October 3, 2012
Who won?
ADDED: Oh, well, Obama is coming to Madison, into the arms of those who love him. There's the big outdoor rally tomorrow. (But look out, there's a 50% chance of rain... thunderstorms.)
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236 comments:
1 – 200 of 236 Newer› Newest»Ann, you got too many threads open!
Rather astonishing number of votes for Romney, even for a bunch of Althouse hillbillies.
I won. I didn't watch.
Romney won. But I confess to being partisan.
Obama shellacked Romney.
Obama will be on Mt. Rushmore.
Just ask Rachael Maddow, Chris Matthews, Nate Silver.
We will treat Romney as an INCUMBENT. We will want specifics on every-word he has.
We will treat Obama as a challenger. We will simply expect that his specifics are not relevant or needed.
We will shellacked Romney.
Heh, indeed. -CP
America's Politico said...
Obama shellacked Romney.
Obama will be on Mt. Rushmore.
Just ask Rachael Maddow, Chris Matthews, Nate Silver.
10/3/12 10:59 PM
Lock in your lease for the pizzeria asap. And don't forget to have good garlic roles, good chianti and a gavi di gave for a white and don't forgot the cannoli's junior. Lets us know when the opening is and the location and good luck to you!
When the knob polishers of NBC, CBS, ABC, and CNN all say Romney won, then that means Romney crushed the jug earred surrender monkey.
@Tyroone
We got AP to do satire buddy...try some other shtick.
50% chance of rain? Time to move the rally to a smaller indoor venue.
What we saw was 3 1/2 years of Obama being surrounded by Yes men (& women).
Everyone who could challenge him (e.g. Rahm Emanuel) is either gone or silenced. Almost no press conferences & a fawning press when he does have one.
Obama just doesn't know what to do now when someone gets up in his grill.
Andrew Sullivan
10.31 pm. Look: you know how much I love the guy, and you know how much of a high information viewer I am, and I can see the logic of some of Obama's meandering, weak, professorial arguments. But this was a disaster for the president for the key people he needs to reach, and his effete, wonkish lectures may have jolted a lot of independents into giving Romney a second look.
Obama looked tired, even bored; he kept looking down; he had no crisp statements of passion or argument; he wasn't there. He was entirely defensive, which may have been the strategy. But it was the wrong strategy. At the wrong moment.
The person with authority on that stage was Romney - offered it by one of the lamest moderators ever, and seized with relish. This was Romney the salesman. And my gut tells me he sold a few voters on a change tonight. It's beyond depressing. But it's true.
"What we saw was 3 1/2 years of Obama being surrounded by Yes men (& women)."
I agree. The shortest career in the world is to be the guy who disagrees with Obama. After all, he's the smartest guy in the room.
I thought Romney was going to follow the Bush one debate plan.
(But look out, there's a 50% chance of rain... thunderstorms.
The last thing Obama wants to hear is another thunderstorm.
Rain gear.
Ace of Spades..
Here is your October surprise.. The emperor has no clothes.
Cancellation consolation?
He's going to Madison naked?! Now that's a story.
I think AP voted 4 times
"Obama looks like a kid trying to get away with coming home high #noeyecontact". My 19 year old son's tweet during the debate.
Man, I sure hope Rush doesn't play any clips from this debate tomorrow...at least not more than once.
So the wheels fell off Obama's wagon. Big deal.
So he stood like a girl, big deal.
So he kept looking down, big deal.
So he had no ideas to offer, big deal.
BUT HE GOT BIN LADEN!
And it's all Bush's fault!
For undecideds (Althouse), tonight was like getting a tutor so you could catch up with the class before the big test. Doesn't mean you will pass, but the help is there if you apply yourself...
I'm going to go to bed now in this short interval where it feels like there is justice in the political world.
"Obama looks like a kid trying to get away with coming home high #noeyecontact".
He nailed it.
Obama kept looking down and to Lehrer for help with the sunami coming from his right.
I voted for Obama clearly won. He is the CHallenger. He needs a break.
Romney is an INCUMBENT. Unless he can show the proof of every-thing. He will be shellacked.
Obama won, hands down. Every-one who is some-one says so.
Another bad debate performance like this one by Obama and game over, if this doesn't do it. Then we are going to see a cascading electorate to Romney and a landslide.
Man, I sure hope Rush doesn't play any clips from this debate tomorrow...at least not more than once.
Hold your fire.. size fire!
I was doing my homework so I missed the whole thing.
Ok ok.. one more.
The word from the White House is that Obama will have more flexibility in the second debate.
“Here is your October surprise.. The emperor has no clothes.”
And was there ever a time when such a fact was revealed so glaringly, to so many people, all at once?
I was doing my homework so I missed the whole thing.
It was like another Romney took over and mopped the floor with Obama.
AP: Right. 900 people voted in AA's poll: 8 thought O won.
Remember how despots like Sadaam or countries like the USSR seem so strong? And then suddenly something breaks and people realize they really aren’t that powerful and they quickly fall?
We may have seen that with Obama tonight. Up until now, people were afraid to think about taking on Obama. Now he looks weak.
After tonight Obama’s image and power base could crumble fast like the old Soviet Union. This was big.
I dont know about you Althouse... but it appears Romney wants to be president..
Romney got that fire in the belly the old timers talk about.
If Obama wins, I hope Putin, the Chinese, and the mullahs weren't watching tonight. Although I think they already knew what many just learned. Who do you think they are rooting for?
Okay, one more thing. My husband and some friends were watching A Face in the Crowd during the debate. My texts about the debate outcome came through just as Lonesome Rhodes was headed down in the elevator. Heh.
