"... a residence complete with a swimming pool and a 'professional PGA putting green'..."
Oh, now, now. I clicked through to the pictures of the house, pool, and putting green and it's not really that nice.
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152 comments:
It's a nicer second home than my any administrative assistant I know owns.
-XC
PS - Buying property in AZ? Seriously?
Why won't Warren and his secretary release their tax returns so we can see if they are being truthful?
PS: 36 Obama aides owe $833,000 in back taxes
It's a nicer second home than my any administrative assistant I know owns.
If this lady is being used as the "fairness" prop by Obama, that means Obama thinks everyone should have 2 homes. And if you dont, you are being screwed by those dirty old rich bastards.
Man, I wish my tax rate was such I could afford two homes.
There is no Buffet Rule.
Std. McMansion, but it does not snow in Phoenix. The lady should, however, be aware that 120 F in July is no joke for an elderly person grown up in cool country.
One hopes that Mr. Buffett will apologize for having gotten her into this, and by way of making amends will just pay off that mortgage for her.
You're right, Althouse, it's a "not that nice" 2nd home for a secretary. Only in America!
It is the least he should do.
Warren Buffett seems to be a generally respectful person, so I figured he got sanction from his "secretary" (this job title seems a bit mythical) before he thrust her into the public tax argument. She denies it, though.
Then she became a prop at a SOTU speech. "It was like a dream come true," she said. What a world!
The lesson here is don't live on the coasts. The Bosaneks two houses are worth less than $500K total. $217K for the house in Nebraska and $255K for the house in Arizona.
Some day I will sell my house in coastal New England and move to Nebraska and buy a house that is double its size for less money.
Or not.
* * *
In terms of Ms. Bosanek's taxes, now that she has a mortgage to finance and additional property taxes to pay off, I think we can estimate that her tax payments will go down dramatically.
(I've always been suspicious that Mr. Buffett and his proxies have compared Ms. Bosanek's marginal tax rate to their percentage paid. Certainly, in Gov. Romney's case, the percentage paid is what has made the headlines in comparison to the middle-class marginal rate on last dollar earned.)
They're saying she's paid $200k to $500k per year.
Surely it's not anywhere near $500k. If it were, why have a $115,200 mortgage on a $144,000 second house?
Not that nice? Well, it's no mansion. But it's certainly nicer than anyplace I ever dreamed of living when I was a kid. And we would have thought her and her husband rich if they had built or bought that house in our neighborhood.
They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine. That includes secretaries, children, you name it.
She works for one of the richest men in the world. Of course she makes a good buck.
In 2009 the Obama's earned $6 million, and paid an average rate of 31%.
This woman is lying.
@Freeman -- I interpreted the article to mean that they paid $144K and took out a $115K mortgage. But rereading it I'm wrong. I think they paid $144K, with $29K down.
This makes my point more strongly. By living in Nebraska and buying a second home in Arizona in a down market the total value of the two houses is about $361K.
On the coasts, that buys you a two-bedroom condo in a bad neighborhood.
The Bosaneks aren't living large. They're living inland.
I demand that her earned income tax rate be lowered to 15%. That would be fair.
But Buffet and Obama will NEVER allow that. It would cost 50% of treasury's revenues.
It's all about painting the Romney Campaign and the do-nothing Congress into a corner because they defend a 30% capital gains rate.
I'm beginning to suspect that maybe in conjunction with some sort of raise (or perhaps the lack thereof), Buffett offered his "secretary" the perk of meeting the Obamas instead, though he didn't make it clear that it would come at the cost of having her life examined.
That was a 15% capital gains tax rate.
They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine.
Before I respond to that, let me talk to Joe the Plumber.
Speaking of Arizona, I am surprised Ann has not jumped on board with the other right wingers praising GED holder Jan Brewer's finger-waving confrontation with the President.
She's putting that uppity black man in his place, I guess.
Oh, yeah, he's "thin-skinned." I guess Brewer and the rest of the crackers out there have a number of issues with Obama's skin.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/01/jan-brewer-on-obama-confrontation-hes-very-thin-skinned-video/
people should really not be having swimming pools in that part of AZ
Joe the Plumber is hardly equivalent to a secretary. He gets out there and throws attacks frequently. This secretary is not doing that.
Can you wrap your head around those differences?
Tom Maguire is pretty far into this question, trying to figure out what she earns based on some of the figures that have been reported. One of the key points many are overlooking is that Buffett is including social security and medicare taxes into the calculation of her effective tax rate.
AlphaLiberal said...
They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine. That includes secretaries, children, you name it
That was a nice bit of projection you had there.
She works for one of the richest men in the world. Of course she makes a good buck.
Well Buffett has said publicly she is paid $60,000.
Who's lying?
Speaking of AZ, when is Anne going to get aroudn to talking about Brewer and the finger wag at Obama and 'feeling threatened'. Its the Wisconsin supreme court all over again!
