to burglars
ARM: It's obvious he committed manslaughter
Then why charge him with murder 2, shit-for-brains?
Jason wrote:
Then why charge him with murder 2, shit-for-brains?
It's all about catharsis, you see.
Any prosecutor who believes a man is not guilty and prosecutes anyway deserves to follow in Trayvon's footsteps.
Yeah, it will be areas like my neighborhood... near Lauderhill, that would be most affected. Having been through the Rodney King riots (I was a USC student, living off campus, at the time) I may update my insurance policies and just be out of town for the verdict.
"I'm paying a lot of attention to the prosecutor's behavior, and I believe that he is doing a performance for the sake of catharsis. I think he knows the material he has to work with cannot produce a conviction, and he's almost trying to work with the defense to spell things out so everyone can understand."
Which is why the prosecutor is overcharging Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder for what even A Reasonable Man is only saying is a manslaughter charge.
Yeah, right.
That's some performance for the sake of catharsis, I'll tell ya.
The prosecution collectively trips and falls.
Althouse tees up the old "I meant to do that" excuse.
That's funny as a joke. As a serious explanation, not so much.
Jason wrote:
Any prosecutor who believes a man is not guilty and prosecutes anyway deserves to follow in Trayvon's footsteps.
Not just prosecutes, but overcharges.
Someone has to say it wrote;
I for one, look forward to the Zimmerman 'wrongful prosecution' lawsuit.
That will prove very cathartic.
It's nice that the prosecutor is being so accomodating to Zimmerman on this,considering it will directly impact him personally when a lawsuit is brought. I guess he feels so bad about GM's treatment that he wants to make sure he earns a million dollar settlment out of his own pocket.
Or, more likely, the case is a dog, and the prosecutor is a joke for bringing it.
The Sequel will Involve Conspiracy Theories to Excite the Audience. Were there Really US Military Drones Overhead in Florida during the Riots? Did Store-Owners Booby-Trap Appliances to Explode in a Looter's Hands? Was There a Second Gunman behind the Grassy Knoll of Zimmerman's Neighborhood? Buffalo Springfield's "For What its Worth" Will Play Over the Montage, Cuing the Baby Boomer Audience on How to React. Titillating.
If I were a Florida taxpayer, I would be very angry about this expensive show trial as a form of reality therapy for Trayvon Martin's family.
Regarding a manslaughter conviction.
As I understand it, at some point there will be a "charging conference" involving the lawyers and the judge in which it will be determined whether to present the jury with lesser included charges such as manslaughter for their consideration during deliberations.
On the one hand, this is bad for Zimmerman as it will give the jury an easy way out if they are as fearful of public reaction as some seem to think.
On the other hand, the right of self-defense is as strong in a manslaughter charge as it is in a murder charge. So if the jury finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense in regard to the murder charge, they must logically apply that finding to a manslaughter charge.
I am open to correction by a more knowledgeable commenter.
NO NO NO. We don't do prosecutions in order to promote vague social goals.
We do prosecutions when there is probable cause to believe that someone has committed all the elements of a crime.
Any prosecutor who is conducting a theatrical performance in racial reconciliation should be fired, disbarred, and sued into bankruptcy.
The TalkLeft link contains this fascinating statement: “It’s not about racial profiling,” Martin family attorney Daryl Parks told reporters. “He was profiled (criminally). George Zimmerman profiled him.”
Ann, perhaps you could help out here. Where does attorney Daryl Parks get get the idea that Zimmerman's decision to call the cops on Martin and later to follow are criminal profiling? I didn't know it was a crime for a neighborhood watch volunteer like Zimmerman to profile anyone for any reason.
I am not even sure what "criminal" profiling means. It sounds to me that attorneys are making up a new crime our of thin air without even statue on the books.
I took a brief scan of the comments on the Daily Beast. The people there are convinced that simply by following Martin with a gun in his pocket Zimmerman acted with depraved indifference. The people there write in grammatical sentences. I do not think it is possible to convince them otherwise. Zimmerman is a long way from being home free.
There IS a method in American criminal law by which a prosecutor can preview his evidence, present the contrary evidence of self-defense, and get a determination whether the charges should go forward.
It's called a GRAND JURY.
It is absolutely routine, and has been for literally hundreds of years, for grand juries to consider self-defense claims and, when appropriate, decline to indict.
But the grand jury process was deliberately, shamefully sidestepped by the Florida state's attorney's office in the political rush to prosecute this as a racially motivated nationally-famous event.
THAT is how there should have been a "public demonstration" that a conviction couldn't be obtained -- through a grand jury no-bill. And that's where this case should have ended.
Florida needs to revise its laws to prevent that kind of shortcut -- with its spectacularly demonstrated potential for abuse -- in the future.
A last remark, to our host:
Prof. Althouse, I know you wrote that you don't condone the use of a prosecution as theater. And I believe you.