(Not that Obama is vile like Lonesome Rhodes, only that they are similarly media creations.)
Syno...Obama looked like someone who thought he could speak in bumper sticker slogans ("subsidies for Big Oil".."tax breaks for sending jobs overseas") and thinks he could win.
Romney looked like he on a conference call with Wall Street analyst, and he knows his plans are right.
After the debates with Carter things were never the same again.
In the foreign affairs debate... we just had an ambassador killed because you didn't provide the necessary protection for him... Mr president.
Did you notice how respectful Romney was?
Maybe our critics were right.. and all we need is the soft velvet glove.
Well actually Widdle Chrissie was having a meltdown over his hero's non performance. Sort of like a guy who has electile dysfunction--Obama that is, not Chrissie Matthews.
Just saw Obama young woman spokesperson on Fox with Greta. She had energy and smiled as she emphatically told Greta that the Republican Guard still hold Baghdad.
Instapundit linked to this tweet by Matt Welch:
That wasn't a debate so much as Mitt Romney just took Obama for a cross country drive strapped to the roof of his car."
So on that happy note, I'm off to bed. Be well, all of you. :)
Shades of Ludwig II...
Cheers,
Victoria
"According to Dave Weigel, Romney’s 67 percent in the CNN insta-poll is the highest number they’ve ever recorded after a debate."
You filthy racists!
Stop talking like this!
You are turning off the undecided voters!
What is that matter with you?
Ceasefire...
Seriously people... we should start behaving like we might actually win this thing.
This thing ain't over yet.
This was just a "bump in the road" for Obama.
Lets not be all jubilant..
It was just one debate.
In response to a Samuel L. Jackson tweet that this debate doesn't matter, Jim Geraghty responds: I think the phrase I've been hearing is "wake the @#$@ up!"
Awesome.
The moral hazard of affirmative action exacts its price.
Someone finally challenged Obama.
And he wasn't up to the challenge.
In retrospect, we should have seen this coming.
1,180 to 9
That's got to be the biggest mismatch ever.
"Too long, didn't watch" version of the debate tonight:
Obama: blah uhm uh uh uhm blah erh blah *looks down*
Romney: I have five reasons everything you just heard was a load of horse crap. One, Jobs blah blah. Two, blah tax cuts blah jobs. Three, blah liar blah. Four, blah blah. Five, the American dream.
Typical undecided voter: That's a lot of reasons! Obama sure was likeable, but that Romney guy actually knew what he was doing.
I notice Althouse has conspicuously refrained from expressing her own opinion as to who won (or by her own lights and criteria, whatever they are, did better in) the debate tonight. Whatever.
Steve Austin said...
Just saw Obama young woman spokesperson on Fox with Greta. She had energy and smiled as she emphatically told Greta that the Republican Guard still hold Baghdad."
Yep. Saw that too.
Jen Psaki. Fucking Obama Moonie.
Looked like a zombie. Without the charm.
I notice Althouse has conspicuously refrained from expressing her own opinion as to who won..
Shes undecided.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
yashu said...
"I notice Althouse has conspicuously refrained from expressing her own opinion as to who won (or by her own lights and criteria, whatever they are, did better in) the debate tonight. Whatever."
Romney pummeled Obama.
Unfairly, of course.
Didn't debate with a handicap.
So, because Romney pummeled Obama, unfairly, Althouse will vote for Obama, again.
This was just one debate.
Were are still dealing with Chicago politics.. lets not forget that.
Keeps your eyes open.
I'm goin to bed.
All of Obama's dithering, effete, intellectually weak arguments couldn't be edited out for the evening news tonight.
Four years of careful media protection backfired spectacularly.
Obama must have prepared for the debate by walking through a Madison neighborhood and reading the bumper stickers. Heh, I am going to use that one once a day here.
I wonder if the Professor thinks anything about tonight was "ugly."
Whatever "ugly" means.
Ill just leave you guys with this.
It is never too early to think about what to do with your life after you have been President.
Barrack Obama.
Vampire Hunter.
This was just one debate.
Were are still dealing with Chicago politics.. lets not forget that.
Keeps your eyes open.
Oh, for sure. It's not over till the fat lady sings (or the CNN anchor calls the election for Romney).
Wow. My son is watching it as a class assignment (taped it for him). Normally I don't watch these things, but now that I can't ignore it, this is actually embarrassing for O. He seems to have a difficult time putting sentences together.
As fun as this was, I am really looking forward to the VP debate - that will be extremely entertaining!
I hear that Jerome wants to retire so maybe he can go on stage and hold a mirror and hand Morris Day his comb.
Great Tweet:
@jimgeraghty
Obama e-mail subject: "Hey." Inside: "I just met you, and this is crazy, but here's my number, so call me, maybe?"
Ha ha.
Our president is a loser.
James Carville
Obama wanted to have a conversation.. but it takes two people to have a conversation.. Romney showed up with a chainsaw.
Lem said...
That's got to be the biggest mismatch ever.
Mismatch? I understand there's a theory that might explain that.
Chicklit was away ahead of us on that "mismatch" thing earlier.
FP Debate
Obama: "bin Laden is dead".
Romney: "So are our ambassador to Libya and three other Americans."
Next question.
Didn't see that, but not surprised. chickelit is quick and deadly.
The much vaunted Obama Intrade.
Today's Change: (-10.7%)
wow..
I just checked again and its droping like its hot.
(-11.5%)
Lem said...
"wow..
I just checked again and its droping like its hot.
(-11.5%)"
Obama has consistently polled below 50% (for approximately 18 months now).
