"... and he is ignoring the oath they took to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution — just like he did... Calling fellow members of Congress 'communists' is reminiscent of the days when Joe McCarthy divided Americans with name-calling and modern-day witch hunts that don't advance policies to benefit people's lives."
Said Representatives Raul M. Grijalva, D-Ariz., and Keith Ellison, D-Minn., who co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, whose members Representative West has called "card-carrying Marxists" and "members of the Communist Party."
West's spokesperson defends his remark by saying "The Communist Party has publicly referred to the Progressive Caucus as its allies," which doesn't explain how that makes them "members of the Communist Party."
West just sounds nutty. I'm saying that because I can't even think of a reason why he'd want to talk like that.
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175 comments:
I think he sounds nutty because he is nutty.
With friends like these . . . .
Guess who just lost the Veepstakes, if he was ever in it.
He's going to run on a ticket with Ollie North, Matthew.
The North-West campaign.
I don't get the outrage. "Card-carrying Marxists" is obviously hyperbolic (as in, they don't actually carry cards), but how is that any worse than the multitude of thing that are said about Republicans/Conservatives?
Politics ain't beanbag, folks. Sticks and stones and all of that. Grow up.
"For a moment, I want to get back to what was asked about the issue on the floor today that Mr. Hoyer address,” Pelosi said. “He made a point and I want to emphasize it. Under this bill, when the Republicans vote for this bill today, they will be voting to say that women can die on the floor and health care providers do not have to intervene if this bill is passed. It’s just appalling.”
There's plenty of nutty to go around, but some generates more outrage than others.
Some people sound like a nut, others don't.
Dick Durbin call your office!
David, that was funny!
I was thinking: did somebody say McCarthy? or Jim Crow? or unpatriotic?
"Marxism" is a touchstone for leftists. "No, I'm not!" Yes, you are.
EMD, I see what you did there!
So is this more or less hyperbolic that "social Darwinism."
I'm saying that because I can't even think of a reason why he'd want to talk like that
Maybe because they really are Marxists and Communists?
West always sounds nutty. I don't know what they see in him when people like Palin say he is a good VP candidate.
Communists love rich people, just at the expense of the rest of the population.
There's a similarity for you.
I always wanted to write a novel about a telepath taking control of politicians and making them say weird shit. Apparently that ship has sailed.
Just another lying member of the GOP making crap up as he goes along...much like their nominee mittens...
Obviously meant for the the tea partiers, since truth doesn't matter...
Someone should ask him when he stopped torturing people...
I mean, I get that sometimes, you have to throw out red meat as a politician. But, try to leave the crazy stuff to the Ron Pauls and the Howard Deans.
There's a YT vid of the AZ rep during the election browbeating a woman cos he didn't like her question. I know what I would have done with that paper. How stupid are Arizonians? They chose that jerk over a real rocket scientist.
Lenin, Stalin, & Robert Cook. The only 3 communists ever in history.
I understand that the Communist Party of the U.S.A. wants an apology.
Machine, fighting misplaced hyperbole with misplaced hyperbole.
Lyssa is right. Beta Rube gets it. Its the 'some are more equal than others' hypocrisy.
Those that speak truth are often characterized as crazy by liars.
Democrats, the members of the party of treason.
http://www.snopes.com/photos/signs/grigsby.asp
And Allen West was being funny. Some idiot asked if he knew of any Communists in Congress, and he answered like, "Yeah, about 78-80 of them" - pause - "They call themselves the Congressional Progressive Caucus."
NBC last night provided subtitles for the first part, but not for the second, and the background noise was so bad, it was hard to make out what he was saying.
The editor of the Florida tape might have been fired, but apparently at least an apprentice is still there!
McCarthy was right. Wouldn't that be considered truth in advertising?
Someone should ask him when he stopped torturing people...
----
He probably stopped about the same time you stopped beating your significant other.
Save the phony outrage. It's obviously hyperbolic. I guess you believe Republicans are literally tossing grenades and opening fire on women as as they execute the "war on women".
The difference between the "war on women" and West comparing the Progressive Caucus to communists is that there's actually some truth in West's comments. The Progressive Caucus represents the extreme far left of the Democrat Party. They want MORE government involvement in the economy, more central planning, more re-distribution. They want government to be the answer to everything.
Nobody could argue that they are functionally equivalent to socialists/communists. Saying they are members of the Communist Party was inaccurate but it was so close to the truth that the progressives have to respond with the normal phony outrage.
I don't get West's haircut.
tits.
Notice how West's comment draws certain commenters out?
They want more gov't spending and want to control it, those greedy, powermad leeches.
Their policy goals are the same as Communists. He told the truth about them. Whats so shocking about telling the truth about what Progressives are; ie collectivist authoritarians? They might as well be members of the Communist Party; because they sure talk like them.
Quite frankly, if you are pushing Porgressive ideas about much of anything, you are violating your oath to defend the Constitution by seeking to undermine it in order to install an Authoritarian ruling class that regularly dismisses Constitutional safeguards on the accumulation of power by the Executive and Legislative branches AND seeks to have sections of the Bill of Rights declared null and void by the Courts; see the 2nd Amendment.
West just told the truth about them. West knows what it is to actually OBEY the Oath of Office, rather than subvert it.
Civility Bullshit.
Progressives seeks to undermine the US Constitution and replace it with a European Authoritarian Pogressive welfare state. What part of their oaths of office are they NOT violating?
"West just sounds nutty".
Have you ever seen either of these two congress critters on TV? They want big big big govt with no end. They get their votes from the folks who Gov. Christie said are sitting on their couch waiting for the next govt check.
What West said was a hoot. That alone should qualify him for the Vice-Presidency if Romney decides not to pick Palin again.
However, since Romney is a squish and an weak sauce ass clown, he will pick neither and get someone so jelly-bellied weak that even Ann Althouse will be turned off by the lack of testosterone on the GOP ticket.
SGT Ted, today is my daughters 40th birthday, she's spending it in that hellhole called Afghanistan. She's a progressive, so is she violating her oath to defend the Constitution while treating the injured?
Talk about nuts.
Enter Edutcher, saying she doesn't exist again. Two too nuts.
West's haircut is "high and tight," a reminder of his service as an Army officer.
