December 19, 2011
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83 comments:
Boo-yah!!
Depressing. That is no way to get your populace armed. That works out to only about 10% a year.
That's about the average. Most people don't want to carry but they don't want some Tweedly from the government telling them they can't either. In Florida I think it was .97%. And the rate of violent crime went down almost 7%.
So we can expect shootouts in public any day now? Swell.
I wonder what the final percentage of licensed adults will be. There was a post linked to by Instapundit a loong time ago listing the shall issue states by percentage of licensed adults. Ah, here it is. From 2000 census data North Carolina is at 1%, Maine is at 2.41%.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
1% you say, I guess not satisfied with all the money now the 1% want all the guns, too! We demand that Occupy(City) be given firearms! Remember, “You have more, we need more.”
Professor, it might be fun for you to record some of the 'we'll now have regular wild west shoot-outs in Madison' editorials that I'm sure liberal bloggers and journOlists are predicting.
You can then go ahead and write your December 19, 2012 blog post in which you point out that there have been no 'shoot outs' and that crime has slightly declined since Wisconsin started issuing carry permits.
That is a good start. Hopefully the pace will pick up a bit.
@Curious George - you may want to change your name to Clueless George based on your comment at 10:07.
That is a good start. Hopefully the pace will pick up a bit.
The pace will probably fall off once the eager beavers have been satisfied.
The more guns that are carried the safer we become from gun violence.
They weren't called Peacemakers for no reason.
When a few more of them have those stupid horns blown in their faces and someone tries to take their camera away, the numbers will go up.
"al said...
@Curious George - you may want to change your name to Clueless George based on your comment at 10:07."
Al, you need a tune up on the ole sarcasm-o-meter.
As long as it is the right 1%, no problem. It's like voter turnout. It may be 34%, but is it the right 34%?
Good to see the lefties reflexively attacking civil liberties. They always show their inner contempt for ordinary citizens claiming their Constitutional rights. All the while claiming that picking fights with the police and destroying public and private property is "freedom of expression".
"I'll take 'Pent-up Demand' for $500, Alex."
Bruce, you should cheer up: if WI gets to 10% in a year, it will have moved into first place in terms of percentage of population. Washington is pretty high on the list, and our figure is only around 5%.
@Curious George - you may want to change your name to Clueless George based on your comment at 10:07.
You must be new around here. Welcome! Also: sarcasm.
Got my conceal carry license for Ohio a few weeks ago. Haven't actually carried, although I keep it in the trunk of my car when I leave home.
I mostly wanted it so I could carry it when I take walks and bicycle in the rural area where i live. I don't feel like sacrificing myself to a predator or a meph head.
Curious George said...
So we can expect shootouts in public aby day now? Swell.
When the first shootout between two Wisconsin concealed carry holders occurs, you just log on to Althouse and tell us "I told you so" If the CC experience in other states is any indication, you'll be waiting a long, long, long time.
Al, you need a tune up on the ole sarcasm-o-meter.
Given the wide variety of people Althouse attracts I try not to assume anyone's meaning of their written words other than what they wrote. If sarcasm was intended then something like at the end might have conveyed that.
Got my conceal carry license for Ohio a few weeks ago. Haven't actually carried, although I keep it in the trunk of my car when I leave home.
I got mine last year and did the same thing. I felt like I had to really know my stuff before I started carrying every day, plus there were practical matters.
At an absolute minimum, a person that carries every day must have 1) a vault at home, 2) a car minivault that's corded to the frame (usually under the driver seat) and a good CCW holster.
The minivault is because you ARE going to end up going into facilities or areas that are off limits to CCW and you'll have to leave it in the car, but it MUST be secure.
After wearing pretty much daily for the last year or so, you would be surprised how quickly you get used to the feel of the holster and the weight. You will also be surprised at how much more aware of your surroundings you become.
"1% of the population of Wisconsin applies for a concealed carry permit."
We. ARE. the wuh... uh... uhn percent!