No incumbent president polling below 50% has won reelection.
Not one.
Tonight's debate performance (for the dopes who didn't, couldn't, wouldn't see this four years ago) confirmed Obama never should have been elected in the first place.
Oh well. Some, especially the sensitive and emotionally invested, will vote for Obama again.
But not all.
I think, after tonight, just enough will not.
Maybe he will drop Michelle and start to date one of the Kardashians.
That would keep him on TV almost as much as he is now.
Intrade for Romney to win: Price change today +32.8%.
Meanwhile, from AP:
The State Department [has withdrawn] from the Libyan city of Benghazi, closing the consulate building and possibly ending any chance of an on-site investigation of the attack there. Although it has been three weeks since the assault there that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other embassy employees, the FBI has still not been able to visit the compound, set up any operations in the city, or even interview any witnesses who were present during the terrorist attack.
Van Jones.. who is as pro-Obama as it gets.
Jones said on CNN that the president seemed unprepared for the debate against Romney.
“I think he took Romney too lightly. I think he did not expect Romney to be able to throw that kind of heat”
Jones added: “Romney was able to ‘out-Obama’ Obama. On the connection piece, on the authenticity piece, on the being able to tell the story.”
Fairness, while always overrated, is indeed important.
Was Katy Perry, the single greatest artist of my generation, a product of fairness and if so how?
Beauty meant fair at one time I suppose, as gay meant Rupert Everett.
Breitbart the Great could not have known Katy Perry did her video starring United States Marines could he?
What do we think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuwfgXD8qV8
Jim Leher didn't protect Obama. That was racist. Republicans should be punished. Althouse should vote for Obama to punish Republicans for not forcing Leher to protect Obama from Mitt Romney's Truth.
Wow, this has to be embarassing for the obama fans out there. Jebus, he can't think on his feet can he? And you think tonight was an anomaly? The diversity hire has finally been thrown into the deep end of the pool and there is no one to save him. Glub...GLUB
I don't get you people. How did Romney "win"? He just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
Many years ago MLK spoke, and I will say in what I quote he spoke for me.
NotquiteunBuckley said...
"I think I should indicate why I am here In Birmingham, since you have been influenced by the view which argues against "outsiders coming in." I have the honor of serving as president of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, an organization operating in every southern state, with headquarters in Atlanta, Georgia. We have some eighty-five affiliated organizations across the South, and one of them is the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights. Frequently we share staff, educational and financial resources with our affiliates. Several months ago the affiliate here in Birmingham asked us to be on call to engage in a nonviolent direct-action program if such were deemed necessary. We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise. So I, along with several members of my staff, am here because I was invited here I am here because I have organizational ties here."
"But more basically, I am in Birmingham because injustice is here. Just as the prophets of the eighth century B.C. left their villages and carried their "thus saith the Lord" far beyond the boundaries of their home towns, and just as the Apostle Paul left his village of Tarsus and carried the gospel of Jesus Christ to the far corners of the Greco-Roman world, so am I compelled to carry the gospel of freedom beyond my own home town. Like Paul, I must constantly respond to the Macedonian call for aid.
Moreover, I am cognizant of the interrelatedness of all communities and states. I cannot sit idly by in Atlanta and not be concerned about what happens in Birmingham. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. Never again can we afford to live with the narrow, provincial "outside agitator" idea. Anyone who lives inside the United States can never be considered an outsider anywhere within its bounds."
So Remember They:
"We readily consented, and when the hour came we lived up to our promise."
They did, and they always will.
Baked in the cake.
My only regret is that it is Obama's 20th anniversary. I'd hate for mine to be spoiled like that.
I don't get you people. How did Romney "win"? He just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
James Carville and Donna Brazille disagree with you. So do Rachel Marrow and Ed Shultz. OTOH, you have Van Jones on your side.
Miss Racist Poll might like the nomenclature.
But any poll I deem racist is racist, and my "about to deem" racist meter is rising.
FYI.
Okay fun and games are over.
Ann Althouse is a racist hosting a racist poll on a racist website.
QED.
I would not have needed to declare Ann Althouse racist had not her poll confirmed my choice of "Romney kicked ass" or some such.
Because Althouse phrased the question a way a racist phrases questions, Althouse should be wondering why those accused of racism lose.
This was a pretty site.
Until Ann Althouse's racism reared it's head.
A ghost head to me, cause I don't believe for more than a milli-second Ann Althouse wants to harm African-Americans; regardless of the effects Ann's policies have had and will continue to have.
I have long stated all humans are racist.
I am human.
From the:
WRM
"notquiteunBuckley says:
August 29, 2011 at 11:09 pm
My Grandfather’s Son, Justice Thomas’ autobiography, presents a strong case Anita Hill is a liar. From what I recall, the other witnesses that Toobin says Biden didn’t call to testify wouldn’t confirm the main allegations, just occasional remarks from Thomas they didn’t like.
Thomas is a tough boss, as the article shows.
Moreover, Hill followed (trailed?) Thomas before, during, and after all these allegations are said to have taken place, trying to use him to further her career for many years after he made it clear she wasn’t a hard enough worker by his standards.
He’s got some evidence, believe it or not, and claims no guilt on his part, only his regret at having run into a psycho in Hill."
THIS is New York.
Not corzine.
boogbloomed.
accents and miky/mikey/mickey/michy/anthony/anton/antonin/tony/thomas/tini/yadayadayadabingbangboom and then HEY! There's fucking Frank Sinatra.
It ain't over.
I fool myself.
Long live New York.
Literally, the WRM link I just gave you all is more usefule than Joe Biden.