AlphaLiberal said...
Joe the Plumber is hardly equivalent to a secretary.
Nice to see you think secretaries are so lowly.
Well if she makes >250K, she is a millionaire whose taxes the Prez wants to raise. If that happens, what will they do for an encore?
He gets out there and throws attacks frequently.
Hilarious.
He didn't "attack" anyone.
But a helpful Democrat did relase his personal tax information to left wing journalist.
The number of lies you will tell yourself in order to be a leftist are endless.
"secretary" (this job title seems a bit mythical)
I suppose they are using the old name (kind of like stwardess) in an effort to make her seem poor and with a lower skilled job. Basically a servant for the billionaire.
Perhaps Warren can loan his tax accountant to her so she can hide some income.
Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?
Yeah, not so much anymore. they only respect the Presidency when a Republican holds the office.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/39831_AZ_Gov._Brewer_Angrily_Lectures_President_Obama
Arizona is one of our craziest states! Hope to the racist Joe Arpaio, who should be in jail for using his office for political vendettas and for busting on Latinos for being Latinos.
Oh, yeah, he's "thin-skinned." I guess Brewer and the rest of the crackers out there have a number of issues with Obama's skin.
Hysterical.
Yes, you just know when someone uses the phrase "thin-skinned" regarding a black man they are racist!
A normal person would be embarrassed to be as stupid as to post that.
You're not.
PS, nice to see how your sort of a God President can't handle any criticism, even the slightest bit, isn't it?
"They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine. That includes secretaries, children, you name it."
Wrong. She was used as a political tool to attack Republican policies. Basically she started it.
So, as part of her perks she got to take the private jet to DC?
She must be pretty economically stable to be able to get a mortgage on a 2nd home since the UR wants to loosen up the rules to refinace 1st homes.
In Alpha Liberaland Jan Brewer's a "cracker" and it's the other side that's wall to wall racisss.
If it were, why have a $115,200 mortgage on a $144,000 second house?
Well, interest rates *are* crazily low right now. Maybe she has a better investment opportunity for the money? She probably gets good tips from her boss.
AlphaLiberal said...
Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?
Notice how you're trying to change the topic?
Gee, I wonder why that is, silly troll?
PS, "the right wing" never demanded any such thing.
Idiot.
Jay displays dishonesty or low IQ:
"Nice to see you think secretaries are so lowly."
Uh, no. I said that Joe is out there frequently making (bombastic and incendiary) political statements. He is a political actor.
This secretary is none of those things.
My statement has nothing to do with station.
"She's putting that uppity black man in his place, I guess."
He is only 1/2 black, but she is 100% woman. 100% woman trumphs 50% black.
Unless the black guy is also gay. Then he wins.
So is she forever wedded to whatever salary secretaries make now that they have made her into a national prop? Shame on Buffett and Obama. Aren't there any special perks for being a billionaire's secretary? Tells you how much he values her work.
No way she makes $500k. If she did, putting $29k down on a second house and taking out a $115k mortgage would be nutty. I doubt she's nutty.
In any case, even at $200k casting her as one of the downtrodden is silly.
$200K in NE? She'd be living like a king there with their cost of living.
Or he's a really cheap bastard, which he is. Screwing the treasury out of it's rightful due when he dies.
And what he did to his adopted granddaughter was horrible.
My parents saw that interview.
He was giving his descendents $10M each, she didn't get anything because she wasn't his blood.
He treated her fine until his wife died.
Next thing you know people will be protesting outside her home and claiming they teach her children.
Chuck66 said...
"She's putting that uppity black man in his place, I guess."
He is only 1/2 black, but she is 100% woman. 100% woman trumphs 50% black.
Unless the black guy is also gay. Then he wins.
Ha. I laughed out loud.
Then I realized - this wasn't a joke.
Oh, yeah, he's "thin-skinned." I guess Brewer and the rest of the crackers out there have a number of issues with Obama's skin.
uh. Dude. You're in fuckin Wisconsin!!
Rush just had a funny riff on this story.
Jay,
In this case, I think everybody is lying about everything.
Alpha turd
Conservatives objected to liberals calling Bush a chimp and Bushhitler.
Is it ok for us to mention monkeys and Obama in the same paragraph, or can we call him Hitler?
Just askin.
Hey, Jay, Obama is not the one getting worked up and wagging his finger in other peoples' faces. He kept his cool.
The hothead would be Jan Brewer, the High School dropout. The one who makes Rick Perry look smart and eloquent.
The central point of the Buffett Rule is sound despite this childish carping. Rich people should pay their fair share of taxes.
I just wish the President would point out what a miserable failure conservative economic policies like "trickle down" have been. They got their tax cuts and their deregulation and what happened? A massive economic meltdown and joblessness in 2008 (before Obama even won office).
