Four Americans died while the Obama national-security team and our military passively watched and listened. The administration is being criticized for ignoring security needs before the attack and for falsely attributing the assault to a mob. But the most severe failure has gone unnoticed: namely, a failure to aid the living.
October 22, 2012
"The White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and numerous military headquarters monitored the entire battle in real time via the phone calls from Benghazi and video from a drone overhead."
"Our diplomats fought for seven hours without any aid from outside the country."
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obama matters.
Nothing else does.
Obamaphone. Gimme my Obamaphone.
This is a BFD. If our press weren't so far into Obama-Pravda-Land, the Obama campaign would implode today like a kicked-in television tube.
People analyzing this aren't near cynical enough. The reason this event was not initially acknowledged for what it was, is as small ball and as petty, and as outrageous as this:
If it was a terrorist attack, no way Barry and his posse get to still go to Vegas. Negative optics too much even for their shockingly low standards.
This has been my biggest point of anger over this whole thing. Our leaders failed when their people depended on them. I'm sounding like a broken record but: Leaders do not abandon their people.
Romney closed his business to go look for a missing girl; Obama rolled back over to sleep while Stevens and his men were attacked.
That counterpoint in leadership, alone, is enough of a reason to cement my vote.
This makes me uncomfortable. If only that awful Mitt Romney fellow would stop asking distracting questions and let the President get back to buying me cellphones and birth control pills.
Question Ann....
If they WATCHED for hours as the attack happened, yes WATCHED, even the White House, how could they say it wasn't terrorism, or they didn't know for sure, or that no one notified them, or oh, hell, just the whole narrative.
Obama lied and four Americans died.
The phone call at 3 AM went unanswered.
More Americans will die, it's OK for Iran to have the bomb.
I'm really surprised to find out that there wasn't a MEU anywhere in range to assist. That's what they do, that's what they train for.
I bet we are going to find out that someone needed to make a decision and they couldn't find someone to make the call at that time of night.
Some admin flunky probably thought this was just another demonstration ala Egypt, and decided it wasn't important enough to notify the President or SoS.
I certainly wouldn't want to be an ambassador or an embassy employee under this administration. It's pretty clear that such people are very expendable, not even worth the effort of a fighter jet flyover.
This is what Col David Hunt was talking about on O'Really last week - and he was outraged.
BillO tried to calm him down because he still would love an exit interview with Zero, but Hunt was having none of it.
God, I hope the Romster hits him with this tonight.
And then brings up him going back to bed.
PS Of course, Oop will give us the Full Court Charlie (Rangel) about how, next time, there oughta be a draft and no more wars on a credit card
"God, I hope the Romster hits him with this tonight."
The Romster?
Or maybe the Romulator.
That would make his followers Romulans.
When the proverbial 3 AM call came in, Obama voted "present."
not even worth the effort of a fighter jet flyover
That's something I was wondering about - as I recall, pre-Iraq invasion, the US used to do low-level building-rattling flyovers to scare the shit out of the local soldiers. Not sure what the protocul would be with Libya, but you would think the US would be able to get Libyan forces to stand down while they do some flyovers.
Now, now, Romney can't be bringing up something like this. It would be rude and non-deferential to the office of the president. (Sarcasm off).
As much as the MSM has been in the tank for Obama, I didn't think that something this awful would just be ignored or treated as "not important". Watch the preference cascade turn into a tsunami after tonight.
"When the proverbial 3 AM call came in, Obama voted "present.""
-- That would imply he bothered to show up.
Alan,
I don't even think the Libyans currently have anything left that they could "stand down" if they wanted too.
Looks like the 24th MEU was off the coast of Dijbouti at least a week or two later. The Iwo Jima group was probably out of position in the Gulf area.
I hope Governor Romney absolutely HAMMERS Zero on this tonight. Zero and Biden should be impeached and tried over this. And Hillary needs to go too.
How ANYONE with any functioning brains cells can even CONSIDER voting for Zero in two weeks is just completely beyond me.
As Samuel Jackson (another useful idiot) said, "wake the F*** up!"
Incompetence isn't a crime; lying about public affairs isn't a crime. You can't impeach them for this; you can, however, follow some sage advice and let them go.
As I recall, the initial "Obama reaction" criticism is that he went to bed 4 hours after hearing about the attack, before doing what he could to protect the embassy personnel, before learning of their ultimate fate.
So if the White House was listening to and watching the attack in real time and it went on for 7 hours, that means he went to bed DURING the attack.
This was not an optimal response.
When the proverbial 3 AM call came in, Obama voted "present."
He had his call forwarding set to "Hillary".
It was a gutsy call.
Via Drudge:
A Red Carpet for Radicals at the White House
by Steve Emerson and John Rossomando
IPT News
October 21, 2012
A year-long investigation by the Investigative Project on Terrorism (IPT) has found that scores of known radical Islamists made hundreds of visits to the Obama White House, meeting with top administration officials....
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."
Napoleon said that but I don't know which is the appropriate theory with this bunch.
In Obama's defense, he probably found the whole thing boring,
"I think I’m a better military commander than my commanders, I know more about strategy in any particular scenario than my joint chiefs. And I’ll tell you right now that I’m gonna think I’m better at these terror attack things than those sad sack libyan al-queda wannabes.
I'm getting some rest, send me a checklist of appropriate responses and have the autopen sign off on the death letters. 'Nite ya'll."
1. They didn't want a decent security presence because it wouldn't send the right message. The pre problem.
2. They didn't want to admit to a terrorist/AQ problem. The campaign narrative problem.
3. They didn't expect the media to care so much. The flawed idea that 100% of the media is in the tank like 2008 problem.
4. Romney kicked your ass in the first debate. The no agenda for the next four years problem.
Was our very expensive best military in history really incapable of doing anything that day? I just can't accept that. There was a huge failure of leadership at some level to not have resources close enough to do something, anything, even a jet fly over, but better a warthog or helicopter gunship, but something.
If it was either policy or paralysis at the State Department or from the President, they all need fired, and a fish rots from the head. Something stinks bad.
Why didn't Zero call up his "friend" Bibi and ask him to help out with some air and even ground support. The Israelis probably have men and women ready to move at a moments notice. Could they have been there in less than seven hours?