Since he commanded a battalion of approx. 1,000 soldiers (much larger than even medium-sized companies) he is certainly more qualified to be VP than Obama ever was to be president.
Oh yes, terribly uncivil, don't you know. Such a rabble-rouser, and a roughian, incredibly uncouth. Would you care for some more tea?
Great she's serving. Too bad her ideology is inherently un-American. She may discover that one day.
SGT Ted, will you ever discover what you say to be borderline treasonous? You dishonor the uniform.
Progressive politicians see the Constitution limits on government as something to be overcome, changed or discarded in order to enact their policies. They say so themselves. They openly violate their oaths to defend those safeguards, while in office.
Thats un-American.
Bago:
Great word choice but I quibble as it's Ruffian not roughian.
Classic example of the Progressive. Free Speech which tells the truth about Progressives is the crime of Treason, to be punished.
Pure bullshit Alleyoop. I swore an oath to defend ALL of the document. Not subvert it to enact Progrssive collectivism.
It is NOT treason to call out Progressives who violate their oaths. It's called "telling the truth". It IS treason to violate your oath of office to try and subvert the Constitution, whether by political or military force.
Actually, it is sometimes hard to differentiate a "progressive" from a "communist". They both believe in an all powerful state, they both believe all income and property belong first to the state, and they both believe they should be in charge.
What's the difference between West's cry of 'communist' and the left's of 'racist'?
Was our President denigrating the millions of Americans who voted for Republicans when he told the Republican congress to sit in the back? Or when he referred to the opposition as enemies? What reason did he have to talk that way?
C'mon, really... Where's the "Civility Bullshit" tag?
The difference is that West was telling the truth.
AllieOop: SGT Ted, today is my daughters 40th birthday, she's spending it in that hellhole called Afghanistan. She's a progressive, so is she violating her oath to defend the Constitution while treating the injured?
Just a reminder - AllieOop claims to be a nurse but was caught flat-flooted when asked what needle size is used for IV bags. She could never provide an answer. She's a poser falsely presenting herself as a nurse, likely to leverage whatever goodwill we have for that profession.
So I would take her anecdotes with a grain of salt. She prob doesn't even have a daughter.
For AlleyOpps, proud Progressive, criticizing Progressives by telling the truth about their political goals is borderline treason.
Just like a Communist. Criminalize dissent in order to shut people up. Trouble is, I'll actually physically fight for the rights I swore an oath to uphold. Unlike Progressives who tell us daily that those rights are oppressive and get in the way of Ameritopia.
Thanks for revealing yourself for what you really are.
AllieOop: SGT Ted, will you ever discover what you say to be borderline treasonous? You dishonor the uniform.
BTW, you never served. So you don't get to toss around rejoinders like "you dishonor the uniform".
Fen,
Doesn't matter that I never served. My flesh and blood is serving. It will be my heart that gets broken if she comes home in a coffin, not yours.
While she is there I will speak for her, because that is exactly what she would say to SGT Ted.
West is a Marine. He will talk shit to rattle a pussy.
Trey
West's comment was asinine. He's appealing to the harsh right wing of the Republican party.
Liberal became a dirty word, now education about what a progressive truly is is starting.
You're proud to be a progressive? Own it, you walk with Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Hugo, All the Kimmee's and Sanger.
West is not a Marine, TMink.
Blogger Lyle said...
West's comment was asinine. He's appealing to the harsh right wing of the Republican party.
--------------------------------
Is there a harsh left wing of the Democratic Party?
BTW, you never served. So you don't get to toss around rejoinders like "you dishonor the uniform".
Veteran ditto. You don't get to make that call, no matter how many of your kin serve or not. No amount of second-hand knowledge can make you truly understand what goes on. That comment's a bridge too far.
AllieOop: Doesn't matter that I never served. My flesh and blood is serving.
You still don't get to appropriate her privs. She is serving, not you.
It will be my heart that gets broken if she comes home in a coffin, not yours.
Oh bullshit. I really doubt you have a daughter serving. An actual military mom wouldn't use her child they way you do.
While she is there I will speak for her, because that is exactly what she would say to SGT Ted.
So are you going to pull an astronout son out of your ass when we discuss NASA next week?
You're pathetic.
And I would tell her trying to shut me up by calling me treasonous for criticising her politics is vile and un-American.
Pointing out the truth of Progressivism is me upholding my oath to defend the Constitution by pointing out those who would like to dismantle it.
"Bago:
Great word choice but I quibble as it's Ruffian not roughian. "
I looked it up too, but was so far off I could only find my incorrect spelling which is out there but, only as a name. I gave up. No coffee yet.
Anyway, Thanks. I don't no me no words much more than what I got from Dad's Penthouse magerzines.
She's a poser.
No better than those Stolen Valor pukes.
What unit is she serving in? Whats her MOS?
This is hilarious. The Socialists here are calling criticizing Rep Allen West for his calling some members of Congress Socialists.
Shouldn't you view the guy as a heroic figure for outing in-the-closet Socialists? They're your people, aren't they?
section9 said...
What West said was a hoot. That alone should qualify him for the Vice-Presidency if Romney decides not to pick Palin again.
However, since Romney is a squish and an weak sauce ass clown, he will pick neither
=====================
As a right wing clown, the logic of not picking a fellow right winger with certain clownish tendencies escapes you.
Palin might have amounted to something if she had been allowed a certain amount of experience and seasoning before she ran. She had potential. Ruined now.
In the bin of "famous former pols turned lobbyists/media pundits that have no base to return to" Like Gingrich, Daschle, Santorum (In Alaska, S Dakota, Georgia, Pennsylvania)
Same for Allen West. Good qualities, good potential but still too much clown to his act. Let him get more seasoning. Don't ruin him by elevating him to a level he will fail at.
As for Romney...he knows the right wingers and born agains will hate the socialist and "secret Muslim" in office enough to turn out to vote for the "mushy heretic" in large numbers. So his VP will be selected with independents, women, and latinos in mind more - than the feelings of evolution-denying rattlesnake handlers in some Alabama "Holler".
Besides, Romney is the most personally conservative of the choices. His culture is socially conservative. He is a fiscal conservative. But more a "Ned" on the Simpsons than a Savonarola. A live and let live conservative. Something tells me that a gay couple living next door to him in California would not bother him at all, but would freak Santorum out.