And, they want to double down on those failed policies! Trickle down does not work!! Rich people hold onto their money and get richer by cutting wages and jobs! That's reality.
AlphaLiberal said...
They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine. That includes secretaries, children, you name it
Are you actually suggesting secretaries can't be republican?
Or they're underpaid?
One of the commenters at McMegan's posted a link to this letter from Buffett explaining how he came up with the number. Believe it or not, he uses Bosanek's taxable income as the denominator-- i.e., any income she was able to deduct is counted as non-income. Convincing stuff, for anyone who believes that tax breaks can only ever take the form of a rate reduction.
AlphaLiberal said...
Uh, no. I said that Joe is out there frequently making (bombastic and incendiary) political statements. He is a political actor.
This secretary is none of those things
So sitting next to the first lady and talking to the press about your effective tax rate is not political acting!
Some IBM HQ secs because they had OT were pulling in 6 figures 20 years ago. Those Blue States are really expensive.
IF I was still in my profession, I'd be pulling in 6 figures now.
AlphaLiberal said...
Hey, Jay, Obama is not the one getting worked up and wagging his finger in other peoples' faces. He kept his cool.
Hilarious.
Alternatively, Gov Brewer didn't bring the topic up.
But Obama, Mr. Cool, just had to.
How dare anyone write something he doesn't like!
Tank believe in collective guilt:
"Conservatives objected to liberals calling Bush a chimp and Bushhitler."
I did not call him those things. Few people did. I spoke out against any use of Hitler connotations.
Ya gotta admit, the guy did resemble a chimp in many ways, which is not a common criticism of White People. Whereas calling a black man a monkey has a long long history of racism, as you well know.
Crackers. Like Newtron Bomb Gingrich or Rick "Ewww" Santorum, who openly insult black people by saying they demand food stamps or are lazy.
Republican racism is right out in the open for all to see. Like Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's attacks on latinos.
I totally agree with Buffett that everyone's tax rate should be as low as his at 15%.
Freeman, making at 20% down payment and borrowing at 3% makes sense even if you have cash, especially if you can easily invest the cash in Berkshire Hathaway.
The central point of the Buffett Rule is sound despite this childish carping. Rich people should pay their fair share of taxes.
Rich people pay more than their fair share of taxes.
49% of working Americans have no income tax liability.
Where do you think the $2.2 trillion the government receives each year comes from, idiot?
just wish the President would point out what a miserable failure conservative economic policies like "trickle down" have been. They got their tax cuts and their deregulation and what happened? A massive economic meltdown and joblessness in 2008
Except there was no "deregulation" at all.
Anywhere.
PS: When Harry & Nancy took over the deficit was $260 billion and the unemployment rate was 4.6%
You need new talking points and a brain.
Jay, please provide a link to a recording or transcript of their conversation to back up this:
"Alternatively, Gov Brewer didn't bring the topic up."
I have not seen it and I have looked. Not that it matters. If someone publishes a book saying false things it's not wrong for a the subject of the lie to speak up.
Not that nice? There's a golf course on the property!
Republican racism is right out in the open for all to see. Like Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's attacks on latinos.
When latino drug lords behead latinos it's just business.
Gingrich or Rick "Ewww" Santorum, who openly insult black people by saying they demand food stamps or are lazy.
You can produce no quote by those two or any Republican saying any such thing.
Again, the lies you need to tell yourself in order to be a leftist are endless.
Who says it's false? It could be a matter of interpretation. His feelings were hurt. awww......
Or as it seems to be the case, disagreeing with someone is now bullying.
If someone publishes a book saying false things it's not wrong for a the subject of the lie to speak up.
Hysterical.
You can't name any "false things"
You're just here flinging poo.
It's real telling how worked up conservatives get if someone working person somewhere gets a decent pay check. They are very offended by this and demand working people's pay be cut, benefits be cut, standard of living be cut.
And you've had your way for decades and the thinning middle class is pretty pissed about it. Yet you will run your vulture capitalist for the Presidency so he can keep cutting taxes for the rich.
The rich benefit from our government, our law and order, our public infrastructure, more than anyone. Bunch of fucking moochers who want everybody else to pay their way.
So she owns 4000 sq.ft of home and she can afford the upkeep on both? Sweet! That's a lot of house to maintain at her age, who wants to clean all that and go up and down the stairs?
I don't think I'd buy a 2-story in Phoenix, but that's just me.
Decent paycheck - LOLOLOLOLOL
She's a tool.
Alpha,
Who demanded that we surrender our rights to criticize the President when GWB was in the office?
By the way, how did that whole civility thing work out for you and your leftist brethern? I still chuckle at how ridiculously transparent you were.
AlphaLiberal said...
The rich benefit from our government, our law and order, our public infrastructure, more than anyone. Bunch of fucking moochers who want everybody else to pay their way.
