The internal IG timeline shows a unit in the agency was looking at Tea Party and "patriot" groups dating back to early 2010. But it shows that list of criteria drastically expanding by the time a June 2011 briefing was held. It then included groups focused on government spending, government debt, taxes, and education on ways to "make America a better place to live." It even flagged groups whose file included criticism of "how the country is being run."Broader would be better if it meant that liberal and lefty groups were included, but I'm not seeing that.
UPDATE: Obama, this morning: "If in fact IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that's outrageous and there's no place for it -- and they have to be held fully accountable."
Posts
224 comments:
1 – 200 of 224 Newer› Newest»Benghazi must be really bad if the administration is ready to cop to this now.
As someone mention on twitter, in 2010 the Tea Party beats up on Barack Obama, so he weaponized IRS and sic it on his enemies.
Just imagine the fun Obama's crew will have when they can trawl through your medical records too.
Althouse, here is their www site
http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-Profits/About-IRS-Exempt-Organizations
Lois Lerner is an SES, not a mid level 'Crat. She oversees 900 staff
a civilian "General"
and because she's career SES, very fireable...
expect her gone, sooner rather than later. The General Counsel, He's a Political SES
Tell us again about the rule of law, Ms Althouse!
I am a small business owner, as well as an outspoken conservative member of my community. Our recently retired local newspaper publisher knows me by name from the volume of my comments over the years. When my business was audited by the IRS last year, I assumed that it was simply random, as the IRS agent stated. This morning I wrote my Congressman because somewhere, someone has a list of the political audit targets. I want to see it.
The recent episode of Veep deals with an incident of the President lying to the American people.
This real episode we're experiencing is not that funny.
you forgot to mention the Jewish groups that were targeted as well
Everyone remain calm. We've got Biden as a backup.
criticism of "how the country is being run" can certainly be a liberal/progressive/leftist enterprise.
As Robert Cook would be happy to point out.
Broader would be better if it meant that liberal and lefty groups were included, but I'm not seeing that.
The better word is, I think, extended, that is, the illicit probes were found to be successful at intimidating Americans and so were extended to others with unappreciated viewpoints in hopes that they too would be silenced.
"Broader would be better if it meant that liberal and lefty groups were included"
It has always seemed to me that both right and left wing groups push the limit on political advocacy.
realistically, taxpayers would be subject to more audits than Obama voters.
I'm sure that Ezra Klein has an explanation, or a distraction, or a mis-direction ready.
If these scandals have traction and are an indication of a lot more egregious behavior then the next four years will be hell for the democrats. Once the first special prosecutor is appointed more will follow.
This all is great evidence that the staffers don't need a specific mandate from the top to do the bosses' dirty work. Keep that in mind when you consider Hilary's role in Bengazi. She surrounds herself with self starting liars and cover up artists. The can take it and run with it whenever the situation warrants.
This clearly proves that conservatives are insane, paranoid, and dangerous, and that you can trust those of us who say so.
Ann as GM bond holder can I sue the UAW for unjust enrichment along with the regime? Some people made out like bandits and some people used my money to buy votes.
A Biden presidency should be fun. A nincompoop with barely controlled anger...
First, they came for the dissidents, and people did nothing.
Then, they came for da Joos, and the Jews voted for him.
mccullough said...
Benghazi must be really bad if the administration is ready to cop to this now.
Wolves, troika, bride..., you know the drill.
I do believe you have nailed it, sir.
Also, there is some indication that tax records related to contributions were leaked as well. In any case, Monarchs have always used tax collectors to "punish their enemies"
bpm4532 said...
A Biden presidency should be fun. A nincompoop with barely controlled anger..
Give him a week and he'll be institutionalized.
mccullough said...
Benghazi must be really bad if the administration is ready to cop to this now.
The IRS and administration didn't make the admission spontaneously. The Inspector General has or is expected to release a report on the matter. Their admission is an attempt to control the narrative.
The whistle blower trickle will turn into a flood as people scramble to protect their backsides.
Wow. I guess trying to release this on a Friday afternoon... failed.
David said...
This all is great evidence that the staffers don't need a specific mandate from the top to do the bosses' dirty work. Keep that in mind when you consider Hilary's role in Bengazi. She surrounds herself with self starting liars and cover up artists. The can take it and run with it whenever the situation warrants.
That's what Axelrod and ValJar are for.
@Oso Negro, I would be just as suspicious as you are. And I'd be pissed. No one needs to waste time with an audit just because of what they think.
just curious when that celebrated civil libertarian Glenn Greenwald will weigh in on this.
I wonder what Mitt is thinking about all this.
Something like, "I knew I won. now, how long will it take for it come out?".
Give him a week and he'll be institutionalized.
Give him a week and he'll have started nuclear Armageddon. The man was always seriously stupid with little impulse control, but now he's brain damaged from strokes, too.
We haven't even gotten to Obamacare. Imagine the opportunities for corruption there.
"realistically, taxpayers would be subject to more audits than Obama voters".
Two Ears and the Tail for that one.
@Oso Negro, I would be just as suspicious as you are. And I'd be pissed. No one needs to waste time with an audit just because of what they think.
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush. Well, no talk about that in conservative circles, and no talk about that in the media. Basically lefty groups were talking amongst themselves about that.
Of course, there are extremely strong 1st Amendment Protections that will keep the govt from pressuring churches into performing same-sex marriages.
Extremely strong.
Ms. Althouse assures us.
Broader would be better if it meant that liberal and lefty groups were included
Yeah, but as we all know, leftists like government, think government is good & just, and therefore enjoy paying taxes.