If we are honest, neither Newt or Santorum were fiscal conservatives. And Newt was like Cain in his libertine ways.
ScottM,
Wrong, I get to speak for my daughter while she can't speak for herself, don't like it? Tough.
I am her financial and healthcare POA also while she's over there.
Maybe some of us just need some educatin'. What is the difference between what those in the communist party want in American policy and what these leftist Congress people want?
Seriously, I'm asking.
The "progressive" agenda is utterly inconsistent with the Constitution. We need not look any further than our affirmative-action hire posing as president's comments, and those in the "progressive" cohort who happily agreed, on the USSC if they should dare to overturn the ACA because it was unconstitutional, that the Court would be over-reaching it's constitutional authority.
There are other examples, of course, but the notion one can be a committed progressive and committed to defending the Constitution, both in letter and spirit, is illogical.
This should not distract us from knowing that "progressives" (the term on its face is risible - is anything more regressive than working to create an authoritarian state?) will happily use the Constitution to advance their goals.
After all, Alger Hiss swore an oath to defend the Constitution, too. How did that work out?
Yea they are all proud of calling themselves "Progressives" until you point out what that really means in public. Then come the "treason" charges and all the other civlity bullshit.
Allen West spoke the truth about them and it hit home. You can tell by their reaction.
Wrong, I get to speak for my daughter while she can't speak for herself, don't like it? Tough.
Wrong. You have no idea what does or does not dishonor the uniform. Having a relative, even a close one, serving doesn't count. Don't like it? Tough.
Just out of curiosity, why can't she speak for herself?
Is there a real difference, or only in degree? Big degree, minor degree?
We could look it up, but should that be necessary? Maybe it is.
I am her financial and healthcare POA also while she's over there.
Next time I draft a POA, I'm totally going to add a clause about how the attorney "gets to use the person's profession over and over again in order to try to prove points in political blog comment sections."
SGT Ted, she is with the 1st MLG in Helmand Province, she is a FMF Corpsman. Has the rank of Chief, has been in the Navy since 2002.
Allie: ScottM,
Wrong, I get to speak for my daughter while she can't speak for herself, don't like it? Tough.
Wrong again. No one brought up your daughter but you, as you tried to use her service as a political prop to attack SGT Ted.
You're not speaking for her. You're using her. A real military mom would know better, Poser.
I am her financial and healthcare POA also while she's over there.
Still doesn't give you the right to speak with any authority on the military, much less be a judge of what's a "disgrace to the uniform".
You were better off pretending to be a nurse.
"What is the difference between what those in the communist party want in American policy and what these leftist Congress people want?"
Time, and means. Communists were in a hurry, and saw utilitarian virtue in violence.
Progressives are patient, and so the need for violence, for now, is less.
Chief in 10 years. She's a Stud-ette. Very impressive, even if in wartime.
Lyssa, I don't care what you do for a living. I speak for my daughter while she can't speak for herself.
Lyssa, I don't care what you do for a living. I speak for my daughter while she can't speak for herself.
Huh?
Fen you too are a nut. Do you pretend to be human? Or do you just sound like a human?
Are you the hospital security guard who tried to quizz me on lactated ringer's?
You hunker down using your daughter as your shield, Allie.
The hellhole your daughter is in? That's what progressives want to send us back to.
Cos this is what progressivism breeds:
Robert A Heinlein : Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty. This is known as "bad luck."
Lyssa, my other daughter is an attorney too, it takes intelligence to be an attorney, why do you pretend to not understand my meaning? Disingenuous.
Seeing Red,
My daughter is a progressive, I won't let some nuts here call her anti American, plain and simple. Don't like it, nuts to you too.
Althouse's "patriots " showing off their stuff again. It never changes. I'm out of here before I tell you real Americans to go get fucked.
Hey Allie, you didn't know your progressive "daughter" is a marxist whore?
Have a nice day, Poser.
Bye.
Allie leaves and I bet Leslyn will appear very shortly.
Calling out Progressives for what they are and what they really stand for is not incivility. It's just telling the truth.
The Constitution has always gotten in the way of "progressives" or other collectivists and from Woodrow Wilsin on have tried to use whatever means to subvert it. FDR openly packed the Courts with his ideological brethren and threatened the court for opposing his New Deal policies.
Modern day progressives operate the same way. They also rely on "civility bullshit" to avoid being exposed for what they are. Even Ann was taken in by their pearl clutching fainting spell brought on by the truth.
Hey Allie, you didn't know your progressive "daughter" is a marxist whore?
Did you consider the time it took to type that out and enter it necessary?
"The Socialist Party of America announced in their October 2009 newsletter that 70 Congressional democrats currently belong to their caucus.
This admission was recently posted on Scribd.com:
American Socialist Voter–
Q: How many members of the U.S. Congress are also members of the DSA?
A: Seventy
Q: How many of the DSA members sit on the Judiciary Committee?
A: Eleven: John Conyers [Chairman of the Judiciary Committee], Tammy Baldwin, Jerrold Nadler, Luis Gutierrez,
Melvin Watt, Maxine Waters, Hank Johnson, Steve Cohen, Barbara Lee, Robert Wexler, Linda Sanchez [there are 23 Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of which eleven, almost half, are now members of the DSA].
Q: Who are these members of 111th Congress?
A: See the listing below
Co-Chairs
Hon. Raúl M. Grijalva (AZ-07)
Hon. Lynn Woolsey (CA-06)
Vice Chairs
Hon. Diane Watson (CA-33)
Hon. Sheila Jackson-Lee (TX-18)
Hon. Mazie Hirono (HI-02)
Hon. Dennis Kucinich (OH-10)
Senate Members
Hon. Bernie Sanders (VT)
House Members
Hon. Neil Abercrombie (HI-01)
Hon. Tammy Baldwin (WI-02)
Hon. Xavier Becerra (CA-31)"
The list continues from there.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/04/hero-allen-west-ive-heard-80-democrats-are-members-of-the-communist-party-actually-the-number-is-70-not-counting-obama/
I knew some Communists who served too. There are Nazis who serve as well. Are they all excused from being anti-American too?
Your daughter should be ashamed to call herself a Progressive. Its an anti-American ideology.
AllieOop,
Let's clarify your stated logic, shall we?
Your daughter is a progressive. She is serving in Afghanistan.