I'd say the 49% paying no federal income tax benefit quite nicely.
AlphaLiberal said...
It's real telling how worked up conservatives get if someone working person somewhere gets a decent pay check.
Hysterical.
This is what you're reduced to.
In AZ, that's a mediocre, family home. Plus it's out in Surprise. I have many just-out-of-college friends with houses just like it. It's something you could reasonably pay off in 10-15 years. Lots of people are buying those up for rental properties.
AZ may be hot, but it comes with its perks.
IF his secretary were really smart, she'd ask him to reduce her pay and take comp another way so she'd fall into the 49%. If she's really only making $60, that's not that much of a cut.
Here, Megan McArdle spreads some light for you
Link
Good thing Buffett isn't runnin' for president.
Althouse, since you already conceded a couple days ago that Obama would win re-election, how depressed are you, smitten w/mittens notwithstanding.
Now I don't want you doing anything crazy like posting a negative Romney article.
take care
Jay makes me wonder if there is any way to reason with modern conservatives (increasingly, no):
Jay:
"You can produce no quote by those two or any Republican saying any such thing."
Rick Santorum:
"I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money, I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money."
Newt Gingrich:
"And so I’m prepared, if the NAACP invites me, I’ll go to their convention and talk about why the African-American community should demand paychecks and not be satisfied with food stamps."
These are racist statements. When you characterize one race of people as lazy and demanding someone else's money, that is racism, plain and simple.
And they use it because it helps them win votes. Racism helped Newtron win South Carolina for a reason.
Jay,
You'll never get anywhere by pointing out that those who use the most services pay no federal income tax as Alpha has never been one for numbers or logic.
For him all economic decisions should be based upon anecdotes and warm & fuzzy feelings.
ick Santorum:
"I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money, I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money."
Rick Santorum did not say this.
You silly little liar.
"Working person".
Alpha:
Just who is it that determines who is a working person and who is not a working person? Is there a cutoff by income or zip code or what?
and Red, I have no doubt that Mrs. Bosanek is indeed very, very smart as well as discreet.
If she wasn't, she would never have mede it to mr. Buffett's office in the first place.
"I'd say the 49% paying no federal income tax benefit quite nicely."
Polly want a cracker?
They don't pay federal income tax because they don't make enough money.
They don't make enough money because our nation's policies have been focused on driving down ages and benefits while enriching the rich further.
Name one Republican policy to increase wages and benefits for working people. Can't be done.
These are racist statements. When you characterize one race of people as lazy and demanding someone else's money, that is racism, plain and simple.
Except nobody used the term "lazy" and nobody said demand other people's money
Even in the fake Santorum quote.
You are really, really, idiotic.
AJ:
I refer to people who work for wages, not live off of investments (or executive bonuses and inflated salaries).
So long. Lunch over.
They don't pay federal income tax because they don't make enough money.
How would you know?
How much is "enough" exactly?
A family of 4 earning $60,000 (Buffett's secretary's salary) pays no income taxes.
You need new talking points, idiot.
BTW, the reason I came to this sorry site to begin with.
Five Missouri Democrats Discover Crosshairs Outside Their Capitol Offices
Crosshairs meant to imply a threat of violence. Must be Palin fans.
Name one Republican policy to increase wages and benefits for working people
Hilarious.
•Real economic growth averaged 3.2 percent during the Reagan years versus 2.8 percent during the Ford-Carter years and 2.1 percent during the Bush-Clinton years.
•Real median family income grew by $4,000 during the Reagan period after experiencing no growth in the pre-Reagan years;
Oh, and 20 million jobs were created.
Thanks for particpating, troll.
Forgot to add:
after Reagan's economic policies took effect (1982-89), family incomes rose by 11 percent.
Really, Jay? Santorum didn't say "black people?"
What did he say then? Blah People? Blue People?
"It's real telling how worked up conservatives get if someone working person somewhere gets a decent pay check."
What a maroon.
AlphaLiberal said...
BTW, the reason I came to this sorry site to begin with.
So in other words, you tried to change the topic by linking to a left wing blog.
Nice.
Why doesn't Buffett pay himself a salary rather than simply accepting capital gains as his main source of income?
He feels what he is paying is insufficient and all --- in spite of all of his money already being taxed before.
And once more Alpha seeks to change the topic from an argument he can't win (people who are sure of themselves don't need to make up quotes) to one he lost a long time ago and claimed in another thread not to have made (i.e. his attempt to pin murders on Palin).
@alphaliberal
"Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him? "
Well, just not call him a nazi and imaging his death. finger wagging is fair game.
Personally, I like Mrs. Bosenek. She strikes me as the quintessential American ideal. She makes a tidy salary from the job she's been at for over 20 years. Her and her husband's second home is pretty unassuming and strikes me as something my parents would consider buying.
