Althouse: "Landowning societies all over the world have faced an excess of men at one point or another and have dealt with this..."

February 1, 2013

"Landowning societies all over the world have faced an excess of men at one point or another and have dealt with this..."

"... by sending these men to the priesthood, to fight in wars, or to explore or make a name for themselves [elsewhere]... It is clear that these countries will have to do something with all of the excess men, but polyandry will probably not occur as a widespread solution."

Polyandry — a kinder, gentler answer to the problem of too many men.

88 comments:

mccullough said...: I'm picturing three husbands on the couch watching the Super Bowl while their wife fetches beer and they all complain to each other how their wife never wants to have sex.; 2/1/13, 12:06 PM
kentuckyliz said...: They do it in Mongolia to keep population down to match the available resources.

I know some people in polyandrous households. One woman with two men.; 2/1/13, 12:06 PM
Scott said...: So polyandry will resolve China's "demographic nightmare," caused by the country's one-child policy and the tendency of Chinese couples to abort female fetuses?; 2/1/13, 12:08 PM
Bob Ellison said...: Isn't "polyandry" a synonym for "prostitution"?; 2/1/13, 12:09 PM
Paul said...: "Polyandry — a kinder, gentler answer to the problem of too many men."

Nah.. just rubber dolls.

But what will happen is WAR. War, Revolution, famine, death. Death by the millions.

Face it, China and their great Communist leaders, have screwed the pooch and will pay a very heavy price in the years to come.; 2/1/13, 12:12 PM
Anonymous said...: I'm picturing broken furniture and blood on the carpet, after a fight over hurt feelings because the wife wanted to spend a second night in hubby number three's bedroom.

But in reality wifey wouldn't look so good after multiple children and hard work, taking care of a houseful of men and their offspring.; 2/1/13, 12:12 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe Chinese men will come to America and buy a wife. Or mail order one.; 2/1/13, 12:14 PM
Levi Starks said...: "landowning Societies"

I thought communism fixed that part.; 2/1/13, 12:16 PM
Eric the Fruit Bat said...: We already have that in this country, except for the marriage part.; 2/1/13, 12:16 PM
kentuckyliz said...: Bob, you marry and/or live in commitment with your prostitutes?

How odd. I thought they were being paid to shut up and go away.; 2/1/13, 12:20 PM
William said...: If women could overcome their puritanical feelings about bukkake, there's a way of making this work.; 2/1/13, 12:25 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/1/13, 12:25 PM
Sorun said...: There a surpluses of unattached Asian men and black women. Do the math.; 2/1/13, 12:28 PM
mccullough said...: Sorun,

Small dick, big ass is the math.; 2/1/13, 12:31 PM
Henry said...: I don't think that priesthood, wars, or adventuring are identified as a way to keep men from wanting sex. It is a way to keep them from wanting land.; 2/1/13, 12:34 PM
Scott M said...: ...hence the argument for Mars and Lunar colonies.

What we need is a convenient alien invasion. If only a Nobel-winning economist would call for one...; 2/1/13, 12:40 PM
Methadras said...: China is going to have a serious problem on it's hands.; 2/1/13, 12:44 PM
traditionalguy said...: The New Jersey Senator has willingly traveled down to the Dominican Republic to leave the 14 year old New Jersey girls for the young men of New Jersey.; 2/1/13, 12:46 PM
deborah said...: D. PEDRO.
Will you have me, lady?

BEAT.
No, my lord, unless I might have another for working-days. Your Grace is too costly to wear every day. But I beseech your Grace pardon me, I was born to speak all mirth and no matter.

D. PEDRO.
Your silence most offends me, and to be merry best becomes you, for out a’ question, you were born in a merry hour.

BEAT.
No, sure, my lord, my mother cried, but then there was a star danc’d, and under that was I born. Cousins, God give you joy!; 2/1/13, 12:46 PM
Anonymous said...: De facto polygamy is quite common in America, especially at either end of the socioeconomic spectrum: the ghetto gangbanger with his stable of ho's, or the married CEO with a mistress. But de facto polyandry? If it exists at all it's extremely uncommon.

Peter; 2/1/13, 12:49 PM
deborah said...: "China is going to have a serious problem on it's hands."

Russia needs people, China needs water and women. It's a natural, I tells ya. Besides, think of the genetic blend...; 2/1/13, 12:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Henry has it right. It's a land issue, not a female issue. In those societies, women didn't vanish. In fact many of them were constucted with multiple wives. Like herds in the wild, the alpha male breeds and the betas are always looking in from the bushes.; 2/1/13, 12:51 PM
chickelit said...: Inga said...
I'm picturing broken furniture and blood on the carpet, after a fight over hurt feelings because the wife wanted to spend a second night in hubby number three's bedroom.

