Said Lillian Campbell, the grandmother of the 29-year-old victim Krystle Campbell:
“He was a snake, wiggling through the ground, and I was afraid he got away... But now I can go on with my life. I just pray tonight everything works out OK because so many people got hurt. Not just Krystle. There’s so many more. There’s enough heartache.”AND: "So lockdown is lifted because they can’t find the suspect…which allows boat guy to leave his house…and find the suspect."
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345 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 345 of 345Two low-investment assets assigned to "test the fences".
Also a good test for a military style police state response.
He is just getting some practice in until it is time for his term to run out and he wants to go the Hugo Chavez route.
He knows that somefeller and the rest will be cheering him on.
"Imagine how hard it would be for a "Mumbai-sized strike team of seasoned Chechen fighters" to get here."
Very easy - one at a time. Remember the 19-man team on 9/11/01.
They don't all come off the same plane together wearing uniforms and marching in formation.
somefeller said...
No one's saying you can't talk, Marshal. I'm just pointing out the nature of most of the people taking this as an opportunity to gripe about the police and local government in Boston, as opposed to those discussing this issue thoughtfully.
There's all kinds of thoughtful discussion of the issues, and your contributution is to whine that people dare engage in it. Why don't you go kneel your obeisance to the local apparitchik and leave those capable of independent thought to it.
Imagine how hard it would be for a "Mumbai-sized strike team of seasoned Chechen fighters" to get here.
Imagine how hard it would be, since ethnic profiling is against policy, to intercept a fresh face with a valid Russian passport and visa?
We rain visas on Saudis, who were the majority of 9-11 highjackers.
@Ritmo: The facts suggest that lifting the curfew led to finding the perp. Not ruling it out, but it doesn't sound like the authorities located him first with infrared and then called the boatowner and said "would you mind looking out there to see if things look right?" It happened the other way around. Do you contest this on the basis of fact?
If lifting the curfew played a role in him being found that in no way precludes the fact that the (AGAIN: VOLUNTARY) curfew itself helped. If there hadn't been a curfew he would have used this thing called "transportation" much less conspicuously and hid in the mountains of New Hampshire or caught a bus or hitch-hiked across the country by now - rather than have remained prone in a nearby neighbor's backyard boat. The fact that he was found upon it being lifted just means that cockroaches are best located and caught once the light comes up in an enclosed space, and not if you give them cover under which to scurry away before shining the light upon them.
I don't expect people who live in the middle of nowhere to get this.
Also a good test for a military style police state response.
The for-which I'm not advocating. I'm just playing worst-case devil's advocate because...Beslan.
Damn Garage--you will be a libertarian yet :)
Even Garage and ACLU are realizing that they overstepped here.
That is pretty amazing.
Good on them.
It's a shame, because were it not for the lockdown, I'd have little to criticize about the entire investigation, and capture. It was creative, relatively open-minded, and pretty quick with surprisingly little destruction. But the lockdown blew the whole success, and left us with a bloody trophy, from a lost battle of wills.
By using the NSA to spy on American citizens, Binney told me, the United States has created a police state with few parallels in history: “It’s better than anything that the KGB, the Stasi, or the Gestapo and SS ever had.” He compared the situation to the Weimar Republic, a brief period of liberal democracy that preceded the Nazi takeover of Germany. “We’re just waiting to turn the key,” he said. link.
Oh yes, I'm quite sure two guys with their faces splashed all over the media 24/7 could just jump on a bus and ride cross country. Nobody would notice them, and no cops would be looking for that unprecedented escape plan.
Hitchhike? Are you fucking serious?
I would not even call the cops until I ran them over with my truck first.
Anyone expecting Bostonians to be disorderly and anti-cop have never stepped foot in the city. Their opinion's as ridiculous as someone saying that Hollywood should be less shallow and Alabama less ignorant. Or Texas less violent These are just basic rules of cultural life - attempting to break them is as senseless as trying to get drunk off of fermented cheese.
Oh yes, I'm quite sure two guys with their faces splashed all over the media 24/7 could just jump on a bus and ride cross country. Nobody would notice them, and no cops would be looking for that unprecedented escape plan.
Sorry to challenge your God-given right to be an absolute and unrelenting asshole, but the last public event terrorist bomber managed to hide in the mountains of North Carolina for seven years despite being on the FBIs most-wanted list. Good thing you don't work for the FBI. You're just an amateur pundit who specializes in outsourcing and creating political dissension.
Bostonians love their time-honored marathon tradition and weren't willing to wait that long. Southerners are ok with taking forever on everything. And you're living in LA-LA Land so I guess it's ok for you to have no real connection to what's really at stake in all this.
Baron Zemo: Miranda warnings aren't a shibboleth you have to recite at a precise moment. Exceptions to the Miranda rules have always existed. While I am a proud member of the ACLU, I think they have it wrong here. But if I'm wrong and they are right, once again, you can thank the ACLU for protecting Constitutional rights, regardless of who is in office.