So Americans are mere bumps in Liar-in-Chief Obama's road to his vision of a pro-muslim and Jew free middle east calling all shots by Mohammed's sharia law.
If that ain't a real war on women and gays, then there is no such thing as a war.
We didn't know this until Charlene Lamb testified, and I think the Romney campaign is holding fire because it's a pretty terrible thing to allege they watched people die.
True maybe, probably, but a horrific allegation.
This revelation makes me think that tonight's debate will not be optimal for Team Obama.
Madison Man would be a terrific Fox liberal. Always deferential to the GOP in return for a nice pat on the head for a job well done.
"Goooood boy!"
I have a hard time believing that they couldn't get aviation assets on scene in two hours or less, depending on the alert status they were in when they received notification. Probably not assets that were optimal for that situation, but apparently that wasn't even attempted.
And here's Kevin Drum Telling us that Benghazi wasn't such a big deal.
National Review? Piffle. Wake me up when the MSM gets on to this. I don't think that will be anytime before the election.
This might be considered off-topic, but I wonder if the same people that screamed about Bush taking the time to finish reading a book to a group of elementary students are the same people spreading their skirts and saying "nothing to see here" about Obama's little bedtime story.
Isn't Obama the one who sat on his hands and refused to meet with his Afghan commander for months and then when he decided to order a "surge" in Afghanistan didn't understand why the military couldn't just up and *do* that the next day?
The problem with a four hour response time is that it only works if you start responding right away. So someone has to decide right at the onset to send help. If someone dings around for a couple of hours deciding, then it's a six or seven hour response time and there you are.
Still, nothing really wrong with giving the order and then turning everyone around again and sending them home again before they get there. Sort of expensive and maybe a little annoying, but I'm sure that the people responding to the false alarm would rather be annoyed once in a while than to know that something like this happened and no one called them.
While I agree that the Zero administration has been horrible lax, and mis-managed re- the Benghazi Kerfuffle, It is always presumed that the host country has the responsibility of protecting embassies. Any Marines on station are just for a holding action. There is obviously not enough firepower to actually repel a concerted attack.
The ugly truth is that if we had sent a military mission into Libya to protect Stevens, and the embassy, then we could open ourselves up to charges of invasion,meddling, etc. Another ugly truth is that no matter what we do, the Society for the Perpetually Aggrieved will bitch about it.
Heck of a job, Barry.
"then we could open ourselves up to charges of invasion,meddling, etc."
REALLLLLY? In LIBYA? That is the weakest tea.
"If the attackers were a mob, as intelligence reported, then an F18 in afterburner, roaring like a lion, would unnerve them. This procedure was applied often in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars."
A point I have been making for a while.
"...if we had sent a military mission into Libya to protect Stevens, and the embassy, then we could open ourselves up to charges of invasion,meddling, etc."
Beats being dead.
@garage
You look bad to malign MadisonMan. To his credit, he's just not a blind follower.
"If the attackers were a mob, as intelligence reported, then an F18 in afterburner, roaring like a lion, would unnerve them. This procedure was applied often in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars."
Lots of us have experienced stadium fly overs. I've always commented, "That would be enough to make me surrender."
wyo sis said...
This might be considered off-topic, but I wonder if the same people that screamed about Bush taking the time to finish reading a book to a group of elementary students are the same people spreading their skirts and saying "nothing to see here" about Obama's little bedtime story
You broke the code.
Synova said...
Isn't Obama the one who sat on his hands and refused to meet with his Afghan commander for months and then when he decided to order a "surge" in Afghanistan didn't understand why the military couldn't just up and *do* that the next day?
That was Stan McChrystal and Barry knew he was so much smarter than any general he shorted McChrystal's troop list by 50%.
He was also bored at the idea the Iraqis were willing to negotiate a way we could still have bases in Iraq, so he let that slip away.
Looks like what few adults there are at State aren't letting that happen in A-stan.
@garage mahal: Feel free to offer a substantive defense of the actions of the candidate you support instead of more snark.
The US has tankers in the air over the Med nearly all the time. There was no reason, none, why fighters based in southern Europe or Quatar couldn't have been scrambled to Libya to fly low and hot over the embassy.
Who was watching the live feed from the drone? And what actions did those people take? How far up the chain of command did this news go?
Many heads should roll.
After New York Times White House correspondent Helene Cooper called the death of four Americans "peripheral to what's going on right now" on Meet the Press, Time magazine's Joe Klein told Face the Nation viewers this matter "has been like the October mirage - it really isn't an issue".
And then Thomas L Friedman says on Meet The Press...
To me, this is utterly contrived story in the sense that this is the end of the Obama’s foreign policy.
I cant help but think there has to be a coordinated effort to try to push the story off the headlines.
I mean the story stinks to high heaven and you are going to go out on your own spining spree and risk looking silly?
Or are these peoples political leanings so out of touch with reality that they believe what they are saying?
Either way these people are not credible.
All those representavives of the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist organizations were visiting the White House, for what reasons, exactly? So shit like this can go without a response?
The MB has gotten its hooks into the WH. Obama MUST go.
Lotta racism on this blog today.
It's so bad it makes even Pam Geller's accusation seem plausible.
campy said...
Lotta racism on this blog today.
Would you care to point out two or three of the worst examples?
Occam's Razor: Obama went to bed as the attack was happening. So, Obama was at the time unaware it lasted 7 hours, unaware there were military options to aid our people and was not asked to authorize such aid. This will turn out to be what they are hiding.
I have to say that Madison Man, from reading his posts over 5 years, is nothing if not principled. I dont agree with Madison Mans politics, but I have never heard him engage in ad hom attacks.
Garage: your comment is not worthy of you.
Campy probably believes criticizing Obama is inherently racist.
Madison Man would be a terrific Fox liberal. Always deferential to the GOP in return for a nice pat on the head for a job well done.
Are you suggesting that the 3:00 a.m. call was answered?
Of course you're not. All you've got is a stack of increasingly pathetic insults.
Was our very expensive best military in history really incapable of doing anything that day? I
Even some sort of presence AFTER the fact would have been justifiable.
Bingo Diogenes
@ David:
"If the attackers were a mob, as intelligence reported, then an F18 in afterburner, roaring like a lion, would unnerve them. This procedure was applied often in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars."