They don't need extra scrutiny because they would never cheat on funding their good government with the perfect Obama at the helm.
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush
Hysterical.
It happened all the time!!
Matthew Sablan said... Wow. I guess trying to release this on a Friday afternoon... failed.
5/13/13, 11:02 AM
Makes me wonder what they will dump on Friday before Memorial Day Weekend?
Hillary acepted responsibility for all the Benghazi failings.
The ARB stated that.
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush.
Did a lot of talk translate into a lot of links?
"There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush."
-- Which ones, when? I find people say this to me all the time, but when I ask, they don't have any examples where there was actual wrong-doing by the government, as opposed to here where the government -has admitted to wrong-doing.-
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush. Well, no talk about that in conservative circles, and no talk about that in the media.
So in other words it didn't occur.
"That's a nice business you have there. It would be awful if the IRS found anything wrong with your employee health insurance coverage"
Did a lot of talk translate into a lot of links?
Greenpeace: The Wall Street Journal revealed this week that a little-known watchdog group, largely subsidized by ExxonMobil, was responsible for getting the IRS to audit the environmental organization Greenpeace. We speak with the reporter who broke the story and the head of Greenpeace USA.
When you're done with that and have a comment I'll provide more links for you.
Forty years from Nixon to Nixon...
Well the 1970's version actually knew diplomacy and strategy. This one, not so much.
And by "held fully accountable" he means given a stern look.
So... a private organization makes a complaint and the IRS investigates is the same as ... staffers at the IRS electing to harass people?
Strike one. Try again.
"Broader would be better if it meant that liberal and lefty groups were included"
Now all you have to do is name one such organization on the Left which got this treatment.
"It has always seemed to me that both right and left wing groups push the limit on political advocacy."
Compare how favorably the liberal media treat the Dems as to the Republican Party.
"How many millions of words were wasted by liberal journalists on the phony Valerie Plame “scandal,” and who ever could have doubted that it was a Democrat “obsession” — a ginned-up mountain of paranoia inspired by a minor molehill of events?
Does no one else remember how liberals pretended that Valerie Plame’s employment status at the CIA was America’s most closely-guarded national security secret, until that afternoon in July 2003 when Richard Armitage mentioned her to Bob Novak? And have we completely forgotten that the real scandal — the story Novak was actually trying to report — was the mystery of how Plame’s husband Joe Wilson, a diplomat with no genuinely relevant expertise, got the assignment to travel to Africa on a CIA-sponsored trip to investigate British intelligence reports that Iraq had obtained uranium ore from Niger? Has it also now been forgotten that, because Novak would not identify his sources, Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) launched a witch hunt that blamed Karl Rove and/or Dick Cheney for “outing” Plame, who was not exactly a secret agent, thus leading to an investigation that resulted in the prosecution and imprisonment of Scooter Libby?"
http://theothermccain.com/2013/05/12/a-short-lession-in-liberal-media-bias-has-alex-koppelman-forgotten-fitzmas/
Garage,
so you have any evidence that suggests a large number of liberal groups were targeted for increased scrutiny by the IRS because they have "green", "progress", or some other descriptive term in their name? if not, then it isn't equivalent.
Re: Greenpeace, it looks like there were concrete allegations of specific funds used for specific inappropriate purposes made publicly by the watchdog group. They issued a press release! The Greenpeace case, at least, is not even remotely like the conduct at issue here.
THEY'll be held accountable, but not ME. Noooo, not ME.
garage mahal said...
Greenpeace: The Wall Street Journal revealed this week that a little-known watchdog group, largely subsidized by ExxonMobil, was responsible for getting the IRS to audit the environmental organization Greenpeace. We speak with the reporter who broke the story and the head of Greenpeace USA.
Notice: no link to the Wall Street Journal is provided at that site.
Want to guess why that is?
Notice: the entire allegation is based off the claim of the Executive Director of Greenpeace USA. There are no documents, there is no admission from the IRS, merely the recantation of hearsay.
Notice: "getting getting the IRS to audit" is not the same as what happened here.
Conclusion: you're a fucking moron.
GM wrote: When you're done with that and have a comment I'll provide more links for you.
Exxon convinces the IRS to have a look at one of its biggest antagonists--Green Peace-- and that is somehow the same as the IRS on its own deciding to look at the Tea Party? Am I missing something here garage or do you wish to comment on who convinced the IRS to look at the Tea Party?
"There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush"
Now all you have to do is identify one.
garage mahal said...
When you're done with that and have a comment I'll provide more links for you.
Um, dum-dum, the link you provided is self refuting.
It is beyond comical you think the allegation of the Executive Director of Greenpeace = fact.
Hey, if Greenpeace was flagged for a "political audit" as they claim, where is the lawsuit?
Again, you're a fucking moron.
"Hillary acepted responsibility for all the Benghazi failings."
But none of the blame.
If garage mahal had his druthers, he'd be auditing every Republican in Wisconsin out of business. He'd especially dwell on Walker.
When you're done with that and have a comment I'll provide more links for you.
My wife likes to do this to me. When I say to her "Please, XYZ is a problem, can you be responsible about it?"
The answer comes back "But you were irresponsible with ABC, so it's OK that I'm irresponsible with XYZ."
No, it's not OK. That's what I call dumpster diving, because that line of reasoning can be used to justify any bad behavior.
How about this, Garage, simply say "It's Wrong, and needs to be stopped, and whenever we find such things, they need to be stopped."
It's that simple.
Urkel said...
"and they have to be held fully accountable."
They will be given raises and promotions forthwith and moved into a broader monitoring scope. Nothing says taking care of incompetence like advancement. Don't believe me, Urkel is the prime example.