And Marshal, I can see I really hurt your feelings with my comments about the peanut gallery. Don't worry, it gets better.
I would not even call the cops until I ran them over with my truck first.
LOLOLOLLLOLOLOL!!!!
Hear that, Boston PD and Obama? You got yer civil liberties defender RIGHT HERE!
"once again, you can thank the ACLU for protecting Constitutional rights, regardless of who is in office"
Fair enough and well said.
It is good to note that we can't say that about you and the other Obama butt boys who will swallow anything the Jug Eared Jesus might do without a peep.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
Anyone expecting Bostonians to be disorderly and anti-cop have never stepped foot in the city
Spoken by someone who has never gone to a Yankee/Red Sox game at Fenway in a Yankee hat.
Hey, whatever makes you feel like a brave resistance fighter, Walter Mitty. I mean, Baron Zemo.
Spoken by someone who has never gone to a Yankee/Red Sox game at Fenway in a Yankee hat.
Hey! I never said they extended that courtesy to outsiders!
The other rule of cultural life in Boston is the intensity of their sports rivalries. It supercedes the other considerations. I thought that was understood as a given!
Rabel ... dogs were used in the search, and performed within their limits in a densely populated area with myriad sounds, smells, noises, and forms of transportation. With limited information I can't tell how effective they were overall.
And anything that makes you feel like the broad in "Forty Shades of Grey" when Obama puts it to you is fine with me buddy.
So Ritmo, you are suggesting right here in front of all of us, that you believe these two guys who everybody in the country knows on sight, would be able to hitchhike a few rides, or maybe take a bus to the mountains and hide, and nobody would notice them right?
You know, it would actually be a public service if you were to open up a Ritmo Terrorist School. Need some start-up money?
somefeller said...
Well, I just had a good workout and am waiting for my club sandwich to be made. And I still see no specific examples of violations of Constitutional rights from Edutcher, just assertions and babble. No surprise.
I see Mom's home as you labor in the basement.
And, of course, some phony folksy tries to duck the issue once again.
I mentioned the 9th and 4th Amendments, that seems fairly specific, but some phony folksy likes the idea he may be a gauleiter some day, so he won't even need his inflatable girl friend tonight he's so thrilled State control is at hand and that fuddy duddy old Constitution can be thrown out for good.
And it seems there are a lot of cases on the books that are thrown out because Miranda wasn't read in a timely fashion, but we're talking about State control now, so that's OK.
Then again, there were those door to door searches.
Warrants? We don't need no stinking warrants.
But who cares?
some phony folksy's kind of people are on the march.
somefeller said...
Hey, whatever makes you feel like a brave resistance fighter, Walter Mitty. I mean, Baron Zemo.
That's usually some phony folksy's schtick; especially when he showers us with bon mots like, "Sedition! Treason! Alinsky!".
He just loves playing the gay blade.
bagoh20 ... not speaking for anyone else, however, you are quite right that had this pair of dunderheads just taken their car and left town they'd have been on their way to escape. Once photos everywhere, no way without serious make overs, money and assistance from others....Weatherman style.
What seems weird to me is that it didn't seem like they wanted to get away very much...until they got shot up in the car-jacking. And you are also right that what worked this time won't next time...the play-book has changed now.
Aridog. Agree. They would have been long gone. Carjacking and letting the driver go was their blunder.
Or they could have used a stolen car.
Listen, your lack of seriousness is obvious. You're even telling me how to advise terrorists. But your problem is that you're not advising Boston PD. You haven't even been asked to. I doubt you care. You're just trying to make a phony, political point.
You don't take anything in life seriously; your own success is a bit of a fluke, really.
People who think better of their own lives aren't going to listen to a clown. So ask yourself what you're accomplishing by these masturbatory beat-downs on me.
Aridog,
Just asking. I was curious how a dense urban environment would affect the the dogs.
Looking again at the timeline, I don't think they would have had a starting point after the second brother escaped in the stolen car.
Aridog, I can only assume that either they just never really planned the after-the-bombing-part, or they expected to go back to their lives and never be identified. Both incredibly stupid mistakes.
I think the second is most likely. They were totally surprised to see their faces on TV. I don't get how they could miss that inevitability.
Or one given to them. I'm hearing all over right-wing radio that they have sympathizers everywhere.
Not everyone's as ridiculous as O.J. Simpson in his fateful get-away in the white Bronco. But we can always count on a few nuts from LA LA Land who are. And their Chechen-American counterparts.
But best not to rely on that.
I mentioned the 9th and 4th Amendments, that seems fairly specific
Just mentioning a few Amendments isn't specific. If you're going to claim Constitutional rights were violated, you need to specify the incidents and how they were violations of rights. If you want to claim that bad facts are leading to bad law, at least mention some facts.
Then again, there were those door to door searches. Warrants? We don't need no stinking warrants.