So only 1% of Wisconsinites are taking advantage of the small penis enhancement permit? Sounds about right.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Scott is just terrified that he’ll stumble into a zombie and become lunch…..
You small-p3nissed Cons make me laugh with your running about knees bent, f3llating of the almighty pistole…
The anti-2nd amendment rights crowd said the same thing in Minnesota. That now there will be shootouts at the state fair and Twins/Vikings games (insert Vikings jokes here). Of course over the.....7 or so years they have had CC, there have been no incidents.
But conservatives there like to point out that in the 7 years light rail has been running, it has killed 5 people.
Glenn, did the rate of violent crime in Florida actually drop that much? That'd be great if it happened in Wisconsin, but the skeptic in me doubts that. An increase in accidental shootings; however, would not shock me.
"The more guns that are carried the safer we become from gun violence."
Actually quite the opposite. Don't forget to count accidental gun violence...
Ellan, most CC holders I know very rarely carry their weapons with them.
And if they do, it is highly, no extremely unlikely they would put out their gun and accidently shoot someone.
A mapping of geographic distribution would be fun to see
machine, CC holders are no more likely to cause in an increase in accidental shootings than having minorities move into your neighborhood would cause an increase in crime.
Scott is just terrified that he’ll stumble into a zombie and become lunch…..
The fact that you continue to mock the inevitable threat won't make it go away. And since they haven't invented the HERC yet (nor would it be very concealable)...
Interesting. I looked at Arkansas and we are at 2% for CC, but something like 59% of households own guns. I think it's because you have to pass a test and pay a fair bit of money.
Actually quite the opposite. Don't forget to count accidental gun violence...
It would be interesting to see the source of that implied claim, if it is one. The alternative is that it is the result of too much imagination.
Don't forget to count accidental gun violence...
Just like all of the accidental stabbings that occur because some people carry a pocket knife.
accidental gun violence
???? Is there such a thing?
So only 1% of Wisconsinites are taking advantage of the small penis enhancement permit?
Straw man (again) from Gargage, the master of fallacy. Or, is the small penis thing projection. Or, is he wishing his penis was as big as their small penis?
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
The fact that you continue to mock the inevitable threat won't make it go away. And since they haven't invented the HERC yet (nor would it be very concealable
*LOL*
Really Garage went the small p3nis route, really Garage, that was very, very cliché……
In fact, it was a very, very small cliché…
A lot of states did this long ago, so if there were negative "side effects," such as accidental shootings, it'd be well-known and documented.
All that is known is that when a state first enacts concealed carry, there's a drastic increase in bed-wetting for city people who don't understand how guns work.
Straw man (again) from Gargage, the master of fallacy. Or, is the small penis thing projection. Or, is he wishing his penis was as big as their small penis?
He's wishing he had one. Perhaps for Christmas (or Solstice).
Meade has a sense of humor that compliments the blog quite well.
You and AA run a decent house here. I can't think of another place that has quite a mix of opinions, but very little nasty flamming. Or in the case of Titus, flamers.
They are the 1%!
And they have decided to pack.
Not entirely unexpected.
Can you give a CC permit as a Giftmas present?
Can you give a CC permit as a Giftmas present?
Yes. You can give either a check to cover it all, or you can go to an indoor range nearby and get a gift certificate for the training, holster, firearm (if necessary), and then give cash for the county/state processing as normal. You could even give cash for the gas money involved in going to the DMV or sheriff's office.
Show me in the 2nd amendment where it says, "with a permit".
That's what I thought.
As for "concealed carry", worst idea ever. If you're gonna carry, carry open. I've done it for decades in situations where it was warranted, and never been fucked with once.
To quote my favorite gunblogger's post today: Gun sales spiked again in 2011. The FBI released it’s preliminary crime reports and crime is down overall, even violent crime. Yeah, correlation and all, I know. But the anti-gunners would have us believe that guns cause crime so more guns would mean more crime, right?
machine said...
Actually quite the opposite. Don't forget to count accidental gun violence...
Where would the statistics be supporting your premise?