But then, I don't like that she's allowed herself to be used like a shameless slut in heat by the Democratic party, whoring herself out as a thoughtless prop. She is a national non sequitur; her marginal tax rate has NOTHING to say about rates for capital gains or the policy wisdom of incentivizing investment through preferential tax treatment. She's an argument to take the European approach of pushing everyone closer to the mean and then shifting the mean 20% lower than it presently stands. That is, make us all equally poorer.
They don't pay federal income tax because they don't make enough money.
That's not true, they have deductions, so they actually may make enough but take the deductions written or are very aggressive taking even more deductions.
Or some of them work in the restaurant industry and lie.
I have a friend who's a mortgage banker, he told us years ago whatever they told him the salary was, he doubled it.
So Buffett and Obama make the nice lady into a public figure. Then the nice lady, who is the personal secretary of one of the richest men in the world, moves to a publically available address in the kidnapping capital of America.
What could possibly go wrong.
"Joe the Plumber is hardly equivalent to a secretary. He gets out there and throws attacks frequently. This secretary is not doing that.
Can you wrap your head around those differences?"
Alpha, they were in his stuff within hours of his not bowing down and kissing Barry's ass. There's a difference alright but it isn't the one you think it is.
Two thoughts on Buffett and his secretary:
1) If she is really making 60k he is lying about her taxes.
2) If he really pays her 60k he is one cheap SOB.
"Jay said...
In 2009 the Obama's earned $6 million, and paid an average rate of 31%.
This woman is lying."
She's not a liar, others made up the allegation. Warren Buffett and Barack Obama are the liars, along with various flunkies.
Alpha, when Santorum is asked specifically about black people, is it "racist" to refer to black people?
Can we see pictures of your home, please?
"Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him? "
No, but I noticed that dissent became racist and upatriotic the second Bush left office.
So are leftists idiots or sociopaths? The eternal lying would bother most people.
Joe the Plumber is hardly equivalent to a secretary. He gets out there and throws attacks frequently. This secretary is not doing that.
Can you wrap your head around those differences?
Joe had actual crimes committed against him be elected officials.
Buffett's secretary has not.
Can you not wrap your head around those differences?
http://littlegreenfootballs.com
Aww, how cute. AL cites infamously bigoted sites to make his points. How droll.
Uh, no. I said that Joe is out there frequently making (bombastic and incendiary) political statements. He is a political actor.
The crimes committed against him by elected officials pre-dated that.
Hey, Jay, Obama is not the one getting worked up and wagging his finger in other peoples' faces. He kept his cool.
According to Jindal, Obama most assuredly did not keep his cool with him. I see no reason to believe he didn't cause the issue with Brewer.
...of course, his AG did arm the gangs that are causing violence on the border, so Obama is deeply vested there.
They got their tax cuts and their deregulation and what happened?
Didn't Obama brag that he passed FEWER regulations than Bush over his first three years in the SOTU?
The central point of the Buffett Rule is sound despite this childish carping. Rich people should pay their fair share of taxes.
Doesn't his firm owe BILLIONS in back taxes and are fighting it?
Tank believe in collective guilt
Republican racism is right out in the open for all to see. Like Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio's attacks on latinos.
AL wrote these two pieces in the SAME post. Does he notice the irony?
It's real telling how worked up conservatives get if someone working person somewhere gets a decent pay check. They are very offended by this and demand working people's pay be cut, benefits be cut, standard of living be cut.
Can you point to this actually ever being said?
Rick Santorum:
"I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them somebody else's money, I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn the money."
Debunked. Repeatedly. Video hurts you here.
Crosshairs meant to imply a threat of violence.
...Unless Dems do it. Then it's cool. Rube.
Alpha Liberal, you are the biggest racist on this site. You don't think for a minute that blacks can take care of themselves without massive amounts of "help" from you and your ilk. You know who does think blacks would be better off, infinitely so, freed of the shackles of your "help"? Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams. And they have written so dozens of times. But they're just a couple of Uncle Toms, right Alpha Liberal? You scum.
"AlphaLiberal said..."They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine. That includes secretaries, children, you name it."
Your sexism is showing.
Women are fully responsible adults. They are not like children or whatever else you're encouraging us to name... kittens and puppies?
FTR, AlphaLibeler was the first to try and derail this otherwise productive thread. He did this at 12:45 when he tried to switch the topic to Jan Brewer.
Marshall,
She spoke to ABC News and gave the effective rate figure.
Alpha, is Joe Biden a racist too? I'm sure you wouldn't vote for a racist, right?
Oh yeah, it's ok if Democrats make jokes about Indian call centers and 7-11's.
"kittens and puppies?"
So conservatives hate kittens and puppies too?