Because she is serving, her political views, goals, and actions cannot be criticized. When she returns, your daughter will be free to work to undermine the US Constitution and impose European-style unelected bureaucratic masters in the US, because of free speech.
But if a serving or formerly-serving military member criticizes Progressives, they are borderline treasonous, and must be silenced. They dishonor the uniform by using their free speech to criticize how she uses her free speech.
And you claim you have even more right to speak your mind on your daughter's behalf because you have a daughter currently in Afghanistan than someone who deployed to the middle east himself?
I do believe you have a daughter serving.
But your claims of any moral high ground are well and truly bankrupt.
You don't understand anything about the military if you think her death won't impact those in the brotherhood/sisterhood of arms. There is more compassion for a fellow servicemember one has never met than you can conceive.
But since your ideology embraces murder for the sake of feminist convenience, I guess it is understandable why you can't understand it.
I've always thought of West as a bit of a loose cannon, disappointingly using sharp rhetoric to replace incisive argument, and was never a serious VP choice.
He probably should have just stated the obvious and asserted the PC members are Marxists. But I don't think this is a particularly bad example of his excess.
Per Wikipedia:
Some of the more notable Progressive members of Congress included Ted Kennedy, Russ Feingold, Dennis Kucinich, Barney Frank, Bernie Sanders, Al Franken, John Conyers, John Lewis & Paul Wellstone. Progressives to the core, just listen to there speeches they are very enlightening. LOL
If you ID yourself as a progressive, those people were progressives. All I did was point it out.
You were trying to use your daughter to silence us. Is your daughter aware of what progressivism is? If not, maybe she should read up on it? Her positions might become a little more nuanced.
But if you're going to proclaim youself as progressive, as you have done for yourself, own it, you're not a kid, you've lived thru this history, you should know better at your age.
I've always thought of West as refreshingly honest and to the point.
Pointing out the hard truth about the Progressive Caucus is hardly being a 'loose cannon'.
West is really the only one who can do it, they can't use "racist" to shut him up.
Almost certainly, those on the list are all small c communists, like their Party head and that "guy from down the street", William Ayers.
That said, I read West's rationale on a couple of web sites and there was a leap I just couldn't follow. Nice to know I'm not alone.
Fen said...
Just a reminder - AllieOop claims to be a nurse but was caught flat-flooted when asked what needle size is used for IV bags. She could never provide an answer. She's a poser falsely presenting herself as a nurse, likely to leverage whatever goodwill we have for that profession.
So I would take her anecdotes with a grain of salt. She prob doesn't even have a daughter
My guess is it's a neighbor or niece that's in A-stan, because we all know how the Lefties rushed to enlist after 9/11.
As I've said, this is Mitochondri and Apfelkuchen, having been kicked out of Troop's.
Starting a war based on false pretenses, torturing prisoners in violation of law, and actively standing in the way of US economic growth are all apparently pretty low on the GOP treason scale.
Being a member of another political party: Treasonous!
Seeing Red,
Would you like to point out where I have said I was a progressive? I am a liberal Democrat, who has sided with Republican stances here on this blog, such the SC overturning Obamacare.
Progressives are Americans, all you über right wing ideologues are ruining the Republican Party
. Congratulations.
Edutcher, you once again lie. Chickenlittle told you a few days ago that I am a valued commenter at Troopers place.
Do you have Alzheimer's? Why do you bring up Troopers place on the Althouse blog, I'm sure Ann doesn't appreciate it. Why don't you email Trooper if you are so concerned?
You are a weirdo.
If I ever met your daughter and she told me that while in uniform, I'd be asking her some hard questions, because she believes in what The Constituion is against.
As my daddy said about the writers of The Constitution, "They lived it."
Progressivism is really nothing more than old world feudalism, meet the new boss, same as the old boss but 2 loaves of bread instead of 1. That is not what the US is about.
And here come the progressive with the usual pack of lies about the war to justify his un-American ideology. Nevermind the tacit smear of the Military as being complicit to torture and war crimes. Nevermind that the Progg Hero, Obama, is doing the exact same things.
Proggs are real big on crimalizing the ordinary when it suits their political pruposes.
Well, Communists have a political party here in the USA. So do Nazis. As do Progressives. All anti-American in application, while they blather about the "human rights" they actively seek to subvert.
Edutcher, I don't engage in a "prove you are a nurse contest" with a hospital security guard.
If I haven't proven myself to be a nurse on the couple of threads that deal with death and dying and hospice over the past two or three days, then you are an ignorant fool.
Prove to me you don't have Alzheimer's. Then I will post my nursing school graduation picture as my avatar.
And I always ask, what do you want to progress to? You label yourself. Liberal Democrat in today's USA isn't that far off.
Me? Uber Right Wing? LOLOLOLOL
I actually wasn't around for the health care topic, a stopped clock and all that.
Iare.
machine said...
Starting a war based on false pretenses, torturing prisoners in violation of law, and actively standing in the way of US economic growth are all apparently pretty low on the GOP treason scale.
"Slam dunk, Mr President".
The Obama administration's CIA director, Leon Panetta, and Mr. Goss have both disputed Mrs. Pelosi's account.
"I do think at a certain point you’ve made enough money"
Never let facts get in the way of a good lie, huh?
AllieOop said...
Edutcher, I don't engage in a "prove you are a nurse contest" with a hospital security guard.
And here I thought I was on her Ignore list.
Must have hit a nerve.
Go ahead, regard him as a nut. You'll not have to ask what he thinks of you.
I read what he thinks of Debbie Waterman Schultz the First and I LOLed all over the place RingOTFLing back and forth, then I sat up and thought, "why did that nice man hold back?"
He reminds me of so many of my dad's friends. Deadly serious ass holes, and so I feel a certain comforting warmth of familiarity. I know what to expect. I find him very pleasing and refreshing. I like him.
Mike Tyson claims that it is a disgrace that no one has shot George Zimmerman. His comments are in line with the thoughts of the Congressional Black Caucus whose members have issued any number of overheated statements. Guess which dumb remark will receive the most publicity and the most high brow repudiation.
I was over reading at the Communist Party of America website. Sounds identical to Democratic rhetoric. I don't see why "communist" would even be an insult to modern Democrats.