I am shocked, SHOCKED that a corrupt nigger would use government power to attack his enemies illegally. Shocked, I tell you! Even after he let the Black Panthers go!
Enjoy the decline, morons!
"Conclusion: you're a fucking moron."
Bazinga!
you forgot to mention the Jewish groups that were targeted as well
I think the Jewish groups that support Israel.
garage mahal said...
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush.
Lots of talk, hmmm...? From whom and where? When do you find that speaking in vague and nebulous ways is appropriate as a means to establish truth and facts? Between or after feedings?
I repeat: Benghazi and the IRS used for political vindictiveness--these may not rise to impeachable offenses but they are good reasons to vote in mid term candidates who will further shellac and feather the POTUS.
garage doesn't read his own links.
But they’re convinced, and after I talked to Hardiman, he claimed credit for it, although I have to say, when I first interviewed him, he was not aware that the I.R.S., in fact, had audited either Greenpeace or Dogwood Alliance, and seemed a little surprised.
Yes folks, the grand evil master behind the audit of Greenpeace, didn't even know it happened.
Who is surprised that the "evidence" by the same person who asserted Albert Einstein is a product of America's public schools is, well, not evidence at all?
One thing is certain. NO IRS employee will lose their job over this.
Exxon convinces the IRS to have a look at one of its biggest antagonists--Green Peace-- and that is somehow the same as the IRS on its own deciding to look at the Tea Party?
I think you have to take the comments from the individual who believed Einstein and Jimi Hendrix were products of the American public school system with a half a grain of salt.
Strelnikov said...
And by "held fully accountable" he means given a stern look.
Or a new gig at a well-paying Democrat firm.
For every hour these organizations had to spend dealing with harassment from the government, it was one less hour they could devote to their objectives.
I say, Mission Accomplished!
Mickey Kaus, meanwhile, reminds everyone that Democratic bureaucrats did this under Clinton, too, and do not need to be instructed to do this -- apparently they all want to do it. - Ace at AOSHQ
Althouse - Can't you see the IP address of WOTI? It has to be someone else on this blog sockpuppeting.
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush
No such thing happened.
Leftists groups were not targeted by the IRS because they were leftists.
I love how "mysterious police checkpoints" were screamed about by the Left during the 2000 election. It turned out to be a completely false story but it was cited as a "voter suppression" effort.
When this happens, the Left screams - eh, they shouldn't have applied for tax exempt status anyway.
THE PLOT THICKENS: ABC News has obtained a draft of a soon-to-be-released investigative reporting (sic) showing that the Internal Revenue Service began targeting conservative groups as far back as 2010 and that senior IRS officials in Washington have known about it for almost two years.
garage mahal said...
There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush. Well, no talk about that in conservative circles, and no talk about that in the media. Basically lefty groups were talking amongst themselves about that.
The lefty groups must have been talking amongst themselves, because nobody else heard about it.
Notice: "getting getting the IRS to audit" is not the same as what happened here.
Of fucking course it's not!
I'm sure this is all a coincidence too:
The Internal Revenue Service is referring to the Justice Department the refusal by the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People to respond to an IRS summons, according to BNA. The case arose in the fall of 2004 when the IRS notified the NAACP it was conducting an examination into whether a speech by Chairman Julian Bond that criticized policies of President Bush constituted prohibited campaign intervention
If senior IRS officials knew about it for 2 years, people up the food chain knew about it. There may not be a paper record of direct conversations, but meeting records placing different officials in the same meeting at the same time would indicate coordination.
and they have to be held fully accountable."
This would be the first time someone's been held fully acountable in the Obama administration.
Pure dishonest genius from President Obama:
"If in fact IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that's outrageous and there's no place for it -- and they have to be held fully accountable."
Let's parse that, shall we?
"If in fact..."
Well, the IRS admitted they did it. Why "If"?
"that have been reported on" The IRS admitted it, and it was admitted only because the next day the independent, non-partisan Inspector General reported even worse behavior. If you only consider those unconfirmed reports, who do you expect will be able to confirm it?
"...and they have to be held fully accountable."
Well, there is only one person with the duty and power to hold them accountable: their boss, POTUS Barack Obama. Have at it, champ! If you don't hold them fully accountable, i.e., if there aren't firings and jail time, we'll know it is because you ordered it.
Garage: There's a difference between a justified investigation into a specific thing and targeted audits to harass your enemies. Strike two.
garage mahal might be interested to know that many of us tea party types thought that IRS has been used for decades against enemies by both sides of the aisle and that is exactly why many of us a) propose a straight tax or at least something that does not require an entire industry to sustain it, b) never revered the last Republican administration, d) don't want more of the same on steroids and c) are particularly pissed when someone presents himself as that better way when is just more and worse of the same old thing.
Many (most?) of the Tea Party do not define themselves as Republican or Democrat, object at attempts by the Repubs to appropriate our discourse for theirs (when they are not of our mind) and statism and progressivism of all sorts whether an R or D follows its name.
Your sad little whining just sounds like, well, sad little whining about party politics all the while you miss the bigger picture, which has absolutely nothing to do with parties. Widen your vision or admit to blindness.
More coincidences:
The Inspector General’s report covered a number of FBI targets following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: an antiwar rally in Pittsburgh; a Catholic peace magazine; a Quaker activist; and members of the environmental group Greenpeace as well as of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA.
Broader would be better...
How would it have been better if a leftist organization had been targeted for intimidation by audit? The outrage is the use of the IRs to intimidate ANY organization anywhere on the political spectrum.