Next thing you know they'll call Obama ~ Satan, the anti-christ, the devil incarnate, a Communist, Socialist, marxist, Islamo-Fascist, wealth-distributor, personal friend of Saul Alinsky :D, who wakes up every morning hating America and Americans.
Oh wait!
When is the never ending Rep whining gonna stop? Rhetorical.
The inclusion of payroll taxes in her rate is honest, in its way, but speaks to a huge dishonesty in the political system.
Social Security, in its current form, is defended by the left, as a retirement program. In this form, the money Warren Buffet's secretary pays is a contribution to her own retirement.
Class warfare, in its current fulmination, treats Social Security payments as a tax. In this form, Warren Buffet's secretary is punished by FICA.
I think the latter is closer to the truth. But if the latter is the truth, why do liberals defend the structure of the former?
Jay said...
Marshall,
She spoke to ABC News and gave the effective rate figure.
Jay,
You believe she rather than Obama and his advisors developed this talking point and included in the SOTU?
"Oh, now, now. I clicked through to the pictures of the house, pool, and putting green and it's not really that nice."
Owie!
So now we need the great O to tell us how raising taxes on the wealthiest Americans will solve our problems.
That is why he is so obsessed with this, right? I'm waiting for the plan.
Maybe some of our brilliant and generous liberal commenters could enlighten us too.
Take all the pixels you need.
Very strange that Buffett, noting how woefully undertaxed he has been, has never cut a check to the IRS for, say, $500M to make up for it.
Very strange how this very rich man pays his secretary so comparatively little. Talk about overpaid CEOs.
Very strange that Buffett makes even more money because his friend Obama nixed the Keystone deal.
I call bullshit.
How much does Buffett pay in capital gains again?
AlphaLiberal said...
They will attack anyone involved in opposition to the Republican machine. That includes secretaries, children, you name it.
You mean like the Bush daughters, Santorum's wife, etc., etc., etc.?
She works for one of the richest men in the world. Of course she makes a good buck.
Especially since Buffett made out like a little bandit when GodZero vetoed the Keystone pipeline.
Funny how that worked out.
Speaking of Arizona, I am surprised Ann has not jumped on board with the other right wingers praising GED holder Jan Brewer's finger-waving confrontation with the President.
She's putting that uppity black man in his place, I guess.
Oh, yeah, he's "thin-skinned."
Hate to remind Alpha, but Zero was the one who buttonholed her.
Just like he did with Jindal.
And even the syncophantic press is beginning to notice that thin skin everybody else has seen.
Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?
No, and Alpha doesn't, either, but say anything bad about Zero and you're a raaaacisst.
PS Shift change at Troll Central. Alpha's on, shiloh's off (make up your own...).
edutcher's real and imaginary trolls are everywhere ~ be afraid, be very afraid!
ok, we've gone beyond Althouse conservative fear to outright childish paranoia.
"And even the syncophantic press is beginning to notice that thin skin everybody else has seen."
This.
Would a secure man ever whine to the press about comments regarding his ears?
No, he wouldn't. The secure man would not give it the time of day.
I guess its okay for Teh Won to sue a state. And its okay for he and his sycophants to get up in everyone's face over whatever they want, but turnabout is not 'fair' or worse, 'raaaacist'.
Dish it and take it as well.
Marshal said...
Jay,
You believe she rather than Obama and his advisors developed this talking point and included in the SOTU?
Oh no, not at all.
When I said she was "lying" I meant in announcing her effective tax rate of 35.6%. I gathered from ABC she said that, which I belief to be knowningly false.
But yes, Obama and Warren came up with all this BS prior to her going on TV.
Very strange how this very rich man pays his secretary so comparatively little. Talk about overpaid CEOs.
Note he also won't release his tax returns.
We have no idea if he's paying 15% or 35%.
How convenient.
She's married. What about her husband's income? Did they file separately?
The scandal here is not the tax rates under discussion, nor the questions as to what each side means by tax rates (marginal versus effective) but rather the fact that Buffett is such an unbelievable cheapskate. He apparently pays his AA $60,000 per year. Pathetic.
"This makes my point more strongly. By living in Nebraska and buying a second home in Arizona in a down market the total value of the two houses is about $361K.
On the coasts, that buys you a two-bedroom condo in a bad neighborhood.
The Bosaneks aren't living large. They're living inland."
Not poor, certainly. And if she's making over 200K *herself* they're living quite modestly for the income.
But, yes, on the coasts those houses would be 500K, half a million dollars. Just over 100K is not excessive for a house. The price is probably lower because house prices are depressed but it's Arizona... the pool isn't that unusual *nor* reserved for the extremely wealthy.
She is living the American dream.
Jay, his firm doesn't pay its taxes. Im not assuming he does.
"Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?"
Hyperbole doesn't help your cause.
The left was vile toward Bush at every opportunity. Being less vile isn't genuflecting any more than failing to engage in full blown Bush Derangement Syndrome and opposing every single thing he did down to the air he breathed was mindless following.