Do you have links to reports of such warrantless searches? Letting the cops in your home voluntarily doesn't constitute a warrantless search. Also, if such warrantless searches occurred, please discuss the concept of exigent circumstances and why that concept wouldn't apply in those fact-specific cases.
Blah Blah Blah, Ritmo. So do you admit your idea about hitchhiking and bus rides ("this thing called "transportation"") was incredibly stupid or are you sticking with it, Dr. Serious?
This is ridiculous. Boston PD simply didn't feel like wasting their time and fucking around after losing one in a shoot-out with these jerk-offs. If you don't like it, declare martial law and no more local control over Boston. The lockdown was voluntary. The residents had a lot of sympathy and would do whatever they could to help. And so they did. The remaining perp was caught less than 24 hours later after getting not far at all and without the commotion, cover and collateral damage possibility of other residents.
But please, please, please feel free to ignore all this just so that you can make a political point so desperate that you are willing to pose as a civil libertarian to make it. It really helps advance a cause, of some sort, in some way, in an unknown galaxy far, far away.
So do you admit your idea about hitchhiking and bus rides ("this thing called "transportation"") was incredibly stupid or are you sticking with it, Dr. Serious?
I admit that telling Boston to substitute the judgment of their own police department (after losing one) in favor of the whims of a guy who looks like one of the Beastie Boys wearing costumes and make-up in the Sabotage video is too stupid to even consider.
So sticking with it then? Got it.
Thanks for your brilliant insight. I mean that; it made me smile.
Bag O's tellin' y'all it's sabotage!
Which mustachioed Beastie would you have been, Lieutenant Bag O'?
Bag O' never got the memo: Harry Reams was not a police officer. At least not in real life.
They were standing in a crowd of people who were pointing cameras in their direction the whole time, and it never crossed their mind what that meant? It's reassuring to know that our enemy has such low recruiting standards, but still they weren't dumb enough to try hitchhiking away. Apparently, you have to read lots of books to be that dumb, but I'm not really sure what causes that.
Look Ritmo, if you don't have to shave, don't feel defensive about it. Shaving is a pain in the ass for the rest of us; you're the lucky one. I bet you have silky smooth legs.
A guy in Southern California who wears a 70's porn-style mustache without any apparent irony disbelieves that disguises are possible in America. Or the obscurity of crowds (in major cities). Or civilian collateral damage perpetrated by individuals willing to bomb randomly in hopes of causing mass casualties and killing police officers in shoot-outs.
Well, I guess that explains his own choice of appearance, at least. And maybe his own clownishness.
I bet you have silky smooth legs.
Ritmo's been known to wax Brazilian.
So Baggie, here's a question brought to just the level of seriousness you're capable of: Handlebar, Fu Manchu, Winnfield or Dali?
Ritmo, why do you assume, I'm the one in my avitar with the mustache? Any of us could point out your foolishness.
Have to agree with most who state there were no constitutional violations here. People were asked to stay inside, the governor did not declare martial law. (Which would have made the request an enforceable order)From news reports and twitter accounts, police would knock on a door, ask if everything was OK, and request to do a search. There are no reports of involuntary searches after being told "No" and numerous reports of people stating they said "No". And no one apparently was arrested or hassled for violating said request. And I find it hard to believe that 1. Everyone obeyed it and 2. That if they were hasssled, that it wouldn't already be on youtube.
Do I think that officials should have shut down a whole city in that manner for a search for 2?
No. I think, as posted before, they should have involved the PEOPLE in the search and activated the militia. A million eyes searching for something wrong in the small area they know are going to find something quicker then twnety thousand eyes not familiar with the larger area full of those small searchable areas.
I think the original Minutemen and Paul Revere would be ashamed of Boston's search methods, though like all of us, happy with the end results.
Baggie's been reduced to bashing literacy (and making use of it) in his quest to say that the Boston PD are a bunch of totalitarian poopy-pantses.
Ritmo, isn't this the point in the discussion where you should be going on lockdown?
Once again bagoh is the capitalist who employs 100 people and Ritmo is the loudmouth from his mom's basement. Who has more real-world credibility?
It's spelled "avatar". The red dots under the word let you know you've spelled it wrong. But then, you hate books (and knowledge) so there you have it.
Make sure you present these credentials upon rendering your application to the Boston PD.
What's it with rich assholes believing that they're credentialed experts on things they know nothing about. First Trump with the birth certificate, now Baggie with the police expertise. Crazy.
" police would knock on a door, ask if everything was OK, and request to do a search. There are no reports of involuntary searches after being told "No" and numerous reports of people stating they said "No"."
That must have freaked-out some Bostonians. "Dude, Dave's not here."
"It's spelled "avatar"."
German Shepherds have weak spelling skills. Forgive me.
Bag,
Alex says you should tell the Boston PD that you EMPLOY people.
And... and... you have DOGS!!!
Impressive.
Also - you live in LALA Land. So you know loads about how studio sets re-create police chase scenes.
Alex:
Baggie's waiting for the moment when he breaks down, Mel Gibson-style, and yells that he OWNS the Boston PD!