Didn't Obama manage to get access to someone's sealed divorce records and win his first election?
And didn't someone else take it upon themselves to violate Joe the Plumber's privacy?
Why would any employee of the IRS not think that what they were doing was acceptable?
And yes, Obama will probably have some people fired. He does that, you know. BOOM! You're fired! Anything that might stick to him needs a scapegoat.
Need more data for your third example.
I'm sure this is all a coincidence too:
Yes. Since the IRS specifically stated the justification for the audit.
I'm sure this is all a coincidence too:
Nice little tu quoque fallacy. Is anyone claiming the NAACP shouldn't be held accountable for not following laws regarding non-profits and political activities? Except you that is. Did the IRS make similar claims about the conservative organizations? NO. You're just a tool and a fraud. No ethics, no morals, no common decency, just a liberal fascist pig wanna be.
Like you care about fair and equal enforcemnt of the law. Keep digging, but be careful. You may not be able to climb out of the hole you dig.
Obama twice in the same senatorial election cycle got sealed divorce records disclosed.
- one of his primary opponents
- his republican adversary.
Amazing for someone who never really did anything in the Illinois Senate.
"The Inspector General’s report covered a number of FBI targets following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: an antiwar rally in Pittsburgh; a Catholic peace magazine; a Quaker activist; and members of the environmental group Greenpeace as well as of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA."
And they didn't investigate conservatives? I don't approve of a lot of the domestic response to 9-11 but it wasn't directed at one side of the political spectrum over another (indeed, in all likelihood a great number of investigations were probably undertaken to obscure targeted investigations of Islamic groups since Bush was so very focused on not making our response about Islam as a whole.)
Maybe that's the part of this you don't get garage. If being tax exempt means a group can't endorse candidates or whatever... then it's right and good to investigate groups that seem particularly political. What's *wrong* isn't the investigations. What's wrong is that only one side of the political spectrum (and Israel supporting Jews) were selected for this treatment. And since the IRS said that this is what they did... where is the ambiguity?
the proverbial Buck seems to have taken a detour and gotten lost since January 2009 since it never seems to stop at this president's desk. My guess is that it is probably located somewhere near Crawford, Texas.
UPDATE: Obama, this morning: "If in fact IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that's outrageous and there's no place for it -- and they have to be held fully accountable."
So now they hiring comedy writers at the west wing? I knew we would eventually get to a summer of recovery.
The only two reasons the media is looking into this are 1)because it is a distraction from Benghazi, and 2)there is no way this can be attributed to Hillary
I'll play pitch and catch, Garage:
(Washington, April 2 [1999]) Judge Paul Friedman, who was appointed by President Clinton to the federal bench in Washington, DC, has sustained a decision by the Clinton-run Internal Revenue Service to remove the tax exempt status of a Christian church that had placed newspaper advertisements critical of Bill Clinton's moral views and policies. At the time of Clinton's IRS decision, tens of groups critical of Clinton were subject to IRS audits. Many other IRS audits of Clinton critics followed.
@bpm, it was sealed divorce proceedings in the case of Blair Hull and child custody agreements in the case of Jack Ryan. Axelrod somehow managed to convince a California judge to unseal the custody records even though they had nothing to do with anything occurring in Illinois.
And they didn't investigate conservatives?
Conservatives, who all supported the war? I doubt it.
Garage is going where no man has gone before in the universe of pathetic.
Do you guys remember the Clintons siccing the IRS on Billy Dale after firing him from the White House Travel Office and installing their cronies?
Just noticing garage's tacit admission that Obama is wrong because others were wrong.
Is there any room to move beyond that?
garage mahal said...
*stuff written in italics*
Putting stuff in italics is not the same as providing a link.
Not that I intend to follow more of your links on the topic. I've found that if someone starts providing links to support their argument, and the first link clearly fails to support their argument, none of the later links will be worth it either.
Always link your best example first, or people will choose not to waste their time on the later ones.
Shorter garage mahal: IRS buggering is old hat. Deal with it.
No, el Pollo, garage mahal's implied argument is that Obama is not wrong because some conservative somewhere else in the world is.
The same democrats that claim "Bush did it" to absolve Obama, also blame republican obstructionism now, but forget that democrats obstructed Bush.
Nathan Alexander said...
No, el Pollo, garage mahal's implied argument is that Obama is not wrong because some conservative somewhere else in the world is.
His whole argument is a tit for tat bitch.
Thank you garage. I had not realized that a person can lobby the IRS to audit someone.
Time to start writing letters!
"it looks like there were concrete allegations of specific funds used for specific inappropriate purposes made publicly by the watchdog group.
Also note that Democracy Now, so keen to tout the Wall Street Journal basis of their story, weren't too keen on actually linking any Journal source material.
Maybe because the facts as presented by the Journal didn't quite align with the narrative Democracy Now was trying to spin.
It's the Henry II Gambit -- the off-hand dinner-table complaint, "Will no one rid me of this meddling priest?", quite casual, actually, said almost in jest, and no one noticed the armed barons leaving the hall and taking the dark road for Canterbury ... and afterwards, well, those men had done great things for the throne in many instances and whyever should they not have the King's grace and favour, so sad about the Archbishop, but then that was a great long time ago and these are loyal servants of the Crown who deserve promotion for their MANY faithful services...
There will be no impeachment, at least not on the IRS issue. With luck they'll cleanse a few barons and a few zealot followers, but it won't go much farther than that. Better to tie the scandal to Obamacare, to make the public understand that the malignant outgrowths that will do this on a whim are the ones that are going to have ALL their most private and personal information in the future, and they will have nowhere to hide and no protection from the whirlwind when it comes.