(Lately people have claimed that Bush, who several times warned that something ought to be done about Fanny or Freddy should have done more. They conveniently forget that the hatred and opposition toward Bush was so mindless and automatic that he could guarantee something would never happen by saying too loudly that he thought it should. This is why his Aids assistance to Africa was darn near Black Ops, because even THAT would have been opposed.)
And yes, people did say that the left ought not criticize... and by "criticize" I mean "government authorities shouldn't purposefully undermine foreign policy by going overseas and making statements contrary to policy (hello Pelosi) or work to make sure that the people we're fighting know they've got allies trying to bring Bush down from the inside, so hold on and kill more people, because it's gonna work for you... and THEN claiming that their actions have no effect whatsoever but is merely patriotic dissent.
Honestly... conservatives aren't doing that to Obama.
Surprise!
I wonder if she calls Buffett "Mr. B"?
But, yes, on the coasts those houses would be 500K, half a million dollars.
A house like that Mid-Wilshire is over a mil. Easy.
WV: bario. Ha ha. Barrio.
Or some of them work in the restaurant industry and lie.
One of the few times I have actually challenged my husband's dad was when he claimed that he treated waiters very well because he tips them in cash.
I asked him why that was so important. He said because that way, the waiter wouldn't have to declare the tips on his taxes.
He is a huge lefty, by the way. I don't know if there is connection between thinking cheating on taxes is OK and political affiliation, but I am conservative and don't cheat on my taxes.
"...Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?"
All I remember from those BDS fevered days is the left told me that 'dissent was the highest form of patriotism'. Remember?
"... Oh, now, now. I clicked through to the pictures of the house, pool, and putting green and it's not really that nice..."
Really? Looks pretty nice to me. What % of Americans have a second home?
Whoa! I swear, that house looks exactly like my uncle's place. I mean, frighteningly close.
Then again, that's what got built in Arizona during the housing boom, so there are probably several hundred houses that look exactly like that. Hell, I think I counted 6 in his neighborhood alone. :D
Jay said...
"When I said she was "lying" I meant in announcing her effective tax rate of 35.6%. I gathered from ABC she said that, which I belief to be knowningly false."
You think a secretary, even to Warren Buffet, understands to add the employer half of FICA to her rate and use marginal instead of effective rates? No, they calculated it and told her what the number is. She's a pawn whose mistake was trusting her boss and Obama.
Rule number one in life is that the left lies all the time. She probably believed people who recognize this are hard-right haters and the leftists she trusts are honest people trying to do their best. She learned the hard way those facts are reversed. And those she trusted repaid her by making her into the idiot of the week.
"Donna B. said...
She's married. What about her husband's income? Did they file separately?"
The rate quoted was not the actual rate paid. They took her income and made assumptions about what taxes might have been due in a certain set of circumstance not her own, and of course those assumptions were carefully selected to ensure the highest rate possible. So they included the employer half of FICA and used marginal rates (which are much higher) even though on Buffet's calculation they did not include the imputed corporate taxes (analagous to the employer FICA) and used his average rate not his marginal.
In other words the entire comparison is a lie.
Looks pretty nice to me Ann. I'll take it.
damikesc said...
Jay, his firm doesn't pay its taxes. Im not assuming he does.
Heh.
Well, he took the pathetic weasel way out saying he won't release his returns unless Rupert Murdoch does.
Apparently she makes $60K. Maybe Warren should worry less about redistributing the taxpayers money, and redistribute his own riches to his employees. That's the lowest wage I've heard for an executive assistant.
P.S. The claim is that she pays a 35.8% tax rate, which is higher than the top bracket. Yet another phony number coming out of this administration and their allies.
She's putting that uppity black man in his place, I guess.
Ha! You've got it wrong Al. That black man was trying to put that uppity white woman in her place and she defended herself.
Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?
You mean back in the days when it was "patriotic" to question the president's policies, whereas now you're just a racist if you do that?
"Really? Looks pretty nice to me. What % of Americans have a second home?"
My grandma did the snow-bird thing. She certainly didn't have 2000+ square feet in each place, but she had two places.
I'd think this is either an investment (and why not, if you can swing it) or a planned retirement property bought when prices are low.
And you've had your way for decades and the thinning middle class is pretty pissed about it.
That "thinning middle class" is thinning because those previously middle classers are now upper classers. You can see it clearly in the Statistical Abstract of the United States in Table 696.
Dear America, should you make a mistake when you are 16 or 17 years old and not graduate high school and later get a GED, please know your place and not run for office, or succeed at anything. Let the government take care of you. And never, ever become a Governor of one of the states, but if you do, never, ever disagree with The President of The United States, or any other of your betters. (this rule is waved if the president is republican.)
Love, AlphaLiberal.
ps, know your place, get back to the kitchen.