Yes. You can give either a check to cover it all, or you can go to an indoor range nearby and get a gift certificate for the training, holster, firearm (if necessary), and then give cash for the county/state processing as normal.
That's not the same thing as giving the certificate however.
Here's a little experiment. Let everyone mocking that guns make you safer publish their addresses.
I myself will not publish my address because I know criminals, and the government, covet my guns.
As for the penis jokes... really? That's the best you got? Don't ever get in a dis, you're unarmed.
@Chuck66,
Thanks.
Let's be clear: I am not anti-gun. My family has been full of hunters for generations...I believe the 2nd Amendment provides citizens the right to use firearms to protect themselves too. If the government were to actually attempt to remove all guns from the citizens, I would be part of the militia fighting against it.
But you cannot make me believe that a family home is safer because someone has a weapon and a permit to use it...accidental injuries (kids finding their dad's handgun), suicides and family homicides cause more harm than shootings to protect property and life.
You all know it's true...find your own statistics...
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
But you cannot make me believe that a family home is safer because someone has a weapon and a permit to use it...accidental injuries (kids finding their dad's handgun), suicides and family homicides cause more harm than shootings to protect property and life.
You all know it's true...find your own statistics
OK, firearms are used 2.5 MILLION TIMES per year to thwart crime…..the “stat” on “kids”, BTW, includes “children” up to 18, the majority of whom died in GANG VIOLENCE.
You all know it's true...find your own statistics...
Accidents can and will happen. There are LOADS of things that can be done to mitigate this and, as a gunowner and CCW user, I take zero responsibility for some idiot that leaves his loaded weapon laying around.
If you don't raise your children with a healthy respect for firearms, they too easily (given the rest of our culture) become strange objects to either be feared or worshiped, even if that worship is only Xbox games and money at the box office.
It's very difficult to raise your children to a healthy respect for firearms if you have no firearms. Having firearms necessitates having them in the house. Most adults can handle this reality and did so long before the left went apoplectic re gun control. Prior to 1963, my high school in Chicago had a rifle club, for crying out loud. The real kind, not the wussy band/flag kind.
You all know it's true...find your own statistics...
Debate fail.
machine said...
You all know it's true...find your own statistics...
Now that is classic!
machine said...
But you cannot make me believe that a family home is safer because someone has a weapon and a permit to use it...
Very revealing.
We can't make you. And neither could facts as you accept something as an article of faith.
"machine said...
Let's be clear: I am not anti-gun. My family has been full of hunters for generations...I believe the 2nd Amendment provides citizens the right to use firearms to protect themselves too. If the government were to actually attempt to remove all guns from the citizens, I would be part of the militia fighting against it.
But you cannot make me believe that a family home is safer because someone has a weapon and a permit to use it...accidental injuries (kids finding their dad's handgun), suicides and family homicides cause more harm than shootings to protect property and life.
You all know it's true...find your own statistics..."
To you and others making this claim...you don't need a CCW have a gunin your home. I would bet that a majority of CCW permits were granted to those that already do.
CCW doesn't make you safer at home...it makes you safer out of your home.
"garage mahal said...
So only 1% of Wisconsinites are taking advantage of the small penis enhancement permit? Sounds about right."
Garage, when people refer to you as "big cock" it doesn't mean what you think it does.
...accidental injuries (kids finding their dad's handgun), suicides and family homicides...
It's all true, my dad was a cop when I was growing up and I was killed in a firearms accident. My older brother (who was also killed) lost all three of his sons to a sentient, evil, fully-automatic assault rifle he carried as a SWAT cop.
But you cannot make me believe that a family home is safer because someone has a weapon and a permit to use it...accidental injuries (kids finding their dad's handgun), suicides and family homicides cause more harm than shootings to protect property and life.
A couple of other people have already jumped on you for this.
I'll just note one thing.
A family that has a gunowner as a member is in exactly the same position as a family that has a gunowner and a concealed-carry permit.
Why?