Thank you garage. I had not realized that a person can lobby the IRS to audit someone
Yep, the comment section quite clearly advocates anyone, or any group, to forcefully lobby the IRS to get Tea Party groups audited!
garage mahal's implied argument is that Obama is not wrong because some conservative somewhere else in the world is.
More precisely that it's OK for Obama to break the law and do whatever the hell he pleases because garage can find some obscure example some where of somebody on the other side of the fence doing something that may the the same or looks a little the same to a totally biased, in the the tank liberal fascist like garage.
Ignorance is Bliss said...
Not that I intend to follow more of your links on the topic. I've found that if someone starts providing links to support their argument, and the first link clearly fails to support their argument, none of the later links will be worth it either
It is funny to watch him flop and flail.
I have a hard time believing he is convinced of his own utter nonsense.
But you never know.
I love this!
The Inspector General’s report covered a number of FBI targets following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: an antiwar rally in Pittsburgh; a Catholic peace magazine; a Quaker activist; and members of the environmental group Greenpeace as well as of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA.
No source
No context provided. Of course this is truncated and doesn't mean what garagie thinks it means.
When you're done with that and have a comment I'll provide more links for you.
You know, you used democracynow as your source. In that source, they state that the WSJ reported this. Yet there is no link to the WSJ story. I wonder why that is?
Unless I'm missing it. Please feel free to post the actual link to the story by WSJ.
Notice: no link to the Wall Street Journal is provided at that site.
Want to guess why that is?
Jay, you were quicker than I. Good catch.
No source
Here ya go. And a handy link to the IG report.
There was a time in the 1960s when the FBI’s illegal surveillance of left-wing groups seemed, and maybe even was, sinister if not broadly menacing. Parts of today’s Justice Department report on its more recent activities, however, evoke that old saw about history repeating itself as farce.
Is he not involved in ANY way in ANY part of the government that he is supposed to lead?
In that source, they state that the WSJ reported this. Yet there is no link to the WSJ story. I wonder why that is?
Not sure why either. Here is a link to the Wall Street journal story by Steve Stecklow (reprinted)
I'm sure this is all a coincidence too:
Translation - my first piece of evidence was so completely destroyed by commenters that - Look! Squirrel!
FBI targets
FBI <> IRS.
Please, garage, you're making a fool of yourself. Quit while you still can.
Garage. FYI. The IRS is not the same agency as the FBI. The FBI can investigate their tits loose but cant compel a years' long audit on a whim that leaves the audited broke
Garage. That link is to an article published in 2006. That is a longer time ago than Benghazi and Benghazi was a long long time ago. Get with the new extremist progressives!
Obama said he learned of the allegations through news reports on Friday.
Bullshit.
Garage. FYI. The IRS is not the same agency as the FBI. The FBI can investigate their tits loose but cant compel a years' long audit on a whim that leaves the audited broke
If you had read closer, I never said they were. The FBI did target lefty peace groups and put them on terror watch lists though.
If you had read closer, I never said they were. The FBI did target lefty peace groups and put them on terror watch lists though.
You're making this argument in a thread about whether the IRS chose groups to audit and harass for NO OTHER REASON than their political leanings. Apples and oranges.
Yep, the comment section quite clearly advocates anyone, or any group, to forcefully lobby the IRS to get Tea Party groups audited!
Hooray for Democracy!
From Garage's first link about Greenpeace:
"It’s important to know that we came out of this with flying colors. Greenpeace, in the auditor’s words — and I have to say I think it’s inappropriate the way the I.R.S. came in, but then the audit was done professionally, and the auditor told me, 'This is as clean an operation as I've been in. You guys were transparent and forthcoming, and you should be proud of the way you keep your books.’"
From Garage's 12:58pm link...
"The letters did note nine 'deficiencies' uncovered during the audit, including Greenpeace's recordkeeping. The agency also found that while the activist group had been engaged in unspecified unlawful activities, they weren't Greenpeace's primary purpose and therefore don't affect its tax status."
So, the Greenpeace guy (who claimed the IRS agent said the audit was political in nature) also said that they were cleared with "flying color". Yet, the news report shows that this was not true. Besides the fact that the Greenpeace guy's claims were total hearsay, which he knew the IRS would never comment on, we have evidence that he was misleading about the actual results of the audit. Due to that, plus his vested interest in the claim being believed, he is simply not a reliable source.
This does not mean it did not happen. Just that the evidence provided does not, in anyway, prove that it did either beyond a reasonable doubt or with a preponderance of evidence.
However, we do know that the IRS was engaged in wrongdoing against conservative groups though seeing as how they said so themselves.
Garage, you do understand that the evidence you offered does not prove anything, correct?
MadisonMan said...
Thank you garage. I had not realized that a person can lobby the IRS to audit someone.
Time to start writing letters!
Dude!
That's the last time the DMV fucks with me!
DADvocate said...
Garage is going where no man has gone before in the universe of pathetic.
Unpossible. He's still headed there at Warp Factor Stupid.
"Stepping up its probe of allegedly improper campaigning by churches, the Internal Revenue Service on Friday ordered a liberal Pasadena parish to turn over all the documents and e-mails it produced during the 2004 election year with references to political candidates.
All Saints Episcopal Church and its rector, the Rev. Ed Bacon, have until Sept. 29 to present the sermons, newsletters and electronic communications.
The IRS investigation was triggered by an antiwar sermon delivered by its former rector, the Rev. George F. Regas, at the church two days before the 2004 presidential election. The summons even requests utility bills to establish costs associated with hosting Regas' speech. Bacon was ordered to testify before IRS officials Oct. 11." LINK
From the article Garage just linked...