Yea, you have all that historic genocide, and the unblemished record of catastrophic economic failure, but those guys were not Americans - good, fair-minded, freedom-respecting types like we have in the Democratic party. Those guys just didn't do it right, but the ideas are still sound.
Edutcher, I respond when I feel it's necessary, when you act the fool as you do any other time, you are not worth responding to.
When Oop mentions "a hospital security guard", I think we can rest assured that's what she really did.
Freudian, y' know.
As Fen proved with bathtub swabbie, any Naval connection of hers is purely for propaganda purposes.
AllieOop said...
Edutcher, I don't engage in a "prove you are a nurse contest" with a hospital security guard.
If I haven't proven myself to be a nurse on the couple of threads that deal with death and dying and hospice over the past two or three days, then you are an ignorant fool.
Prove to me you don't have Alzheimer's. Then I will post my nursing school graduation picture as my avatar.
4/12/12 10:31 AM
___________________________________
Dear Allie,
This blog has a long, long history
of poseurs. Assuming the guises of veteran, captains of industry, brain surgeons, etc. After a while, they have been smoked out as astroturfers, Media Matters camp followers, and JUCO sophomores rubbing it out in Mom's basement. Ergo, there is a huge built-in presumption of you being a false flag operation. Sad, but true. Hang in there. The initiation period takes a while. You will learn the secret handshake later.
--Yea, you have all that historic genocide, and the unblemished record of catastrophic economic failure, but those guys were not Americans - good, fair-minded, freedom-respecting types like we have in the Democratic party. Those guys just didn't do it right, but the ideas are still sound.--
We're the ones we've been waiting for!
We care, we're different, this time it really, truly will work!
We just need the right people in place! Honest!
In 7 years, this vile ideology of death will celebrate 100 years of "The Revolution."
It won't work. It hasn't and outside of lobotomies it won't.
I don't know Allieoop personally, I wager that the rest of you don't either, so flinging hatred at her is not really going to get you anything but hatred in return. Until I learn different, I will accept her claims as factual. Just as I accept everyone elses. If there comes a time when their logic, or contrived story fails, I will know. The thing about contrived stories is that they do fail.
In my encounters with Allie, I haven't caught her out in any prevarications, or logic flaws. Just as I haven't with SGT.TED.
Sgt.Ted claims to be in the armed services, but I have no way of knowing. Same way with everyone on this blog.
I like Sgt.Ted, I like Allie. I like Ed, and even Garage(well...sometimes).
As far as Alan West, he was MY first choice for presidential candidate. A real hero. Torture? Prisoners? He fired a pistol near a enemy combatant that was not dressed in a uniform, a spy. Spies are usually executed when captured, and this one should have been also. Instead Col. West got information from this POS muj and saved a bunch of American lives.
That man will always have my respect, if not my support.
As far as commies in congress? You throw a rock into a pack of dogs, and the one that's hit is the one that barks.
Ps. Sgt Ted, et al...
One of the things we like about the constitution is freedom of speech, even for those we don't agree with. If the other side censors free speech, why would we want to emulate them? If we loose the public debate then it's on us. We should have used better arguments.
Edutcher, do you think Ann will llike you more when you clutter up a thread about Allen West with personal lies and attacks on me? Do you think you could be more of a sychophant?
You are the one personally responsible for the fact Trooper is no longer here, IMO, by doing the same sort of hateful lies and trouble making.
Good work Edutcher, the Althouse blog was a better place for having Trooper here, it should be you who are gone , not he. Meade may choose to delete this, but it needs to be said.
My last word on Edutcher unless he continues to propagate lies about me.
Here's what I think about Allen West. I wish that all of the black people in America would aspire to be just like Allen West.
That would solve a lot of problems right there.
Keep speaking the truth brother.
"Starting a war based on false pretenses, torturing prisoners in violation of law, and actively standing in the way of US economic growth are all apparently pretty low on the GOP treason scale."
Actually, they don't register at all on the treason scale as per U.S. law.
What is the difference between what those in the communist party want in American policy and what these leftist Congress people want
Communists are at least honest about their intentions?
I am a liberal Democrat, who has sided with Republican stances here on this blog, such the SC overturning Obamacare.
and yet before that you supported it with the appeal to authority "my husband was a doctor".
Allie wouldn't have a problem with her hubby being an indentured servant to the state? What's next, a state-given apt. because he was a doctor?
AlleyOop,
You know, I think you're right.
This blog is all about you, your daughter, and how you are treated and/or challenged.
Now...who will speak to Ms. Althouse about changing the name of the blog?
No Nathan Alexander, the blog isn't about me and my family, so why don't you and Eddutcher STOPmaking it so.
Why do you think it's OK to derail a thread by making up shit about people, who have made a comment you disagree with?
Is it the way to debate honestly, by continuously trying to besmirch your opponent? You are doing exactly what Allen West is doing, engaging in dishonest hyperbole.
AlleyOop,
You brought up your daughter. You are complaining about people challenging your statements.
But this is somehow all someone else's fault?
Is this part of the so-called "War on Women", too?
So why do you think you have more right to free speech because your daughter served overseas than someone who actually served overseas themselves, hm?
You never answered that before.
Sgt Ted, et al...One of the things we like about the constitution is freedom of speech, even for those we don't agree with. If the other side censors free speech, why would we want to emulate them? If we loose the public debate then it's on us. We should have used better arguments.
I do not call for censorship. I call for truth telling.
Collectivist ideologies that assert Government control over liberty and redistribution of wealth rather than protecting private property are inherently un-American in nature.
Progressive intellectuals are quite open in their admiration of European style Progressive welfare states in their lamenting our lack of Universal Health care as well as the usual raft of giveaways that rely on taking large amounts of money from other people by force. Note those nations do NOT protect individual liberties that are unique to the USA.
Progressivism is anti-American in the sense that it is a return to Aristocracy, but instead of bloodlines, the criteria to be elevated are Credentials from a University and holding certain political opinions.
Progressives openly proclaim their frustration with the US Constitutions limits on Federal Government Power and their desire to subvert those limitations in order to enact their policies. That should be red flag enough to anybody who is paying attention.
I'm not censoring anybody. I'm expressing my opinion.
Why don't Progressives like being called Communists?
What, exactly, are the distinctions between what Progressives believe, and what Communists believe?
Can any Progressives list the distinctions?