Because a gun in the house is a gun in the house. Permits don't alter the likelihood of accidental misuse.
Find your own statistics...
I'm a stats-geek, so I've researched this kind of thing already. Slightly more than 2000 Americans under the age of 18 died from gunfire in the year 2007. About 120 Americans under the age of 18 died in accidental gunfire in 2007.
Total number of deaths by gunfire in the U.S. was approximately 31200 for the same year, of which ~17300 were suicides, ~12900 are homicide, and ~700 are accidental.
If you want to know how I found those numbers, look for WISQARS at the CDDC.
Perhaps you should compare 2007 to previous years, and learn what the trend is for accidental firearm deaths over time. Or when the 2008 numbers become available, you can compare those.
accidental injuries (kids finding their dad's handgun),
More kids 14 and under are killed in bicylce accidents than by guns, but even more by cars. You're more likely to die being a pedestrian, riding a motorcycle, riding in a car, from fire, or drown than die from an accidental gun shot. Being assaulted with a firearm ranks higher. But, you can protect yourself from that if... (Plus, abut half those are deaths we're not allowed to talk about becase of political correctnes.)
At an absolute minimum, a person that carries every day must … a car minivault that's corded to the frame (usually under the driver seat) and a good CCW holster. The minivault is because you ARE going to end up going into facilities or areas that are off limits to CCW and you'll have to leave it in the car, but it MUST be secure.
Logic fail. The criminal that breaks into or steals my vehicle is going to be kept from access to my gun because the gun is contained in a mini-vault under the seat.
If children are present in the home a gun vault is a good safety measure for the storing of guns in the home but is useless in the context of keeping guns out of the hands of car thieves.
Mine goes from my holster into the glove compartment on those rare occasions when I must enter someplace where the gun is not legally allowed.
Logic fail. The criminal that breaks into or steals my vehicle is going to be kept from access to my gun because the gun is contained in a mini-vault under the seat.
Knowledge fail. A minivault just big enough for a pistol and a mag or two, secured by an armored cable (that it comes with) to the frame will deter a smash-and-grab thief. Your glove compartment will not and off goes your weapon. If they steal the whole car, there's nothing either of us can do about it.
A minivault just big enough for a pistol and a mag or two, secured by an armored cable (that it comes with) to the frame will deter a smash-and-grab thief.
Conceded: A mini-vault secured by a cable as described above would deter most smash and grab car burglars. Of course if the vehicle is stolen it provides nothing. What bothers me is the implication that the car owner is responsible for what a thief will steal from a locked vehicle when the gun is out of sight.
A few gun-related links:
http://tinyurl.com/3svxsns
http://tinyurl.com/3uwk9hk
http://tinyurl.com/3bwytxr
http://tinyurl.com/c7fc2j5
George: Al, you need a tune up on the ole sarcasm-o-meter.
Maybe you need to tune up the old "writing sarcasm machine". It ain't working for you.
Sarcasm occurs when the writer writes something different from the audience's understanding of the writers position. Based on your previous posts, many would actually believe your comment was sincere and heartfelt. Well, as sincere and heartfelt as a person of your ilk is capable of.
garage mahal said...
So only 1% of Wisconsinites are taking advantage of the small penis enhancement permit? Sounds about right.
This is not sarcasm. This is just name calling. Keep trying, you'll get it some day. (That last sentence? That was sarcasm.)
" . . . 1% of the population of Wisconsin applies for a concealed carry permit . . .
in less than 6 weeks."
Ha! Told ya them Wiscannsie boys is dumb! Here in Minnesota, most of us can fill out that application page in, like, three weeks! Or sometimes four . . . But faster'n six!
Losers!
Actually quite the opposite. Don't forget to count accidental gun violence...
Nope. Check your sources. More guns == less crime.
If the government were to actually attempt to remove all guns from the citizens, I would be part of the militia fighting against it.
Sure you would. Uh-huh.
NC's Carry license is a joke and not worth having. Democrat legislature cat fished it. Driving with a conceal? .03 for you. Carry in a bar, felony, no permit, mis. Get the idea.
