[T]he March 3 killing of Bo Morrison, a 20-year-old from West Bend... came roughly a week after a neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford, Fla., shot and killed Trayvon Martin, 17, in another disputed case of self-defense. Both young men were black and unarmed, which has ignited charges that the shootings were racially motivated.... At Tuesday’s event on Library Mall, organizer Dan Suarez of the International Socialist Organization called the two deaths “lynchings.”A "3-season porch" sounds more like enclosed room within the house than a typical area that you'd call a "back porch." I would have used the preposition "in," not "on." There was a strange, uninvited man inside the house. Why would you hold a rally, inflaming emotions, declaring he was "murdered because of the color of their skin," when he was a home intruder?
“They were murdered because of the color of their skin,” Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Morrison was killed around 2 a.m. March 3 while hiding from police on the back porch of a house in Slinger. The homeowner — who had called police earlier to complain about loud noise from a party — found the young man on his darkened three-season porch.
Washington County District Attorney Mark Bensen declined to issue charges, finding the shooting met the criteria for self-defense under Wisconsin’s “castle doctrine” law, which took effect in December....
Morrison’s friend Christine Bohn, a UW-Madison student, told the crowd she was there when the parent who owned the garage where the young people were partying told them to leave to avoid police.It's very sad that Morrison made a bad decision and frightened a man in his own house, if that's what happened, but what is the basis for bandying this misfortune about as a racialized murder? Was the homeowner "afraid of young black men" or afraid of a home intruder? Everyone's afraid of home intruders!
“We were a group of kids who were forced to run to avoid underage drinking tickets,” said Bohn, 18. Bohn said Wisconsin self-defense law “unfortunately protected the wrong person that night.” She called the law “barbaric and inhumane” and said it encourages those who feel threatened to kill as a first reaction.
ADDED: Here's an item by "kazoo of the north" over at Daily Kos titled "Bo Morrison: Wisconsin's own Trayvon Martin." It begins:
People who have families in Wisconsin that go back more than 100 years have ancestral memories of surprising, uninvited, visitors. In the 1800's, the indigenous peoples of Wisconsin were known to walk into a house, warm themselves by the fire, and then leave. Fires in homes were viewed as communal property, which any cold person could use on their way to where they were going. They would not insult the owner of a fire by thinking inhospitable thoughts about them. Traditions go back to the French and Indian fur trading alliance. Traditions die.IN THE COMMENTS: David wrote:
I lived for over 20 years in Milwaukee, and that's how we survived. We would walk a block or two and duck into someone's house. Sometimes they had a fire, sometimes just the furnace was on. Twice in one year, there was a couple fucking in the living room. Of different houses. They never noticed us, and we just kept quiet and watched until we were warm enough.
We had no idea that this was a native American tradition. We thought the Germans had brought it with them from the Old Country. Sometimes (if they weren't fucking) the people in the house would talk to us. "How's the weather?" they would say. "Cold," we replied. But overall they just pointed to the fire and left us alone.
It all seemed so normal and civilized. Then I moved to Chicago and the first time I walked into someone's front hall, there was a 12 gage in my grille. The guy did not ask about the weather. He made me lie down and called the cops. Even though I am a white person!
It cost me $9000 in legal fees to get a probation and expungement for good behavior. The lawyer told me to say I was under the influence of some drugs (legal drugs of course.) He said if I told the judge that people in Wisconsin just walk into other peoples' houses in winter, the judge would have me up for perjury.
I wish I had known before that this was a native American thing. We can learn so much from their simple and thoughtful ways.
Posts
149 comments:
And the 'parent' hosting the underage drinkers...?
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Yes we have, by the same said young black men.
At Tuesday’s event on Library Mall, organizer Dan Suarez of the International Socialist Organization called the two deaths “lynchings.”
That's where I stopped reading.
Socialists are worried about self-defense against those who would steal property and life. But for the wrong reasons.
And do we see the pushback here and elsewhere in the media? If you kill a black man who is threatening your life or property, you will be scapegoated.
called the two deaths “lynchings
Only if you pretend the two black men climbed the tree, tied the noose around their necks and jumped.
Gun control and not racial grievance mongering, is the real hoped-for goal it seems. White guilt can be assuaged if we give up a little of bit more of the 2nd Amendment. Then everybody can go back to feeling good about things again.
It's very sad that Morrison made a bad decision and frightened a man in his own house, if that's what happened, but what is the basis for bandying this misfortune about as a racialized murder? Was the homeowner "afraid of young black men" or afraid of a home intruder?
Well, there is lots of evidence that people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men and that young black men are being shot and killed when young white men would not be.
Here is one study that examined this, "Across the Thin Blue Line: Police Officers and Racial Bias in the Decision to Shoot".
Key finding: "Among the community sample [non-police], these data revealed a clear tendency to set a lower (i.e., more lenient or “trigger-happy”) criterion for Black, rather than White, targets." (pg. 1015).
While it's impossible to know in any one specific shooting what the shooter was thinking before they shot someone, in aggregate, there is clearly a racial effect going on that leads to increased shooting of black men versus white men. As a white person, I'm not particularly worried that if I ducked into someone's porch to hide from the police that the homeowner who stumbled across me would decide to shoot and kill me. I see the increased rate that black people are shot because of racial bias as a problem in this country that we should all be working to change.
So why not hold a demonstration against underage drinking laws? That way 18-year olds don't have to invade peoples' homes to avoid getting ticketed.
One hundred fifty people is a rally?
The point is to drive out public debate about things that matter.
If people were worried about black males being shot, they'd look first of all at other black males who are doing the overwhelming proportion of the shooting.
But they're not worried about black males being shot. They want to deafen the economic crisis debate.
I lived for over 20 years in Milwaukee, and that's how we survived. We would walk a block or two and duck into someone's house. Sometimes they had a fire, sometimes just the furnace was on. Twice in one year, there was a couple fucking in the living room. Of different houses. They never noticed us, and we just kept quiet and watched until we were warm enough.
We had no idea that this was a native American tradition. We thought the Germans had brought it with them from the Old Country. Sometimes (if they weren't fucking) the people in the house would talk to us. "How's the weather?" they would say. "Cold," we replied. But overall they just pointed to the fire and left us alone.
It all seemed so normal and civilized. Then I moved to Chicago and the first time I walked into someone's front hall, there was a 12 gage in my grille. The guy did not ask about the weather. He made me lie down and called the cops. Even though I am a white person!
It cost me $9000 in legal fees to get a probation and expungement for good behavior. The lawyer told me to say I was under the influence of some drugs (legal drugs of course.) He said if I told the judge that people in Wisconsin just walk into other peoples' houses in winter, the judge would have me up for perjury.
I wish I had known before that this was a native American thing. We can learn so much from their simple and thoughtful ways.
I think that we can fairly use the word "tragic".
But the notion that this young man in Wisconsin wouldn't have been shot if he'd have been a white hay-seed Scandinavian is moronic.
And yes, a "three season porch" is *in* the house. It's a "frozen north" thing.
I don't know all of the facts of either case, but I do know that before someone uninvited made it any further inside my home than a screened in porch, I would also shoot them. I'm not certain that in the dark I'd register the color of the intruder first either.
Also, if there were adults over 21 present who knew that there was underage drinking going on, why on earth would they not be the people responsible for this death? After all, they told the kids to leave because the police were on the way. (And how did they know the police were on the way?)