You hear that? He OWNS them!!!
That'll teach them to question what he says.
Ritmo, Some idiots can't even spell, and yet they can be successful. What happened to you, dude?
" police would knock on a door, ask if everything was OK, and request to do a search. There are no reports of involuntary searches after being told "No" and numerous reports of people stating they said "No"."
Wait a minute....they were going up to people and asking to search their houses without a warrant? And every cop didn't push the envelope and didn't go in after they were told no?
Right. That sounds very plausable.
Ritmo, Some idiots can't even spell, and yet they can be successful. What happened to you, dude?
Police make much less money than I do. Make sure you tell them, and the people of Boston, what losers you think they are.
somefeller said...
I mentioned the 9th and 4th Amendments, that seems fairly specific
Just mentioning a few Amendments isn't specific. If you're going to claim Constitutional rights were violated, you need to specify the incidents and how they were violations of rights. If you want to claim that bad facts are leading to bad law, at least mention some facts.
I mentioned the right of free access, which is almost certainly covered by the Ninth Amendment.
I also mentioned conditions. We'll hear about the abuses soon enough. right now the Lefty media, like some phony folksy, is cheerleading the takeover.
But I did mention a few, he just doesn't want to address them. There's also the shutdown of public transit and this "shelter in place" business, which is for use in bio-chemical emergencies. What if you're not at home or at work? What if you're miles away from home and need public transit to get there?
What implications are there to, "Get off the street"? I might get shot? I might get pulled over and hustled down to the precinct?
Then again, there were those door to door searches. Warrants? We don't need no stinking warrants.
Do you have links to reports of such warrantless searches?
Do you know if there were warrants issued?
The phrase door-to-door is pretty broad and I haven't heard anything about a judge being consulted.
Much like the Miranda bit.
Love to hear Insta, Althouse, Volokh, Levin, and Jacobson thrash this one out.
As it is, it'll probably be Monday before the self-congratulation is over and the real deal is addressed.
PS Don't tell me they didn't have time.
And who says they were all voluntary?
Hey I just heard that Obama has asked for a bill of attainder for these terrorists. Harry Reid said he would get right on it.
That should be A-Ok with our constitutional experts.
Ritmo, I didn't say you were a loser. I would never tell someone that. I'm compassionate. You're just still trying to find yourself. Maybe you hitchhiked away. Have you checked the bus station?
Ritmo isn't so bad. He just likes to argue and fight for his team.
That is why he is defending warrantless searches and the waiving of Miranda rights.
He doesn't really mean it. Just sayn'
I'm sure if they made a cancer-causing bioterrorism weapon you wouldn't find this all that funny.
I understand Bag. You're a powerful guy. So things are either personal to you or just something that you feel you can pronounce, dicatorially on, without actually understanding. I get it. Wealth makes you the kind of slippery dictator that previous tyrants could only dream of being.
Anyway, good thing your brain-farts are just confined to a blog. But it's obvious you lost this argument long ago anyway, even to your on-line mini-throng. They're just hoping to save you "face", at this time. And with a mustache as ridiculous as yours, who can blame them?
"Wait a minute....they were going up to people and asking to search their houses without a warrant? And every cop didn't push the envelope and didn't go in after they were told no?
Right. That sounds very plausable."
That's what the twitter feeds I've read say, and the reports of people who lived there. Until and unless we see reports coming out otherwise, that's what I'm inclined to believe. If it were coming only from MSM, I'd have a lot of doubts- but twitter and other social media had really good coverage of what was going on.
Lockdown, Ritmo, Lockdown! You're self-destructing here.
Alright, I'll stop polluting this thread with chunks of Ritmo's self esteem. It's been fun, but I gotta go back to some welding I'm doing. You break a few things and then you put some back together. A nice way to spend a sunny Saturday in LALA land.
Bago out.
Edutcher, shutting down subways is not a violation of any Constitutional rights. And you're the one talking about Fourth Amendment violations, which would entail warrantless searches that aren't justified under the sort of exceptions that every halfway knowledgable first-year law student or police officer can describe. If you claim those Constitutional rights violations occurred, you should be able to provide the evidence of such.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised to see that you think you have adequately provided support for your claims. If you actually were competent and diligent in such matters, well, your whole life would have turned out differently.
Rabel said...
Aridog ... Just asking. I was curious how a dense urban environment would affect the the dogs.
In my opinion the dense urban environment with all the commotion on top of would hinder search & apprehension dog...as you suspect. I'm weird I guess, but I am grateful no K9 dog was killed in Boston this week.
The FBI dog killed here, named "Freddy", in October 2009, a Belgian Malinois, in the line of duty. FBI dogs are good at what they do and will die trying if necessary. "Freddy" was after the last of 10 men resisting when he was shot as he took hold of the man...by the face. "Ape". another FBI dog, a Czech German Shepherd, died in New York state, last month, was shot and mortally wounded when carrying a camera toward a perpetrator when a robot couldn't get through.
