Althouse: "I mean, you know, the debate, I think it’s fair to say I was just too polite..."

October 10, 2012

"I mean, you know, the debate, I think it’s fair to say I was just too polite..."

"... But, you know, the good news is, is that’s just the first one."

All right, then. Niceness flopped, so be a jerk next time. Oh, I'm kidding. He said he was too nice. Next time he'll be nice enough.

179 comments:

John said...: After 3+ years as a failed president I doubt being nice will have the desired effect.; 10/10/12, 3:17 PM
Hagar said...: So far, Obama's tough talk has all been to admiring crowds of his supporters, while he takes a much more statesman-like tone when actually facing the objects of his scorn.; 10/10/12, 3:19 PM
Nonapod said...: I guess liberals wanted him to challenge Romney on his "lies" (like that 5 trillion in midclass taxes thing?), and bring up the 47%, cuz that's a real zinger or whatever.; 10/10/12, 3:19 PM
Bryan C said...: I didn't realize that providing coherent, factual and responsive answers was considered to be so rude. No wonder those guys on MSNBC were so upset with Romney. What a douchebag!; 10/10/12, 3:22 PM
Eric said...: I like Ace's comment on this:

I don't have to go into detail about why the CritiBrag -- the claim of self-criticism which, oddly enough, winds up being a brag on one's virtue -- is kinda sorta complete 100% bullshit."; 10/10/12, 3:24 PM
Eric said...: Also, Althouse, if you haven't been to Ace's site today you might be interested in a criticism of Frankfurt feminism. Or maybe not.; 10/10/12, 3:25 PM
furious_a said...: ...while he takes a much more statesman-like tone when actually facing the objects of his scorn.

...except for daring Eric to call his bluff, or inviting the Demo side of the chamber to stand and jeer the Supremes.; 10/10/12, 3:26 PM
Ipso Fatso said...: Althouse don't worry, in the end you will vote for him anyway.; 10/10/12, 3:27 PM
m stone said...: it’s hard to sometimes just keep on saying and what you’re saying isn’t true

The man's got a way with words, no doubt. Isn't this self-incrimination?; 10/10/12, 3:27 PM
Matt Sablan said...: It is like the first 30 minutes of the debate, where Obama had to be called out on his repeated lies, is totally ignored. Obama tried not being polite at the start, he was smacked down utterly in a perfectly frank, sincere manner.; 10/10/12, 3:31 PM
rehajm said...: He continued, "And, you know, I think it’s fair to say that we will see a little more activity at the next one."

Activity? Given the town hall format, you know it's coming, Ann:

'What about the Dingell Norwood bill?; 10/10/12, 3:34 PM
Rumpletweezer said...: Wait. I thought he thought he won the debate. Who makes excuses for winning the debate? I have to sit down now. I think I've got whiplash.; 10/10/12, 3:36 PM
David said...: Nice my ass. He was acting contemptuous. It showed.; 10/10/12, 3:36 PM
Michael said...: Obama has not the balls to be hostile to Romney. Obama knows, has always known , his limits. Thus he prefers to be hostile when there can be no rebuttal; 10/10/12, 3:39 PM
test said...: What do you say when the opposition is learning the wrong lesson?

Pass the popcorn, this is getting fun!; 10/10/12, 3:40 PM
Shanna said...: This is like saying in an interview that your biggest negative is that you just work too hard.

IOW, Bullshit :); 10/10/12, 3:40 PM
cubanbob said...: Obama is going to be not so nice the next time? Great!
Gonna be good TV.; 10/10/12, 3:44 PM
Anonymous said...: I sincerely hope he actually believes this. It will do him in in the next debate.

The last debate is on foreign policy. That should get ugly.; 10/10/12, 3:48 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: "... But, you know, the good news is, is that’s just the first one."

I mentioned a few days ago that only twice has the winner of the first debate went on to be president, so Obama's got some historical back-up for this statement.

As Glenn Reynolds says - and most of you have already long-ago forgotten:

"Don't get cocky"...; 10/10/12, 3:49 PM
traditionalguy said...: want to see a debate between Obama and Steve Winn.

The raw facts of economic survival or death for Americans cannot forever be hidden behind a nice half African teleprompter reader's appearance so worshiped by the left.

IMO the economic dollar collapse is set to go off like a building bing imploded and it is set for Romney's term so that Bill and Hillary can come to the rescue 4 years later.

That's why CNN and other media are starting to tell some of the truth about the Marxist Clown.; 10/10/12, 3:50 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: Romney's already surpassed McCain.

He's refused to lay down and die in the greater interest of the crusade to end racism.

Let's see what Obama is made of now that he knows the opponent will fight back. This will be a first.; 10/10/12, 3:50 PM
Michael K said...: This one will be even more fun to watch. Maybe Obama should wear his bicycle helmet if he's ready to "rumble."

Romney's got his number. He's the father that Obama never had.; 10/10/12, 3:51 PM
yashu said...: The day after the debate, Althouse suggested one reason why Obama didn't go for the 47% and other favorite anti-Romney memes, and I agree: Obama knew that Romney would be prepared for them, would have a good answer and a potentially powerful counterattack, and then those memes would be disabled for good.

Even now, as we can see, that's the game they're playing. Obama's "too nice" to point out Romney's "lies" during the actual debate (when he would have to back up that charge with actual arguments, and Romney would be able to defend himself in turn); but after the debate he and all his surrogates can go around just calling Romney a liar, liar, liar.

That suits them just fine; only problem is that the impression left by Romney's performance transcended their subsequent chanting of "lie." (Also the fact that, for all the big Romney lies they keep vaguely referring to, their big comeback after the debate is: Big Bird... sort of drains their credibility.) NB They did the same thing after Ryan's convention speech, arguably the best convention speech and Ryan's first big introduction to much of the country: all the MSM/Dem talk the next day was Ryan's "lies," a charge which was full of crap, a lie itself. But it kept them from talking about the content of Ryan's speech, or how good it/ he was.

This second debate is in some ways more amenable to a "less nice" Obama, because (if I understand correctly) the time for responses is more limited, they will be moving from one topic to another more quickly, there won't be as much back-and-forth. So Obama can more safely throw out anti-Romney attack lines, because Romney will have less opportunity to exhaustively rebut them.

On the other hand, it's a town hall, where it's more about connecting with and responding to citizens, and in that setting attacking the other guy might not come off too well.; 10/10/12, 3:54 PM
jimbino said...: "But, you know, the good news is, is that’s just the first one."

Can't we get together and put out to pasture all those who keep saying "...is, is...," including our verbally challenged President?; 10/10/12, 3:59 PM
Toad Trend said...: Long on excuses and blame.

Short on results.

This is the M.O. of most adolescents.

If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably isn't just a turkey.; 10/10/12, 4:03 PM
Amartel said...: "Next time he'll be nice enough."

Remember the Hillary!!!; 10/10/12, 4:03 PM
edutcher said...: Ann, are you moonlighting as a copywriter for Barry?

(somebody figured it was as good a shot as anything); 10/10/12, 4:15 PM
Sammy said...: Obama is the representative of this generation..

. No wonder college kids voted for him... He gets his ass handed to him, in the nicest way possible, Romney was actually nice, after a year of all the shit Axelrod & Co have pulled on Romney.

Obama was immature, sour and repetitive and let's be honest no depth, just repeated all his talking points for the last few years....... And this is his big take away from the debate , he lost because he was too nice and the big liar , liar Romney wasn't nice...... Delusional or what.

What gets me is if Romney was so egregiously lying, why couldn't you prove it Wonder Boy, you know, how Romney demolished all your stupid stump speech talking points.

You have to convince people some else is lying .. You need , yo' know, facts to back you up.. Calling someone a liar , isn't going to cut it.

I've never, ever, ever wanted a politician to lose a election as badly has I want Obama to lose this election.; 10/10/12, 4:17 PM
garage mahal said...: Obama has not the balls to be hostile to Romney

I thought Obama was a ball busting Chicago style politics tyrant? You need to have a head on a swivel like Linda Blair to keep up with the contradictory shit on this blog.

Ex:

"Obama is a gigantic narcissist who will do anything to win!"