Dang - I should have followed the link (most times I do) before I made my comment.
I don't think it's the case that Obama "went to bed." I believe the attack started at 4pm D.C. time.
@garage mahal: Feel free to offer a substantive defense of the actions of the candidate you support instead of more snark.
Feel free to point out facts you think I need to defend. Remember: facts, not howler monkeys throwing their shit at people.
The Obama spin is bad but not worse than usual. I put it down to a mental illness rather than a desire to deceive anybody but himself.
As for helping, there's not much that could be done.
If you think of it (correctly) as a war, victory is called for, not retaliation. All that's complicating it is that it's a non-state enemy.
The enemy's plan in this instance is to make it too costly to keep an American presence in the area, which it may well do.
The American presence in turn is American intelligence, so it's sort of a defensive al Qaeda move in the end. They keep getting droned to death.
Here's the time line [or part] as laid out by Steyn at NRO:
The Superpower as Bystander
By Mark Steyn
October 22, 2012 1:59 P.M.
I would like to second what Andy McCarthy says about Bing West’s devastating post.
The attack on the Benghazi consulate began at 3.40pm Eastern time.
It was known the Ambassador was missing by 4.30pm.
Obama, Biden and Panetta met in the Oval Office at 5pm. We know Charlene Lamb at the State Dept was watching events in real time. It seems likely Panetta was, too – and perhaps even Obama.
When something bad happens at a consulate on the other side of the world, very few nations have the technological capability to watch it in real time.
Even fewer have fighter jets and special forces within less than 500 miles – or about the distance from Boston to Washington.
Yet the commander-in-chief chose to do nothing. He chose to let the enemy determine the course of events, how long the battle would last, how many Americans would die. The only choice he made was to hold a photo-op at their coffins.
That’s a metaphor for an enfeebled superpower: on 9/11/12, America had technological capability and military superiority, but no leadership. Instead, for eight hours, the most powerful men in Washington sat and watched but declined to act. And so in Benghazi as elsewhere in the Obama era, America is a spectator in its own fate.
The failure of leadership on 9/11 Round Two is pathetic, and the subsequent cover-up contemptible.
Given the deadly earnestness of this post and the lighter-than-air comment from Garage, y'all have all the information you'll ever need to consider whether any of his comments here should be taken seriously.
Testimony under oath established the fact that the State department -- at minimum -- watched this story unfold for over 6 hours. Where was the Commander in Chief and why wasn't he asked to sign off on some action to help our people in trouble?
This is a surprising story that causes concern, but I wonder if it is accurate as to the extent to which people in Washington could monitor in real time what was going on. I hope that Romney respectfully asks Obama about it tonight.
garage, all concerned about facts, except the ones he puts out. In other words, not any that conflate with his preconceived notion. So touchy these days garage, you are clearly desparate.
Plus, it boggles the mind that on that day, September 11th, the US government wasn't at a higher than normal security posture. If we were, then bog help us.
@ David:
"If the attackers were a mob, as intelligence reported, then an F18 in afterburner, roaring like a lion, would unnerve them. This procedure was applied often in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars."
It isn't a sound. It's another presence.
The point that they may just be trying to hide that Obama went to bed is interesting. But they could just lie about that, without a whole bunch of other lies. And, if it started at 4:00 Washington time, then it would have been over by about 11:00.
Tank said...
Why didn't Zero call up his "friend" Bibi and ask him to help out with some air and even ground support. The Israelis probably have men and women ready to move at a moments notice. Could they have been there in less than seven hours?
================
It's 1,045 miles from Tel Aviv to Benghazi. About 4 hours to assemble assets, 8 hours for Israelis to argue about doing it and the details and what their compensation would be.
More importantly:
1. Israel has never been in any joint ops with the US in any other war or conflict. 70 other nations, yes, Israel, no.
2. Even if Israel cared to act as an actual "Ally and indispensible friend", as their propaganda implies, but which they rarely do while operating the 3rd largest espionage operation in America next to the Chinese and Russians -
They are unusable.
They are a pariah nation. They would not be welcome in Libya, they are unusable as a US base of operations - we had to do without them or asking them for a logistics role even in the Gulf War or Iraq War.
It is a little late to be worrying about being charged with "interfering" in Libya.
And all this talk about how long it would take to "put assets on the ground" ignores the Libyan embassy's repeated warnings of impending trouble for several months before.
A prudent administration would at least have stationed emergency forces "over the horizon," even if they did not want to be seen overtly preparing military meeasures.
" garage mahal said...
@garage mahal: Feel free to offer a substantive defense of the actions of the candidate you support instead of more snark.
Feel free to point out facts you think I need to defend. Remember: facts, not howler monkeys throwing their shit at people."
1. The security team in Libya was reduced in spite of requests to keep it or increase it.
2. There were multiple attacks in Benghazi over the previous months.
3. The other consulates and offices of western organizations, even the Red Cross ! were closed.
4. The ambassador warned of danger the day he was murdered.
5. The State people watched the battle and saw no demonstration before the attack.\
6. The ambassador escorted the Turkish ambassador to the gate at 8:30 PM. No demonstration.
7. A call from an AQ officer was intercepted during the attack
However, the intercept was one of several monitored communications during and after the attacks between members of a local militia called Ansar al-Sharia and AQIM, which, taken together, suggest the assault was in fact a premeditated terrorist attack, according to U.S. intelligence and counter-terrorism officials not authorized to talk to the press.
In one of the calls, for example, members of Ansar al-Sharia bragged about their successful attack against the American consulate and the U.S. ambassador.
It’s unclear why the talking points said the attacks were spontaneous and why they didn’t mention the possibility of al Qaeda involvement, given the content of the intercepts and the organizations the speakers were affiliated with. One U.S. intelligence officer said the widely distributed assessment was an example of “cherry picking,” or choosing one piece of intelligence and ignoring other pieces, to support a preferred thesis..
Don't tell me the Daily Beast is a right wing site.
8. The attacks on Romney's statement after the Cairo demonstrations ignored the fact that he was talking about the embassy's ridiculous statement about the video and the fact that the Obama administration withdrew the embassy statement.