I'm disappointed, though, that you offer your observation about what you think is going on without condemning it outright. And I'm surprised you didn't mention the traditional role of grand juries in satisfying public opinion short of unjustly prosecuting someone like Zimmerman on evidence like this.
The cathartic event might not be Zimmerman's acquittal but his conviction. Perhaps emetic is a better word than cathartic....No one in the media or on the left or among the black community is willing to examine their biases or even to admit that they their preconceptions might properly be labeled biases. In their world, Jeantel is a brave pilgrim committed to telling the truth.
Remember back when Obama's buddy Gates got arrested for breaking into his own house and Obama had Gates and the cop have dinner with him?
This is yet more of the same.
A neighbor calls the cops because of suspicious behavior and the black community gets outraged at the "racial profiling" by cops.
In that case, neighbors called the cops and saw someone breaking into Gates's door. It turned out to be Gates (and his driver) himself, but are we going to fault a neighbor who may not know Gates by site, or maybe can't see his face when he's breaking it, from calling the cops?
And are we going to fault the cops for going to a house where a burglary was reported?
IF you are responding to an individual complaint, which both cases are an example, of its hard to say its racial profiling versus, individual profiling.
Should the neighbor or GZ not call the cops when they think there is a suspicious person in their gated community or breaking into a door?
On the other hand, the right of self-defense is as strong in a manslaughter charge as it is in a murder charge. So if the jury finds that Zimmerman acted in self-defense in regard to the murder charge, they must logically apply that finding to a manslaughter charge.
What you say is correct. But inappropriate self-defense would result in a manslaughter conviction.
For instance, if Martin attacked Zimmerman, and was beating him, and the jury finds that his life was not actually in danger, that would be manslaughter.
Beldar said: "NO NO NO. We don't do prosecutions in order to promote vague social goals. We do prosecutions when there is probable cause to believe that someone has committed all the elements of a crime."
I'm not the prosecutor, and I'm not addressing (or endorsing) this decision as legal or ethical. You can talk about what "we" "do," but what I'm doing in this post is encountering something that is in process and observing what I believe the prosecutor is doing at this point, now that's he's gotten embroiled in it the way he has.
Let's say you make a wrong decision and then, in the middle of things, you know that you are in deep shit. What do you do next?
I realize many people would like to shine a harsh light on the prosecution and demand that he confess to wrongdoing. He knows that, I think, and he feels that light. But he's not going to give up. He continues, trying to get through his predicament with dignity and for things to work out in the end.
All I am saying is I think that is what the prosecution is doing.
You say that's not what "we" "do." But it is, in the sense of human behavior, what we do.
Let's say you'd embarked on a life of crime and you wanted out. You probably wouldn't run down to the police station and turn yourself in. You'd try to extricate yourself from that life and cover your tracks.
In my analysis, the prosecutor's behavior is evidence of his awareness that he went wrong, and he's trying to get to the end of this wrong path and on to the rest of his work without having to own up overtly and with some reasonable dignity.
This is typical human behavior.
You may say he should do something more dramatically righteous, but that's not my topic here. That's not the sort of thing that normally happens, and this man, like all of us, is not able to change the past.
This entire affair, encapsulates, in a nutshell, the by now obvious fact that at this stage in our history the governmental edifice of the entire Republic, from the Federal Government on down to the smallest township, has lost ALL legitimacy due to being shot-through with the corrupting influence of multi-culti PC and "white guilt." That and the by now obvious well-honed election-stealing apparatus of the
left that has made the very concept of "honest" elections a running joke. Why ANY citizen would opt to continuing paying taxes to prop up such an illegitimate and corrupt kleptocracy run by leftist bureaucratic psychocrats that would make Kafka beam with pride is beyond me.. Our current form of government has morphed into an entirely malignant parasitic enterprise that lacks ANY sort of electoral legitimacy and/or moral authority whatsoever. We owe it NOTHING...........
nothing but our utter contempt, that is..
Ann,
That's completely different from something that was orchestrated as a cathartic event.
A prosecutor who puts a defendant known to be innocent through the crucible of a murder trial just so the dim witted can feel catharsis should be taken off shore and be keel hauled, and then be disbarred.
In my analysis, the prosecutor's behavior is evidence of his awareness that he went wrong, and he's trying to get to the end of this wrong path and on to the rest of his work without having to own up overtly and with some reasonable dignity.
I like that a lot better! In your original post it sounded like a show trial from the beginning. Now it's just a fuck up and he's playing it out.
But there are still very troublesome questions. How did he not know how weak his case was? Did he not talk to his witnesses? Why the murder 2 when the facts suggest, at best, a manslaughter charge?
It seems like a very public trial to be sloppy with your witnesses. And if he was not sloppy, but knew exactly how weak his case was, then we're back where we started.
Gene: "I am not even sure what "criminal" profiling means."
It's a meaningless term that is now being thrown in the mix since it's becoming more obvious by the minute that trayvon profiled Zimmerman as someone he could go "MMA" on and get away with it.