"Does Obama even want to win?"; 10/10/12, 4:18 PM
TWM said...: Barry's problem is the weakness of his record, not his style.; 10/10/12, 4:21 PM
Hagar said...: Obama is an agitator; he prefers for someone else to do the actual ball-busting.; 10/10/12, 4:23 PM
SteveR said...: Big Bird won't like a mean president; 10/10/12, 4:23 PM
sakredkow said...: They were both polite. Good on them. May the best man win.; 10/10/12, 4:25 PM
roesch/voltaire said...: This continual discussion of the first debate is becoming stale, lets at least move on to the next part of the horse-race: Biden and Ryan and...; 10/10/12, 4:27 PM
Toad Trend said...: "Obama is the representative of this generation.."

True to a point.

When the fooled are awakened and realize they mistook the serious business of stewardship (notice I did NOT say remaking) of the greatest country on earth for pop culture shallowness, then maybe we can get on with fixing real problems.

There is a famous line *attributed to PT Barnum (though not verified). Some of you know it applies to you.; 10/10/12, 4:27 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: This continual discussion of the first debate is becoming stale, lets at least move on to the next part of the horse-race: Biden and Ryan and...

My God, I agree with R/V?

Has anybody sighted the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse?

Seven headed hydras?; 10/10/12, 4:28 PM
traditionalguy said...: @ Garage...A narciscist must control how other's see him OR get rid of them and find a new bunch of usable supply for his self image.

So at this point it is normal for Obama to be getting ready to dump everybody he uses under a bus and start over with fresh supplies.

The only wonder on this comments section is why an intelligent man like you is still willing to be used by Obama to the bitter end.; 10/10/12, 4:29 PM
edutcher said...: OT:

This won't help in that debate prep - according to SurveyUSA, Obama is winning 81% of black voters and 54% of hispanic voters in NV.

If those numbers are reflected nationally, it's over. Zero had 97% of blacks and 2/3 of Hispanics last time and they were the narrow margin of victory in places like NC.; 10/10/12, 4:30 PM
Toad Trend said...: "The only wonder on this comments section is why an intelligent man like you is still willing to be used by Obama to the bitter end."

Oxymoron.; 10/10/12, 4:32 PM
Bob Ellison said...: Eye of the Sparrow.; 10/10/12, 4:32 PM
Kurt said...: Those are all excellent points, Yashu.

Obama can talk tough in front of his supporters, but he knows he can't back up that talk when challenged in person. He might think he can get away with making nasty remarks in the next debate, but if Romney follows up, responds, and challenges him like he did in the last debate, then he'll just end up looking petulant and foolish.

I'd better make sure I have plenty of popcorn.; 10/10/12, 4:32 PM
Chuck66 said...: edubutcher...I wonder if there are a few Blacks out there who finally figured out the Obama isn't really an "African-American"....someone who is primiraly (if not 100%) decended from Blacks who have been here since slavery. And lived through Jim Crow. And 60s riots. He is more of a Ward Churchill black.

A move from the beaches of Hawaii (and exclusive private schools) to Chicago isn't the same as a move Mississippi to Chicago.; 10/10/12, 4:32 PM
Brian Brown said...: I can't wait to see angry Obama go after the candidate he disdains so much!

This will go swell.; 10/10/12, 4:34 PM
Matt Sablan said...: "Obama is winning 81% of black voters and 54% of hispanic voters in NV."

You know who this benefits.; 10/10/12, 4:39 PM
Revenant said...: I thought Obama was a ball busting Chicago style politics tyrant?

Sure, but since when has Chicago politics ever been about facing your opponents on even terms?

Badmouth them to the adoring media, sure. Send auditors and attorneys after their supporters, sure. Confront them face to face... not so much, really. :); 10/10/12, 4:40 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: You shake that invisible toothpick at me one more time I'm grabbing it and poking your eye out with it.

Know who's more interesting when Himself is talking? The little girl dancers with the big fat mean teacher that's who.

They were doing this very un-girly dance about the last text causing an accident. The little girl driver is holding the invisible steering wheel like two out of control pistons. It was very dramatic dance. Blew everybody away. But they missed a good chance to be even better. At impact the girls go tumbling away from the car seat as if thrown from a car. They're all wearing wide red ribbon belts but left them on. Had they removed their belts it would have looked like streams of blood, [ribbons of blood iirc my Obama/Ayers]. I saw that done on stage once and it really is dramatic, suddenly the stage is steaming red then everything is flat and pooled. Nobody clapped for the girls. Just silence. Then, whoa Horsie, did I just see that? Then applause. They won. Proving once again the mean fat lady teacher really does know her stuff.; 10/10/12, 4:40 PM
Michael K said...: " Blogger garage mahal said...

Obama has not the balls to be hostile to Romney

I thought Obama was a ball busting Chicago style politics tyrant? You need to have a head on a swivel like Linda Blair to keep up with the contradictory shit on this blog. :

Garage, you don't watch enough gangster movies. Did Michael Corleone shoot anybody himself once he was don ? No. That's too messy. Obama has guys who are only too happy to do the dirty work for him, like you.

He hasn't gotten his hands dirty in years. He's forgotten how to do it. I don't think the next debate will be any better for him. He'll f**k it up if he tries to be tough.; 10/10/12, 4:42 PM
David said...: "according to SurveyUSA, Obama is winning 81% of black voters and 54% of hispanic voters in NV."

One in five black voters in Nevada will vote Romney?

Balderdash. Ain't gonna happen. Not in Nevada. Not anywhere. Just another crap poll.; 10/10/12, 4:43 PM
Kurt said...: Matthew Sablan wrote: "Obama is winning 81% of black voters and 54% of hispanic voters in NV."

You know who this benefits.

The answer to that would have to be Romney benefits. If those percentages are accurate, then Obama has lost a significant amount of support among both groups. He's already losing white voters, so he needs higher margins with minorities for his coalition strategy to work.; 10/10/12, 4:44 PM
Revenant said...: lets at least move on to the next part of the horse-race: Biden and Ryan

It hasn't happened yet. There's nothing to discuss.; 10/10/12, 4:48 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: Greg Gutfeld got in a zinger that made even Juan Williams laugh.

That double hand motion Obama does at the podium that looks like "this pumpkin here" that motion, Gutfeld said that's Obama looking at his ass.

Implying Romney handed it to him.; 10/10/12, 4:49 PM
mccullough said...: Maybe the moderator will call them both liars, since both their deficit proposals are full of shit.; 10/10/12, 4:50 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: jimbino,

Can't we get together and put out to pasture all those who keep saying "...is, is...," including our verbally challenged President?

He drives me crazy with the way he draws out the word "and".

I've noticed a lot of the new Obama impersonators also focus on his habit of vocalizing before he speaks - kind of a little growl before the gets the words going.

It's taken them four years to figure him out - or to grow some balls - while, naturally, they're already on Mitt like white on rice,...; 10/10/12, 4:55 PM
sakredkow said...: I'd like to see someone contradict mcculough. I won't.; 10/10/12, 4:56 PM
edutcher said...: Chuck66 said...

edubutcher...I wonder if there are a few Blacks out there who finally figured out the Obama isn't really an "African-American"....someone who is primiraly (if not 100%) decended from Blacks who have been here since slavery. And lived through Jim Crow. And 60s riots. He is more of a Ward Churchill black.

A move from the beaches of Hawaii (and exclusive private schools) to Chicago isn't the same as a move Mississippi to Chicago.

You got it. Barry's more white than black. And many blacks just can't afford 4 more years of him.

David said...

according to SurveyUSA, Obama is winning 81% of black voters and 54% of hispanic voters in NV.

One in five black voters in Nevada will vote Romney?

Balderdash. Ain't gonna happen. Not in Nevada. Not anywhere. Just another crap poll.

Think about this: Gallup had the same figure for blacks 4 or 5 months ago.

And that was before he became the first Lesbian President.; 10/10/12, 5:00 PM
Mark said...: "Mitt, you plutocratic antediluvian uterus-plundering puritanical jackbooted weird-pajama-wearing thug."

-- Obama's opening statement, next debate.; 10/10/12, 5:09 PM
ALH said...: "i mean, you know"

No wonder why the Greatest Orator Evah is so popular with the younger generation.; 10/10/12, 5:17 PM
Sammy said...: "I thought Obama was a ball busting Chicago style politics tyrant?"