9. If Obama called the attack "an act of terrorism" as he alleges, why did he push the other story for two weeks ?
Obama has a "Do not disturb until after the election" sign at the door to the oval office.
Garage, I know you want Obama re-elected, but I don't see how you can support his performance with this Benghazi fiasco. It reads like a complete clusterf***.
If they were watching the live feed, why not send help? If they weren't watching the live feed, why is it there?
It doesn't matter if the President "literally" went to bed. The charge is that he was sufficiently distracted/uninvolved that a crisis hit and he just balked. He didn't perform. His judgment, his leadership is just not that good.
But this isn't a surprise. This is the guy that makes decisions by filling in a box on a checklist.
Pick One
A: Send in the marines in a futile gesture.
B: Play some b-ball, fill out his football picks, rest for Vegas.
Garage was just being garage..
A little bit too cute by half.
I don't think he meant any overt disrespect for MM.
Campy probably believes criticizing Obama is inherently racist.
Of course. Doesn't everybody?
(BTW, it's campy, not Campy. I use the lowercase c as a sign of humility.
I'm extremely proud of my humility.)
It's racist AND unconstitutional to challenge Other Barry. Can't you just let him eat his waffles?
Leftists say you are not supposed to Question Authority.
The Putins, Ayatollahs, and Al qaeda's are all holding their fire "until after the reelection of the Surrrender-in-Chief promises of Obama.
Once he is back in for 4 more years they will run wild.
But Romney is the sound of the JAWS soundtrack in their ears.
I say we elect Romney just to see what they will do if an American President says no to their world domination visions.
After watching Argo last night, as well as Khartoum in the past, I'm almost of the opinion that ALL embassy personnel should be Marines or other such light infantry MOS, who when an embassy is attacked are under orders to resist until the last man. The Embassy itself is wired into telemetry from the staff and when it ceases to get a signal indicating that someone is on premises and alive, it self destructs.
Synova,
"The problem with a four hour response time is that it only works if you start responding right away. So someone has to decide right at the onset to send help"
You would think that as soon as they knew about the attack, messages would have been sent to assets in the region to upgrade their alert status.
If the military was included on the initial messages, they would likely go to a higher state of readiness without waiting for instructions from Washington.
Garage is a treasure. He actually translates from Debbie Wasserman Schultz lingo for our benefit and lets us understand the Progressives latest memes are.
President Romney should consider consider sending Garage to Havanna as Ambassador to Cuba.
Wisconsin Libra!
But Garage may be too smart to stand an Ambasssador's post... like Uriah the Hittite did when sent by King David.
"The Israelis probably have men and women ready to move at a moments notice. Could they have been there in less than seven hours?"
Israel is quite a distance from Benghazi. I don't know if that would be practical. But that's a good point. Situations like this are exactly what regional allies are for.
Of course, those allies have to be pretty confident that you'll share accurate information with them, provide political cover during the operation, and vouch for their actions in the aftermath. I don't think any of our allies trusts the US to do any of those things anymore.
The Special Report (yessssss, Fox News) by Bret Baier on Benghazi, broadcast Friday night and again last night, is devastating in details large and small. We had a mobile Sight Security Team made up of 16 former special ops guys. The best of the best that were paid by DOD to provide auxiliary security for diplomatic personnel.
That team was withdrawn (on a State Dept- mandated schedule) from Libya at the end of August despite pleas from their commander, the people in Tripoli and Stevens himself. The commander was even a bit understated, when he answered a question by saying that these SST men "can make a difference in any firefight." You bet they would!
We didn't have to be on a "war footing" as some comments here seem to suggest, just to maintain security. Hell, all the administration had to do was leave the people in place who were already there!
c4, you're usually pretty smart, but in the mist of fog caused by your hatred of Israel and the Jews, I fear you severely underestimate what Israel could do, and how fast they could do it.
That being said, my comment was addressed more to the idea of whether Bibi would help Zero, after the "respect" he's been shown. For a different President, he might bend over backwards, but for Zero, not so much.
The Special Report (yessssss, Fox News) by Bret Baier on Benghazi, broadcast Friday night and again last night, is devastating in details large and small.
Only committed wingnuts watch Faux Noise.
CNN, NY Times and NPR are The Holy Trinity for independents.
So, they have real-time footage of the terrorist attack on our Libyan embassy and still called it a spontaneous attack in response to a movie that allegedly insulted Muslims. Well, that's not optimal.
Where's Code Pink when we need them?
I'm calling for Code Red moms to raise hell about the sons lost in this epic government failure!!
If they were watching the live feed, why not send help?
So, instead of swallowing a column from "Bing West", from the National Review Online, who uses no source material for his column, why not use your scientific mind?
Where's Code Pink when we need them?
I'm calling for Code Red moms to raise hell about the sons lost in this epic government failure!!
"Even some sort of presence AFTER the fact would have been justifiable."
Yeah, what's up with that? Why was the Benghazi consulate left abandoned and unsecured for days (a week? more?) after the attack?
If I ever wanted a twister partner, I'd pick Garage. Why? Because if he can twist into any position on the twister mat like he does covering for Urkel, why we would win every time. The political contortionism that he displays here should make him a viable asset for any twister match.
At what point in this timeline did someone on Obama's staff decide to release a tweet criticizing Mitt Romney?
Did they ever perhaps consider calling him and telling him what was happening? The way Bush made sure Obama had some say in the TARP legislation?
"So, instead of swallowing a column from "Bing West",..."
Charlene Lamb testified that they were watching in real-time.
@ Campy: The viewership for Fox is highest among independents (who make up the majority of the electorate as well).
@ Bryan C on the 12th, after the attack on the "annex" a mile from the consulate, all personnel were pulled out of Benghazi and we abandoned the leased properties completely. So completely, that three days later CNN found Steven's diary just laying there. So completely, that the footage of Greg Palkot walking through the very barred window the consulate staff used to escape the fire was still hanging in the breeze last week.
We bugged out, sending a very interesting signal to the local militias.
Bryan C and Mike-
It doesn't make sense, does it? Especially if we thought it was just some mob unhappy about the movie, why would we then completely abandon the consulate?
Why not a bunch of marines on the ground to hold it until the FBI could get there?
I think the takeaway lesson here is to hope Assad crushes his rebellion otherwise al Quaeda and other Islamist radicals will have another country to set up shop.