"Jeffrey Toobin’s gripping, must-read profile of Clarence and Virginia Thomas in the New Yorker gives readers new insight into what Sauron must have felt: Toobin argues that the only Black man in public life that liberals could safely mock and despise may be on the point of bringing the Blue Empire down."
This might "seem" right to some; it's not.
Bork.
Bob.
Worst UgloAssHatEver Fat Ted (you know by that definition ... you knew before the name "Ted" because he is evil and he's not done asshatting with gross blubber.)
Then, what turned out to be progressives fatal flaw.
The Greatest American.
I just watched the debate a 2nd time and read the transcript, and I think I see what happened: Obama bet that Romney would overplay his hand, and lost.
Incumbents often play this long game effectively: They're willing to timidly "lose" a number of exchanges in order to make themselves look presidential by contrast. Even if the media spin goes against them, it doesn't really matter since the point was to create a subtle but enduring visual/emotional reaction.
But Romney was firm and sharp, without mocking Obama with one-liners or "gotcha" attacks, and without seeming disrespectfully over-exuberant.
Note how neither candidate went after the other's most famous "gaffes."
Obama just got out-leveled.
Bill Clinton tweeted: No president could have "magically" beaten Romney in a debate. Not even me.
I thought Mr. Romney was respectful of the stuttering socialist. Make no mistake, when socialism is under the spotlight, not unlike a cockroach it finds no comfort or appliance to hide under.
The president often exceeded his time limit in his effort to 'splain himself. This, a marker of someone in a pickle.
Despite AP's attempt at self-deprecating satire, brother Choom was no match for the polished ex-governor. Can we now agree that teh won is not the great 'orator' he's been billed as? Anyone can speak using a teleprompter.
Almost as good as Matt Welch's was (surprise!) Bill Maher's, "I guess he really does need that teleprompter".
And it's going to be interesting to see the foreign policy debate.
Choomie is "bored by foreign policy", they say.
I have a feeling the Romster will get his attention.
"All of Obama's dithering, effete, intellectually weak arguments couldn't be edited out for the evening news tonight.
Four years of careful media protection backfired spectacularly."
I would refer you back to my last comment.
Socialists cannot stand up to the withering light of exposure. Disinfection is possible only when the enablers are removed from the equation.
The media know their guy is vulnerable in these situations, witness the pre-emptive qualifiers about teh won not being a good debater, etc.
The New Media need to start undressing the old guard. Not only do socialists need to be exposed, so does the media apparatchik.
For our compassionate liberal readers.
Obama: They’re not “Death Panels,” they’re just panels made up of expert doctors who’ll decide if your treatment should be paid for.
Ah. Good times. Good times.
I am the moon.
It's obvious Romney excelled, and Obama blew it, from a debate perspective.
As a person who believes in the power of the individual, and who believes we all come from billions of years of survivors, I did not see a meaningful difference between the two in the role of government.
I'll give Romney credit for wanting to send power to the "laboratories of Democracy, the states," agree strongly that competition is a massive mover of change, but what chance does Romney have of sending anything back to the states, in a meaningful way?
In other words, the state in both candidates' views has this huge role to play. One "honest" man is not going to change the failures of the huge role of the state.
"Romney:”I’ve got 5 boys. I’m used to people saying the same thing over and over again hoping it becomes true.”
One of the best lines of the night.
With everything that has come out about Libya (murdered ambassador), Mexico (murdered kids), Syria (dropping mortars on Turkey), and Iran (bombs are 'OK' just not ICBMs). A foreign policy debate is going to be really really tough for the President.
President Obama is going to need to serious help from the moderators.
"In other words, the state in both candidates' views has this huge role to play. One "honest" man is not going to change the failures of the huge role of the state."
So, your position is, it doesn't matter at all, and we should re-elect the unqualified unvetted amateur. Is that correct?
I am stunned that AA is undecided.
All the gleefully negative comments about Obama I've decided must be either pandering to the commenters or embarrassment or both. There is some huge disconnect that I am not getting. If there is ANY part of her that supports Obama, or more likely, his policies, I cannot say what it is based on the tone and presentation of material through these four years.
If anything, it might be an aside every 300th post. And that's it. A parenthetical oh-by-the-way "I support this (likely minor) policy" comment at most. Incredible.
"Here is your October surprise.. The emperor has no clothes."
That was apparent in October 2008.
"Romney:'I’ve got 5 boys. I’m used to people saying the same thing over and over again hoping it becomes true.'
"One of the best lines of the night."
And very obviously scripted, for what it's worth.
"Socialists cannot stand up to the withering light of exposure."
This, vis a vis last night's campaign event, is a non-sequitur.
Buenos dias a todos.
Robert Cook: And very obviously scripted, for what it's worth.
So you're saying Pres. Obama walked into Gov. Romney's trap?
Even better.
"Obama: They’re not 'Death Panels,' they’re just panels made up of expert doctors who’ll decide if your treatment should be paid for."
Is this better or worse than our current practice, where, (assuming one is fortunate enough to have insurance), the decision as to whether one's treatment should be paid for is made by an accountant whose job is to help his employer increase profits by finding reasons to deny coverage?
I'm not a proponent of Obamneycare--it merely perpetuates and makes more powerful our system of private health insurers--but anyone who claims rationing of care doesn't take place now, using much harsher metrics, is lying or in denial.
Dante: but what chance does Romney have of sending anything back to the states, in a meaningful way?
Bill Clinton did it successfully with block grants in the 1996 Welfare Reform law. A success, which, unfortunately, Barack Obama is seeking to undo.