In short, in my opinion, a good brave trained dog is the best thing to have along in a fight. They seldom get recognition, but the FBI established a memorial to "Freddy" and now to "Ape" as well, at Quantico, VA. I've donated to it out of respect for the dogs that can do what men sometimes cannot.
Miranda rights are a totally different issue from requests by police to keep the streets clear of cover for mass murderers.
Just sayin'.
Well people haven't started filing the lawsuits yet. Early days my friend. Early days.
Baron Zemo said...
Hey I just heard that Obama has asked for a bill of attainder for these terrorists. Harry Reid said he would get right on it.
That should be A-Ok with our constitutional experts.
Good one, Your Grace.
The media would like one for all us Tea Partiers and gun nuts and breeders and Christers.
However let me search for a point of agreement with my liberal brethren.
If the new standard is that warrantless searches and waiving of Miranda rights under the threat of the imminent destruction of innocent life by mass murderers trumps all.....I think we should bust down the door of every abortion clinic in America based on what happened in Philly.
What? That's different you say?
Yeah I figured that would be the case.
Breeder? One would have to breed children to be considered a breeder, no?
Aridog. A bloodhound would have gone right to the guy. From the car to the guy. You could probably give a bloodhound the scent two days from now and he would go from where the car had stopped to the boat. Really amazing animals. Totally different from drug sniffers.
Baron Zemo, you've shown time and again that you are utterly ignorant and willfully obtuse about basic issues of law and public policy, including Constitutional law. Perhaps you should stick to what you know, like the fine art of selling muumuus to obese women from the outer boroughs of New York.
I love you too somefeller.
Always good to hear a well reasoned argument without any personal attacks.
Stay liberal my friend.
What's wrong, Baron? You love to dish out personal attacks but can't take them apparently. And there are people here (including the proprietor of this blog, whom you also like to insult) who actually know a thing or two about the law. You should listen to them or at least attempt to respond to their points with something other than hand-waving. It's never too late to learn!
Personal insults are just fine with me buddy boy. Knock yourself out.
Law is too important to be left to the lawyers. That is why we are so fucked up in this country.
What is funny is the things that the "Lawyers" told us was so important and vital like "Miranda" warnings and search warrants can go right out the window without hearing a peep from them. They just make shit up as they go along. Just like you.
Oh and one other thing. Your mother was a hamster and your father smells like elderberries.
somefeller said...
Baron Zemo, you've shown time and again that you are utterly ignorant and willfully obtuse about basic issues of law and public policy, including Constitutional law.
There's a Constitutional right to what happened in Philly? It was criminal all around. Stop covering for murderers.
There's a Constitutional right to what happened in Philly?
No one in the world is arguing that.
Michael said...
Aridog. A bloodhound would have gone right to the guy...
Not quite, but close enough. No argument from me about Bloodhounds as search dogs. First off, they naturally scent air, water and ground...which is what lets them cross obstacles without losing a scent. My town's "Max" is the only Michigan Bloodhound K9 and he's cool as hell...deep damn gruff bark...and 130 lbs. That said, generally, Bloodhounds do not work well off leash, nor are they aggressive per se.
However, the FBI dogs are NOT "drug sniffers", they are pursuit and apprehension dogs (tactical dogs) with multiple skills...most that Bloodhounds do not have. A properly trained "tactical dog" knows to scent air, water, earth too...even if not as acute as a Bloodhound :-)
I doubt they had a bloodhound K9 in Boston, because if that had, I'm sure they'd have used it....less change of harm to innocents and more acute sense of smell. A tactical dog will work off leash (as haupthunds essentially), range far out, and make decisions on their own...and that may not be appropriate in dense urban settings.
Trust me, if you accidentally are confronted by a working tactical dog that stops just in front of you and barks, as it rears up, do-not-move. Wait for the handler. Seriously. "Bark and Hold" is the maneuver...and the dog hopes you move, not hold. Chomp.
I can't tell because I wasn't there...and neither were most of the folks commenting here today. However, no argument, under the right conditions, a bloodhound would have found the guy. But so did the helicopter with FLIR once advised.
I've had too many friends who are or were cops in a tough town to second guess success in another town.
No matter now, as Bagoh2o has said, it's a new game next time.
And...there will be a next time, sooner this time, than later. We've shown our weakness over the past 3-4 years, the scent is in the water, so to speak.
There's a Constitutional right to what happened in Philly? It was criminal all around. Stop covering for murderers.
Obviously not and that is not what I was talking about. Follow the thread.
Somefeller is telling us that to not Mirandize the suspects (causing who knows how much trouble when scumbag lawyers defend them in court) and to conduct warrantless searches and strongly suggest that citizens not pursue happiness by going outside their house during a work day is just fine and dandy with him. Nothing to see here. Move along and shut up peons.
You see he is an expert on this kind of legal beagle stuff.
but the FBI established a memorial to "Freddy" and now to "Ape" as well, at Quantico, VA.