Item in favor of registering: apparently only takes my DD214.
Item opposed: putting my name on the First Houses Subject to SWAT Raid list.
The wait isn't terribly bad, all things considered. When I submitted my CHL application here in Gun Central, Texas, it took something like eight weeks to arrive. Of course, there was likely a backlog that doesn't exist (yet) in Wisconsin, but that could change.
Milwaukee said...
Maybe you need to tune up the old "writing sarcasm machine". It ain't working for you.
Sarcasm occurs when the writer writes something different from the audience's understanding of the writers position. Based on your previous posts, many would actually believe your comment was sincere and heartfelt. Well, as sincere and heartfelt as a person of your ilk is capable of."
I have no idea what "previous posts" you are referring to. Maybe you can enlighten me.
By the way, sarcasm does not require irony.
The key to knowing it was sarcasm is the fact that it was not in the form of a statement, but a question:
"So we can expect shootouts in public any day now? Swell."
I also used exaggerations "shootouts" and "any day now".. I mean even the most rapid anti-gun zealot would probably not proclaim that CCW would instantly lead to "shootouts" (as in more than one.) But if they did, it owuldn't be in question form.
Add the use of "swell" and there you go.
But I apologize MadisonMan, some, like you and your ilk, aren't smart enough to understand the nuance. Which makes me wonder why Althouse made you her Blog Cop.
(The last sentence was sarcasm)
The State of Washington--at 345,786 licensees and a population 6,664,200--is at 5.19%.
"So we can expect shootouts in public any day now? Swell."
George, do you wear a seatbelt because you are planning to get into an accident? Or because when an accident is about to happen, there's no time to buckle up?
Now you know why people carry concealed.
Free at last, free at last. Thank God Almighty, we are free at last.
Ellen,
"An increase in accidental shootings; however, would not shock me"
It would certainly shock me, since this hasn't happened anywhere else carry restrictions have been eased.
On the other hand, this is Wisconsin we're talking about, so you may have a point.
A quibble on the 1% number. Wisconsin may have 5,686,986 total people, but you have to be 21 to get a concealed handgun permit. If you break down the numbers by age, you get about 4,107,480 cheeseheads 21 years of age or over. 56,000 is approximately 1.36% of that number.
North Carolina's numbers are 228,072, or approximately 3.33% of eligible residents. NC does not issue non-resident permits. And despite what Eric says, they are useful. He just needs to man up and help get HB111 (Restaurant Carry) out of committee and onto the Senate floor.
" . . . this is Wisconsin we're talking about, so you may have a point."
Wisconsin has the most bars per capita of all of the states in the U.S.A.
When speaking in any manner of the Wisconsin character, this fact must be considered and accounted for.
@karrde said...
Since you are a stats geek, why not inform us how many of the under 18 were gang members?
Also inform us by the categories that you used the comparable ones for car and other motor vehicle related deaths, bicycles, sports
drownings and weather related deaths.
But I apologize MadisonMan, some, like you and your ilk, aren't smart enough to understand the nuance. Which makes me wonder why Althouse made you her Blog Cop.
What the hell are you talking about? (Althouse, where is my paycheck?)
MadMan, get your tired legs over here and start helping with some of the heavy lifting of this delete button, and I'm sure there will be a little something in it for.
"People are working weekends. People are working long hours," DOJ spokeswoman Dana Brueck said.
Oh, the humanity!
My nephew works for a fairly large gun distributor. He told me his office has a picture of Prez Obama on the wall and it is captioned "Salesman of the Year".
@cubanbob, the CDC doesn't give data for whether or not deaths were deemed to be 'gang-related' by police.
I don't recall providing data for pools, but pools fit into the category Drowning as defined by the CDC.
Most of the deaths in Transportation-Related are also found in sub-group Transportation-Related: Automobile.
I noted the difference between accidental deaths by firearm and intentional deaths by firearm to underline one very important thing: accidental death by firearm is rare.
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