"So you're saying Pres. Obama walked into Gov. Romney's trap?"
I'm not saying that because I don't know or care. I didn't watch last night, as I'm not voting for either of them. They're both awful.
The problem of the liberal and progressive jewish media masters bootlicking him, his White House staff and Hollywood adoring him in the bubble - is that Obama has faced nothing but kids gloves and has no comfort being away from his TelePrompter facing him with the gloves off.
Credit to both men not demagoguing it. And wanting a substantive debate.
But the problem was Romney came off not just winning on debate technique...but showing he could take a punch better than Obama could. When Obama was beaten in a segment, he looked miffed, face scrunched up, eyes down like he could not believe someone would have the temerity to didd the Black Messiah.
Add Romney being to all appearances smarter, faster in his feet, in command of all his facts. More Presidential, I think to voters, than Obama appeared to be.
Went to the Love for Levon concert last night.
Levon won.
Hey, Tank, friends of mine were doing the tech work for that show.
Good concert?
When Krauthammer and Maher agree Romney won, there's no real debate on the matter.
But, you know who really lost? Jim Lehrer.
"In other words, the state in both candidates' views has this huge role to play. One "honest" man is not going to change the failures of the huge role of the state."
So, your position is, it doesn't matter at all, and we should re-elect the unqualified unvetted amateur. Is that correct?
Not sure how you got that. I don't think you understand my point.
The debates are for women.
They call them debates like they call soap opera news, so women can feel important when they feel stuff.
--Is this better or worse than our current practice, where, (assuming one is fortunate enough to have insurance), the decision as to whether one's treatment should be paid for is made by an accountant whose job is to help his employer increase profits by finding reasons to deny coverage?---
It's worse, I can't sue the government.
Sullivan considers himself a high information voter? Maybe if the issue is baby parentage.
Althouse calls that ugly rh.
Wait...
I see what you did there.
The debate scoring is commentary on the presumed effect on women.
The two high points for me: Obama asking Lehrer to change the subject, and Romney's quiet menace as he reminds Obama they'll be doing this dance two more times.
Or Romney's joke about this being the most romantic anniversary ever.
"And very obviously scripted, for what it's worth."
-- In some places, we also call "scripted" "being prepared." Remember when being prepared was a virtue?
Rh, I think debates have an element of sport that people like. Most people already know who they're voting for, and they just want to see what their guy does against the other guy.
That 47 percent thing.
--I'm not a proponent of Obamneycare--it merely perpetuates and makes more powerful our system of private health insurers--but anyone who claims rationing of care doesn't take place now, using much harsher metrics, is lying or in denial.--
HUH?
It's designed for the long game of government control. They're not powerful, the insurers are the middlemen.
Just like the banks with mortgages, the King owns our house now.
Dante wrote
"Not sure how you got that. I don't think you understand my point."
I thinks its reasonable to conclude what I said based on your 'point'. If you think I don't understand what you said, then maybe the point you made isn't as clear as you thought and does require you to further explain. Because, what is the choice here? 4 more years of 'change' or the possibility we can correct course despite your fears?
Robert Cook said...
"Obama: They’re not 'Death Panels,' they’re just panels made up of expert doctors who’ll decide if your treatment should be paid for."
Is this better or worse than our current practice, where, (assuming one is fortunate enough to have insurance), the decision as to whether one's treatment should be paid for is made by an accountant whose job is to help his employer increase profits by finding reasons to deny coverage?
I'm not a proponent of Obamneycare--it merely perpetuates and makes more powerful our system of private health insurers--but anyone who claims rationing of care doesn't take place now, using much harsher metrics, is lying or in denial.
In one instance I get to decide-or my family- when I die. In the other a bureaucrat gets to decide.
I'm not surprised you need me to point this out.
Seems the largest number of respondents EVER in this CNN poll agree Romney won the debate.
According to a CNN/ORC International survey conducted right after the debate, 67% of debate watchers questioned said that the Republican nominee won the faceoff, with one in four saying that President Barack Obama was victorious.
"No presidential candidate has topped 60% in that question since it was first asked in 1984," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland.
Wow.
It was like Obama's was the biggest present under the christmas tree, wrapped in gold leaf paper... and Romney came over... ripped it open and there was only a bag of Skittles wrapped in newspapers to keep it from rattling.
An empty suit... not an ugly suit.
"Romney:'I’ve got 5 boys. I’m used to people saying the same thing over and over again hoping it becomes true.'
"One of the best lines of the night."
And very obviously scripted, for what it's worth."
So, you are saying that because he may have prepared his line, its not as instructive or effective as it would have been had he just 'made it up' on the spot.
Is that correct?
I trust you are unfamiliar with being a parent, or, the teaching profession?
@FH Rh, I think debates have an element of sport that people like. Most people already know who they're voting for, and they just want to see what their guy does against the other guy.
You could have a debate-debate about say economics but women wouldn't watch. That would be one guy on the other too, and actually provide information.
The deal today is that you have to sell yourself to women, and that's how it's scored.
I'm just for renaming it. The soap opera confrontation, say.
The real question is, did the world take notice?
@Alex,
I don't get you people. How did Romney "win"? He just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
I noticed you started up your "trolling lefty" persona again. Giving up on your promise so soon?
What is happening to the democrat party?
@Robert Cook,
you said:
I'm not saying that because I don't know or care. I didn't watch last night, as I'm not voting for either of them. They're both awful.
Good idea. The best way to preserve ignorant opinions is to avoid any chance of new information breaking through the deliberate ignorance.
Seems the largest number of respondents EVER in this CNN poll agree Romney won the debate.