AllieOop - you say you speak for your Progressive daughter in uniform while she is serving in Afghanistan - so, can you list the distinctions between Progressives and Communists?
Damn, I so enjoyed being on her Ignore List.
Nathan Alexander, no I am not complaining about people challenging my statements or my politics, I am complaining about dishonest debate tricks, like lying about your opponent, as Edutcher and Fen do when they know they are outflanked.
Say what you want about my politics or my daughter's progressivism, but at least be honest and don't make lies, that's cowardly.
Don't call Sgt. Ted a traitor. It distracts him from calling other troops traitors long enough to clutch his pearls and fall onto his fainting couch.
Leftards have been in government for a long, long time. FDR embraced his communist brethren which legitimized them. HUAC failed to get rid of them, now look at what we have.
You're the one who dragged your daughter into this. You used her as a shield.
All we're pointing out is there is a disconnect with your daughter taking the oath to uphold The Constitution, liberty, being free in their persons, being citizens with a limiting State power and being a collectivist which regresses us back into subjects, indentured servants, slaves for the greater good of the State.
You can't have liberty without having security in your person and you can't have security in your person w/o liberty.
Because what the State/King gives, the State/King can take away.
That is history.
Those wonderful European progressive countries are still mentally subjects, and for some, literally subjects. That's their history.
I am a citizen, not a subject. The State does not always know what is best.
From the moment Barack Obama was elected President by a broad alliance and cross section of the electorate, the corporate driven and lavishly funded extreme right-wing went on a rampage, blocking basic legislation that can bring the country out of economic crisis, and attempting to take back every progressive gain from the New Deal to the Civil Rights movement.
Therefore, the struggle in which we are engaged is a struggle to protect and expand basic democratic rights. To win this sharp battle will take unbreakable unity by all democratic minded people, and especially from the labor movement, racially oppressed, women and youth - the core forces for social change.
...
This movement emerges out of an intensive summer of organizing for "jobs not cuts," including the Congressional Black Caucus and Congressional Progressive Caucus jobs hearings and listening tours, and the roll out of the ten point Contract for the American Dream including proposals for large scale job creation to put people to work and meet community needs, funded by taxing the rich, ending the wars - ideas now supported by the majority of people in the country.
...
An even larger and stronger alliance than that which elected Obama in 2008 will be needed in 2012. The lessons of these three years underscore the essential role of street heat by labor and people's organizations to protect past gains and push a progressive agenda forward.
Rep. Keith Ellison, co-chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus made a ringing appeal to the American Dream conference about how to change the political climate. He said instead of griping, bring the message and organize in every town and community across this country
This week's election victories in Ohio and across the country show the correctness of that approach.
...
Voters in red states made choices that are opposite to the Republican presidential candidates' positions, showing the possibilities to shift in a progressive direction.
...
Labor, racially oppressed, women and youth voters play a special part as the most deeply affected by the economic crisis and, as a result, the most class conscious. These core forces, along with activists in the environmental and peace movements, senior and LGBT movements, are in position to give grounding and stability to the Occupy movement as it unfolds and provide the foundation to move in a progressive direction in this election.
That's from an article written by the chair of the Connecticut Communist Party USA, posted on the CPUSA website.
Seeing Red, I brought up my daughter as an example that progressives are Americans and patriots and serve this country. My daughter is YOUR shield, she puts her life on the line for all Americans, progressives, liberals,libertarians and even conservatives.
You didn't like being reminded that progressives are Americans and loyal to this country and the Constitution.
I brought up my daughter as an example that progressives are Americans and patriots and serve this country.
You're attempting to reach some equivalence in rates of military enlistment/commissions between political ideologies and it's disingenuous at best. It's akin to saying 620,000 men and women died in the US Civil War. There's no real equivalence between the number of actual deaths of men and those of women. However, I've seen contemporary history textbooks that try to cast it in exactly that light.
Althouse's "patriots " showing off their stuff again. It never changes. I'm out of here before I tell you real Americans to go get fucked.
Oh. No. hon. You stepped in this all by yourself. Don't go blaming me because you can't defend your position.
You didn't like being reminded that progressives are Americans and loyal to this country and the Constitution.
Do you consider communists to be loyal to this country and the Constitution? If not, why not? If so, can you identify a difference between progressives and communists?
Lyssa, my other daughter is an attorney too, it takes intelligence to be an attorney, why do you pretend to not understand my meaning? Disingenuous.
What does my being an attorney have to do with anything, other than the fact that I sometimes draw up POA docs?
Since you're obviously not following me, I was pointing out that it's absurd to suggest that the fact that you have a POA gives you some benefit of being able to use her to score points on a political blog. That's not anything like what POAs do. Obviously.
My daughter is YOUR shield,
Well, I'm your daughter's shield.
It's not like she's out doing patrols or analyzing enemy tactics, right?
She's a rear-echelon type who can only do her job because Combat Arms types use Intel to stop the bad guys before they can get to her.
So if you are done denying you are complaining about how mean people are, how about returning to the topic?
The Progressive ideology includes a "living" Constitution. Progressive Justices rule on the "constitutionality" of laws from sources other than the US Constitution. Progressive ideology includes the idea that the end justifies the means. Progressive ideology teaches that some people cannot be successful without extra help, simply due to their skin color. Progressive ideology asserts that a tax cut is "giving" something to the people who work to earn that money, as if all money belongs to the govt, and the govt graciously allows us to keep whatever the Progressive ideologues think is proper. Progressive ideology says that "at some point, you've made enough money," so that progressive politicians can take the rest and use it for progressive goals. Progressive ideology preaches that it is wrong to require an ID to vote, but requires the same people to show IDs in order to petition govt. Progressive ideology teaches that their vision of identity/grievance politics and wealth redistribution is inevitable, and they will bend laws (like disabling protections against campaign fraud and voter fraud) to bring it about.
That has nothing to do with your daughter's chosen occupation.
But I applaud her willingness to risk her life to save military lives overseas.
When she comes back, if she still embraces the evil ideology of Progressives, I will continue to denounce her political choices.
Now: since your daughter is out of it, try defending the Progressive ideology.
Trying to make yourself a victim to avoid answering difficult questions is typical of Progressive tactics, but does you no credit.
Nathan Alexander, why don't YOU stop mentioning her, so then I won't have to respond, jerk. You have No idea what her job is,except that she is a Corpsman.