After all, there wasn't ant al Quaeda in Libya until Obama helped topple Ghaddafi.
Charlene Lamb testified that they were watching in real-time.
Charlene Lamb is a racist wingnut.
(Just saving you time, GM)
"passively"????
watched "passively"??
what moronic horseshit.
" garage mahal said...
If they were watching the live feed, why not send help?
So, instead of swallowing a column from "Bing West", from the National Review Online, who uses no source material for his column, why not use your scientific mind? "
Have you read any of Bing West's books ? Do you know anything about him. I've met him and his wife and read his books. I don't need NRO to know that he is reliable.
Only leftist pacifists agree with you. That statement, of course, may be redundant.
George Orwell (surely you've heard of him) said; " People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." Even your behalf.
It's not optimal, but what the heck?
"But the most severe failure has gone unnoticed: namely, a failure to aid the living."
posted by Ann Althouse at 12:01 PM
That's dramatic, Ann. But how many of those six hours do you think the four were "living"?
Not like your movies, hun...
-exhelodrvr1
NAS Sigonella Sicily is a short hop across the Med. Much closer than Israel. Wonder if they have anything there that could have helped?
"passively"????
watched "passively"??
what moronic horseshit.
Hey, guys, Lynn has a scoop!
C'mon, give with it, Lynn! Tell us what active measures the administration took based on the live feed.
What? THere wer none? Say again?
Oh. I get it. You're just lashing out. Flailing. "Moronically."
Naples Naval Air Station isn't THAT far - I'm sure we could have had some sort of air assets there before the whole sordid mess was over
"passively"????
watched "passively"??
what moronic horseshit.
Maybe they tweeted something.
Drudge Report is begging for your deconstruction - why is Simon Cowell plugging his ears??
I think we have our proverbial "smoking gun", if only Romney has the testicles to use this tonight.
Does he have the BALLS?
I wish I could say this is unbelievable.
But it is all too believable.
How can anyone defend this behavior?
"So, instead of swallowing a column from "Bing West",..."
"Charlene Lamb testified that they were watching in real-time."
Geez, it's just gettin' too easy to beat the crap outta garage. Plus, just look at that picture of Obumbles in a .... cowboy hat????
I think garage is just mailin' it in....
Mary spews...
That's dramatic, Ann. But how many of those six hours do you think the four were "living"?
Not like your movies, hun...
Says the paid DNC troll.
tradguy - you're always on the right side of things except for St. Trayvon.
I wonder if "AReasonableMan" will be back for the Althouse liveblogging of tonight's debate?
It just wouldn't be the same without Obumbles' operatives desperately trying to spin their master's gaffes into something a bit less gaffetastic...
Oh yeah.
Bob Schieffer will defend this response.
And garage.
Lesly the porno girl.
Inga the she wolf.
The usual suspects.
But I don't think regular everyday Americans will stand for this.
Even Honey Boo Boo could see that this is really, really wrong.
I wonder... when that 3am call came in... was it Hillary answering it after all?
Lesly the porno girl.
Inga the she wolf.
The usual suspects.
What else would you expect BZ?
I would hope that even they would ask some questions about this.
But that is too much to ask.
Drudge Report is begging for your deconstruction - why is Simon Cowell plugging his ears??
It might have something to do with this...
But we are getting off the subject.
What did he know and when did he know it?
At 5 p.m., President Obama met with Vice President Biden and Secretary of Defense Panetta in the Oval Office. The U.S. military base in Sigonella, Sicily, was 480 miles away from Benghazi.
Obama made a horrible decision and when the deaths occurred, he and his administration went into "cover-up mode. That is lying, don't you know.
There should be no other discussion during the foreign policy debate. Any answer that Romney gives should not be in response to the question but should refer to the October Surprise that has been covered up for more than a month.
This is the sort of thing that happens with a 'student government takeover' of the White House. A bunch of giddy fools get the helm for a while and put all their giddy, foolish friends in places of responsibility.
So long as nothing actually happens, everyone struts around feeling extremely pleased with themselves.
Then something happens, and all they can do is sit and watch the TV and wonder what the adults who are really in charge will do to take care of everything.
Whoops! No adults in the room!
So they sit and watch, and then use the powerful tools they have been given to try and cover their asses with no conception of long-term consequences beyond the next 15 minutes or so.
That is, and will be, the 'story' in the history books of this administration.
@ Mary (who said " But how many of those six hours do you think the four were 'living'?"
Well, the ambassador, the IT guy and one security guy were in the safe room of the consulate while the attackers continued shelling and shooting for over 60 minutes at which point they entered the residence and determined that the bars keeping them from the safe room could not be breached. They started a fire with diesel dumped into the living area, which filled the residence with smoke, and after about 30 minutes the security officer broke through a small bathroom window so they could make a run for one of the outbuildings (where additional security members were waiting out the attack by the mob).
The security guy made repeated trips into the smoke-filled residence to retrieve Stevens and Smith (Sean Smith the IT guy), but was only able to find Smith's body in the safe room. He never did locate Stevens, although he suffered severe smoke inhalation attempting to rescue him.
So about 2 to 2 1/2 hours into the attack two people -- the ambassador and Smith -- were both likely deceased.
The remaining security team members created a diversion, loaded Smith's body and the surviving agent into an armored vehicle and raced to the annex (a safe house) a mile away. This location then came under organized assault by the same attackers, and about 3 hours later the last two casualties were suffered when two security team members were hit directly by mortar fire. After dawn a Libyan support team arrived and the survivors of both attacked left in two aircraft, along with the four bodies (Stevens' body had been recovered at a local hospital that morning).
Sub-optimal indeed.
Perhaps a pertinent question should be:
Mr. President, what plans did you have in place to prevent the power vacum in Libya after you decided to engage in regime change against a nation that did not attack us nor posed an imminent threat.
Why is anyone surprised? These people don't care about the living. They care about their ideas. If you happen to be helped as they act on their ideas, consider yourself lucky. Because rest assured they don't give a rat's ass about you as a person.
This revelation doesn't surprise me in the least. Fuck Obama. Fuck Hillary. I've developed an intense hatred of the two of them.
I wonder what members of the military think of Obama's leadership versus what they think of a potential Romney administration? They would probably know more than right wing bloggers know?