Aridog: I've heard that military K9 handlers are more traumatized by the loss of their partners than rifle team members are by the loss.of comrades -- is that true?
No, Baron, I am not saying that. The fact that you claim I am doing so shows your level of intellectual honesty. This is why you aren't welcome at the big table with the grownups (including other conservatives) when matters of law and public policy are under discussion.
And while I would hesitate to call myself a legal expert (that's for others to decide), I have been gainfully employed as a lawyer for over 15 years and graduated from a pretty good law school. So I at least make some attempt to approach these sorts of discussions with some level of seriousness, in case others have an interest in such things. Perhaps you should try doing so.
A bloodhound would have gone right to the guy
I suspect that's where the name comes from. Did the person who said dogs were tried and failed provide a link?
furious_a said...
Aridog: I've heard that military K9 handlers are more traumatized by the loss of their partners than rifle team members are by the loss.of comrades -- is that true?
Wow. Hell of a question, but no, I'd have to say the sense of loss can be the same not greater. That is tough enough. Both the guys who fight beside you and the dog who may go before you are beloved, even if you don't know them well. Not sure that makes sense to anyone who hasn't had their focus narrowed. In a scout team, the dog is one of you. Period.
This is why you aren't welcome at the big table with the grownups (including other conservatives) when matters of law and public policy are under discussion.
LOL. Have you ever actually been invited to sit at a Stammtisch?
Oh I am sorry somefeller. I didn't realize you are a lawyer. Thank you for letting me know. Now I can safely ignore anything you say and never respond to it in any way shape or form.
Listening to lawyers like you is what is destroying our country. Thank you for letting me know so I don't have to take what you say into consideration ever again.
But so did the helicopter with FLIR once advised.
No. It didn't find him. It confirmed the citizen's observations and suspicions.
LOL. Have you ever actually been invited to sit at a Stammtisch?
Yes, all the time. Though in Texas we don't use German words for such concepts outside of Fredricksburg or New Braunfels. And I have some regular drinking buddies who are active in GOP politics (not hard to find in Houston) so in practice any get-together becomes a roundtable discussion. But no, you can't hang out with me.
somefeller said..." This is why you aren't welcome at the big table with the grownups (including other conservatives) when matters of law and public policy are under discussion."
He says, while throwing his green beans on the floor from his high chair.
Well, thanks for proving my point, Baron. And remember, Dick in the Shakespeare play wasn't a heroic character.
chickelit said...
Reference: "But so did the helicopter with FLIR once advised."
No. It didn't find him. It confirmed the citizen's observations and suspicions.
Which is what I said...see "once advised."
Thank you for being the pompous and pretentious douchenozzle that you are my friend.
You are a credit to lawyers everywhere.
somefeller said...
Edutcher, shutting down subways is not a violation of any Constitutional rights. . And you're the one talking about Fourth Amendment violations, which would entail warrantless searches that aren't justified under the sort of exceptions that every halfway knowledgable first-year law student or police officer can describe. If you claim those Constitutional rights violations occurred, you should be able to provide the evidence of such.
When one is expected to "shelter in place" for an unspecified time?
As I say, freedom of movement has always been implicitly regarded as a right in this country (the whole, "your papers, please", business) and, to expect someone to "shelter in place" however many miles from home would be an unreasonable imposition, especially with no idea of when it would end.
This "lockdown" began with an unspecified time frame. You're telling me the appellate courts would go along with searches over a huge area (city of Baaston) for an unspecified time in the hope they might turn up something?
No, I'm not buying it, I don't think the courts will when the lawsuits start (and I don't doubt they will) and it's pathetic in the extreme that you would support such an idea.
As I say, it's nice to see all of the closet Nazis come out.
My understanding of the delay of Miranda just means that what he says can not be used against him in court. That doesn't mean he can't be convicted on other evidence.
This "lockdown" began with an unspecified time frame. You're telling me the appellate courts would go along with searches over a huge area (city of Baaston) for an unspecified time in the hope they might turn up something?
No, I'm not saying that, but in any case, the lockdown was voluntary and in practice lasted only a day. Good luck getting standing in a lawsuit based on those facts, much less a victory on the merits.
The Mass. State Police have a K-9 unit, but maybe it doesn't include bloodhounds. But the Billerica police have one, and Billerica's only about 25 miles west of Boston; so at least one was available.
But maybe they don't work well in urban areas? At least that's what a guy in a 1977 article on bloodhounds written after the capture of James Earl Ray says -- because cement and asphalt don't hold scents very well since they're not porous enough.
Well don't worry...we will see some scumbag lawyer try to do that. In fact many scumbag lawyers will try it. It is what they do.
That is why lawyers are held in such high regard by the general public...right below used car salesmen and prostitutes. Wait those categories might overlap!
Nevermind.
As I say, it's nice to see all of the closet Nazis come out.
And nothing buys credibility quite like irrelevant Nazi references. But as I mentioned above, if you were different than you are now, things would be different for you than they are now.