Now why don't you quit trying to bash her and get back on topic?
"I am her financial and healthcare POA also while she's over there."
Don't forget her press secretary and opinion maven.
Trey
Lyssa, are you being willfully unintelligent?
Trooper must have taken a few days off from blogging so Allie comes here to goad the commenters.
No goading done here by anyone but liberals?
Whatever, carry on by all means dear conservative comrades.
Ms. Oop,
Nathan Alexander, why don't YOU stop mentioning her, so then I won't have to respond, jerk. You have No idea what her job is,except that she is a Corpsman.
Now why don't you quit trying to bash her and get back on topic?
Ma'am, I know what a corpsman is/does. Unlike President Obama, I actually know how to pronounce the word, too.
I never once bashed your daughter. I never once expressed doubt that your daughter is serving deployed.
I returned to the topic with several points about the Progressive ideology. Your response was 100% typical Progressive: calling names.
There is never any force with just words, anyway. There was never anything stopping you from defending Progressive ideology from the first.
I do give you bonus liberal hypocrisy points for you trying to claim the moral high ground for yourself in front of people who actually sacrificed as much or more than your daughter.
AllieOop said...
Nathan Alexander, why don't YOU stop mentioning her, so then I won't have to respond, jerk. You have No idea what her job is,except that she is a Corpsman.
Now why don't you quit trying to bash her and get back on topic?
Oh. Dear.
I don't think I've ever seen goalposts move so far, so fast.
Looks like I'm never goin to be able to get off this thread. Nathan Alexander, now you say you didn't just try to bash my daughter, what do you call minimizing what she does over there? You have NO idea what she does over there.
Nathan Alexander said;
"It's not like she's out doing patrols or analyzing enemy tactics, right?
She's a rear-echelon type who can only do her job because Combat Arms types use Intel to stop the bad guys before they can get to."
Ms. Oop,
You didn't like being reminded that progressives are Americans and loyal to this country and the Constitution.
That's an interesting bit of dishonesty there.
Let me recap and rebut:
No one is denying that Progressives are Americans.
An argument has been made that Progressives are more loyal to Progressive ideology than they are to the nation or the US Constitution. Or put another way, they are loyal to the nation only to the point that they can change it to be like Europe, and loyal to the US Constitution only when they can re-interpret the meaning of the words to do what the US Constitution would otherwise allow.
You chose to say that you have a daughter that is serving in a war zone as proof that Progressives are loyal to the nation and the US Constitution.
That fails to be proof on several points.
1) a single Progressive serving in the military does not provide proof for any/all Progressives who have never served. In other words, you can't use your daughter's service to get a free pass for undermining the US Constitution by insisting it is a "living document".
2) There are many reasons people serve that are not directly related to loyalty to the nation and the US Constitution. Or are you claiming Timothy McVeigh as a fellow Progressive Patriot? He served, too, no? Some people serve in order to pay off school loans. Some serve because the negatives (no stability in life, personal danger) are far outweighed by the positives (great retirement, see the world, generally more professional work environment, esprit de corps, etc). It isn't for everyone...the benefits are finely calibrated. But just serving doesn't mean someone is automatically a perfect American.
It comes down to character and actions.
What do you actually do? And what do you excuse in order to reach your goals?
If your daughter helps illegals vote so that Democrats can be elected in order to increase the possibility of getting Progressive Justices/judges into the court system to bring about changes you can't get passed through the legislature, then she is undermining the US Constitution in violation of her oath.
Nathan Alexander, now you compare her to Timothy McVeigh.
She didn't make rank so fast by being unstable.
Wow, whatever, you are just proving my point.
Looks like I'm never goin to be able to get off this thread. Nathan Alexander, now you say you didn't just try to bash my daughter, what do you call minimizing what she does over there? You have NO idea what she does over there.
I know what a corpsman does, Ma'am.
It isn't bashing her to assume she is doing her job, is it?
FMF Corpsman of the 1 MLG do not go out on patrols.
And yes, I do know that for a fact.
Now, there's nothing wrong with that. As a corpsman, she is maintaining the health and perhaps even actively saving lives. Very honorable.
But it isn't actually going out and engaging with the enemy.
Why are you so quick to assume I don't know anything about Navy Corpsmen?
I think it is becoming clear that you have no idea of the entire military context surrounding what what your daughter does.
But that isn't bashing your daughter. I'm sure she does a great job in her assigned duties.
Did I say she was out on patrols? Can you envision any other job she could do that might have her out in the Afghan population? I won't say what she does, it actually shouldn't matter.
I'm done with you. You are not the patriot you think you are.
You sound like the extremist, not my daughter.
Nathan Alexander, now you compare her to Timothy McVeigh.
She didn't make rank so fast by being unstable.
Wow, whatever, you are just proving my point.
If your point is you pretend to be a victim because you have no idea how to understand simple, clear English and can't defend your own ideology, then yes: I am proving your point.
But since you seem to need to have extremely simple concepts spelled out for you in simple words:
I did not compare your daughter to Timothy McVeigh in any way, shape, or form.
I asserted that it is possible to serve and still be a dirtbag.
If you see any similarity between a dirtbag like McVeigh and your daughter, that is a situation you need to come to grips with.
Now, I do see a connection between McVeigh and Progressives. Political violence is constantly a tool of Progressives in the US.
Look at the rapes, murders, and assaults of "Occupy" and the complete absence of same in the Tea Party.
Note the Progressive who set fire to Democrat HQ in Austin.
Note the Black Panthers putting a bounty on Zimmerman.
If your daughter does these things, then and only then does she compare to McVeigh.
Why do you immediately think your daughter compares to Timothy McVeigh, Ma'am?
After all, noting that Timothy McVeigh served doesn't seem to bother conservative servicemembers like SGT Ted and me. I guess it is because we are secure in our loyalty, patriotism, and lack of political violence in our ideology.
In stark contrast with McVeigh and Progressives, huh?
Ms. Oop,
I don't sound like your daughter because I'm not your daughter.
You think I'm an extremist because I support and believe in the US Constitution as written.
AllieOop - Why don't Progressives like being called Communists?
What, exactly, are the distinctions between what Progressives believe, and what Communists believe?
Can any Progressives list the distinctions?