"The tax code bars nonprofits, including churches, from endorsing or campaigning against candidates in an election."
This is not targeting people because of their political beliefs. This is investigating someone for violating the tax code. You do understand the difference, right?
... and they have to be held fully accountable."
Can Somebody forward the presidents message to people in the State department that may know something about what happened in Benghazi?
Or does accountability only apply to selected departments and selected people within those departments?... I mean if that how they operate... if that how they do their job... selectively... then it would be logical to assume the presidents directives are also to be selectively applied?
I'm asking out a sense of fairness, out of deference to the presidents management style...
hrmmm haaa.
if garage mahal can score a political point through deliberate ignorance, then, no, he will not understand the difference for long enough to let his dishonesty have an impact.
The pattern is 100% Obamacentric. His targets are the groups the educate Americans that the USA Constitutional Republic. That is "Political" because it will block his One Man Rule method of governing.
Only a One Man government can sell us out to the UN Treaty and leave town like the half breed Indian Chiefs could sign a treaty selling out the Creeks, Choctaws and Cherokees tribes in the early 1800s.
Maybe a few billion more anti personnel ammo rounds for the Federal Agents will be needed.
This is not targeting people because of their political beliefs.
Uh huh. Sure.
Obama said he learned of the allegations through news reports on Friday.
When somebody uses the incompetence defense over and over like Obama does... I can only assume is that he does that because he has no respect for the American people.
garage mahal said...
This is not targeting people because of their political beliefs.
Uh huh. Sure.
5/13/13, 1:40 PM
Where is the evidence that it was? Because he was liberal and Bush was a Republican? That is not evidence. By that standard, no one who claims allegiance with the party that opposes the one in the White House can EVER be investigated even if there is evidence of possible wrong doing.
The IRS targeted conservative groups without any evidence of wrong doing. They admitted it.
So far, you have presented two examples claiming the same was done to liberals: one based only on hearsay from a person with a vested interest and one where there is actually an indication of possible wrong doing.
You do see understand why your examples fail to make your point, right?
Just imagine the fun Obama's crew will have when they can trawl through your medical records too.
I started out trying to say something coherent... but the only word that comes to mind is mindboggling.
Re: garage:
Yep, the comment section quite clearly advocates anyone, or any group, to forcefully lobby the IRS to get Tea Party groups audited!
Look, if someone has specific information that a specific Tea Party nonprofit is using tax exempted funds for specific impermissible purposes, I really don't have a problem with their telling the IRS, and the IRS doing a little checking.
That's a different -- and decidedly higher -- standard than deciding to audit a bunch of groups just because they have "tea party" in their name. Now, if the IRS received tips about liberal groups and tips about conservative groups and only ever went after the liberal groups, there would be cause for concern. But again, that's yet another, different hypothetical.
Everybody does it.
This is not targeting people because of their political beliefs. This is investigating someone for violating the tax code. You do understand the difference, right?
This is the same guy who said Albert Einstein was a product of the American public school system. I'm not willing to bet he understands much of anything.
Oh, and Garage, since your two 'IRS targeting liberals for their views' claims were bogus, I'm not going to bother with anymore that you post. I have better things to do. Just want to make that clear in the off chance you actually find one that is true and then get annoyed that it is ignored.
Could this have anything to do with the IRS purchase of shotguns and ammo?
The Garage Principle: "If Liberals do something bad in government Republicans did it too, and worse."
From there he'll torture any data available to try to make the narrative work.
Matt, I'm sure garage will be heartbroken, won't you reconsider?
garage mahal said...
Did a lot of talk translate into a lot of links?
Greenpeace: The Wall Street Journal revealed this week that a little-known watchdog group, largely subsidized by ExxonMobil, was responsible for getting the IRS to audit the environmental organization Greenpeace. We speak with the reporter who broke the story and the head of Greenpeace USA.
When you're done with that and have a comment I'll provide more links for you.
Hate to tell you, but anybody can drop a dime to the Compliance Division and suggest they take a look at someone.
Even garage can do it.
The husband of one of my best buds at the IRS was in Compliance. They got tips all the time.
This is "dog bites man" stuff.
Oh, and Garage, since your two 'IRS targeting liberals for their views' claims were bogus
Who decided that? Oh, you? Okay then!
If you ever need to see a defense of IRS, just ask a conservative about an audit of a lefty group.
But I see no defense of
Why any of you take the bait and engage in the squirell tactics of the fat divorced undeducated fuck is beyond me.
The only response to his chumming the water with bullshit equivalency attempts (failed might I add) is to mock him for his wife leaving him, poor physical condition, lack of education, and delusional claims about economic success.
It is all just distractions to the government using its resources against the political opposition. People need to lose their jobs if not spend time in jail cells.
The Garage Principle: "If Liberals do something bad in government Republicans did it too, and worse."
The left suffers from cognitive dissonance on a galactic level. They will incessantly complain of conservatives and the GOP steering the country toward fascism yet when incidents like these occur under a leftist administration, they are utterly sanguine over it.
Every single thread that in any way portrarys President Foodstamps administration in a less than complimentary light gets one of the liberal retards comes in to derail it, every single one.
It's like Bitchtits, that drunk cow Inga, Phx the Twat, and whatever Ritmo's new sockpupped since Althouse started deleting his comments work in shifts.
"The Tea Party had their possessions ransacked, and computers, photos, papers, and cell phones taken. No arrests were made nor charges filed. The FBI said the raids were part of “an ongoing investigation,” but the raids appear to be a fishing expedition to intimidate dissenters into silence, and ratchet up police state measures by inferring that peaceful protest of ObamaCare is terrorism."Link.