Are you serious.. because you can't be that silly.... What does Chicago style politics have to do with facing your opponent on a even playing field.

OR

Having the facts or the balls to argue all your 30 second hit job ads are true to their face in front of millions of people.; 10/10/12, 5:20 PM
ricpic said...: When our vicious punk president avoided eye contact with Romney that's being polite?; 10/10/12, 5:24 PM
Mark said...: Tangential, but highly amusing:

Andrew Sullivan's Obama Meltdown In 8 Key GIFs; 10/10/12, 5:24 PM
Paddy O said...: Obama is the representative of this generation.

If by "this" you mean Baby Boomers, then yes.

College students voted for him because they believed his rhetoric, they thought it was about something more. Meanwhile, like many Baby Boomers, it's really "me, me, me."; 10/10/12, 5:24 PM
garage mahal said...: I never considered Chicago politics to be letting your opponent spew fact free bullshit for 90 minutes and let them reverse almost political position they've taken the past year.; 10/10/12, 5:29 PM
mccullough said...: Paddy O,

Unfortunately, Romney is also a boomer. So if he wins, it will be four straight boomer presidents.

McCain's greatest trait in 2008 was that he wasn't a boomer. That should have been his slogan. NOT A BOOMER; 10/10/12, 5:31 PM
Baron Zemo said...: You would think that a war hero who killed Osama Bin Laden with his bare hands could stand up to a milk drinking Mormon?; 10/10/12, 5:32 PM
Rusty said...: garage mahal said...
Obama has not the balls to be hostile to Romney

I thought Obama was a ball busting Chicago style politics tyrant? You need to have a head on a swivel like Linda Blair to keep up with the contradictory shit on this blog.

There ya go. Working without tools again.; 10/10/12, 5:34 PM
yashu said...: They were both polite. Good on them. May the best man win.

An admirable sentiment.

phx, I envy you (and I'm not kidding or being ironic). There was time, when I was younger and relatively apolitical, that I faced election outcomes with equanimity. I had a mixture of cynicism (about politics) and faith (in the structural resilience of American values and institutions) that let me feel, no matter who won, life and the world (at least for me) would be more or less the same. What person or party happened to run Washington D.C. didn't matter that much to me.

Maybe someday, I'll feel that way again. But not this election.

Back then, I was a default lib/ Dem in many ways, and I had many of the usual prejudices against Republicans and conservatives. But my dad was a Carter supporter, then Reagan Democrat/ convert, then Republican-leaning independent businessman (and an immigrant who was more patriotic about America than most Americans, as many immigrants are). So for all my reflexive distaste for Republicans, I never thought they were unmitigated bad guys, and knew they might be right about some things on occasion. And I spent much of my childhood and adolescence under Reagan, after all.

Eventually I underwent a rightward political conversion (like my dad had, and like him identify as 'classical liberal' or 'libertarian'). I don't think I'll ever shift back. But I do look forward to future elections in which I might find the Democrat, along with the Republican, acceptable enough, or at least not so terrible as to feel dread. In which I might feel that the outcome of an election doesn't entail an irrevocable (and IMO ruinous) consequence. Though I might have strong feelings and preferences and concerns, still, I might someday feel relative equanimity and say: "may the best man win."

Maybe someday, I'll feel that way again. I wish. But not this election. (For one thing, because the media is so overwhelmingly, so ridiculously, so egregiously stacked in one candidate's favor and against the other, "may the best man win" seems like the naivest of mottoes. But I sincerely share that hope, and will say it with you: may the best man win.; 10/10/12, 5:39 PM
Seven Machos said...: Garage is actually correct here. Obama cannot be some sort of tough, Machiavellian, brilliant, conniving super-dirty trickster from the streets of Chicago and also a fumbling, bookish, boring, weak dolt who can't debate or manage his way out of a wet paper bag.

I am reminded of the way leftists would hilariously call Bush an idiot and a sinister overlord at the same time. Which is it? You have to choose.

What Obama is, quite obviously, is a tremendously narcissistic, sophisticated huckster who was able to build up an image that millions of people believed in a strange, cult-like way. Obama would make a great college football coach. What a recruiter he could have been! But he would need good people beneath him to actually plan and coach technique. I don't know if he could abide that.; 10/10/12, 5:46 PM
Anonymous said...: I read this essay by Peter Suderman (http://reason.com/archives/2012/10/09/obamas-failed-narrative) last night, and it got me thinking: Does 0bama ever talk about anything but himself? No, seriously. He talks about his reactions to this or that. He talks about how he thinks he did in the first two years of his presidency, or the debate, or whatever. He does a lot of "Some people say/I say."

But has he ever really talked about anything but himself?; 10/10/12, 5:46 PM
ricpic said...: "Whadda we do next, Coach Obama?"

"Throw the Hail Mary."

"And if that doesn't work?"

"Throw the Hail Mary again."

"That's it?"

"That's it. Now go out there and kill the Gipper!"; 10/10/12, 5:56 PM
Seven Machos said...: Ric -- No. Obama would be bringing in the best recruits and talking about hokey shit. That's the part he could be good at.

I was going to say motivational speaker. Somebody like Tony Robbins. Better?; 10/10/12, 5:59 PM
ricpic said...: Agreed that he'd talk the hokey stuff, Seven, but you tellin' me he could resist calling for the Hail Mary? It's the only play he knows.; 10/10/12, 6:08 PM
Seven Machos said...: Obama wouldn't last a season calling plays. Calling plays = governing.

He'd sign great players and have them fired up before the season, though. He'd be Ron Zook.

My God! That's a brilliant analogy!

Obama = Zook.; 10/10/12, 6:11 PM
Baron Zemo said...: Obama would not say "Hail Mary."

He would say "Hail Khadija!"; 10/10/12, 6:13 PM
Baron Zemo said...: Barack Obama is Herman Edwards.; 10/10/12, 6:13 PM
Michael K said...: A pretty good summary of Obama post debate is here.

"I divide people into people who talk like us and people who don't talk like us," said David Brooks, speaking for all of them. "You could see him as a New Republic writer ... he's more talented than anyone in my lifetime ... he IS pretty dazzling when he walks into a room."

Dazzled indeed, they turned on their old flames, Bill and Hillary Clinton. They dumped John McCain, with whom they had flirted; and when Romney appeared -- rich, square, and looking like Dad in a mid-50s sitcom

There it is again. Obama has a dad thing and Romney has his number.; 10/10/12, 6:17 PM
Paul said...: I bet Obama gets flush in the face and starts a Jimmy Carter 'Amy and the nuclear proliferation' shtick.

Honestly Obama can talk the talk but he can't walk the walk (except to play golf and swim in Hawaii.)

His 3 1/2 years have been a waste and he has no bragging rights (ok.. I GOT BIN LADEN.) So he really has nothing to say except Romney is a nasty guy.; 10/10/12, 6:18 PM
yashu said...: Garage is actually correct here. Obama cannot be some sort of tough, Machiavellian, brilliant, conniving super-dirty trickster from the streets of Chicago and also a fumbling, bookish, boring, weak dolt who can't debate or manage his way out of a wet paper bag.

But 7M, if you look back at Obama's actual political history, at the ways in which he's won elections going way back to the beginning, it's *very* Chicago. (Neoneocon has been good at recounting some of this very dirty history.)

It's not that Obama himself has to be a Machiavellian genius. But his people, with his blessing-- the people running his campaigns (and now in large part his administration) are "Machiavellian" (though I don't like using that word because I respect Machiavelli as a political philosopher, "Alinskyite" is better but still imprecise and now hackneyed, "Chicago politics" will have to do as shorthand).

To be a mob boss, yes, you have to have a great deal of astuteness and the prudential/ pragmatic qualities extolled by Machiavelli. Because you have rivals for power on all sides at every moment.

But Obama had certain surface qualities that made him a perfect symbol, that lent him a symbolic power that far transcended his abilities as a politician. He beat the effing Clintons! He is manipulator of others, but he is also others' tool.

Witness the pathetic contortions, rationalizations, denials, fantasy alternate realities engaged in every day by the NYT. It's not Obama's genius carrying his water. When fucking Nixon-toppling Woodward is pointing to the emperor's nakedness, yet makes barely a ripple, that says something. Benghazigate and Fast & Furious and campaign donation corruption and IRS intimidation and etc. etc. etc.... it boggles the mind. If O was a Republican, he would have been impeached long ago.