I am sorry that two young lives were lost. I am more sorry that our nation is so eager to divide itself. "We the people", not we the women, we the Native Americans, we the Latinos, we the African Americans, we the redheads we the geniuses or any other group you could fall into. One group. One people. One nation...not this tribalism that I'm seeing everywhere now.
"people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men"
Due to racism or discernment?
The "castle doctrine" is as old as mankind.
It can never be repealed, only criminalized.
How exactly was this 20 year old 'kid' forced to run in order to avoid a ticket?
A ticket.
He willingly chose to flee. He also chose to flee into someone's home.
Might as well blame the drinking age as Castle doctrine.
Also note that the article contains another gross misrepresentation. Martin was not shot 'under' a stand your ground law. Zimmerman and eyewitnesses confirm that Zimmerman was on his back, and unable to flee, when he shot Martin. So 'stand your ground' was not applicable.
"Well, there is lots of evidence that people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men and that young black men are being shot and killed when young white men would not be."
You realize you are using a stereotype to criticize a real human individual to whom you ascribe a stereotype?
You're against stereotypes... yes? No?
Please experience cognitive dissonance.
I want to know you are still alive.
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Seven black teens have been arrested on suspicion that they committed a hate crime when they attacked a 15-year-old Hispanic boy while he was walking home from school"
/via Drudge
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Hoodie-Wearing Gunmen Kill 1, Wound 5 in Bobby Rush's Chicago District
Black people need to be able to defend their homes and their persons too, you know.
Under the law, a black homeowner shoots an intruder and he is protected from a murder charge.
Repeal the law and what is morely likely to happen when that black homeowner shoots an intruder? Can you say "prison"? Of course he is going to go to prison -- he's black.
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Fourteen people have been shot and two are dead in what may be one of the worst mass shootings in South Florida history.
"As a white person, I'm not particularly worried that if I ducked into someone's porch to hide from the police that the homeowner who stumbled across me would decide to shoot and kill me."
Andy, you fool, start worrying! You can't intrude into a home and not scare people. When someone hears and intruder, picks up his gun, and goes to investigate, you -- whatever color you are under that skewed hat -- are in danger.
Your race-based complacency is really really dumb. You don't deserve to feel so good based on your whiteness. It's not fair to black people that you get to luxuriate in your whiteness like that.
We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men. Wel afroamerican men must be afraid of afroamerican men. Most murders of AAM are on the hands of AAM
You realize you are using a stereotype to criticize a real human individual to whom you ascribe a stereotype?
In that same comment, I specifically said, "While it's impossible to know in any one specific shooting what the shooter was thinking before they shot someone, in aggregate, there is clearly a racial effect going on that leads to increased shooting of black men versus white men. " [emphasis not in original]
I'm specifically not making any claim about what the guy who shot Morrison was thinking. I'm saying, in aggregate, there is evidence of a racial bias that causes more black men to be shot.
Are you saying that issue shouldn't be raised around any particular shooting of a black person because it might lead people to make a false conclusion about the racial bias of the shooter?
"I see the increased rate that black people are shot because of racial bias as a problem in this country that we should all be working to change."
Unfortunately, "working to change" this, to whatever extent it is true, is utterly destroyed every single time there is a national uproar over someone who was either clearly and horrifically guilty (like that fellow who was executed for walking up to a cop after he was on the ground and shooting him in the face) or when there is a tragic event due to the Stupid. And while the Stupid is a Very Bad Thing, it's not *racism*.
And the thing is, Andy, you wouldn't be running from the cops and hiding in someone's home, but if you were, say, *cold* and you rang the doorbell, someone might let you in to warm up.
No one is helped by blowing these "racial" things up and demanding that the noose be brought out for the shooter in some sort of tit-for-tat generational revenge.
All it does is prove to everyone who *might* have worked on a real problem that it's just Sharpton (or whoever) doing his song and dance and *lying* again.
And white kids do suffer from "death through stupidity" probably as much as anyone else. That doesn't make the news either, of course.
A homeowner has every right to believe, and to act on the belief, that someone breaking into their home is able and *inclined* to hurt them. No one should have to wait to find out if they're *just* going to steal something.
And people do get beaten to death. No one has to wait until after that happens in order to defend themselves with deadly force.
More young lives would be saved by a public service that explained that the person whose house you enter or the person you attack does not have a way to read your mind and *will* and must assume that you're there for the worst and if they are armed, no matter what a nice guy you are, you could well be dead. So don't be *stupid*.
Andy: As a white person, I'm not particularly worried that if I ducked into someone's porch to hide from the police that the homeowner who stumbled across me would decide to shoot and kill me.
I would shoot and kill you.
Not taking any chances. Don't know how many you are. Have a wife and kids to protect. You have NO business being in my house.
Center mass, empty the chamber. Only one story for police: "I was in fear for my life".
Andy, Ann's trying to tie your hands.
It really is rather disgusting, in its implicit racism, for these folks demanding repeal to simply assume that blacks don't own homes and they don't ever have need of self-defense.
"Under the law, a black homeowner shoots an intruder and he is protected from a murder charge.
Repeal the law and what is morely likely to happen when that black homeowner shoots an intruder? Can you say "prison"? Of course he is going to go to prison -- he's black."
Thank you, Bender.
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"...blacks, 24 percent of New York City’s population, committed 68.5 percent of all murders, rapes, robberies, and assaults in the city last year"
I don't know what happens to Bayes' Law in the modern stereotype hysteria.
Maybe math is hard saves it.
"Suarez said in an interview before the rally. “He was a kid. He made a mistake. Is it one he should’ve died for?”
Of course not.
But the universe doesn't care about *fair*. Sometimes mistakes kill you. Doesn't make them not "mistakes." Doesn't make you a bad person. Doesn't make anyone else to blame.
It just makes it a tragedy.
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"Tyson shot James Cooper, 25, and James Kouzaris, 24, last April 16. The two men were vacationing in Sarasota and spent an evening drinking when they got lost and walked into a housing project where Tyson lived."
/Avoid Ghetto Ap tag
Your race-based complacency is really really dumb.
He's not complacent, he is just sure that any bad thing that happens to him will not be because he is a white person.
He thinks any bad thing that happens to him will happen because he is a gay person.
So the supposed solution is to repeal the "castle doctrine"? That would mean that if someone breaks into my house, and I reasonably believe that the intruder intends to inflict serious bodily harm or death on me or another occupant of the home, then my only legal options are (a) flee the house (along with my family and whoever else is under my roof) if I can, or (b) hope that the intruder isn't as threatening as I reasonably believed him to me. That would be contrary to human nature. People won't do it. People will defend themselves and their families in their homes against deadly threats if they can, regardless of the law. All that repeal of the castle doctrine would do is turn scared homeowners into manslaughter defendants.
I wonder if these people know the difference between the "castle doctrine" and the "stand your ground doctrine." The first is based on a man's home is his castle and he has a right to use deadly force protect himself and his family while inside it. The latter is that you don't have to retreat from a threat when in public.
Do these people expect the law to force you to allow people in your house and t do whatever they want without you resisting? Have they ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? Most people I know, including myself, are at the point that when we hear the cry of "Racism" our reaction is a sarcastic "Yeah, right."