Oh wait, those were just peace activists. NEVER MIND.
garage mahal said...
If you ever need to see a defense of IRS, just ask a conservative about an audit of a lefty group.
We know for a fact the IRS targeted right leaning groups. There is no evidence (beyond the assertions of those not in a position to know) that the IRS targeted left leaning groups. Yet according to garage these fact patterns are identical. It's almost like facts that don't fit the narrative are ignored, while whatever missing "facts" are necessary are simply created.
Igna wrote: "Matt, I'm sure garage will be heartbroken, won't you reconsider?"
Obamatrolls united in defense of the indefensible.
The more Garage writes, the more I think the IRS is to ripe for abuse by politicians, and we should repeal the Income Tax Amendment and disband the IRS. There are other, more transparent ways, to collect taxs for revenue. What say you, Garage? Are you for a simpler tax code and a limited government that cannot abuse its citizens?
Re: garage --
(a) That sounds like standard FBI procedure, unfortunately -- we saw the same thing recently with the raid on that poor fellow who was falsely accused of bioterrorism recently. They just trashed his house during their "search." That's obviously wrong, but they do it to everyone.
(b) the characterisation in the linked article -- "the raids appear to be a fishing expedition to intimidate dissenters into silence, and ratchet up police state measures by inferring that peaceful protest of war is terrorism" -- is supported by no analysis whatsoever. In fact, it sounds paranoid more than anything else, and the site itself seems kind of kooky.
I'm not saying there wasn't an effort to intimidate people. Just that the FBI trashing a place during a search for an investigation that results in no prosecutions is not evidence of an effort to intimidate people. Because that happens all the time.
If in fact IRS personnel engaged in the kind of practices that have been reported on and were intentionally targeting conservative groups, then that's outrageous and there's no place for it -- and they have to be held fully accountable
I'm SHOCKED to find that gambling is going on in here!
Just ask Gibson guitars about the zealotry of Federal agents.
-- is supported by no analysis whatsoever. In fact, it sounds paranoid more than anything else, and the site itself seems kind of kooky.
Seriously? That's how you would feel if you were part of that group? Sorry I don't buy it.
I'm sure anyone who has Federal agents swarming into their offices would feel such an investigation was politically motivated. However, as was pointed out, there wasn't any evidence provided other than this group's opinion.
Re: garage:
Seriously? That's how you would feel if you were part of that group? Sorry I don't buy it.
I do criminal defense work. People always feel horribly violated after an FBI raid. And you hear a lot of conspiracy theories about how the government is unjustly targeting this or that group for political reasons and that's the only reason they're on the receiving end of an FBI raid (or even just on the receiving end of a subpoena). And to be frank, if the FBI rifled through my junk, I'd feel horribly violated, and probably react the same way. Conspiracy theories are comforting. But I've seen that reaction enough times that my first thought is not that they're right that the investigation is politically motivated.
People always feel horribly violated after an FBI raid
But it wasn't just one FBI raid. They were spying on all sorts of anti war groups.
The report concluded that, while the FBI probes were not generally predicated simply on the views of the targets, at least one FBI field office was focused on a group “as a result of its anti-war views.” It also found that “FBI agents and supervisors sometimes provided the [Office of the Inspector General] with speculative, after-the-fact rationalizations for their prior decisions to open investigations that we did not find persuasive.” Link.
RE: Garage:
That's a much better source. When I read the actual OIG report, however, they conclude (page 193) that "the evidence did not indicate that the FBI targeted any of the groups for investigation on the basis of their First Amendment activities."
That said, documents "gave the impression" that the Pittsburgh division focused on the Merton Center due to its anti-war views, and there are a bunch of specifics given, so people at the Merton Center do have something to complain about.
Here is a non-loony report on the FBI activity covered by the OIG report. The Merton Center stuff is actually quite egregious because the IG found the FBI lied to Congress.
Lefties: When "tu quoque" is your best comeback, you're pretty much standing on one leg, if that.
@balfegor
thanks I'll read your link.
The IRS ADMITS that it improperly targeted applicants based on their political views and without other cause, yet garage feels the need to defend them for some reason.
I love the call and response nature here: “Still, you’ll hear voices that incessantly warn of government as nothing more than some separate, sinister entity that’s the root of all our problems … or that tyranny always lurks just around the corner. You should reject these voices because what they suggest is that … we can’t be trusted.”
President Obama, May 9, 2013
.....
[IRS] agents chose to screen applications from groups focused on making "America a better place to live." Reuters US Edition, May 13, 2013
I'm with Leland; do away with the income tax and most of the worst tendencies of the IRS. Fair Tax (or flat tax), Baby!
Colonel Angus: "The left suffers from cognitive dissonance on a galactic level. They will incessantly complain of conservatives and the GOP steering the country toward fascism yet when incidents like these occur under a leftist administration, they are utterly sanguine over it."
Fen's Law.
HA HA HA HA HA
HA HA HA HA HA
The Justice Department secretly obtained two months of telephone records of reporters and editors for The Associated Press in what the news cooperative’s top executive called a ‘massive and unprecedented intrusion’ into how news organizations gather the news.
This guy is way, way worse than Nixon.
Jay, the AP needs to STFU and quit being racist.
Saw the AP story. Lots more dirt to come from the Justice Dept as they try to get Perez confirmed at Labor (might have a little trouble after he lied to Congress before). There must be a lot of lawyers around there that want to keep practicing their trade after they leave Justice, so they'll squeal like stuck pigs.