I find Obama somewhat uncanny, myself. There's something about his face and demeanor that just *looks* totally innocent. He doesn't *look* like he's lying. His big puppy dog eyes and dazzling smile *look* totally benign, saintly. Yes, those of us who know what we're looking at can discern the arrogance and contempt and narcissism and insecuririty and disingenuousness and mendacity etc. But prima facie, Obama looks: "professorial."

Obama will make a fascinating future case study for historians. Far in the future.; 10/10/12, 6:20 PM
Bob Ellison said...: On Letterman on 9/18, Obama described the guy who made the video that Obama propped up as the cause of the death of four American diplomats as "a shadowy character".

This guy is too dumb to speaking on TV, much less working as the leader of America.; 10/10/12, 6:26 PM
ricpic said...: "Boys, I'm handing you over to my Assistant Offensive Coach, Bernank."

"So whadda we do now, Coach Bernank?"

"Okay, here's the play (with a wild look in his eyes) you throw eleven thousand footballs downfield, you cover the field in footballs."

"?"

"Well...all those footballs and all downfield...SOMETHING good's gotta happen!"; 10/10/12, 6:27 PM
Big Mike said...: Maybe Obama should simply abdicate to save himself from the continual reinvention. Not to mention the eventual November 6th humiliation.

Oh! That's right. Monarchs abdicate. Presidents resign.

Still the right word, given what he thinks the office is all about.; 10/10/12, 6:29 PM
Seven Machos said...: Yashu -- The Obama presidency is the Carter presidency, completely.

The young upstart from an unusual background (Southern vs. half-black)

The taking the Democratic primaries by storm and beating the old guard, the I-will-undo-a-national-stain themes (our slavery and discrimination sin vs. Watergate)

The utter national and foreign policy failures of the presidencies

The failure by both men to understand how they could not continue to be loved when they did the best they could in tough times...

The list is long.

I agree that Obama's cult of personality is strange and scary but, Christ, people! (And that Christ is ironic; think about it.) Cults of personality have been around a long, long time. Living Colour did a a great song about it in 1985, you may recall.; 10/10/12, 6:29 PM
edutcher said...: Seven Machos said...

Garage is actually correct here. Obama cannot be some sort of tough, Machiavellian, brilliant, conniving super-dirty trickster from the streets of Chicago and also a fumbling, bookish, boring, weak dolt who can't debate or manage his way out of a wet paper bag.

Good point. As I've said a few times, Zero is only tough with a gang at his back. Consider that cute little way he had of giving people the finger. He's basically a punk.

Put him eyeball to eyeball with somebody else that can't be stabbed in the back by Axelrod & Plouffe or isn't afraid of being called a racist for disagreeing with him to his face and Zero folds like a bad hand.

The "tough, Machiavellian, brilliant, conniving super-dirty trickster(s) from the streets of Chicago" are the ones who put him where he is. My guess is that describes Valerie Jarrett (or maybe Moochelle) more than him.; 10/10/12, 6:33 PM
furious_a said...: If by "this" you mean Baby Boomers, then yes.

...tail-end of the Boomer Generation. Couple more election cycles before we're done with them and their active retirement lifestyles.; 10/10/12, 6:39 PM
pm317 said...: @Yashu: He beat the effing Clintons! .

Sorry to say but that is not how it happened -- it took the media and the DNC and Chicago to prop him up against them. But for his skin color, they would have taken him on. What was the point of taking him on if that meant losing a large percentage of Dem voters, namely AAs. It would have been mutual destruction. They chose to battle another day.; 10/10/12, 6:46 PM
MarkD said...: Erase the slate!; 10/10/12, 6:47 PM
Comanche Voter said...: Because The Bamster is (a) arrogant; (b) lazy; (c) has contempt for most of the world generally and Mitt Romney specifically; (d) has a record that he can't defend--he essentially rolled over and played dead --maybe in a boxer's protective coverup crouch--for most of the debate. The Lightworker would pout once in a while, but that's about as good as it got.

Nothing much is going to change at the next debate. He'll get another whupping--which he has coming. All that golfing is catching up with you Obozo.; 10/10/12, 6:48 PM
yashu said...: David Brooks's total and utter seduction by Obama-- so embarrassingly blatant a seduction that Brooks himself conceded he was an "Obama sap"-- makes for a fascinating case study.

If I was more interested in David Brooks, meh. But it's still interesting for historical/ sociological/ psychological reasons. It's David Brooks and Noonan and Chris Buckley and others (including Althouse*) who contributed to and corroborated a certain 2008 consensus re Obama, even among ostensible Republicans-- a folie à plusieurs.

*I forgive and give Althouse more credit than the others, because she was a pretty good critic of Obama throughout the 2008 primaries and general election, and her reasoning for her Obama vote was a qualified one. It was largely about McCain (fair enough), but she also honestly conceded the important significance of the "First Black President" event for her. I strongly opposed Obama, but even I concede(d) the power of that.

But: been there, done that.; 10/10/12, 6:49 PM
yashu said...: @Yashu: He beat the effing Clintons! .

Sorry to say but that is not how it happened -- it took the media and the DNC and Chicago to prop him up against them. But for his skin color, they would have taken him on. What was the point of taking him on if that meant losing a large percentage of Dem voters, namely AAs. It would have been mutual destruction. They chose to battle another day.

I agree with you, pm317, and that was my point. The reason Obama beat the Clintons wasn't due to any of Obama's intrinsic talents as a politician. It was something else at work.; 10/10/12, 6:51 PM
rhhardin said...: This all strikes me as a meta-discussion about how to win the women's vote.

The discussion ought to be that Obama is a moron in every field that he touches.

That's what's driven out of the public bandwidth by meta-discussion.

And that's the reason for meta-discussion.; 10/10/12, 6:52 PM
Sammy said...: Pm 317

That's the best reading of the 2008 democratic primary....

And even now the Obama campaign would look awful if the media wasn't so willing to protect it, Libya incompetence leading to the death of a Ambaasdor and cover up would have ended a Republican incumbent.

... Now that Oama lost the debate on ecominic issues , jobs and Obamacare.... The media and dems will push "women issues". if they can convince Raddaz the Vp debate will be a women health channel program... abortion, contraceptives.. how Obamacare will make women's " lady parts " sing that's how great it will be for women....; 10/10/12, 7:02 PM
Bob Ellison said...: I got ten bucks right here says Romney's gonna win in November. Two bucks if ten are a stretch. Even odds. Obama's still up about 61/39 on Intrade.com (down about ten points in the last two weeks).

Anyone?; 10/10/12, 7:07 PM
bagoh20 said...: I hope he really believes this drivel. He's in for another ass-kicking if he does.; 10/10/12, 7:27 PM
pm317 said...: The reason Obama beat the Clintons wasn't due to any of Obama's intrinsic talents as a politician. It was something else at work.

Agree. Having watched it all closely and knowing what I know about Hillary, she gracefully gave up (but only after making sure those of us who were all in for her understood the shenanigans of the media and the DNC) and supported and propped him in the end -- after all she is a prominent face of the Dem party than otherwise. She did believe at some level that Obama deserved the opportunity and might even do well. She showed magnanimity. She is not the monster she is made out to be on these boards.; 10/10/12, 7:27 PM
ricpic said...: yashu, Brooks and Noonan (Buckley I don't know enough about to say) and Althouse were ripe for the picking as regards the Obama religion. They were all three swept away, ravished by the coming of the Black Messiah. None of what I've written is in jest. Impossible to overestimate the importance, the centrality to America's bien pensants to find a magic Negro and then exalt him.

Even with the bloom off the rose look at Althouse' agony at the thought that she might abandon the Hope.; 10/10/12, 7:32 PM
ricpic said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/10/12, 7:32 PM
ricpic said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/10/12, 7:32 PM
ricpic said...: How the heck did I triple post? Sorry.; 10/10/12, 7:33 PM
Blue@9 said...: Apparently "too polite" is the new euphemism for "ripped on quaaludes, dude."; 10/10/12, 7:40 PM
Seven Machos said...: Bullshit, Ric. Althouse's title of her post supporting Obama was "How McCain Lost Me." Think through the obvious implications of that title.