I know lots of black kids via my kids. Invariably, they are good kids, never had a problem with any of them. But, the portrayal you see on TV and in the movies, by the hip-hop, rap crowd, I see when I drive through the "right" area of town tells a different story. The crime statistics tell a different story too. Whites are twice as likely to be murdered by a black as a black by a white. Blacks are "seven times more likely than whites to commit homicide." Males ages 18-24 have the highest homicide offender rate.
What these protesters are asking is akin to telling women they are profiling males when they worry about rape. Any intelligent person weighs the information they have regarding the day to day dangers they face. How well one survives these dangers depends on how well the information correlates with reality and the quality of one's strategies work. A strategy not based on reality won't work very well.
If you can't defend yourself in your own house, where can you defend yourself? Are we supposed to be a nation of sheep to be slaughtered by any psychopath who happens by?
These idiots' time would be much better spent insisting that parents raise their kids they way the parents of the parents of my kids' black friends raise them, with love, discipline and a parental presence guiding the along the way.
BTW - one of those black kids will be playing in the Final Four in a few minutes, Darius Miller for the University of Kentucky. Please cheer him on.
Why are people comparing crime stats in NYC to tiny ole Slinger, Wisconsin where according to one web site, there was not one murder from 2001-2010, no rapes, and one robbery?
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Three men
have been charged with capital murder in connection with the death of a Mississippi State University student outside a dorm room... shooting death of John Sanderson, of Madison"
A person who dies crushed by a column does not die a tragic death, says Aristotle
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"Six men have been charged in a mob beating that the Seneca police chief says was racially motivated."
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"Craven County deputies are asking for the public’s help to locate a man who they say kidnapped a 28-year-old woman. The woman, Kathryn Bolton, was found Monday afternoon at the home of the suspect, 35-year-old Ryan Brown, in Franklin County. Bolton was taken to a hospital to be evaluated."
Do these people expect the law to force you to allow people in your house and to do whatever they want without you resisting?
My example was incomplete. Let me state it again --
Under the law, a white homeowner or black homeowner shoots an intruder and he is protected from a murder charge.
Repeal the law and what happens when a white homeowner shoots an intruder? Jury thinks to themselves, "this could have happened to me" and acquits. Even if the evidence shows that the white homeowner was reckless and the intruder posed no threat, there is a good chance of jury nullification.
Repeal the law and what is morely likely to happen when that black homeowner shoots an intruder bent on raping and stealing? Can you say "prison"? Of course he is going to go to prison -- he's black.
As a white person, I'm not particularly worried that if I ducked into someone's porch to hide from the police that the homeowner who stumbled across me would decide to shoot and kill me."
I don't think race had anything to do with it. It sounds like he was highly pissed off at these kids keeping him and his wife up. Apparently he was banging on the roof of a car with kids playing loud music. I think he was enraged the cops couldn't really do anything about the kids in the garage next door. But, the cops were called, and they were literally yards away on his street, and they called him back, and he went and loaded his gun. I think he thought the kids were fucking with him for calling the cops. Allegedly Morrison was shot with his hands in the air, and the homeowner communicated three short sentences before he shot Morrison.
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Treven Lewis entered a not guilty plea Tuesday for the death of a man who was trying to break up an underage drinking party
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"Police say Angeline was found inside her home on Saturday suffering from gunshot wounds to the head and stab wounds to the neck and chest. Timmons has been charged with murder, abuse of a corpse and gun offenses"
"I'm saying, in aggregate, there is evidence of a racial bias that causes more black men to be shot."
Why don't you cite some of this evidence? The evidence I'm aware of is that whites are more likely to be killed by blacks than blacks are to be killed by whites.
Has anyone ever explained why the Sanford police failed to test Zimmerman for drugs & alcohol?
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"Minneapolis police were on patrol near 5th Street and Nicollet Avenue on March 23 at about 7:45 due to many recent "flash mobs" of individuals who were assaulting and robbing unsuspecting pedestrians.
A Brooklyn Park man is facing assault, riot and drug possession charges after officers watched him spark a mob melee that left a bicyclist with a broken jaw from a bus stop assault and swelled into a small riot"
Now, Joe Horn, who went out of his way to shoot two suspected burglars in Texas back in 2007 should have been charged, but the grand jury refused to indict.
why the Sanford police failed to test Zimmerman for drugs & alcohol?
And what is the probative value of whether or not he had drugs/alcohol in his system? How is that relevant?
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"An 85-year-old woman was sexually assaulted and battered to death by a home invader who also shot her 90-year-old husband in the face"
The "castle doctrine" and the "stand your ground" law is not the same thing.
Not much is said here about the circumstances of the Wisconsin case, so that might well be a case where the "castle doctrine" would apply.
However, the Trayvon Martin case has nothing to do with Florida's "stand your ground" law, since Zimmermann indeed was following Martin and thus could expect to be challenged.
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
"42-year-old man whose attempted-rape case was dismissed in November is accused of sexually assaulting and killing another woman less than three weeks later.
Jackson has a criminal history that spans more than two decades and four other states, including a 2008 conviction for raping an acquaintance in South Carolina.
The woman told police that Jackson raped her repeatedly. When she tried to escape during the multihour ordeal by hitting him in the head with a bottle, Jackson chased her down, then punched and choked her."
So let's see -- a property-owner who was allowing illegal activity warned you that the cops were coming about your illegal activity, so you were "forced" to engage in another illegal activity (fleeing the police) to avoid the consequences. One of your number engages in additional illegal activity and is killed as a result. Somehow, however, this death is the result of a "barbaric and inhumane" law that allows homeowners to defend themselves from intruders -- and, of course, racism.
Yeah.
Right.
Sure.
Maybe if you and your friends had thought before having a loud party -- or fleeing from a ticket that does not even rise to a misdemeanor -- none of this would have happened. But then again, considering this possibility would imply that you need to take responsibility for your own actions instead of blaming someone else.
Trayvon Martin would sound more blameworthy if his name were spelled Tray von Martin
Blogger bbkingfish said...
Has anyone ever explained why the Sanford police failed to test Zimmerman for drugs & alcohol?
Has anyone ever explained why the Sanford police failed to order a tox screen on Martin's corpse?
Well, there is lots of evidence that people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men and that young black men are being shot and killed when young white men would not be.
First of all, the majority of the numbers of young black men killed and shot at are being shot at and killed by other young black men. Black on black crime.
How is this fault of anyone other than the participants?
Second: I don't care what color you are if you are breaking into my house, late at night or even during the day you are going to be shot.
There is NO excuse for barging into someone's home.
I might also remark that all cats look the same in the dark.
"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."
A quote attributed to Jesse Jackson.
Yep, John Mcwhorter talked about this in a recent Blogginheads stating that it's in the culture, and cited instances (I'm sure there are just TONS) of black cops profiling blacks. Well, it just happens all the time. Nothing new. That bloggingheads was notable also for how both McWhorter and Loury assumed a lot about the Zimmerman case.
Is that thing about walking into people's houses and watching them have sex while you warm up all being so very civilized a joke?
Dharun Ravi would like to speak with you about the dangers of watching people in their intimate moments.
Seriously, if you did that you are creepy.
Christ, what drivel!
First, that this is led by the International Socialist Organization speaks volumes about the agenda they follow (guess who they endorse for President).