Armed Forces Show Overwhelming Support for Obama
How can anyone defend this behavior?
I was going to say, just watch garage, but you figured it out and garage does not disappoint.
Garage - the link you use gives donations as of Aug. 31, not votes. How about a more recent poll of the military which shows Romeny leading 2 - 1? Pissant.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/10/military-times-poll-romney-bests-obama-2-1-100712/
This is nothing that Barry can do that will not be defended to death by garage, the porno girl, Inga et al.
Defended to the death of our foreign service personal.
I guess it was just a TV show to Zero. It wasn't real. His brothers in the Muslim Brotherhood wouldn't do this to him when he helped them get power. He just couldn't believe his lying eyes.
Plus he had to catch some z's before the trip to Vegas.
garage,
I believe the most recent poll showed projected military votes 66-26 Romney-Obama.
According to his autobiography, Robert S. [for Strange] McNamara, JFK/LBJ's Sec/Def ackowledged to himself--given his 'rules of war' that Viet Nam was a 'lost war'. At that point in time there were 20,000 American KIA's. He/LBJ/Joint Chiefs continued the fight, losing another 34,000 American KIA's. It is a very small price to pay--4 State Dept troops to be able to prove to the American people how much loved our Dear Leader is everywhere His name is spoken. Barrack Hussein Obama, Mmmm, Mmmm, Mmmm. Just wish Anne would do one of her instant polls to see if I should vote twice this election. Twice for Obama? Twice for Romney? Or split like Meadhouse, lol.
garage mahal said...
I wonder what members of the military think of Obama's leadership versus what they think of a potential Romney administration? They would probably know more than right wing bloggers know?
Armed Forces Show Overwhelming Support for Obama
Suuure.
That's why, like every election from 2000 on, the Demos are doing everything they can to suppress the military vote.
Uh oh, things must be really grim. garage is down to recycling Allie Oops' old (already debunked) comments.
When lives hang in the balance, and minutes matter, a decision must be made.
The least experienced man ever nominated and then elected president voted "Present."
And people died.
While he watched.
#VoteObama:DoubleDownonFailure
Obama's record on defense is almost as bad as the 49er's.
And that's really saying something.
That Military Times Poll? Here's an interesting fact: "Respondents rated the economy and the candidates’ character as their most important considerations and all but ignored the war in Afghanistan as an issue of concern."
Shorter Miltary Times Poll take away: Our military think Obama has poor character.
Of course they do.
The are trained to observe their situation.
They know exactly who their commander-in-chief is, and cannot wait, by a 2-1 margin, to replace him with someone of higher character.
Of course, for the trolls, that means nothing.
Hmm, so the WH was watching RPGs and mortar rounds falling and decided it was a spontaneous protest?
It just dawns on me...
The Benghazi drone looks like an Obama flyover.
Garage - the link you use gives donations as of Aug. 31, not votes. How about a more recent poll of the military which shows Romeny leading 2 - 1? Pissant.
So you trust a poll over hard donations, eh?
Somehow, I don't think this survey of 3100 respondents is an accurate representation of our military as a whole:
The 3,100 respondents — roughly two-thirds active-duty and one-third reserve component members — are about 80 percent white and 91 percent male. Forty percent are in paygrades E-5 through E-8, while more than 35 percent are in paygrades O-3 through O-5.
Baron Zemo said...
"Obama's record on defense is almost as bad as the 49er's."
Dude.
Don't be an idiot, and don't be a troll.
Although both suit your avatar.
So if the White House was listening to and watching the attack in real time and it went on for 7 hours, that means he went to bed DURING the attack.
Insanity.
If that Dilbert guy needs another firing offense, here it is.
"The 3,100 respondents — roughly two-thirds active-duty and one-third reserve component members — are about 80 percent white and 91 percent male. Forty percent are in paygrades E-5 through E-8, while more than 35 percent are in paygrades O-3 through O-5."
Idiot troll doesn't understand the poll was of the "professional military."
There's a meaningful distinction there, but I won't bother to explain it for it would be a waste of time to do so.
Dude.
Don't be a loser.
Don't be overrated.
Although both suit your avatar.
It now appears that Garage is fighting harder than Obama did for our people on that fateful 9/11/12.
What a shame.
BTW garage..
You are going to need a bigger squirrel.
idiot troll doesn't understand the poll was of the "professional military."
LOL. That was my kind of my point, Einstein.
I asked this last week?
What has the Obama administration done in response to the attack on the Embassy and the murder of the Ambassador?
It was horrible that at the point I asked it last time, the answer was, "Nothing".
Add on another batch of fund-raisers and campaign stops, and the answer still is:
Nothing.
Even worse, the only response they've taken at all to the general attacks on our embassies worldwide is purchase advertisements apologizing for the YouTube video.
All of the top leaders of the Obama Administration should be in jail.
I don't say that lightly.
"What has the Obama administration done in response to the attack on the Embassy and the murder of the Ambassador?"
They locked up a guy who made a video and denied him bond in order to hold him until after the election. So there's that.
Dayumm! God himself (Morgan Freeman) is narrating the latest Obama comercial. Hate it when genius is in service to evil.
garage also doesn't understand that the campaign contributions did not separate civilian employees of the military from active duty military.
Anything under "DoD" is civilian. Civilians inside the DC Beltway, as civil servants, tend to vote for the party that expands the govt.
Not to mention, liberals tend to give more campaign contributions than conservatives, since conservatives prefer to give their money to charity and church instead...and politics is the main religion of liberals.
So garage's "scoop" is, as pretty much everything he shares, a distortion, a misrepresentation, and a misunderstanding of the truth.
So you trust a poll over hard donations, eh?
Are you just trying to prove how dumb you are?
Donations don't count at the ballot box. So you got a few big spenders at the Pentagon, etc who are hard core Dems, some most likely appointed to their position. Naturally, they're trying to continue their graft.
The scariest place this halloween is at an American Embassy under the protection of president Obama.
garage mahal said...
I wonder what members of the military think of Obama's leadership versus what they think of a potential Romney administration? They would probably know more than right wing bloggers know?
Armed Forces Show Overwhelming Support for Obama
If all else fails try a little misdirection eh?