Bu bu but but the polls are +/-?>>>+/-!
Garage: There's a difference between the sorts of polls that the CNN one was and the kind on who people may vote for. Not only that, but the decision is decidedly lop sided. It's a single data point to pair up with Maher, Matthews, Sullivan and Michael Moore agreeing Obama lost the debate. So, as opposed to the other polls (where the data is wonky -- more people think the country is on the wrong track/doing worse, but Obama is still winning), all the data is pointing in the same direction: "Massacre, massacre."
The Emperor has no clothes!
What can Teh Won say about FP?
All Mitt has to do is say, you got the 3 AM phone call, went back to sleep, there are 4 people dead and no investigation taking place at all.
I kind of wonder if Obama will tag out to Clinton for the next debates like he famously did for a press conference.
So do we think the Bamster went to bed or did he stay up past his bedtime yesterday?
Robert Cook: Is this better or worse than our current practice...
Whom do you distrust least -- Cigna or the NHS?
@Robert Cook,
you said:
I'm not a proponent of Obamneycare--it merely perpetuates and makes more powerful our system of private health insurers--but anyone who claims rationing of care doesn't take place now, using much harsher metrics, is lying or in denial.
You keep using that word "rationing". Its meaning is not the way you are using it.
If there is any of what you mistakenly call rationing right now, it is only that someone cannot afford all the care they want to have.
If I can't afford a BMW, it is not because BMWs are rationed.
Rationing is when there is limited supply, and someone makes a decision who can have a portion of that limited supply.
That is British-style health care. That is single-payer health care. That is the "death panel" part of Obamacare: trying to keep costs from spiraling out of control by limiting who gets what.
Right now, anyone can have as much health care as they can afford.
That's not rationing by any sense of the word.
It does mean some people can afford more health care. Well, people who make good decisions and work hard should have the benefit of their hard work and good choices.
And it also means that the rich are guinea pigs for developing more effective treatments for the poor...it takes some time for economies of scale to drive the price down...but Obamacare would remove that incentive and stifle innovation.
Under Obamacare, we'd eventually all have free health care that gives us aspirin and sends anyone except the politically-connected home to heal or die on our own.
No thanks.
I don't get you people. How did Romney "win"? He just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
Maybe Obama is capable of that, but not last night, and I seriously doubt it.
What was impressive to me is that Romney came in highly prepared, like the guy who graduated at the top of his college class by working twice as hard to prepare for tests and did all the extra credit homework. And, Obama came in as someone who slid through tests, faking it on his likability. The result was that Romney would respond with his five points on this or that, which he would tick off, one by one, and Obama would maybe kinda attack one of them, but really not, and often seemed to attack something that Romney had just rebutted.
Yes, Romney had his talking points and his zingers all memorized, and he got them out, time and time again. Good that I wasn't doing a drinking game of the $716 billion. Might have passed out, but it seemed like whenever healthcare or Medicare were somehow relevant, Romney got this figure out.
Obama didn't have much in the way of specifics, and one of the few times that he did, in the case of oil company tax loopholes, he got shredded, with Romney first pointing out that Mobil and Exxon didn't get them, and then shifting into an attack on Obama's Green Energy, how he spent 50 years worth of oil and gas loopholes on "green energy", and then slid into his the you didn't pick winners and losers, but just losers, naming them off, starting with Solyndra.
It was Romney's ability to turn that sort of Obama attack around, and use facts, figures, and in this case humor, to destroy him, that was why I think that Romney did much better than Obama.
ROmney clearly showed that he is in command.
Obama hasnn't been able to crack more than 48% approval ratings with liklely voters. Romney's performance keeps Obama's share of the vote at that 48%.
Alex: [Romney] just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
Yes, yes, and the Russians just avoided getting pushed back into the Volga at Stalingrad.
"@Alex,
I don't get you people. How did Romney "win"? He just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
I noticed you started up your "trolling lefty" persona again. Giving up on your promise so soon?"
Alex has multiple personalities. Maybe, her real name is Cybill and not Alex.
"...All Mitt has to do is say, you got the 3 AM phone call, went back to sleep, there are 4 people dead and no investigation taking place at all."
AND... the official Obama administration lie was to blame an obscure youtube video that no-one in the middle east ever watched-- until inept Obama administration mentioned it over and over-- and use said obscure video as a scapegoat and cover-up.
btw- The film maker who insulted big Mo is still in jail. Anyone on the left care about freedom of speech anymore? Hello - ACLU? Anyone?
Luckily for Obama, his next chance to recapture momentum is the Biden v. Ryan debate. Failing that, there is a chance to espouse on his foreign policy successes. Don't worry, I sense the Come Back Kid narrative getting started.
We need a morning after thread. Obama is probably already up and seeking Plan B.
And very obviously scripted, for what it's worth."
I have little doubt that Romney's zingers were scripted. Indeed, I think that you could tell by the way that he said them. He doesn't come across as a natural jokester, like a Clinton, LBJ, or maybe even a George W. Bush. Telling jokes doesn't come naturally. What does seem to come naturally is ticking off points. He seemed the most comfortable to me whenever he would say he had five points for solving some problem, then ticking them off, one by one. And, similarly, his introductory congratulations/joke about the Obama anniversary came across as somewhat stiff.
So what though? We aren't electing a stand-up comic, but rather, someone who can make the right calls when they need to. The timing of the one-liners was pretty good, and having so many of them prepared showed a lot of good prep, along with the zillion facts and figures that he was able to dump upon demand.
Garage: There's a difference between the sorts of polls that the CNN one was and the kind on who people may vote for
Apparently the entire survey was white, 50+, and from the South. And no liberals. Internals here. Now that's real skewing!