Second, this "native American tradition" of strangers breaking into a house was usually followed by the murder of all males over the age of consent and all infants and toddlers, followed by the rape of surviving females, and a long march into captivity for any survivors; the warming by the fire occurred when the cabin was burned.
Andy R. said...
Well, there is lots of evidence that people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men and that young black men are being shot and killed when young white men would not be.
There is?
Hatman needs to get his head out of his froth and cite some.
People fear loud, violent young males, regardless of color, because trouble usually follows. That Hatman has spent so much time Occupying other people's property, it's no wonder he doesn't know the realities of every day life.
And Fen is right. The sign, "This house protect by Smith & Wesson", hangs in many a neighborhood where the hoodla are white. You find somebody strange in your house, he won't get a pass if he's your color.
PS What about the 7 - 10 black youts that beat an Hispanic kid screaming racial slurs.
Tell us, O Hatman, when were blacks taught to fear Hispanics?
People keep asking me to cite evidence. Did you read the study I linked above?
Washington County District Attorney Mark Bensen declined to issue charges, finding the shooting met the criteria for self-defense under Wisconsin’s “castle doctrine” law, which took effect in December....
Actually, the DA made two findings - not to be charged under laws applicable to self-defense, and then the situation was further analyzed to see if Castle Doctrine applied Bottom line - guy would have been just as dead and the homeowner just as innocent without the Castle Doctrine.
From the DA's report:
REPORT OF THE WASHINGTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE REGARDING THE SHOOTING OF MR. BO MORRISON ON
MARCH 3,2012.
In looking at this case, the Washington County District Attorney's Office ftst analyzed this case by considering the general law of self defense - without applying the Castle Doctrine presumption. We also analyzed this case by considering the Castle Doctrine. After carefully reviewing the facts and the law, no criminal charges will be filed asainst the homeowner.
First, the Washington County District Attorney's Office concludes that under the law of self defense which exists in Wisconsin (independent of the Castle Doctrine) that there is a basis to conclude that the homeowner reasonably believed that the force he utilized against Mr. Morrison was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself; and he therefore acted lawfully in self defense when he shot Mr. Morrison.
Lot of details and background to the case - this is a law blog - suggest reading it, before "doing your own math" and what did or did not happen.
There are many violent collisions between blacks and whites in America. For the last thirty or forty years, when a black kills a white in the course of a robbery or burglary, the assumption is that he committed the crime for economic reasons and that race was not a factor in his decision. My own opinion is that criminals are not tolerant, race blind idealists. If you check his record, I'm sure you could find inicidences of such a criminal referring to whites as "white motherfuckers", but the racial element is never illuminated at their trials......Conversely, if a white kills a black, he has an affirmative duty to prove that race was not a factor in his decision. If the homicide falls into a gray area, such as the Zimmerman and now this case, the assumption is that he was motivated mostly be racial hatred. This is patently unfair.
Doesn't matter, shoot first, ask questions later.
Better to be tried by 12 than carried out by 6.
Somebody tell Hatman targets on a range are not the same things as an intruder in your home.
More to the point, he wants to ignore the fact that black-on-black crime kills most black people.
Who made black people fear their own?
PS Follow the links. This one is really heart-rending.
Also, if white Americans are as virulently racist and trigger happy as some propound, wouldn't it be wise to avoid breaking into their homes. The fact that his kid did so indicates that he did not think whites were virulently racist and trigger happy......White people, I'm sure, find many ways of ripping black people off, but they simply do not engage in street crimes in black neighborhoods. My guess is that there has not been a white burglar or white mugger in Harlem in the last fifty years. Who's afraid of who?
I wish I had known before that this was a native American thing. We can learn so much from their simple and thoughtful ways.
Yeah, I long for the old Native ways too, back before white men ruined everything with doors and windows.
I don't give a rip what color an intruder is when they come in.
As long as they leave, red or dead.
Stupidity is color blind.
Wait a bit for the left to blame private property - "capitalism killed that young person."
AndyR
Should you ever find yourself having entered someone's home uninvited nd that man or woman has firearm aimed at your center mass before they pull the trigger take comfort in the fact that I will be happy to officiate your funeral. No need to worry about that. Oh, and several of the folks here would be happy to read some of your better AA Blog comments. Ann could do the eulogy. It could be quite touching.
DADvocate
I could really enjoy a UK/KU NCAA Final on Monday. Let's hope so.
garage mahal - got your "facts" a little skewed, there. Article:
Kind told police that soon after he spoke to the Slinger officer, he returned to bed and spoke to his wife. Then he heard "banging" from the back of his house. He later told police he was scared that someone from the party might be retaliating for calling the police. So instead of calling the officer back, he got his .45-caliber Colt revolver from a closet, loaded it and went to check out the noise.
After first checking that the front door was locked, he went out through the kitchen to the rear porch, or three-season room. The kitchen door swung open into the porch toward the right. Morrison was also on the right side of the porch, crouching between a refrigerator and a dresser. Friends said he had gone there to hide from police, not to go farther into Kind's house. Kind said he did not notice anyone at first, but as he took a couple steps toward the door to the exterior he noticed someone stand up in the dark.
Kind told police he thought he said something like "Who are you," or "What are you doing," and then fired a single shot after the person raised a hand and took a step forward.
When police arrived, they found Morrison still crouched between the dresser and refrigerator, but found a bullet hole in the wall 49 inches from the floor. Morrison had been shot through the heart and lung.
It's a righteous, if tragic, shoot. I'm sure he left the wife to call the cops, and the 911 call certainly makes me think that if I had three kids in the house and reason to believe someone might be invading it, I'd better load my gun and get moving. They are begging for an ambulance.
911 call link.
This isn't a very good election topic - in a few months, we've managed to attack the Catholics, let Hispanics know that they are in deep trouble, and now we are chasing down those hard core redneck Wisconsins?
Generally, if someone comes toward you in your own house you'd be better advised to shoot first.
It's one thing to play with your own life, and another to play with the lives of your children and wife.
Morrison probably was somewhat drunk or stoned to cause his bad judgment, but he killed himself.
ignatzk
You mean like this:
http://news.yahoo.com/suv-hits-light-rail-train-sacramento-killing-3-124935536.html
Of course this was not a race motivated shooting. It was an intruder motivated shooting.
But it goes to show you that there are strong feelings of fear are in the black community that their teenage sons are way too easy to shoot on sight and that is a big deal to them.
A counselor once told me that it is never enough to say whether something is true or not when another person has strong unresolved feelings on the subject...those feelings become the subject that you must deal with.
Thats all.
"But it goes to show you that there are strong feelings of fear are in the black community that their teenage sons are way too easy to shoot on sight and that is a big deal to them."
Once policing their own and black on black crime is sufficiently addressed, then perhaps we might entertain such concerns.
Clean your own house before suggesting someone else should clean theirs.
Who would believe anything a SOCIALIST tells them? Especially about race.
Dude didn't get shot because someone thought he was "black".
Dude got shot because he was in someone elses house, LATE AT NIGHT. UNINVITED.
Now, you fucking anti-white racists shut yor fuckin pieholes. Because you don't know whats in their hearts.
Yea Im looking at you, you bigot Andy R. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Allegedly Morrison was shot with his hands in the air, and the homeowner communicated three short sentences before he shot Morrison.