Shouldn't you be cleaning toilets or something?
Why was the Benghazi consulate left abandoned and unsecured for days (a week? more?) after the attack?
More like three weeks, the amount of time it took for the first FBI team to arrive. "Crime-scene contamination is an understatement.
So you got a few big spenders at the Pentagon, etc who are hard core Dems, some most likely appointed to their position
Yea I'm sure that's the most probable explanation.
Where is the outrage? Romney should hit this hard tonight.
National security is job one for the president. I am undecided but this certainly pushes me away from Obama.
Let's see what Romney has to say.
Yea I'm sure that's the most probable explanation.
Um, yes. Actually, yes, it is.
I'm not so worried for you now, GM, not now that I know you live on Bizzarro Earth.
"Reality-based community" FTW!
In defence of garage:
If I was him... I change the subject too.
Over and over as I read through the comments here, I see the same basic question(s): Why not send help? Where was the military? Why the low, low, ever so low face on this embassy when for months they were sending for help?
When you keep looking at a siuation and it just doesn't make sense...eventually you must realize, you are missing a piece of the puzzle. There is essential information missing, preventing you from seeing the answer.
What's missing? There's a deal. Obama has made a deal with Putin. It involves the entire Mid East, nukes, pullback of US from the area, NATO dissolution, Israel agreement...the whole 9 yrds. Obama asked for time, after the election. He was demonstrating his intent to back out, signaling we're out. To go in at that point would have blown the deal. The means always justify the ends. He'd be able to go public with firm deal after the election, as he assured Putin in the off the mic moment.
We didn't save the living, because Obama's ends are justified to him by sacrificing a few lives (means).
Alex said...
Mary spews...
That's dramatic, Ann. But how many of those six hours do you think the four were "living"?
Not like your movies, hun...
Says the paid DNC troll.
10/22/12 2:36 PM"
LOL> You write this stuff yourself, huh?? "Got any free condoms, meeester?"
How'd I do?
Where I get my pay?
Dumbfuck.
I'm not so worried for you now, GM, not now that I know you live on Bizzarro Earth.
Haha. And I suppose all the donations that went heavily to Ron Paul early on meant the military was itching for a trigger happy neocon influenced Mitt Romney as well.
Bizarro Earth indeed.
Don't you guys ever get off?
Oy.
*jerk, jerk, jerk*
Come on.
Yes you can.
The military always votes republican by a rough 2 to 1 margin.
It's why it was so important to Gore/Lieberman to ensure as many military ballots as possible were excluded from the recount.
When you actually get to what it is that garage is spouting off about, it appears to be about $1Million raised for candidates by the combined military/civilian DOD.
That comes out to about .75cents per member.
Of course, after Benghazi, there are 2 less Romney voters/SEALs available to vote or contribute.
Which garage probably considers a feature, not a bug, of the obama policy.
Oh, give him a kiss already, garage.
You know they want it...
Watching passively (as opposed to actively) I think means to ann they tivo'ed through the commercials...
Yea I'm sure that's the most probable explanation.
Tell me, why do we have Gallup, Rasmussen, etc when all we need to do is look at donations? As Ann pointed out earlier, Obama's out raised Rommney. Of course, a lot of that is illegal foreign money on Obama's part. People that can't vote until they illegally immigrate.
"AllenS said...
This revelation doesn't surprise me in the least. Fuck Obama. Fuck Hillary. I've developed an intense hatred of the two of them."
Sadly, it will probably be someone else -- someone like ambassador Stevens -- who will be fucked in their place...
Too big to fuck, and all that ...
It is hard to see why anyone would be surprised that this is how the cunting Democrat chieftain would handle this situation. I am most sorry for the parents of our deployed forces - it is sickening enough to know your son is sitting on a sand hill in Afghanistan watching the locals fuck their camels without the added fear that when the shooting starts again the CINC and his minions will not have his back. Having been that parent through three deployments, I would like to send a special fuck you to the Democrats who work to facilitate defeat while our troops are in the field and under fire.
Of course, I think that if obama really "applies himselt", buckles down and shows that he will truly not stand for any cuts to Big Bird, or Sandra Fluke's birth control or for any other persons name/resume/background etc to ever be placed within a binder, then it's possible that obama could trim Romneys "slender" 40 point advantage amongst military members to a more manageable 39%.
http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2012/10/military-times-poll-romney-bests-obama-2-1-100712/
snip: "Poll results indicate that about 66 percent of those surveyed support Romney, compared with about 26 percent who say they will vote to re-elect President Obama."
By the way, if you read the article you might come away wondering why the writing sounds so much like the rest of the MSM.
If you are curious about that, don't be. The Military Times (along with all the other service "Times") are owned by Gannett Media.
Gannett Media.
Same old same old.
"Why was the Benghazi consulate left abandoned and unsecured for days (a week? more?) after the attack?"
For the same reason the local militia security wasn't willing to contract in immediately when it went from a search to recovery mission:
ain't our country, dummy.
Y'all seem to forget that.
"Why didn't they dial 9-11?"
"Why didn't we roll in with armored tanks?"
"Why do they hate us, Mommy?"
You're here talking military strategy on a Madison professor lady's blog? Think about it now... Go watch a movie? I hear "argo" is hot right now.
Obama let it all happen. On purpose. And fist-bumped The First Klingon about it.
Obama was happy to have those Americans die and U.S. be embarrassed worldwide. The whitey-hating darkie learned from Jeremiah Wright that whitey's plantation should be burned to the ground, above all else.
Deal with it.
Of course, a lot of that is illegal foreign money on Obama's part.
Conservatism in a nutshell these days. One giant pointy Tin Foil hat.
Gonna be a long 4 more years.
"it is sickening enough to know your son is sitting on a sand hill in Afghanistan watching the locals fuck their camels without the added fear ..."
Come now.
Junior wanted to go and watch locals fuck camels. Wanted to get out of mommy and daddy's house and get that "added fear".
Else, he woulda stayed home.
*jerk, jerk, jerk...*
Oh I got it.
You've all got rings on, waiting for tonight.
Enjoy your foreplay, gentlemen.
I think we're at the point where someone is close to carving a B on their face.
@garbage pail:
Remind me of your "pointy tinfoil hat" argument when Michael Moore/Al Sharpton/Ed Schultz start talking.