The general thrust of Buckley's argument was that the Republicans had completely run out of energy and ideas, which was true, and corruption was beginning to set in. Let's see what this Big Promiser Has Got. The Republic will survive.; 10/10/12, 7:46 PM
kcom said...: "But he would need good people beneath him to actually plan and coach technique. I don't know if he could abide that."

Obama's response:

"I think that I'm a better offensive line coach than my offensive line coach. I know more about defense for any particular formation than my linebackers coach. And I'll tell you right now that I'm gonna think I'm a better quarterback coach than my quarterback coach. (And a better quarterback, for that matter.)"; 10/10/12, 7:50 PM
holdfast said...: I cannot believe nobody has mentioned the height thing. Obama is a tall, lanky guy. He tends to loom over most of his interlocutors. He totally did it to McCain, and even to Hillary and Gov. Brewer of Arizona.

But Romney is about the same height, maybe even a hair taller, and has a much more solid build. He's not going to be loomed over or otherwise intimidated. This throws Obama off his game - it denies him one of his critical tools.

Also, I'm not a Private Equity guy, but I do work with them from time to time. The top guys, like Romney was, are very very good at thinking on their feet and at winning over a room, not bey charm, but by sheer force of presence and fluid command of all of the relevant information. McCain and Hillary are, for all intents and purposes, long-time government hacks. They've never had to really bring it in the private sector.; 10/10/12, 7:51 PM
ricpic said...: It's BS that Brooks, Noonan and Althouse were gaga about making a historical vote for our first black prez? I don't think so.; 10/10/12, 7:53 PM
kcom said...: "I think it's fair to say I was just too polite."

I think it's fair to say that he brought a knife to a gunfight.

And a rubber knife, at that.; 10/10/12, 7:55 PM
bagoh20 said...: "She [Hillary] is not the monster she is made out to be on these boards."

No, she isn't, and neither is Obama, but both are so completely confused about economics and the role government can effectively play in society that the effect is the same. I don't really care if the destroyer of our nation's vitality is a monster or a fool. Neither should be given the remote control.; 10/10/12, 7:55 PM
Blue@9 said...: I don't recall Althouse being all gaga over him. And I don't know why people still bust on her about the vote.

McCain was a totally spent force and was flailing at that point.

Heck, a tuna sandwich could have beaten McCain at that point. He was ineffective AND he had to deal with massive Bush fatigue at the time.; 10/10/12, 7:56 PM
kcom said...: "They've never had to really bring it in the private sector."

I don't know. Didn't Hillary make $100,000 off a $1000 investment in cattle futures? LOL; 10/10/12, 7:58 PM
Seven Machos said...: David Brooks is no conservative and never has been.

Peggy Noonan is a weather vane who write short, crisp sentences.

Althouse was never gaga over Obama. It is simply ridiculous to say so.

As Blue says, you people need to get over yourselves. McCain was a terrible candidate. Terrible. I myself only voted for him out a sense of loyalty. Anyone who was not convinced by him and was tired after eight years of Bush was entirely justified.; 10/10/12, 8:01 PM
bagoh20 said...: "It's BS that Brooks, Noonan and Althouse were gaga about making a historical vote for our first black prez?"

I see it as a little more than that. There was the desire to be affirmative, but I think even more powerful was the desire to not be seen as against such a "historic moment." That makes you one of the bad guys, and subconsciously that's an overpowering fear for some, especially those extensively educated, and it's irresistible if they are also even slightly public figures.; 10/10/12, 8:01 PM
Seven Machos said...: You guys dumping on Althouse need to go back and read what she said. She said McCain lost her, because he tried to cancel a scheduled debate to run off to Washington to -- somehow -- resolve a private-sector financial crisis.

It was really, really stupid gamesmanship on McCain's part.; 10/10/12, 8:04 PM
bagoh20 said...: " Anyone who was not convinced by him and was tired after eight years of Bush was entirely justified."

That would never justify hiring a complete unknown. It's just irresponsible. As bad as Obama has been, he could have been much worse, and if he was, nobody who voted for him would have any excuse for the disaster they caused. They voted for a name in the phone book.

We got extremely lucky that he is merely incompetent.; 10/10/12, 8:07 PM
DADvocate said...: Yes!! Obama's going to give Romney the finger like he gave Hillary the finger!! He's such a class act and so creative!; 10/10/12, 8:10 PM
bagoh20 said...: "It was really, really stupid gamesmanship on McCain's part."

Perhaps, but it's really stupid to pick a President based on that. How many dumb moves has Obama made, before and since. They were simply ignored. That was an excuse she made, not a reason, and by saying that, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt.; 10/10/12, 8:10 PM
Seven Machos said...: Bag -- The Democrats were going to win the 2008 presidential election. It was basically forgone.

I stand by my contention that Obama is Carter, all the way down to the unknown aspects.

I also apparently have more faith in the country than you and a lot of people. We've got a good, strong setup here. We can survive bad leadership in one compartment of one large part of the government for much longer than four years.

Have a little faith, people. There's magic in the night...; 10/10/12, 8:11 PM
yashu said...: I don't recall Althouse being all gaga over him.

I agree. It's fair to criticize or argue with Althouse over her vote. But one reason it shocked some of us is that she wasn't an obvious Obama partisan leading up to it. She did criticize the Obama campaign and defended e.g. Sarah Palin from the worst abuse. And her rationale for voting for Obama was qualified, significantly framed in terms of "how McCain lost me."

Ricpic does have a point, because Althouse was doubtless influenced (as I mentioned) by the "First Black President" factor. But Althouse was honest and upfront about that, she was frank about her feelings about that, and I give her credit for that frankness. Many other Obama voters weren't so honest and open about their feelings and thoughts on that score or to what extent that factor played a role in their vote.; 10/10/12, 8:15 PM
Patrick said...: Have a little faith, people. There's magic in the night...

Mitt ain't a beauty he's alright...; 10/10/12, 8:19 PM
bagoh20 said...: " We've got a good, strong setup here."

You do realize they are all lawyers, don't you. It's like saying your termite collection is secure in the strong wooden box you made for them. The termites themselves designed it.

Seriously though, I do have great faith in the American people as a whole, and I also thought Mccain was a terrible candidate.

But just think about how little we knew of Obama, and how hard it would be to stop him if he turned out to be a complete nut. It would be Battle Royal between the Constitution and the Race card. There would be blood.; 10/10/12, 8:21 PM
pm317 said...: The Democrats were going to win the 2008 presidential election. It was basically forgone.

Yeah, as I am used to say, a donkey with a Democrat label would have won in 2008 and one actually did. {donkey is a pejorative reference in some cultures to anybody who is incompetent}.; 10/10/12, 8:22 PM
Patrick said...: Blue is right. Right or wrong the Republicans could've resurrected JFK himself and run him, and he would've lost. The Democratic primary was the big win.; 10/10/12, 8:22 PM
yashu said...: I also apparently have more faith in the country than you and a lot of people. We've got a good, strong setup here.

I've always felt that, and I have residual faith. More than residual.

But the thing is, at stake in this election, to just mention one thing, is Obamacare. Obama promised to be unprecedented, and that's effing unprecedented. There's virtually no coming back from Obamacare, if Obama's re-elected. We're in for UK style healthcare, at best (and likely worse).

I wish I could feel chipper about the USA (as I know it) remaining pretty much the USA, no matter who's elected. But I can't feel so chipper.; 10/10/12, 8:24 PM
Steve Austin said...: Not to plug the movie "2016" again but you do all need to see it if you have not already.

D'Souza's theory on Obama is that he is a really smart guy who realized that being a non-threatening African American (one who smiles all the time) can play on white guilt.

And to the discussion in this thread, if Obama would trend toward anger, intimidation, loud voice, etc, a large number of white voters would immediately identify him as one of those "threatening" black politicians and he'd lose his main jedi mind trick that he's used his whole life to get places.; 10/10/12, 8:27 PM
Anonymous said...: THE GREATEST AND BEST POTUS OF ALL TIME WILL DESTROY, DISMEMBER, AND DISSECT ROMNEY IN A NICEST POSSIBLE MANNER.