Garage, you nitwit.
- Words and sentences are not the same thing.
- Raising a hand is not the same as "hands in the air."
Does every single home intruder get shot if the homeowner has a gun?
Are civilians more likely to shoot unarmed black people than unarmed white people?
If someone raises the concern that unarmed black people are more likely to be shot than unarmed white people, and the response is to say that in this specific shooting it wasn't about race, it doesn't actually answer their concern. [Not to mention, as I was very clear to say earlier, we have no idea what role race might have played in this shooting or any other.]
there are strong feelings of fear are in the black community that their teenage sons are way too easy to shoot on sight
I think I have the normal feeling of fear about being shot on sight. One way I deal with it is by not breaking in to other people's homes.
People keep asking me to cite evidence. Did you read the study I linked above?
Most of it. Can you explain how the calculation of the c criterion works? The study also found that the race of the target did not affect the ability to distinguish armed vs unarmed targets for any participant group, and I don't see how that's possible if the non-police were also "trigger-happy" in a race-dependent fashion.
Here's a little experement , Andy R. have a friend drive you down to Chicago and let you off at 63rd and Cottage Grove Ave. Don't stop the car. just have him slow down and kind of roll out. If you can find one, go hide in somebody's 3 season porch. make sure it's around 3 AM.
Make sure you leave a recent photo of yourself and your dental records with your friend.
The study also found that the race of the target did not affect the ability to distinguish armed vs unarmed targets for any participant group
What page was this on?
@MaxedOutMama
I stand corrected on Morrison raising his hands. Only raised one hand.
AndyR, if a plane crashed on the border between Texas and say, Oklahoma, carrying 220 passengers, where would they bury the survivors?
caplight45 - UK/KU's the match up I'd like to see too.
where would they bury the survivors?
The surgeon was his mom.
I don't think race had anything to do with it. It sounds like he was highly pissed off at these kids keeping him and his wife up. Apparently he was banging on the roof of a car with kids playing loud music. I think he was enraged the cops couldn't really do anything about the kids in the garage next door. But, the cops were called, and they were literally yards away on his street, and they called him back, and he went and loaded his gun. I think he thought the kids were fucking with him for calling the cops. Allegedly Morrison was shot with his hands in the air, and the homeowner communicated three short sentences before he shot Morrison.
I like how you know exactly what was going on in the guys head.
Morrison's blood alcohol level was more than twice the legal limit, and he was on a "no alcohol consumption" order after numerous run-ins with the cops, including one on New Year's Eve in Madison, where he punched a bouncer in the face and then ran away, after the bouncer confiscated his fake ID.
He might have gone into the shooter's home to hide, or maybe he went in to go after the shooter for calling the cops earlier. This was not a nice young man. He went through two doors to get into the three-season room, an outer aluminum door and a more solid inner door. There was not a locking door between the room and the rest of the house, and the shooter's wife and three children under 10 (two of his own, one sleeping over) were inside.
The owners of the house next door knew their daughters were having a drinking party. The wife was at work but the husband was in the home asleep.
Morrison's friends really weren't friends at all, because at least some of them must have known about the "no booze" order. Yet there they were, all partying together. Several of them have threatened the shooter in Facebook discussions, and some have even threatened other posters.
Andy R. said...
Does every single home intruder get shot if the homeowner has a gun?
Are civilians more likely to shoot unarmed black people than unarmed white people?
Obviously, Hatman lives in a cloister where the real world never intrudes.
Intruder is all anyone facing one needs to know, usually it's too dark to get details. If you're in fear for the lives of the wife and kids (I know, beyond Hatman's feeble imagination), you don't care about the rest.
If someone raises the concern that unarmed black people are more likely to be shot than unarmed white people, and the response is to say that in this specific shooting it wasn't about race, it doesn't actually answer their concern. [Not to mention, as I was very clear to say earlier, we have no idea what role race might have played in this shooting or any other.]
More likely?
By what race? Because most unarmed black people are killed by armed black people and, if he ever grows up and takes his head out of his froth, Hatman might understand what the real issues are here.
They were murdered because of the color of their skin
Evidence presented? I'm guessing none.
Oh. ISO. Why read it them? Making fun of them is too easy.
"And what is the probative value of whether or not he had drugs/alcohol in his system? How is that relevant?"
Relevant? If it's irrelevant, why did they test Trayvon?
We can say that we know that, at the time he was killed, Trayvon Martin was clean. But we'll never know how gooned up the guy who tracked and killed Trayvon might have been (or on what), because the police didn't test him.
When an on-duty police officer kills a citizen, he is required immediately to turn over his gun and badge and submit to D&A testing. The law, in this case, disagrees with you that it is irrelevant.
Probative? Well, if we knew Zimmerman was loaded on moonshine or meth, we could reasonably argue he was violating the law by operating a motor vehicle and by carrying a loaded firearm. It also would cast his pursuit of the teenager in a less favorable light for most, I would think.
I think he was enraged the cops couldn't really do anything about the kids in the garage next door.
Read the DA's report before thinking - the link is @ 6:19
The cops had told him by phone that they were clearing the scene and would issue tickets to the hostesses in the morning. When he hung up the phone, he heard noises downstairs in his house. He took his gun - reasonable, especially because he had just been told by the police that they were clearing the scene.
About an hour earlier he had been outside telling the kids in the car to turn down the music & that he was calling the police to make a noise complaint. When the police called him to followup an hour later, they noted that it sounded like they woke him up.
If a young white woman were to just walk into my home at night, I think I would not shoot her. Right or wrong, I must admit that I would use profiling in that situation. I'm working on my problem though - are you?
OT
DADvocate
You guys had me worried for a bit but I figured you'd surge. good game. Hope we do as well.
Do you think a Black homeowner would be more likely to shoot a black intruder than a white one? And if so, is he a racist?
What if he's been assaulted 5 times by young Blacks in his neighborhood, but never by a white one?
Just got back from the 4-hour concealed training class. Boy, that was illuminating, and I kid you not. Seriously.
"I think he thought the kids were fucking with him for calling the cops. Allegedly Morrison was shot with his hands in the air, and the homeowner communicated three short sentences before he shot Morrison. "
How is this a problem? Other than for the dead kid and whoever cared about him?
The homeowner was within his rights, without the castle law.
Even in pus-filled democrat infested Illinois, you can shoot someone in your home that is not supposed to be there and sneaking around.
Fuck this kid and the baby-leftist a-holes that decry his passing. This stupid fucker was gonna get shot sooner or later, violating private property.
They ought to give that homeowner an award.
This will send the message that it is supposed to send - don't do stupid shit, kids, or you may wind up dead.
“We were a group of kids who were forced to run to avoid underage drinking tickets,” said Bohn, 18."
And you are still a group of kids, just a slightly smaller group now.
No, Garage, you stand corrected because what you wrote made it sound like the guy was trying to be inoffensive, and in fact, he made what must have been construed by any reasonable person as an offensive move. What you wrote was the OPPOSITE of the truth. Maybe you get your "facts" from race-baiting bloggers, I don't know. But I suspect you are a demagogue yourself, because you don't seem to be able to read facts and comprehend them.
The DA's report outlines the facts, including that the bullet hole was 49 inches off the floor, so we know the homeowner was telling the truth.