More dirt to come from SEC, Treasury, Labor, HHS, Education and Energy, too. Some there will want soft landings as opposed to disbarment or jail time.
garage mahal said...
Oh wait, those were just peace activists.
garage reveals he doesn't know how police raids work.
Of course that was after he revealed a lack of understanding that the FBI isn't the IRS.
So that's progress, I guess.
Leftists who demand big government should not be surprised when that big government starts throwing its weight around.
Conservatives have been consistent in its stance on reducing the size, power and scope of the Federal government. Listening to tu quoqe examples of Feds targeting left wing groups is just a case of be careful what you wish for.
Of course that was after he revealed a lack of understanding that the FBI isn't the IRS.
Not my problem if you don't know how to read.
"There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush."
Got it now, brainiac?
"There was a lot of that talk when lefty groups were being audited and surveilled under Bush."
No such thing happened.
garage, has the IRS confessed?
No such thing happened.
It was linked, discussed, and confirmed. By adults at least. Not by people that stick their fingers in their ears and say "nana nana boob boo I can't hear you!" when an adult says something they don't like.
Move along people, Move along
2012 was so last year
From the article Jay linked about the AP phone records...
"The Obama administration has aggressively investigated disclosures of classified information to the media and has brought six cases against people suspected of providing classified information, more than under all previous presidents combined."
Hopefully, this news piece will get its own post.
garage mahal said...
It was linked, discussed, and confirmed.
Hilarious.
Your link was utterly discredited.
You can't seem to grasp that an allegation by the Director of Greenpeace USA is not a fact.
There is no evidence, anywhere, at all, to lead one to conclude that Greenpeace was audited for political reasons.
Further, just because Greenpeace was audited doesn't mean it was the practice of the IRS at the time to audit left wing groups, merely because they were left wing.
You can't understand these things because, well, you're fucking dumb.
he weaponized IRS...
Calls for a #hashtag.
Someone needs to re-do the Debt Star with an IRS logo embedded: Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station!
Who knew "audit flag" referred to a, you know, an actual flag?
It was linked, discussed, and confirmed. By adults at least.
It was not "confirmed" by anyone.
It is hilarious to watch you pretend people responding to you, refuting your dumbass bullshit, is a "discussion"
It was ... confirmed
Please link to the IRS statement confirming they audited Greenpeace due to political influence or persuasion.
I can't wait to read all about it.
Thanks.
garage mahal said...
This is not targeting people because of their political beliefs.
Uh huh. Sure.
Where's the link that states the IRS initiated the audit themselves, based on political affiliation, as happened 2010-2012?
I'll wait.
Some stoolie ratting out the church to the IRS in a citizen complaint, sure, I'd buy that. But garage doesn't (or can't afford to) recognize that's not what's happening with Obama's IRS.
It was not "confirmed" by anyone. it.
Dude, I said adult. You aren't an adult. Obviously.
You also don't seem to be aware of what you're even responding to.
Jay asks for a confirmation from the IRS about the FBI surveilling peace groups, and accuses me of not knowing the difference between the two.
Pretty much sums up Jay right there. But he's *our* Jay.
DOJ Secretly Snagged AP Journalists’ Telephone Records
Hey kids, don't listen to those voices saying the government can't be trusted.
garage mahal said...
Jay asks for a confirmation from the IRS about the FBI surveilling peace groups
Please point to the post where I said that.
Thanks in advance.
check your 5:03 drivel
You also don't seem to be aware of what you're even responding to.
Nice projection.
I'm not the one who decides to "respond" to a thread about a 2+ year effort by the IRS to selectively audit groups based on political affiliation by suggesting Greenpeace was audited in the same way.
When your "proof" of the alleged Greenpeace political audit is destroyed, you're now reduced to absurd claims about the FBI. Which are also easily refuted.
Which is why you're now dissembling.
Secretly taking journalists' stuff? No wonder the media is starting to turn on him.
Like I said before: Potentially the most First Amendment unfriendly administration in my life time.
Not sure it makes any sense, but it seems to me that if there was any true equivalence between what happened under Obama and what happened under Bush, then the IRS would at least be mentioning that. Why would you just roll over and say Oops rather then saying yes, mistakes were made but no worse than past administrations.
Why would the IRS rely solely upon garage mahal to make this case for them.
Of course, the answer is that there is no equivalence.
garage mahal said...
check your 5:03 drivel
In other words, you're making shit up.
garage mahal said...
Jay asks for a confirmation from the IRS about the FBI surveilling peace groups
garage reveals his posts are just like his links.
Full of shit.
Perhaps the citizen making the complaint lived at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington D.C.? I mean, he's a citizen too. He can make a complaint like every other citizen.
Maybe the IRS just followed up with complaints that came through Attack Watch, another one of the administration's wonderful contributions to chilling Free Speech.
2nd time, from balfegor's (an adult)link:
Report: FBI Gave Faulty Basis for Surveillance
The FBI gave inaccurate information to Congress and the public when it claimed a possible terrorism link to justify surveilling an anti-war rally in Pittsburgh, the Justice Department's inspector general said Monday in a report on the bureau's scrutiny of domestic activist groups
Notice the dishonesty here (which is why no link was offered):
garage mahal said...
The Inspector General’s report covered a number of FBI targets following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks: an antiwar rally in Pittsburgh; a Catholic peace magazine; a Quaker activist; and members of the environmental group Greenpeace as well as of People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA
And what did the IG report conclude?
the evidence did not indicate that the FBI targeted any of the groups for investigation on the basis of their First Amendment activities."
garage is nothing more than a useful idiot.
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