Romney, you are FINISHED. You can walk away from the Debate. No one will care. Just leave the country and go away.; 10/10/12, 8:31 PM
Geraldus Maximus said...: I don't think he's gonna find his baby bear posture in time. Last time too "nice." Next time will probably be too "not nice." It will be fun watching him try to walk that tightrope. At this juncture it is moving toward a desperate Hail Mary maneuver or it is all over. Mitt is up with independents by 15-20 points. This is looking to be a blowout of Reaganesque proportions.; 10/10/12, 8:36 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: According to obama's ads on my tv - Obama is running on abortion.; 10/10/12, 8:38 PM
Anonymous said...: Obama wins every-state, every-county, etc.

Romney wins NOTHING.

Mondale will have won more state than Romney.

GOP: GO away. please go away.; 10/10/12, 8:40 PM
Anonymous said...: The Press LOVE Obama.

Period. End of Story.

The Press (led by NYT, MSNBC, NPR, HuffPost) decide. They like, no LOVE, Obama.

NO one cares about Romney. Not even the robot on Mars.

Enough said.; 10/10/12, 8:41 PM
Seven Machos said...: By the way, this is the trouble with Althouse's thesis and/or with the press coterie attempt to call a normal Obama outing terrible, terrible, terrible...

Maybe Obama will be feistier, or angrier, or whatever. Maybe Romney will be more reserved, or conservative, or whatever. But how much? Obama's not going to change that much, nor is Romney. Barring some meltdown by either (unlikely), we are likely see the same basic thing repeated twice more in different venues.

People are going to see what they see, and the influence of the press to call another average Obama performance heroic is limited. The myth has crashed. All the king's horses and all the king's men can't keep Obama from losing the election now.

It's over.; 10/10/12, 8:42 PM
Seven Machos said...: April - -In my estimation, this country is about 60-40 against abortion. So, that's an unwise move.; 10/10/12, 8:44 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: Hillary did not believe that Obama deserved the opportunity. She realized that fighting him had become an almost certain losing proposition, and long-term she was more likely better off not going all in against him.; 10/10/12, 8:48 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Rrhardin said:

"The discussion ought to be that Obama is a moron in every field that he touches."

True Dat!; 10/10/12, 9:02 PM
gk1 said...: You notice how this obama crowd wallows in fail after they screw up. This is so much like the "You didn't build that flap" this summer where they spent the next 2 weeks afterwards trying to convince us it was "taken out of contents" when they just should have shut the f*ck up and moved on. This is like that. I am enjoying their discomfort but I am beginning to feel sorry for them and want to move on.; 10/10/12, 9:03 PM
Anonymous said...: The World's smartest person is Obama.

He has a Nobel Prize. Romney is not even Eligible.

He is the POTUS. Romney will never be.

The press has written Romney's obituary. Why are you people not reading it? Are you incredibly lazy? The election is over. It has been decided by the Press. Why are you not understanding? Do you have a brain?; 10/10/12, 9:04 PM
Anonymous said...: The World's smartest person is Obama.

He has a Nobel Prize. Romney is not even Eligible.

He is the POTUS. Romney will never be.

The press has written Romney's obituary. Why are you people not reading it? Are you incredibly lazy? The election is over. It has been decided by the Press. Why are you not understanding? Do you have a brain?; 10/10/12, 9:05 PM
chickelit said...: 7 Machos wrote: Barring some meltdown by either (unlikely), we are likely see the same basic thing repeated twice more in different venues.

Maybe the exact same debate styles will repeat but the audience will be treated to a Rashomon effect. Then Althouse can judiciously link to her Rashomon analysis.; 10/10/12, 9:07 PM
Tim said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/10/12, 9:12 PM
Tim said...: Today's IBD/TIPP 2012 Presidential Election Daily Tracking Poll Shows Romney 49%, Obama 44%. Sample size of 757 likely voters (identified from 873 registered voters with party affiliation of 39% Dem, 31% GOP, 30% Ind.)

Most interesting, 9% of Obama '08 voters are voting for Romney; only 2% of McCain '08 voters are voting for Obama, for a net gain of 7% flipping from Obama to Romney. That's somewhat impressive, as it shows a not insignificant cohort of voters can learn from critical errors.

If it sticks, Obama loses.

Deservedly so. He built this failure.

Well, he and his idiot voters.; 10/10/12, 9:14 PM
bagoh20 said...: On the subject of our system's strength:

Dead Americans:
Watergate = 0, Fast and Furious 2 (so far) + hundreds of Mexicans, Libya Embassy = 3

Cover ups: Nixon = 1, Obama 2 and counting.

Scandals addressed by our system: Nixon = 1, Obama = 0.

Our system is nothing without a real press.

Sure we'll survive, but I think we should have a little higher standard than that when we pick Chief Executives.; 10/10/12, 9:15 PM
Tim said...: "Then Althouse can judiciously link to her Rashomon analysis."

Oh, very much so...where the last four years didn't happen and don't matter, but the 90 minute debate X between Romney and Obama is the *most* critical factor.

LOL.; 10/10/12, 9:17 PM
madAsHell said...: Yeah....being a jerk is going to work for Barry.

Hilarious!

Romney knocked him off his.....game. Barry can only dribble with his left hand, and Romney has taken that away.

Barry is trying on the magic underwear right now. He's looking for anything to give him an edge on Romney!!; 10/10/12, 9:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Barry is the best.

Barry will be reelected with the Biggest Margin.

GOP: You will cry and cry again.; 10/10/12, 9:21 PM
gadfly said...: Nice is not what Barry is all about. Barry is about Barry.; 10/10/12, 9:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Obama will come to the debate on 10/16 with Gangnam Style training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpZhZAr1cQU

Romney will be clobbered.

Biden is doing Gangnam style this evening.; 10/10/12, 9:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Hopefully the moderator will have some abortion questions so Ryan can point out to Joe Biden that they have similar voting records on tax payer funding, Roe v. Wade and partial birth abortion, and can both agree Obama voting against the Born Alive act was extreme.; 10/10/12, 9:28 PM
Eric said...: Maybe the moderator will call them both liars, since both their deficit proposals are full of shit.

Of course. The voters won't stand for the truth on the deficit. Anybody who lays out the amount of pain that going to be involved in the coming fiscal train wreck has no chance of being elected. None.; 10/10/12, 9:28 PM
gadfly said...: The president said:

Because I'm just human and I'm tempted and Christ set some almost impossible standards for us. The Bible says, "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Christ said, I tell you that anyone who looks on a woman with lust has in his heart already committed adultery. I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times.... This is something that God recognizes, that I will do and have done, and God forgives me for it. But that doesn't mean that I condemn someone who not only looks on a woman with lust but who leaves his wife and shacks up with somebody out of wedlock. Christ says, don't consider yourself better than someone else because one guy screws a whole bunch of women while the other guy is loyal to his wife. The guy who's loyal to his wife ought not to be condescending or proud because of the relative degree of sinfulness.

Yes, indeed, the nice president did say that and he was not talking about Bill Clinton.; 10/10/12, 9:43 PM
yashu said...: Our system is nothing without a real press.

This is a key point. I honestly think this is a good reason for anyone-- Republican, Democrat, independent (including Ron Paul or Gary Johnson libertarians) to vote for Romney.

Obama, in power, gets away with anything and everything. The NYT purports to be America's preeminent, most authoritative newspaper, so let's judge the matter by that metric: let's look at the fourth estate's (represented paradigmatically by the NYT) scrutiny of, inquiry into, and reporting on Obama's presidency. (But same goes, to a slightly lesser extent, for Reuters and AP and Washington Post and all the networks and cable channels, except for FOX).

Benghazigate? Fast and Furious? Solyndra? IRS intimidation of donors? Campaign corruption? Eroding civil liberties? Etc. etc. etc.

Seriously. Even if I distrusted Romnney, I would at least have the certainty that the press would be a goddamn bloodthirsty Rottweiler watchdog on his ass, at every moment and every move of his presidency.

What we have now is a press acting as the POTUS's goddamn press agents.; 10/10/12, 9:47 PM
Unknown said...: I found explosive censored Presidential debate footage. Romney discussed immigration and Islam!!