Garage: You're reading that chart wrong. That means 80+% of the people in that demo cited that way. If you add up a column, you get roughly 100% (which you should from that demo), whereas if you add up across the row, you get way above 100%. Also, could you link to the actual internals and not a picture of them so I can better fact check you.
And they all voted for Obama before, didn't they?
P.S., Here's CNN's actual Poll numbers for the Oct. 3 debate here. Note: Auto downloads a PDF.
Break down: 33% of the respondents who participated in tonight's survey identified themselves as Republicans, 37% identified
themselves as Democrats, and 29% identified themselves as
Independents.
Which, by the way, seems pretty close to right (both R & D might be over sampled and I undersampled, but I don't think it makes that big of a difference.)
I don't get you people. How did Romney "win"? He just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
Let me respectfully disagree on several fronts. First, I don't think that it was even close. If Obama had a game, he definitely wasn't on it last night. He didn't have the facts and figures all teed up and ready to go, and didn't have backup plans in place. And, that is no way to deal with someone as detail oriented as a Romney (or, I, suspect, a Ryan). He didn't lay a glove on Romney, because the latter had anticipated all of his (few) real attacks, and was able to deftly deflect them, and get in his own hits at the same time.
Secondly though, merely surviving would probably have been sufficient for Romney. He really only needed to go on stage, look just as Presidential as the current President, and survive. We are used to seeing Obama as President - could we, the American people, see Romney as such? And, I think, the answer is yes. And, I think, he may have even looked more Presidential than the real one last night, who seemed somewhat diminished (maybe, as a result of being tired).
Obama must be back to smokin' weed.
I bet he gets the best stuff that the DEA seizes. You don't think they throw that shit away, do you?
Shorter garage: polls are racist!
Yesterday, old school chums, overwhelming Obama voters, exhorted the denizens of Facebook to watch the debates.
Today, word is that that debate format was just terrible. Mostly though, it's just silent. Occasional pictures of Big Bird.
"Freeman Hunt said...
We need a morning after thread. Obama is probably already up and seeking Plan B."
No doubt. Obama is a narcissist. A brittle man/child. He will not take this beat down well. Even his side is laughing at him. I think his response will be harsh and angry. Someone's gonna pay for this failure.
And he will overcompensate, like Gore did, in the second debate. He won't be laughed at. He won't be bullied. He will be the tough guy. And he will come off like a petulant piss-ant he really is. And that will be that.
furious_a said...
Alex: [Romney] just avoided being shellacked, but that's not winning.
Yes, yes, and the Russians just avoided getting pushed back into the Volga at Stalingrad.
============
Bad analogy, as the Soviets almost DID get pushed back into the Volga at several points.
What happened to Obama is sort of like how the Iraqi Air Force fared against us in the Gulf War. A very one-sided combat, the outcome not in doubt as it unfolded...especially since the USAF was far better than foreign military thought they were, and the Iraqis absolute 2nd rate.
"He didn't lay a glove on Romney, because the latter had anticipated all of his (few) real attacks, and was able to deftly deflect them, and get in his own hits at the same time."
-- This has been the one thing Romney has been amazing at. Starting with filming Bain commercials while he was still in the primaries so he had them at the ready to deploy when Obama let the hammer drop to leaking excerpts from his autobiography about feeling invisible as a garbage man, he has defanged every attack Obama or his surrogates have leveled at him, while having a devastating counter point (my favorite is that failed green energy subsidies over Obama's administration account for 50 years of oil subsidies). Romney is a text book case of planning and preparation.
Romney was the "more forceful debater"(CNN). I think that says it. I wouldn't despair or lose hope if I were on Obama's team.
"I think his response will be harsh and angry. Someone's gonna pay for this failure."
-- John Kerry probably is not reporting for duty today. I bet Obama wishes he wasn't joking about not doing his debate homework now. It's like in a high school movie where the jerk jock skips practice while the plucky new guy trains into the early morning hours. Then, during the Big Game, pulls out an unexpected win that shocks everyone and gets him the girl.
In this case, the girl is the presidency.
"Romney was the "more forceful debater"(CNN). I think that says it. I wouldn't despair or lose hope if I were on Obama's team."
-- Romney spoke less than Obama; Obama had nearly five more minutes to make his case. It has nothing to do with "force" and everything to do with competency.
No doubt. Obama is a narcissist. A brittle man/child. He will not take this beat down well. Even his side is laughing at him. I think his response will be harsh and angry. Someone's gonna pay for this failure.
Where do you guys get your fantasies and projections? I'm not sure I want to know.
@garage mahal:Apparently the entire survey was white, 50+, and from the South. And no liberals. Internals here. Now that's real skewing!
I am not surprised that you can't read a chart and will lie about what it says.
--Occasional pictures of Big Bird--
You should ask them since Disney owns Big Bird, why does Disney need a subsidy?
Or how many Sesame Street items have you ever bought, how come PBS isn't getting a cut?
WIKI:
In 2001 there were over 120 million viewers of various international versions of Sesame Street, and by the show's 40th anniversary in 2009, it was broadcast in more than 140 countries.
Probably someone above or in one of the other threads noted that President Obama seemed tired. A pundit in the last couple of days suggested that a lot of sitting Presidents come across that way in their first debates in their reelection campaign, and it may be the result of having a day job too, while the challenger can usually spend all his spare time campaigning (though last time, it was the one Senator looking relaxed and rested because he had blown off his day job, and the other looking more tired, because he had not (plus being a lot older)).