But in reality wifey wouldn't look so good after multiple children and hard work, taking care of a houseful of men and their offspring.

I'm still picturing how clean and tidy the trenches would be if women served in combat.; 2/1/13, 12:54 PM
Sorun said...: TV commercials that show mixed-race couples usually show white men w/Asian women or black men w/white or Latin women.

They should be edgier: Asian men and black women. Let's encourage it.; 2/1/13, 12:56 PM
chickelit said...: Why Men Are The Disposable Sex; 2/1/13, 12:57 PM
Sorun said...: "I'm still picturing how clean and tidy the trenches would be if women served in combat."

Clean and tidy and smelling like a tuna boat.; 2/1/13, 12:59 PM
Robert Cook said...: "Face it, China and their great Communist leaders, have screwed the pooch and will pay a very heavy price in the years to come."

What, specifically, do you refer to? If you refer to Chinese couples aborting female fetuses in favor of having male babies, this is the fault of the private decisions of the respective couples.; 2/1/13, 12:59 PM
Robert Cook said...: "If women could overcome their puritanical feelings about bukkake...."

I doubt any aversion to bukkake is puritanical in nature but more likely a matter of being fastidious in matters of personal cleanliness.; 2/1/13, 1:05 PM
bagoh20 said...: You'll notice that nobody considers it a shortage of women. Girls are one thing, but women?; 2/1/13, 1:05 PM
chickelit said...: I doubt any aversion to bukkake is puritanical in nature but more likely a matter of being fastidious in matters of personal cleanliness.

Face it -- you're just confirming what I told Inga.; 2/1/13, 1:06 PM
Sofa King said...: What, specifically, do you refer to? If you refer to Chinese couples aborting female fetuses in favor of having male babies, this is the fault of the private decisions of the respective couples.

Are you for real?; 2/1/13, 1:14 PM
Anonymous said...: There is an active component of US society that practices polyandry. While not currently recognized by marriage law, there seems to be no limit given current directions in recognizing gay marriage. All non-traditional groupings like this will wish to benefit from the legal, financial, and tax benefits of marriage.; 2/1/13, 1:16 PM
Anonymous said...: While they certainly exist, I don't recall ever seeing an Asian male/black female couple, not once. Black male/Asian female couples, in contrast, are an increasingly common sight.

Peter; 2/1/13, 1:18 PM
Scott M said...: I'm still picturing how clean and tidy the trenches would be if women served in combat.

They're already clean and tidy. Gays have been serving for years. Nobody asks how the trench got clean and nobody tells.; 2/1/13, 1:18 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Are you for real?"

Random phrase generating program stuck in an Anti-America, counterintuitive loop.; 2/1/13, 1:18 PM
test said...: Robert Cook said...
If you refer to Chinese couples aborting female fetuses in favor of having male babies, this is the fault of the private decisions of the respective couples.

I'm sure none of those choices are a direct result of the government's one child policy. It's astonishing what the left can convince itself of, as long as it helps the narrative.; 2/1/13, 1:23 PM
Anonymous said...: It is very doubtful that we'll ever see polyandry in American society for the simple reason that jealously works differently among men and women. It is not unheard-of for two or more women to be willing to share a man, if he is sufficiently Alpha, but there's no way in creation that two or more men would share a woman even if she's a solid 10. Men are just too jealous.

Peter; 2/1/13, 1:25 PM
furious_a said...: The 'One-Child' Policy — the root cause of China's problem of too many men.

There, fixed it for you.; 2/1/13, 1:26 PM
test said...: The author posits this as some huge revelation. But in truth she notes a few minor ocurrences of no particular import. Maybe she feels the dearth of historical polyandry examples has retarded her fight against the Patriarchy but I don't see how anything she notes changes anyone's understanding of anything. As you can see from the first few reactions it seems to be pop-culture "science".; 2/1/13, 1:35 PM
Paul said...: Robert Cook "What, specifically, do you refer to? If you refer to Chinese couples aborting female fetuses in favor of having male babies, this is the fault of the private decisions of the respective couples."