Watch it here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-bwwOb0hdU&feature=g-upl

John Press, Ph.D.
www.culturism.us; 10/10/12, 9:49 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: I hope Obama isn't so un-nice that he is repulsive to the independent voters.; 10/10/12, 9:52 PM
Mark said...: Cover ups: Nixon = 1, Obama 2 and counting.

I'd actually love to know why Jon Corzine hasn't at least been indicted (or, as far as I can tell, been sued in civil court).

What once landed Chicago pols in Club Fed is now SOP in Washington. That's not a good precedent no matter who is President.; 10/10/12, 9:58 PM
President-Mom-Jeans said...: I'm surprised that post menopausal cow Inga or whatever she is going by these days hasn't showed up to moo on this thread. A pity.; 10/10/12, 10:04 PM
virgil xenophon said...: I think everybody is whistling past the graveyard about the "resiliency" of America. Has no one noticed the run-amuck EPA and the number of Obama appointees rapidly being converted into civil service slots who will be there doing damage for decades? Same for DOJ and other depts. (They've even been devious enough to use outside civilian servers/computers/programs to penetrate government computers in the various agencies and erase documentation/e-mails, etc. so not only is their no paper/electronic trail of decision-making, there is ALSO no electronic trail of the erasure process..) The enabling legislation of Obamacare wuill be almost impossible to repeal unless the GOP has both the Presidency and overwhelming supermajorities in both houses the way the legislation is written. And what of the judical appointments being made at all levels? Not to mention the SCOTUS appointments should Obama be relected that could provide an un-alterable tipping point in leftward trends.

And don't forget the actual physical damage, i.e., jobs and industries lost by bureaucratic strangulation never to come back; the destruction of our energy base by closing perfectly good powerplantswhich will never re-open due to fact they are designed to be run 24/7 and onc3e shut down begin to deteroriate IMEEDIATELY. Same for coal mines which are practically a living, organic being and once shut down begin to deteroriate due to temp, humidity and water levels so as to be almost un-reconstructable for safe use within months due to zero maintenance. Or the deterioration of our nuclear weapons to the extent we can't count on their reliability and the retirement/death of most of those with the expertise/knowledge to maintain/repair them--not to mention allowing the facilities needed to produce new components go away also. The same can also be said about decisions to build/retire naval ships where lead times are in decades. Once these things are gone or foregone the likelyhood, once these things I have listed (and many others too numerous to mention as drunk as I am tonight)have come to pass that they can be reversed in any meaningfukl time-frame is almost nil to prevent all sorts of dysfunctional outcomes from electric brown-outs/blackouts to sky-rocketing electricity costs (shale gas notwithstanding) to lost wars is almost nil The damage adone is already verging on the catastrophic. I am not sanguine about the future even if Obama is defeated. If one takes a serious across-the-board inventory of regulatory actions already vtaken which will be fought out in the courts for years to reverse--if at all--one cannot be sanguine about the future. Much irreversable damage (in any meaningful time-frame)has already done..; 10/10/12, 10:06 PM
yashu said...: I'd actually love to know why Jon Corzine hasn't at least been indicted (or, as far as I can tell, been sued in civil court).

Yep. Especially in light of Obama's now infamous Big Bird ad, which cites "Bernie Madoff. Ken Lay. Dennis Kozlowski"-- all of whom were actually prosecuted under the Bush administration.

What Wall Street "criminal" or "glutton of greed" (per the Big Bird ad) has the Obama administration indicted?

Be sure to let me know if you can find one.; 10/10/12, 10:09 PM
Cedarford said...: Blue@9 said...
I don't recall Althouse being all gaga over him. And I don't know why people still bust on her about the vote.

McCain was a totally spent force and was flailing at that point.

Heck, a tuna sandwich could have beaten McCain at that point. He was ineffective AND he had to deal with massive Bush fatigue at the time
================
While the country was fed up with Bush's endless wars and serious bungling on the economy because he was too busy playing American Churchill....no Republican would have won.
And running a fire-breathing pure litmus test firebrand would have given Obama even more Congressional speeches and 4 years of carte blanche...as LBJ had after the Goldwater debacle.

So McCain was "it". But he had big problems besides being an incoherent campaigner who feared slamming the Black Messiah as unfit on lack of executive experience.

1. After he was burned on the Keating 5, McCain made it a point to tell everyone he was clueless on economic and financial matters and had no interest in them.
2. McCain's long tradition of backstabbing Republicans if it pleased the NY TImes and 3 Networks to do so or give the Dems a fig leaf cover on stuff like Mass Amnesty made him untrustworthy in the eyes of many.
3. Worst of all, McCain was a war thirsty neocon who wanted 5 more wars and endless attrition of US lives, when the public was angry and sick to death of Bush's nation-building.; 10/10/12, 10:15 PM
Unknown said...: ----Obama will make a fascinating future case study for historians. Far in the future.

If we survive his Presidency and historians in the future are allowed to write the truth.; 10/10/12, 10:16 PM
yashu said...: For those unaware of the sheer hypocritical disingenuous mendacious disgusting gall of the Obama campaign as displayed in the Big Bird ad (especially re Corzine), here it is, as quoted by Hagar in a previous thread:

Obama: I'm Barack Obama and I approved this message:

Narrator: Bernie Madoff. Ken Lay. Dennis Kozlowski. Criminals. Gluttons of greed. And the evil genius who towered over them? One man has the guts to speak his name.

Mitt Romney: Big Bird. Big Bird. Big Bird.

Big Bird: It's me, Big Bird.

Narrator: Big. Yellow. A menace to our economy. Mitt Romney knows it's not Wall Street you have to worry about. It's Sesame Street.

Romney: I'm going to stop the subsidy to PBS.

Narrator: Mitt Romney, taking on our enemies no matter where they nest.; 10/10/12, 10:21 PM
Alex said...: Obama's 2 coverups - Gunwalker & Benghazi actually cost many lives. How many people died from Watergate?; 10/10/12, 10:30 PM
yashu said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 10/10/12, 10:31 PM
Tim said...: Alex said...

"Obama's 2 coverups - Gunwalker & Benghazi actually cost many lives. How many people died from Watergate?"

Right.

But do you have any evidence any actual, live, breathing Obama voters give a shit about either of these?

One would hope they would, but I'm extremely doubtful.

Anyway, I'm all ears.; 10/10/12, 10:38 PM
bagoh20 said...: "McCain was a totally spent force and was flailing at that point."

Pretty much like an Obama voter right now trying to justify their abject irresponsibly in 2008.

Like I said up thread, we are very lucky he is only incompetent, because there was nothing, absolutely nothing to inform that he was capable of handling this job, and wasn't a complete loose cannon. It's pure luck that we are only in the middle of the worst recovery in our lives, and have wasted all the foreign policy ground won in the previous 8 years, while ruining the most productive, advanced healthcare system in the world and burying ourselves in debt. Yes, even all that is lucky compared to what was possible with electing a complete unknown quantity.

Imagine, being on the board of a large important corporation and hiring a new CEO with no experience who never even ran an ice cream stand. Then after the company has the worst 4 years in anybody's memory, he offers nothing but blaming the previous CEO, while you explain to the stockholders how he was much better than the well known although controversial military officer with extensive experience in your company's business.

It was an irresponsible vote, period.; 10/10/12, 11:00 PM
Tim said...: "It was an irresponsible vote, period."

Yes.

Obviously so.

Too few recognize that though.; 10/10/12, 11:14 PM
garage mahal said...: Oh, yashu.; 10/10/12, 11:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Gezuntheit Garage.; 10/10/12, 11:35 PM
Seven Machos said...: Bag -- Your beef isn't with Althouse. You need to focus your anger properly, where it belongs, which is at the goofy leftist idealists who foisted Obama upon the ballot.

The 2008 election was going to be a coronation of the Democratic candidate. That was always going to be true.

And another thing: Republicans deserved such a fate. Stagnation, fatigue, corrosion, and corruption had set in. The Tea Party, whatever its virtues and flaws, did not arise because people were happy with the Republican status quo. Think about that.

And think also about how long you think it's reasonably necessary for people to keep bitching at one loveable law professor for her vote four years ago. What's the statute of limitations on that?; 10/10/12, 11:37 PM
bagoh20 said...: Seven, I'm not bitching at Althouse, anymore than any of the others who voted similarly. My last comment was specifically in response to C4's continued density.