Aridog. Agree that bloodhounds require close handling and are absolutely not aggressive when they find their mark. They would be useless to intimidate or subdue anyone.
Perhaps you should stick to what you know, like the fine art of selling muumuus to obese women from the outer boroughs of New York.
This is the sort of snotty liberal elitism that gives liberals a bad name.
The police-FBI-whoever did a pretty good job of analyzing the forensics and the videotapes. The manhunt was chaotic, partly because that's the nature of manhunts but also because the cops were tripping over each other and their massive array of equipment.
A seriously wounded suspect got outside of their perimeter from the get go. Had he not been wounded, who knows where he would be. Also they were dealing with two pretty stupid terrorists, who had no plan on how to protect themselves or get away after the attack. They just went home.
And the liberal citizens of Boston, once their interests were directly threatened, were perfectly ok with a lockdown of the entire community, secrecy, massive government armaments in their streets, not giving due process to a terrorist (no Miranda warnings), trigger happy cops. de facto martial law and all the other trappings of our militarized constabulary.
But God forbid that a citizen would want an effective weapon.
Thanks Garage but it is what it is.
And there is nobody I have insulted here more than you so I appreciate it. You see I just can't help it because being a Packers fan just makes you a big target.
Personal insults are fine by me. I think he hits edutcher below the belt but that is just me. I think it is more a lawyer thing than a liberal thing.
Ken,
If I understand Volokh (Orin Kerr), they can use his statements in court if the interrogation meets the time-limited public safety exception.
Also, no lawyer.
I may start to like this Holder guy.
This is the sort of snotty liberal elitism that gives liberals a bad name.
Maybe so, but I thought it was mildly funny and a clean hit given the target. If it's elitist, it's not a uniquely liberal type of elitism. Althouse made a similar shot recently and she is no liberal elitist.
According to a link on Drudge, so far the suspect has been speechless.
O Ritmo Segundo said...
"A guy in Southern California who wears a 70's porn-style mustache without any apparent irony disbelieves that disguises are possible in America."
The women here dig bagoh20. Seems the pornstache is working for him. Works for Tom Selleck, too. Don't be a stache-hater, it is not seemly.
"He is just getting some practice in until it is time for his term to run out and he wants to go the Hugo Chavez route."
If you're referring to Obama, he in no way can or ever will be compared with Hugo Chavez. For all his (real as opposed to exaggerated boogie boogie man) faults, Chavez made enemies of the plutocrats and elites in Venezuela because he did what Obama has insinuated to his credible supporters he would do (as a ploy to win office): establish policies that would do more for the poor and hungry, as opposed to favoring the wealthy.
Obama's supporters look at the plutocrats' servant and they see him as a friend of the poor and working class; Obama's enemies look at this same plutocrats' servant and see him as the rabid heir of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, et al.
Neither perception, of course, is accurate in the least.
Mass media propaganda is thus shown to be the great rapist of truth, the toxic cloud that conceals from the public what crimes are committed against us by those who purport to serve us, and what criminals they are whose lies we so hungrily devour.
Maybe so, but I thought it was mildly funny and a clean hit given the target.
In one way we're alike, somefehler: we laugh at our own jokes--often alone.
Chickelit, why are you speaking to Somefeller in German?
Blogger ken in sc said...
"My understanding of the delay of Miranda just means that what he says can not be used against him in court. That doesn't mean he can't be convicted on other evidence."
Uh, no. By referring to the special Miranda exception they mean exactly what they say: it is an exception to Miranda. It is Miranda that renders statements made by suspects who have not been read their righs inadmissable in court.
Anything this guy says to the authorities without his being read his Miranda rights can and will be admitted into evidence against him in any eventual legal proceeding against him.
That was a fair shot and I have no complaints.
In fact the Nutty Perfessor has often exhibited her disdain and contempt for my customers in various posts and threads. It is one of her favorite topics. So somefeller fits right in with his fellow lawyer in all respects.
It is all part of playing in the NFL. No harm and no foul.
But saying that the Nutty Perfessor is not an elitist! Now that's some funny shit right there.
somefeller said...
This "lockdown" began with an unspecified time frame. You're telling me the appellate courts would go along with searches over a huge area (city of Baaston) for an unspecified time in the hope they might turn up something?
No, I'm not saying that, but in any case, the lockdown was voluntary and in practice lasted only a day. Good luck getting standing in a lawsuit based on those facts, much less a victory on the merits.
In practice doesn't mean a damn.
Fact is, this was the imposition of a police state and how "voluntary" it was remains to be seen and what kinds of pressure were put on people as well. Add to that the fact the Courts invent and destroy rights all the time and we're still in freefall.
And, yes, apparently, the Miranda thing is going to be an issue.
As I say, it's nice to see all of the closet Nazis come out.
And nothing buys credibility quite like irrelevant Nazi references. But as I mentioned above, if you were different than you are now, things would be different for you than they are now
Creation of a police state not unlike that in Occupied Europe for an unspecified time?