The guy stood up and raised A (ONE) hand, which in the dark looks like an extremely aggressive move - and indeed, it may have been. He was a few feet from the homeowner at the time.
If you'll read the DA's report you'll see that Morrison was up on charges for assault of a bouncer a few months ago, and there was one other charge.
At the time that Morrison was shot, he was closer to the interior of the house than the homeowner.
One cop observed splinters on one of the outside doors. The drawer was open and stuff was hanging out of it. Probably happened after the shot, but who knows?
It's not at all impossible that the Morrison intended to beat the guy down and leave - Morrison probably couldn't see the gun in the dark. No way could Morrison have been ID'd by the homeowner, Morrison is drunk, he's already gone to abnormal lengths to hide from the cops (because he's out on bail and he's going to jail if the cops pick him up), and then he makes what is either the stupidest move ever made or a very aggressive move.
It's a righteous damn shoot if there ever was one. Morrison committed suicide.
It's a tragic, unnecessary death, but the homeowner couldn't even have told the race of the guy at the time. There's nothing about race in this incident - and people like you who want to inflame feelings are either irresponsible or just plain immoral.
I think you've read the DA's report which lists the wife's testimony that she heard her husband yell "What are you doing in my house" twice and then "Stay where you are", and you twisted that into an "interchange", when in fact it is very strong evidence of a defensive gunshot.
In short, I think you owe the the blog an apology or owe it to yourself to slink away. In shame, because you're just not a very decent person.
Do you have any self-respect?
This is the section from the DA's report:
She indicated that she heard her husband say, "What are you doing
in my house?" two times and that he was yelling this. She stated that she also heard him say
,,Stai where you are," and then she heard a single shot fired. She indicated that after the shot,
she was trying to call 911 and that her husband yelled to her "I shot him". She stated that her
husband y.ffø for her to get an ambulance. She indicated that she called 9l I and stayed on the
line until police anived on scene'
The wife and husband were never together after the shooting; the physical evidence, the homeowner's confused recollection, and the wife's testimony do indeed provide the strongest possible evidence that the homeowner was acting reasonably. That's why the DA concluded it would be unethical to charge him.
If you fear Blacks more than Whites for whatever reason (experience or just unfounded fears) are you a racist. You don't hate them, but you might shoot one because they scare you more. Can it be considered a hate crime if it involves no hate, but rather just fear?
No time for political correctness when an intruder is in your house...you can't take the chance that it's just drunken college kid. Here in St Louis, we just had two black kids break into a cop's house, take his gun and kill him. Didn't hear Rev Sharpton or the International Socialists raise a stink about that one.
Fen said...
Suarez declared. “We have been taught in the United States to be afraid of young black men.”
Fourteen people have been shot and two are dead in what may be one of the worst mass shootings in South Florida history.
I drive by there every night on my way home. The funeral home years ago was an excellent Italian restaurant. Neighborhoods change and not always for the good. Interesting in that less than five miles north and east of the funeral home there are homes in the eight figures, one of the top malls in the country and Adventura is a pretty nice area. Also less than five miles to the south east there is one of the most exclusive malls in the country and also very, very expensive homes.
Down here breaking and entering is an excellent way to commit suicide.
As a white person, I'm not particularly worried that if I ducked into someone's porch to hide from the police that the homeowner who stumbled across me would decide to shoot and kill me.
You've never even been to a bad neighborhood, have you? The idea your white skin is somehow going to shield you from bullets is, quite frankly, crazy.
We can say that we know that, at the time he was killed, Trayvon Martin was clean
Cite? And it needs to be better than a link to MSM distortions. ABC and NBC were just busted editing the 911 call to make Zimmerman appear racist, so they can't be trusted.
I was going to write something intelligent here, but as I am watching the Final Four on CBS Ozzie and Sharon Osbourne came on. Sharon asked Ozzie if he had a secret fantasy and Ozzie said "Yes, I'd like to fly to New York and get a colonoscopy." At which point the shot shifted to the announcer for Dave Letterman's show who, against a glittery background emblazoned with a large sign, asked everyone to enter CBS's colonoscopy sweepstakes.
So I'm going to go get the whiskey now.
When an on-duty police officer kills a citizen, he is required immediately to turn over his gun and badge and submit to D&A testing. The law, in this case, disagrees with you that it is irrelevant
Also, please cite the law you are referring to. Sorry, but there is so much bullshit being pushed by Lefty race-baiting sites, everything needs to be verified.
So, to sum up:
1) cite the tox report that indicates Martin had no drugs in his system.
2) cite the law that indicates Zimmerman should have been likewise tested.
MaxedoutMama
I started my comment by saying it wasn't racial. You're taking this to a whole different level. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Well, there is lots of evidence that people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men and that young black men are being shot and killed when young white men would not be.
Just not being killed by whites. According to DoJ statistics (Expanded Homicide Data Table 6), blacks are approximately 13 times as likely to be murdered by other blacks, than by whites, while whites are only about 6-7 times as likely to be murdered by whites than by blacks. And, whites, including Hispanics, only commit about 20% more murders than do blacks, despite being 4+ times as numerous. It is even worse for murders (Expanded Homicide Data Table 3), where blacks commit approximately 10% more murders than do whites, while being 1/4-1/5 as numerous. Interestingly, the overall Black murderer rate doesn't drop below the comparable White rate (overall) until age 30, and doesn't start equaling the white rate, per capita, until retirement. Also, see the murder victim rates by race, sex, and age (Expanded Homicide Data Table 2).
Look at the tables. Make your own conclusions. But keep in mind that these statistics were published by the Holder DoJ (for 2009), who is not a friend of White people.
No time for political correctness when an intruder is in your house
It is a fact that most burglaries are committed by whites. Most home invasions are committed by whites. Most rapes are committed by whites. Most murders are committed by whites.
If a white intruder breaks into your home late at night, you have very good reason to believe that he is there for a criminal reason.
I grew up in Milwaukee and David's account of that charming German custom brought back some wonderful memories.
The tradition did not stop with simply getting warm. No,no, not at all, it was customary for the surprise visitors to wake up the women of the household and have them cook something up for them.
And before they left, it was also customary for the visitors to search through at least four drawers. And any money or jewelry they found they were entitled to keep. The family was quite insulted if the surprise visitors were reluctant to follow this custom.
Sometimes the family was tied up. All in fun, of course, because that too was part of the tradition.
When it came time to leave, the family would often offer the visitors hugs and gifts.
I started my comment by saying it wasn't racial. You're taking this to a whole different level. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.
Garage, I want to know where you get your "news." Who do you read that interprets the question, "Who are you?" as three short sentences. What blog or newspaper turns a raising hand into "hands in the air."
Maybe you should watch Fox News instead. You'd be much better informed.
It is a fact that most burglaries are committed by whites. Most home invasions are committed by whites. Most rapes are committed by whites. Most murders are committed by whites.
Actually, blacks account for a majority of the homicides in the US, despite being only about 13% of the population.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
If white female midgets had a well-earned reputation for violence and criminality, people would naturally be a little wary of them.
What page was this on?
Did you read the study you linked above?
"With respect to the analysis of d ', these data largely replicated
previous work, such that target race did not affect participants’
ability to discriminate armed from unarmed targets", first sentence p 1012, under the big graph illustrating that d' was the same for white and black targets among all three participant groups.