All that stuff you state in no way excuses voting for someone with no experience who you know little about for the most important job in the world, including commanding the most powerful military in history. Just think about THAT for a second. I frankly don't care about Althouse's vote. The fact that she just recently decided indicates a lack of seriousness and a trivial focus. The only excuse for such a late decision is if she just recently started reading about these two men who have long-known resumes and histories of actual actions, decisions and outcomes. Otherwise, she is just waiting for some trivial one-time event to "lose her". It's not what the rest of us should emulate.

I'm criticizing the methodology, including assigning the worst possible scenarios to one candidate despite his history, and simultaneously giving an unknown mysterious unproven abilities. I'm trying to convince people to be rational, careful, informed, and serious this time. It's not the prom queen we're electing. Whether or not a Dem win was inevitable last time is irrelevant about how one should vote then or now.; 10/11/12, 12:06 AM
bagoh20 said...: I'm in California, so my vote does not make any difference whatsoever. We Californians (demonstrably the dumbest voters in the country) will automatically give Obama 1/5 of all the electoral votes he needs. I will still vote, and I will still vote against him, on the principle that it's a duty, and one that should be taken seriously, as it affects (often existentially) the lives of billions of people around the world. What bothers me even more than the fact that we gave the world someone like Obama in this job, is the rationale we used to do it. It is an embarrassment. The last four years have left Obama no longer a mystery, and have now given me a lot of new reasons to vote against him. The last time, the lack of any serious reasons for hiring him in the first place was enough.; 10/11/12, 12:25 AM
Cedarford said...: bagoh12- "All that stuff you state in no way excuses voting for someone with no experience who you know little about for the most important job in the world, including commanding the most powerful military in history."

----------------
On the contrary, history shows some of the worst Commander in Chiefs in various nations have been those with from a smattering of combat experience in a narrow niche -to being a highly decorated corporal in WWI - fancying themselves great strategists and seeing glory in promoting and winning the Next War.

Leaving discussions of hero Vets Hitler, LBJ, DeGaulle and many others aside - McCain was a pure warhawk. He WANTED new glorious wars and just behind that, troops to do "limited interventions".

When he ran in 2008 his "wish list" was:

1. Sending troops to help the heroic Georgians who were getting their asses handed to them by Russians, after stupidly launching a big artillery attack on Russia's ally, South Ossetia.
2. A big war with Iran.
3. NO drawdown in Iraq until it was a "fully fuctioning democracy".
4. A big Surge into Afghanistan to help the Heroes there achieve the peace stability that the US military gave Iraq.
5. Troops to the Sudan.
6. Troops to Somalia.
7. Troops to Yemen.
8. Troops to the Congo.; 10/11/12, 12:47 AM
yashu said...: Oh, yashu.

Yes?

Unlike some others here-- and yet like others here-- I don't consider you this totally foreign other.

Not too long ago, I think I was in many ways like you (politically). And even now, I'd say probably all of my best friends in real life, 100% of them (excluding family members) have a political perspective at least as leftwing as yours (and in most cases more: in my world, the world in which I have to live, almost every respectable academic is a Marxist in some sense).

This is an aspect of my life that contributes to my psychological... unhappiness or whatever, but that's on me to deal with.

This is obviously not an argument or refutation against any particular argument you might come up with on current events. But at least I hope you realize not everyone who disagrees with you fits your stereotype of the hillbilly/ winger "other."

Heh, given the milieu in which I live and work, I'm probably far, far more steeped in Marxism than anyone here commenting on the Althouse blog. With the possible exception of Robert Cook.; 10/11/12, 12:51 AM
Eric said...: Obama's 2 coverups - Gunwalker & Benghazi actually cost many lives.

Do Mexicans count? Because otherwise it's just a handful.; 10/11/12, 1:08 AM
bagoh20 said...: C4,
If you think McCain would have done all those things, and you thought them stupid, then I guess you made the right choice, but did you really believe that, or are trying to cover that you just hate heros, and anyone who gets called one, by those stupid rubes? No problem there with Obama. He didn't push that button did he? BTW, did you ever get your Obamaphone?

Like I said, assign the worst possible to one candidate and the best to the blank page and guess what you get: a perfectly reasonable decision...based on bullshit.; 10/11/12, 1:11 AM
Seven Machos said...: Cedarford doesn't like Jewish people. His whole worldview is centered on that, and once you understand that, everything makes sense. And you can ignore him 97 percent of the time.; 10/11/12, 1:35 AM
pm317 said...: the world in which I have to live, almost every respectable academic is a Marxist in some sense).

This is an aspect of my life that contributes to my psychological... unhappiness or whatever, but that's on me to deal with.

I left that world for good recently and have never been happier. The majority of them, academics are 99%er feeding on the genius of 1% and that bugs them into so much insecurity that they have to lie to themselves that they are great and they deserve what they think they have. They live in a bubble of their own making, hyped up by their own insecurities and self-aggrandizement. Outside of that bubble nobody gives a hoot what they are, who they are. But they are in someways dangerous to civil societies. As Obama campaign showed these are easy prey to prey on because they are so stupid and gullible outside of that bubble.

Preying on academics and students was the key to Obama's 2008 success. I think it all started with Samantha Power's Sudan movement and they found a key to rev up the gullible and easily flattered.; 10/11/12, 5:09 AM
Nathan Alexander said...: garage, AF, phx, shiloh, purplepenquin, et al,
Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ldyGsZ1Io&feature=player_embedded

Then please explain why/how Obama's integrity and leadership as displayed in the video have earned your vote.; 10/11/12, 6:48 AM
Matt Sablan said...: "But has he ever really talked about anything but himself? "

-- Are we suggesting a sort of Bechdel test for politicians?; 10/11/12, 7:13 AM
Cedarford said...: Seven Machos said...
Cedarford doesn't like Jewish people. His whole worldview is centered on that
====================
Fine if Machos wishes to transcend being a champion ball-washer of the Zionists and claim your stance on any issue shows how much you love the Jews or are anti-Semitic...

But aside from McCain's thirst for a major war with Iran?

What did McCains championing of great new wars for "The Heroes" have to do with the Jews?
Sudan?
Fighting Russians in Georgia"
The fucking Congo??
Libya?
Yemen?
SOmalia?; 10/11/12, 7:58 AM
Bob Ellison said...: Seven Machos and Cedarford are rocking my world. I must need more coffee this morning.; 10/11/12, 8:01 AM
Matt Sablan said...: Side note: American forces in Jordan. You know, there was a time -- I call it 2000-2008 -- when presidents actually had to work with Congress.; 10/11/12, 8:06 AM
Tank said...: Matthew

Zero views Congress, like the Constitution, as just a bump in the road that must be navigated around. He has things to do and won't let them get in the way. You'll see this even more clearly if [God forbid] he wins.

He won.

He is the King.

King Con Man.; 10/11/12, 8:11 AM
Bob Ellison said...: Matthew Sablan, I have common cause with gun-controlling leftists in viewing the Constitutional text on Congress declaring war as anachronistic. Obama ordered the OBL slaughter, and rightly so. We were not at war with Pakistan at the time.; 10/11/12, 8:13 AM
Kelly said...: I loved the debate style, how the two actually had a back and forth with each other with little input from the moderator. That will NOT be allowed to happen again.

The next debate is a stupid townhall with probably lots of unserious questions. For instance, Pizza Hut has offered free pizza for life to whom ever has the nerve to ask the candidate what their favorite pizza topping is.; 10/11/12, 9:29 AM
Blue@9 said...: "Maybe Obama will be feistier, or angrier, or whatever. Maybe Romney will be more reserved, or conservative, or whatever. But how much? Obama's not going to change that much, nor is Romney. Barring some meltdown by either (unlikely), we are likely see the same basic thing repeated twice more in different venues. "

Oh, I don't know about that. Three or four different Al Gores showed up to the 2000 debates, wardrobe makeovers and all.

The question isn't whether Obama can change his demeanor and style, but whether he can do it without overdoing it. Gore bounced between hyper-alpha-dog and Ms. Congeniality, but he never managed to find the sweet spot.; 10/11/12, 5:25 PM