Police troops in battle gear with armored personnel carriers in tow?
I'd say it's very relevant, but I can understand some phony folksy being just a little dismayed about having outed himself so clumsily.
This is the sort of snotty liberal elitism that gives liberals a bad name.
Maybe so, but I thought it was mildly funny and a clean hit given the target. If it's elitist, it's not a uniquely liberal type of elitism. Althouse made a similar shot recently and she is no liberal elitist.
She also called said lockdown "creepy". And, while some here have called her a liberal elitist, she's a real bear on the subject of Constitutional rights, including the possiblity as well as the reality.
bagoh20 wrote:
Ritmo, why do you assume, I'm the one in my avitar with the mustache? Any of us could point out your foolishness.
I always assumed Ritmo looked exactly like Judge Rheinhold from the breakfast Club, trenchcoat, sneer and all. Are you telling me that Ritmo isn't Judge Reinhold?
bagoh20 wrote:
Ritmo, why do you assume, I'm the one in my avitar with the mustache? Any of us could point out your foolishness.
I always assumed Ritmo looked exactly like Judge Rheinhold from the breakfast Club, trenchcoat, sneer and all. Are you telling me that Ritmo isn't Judge Reinhold?
@Inga: I'm just ribbing him--for your pleasure.
Really? Well, no I'm not made from somefeller's rib, if that's what you're thinking.
Be glad of that.
Yet you talk to serpents.
In fact the Nutty Perfessor has often exhibited her disdain and contempt for my customers in various posts and threads. It is one of her favorite topics. So somefeller fits right in with his fellow lawyer in all respects.
So....the professor and the lawyer never taught or represented a plus size woman before? Would they reject a plus size woman as a student or as a client? Hate to over analyze a joke here, but I don't get what the dig is supposed to be.
"Yet you talk to serpents."
4/20/13, 7:27 PM
LOL, well actually that's exactly what I'm doing in my avatar, I'm asking for the secrets to total control over men;)
Where did you hide Shouting Thomas' body?
In my apple orchard.
Aridog - thanks for bringing some depth to this discussion.
"Aridog - thanks for bringing some depth to this discussion.
Agreed, but when will it be safe to discuss Inga's panties again.
On a related matter, Am I the only guy in here who will admit that they secretly wish they could wear a muumuu around the house - maybe in an animal print?
A muumuu would be the ideal thing to wear at a keg party for obvious reasons of convenience. That's what I'm talking about.
I'm also shocked that garage has found sanity on this.
I'm also shocked that garage has found sanity on this.
Me too. Next he'll be invited to sit at the table with the adults.
Knowing what little I do about Garage's lifestyle, I'm surprised he's a lefty at all. I can only assume it's a paid position.
Achilles .... what is the likely hood either brother would have been detained or captured if they could have just mingled in a weekday crowd and left town?
The 19 year-old went to a local party on Wednesday night.
Had they any brains, they would've left town Monday night.
Bostonians and their police are such little babies. They should be glad to have so many "big brothers" from every other part of the country willing to step in, ignore their local wishes and tell them how to conduct a manhunt in heavily populated urban environs. Good to have such coercion on hand from people who can't tell the difference between a request and an order.
While bloodhounds are the best of the best and would have led cops straight to the guy two days or more in on his scent trail...other dog breeds are more than up to the task.
Especially for tracking prey leaking blood and "distress biochemical odorants" all along the trail. It is what canines do best. The core of their evolutionary success...ability to sniff out and track wounded, weak, or newborn animals in the herd or separated from the herd, even before they see them.
"the last public event terrorist bomber managed to hide in the mountains of North Carolina for seven years despite being on the FBIs most-wanted list. Good thing you don't work for the FBI. You're just an amateur pundit who specializes in outsourcing and creating political dissension. "
It's a good thing stupidity isn't transmissible via the internet. Where was his picture dope ?
"...just go in and scoop him up.""..."
Really? I saw a photograph that showed him climbing out of the boat in surrender. Ad a quote to supprt it...
wrf? Is there nothing true in the Media or the internet?
"...just go in and scoop him up.""..."
Really? I saw a photograph that showed him climbing out of the boat in surrender. Ad a quote to supprt it...
wrf? Is there nothing true in the Media or the internet?
Garage has always been a civil libertarian, for the most part. He's also not a gun control advocate.
He's just partial to the government/union complex.
I lived in Cambridge for awhile. That is a densely populated area and a terrorist with the means and desire to do terrible damage (which these brothers showed they had) could easily do it there. The lockdown made sense.
somefeller: What are you talking about? I used to live on Norfolk Street. It's detached triple-deckers plus a big brick building or two. Those guys weren't going to do any more damage there with pressure cooker bombs than they could at a 7-11 anywhere else in the USA.
Thanks, Aridog.
Where was his picture dope ?
Right here, you stupid fucking asshole jerk-off waste of sperm.
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