The leaders KNEW people prefered male children to have a heir. Well known fact. And the leaders ingored it. Yes it was their fault Robert. Sort sighted fault.; 2/1/13, 1:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Robert Cook, God Love him, doesn't speak for all of us on the left, neither do I. Of course it's the fault of the one child policy and the traditional, cultural preference for male offspring.; 2/1/13, 1:43 PM
DADvocate said...: I say we send them to explore the Antartic in Bermuda shorts and flip-flops. Ugh. Men in shorts.; 2/1/13, 1:49 PM
test said...: Inga said...
Robert Cook, God Love him, doesn't speak for all of us on the left, neither do I

The left has clearly established that criticizing political movements for the comments of their most extreme members is appropriate. Sucks doesn't it.; 2/1/13, 1:53 PM
Strelnikov said...: All I know about polyandry I learned from "Paint Your Wagon".; 2/1/13, 1:54 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: At first glance, the title seemed to refer to "Lawnmowing" societies, so I was puzzled by the comments.

Now, I've got it right! It's not about "lawnmowing!"; 2/1/13, 1:58 PM
edutcher said...: Actually, starting wars of conquest is how they deal with it.

Polyandry is the minority opinion.

Bob Ellison said...

Isn't "polyandry" a synonym for "prostitution"?

No, gang bang.

Inga said...

Robert Cook, God Love him, doesn't speak for all of us on the left, neither do I

The She-Wolf of the SS talks out of all sides of his/her/its mouth and, yes, really does speak what the current Lefty talking points are.

Cook, whatever his faults and illusions, is an honest man. He calls 'em like he sees 'em.; 2/1/13, 1:58 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Lawnmowing societies could also easily lead to polyandry.

Having two or three husbands to mow the lawn could solve a lot of problems.

That could leave somebody free (or two somebodys) to screw the wife.; 2/1/13, 2:02 PM
Known Unknown said...: If women could overcome their puritanical feelings about bukkake, there's a way of making this work.

Japanese schoolgirls are not too far away!; 2/1/13, 2:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Edutcher, do you not realize that calling me a nazi makes you sound every bit as much of a bigot as Whores, when he calls black Americans n*****s? I was born in Austria, that does not make me a nazi.

This is the second time I've told you this, the first time your comment was deleted by Meade, hopefully he will delete you once again. Calling me a nazi will only make sure that the next time Althouse slaps you down for comparing her to " the blond", I will rub your nose in it even more than I did the last time.; 2/1/13, 2:13 PM
furious_a said...: That poor, Chinese polyandrous wife, having to wait hand-and-foot on two or more mother-in-laws.; 2/1/13, 2:14 PM
Smilin' Jack said...: In all species except the social insects reproduction is finely tuned to result in equal numbers of males and females of reproductive age. For example, boys have slightly higher infant mortality than girls, so slightly more boys are born. When a society has an excess of men, it is almost always because that society practices female infanticide.; 2/1/13, 2:16 PM
TMink said...: Too many men? Send them to the wall where they can protect us and wear black.

Winter is coming.

Trey; 2/1/13, 2:36 PM
TMink said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/1/13, 2:37 PM
Hazy Dave said...: If only there were some nation filled with big-hearted people eager to adopt the unwanted Asian baby girls, raise them up and educate them, and leave them in debt to a country overpopulated with young Asian men.; 2/1/13, 2:38 PM
Big Mike said...: @edutcher, Inga calls it as she sees it. IMAO she calls it wrong, but she does call it as she sees it.

As for me, I think that India and China, both of which have used abortion for sex selection and consequently have a substantial excess of males over females, are someday going to war. It's the historical reality.

I just hope it's with each other.; 2/1/13, 2:39 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: War, and probably adventuring, are very natural ways of handling excess males. The thing about war is that it is marriage that really settles males down, and if they don't, or cannot do so until later in life, the excess tend to run in juvenile packs. And, the inherent violence there is part of the reason that there is a predisposition to utilize the excess males in conquest.

I really do expect there to be a major fight between China and either Russia (for Siberia) or India (because of their shared excess male problem) in our lifetimes. I think the big thing that is keeping the lid on right now are nuclear weapons. All three have them, and Russia still has a lot more than China does, though their nuclear arsenal is aging, probably a lot worse than ours is. Of course, Russia could ship its excess females east to Siberia to hook up with some of the excess Chinese males, but that would require the illegal immigration problem that would result, and what happens when there are more Chinese from the PRC in Siberia than anyone else? While nice on the surface, I suspect the Ruskies think that solution much too dangerous.; 2/1/13, 2:42 PM
edutcher said...: Inga said...

Edutcher, do you not realize that calling me a nazi makes you sound every bit as much of a bigot as Whores, when he calls black Americans n*****s? I was born in Austria, that does not make me a nazi.

Try again, sweetie. Alex gave you that handle for all the gung ho noises you made about women in combat.

As for Austria, I don't know where you came from (and I dassent guess), but I know enough to know there were Nazis all over Europe (Quisling, Mussert, Laval, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the duke and Duchess of Windsor). Austria just gave birth to the best-known.