Or when someone claims Iraq was started for oil.
Or that Israel's secretly tricking us into fighting Iran.
Or that Romney's going to re-institute slavery on black people (thanks Plagiarizing Joe).
Of course, lefties always claim that they don't have tinfoil hats, no sirree.
You're here talking military strategy on a Madison professor lady's blog? Think about it now...
I'm thinking about that you could not pass her class.
@garbage:
I think we're at the point where someone is close to carving a B on their face.
---lol. Now Garbage is resorting to implying that this is no big deal and anyone attacking the great and wonderful O on this issue is purely a hypocritical , overreacting Puritan.
"Nothing to see here! All is well! Stop being so dramatic, tin foilers! A few dead Americans, and destroyed consultae, Obama knew about it well ahead of time? Not Obama's fault!"
No wonder Garbage's kid is in trouble. Probably had a severed arm caused by being thrown under Obama's bus, and he told her it was no big deal---just a flesh wound in service to Mein Obama, she shouldn't try to carve a scarlet letter into the man!
squirrel!
Pretty unsat past just the SAVING!! of the two in the main house (Ambassador and Smith) being dicey with the time constraints.
1. Forces should have been moved offshore and to the airport to assist in rescue and evac of the people at the annex, who apparantly fought heroically and appeared to have escaped, less the two ex-SEALs on the quick response team nailed by a perfectly targeted mortar.
2. Forces should have been deployed to track and bag the Islamoids - despite the utter terror Democrats have of capturing and interrogating enemy and somehow violating their precious enemy rights.
3. Obama jetting off after a sound night's sleep to be refreshed for his fundraiser and Beyonce celeb gala. This was worse than Katrina, because this was a Flyover that wasn't just about 4 dead..it was the symbol of the Ambassdaor gone, other Americans in peril there, in Tunisia, Yemen, Egypt. And Americans menaced in 7 other embassies due to the Copt scumbag's video. The policy implications of the "Arab Spring " in ruins on how the Egyptian and Tunisian leadership let the attacks continue to teach the US a lesson about Prophet-blasphemy and how out of control Libya was, the ongoing danger in Yemen, the Sudan, etc.
It was multiple events, not just the Benghazi bit.
And Urkle jetted off, then worked up a deceit with staff that it was all just "a random senseless act of violence" story.
BTW, one huge point that is so blindingly obvious it is overlooked. As in most cultures, ARABS DON'T DO ORGANIZED OR SPONTANEOUS PROTESTS IN THE DEAD OF THE NIGHT. Who the fuck has seen many spontaneous protests after dark - people want to be seen, filmed, and draw others to join that are out and about in daytime.
Night is when you get together to not protest, but do crime or attacks - SO YOU WON'T BE FUCKING FILMED, SEEN, ID'D!!
That single fact ought have been enough to discredit the "spontaneous protest leading to tragic senseless violence" story.
Mom and Dad were divorced and Junior was already living on his own, so fuck you Mary. :)
garage mahal said...
I wonder what members of the military think of Obama's leadership versus what they think of a potential Romney administration? They would probably know more than right wing bloggers know?
Armed Forces Show Overwhelming Support for Obama
ROFL!!! Left, elbow, blue.
Christy said...
Dayumm! God himself (Morgan Freeman) is narrating the latest Obama comercial. Hate it when genius is in service to evil.
Well, when you host a pop-sci show like Through the Wormhole, then anything is possible in double-rainbow fantasy alternate reality land.
"The White House, the Pentagon, the State Department, and numerous military headquarters monitored the entire battle in real time via the phone calls from Benghazi and video from a drone overhead."
BFD ...this is news on 22 October?
Several of us said the same thing or equivalent days ago, weeks ago.
Wordy as I usually am, I'll skip this one....the prior official lies suborning it makes me feel to puke.
Obama had out of date intelligence on Libya. But that's OK when you lead from behind
Forget answering phone at 0300. This guy can't answer the phone at 0900.
NOw, Ann, NOW will you vote against Obama?
Oso Negro said...
I am most sorry for the parents of our deployed forces
So you've noticed the 100% increase of US fatalities in Afghanistan since May 2010. 1000 dead from October 2001 to May 2010. From May 2010 another 1000 dead were added. That's 1000 dead for 9.5 years of the war, and another 1000 in just 17 months.
W.T.F?
Yeah, I DO feel sorry for the parents of the deployed, but more sorry for the deployed themselves.
Oso - "Mary" is a troll. Ignore her. Prayers for your son.
Oh I see Garage beat me to it, LOL!
garage mahal said...
I wonder what members of the military think of Obama's leadership versus what they think of a potential Romney administration? They would probably know more than right wing bloggers know?
Lets figure this out. We have about 3 million uniformed militarily that have donated all of $678,611 to the Zero. Being kind, lets assume that each donor gave $10, therefore 68,000 of the 3 mil likes Obama - that is 2.25% of our armed forces - WOW!
On the other hand, the Republicans had more than one presidential candidate. We don't know what amount was received by all Republicans but the website lets the cat out of the bag: between Romney and Ron Paul, there was $698,175 and under the my formula, Republicans win with 2.33% of the military. Comprende??
Inga,
First of all, even in the campaign donations, the amount going to Obama isn't "overwhelming".
Second, the campaign donations include (and quite possibly may be solely from) civilians working for the departments. The article doesn't make any distinctions clear.
So to say that the military overwhelmingly supports Obama is just plain daft, misleading and dishonest.
Are you really going to claim you believe the article, or are you just stirring shit?
Who is your daughter going to vote for, do you know?
Yes, Nathan, my daughter is a Democrat and will vote for Obama, as will many of the Marines and Navy troops she works with. Sorry Nathan it is what it is.
Oh I see Garage beat me to it, LOL!
And once again, let me just say all those civilian DoD contractors in NoVA and Maryland are gonna be very, very surprised to learn they're in the military...
Yes, Nathan, my daughter is a Democrat and will vote for Obama, as will many of the Marines and Navy troops she works with. Sorry Nathan it is what it is.
I think it's sweet how she lies to you to spare your feelings, even though she's an adult.
Rocketeer, funny, but simply not true. She has been a Democrat for many years, more liberal than I am even.
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