Separately, I'm not seeing most of the analogies being cast between the Florida situation and the Wisconsin situation, on their faces or on the face of it in terms of them.
"Actually, blacks account for a majority of the homicides in the US, despite being only about 13% of the population. "
It may be unfortunate and uncomfortable to face, but think about what that simple math says about finding an uninvited Black youth in your house, compared to any other race.
Statistically, the odds of them being a murderer is incredibly increased just by their race.
That sucks for innocent Blacks, because it makes profiling simply the logical thing to do. It doesn't mean you shoot them, but the innocent reasons they could be there are substantially less likely than the not-so-innocent ones.
I would be very careful if I was a Black about acting suspicious, as I'm sure most of them are aware.
This is one of the first things I would explain to my child if he was Black. It's not fair, it's just statistics.
Likewise, when the FBI is looking for a serial killer, they pretty much have my profile, which is why I never gave that a whirl. They would be on me in minute.
Also:
Stoop. Porch. Screened-in porch. Three-season porch [room]. All season porch [room]. Are all of these all the same?
Also: Detached garage. Attached garage. (Hell: carport.) External shed. Yard.
Are all of these things the same?
Race, race, race. That seems to be point of the competition, now, at last, here.
Helluva thread.
I heard "Andy" was a left-wing pedophile.
Don't know if its true or not but I thought we should all should know that.
Likewise, when the FBI is looking for a serial killer, they pretty much have my profile, which is why I never gave that a whirl. They would be on me in minute.
I was DC during the DC sniper days. The nincompoops-in-charge (Chief Moose & FBI) spent the whole time looking for two white guys in a white van. The perps turned out to be two blacks in a maroon car.
Separately, and in addition, I'm trying to understand under what visions (and from what I can tell, there are multiple ones, from both axes) it makes sense to conflate castle with not-castle. What a high-stakes game, all the way around. What a mirror. What a shame--or at least, how foolish. Is it OK at Althouse to say such a thing--you know what I mean, use the word "shame"--any more, even in the context of "it's a damned shame" or even "it's foolish shame"?
I am lot more scared by white liberals than black men even though black men are 10x more likely to commit a murder than other men.
The damage white liberals have done and are doing is astonishing. The US is already $16 trillion in debt (worse than Greece per capita) and they delight in making that worse.
Thankfully, when the stuff really hits the fan, white liberals will be easy to deal with: smash your rifle-butt past their limp-wrists and cave their heads in. Don't waste ammo on such weak targets.
Fen: Also, please cite the law you are referring to. Sorry, but there is so much bullshit being pushed by Lefty race-baiting sites, everything needs to be verified.
So, to sum up:
1) cite the tox report that indicates Martin had no drugs in his system.
2) cite the law that indicates Zimmerman should have been likewise tested.
No evidence presented after 5 hours.
I shall assume that "bbkingfish" is full of shit.
Maybe you should watch Fox News instead. You'd be much better informed.
But sadly, not by much. Been watching their talk shows today. They are still about 48 hours behind the information loop.
I blame their not so recent dive into innane blather (like "The Five").
Used to be a time you could count on FOX to present the side the MSM was covering up.
Instapundit is now my primary information broker on the full story.
Garage, I didn't say you were attributing it to race - I wrote "people like you, who are trying to inflame feelings"
By those words I stand, because here is what you wrote:
I don't think race had anything to do with it. It sounds like he was highly pissed off at these kids keeping him and his wife up. Apparently he was banging on the roof of a car with kids playing loud music. I think he was enraged the cops couldn't really do anything about the kids in the garage next door. But, the cops were called, and they were literally yards away on his street, and they called him back, and he went and loaded his gun. I think he thought the kids were fucking with him for calling the cops. Allegedly Morrison was shot with his hands in the air, and the homeowner communicated three short sentences before he shot Morrison.
Now, I would LIKE to believe that this was misinformation you got from a source that was trying to inflame feelings and cobbled it together for that purpose. I googled this case to try to find information, and the ones I ran across were doing it for a racial purpose.
But why I think this was bad was because someone's dead, people are very angry, and restating a few facts intermixed with implied motivations in a way such as this that implies the opposite of the truth may cause further violence and is intended to obscure the truth and portray a falsehood.
It's clever, in a vicious and malicious way.
A normal, decent human being does not pass off such false information about another human being.
If you didn't know before, you know now that it was misinformation. You're not helping anyone. You're potentially endangering someone. To the extent this sort of thing ever finds its way to the parent's ears, you are increasing the suffering they bear. What they lost in that small dark room was not just the drunken 20 year-old, but the chubby one-year old they held laughing in their arms, the three year-old who marched proudly up to offer a wilted flower, the boy who laughed with joy as he learned to somersault, the proud graduate. Such a loss is impossible to absorb and understand and accept.
The homeowner and his wife, and their undoubtedly traumatized children (who are old enough to understand the outcry against their father and the accusations against him) have some claim upon normal human empathy, and the pleas of that couple for an ambulance and the shivering, shocked man the police found have also a claim upon normal human empathy.
Attempt to show some normal human empathy, and if you don't have it, fake it until you make it.
If you can't even fake normal human empathy, then you just have to be taken up and told firmly that it is bad, wrong, harmful and deeply irresponsible to even pass on the lies you did pass on, and that a normal human being, upon discovering that he or she had done such a thing, would express regret and withdraw those words.
Morrison's dead and can't be helped - you're alive and hopefully for a long time. Make those GOOD years, Garage. Make them helpful years. Make of those years something that will give those at your funeral proud stories to tell.
You won't accomplish that this way.
It's clever, in a vicious and malicious way.
I appreciate the impassioned response. You are reading something that isn't there though. I didn't read the police report. I got it off one of the local blogs. I corrected the record. That's about all you can expect in a blog comment section. I've made no judgement of Mr Kind, nor would I want to. Let's leave it that.
"Rusty said...
Here's a little experement , Andy R. have a friend drive you down to Chicago and let you off at 63rd and Cottage Grove Ave."
Not sure how long it's been since you've spent any time in the area, but that's like 3 blocks from my house. While far from the safest corner in the city, it's part of the UofC police territory and also an EL terminus.
If you want a scary intersection, you need to go further south and/or west. 73rd & Halsted, maybe...
If you fear Blacks more than Whites for whatever reason (experience or just unfounded fears) are you a racist. You don't hate them, but you might shoot one because they scare you more. Can it be considered a hate crime if it involves no hate, but rather just fear?
Bagoh20: What are your thoughts on that? How would you answer your query?
You know, it's really sad. Bo Morrison was a three-sport athlete in high school and had completed a carpentry course at an area tech college. He was a good-looking young man with parents, siblings, and friends who loved him. He could have done something productive with his life.
Instead, he chose to violate the law repeatedly, drink to the point that he was under a no-alcohol order, punch at least one person in the face, resist arrest at least twice, and finally effectively commit suicide by entering someone's house without permission in the middle of the night because he was too cowardly to face the consequences of his behavior.
Just sad how stupid choices can cost someone his life. He had no one to blame but himself.
AKA "Liberals rally for thugs".
a fearcrime? Is that prosecutable?
"Bagoh20: What are your thoughts on that? How would you answer your query? "
I don't think there should be hate crimes, and I don't think fear and hate are the same, but it's an interesting question: can you help it if you are racist? If you were raised that way, and then someone close to you was killed by the same group you already were taught to hate, how much self-control would you have at that point?