As far as I'm concerned, you're just another small c communist like the rest of the trolls. The only thing that's given you that NSDAP flavor is when you say you couldn't criticize the SS for marching people into the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Spare me the faux outrage.; 2/1/13, 2:45 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: If only there were some nation filled with big-hearted people eager to adopt the unwanted Asian baby girls, raise them up and educate them, and leave them in debt to a country overpopulated with young Asian men.

I think that the solution would be to buy them at birth, then sell them back to the Chinese males at maturity. And, yes, relax the one-child policy for those selling their daughters in such a way. Or, maybe sell them at birth into marriage when they become of marriageable age, with the sale price more than compensating for the cost of raising them. Life insurance on the future brides could be included to protect the expected groom's family from loss of their investment. Of course, the basic problem there is that much of the Chinese population is still doing subsistence farming, and cannot afford such a long term investment, which is why it would likely require some sort of outside funding, either from within China, or by Western Imperialists.; 2/1/13, 2:49 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: As for Austria, I don't know where you came from (and I dassent guess), but I know enough to know there were Nazis all over Europe (Quisling, Mussert, Laval, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the duke and Duchess of Windsor). Austria just gave birth to the best-known.

But, but, but. The Sound of Music was about patriotic Austrians escaping from the tentacles of Nazism.; 2/1/13, 2:51 PM
Sorun said...: A ground war between China and India would probably take care of the excess. Neither country knows how to fight a war in a foreign land.; 2/1/13, 3:01 PM
Glen Filthie said...: Dream on girls.

This is the problem with women and their beta male liberals: they don't understand either men OR women and end up inventing or embracing stipidity like trannies and homosexuals.

Excess men will not go into the clergy - the liberals have pretty much done a number on religion.

That leaves war.

The surplus males will be killed off en masse, and the survivors will have their pick of females. The law of the jungle and the reality of the human animal trumps the warm fuzzy misconceptions of the modern liberal mind every time.; 2/1/13, 3:02 PM
Anonymous said...: No Edutcher, Alex may have said it once, when Baron Zemo started using it after I posted a comment about being born in Austria. You are being disingenuous at best and a liar at worst. A bigoted liar I would venture to guess.

Whores isn't ashamed of his bigotry, why are you? You're no better than he is, but you are more cowardly.

And FYI, my ancestors haven't been in Germany since 1720, I am not Austrian, I was born in a displaced persons camp there. My relatives are Donauschwaben which is ethnic Germans that lived in Hungary, Yugoslvia and Romania since the early 1700's.; 2/1/13, 3:05 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/1/13, 3:11 PM
Alex said...: edutcher - right on brother!; 2/1/13, 3:14 PM
Alex said...: Inga, just piss off or make me a sammich woman.; 2/1/13, 3:15 PM
Anonymous said...: "As far as I'm concerned, you're just another small c communist like the rest of the trolls. The only thing that's given you that NSDAP flavor is when you say you couldn't criticize the SS for marching people into the gas chambers at Auschwitz."

2/1/13, 2:45 PM

Edutcher, you have repeated that lie several times now, if you cannot produce the comment that you claim I made then you are more despicable than I previously thought.

I married a Jewish man and my 4 children are half Jewish, so to attribute such a statment to myself is bizarre to say the least.

My apologies to the commenters here for veering from the topic.; 2/1/13, 3:16 PM
Alex said...: "my best friends are Jews"....; 2/1/13, 3:17 PM
test said...: Inga said...
You are being disingenuous at best and a liar at worst

So that would be like you claiming there's a tax credit for offshoring jobs. But I agree when someone finds themselves in a group including you it's not a good sign.; 2/1/13, 3:21 PM
Balfegor said...: The whole article seems kind of weirdly skewed possibly because of the sources she's talking two. She writes:

Then subsequent scholars mis-repeated Murdock's remark; polyandry went from being understood as "rarely culturally favored" to "rarely permitted." Thus mating diversity that was known to exist became relatively invisible in the big story told by anthropology about human mating.

But of course, it clearly wasn't invisible because right up front, she characterises the usual narrative as:

While we can find a cluster of roughly two dozen societies on the Tibetan plateau in which polyandry exists as a recognized form of mating, those societies count as anomalous within humankind.

Nothing else she says in the article suggests that this is in any way wrong. It's not like she's pointing to widespread evidence of polyandry -- all her named examples are tiny, marginal populations (Yanomami = ~20,000 people; Bari/Motilone = ~5,400 people). It's just that, while still rare, polyandry is slightly less rare than was traditionally believed.

It's also not difficult to see why this kind of arrangement would be more common in such tiny, isolated populations than it would be in large modern populations. Marriage market is small enough that everyone has total visibility, and there are very few free partners available.