Time for the left to change the subject and make up new terms that mean whatever they need it to mean in order to score the political victory that they were denied in the Tawana, Duke lacrosse, Gov Perry "racist rock", and about a thousand other cases.
Saint Croix: "But there are still very troublesome questions. How did he not know how weak his case was?"
He did.
SC: " Did he not talk to his witnesses?"
He did.
SC: "Why the murder 2 when the facts suggest, at best, a manslaughter charge?"
Because this has been a political show trial from the beginning, since Obama's would be son look-alike decided to try and take out a creepy ass cracker.
Benjamin Crump is single-handedly responsible for this persecution. He drummed it to make money, and he has already made quite a bit of it. The idea that he is interested in "racial reconciliation" is one that could only appeal to -- Hell, could only even occur to -- the sort of boob who thought Obama would make a good President.
So, Ann, would the Duke Lacrosse players have been better off had they been prosecuted all the way to a "not guilty" verdict?
No. What was needed in this case was a national press that would have treated the matter in a factual, reality-based, non-hysterical manner. So that your nice prosecutors would not have been in the position of -- what? -- a phony prosecution based on political necessity, to satisfy the American Racial Grievance Industry?
Ann Althouse wrote:
Let's say you make a wrong decision and then, in the middle of things, you know that you are in deep shit. What do you do next?
Drop the charges?
Does this prosecutor have anything to do with it other than to do as he is told?
"That's completely different from something that was orchestrated as a cathartic event."
No, not completely different. There are rival "orchestrators" at various points. Something not understood as theater by the performer comes to operate as theater in a way that it takes perspective to perceive.
AA This is the creditable purpose of this trial at this point, and I think the prosecutor is at peace with that and is trying to bring it in for a successful landing.
I think Crump knows that too and is trying to help.
OMG Ann.
George Zimmerman has been crucified, his family crushed, and you have this crappy prosecution down to them hoping they can make a "successful landing" and the racebaiting slandering Crump is trying to "help?"
Maybe they are trying to avoid getting their asses sued off when this is all over, but you can bet the Martins are going to go after Zimmerman again.
If GZ is convicted this will be appealed and overturned in a heart beat there is so much so wrong about how this came about and was handled.
Maybe that's what the jury will come up with to protect themselves from the rabid racists out there ready to take down random whites (who knows what they might do to the female jurors?) They'll convict to save themselves, with the hope that it will be appealed and Zimmerman will go free -- to be stalked by the brothers who want "justice."
You are coming across like you don't realize this is a real person whose life is in real jeapardy here because some leftie SOBs needed to score some points.
So they will just put this innocent man's life up for a game of Russian roulette with this small jury. Sure they will take out most of the bullets, but they can't remove them all, so just pull the trigger and hope the right thing gets done by chance rather than by choice. How incredibly disgusting. I don't want to hear any more bullshit about being a nation of laws - not men. By law, the prosecution should be in jail - not Zimmerman.
What the prosecution did by charging Zimmerman is far worse than what he did to Trayvon. He was trying to protect his community, and let himself be beaten almost unconscious to avoid hurting Trayvon. What the prosecution has done here is the equivalent of Zimmerman chasing down Trayvon to shoot him because of his race. Where are the prosecution's head wounds and busted nose proving that they had no choice but to blast away recklessly at Zimmerman. Fucking little white-collar, don't-get-your-hands-dirty cowards.
I see that people who never cop their mistakes and apologize have a lot of empathy for each other.
Ann Althouse wrote:
Let's say you make a wrong decision and then, in the middle of things, you know that you are in deep shit. What do you do next
Withhold evidence from the defense and allow Crump to coach a witness in front of Trayvon's mother and misrepresent the conversation at trial in front of the judge?
There are a lot of white people, and of course blacks, who are not ready to give up on the case. They want to see whitey convicted and executed, if possible as cruelly as it can be. They are on TV like the pretty young white woman lawyer on Laura Ingraham's show, filling in for O'Reilly last night. They are on left wing web sites and Daily Beast comments.
We might as well be in the Middle Ages with a heretic on trial. Or Massachusetts in 1640 with a witch.
"...the prosecutor's behavior is evidence of his awareness that he went wrong..."
What about his boss, Ms Corey. Let's not shortchange the lady.
Ann Althouse said...
In my analysis, the prosecutor's behavior is evidence of his awareness that he went wrong, and he's trying to get to the end of this wrong path and on to the rest of his work without having to own up overtly and with some reasonable dignity
This "analysis" presumes it took up until now for the prosecutor to realize what bullshit case this was.
That is preposterous.
I mean, it isn't as if Alan Dersowitz took apart the affidavit of probable cause or anything...
" I'm simply observing what is happening."
This is the saddest part. The voices that could effect change refuse.
There are multiple examples of defense attorney's pointing out how utterly irresponsible Angela Corey was at her press conference and what a bullshit affidavit she put together, Ann.
This all happened last year.
Post a Comment