It was suggested that this was one of the big reasons that challengers often get a small bump after the first debates. Then, the sitting President gets serious about preparing for debates, including getting plenty of rest, and they do better in the later debates. We shall see if this happens with Obama. His Presidential schedule was already pretty minimal, often with only one official function or meeting a day. Can't cut back much more than that. Is he going to drop to 25% PDB attendance? Still, he was much more rested and relaxed four years ago, so likely can do it again, in the later debates.
P.S., Those N/As merely mean no one identified as such. I'm not sure why no one identified as non-white or from the Northeast. But, across political parties, we have a decent sample.
April Apple -
"btw- The film maker who insulted big Mo is still in jail. Anyone on the left care about freedom of speech anymore? Hello - ACLU? Anyone?"
A little hard to cast the Egyptian con artist as a 1st Amendment Martyr when he was violating probation, running another criminal con, deceiving workers on the film - and worst of all - admitting in an interview his purpose was to incite Muslims to act violently against America. And his incitement worked. While the LIbyan event was separate, the film stirred up anti-American rioting from Morocco all the way to Indonesia.
When US citizen Anwar al-Awlaki incited Muslims to act violently against America, using speeches and internet as his weapons...we nailed his ass with a Hellfire. And few felt sad for the dead Jihadi or called him a martyr.
-- Romney spoke less than Obama; Obama had nearly five more minutes to make his case. It has nothing to do with "force" and everything to do with competency.
Part of this may have been the moderator. He kept giving the President extra time, and almost seemed to be coaching him at times. Of course, those on the left seem convinced that he favored Romney, and maybe it is a indication that he did a good job, with both sides thinking that he favored their opponent.
I think Obama will be much better in the next debate. He's not a social incompetent like Gore.
I agree Romney was more aggressive and clear, but he devil is in the details, few of which he supplied.( And some may think him the devil) I wondered if Obama was trying too hard not to look defensive but instead steady at the helm, which he may be, but the stance did not work for him in this debate, it was Romney by a big margin.
@Matthew Sablan:Here's CNN's actual poll numbers...
Thanks for linking to the PDF. Garage either got rolled himself, is is a spectacularly incompetent liar.
@garage: no point in linking to a tiny piece of something and trying to lie about it when people can find the original themselves.
The best orator since Linclon was completely & utterly exposed as a know-nothing buffoon.
Who won? The American People.
I had to laugh/groan though at a line from the AP report about the time limit (2 minutes) that each man routinely had. The take-away line from AP? The President sometimes shook his head as Mitt Romney talked over Jim Lehrer.
Garage either got rolled himself, is is a spectacularly incompetent liar.
Everything he posts here is a lie or in service to a lie.
He is also generally stupid beyond belief.
Freeman Hunt doing her part for her man by raising the expectations for Obama! : D
No doubt. Obama is a narcissist. A brittle man/child. He will not take this beat down well
Did you see the photo of the scowl Moo-shell was sporting?
It is all crumbling down for them.
Heh. I just don't think Obama is the social buffoon some others seem to think he is. He'll watch the tapes, see what same off poorly, and improve. And surely he'll practice on someone other than Kerry-- that was a poor choice on his part.
C4: Bad rebuttal. Chuikov's command post never left the West bank and the Russians held the landing stages throughout. And you seem to have forgotten what came after.
Recommend Geoffrey Jukes' Stalingrad, the Turning Point, as remedial reading.
@garage: no point in linking to a tiny piece of something and trying to lie about it when people can find the original themselves.
Ok, so what was the lie?
Not his fault. We just weren't ready for a black President.
This is a real question, not Snark.
Is there a difference between people's perceptions of the contenders when they hear the media TALK about Romney and Obama and when they actually HEAR Romney and Obama?
As per Althouse, i have an opinion but i would like to hear what Garage says. Garage's opinion is as valid as anyone else's. One Person, One Vote etc. etc.
"And surely he'll practice on someone other than Kerry-- that was a poor choice on his part."
Obama's choices: Biden and Kerry. Who is he going to choose next? Harry Reid is probably available.
"I agree Romney was more aggressive and clear, but he devil is in the details, few of which he supplied."
-- This is a flat out lie. Romney provided the names of organizations for studies he cited, hard numbers and explanations of laws and business concepts throughout the debate, as well as figures for taxation and small business numbers.
Obama did not get where he is by demonstration of his executive competence. He got there because he was able to seem likeable to people. He did not seem likeable last night. He seemed beleaguered. One can only assume he'll be back on his game next time.
"Obama's choices: Biden and Kerry. Who is he going to choose next? Harry Reid is probably available."
-- I would've picked a moderate Dem or at least an honest liberal. If I had been Obama, I'd've picked someone like Steny-Hoyer or Manchin, if either would've accepted.
roesch/voltaire said...
I agree Romney was more aggressive and clear, but he devil is in the details, few of which he supplied.(
Hysterical.
Yes, Romney supplied "No details" at all.
Really, he didn't.
No doubt Obama will do better. I hope Romney does to because as someone pointed out, neither had the debating skills of a Clinton or a Reagan. But then neither is likely to get those skills at this stage of their lives.
Gary Johnson...
Scripted remarks are the only remarks a politician dares use these days. If a politician says something "inartfully" there's a huge price to pay. We are unforgiving consumers of words. No one gets a break except media darlings, and then only until they "fall from grace."
POTUS lurched into a slump,
but today he's on the stump.
@NatAlex
Thank you for that wonderful explanation of Zerocare vs. our present system. I have been looking for the words to defend from the crap coming outta leftist mouths, and now I am armed. :-)
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