Jeff, that's pure gold! Ha!
$144,000 in Surprise isn't very impressive. She could have a pretty low salary ($50,000 and below) to qualify.
PS my wife is a realtor
Remember when Bush was in office and the right wing was demanding that everybody genuflect before The President and surrender our right to criticize him?
Huh!?
Arizona is one of our craziest states! Hope to the racist Joe Arpaio, who should be in jail for using his office for political vendettas and for busting on Latinos for being Latinos.
AL, you know nothing of AZ. Other than the opportune coincidence of SB 1070 and the gubenotorial election, Ms. Brewer would have little to no connection to the vocal border security crowd.
Keep in mind that AZ has been subject to quit a bit of federal "interference":
-can't prosecute employers for not checking on immigration status of employees
-fighting border violence with ATF-armed mexican drug smugglers
-exhortations to tone down the violent rhetoric that "lead to " Gabby Giffords shooting (in the absence of any supportive evidence)
PS Gov. Brewer tried to modify SB 1070 after its first partial loss in the courts.
Did I mention that we haven't had any cases of "racial profiling" since passage of SB 1070
Oh and forgot to mention, after the second worse housing/construction crash in the country, AZ under Brewer's leadership halved it budget deficit in one year.
Homework for AL
AlphaLiberal fraudulently claims: "t's real telling how worked up conservatives get if someone working person somewhere gets a decent pay check. They are very offended by this and demand working people's pay be cut, benefits be cut, standard of living be cut. "
No one has demanded anyone's pay be cut, no one has demanded anyone's benefits be cut or standard of living in this discussion. This is the usual utter fraud you truck in.
The White House has engaged in repeating the claims of Buffet regarding his tax rate and his secrretary's. They put her in the audience of the SOTU speech. The White House put her salary in play, not "conservatives".
And what we learn is that the claims about her tax rates are as fraudulent as your usual comments, AlphaLiberal. The calculations of her effective tax rate are simply false.
The whole thing is even more hypocritical than usual for Democrats because the difference in tax rate come solely from the fact that Buffett gets his income largely from capital gains - and the Democrats and Obama have not attempted to raise capital gains tax rates. Not least because of their intention to protect their cronies on Wall Street.
"She's putting that uppity black man in his place, I guess."
AL, are you really such a loathsome, smarmy jacka** in real life? My lord you are an insufferable, pompous toad.
Seriously, Alpha. You're a loser. A pathetic, smug, imbecilic, halfwit. You never have a damn thing of any substance to say here. You really are a small, insignificant sniveling excuse for a man (if that is indeed your sex.) You spew your idiotic, obnoxious opinions with the eloquence of a snotty fourth grader. I'm glad there are people that exist here who can actually tolerate entertaining a cretinous twit like you on a regular basis. I can only imagine what a lame, shallow, meaningless existence you must lead when you leave the keyboard and other humans are forced to suffer your presence. God help anyone who has to deal with you in real life. Twit.
Hipster, you remind me ofJohn Fleece in this skit
nothing like a good rant
Alpha: Crosshairs meant to imply a threat of violence. Must be Palin fans.
Not if you follow the pattern - Dems in distress vandalize their own cars with racial/sexist/homophobic insults, hang nooses over their own front door, plant crosshairs over their office. Then they play the victim.
So, less likely its Palin fans; more likely its Dems trying to raise their polling.
Haha Thanks Phil. I wish I could deliver it with the eloquence of John Cleese but I will have to settle for base, cutting, well-deserved insult and contempt. I like Ann's blog and I seldom comment, because I enjoy reading the opinions of most of the regulars here who are genuinely smart and witty.
AL is a weasel of the lowest order. Every time I read an AL screed, the verbal equivalent of a toddler flicking boogers, I have to try so hard to hold back from unleashing a torrent of vitriol against that loathsome snot. Yes AL, I'm talking about you, you miserable little chode. You are a truly insufferable, miserable little pimple of a man.
Intellectually vapid, aggressively obnoxious, sanctimonious, clueless, projecting, holier than thou, misdirecting, strawman slaying, and just plain and simply an intolerant d**k. Congratulations AL, you really embody some truly admirable character traits.
Every blog has its own barking dog liberal troll like AL. Over at Shot in the Dark, angryclown assumes the mantle of reciting the part line and various chanting points. I love how AL parrots the lie that the wealthy do not pay their "fair share" when all the evidence points to the opposite. According to the rightwingnuts at the Congressional Budget Office, in 2007 the top 1% of households paid 28% of all federal taxes;the top 10% paid 55% of all federal taxes;the bottom 20% paid 5.2%. Are you getting the picture, AL? Or do you need someone to read this to you?
Given the collapse of the housing market in AZ just about anybody can pick up a second home or condo there at dirt cheap prices, hold it for a while and then flip it.
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