Are you even capable of being a reasonable man, if your life experience was not reasonably normal? Is there justifiable hate, even of a racial kind? I'm sure in practice, as with hate crimes, it depends on what race is on which end of the hate.
I'm sure this question is nothing new to people who study law, but it is to me.
It's self defense if you fear for your life, so what if you are just a pussy with a gun who scares really easy. The law is not treating easily scared and fearless people equally. Is it a reasonable man standard, or just if the jury believes you were scared, no matter how irrational the fear?
Bender says "It is a fact that most burglaries are committed by whites. Most home invasions are committed by whites. Most rapes are committed by whites. Most murders are committed by whites.
"
The actual murder count is 6568 for whites + hispanic and 6556 for blacks. Just saying...
As a practical matter, how do those saying this shooting was racially motivated claim the events unfolded? Are they claiming the homeowner planned to only shoot black intruders, was able to clearly identify this intruder as black and then was calm enough to carefully process this information and made a conscious decision to shoot because this was a black intruder?
KLDAVIS said...
"Rusty said...
Here's a little experement , Andy R. have a friend drive you down to Chicago and let you off at 63rd and Cottage Grove Ave."
Not sure how long it's been since you've spent any time in the area, but that's like 3 blocks from my house. While far from the safest corner in the city, it's part of the UofC police territory and also an EL terminus.
If you want a scary intersection, you need to go further south and/or west. 73rd & Halsted, maybe
Still. You get the point.
Well, there is lots of evidence that people perceive young black men as more threatening than young white men and that young black men are being shot and killed when young white men would not be.
Young black men, as a population, are several times more likely to commit violent crime than young white men.
Your link in no way demonstrates black men would be shot when white men "would not be"
But again, everything you believe is a lie or in service to a lie.
bbkingfish said...
We can say that we know that, at the time he was killed, Trayvon Martin was clean.
You know that?
How?
Can you link us to a report showing that?
It would be news.
Thanks.
garage mahal said...
I didn't read the police report. I got it off one of the local blogs. I corrected the record
Your ignorance and biases for you beliefs about incidents on which you no utter clue regarding the facts.
This ignorance is a convenient political tool for you.
Did I miss it, or am I the only person to note that the homeowner who shot Morrison was also the homeowner -- or one of the homeowners -- who called the police about the noisy party. Then he finds one of the party-goers has broken into his house after the police have arrived.
Why would he not suppose that young Morrison was there to exact some "street justice" and that he, the homeowner, was in danger?
Ah, Garage, I am very glad to read that you did not originate that libel, which is particularly nasty because it seems it could only have originated from someone who had read the DA's report and made the deliberate choice to twist the facts contained in it to portray the opposite of what happened.
It was a very good thing to correct the record on the blog where you read that.
Demonstrating against the right of people to defend themselves with guns vs home invaders is a violation of common sense and is political poison for the left (so keep demonstrating, lefties). Once you invade somebody's home, you are living on borrowed time.
garage mahal said...
I didn't read the police report. I got it off one of the local blogs. I corrected the record
You don't get a pass with some mealy-mouted palliative when you think you may have crossed the line and revealed just how morally vacuous you actually are, asshole.
It doesn't mean a thing. You'll pass off outright lies as facts to support whatever narrative you think or are told to think will benefit the left. You do this on nearly every subject that comes up and you do this over and over again.
It's not stupidity, because you don't come off as stupid in other ways. It's not ignorance, because even when corrected with references and links to factual information you'll recycle the same distortions a day later, two days, a week or whenever it suits you to reuse the lie.
You are quite simply the worst sort of fuckin liar garage. You believe and act as if your lies are justified because they serve what you think is the higher moral ground, which makes you nothing more than a water carrier for the most damaging and poisonous segment of the left.
Lots of people think being able to use deadly force in self defense is going too far. Until they need to use it.
I dont care what color of skin a possible attacker or burglar is. And it certainly doesnt matter if they are "armed" or not...especially in today's world where mixed martial arts is suddenly in the mainstream, and one well-placed kick or punch can leave you dead.
Its hilarious how blacks complain about being "racially profiled", while people like Al Sharpton are out saying in public that there should be an "escalation" of public discourse.
"especially in today's world where mixed martial arts is suddenly in the mainstream, and one well-placed kick or punch can leave you dead."
Much, much more likely is that a punch or kick briefly stuns you sufficiently to enable the aggressor to get you down on the ground where he can do as much ground and pound as he wants. He might be the kind of perp who does not leave witnesses.
Why take chances? If a perp invades your home, the prudent thing to do is to shoot him.
"Much, much more likely is that a punch or kick briefly stuns you sufficiently to enable the aggressor to get you down on the ground where he can do as much ground and pound as he wants. He might be the kind of perp who does not leave witnesses."
Only if the perpetrator avoids skittles and ice tea. Because that's not compatible with such violence.
Bag man,
That is funny. I am a big fan of your posting and am impressed that you have your own company (thus creating jobs). Keep up the good work.
Thanks Steve,
I've only owned my company for 15 months now, and I still find it hard to believe, but it's doing great and we have hired over 30 new people. I'm in heaven.
yikes. I can understand all of the arguments as to why the man was justified in shooting Bo Morrison. That being said, all I can do is think back to growing up in my neighborhood and how all the kids used to play "hide and seek" during the day and the scarier "bloody murder" at night, wherein the whole neighborhood was fair game for hiding. We hid in garages and old barn buildingsa, anyplace that seemed like a good spot. Thank god my neighbors back then didn't shoot first and ask questions later. The worst I remember was getting hollared at by one to get the hell out of his garage.
"Don't Tread 2012 said...
AndyR, if a plane crashed on the border between Texas and say, Oklahoma, carrying 220 passengers, where would they bury the survivors?"
Any damn place they wantsta!
To traditionalguy:
It's a BIG DEAL to me not to have to fear another home intrusion by someone with a rap sheet a mile long, starting as a teenager - then watch the slug get off in the court system because he turns State's evidence. We are the ones who now live in prison with all the locks on the doors, the fencing, the cameras and several years of learning how to defend our home the next time someone tries it. ANYBODY that crosses my threshold without an invite from me is an intruder. I will not hesitate in protecting my home and my family EVER AGAIN. I will not be checking their skin color to be sure I'm not offending Sharpton or Jackson or any of the other clowns!
It's a BIG DEAL to me to be able to take my kids to the State Fair to see the animals and eat cream puffs, without being in fear of being beaten by a mob of thug teenagers as we try and leave the park.
It's a BIG DEAL to me to have to worry about gang activity/fights in bus shelters or on buses threatening me or my kids when we try to support the Metro bus system and ride around Madison to go to the library, shop on State Street, see a show until late in the evening on campus.... Need I go on?
Perhaps the parents of any race who are so worried/fearful that their children are so easy to shoot while they are invading homes, threatening families leaving the State Fair, threatening bus riders in Madison, attacking people around campus, threatening kids in the schools..., should work a little harder at teaching their children how to stay within the law and behave in society.
Sheesh - no "brainer". You cause serious trouble and there are consequences to be paid. Perhaps now, these criminally negligent parents will take us seriously when we say none of us will be their children's victims any more. WE AREN'T KIDDING.
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