You insist you speak for your Progressive daughter in uniform while she is serving in Afghanistan - so, can you list the distinctions between Progressives and Communists?
What would your Progressive daughter in uniform in Afghanistan want you to say on this?
YOU made the comparison, you sir, may have served, but you are not honorable.
At this point I am here only to defend my daughter.
Just an unnecessary observation on my part, but you seem to engender swirling vortexes of drama when you post that seem to always end up about you somehow.
I've lurked her for a couple years now and that's only been the case with less than a handful of commenters. I don't mean any more or less than what I'm saying, so don't read anything in to it other than what's actually printed above.
No Tim, it's not worth my time. I'm beyond disgusted at what has occured on this thread today, but I shouldn't be, it happens all too often here.
I will continue to defend my daughter though.
Scott it seems to always end up being about me, because when I say something that is unacceptable to some, the personal attacks start, and I don't fit in the role of victim, I fight back.
Stop making it about me, stop the personal attacks, then the thread stays on topic, simple no?
Stop making it about me, stop the personal attacks, then the thread stays on topic, simple no?
An appeal to authority is both a false argument and a sure way to derail a thread.
"No Tim, it's not worth my time. I'm beyond disgusted at what has occured (sic) on this thread today, but I shouldn't be, it happens all too often here."
That doesn't make sense. You're "beyond disgusted at what has occured (sic) on this thread today," by the inference your daughter, as a Progressive, is in fact a Communist. You have devoted lots of posts engaging other commenters on the point, but you can't take one short post to explain the distinctions between Progressives and Communists because it isn't worth your time. I would think it would be fairly short and easy to explain the distinctions, but I don't know. Maybe it really is complex and nuanced, and would take a lot of time.
But then, you really can't blame people for thinking your Progressive daughter is a Communist, if you aren't willing to explain why being a Progressive isn't being a Communist.
After all, Alger Hiss proved Communists have taken oaths to "uphold and defend the Constitution, from enemies foreign and domestic" too, and that didn't stop them from being Communists.
So help out your daughter's reputation, and teach us (well, me, at least) why Progressives aren't Communists.
Surely there must be some fairly critical, obvious distinctions?
Why else would Progressives be so outraged by Rep. West's comments?
PS: AlleyOop, If someone called one of my daughters something she wasn't, that was perceived as derogatory or otherwise defaming her character, and a simple explanation would clarify the matter, I would make that clarification.
Why can't you?
What authority am I appealing to? I am appealing to the commenters here, debate honestly, don't lie, don't be disingenuous, don make it personal when you disagree with someone's politics.
Really? Do you understand the structural requirements/deficits of a strong/weak appeal to authority when trying to support an argument?
Scott I am not appealing to authority, I am appealing to the commenters here, to debate fairly, don't lie, don't be disingenuous, don't try to smear the commenter personally when you don't agree with their politics.
In other words try to be honorable.
Allie, in all seriousness, go read your very first comment in which you mention your daughter, then go read up on what an appeal to authority is.
No Scott, I speak from my heart, am not an expert in the art of debate. I wasted more of my day here than was worth it.
(heavy double sigh)
Believe me, when I learned that crap it was glazed eyeball time, but that notwithstanding...
When you are trying to make a point and bring up an "appeal to authority" to bolster you case, ie, it's the way I say it is because this person in this position makes it so (just one example of the type), you are making a fallacious argument and do nothing to advance your original premise.
Aside from the fact, you bring in something that cannot be proven (or probably won't be) within the context of a blog like this one. As such, people pounce. That's not to excuse anyone's comment other than my own, which I'm wholly responsible for, but it's something to bear in mind.
If you're in full on anecdotal mode, and your posting is easily read as such, no sweat, but when you're trying to make a serious point, valid or not, by using an appeal (or argument) to authority like that, it doesn't do one thing to prove your position.
All of this, of course, is aside from the fact that in my six years of service, plus growing up in the military, plus all of the active duty family members I have, not once have I or any of them met someone who calls themselves "progressive". Not one.
My appeal to authority is just as valid, and just as unprovable, as yours.
Blogger AllieOop said...
No Scott, I speak from my heart, am not an expert in the art of debate. I wasted more of my day here than was worth it.
----------------------------------
You have a great heart; it's your head we're questioning.
YOU made the comparison, you sir, may have served, but you are not honorable.
I did not make any such comparison. You made the comparison in your guilt.
It is not bashing to assume she is doing her assigned duty.
You dishonor your daughter's service with your outright lies and pretend victimhood.
By philosophy, by policies, by everything they say and do, that's what they are. Truth hurts.
AllieOop: I am not appealing to authority, I am appealing to the commenters here, to debate fairly, don't lie, don't be disingenuous, don't try to smear the commenter personally when you don't agree with their politics. In other words try to be honorable.
...said the women who lies about being a "nurse"
Poser: I don't engage in a "prove you are a nurse contest" with a hospital security guard.
Right. You're just a "nurse" who doesn't know what an IV bag is or what needle size is required to administer it. Something a real nurse does every day.
Tomorrow your sockpuppet will be an attorney who thinks the 9th Circuit is a board inside her computer.
According to an inexhaustible amount of nattering ninnies, spouting an equal number of half-truths here, Teddy Roosevelt was not just a progressive, but a communist hell-bent on subverting the constitution.
Just a little more ignorance next time.
For anyone interested, I figured I'd point out that Fen is too dumb to realize that intravenous administration of medications is not a part of psychiatric nursing care.
Unless he objects to the characterization. In which case I'd ask him to tell me the names of these intravenously administered psychiatric drugs, their doses, indications, etc.
One thing you can always count on: A retrograde, if sufficiently motivated, will not be too dumb to use his own ample ignorance to try and "prove" something about his adversary. Often his paranoia really does run that deep.
And the idea that the constitution was a conservative document, filled with conservative ideas, is too laughable for words. The idea that it wasn't meant to apply to future American lives, filled with all sorts of innovations that did not exist in in 1787, is even more laughable.
For the retrograde, time does not merely stand still. It winds its way back into his own ass.
Try to imagine Thomas Jefferson cutting out sections of the bible with which he disagreed as an exercise in conservatism. It's just not possible. Only a rage/roid-filled lunatic could think such a thing.
And let's not even get started on his support for the French Revolution.
Were they communists, too?
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