It's not like a larger marriage market (e.g. China or India) where there's always a huge number of people who are available at any given moment, even if some participants are ultimately unsuccessful in pairing off because of the gender imbalance.; 2/1/13, 3:26 PM
Balfegor said...: Re: Bruce Hayden:

War, and probably adventuring, are very natural ways of handling excess males. The thing about war is that it is marriage that really settles males down, and if they don't, or cannot do so until later in life, the excess tend to run in juvenile packs.

Well, does the war have to be a real war? How about they just take out that pent-up aggression in videogame wars?; 2/1/13, 3:31 PM
gerry said...: Ain't abortion great?; 2/1/13, 3:42 PM
edutcher said...: Inga said...

As far as I'm concerned, you're just another small c communist like the rest of the trolls. The only thing that's given you that NSDAP flavor is when you say you couldn't criticize the SS for marching people into the gas chambers at Auschwitz.

Edutcher, you have repeated that lie several times now, if you cannot produce the comment that you claim I made then you are more despicable than I previously thought.

I married a Jewish man and my 4 children are half Jewish, so to attribute such a statment to myself is bizarre to say the least.

My apologies to the commenters here for veering from the topic.

You're the liar and we both know it, having made the comment in one of your flights to excuse whatever Lefty outrage you were defending that day on the grounds of who are we to judge.

Unlike you and your alter egos/other trolls (however many they each may be), I don't go around copying every word of anybody with whom I disagree (I do have a life), so I'll just let that one sit where it is, but, here and now, like your previous incarnations, I'll say anybody who believes a word you say is being taken for a ride.; 2/1/13, 3:42 PM
Big Mike said...: Well, does the war have to be a real war? How about they just take out that pent-up aggression in videogame wars?

Well, Balfegor, men have been going to war for women since the days when Troy was still standing.; 2/1/13, 3:46 PM
furious_a said...: Inga: My apologies to the commenters here for veering from the topic.

Looks like Inga snuck by the TSA screeners again -- they'll need to re-calibrate their bullsh*t detectors.; 2/1/13, 3:53 PM
Known Unknown said...: Could they just ship them to our urban centers to replenish the men lost in the Drug War?; 2/1/13, 3:57 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/1/13, 4:06 PM
Alex said...: Inga - there is an easy solution, just GTFO.; 2/1/13, 4:07 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 2/1/13, 4:08 PM
Anonymous said...: So calling commenters who you disagree with nazi is accepted and condoned?

Nazi, Communist,Facist, sheesh, make up your minds. The Stupid Party is alive and well.; 2/1/13, 4:15 PM
Balfegor said...: Re: Big Mike:

How about a virtual war for virtual women?; 2/1/13, 4:17 PM
furious_a said...: ...by sending these men to...fight in wars, or to explore or make a name for themselves [elsewhere]...

So the Crusades and the Age of Exploration were because of Three Brides for Seven Brothers, not because of the Muslim tide at Christendom's borders?; 2/1/13, 4:21 PM
test said...: Inga's begging for friends again.

So calling commenters who you disagree with nazi is accepted and condoned?

Her whining is very strange. Faux outrage when she's called a Nazi. But then she believes the religious right intends to force most women into sexual slavery and the rest into second class status. Maybe Nazis are marginally worse but they seem in the same class.; 2/1/13, 4:25 PM
TMink said...: I have always thought that calling someone you disagree with a nazi was about as impressive as calling them a racist.

But then I am just an evangelical.

Trey 8); 2/1/13, 5:00 PM
Douglas B. Levene said...: Is there anyplace in the world today where polyandry is still common aside from Ladakh and Zanskar?; 2/1/13, 5:17 PM
William said...: I could handle polyandry provided the other husband was older and uglier. If that's too high a bar, I would also accept another husband with a history of radical surgery for prostate cancer. Besides bukkake, there's ways to make this work but you have to think outside the box.; 2/1/13, 5:49 PM
Known Unknown said...: You could just call her an owezara.; 2/1/13, 6:21 PM
ken in tx said...: Excuse me for being a wet blanket, but what society in history has ever had an excess of men? War and conflict and the natural risk taking attitude of males has always led to the over abundance of women. Polygamy, wife barter, temple prostitution, and dowries, have been the results in many societies. When there are too many women, you have to pay men to marry them.

The Chinese are on new ground.

I hope they don't choose the traditional answer--war.; 2/1/13, 8:21 PM
Achilles said...: There are too many men why? And we want government in control of our health care why? Central Planning always fails. But it seems history will continue to repeat itself.; 2/2/13, 4:11 AM

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