Althouse: "What If Male Superheroes Posed Like Wonder Woman On The David Finch Justice League Cover?"

August 11, 2011

"What If Male Superheroes Posed Like Wonder Woman On The David Finch Justice League Cover?"

Contrapposto.

60 comments:

Fred4Pres said...: They get invited to Bert and Ernie's wedding?; 8/11/11, 9:15 AM
TWM said...: I haven't seen the cover but I assume Wonder Woman led with her breasts instead of her fists like the guys. Not at all unreasonable in my opinion, considering how much power they hold.; 8/11/11, 9:15 AM
Scott M said...: Just chant "target demo" over and over and you'll get why they don't pose like that.; 8/11/11, 9:17 AM
chickelit said...: Suppose we just plucked male peacocks and surgically implanted their feathers onto female peacocks?

Would that finally make some people happy?; 8/11/11, 9:18 AM
Scott M said...: I haven't paid any attention to DC since I was a 12-year-old. Can anyone tell me when WW was gifted with the ability of flight? My kids watch the Justice League stuff now and she's zipping around like Superman.; 8/11/11, 9:20 AM
Fen said...: but I assume Wonder Woman led with her breasts instead of her fists like the guys

In the early years, Wonder Woman's Superpower was "Submissive Enticement". The bad guys were so distracted with tying her up in bondage positions that crime dropped dramatically.

You've come a long way, baby!; 8/11/11, 9:21 AM
Michael E. Lopez said...: It really comes down to lasso placement, doesn't it?

Because the standing is just sort of generally feminine. I looked at those guys and thought to myself, "They're standing like women."

Women *do* stand and sit and move differently than men, in general. There are, obviously, exceptions, and WW is clearly caricatured in the way a runway model often is.

But it's really about the lasso. I find it quite off-putting, the lasso between the legs. There's absolutely no reason for her to hold that like that, and it would get in the way. No way a trained warrior like WW does such a thing.; 8/11/11, 9:23 AM
Shanna said...: Can anyone tell me when WW was gifted with the ability of flight?

All I know is that she had an invisible plane in the tv show.; 8/11/11, 9:26 AM
Tim said...: This is why no normal person takes "feminism" seriously.; 8/11/11, 9:26 AM
Moose said...: If they did they'd start selling well in the gay community. New market niche...; 8/11/11, 9:27 AM
Fen said...: but I assume Wonder Woman led with her breasts instead of her fists

Ah, we've sluethed out her secret identity: its Jessica Valenti!; 8/11/11, 9:30 AM
TWM said...: "In the early years, Wonder Woman's Superpower was "Submissive Enticement". The bad guys were so distracted with tying her up in bondage positions that crime dropped dramatically."

Send her ass, and her breasts, oh and the rope, to England, for they need her badly right now!; 8/11/11, 9:32 AM
TWM said...: "Ah, we've sluethed out her secret identity: its Jessica Valenti!"

Brilliant!!; 8/11/11, 9:34 AM
KCFleming said...: "What If Male Superheroes Posed Like Wonder Woman On The David Finch Justice League Cover?"

More simply:
"What If males posed like females?"

At its core, a stupid question.; 8/11/11, 9:34 AM
HKatz said...: Instead of getting caught up in fictional comic book heroes, why not look at a real wonder woman, who passed away this week at age 98:

Nancy Wake: Nazi killer, Special Operations Executive agent, and servicewoman in WWII; 8/11/11, 9:35 AM
Nonapod said...: Regarding the whole flight thing, I believe sometime during the late 1960s (silver age) the comic book writers gave her a bunch of new abilities like flight.; 8/11/11, 9:35 AM
madAsHell said...: What if.....green monkeys flew out of my ass.

Yeah, I know, nobody cares.

What's with all of the conflicted gender posts?; 8/11/11, 9:38 AM
brian said...: She looks cross eyed; 8/11/11, 9:45 AM
Phil 314 said...: Wonder Woman is Danica Patrick; 8/11/11, 9:53 AM
Paul said...: Pogo wrote:

More simply:

"What If males posed like females?"

At its core, a stupid question.

Swish! Pogo shoots and scores.

There is a (thankfully small) strand of feminism who claim that anything less than actual equality -- of outcomes, not opportunities -- between men and women is sexist. This is recognized by most sane people over the age of 14 as patently ridiculous, and is quite rightly ignored most of the time.

What motivated you to "retweet" the question, Ann?; 8/11/11, 9:58 AM
Fen said...: I'm still trying to figure out: if women are "equal", then how is it they were dominated and oppressed by males for at least 200,000 years...; 8/11/11, 10:02 AM
TWM said...: "Wonder Woman is Danica Patrick"

Only if Danica uses a Wonder Bra.; 8/11/11, 10:05 AM
PaulV said...: You are talking about preteen boys and men of their equivalent; 8/11/11, 10:07 AM
chickelit said...: 9:18 (amended)

Suppose we just plucked peacocks and surgically implanted their feathers onto peahens?

Would that finally make some peafoul happy?

___________
wv = tryin; 8/11/11, 10:12 AM
HJA said...: She's in this corny, hip-cocked, Christina Aguilera/Buffy sort of pose, that's the contrapposto AA is talking about. The cover is stupid: the frowns on all the guys are ridiculous, and what's Superman doing with his hands, like he's Dr. Strange or something? Is he flying, or just sort of "presiding" over the assembly? Generally, I hate, hate, hate the way female superheroes are drawn these days, they look like girls, not women, see Gene Colan's Black Widow, John Buscema's Scarlet Witch for what I say is more like it; file under things were better when I was a kid.; 8/11/11, 10:14 AM
Scott M said...: This is recognized by most sane people over the age of 14 as patently ridiculous, and is quite rightly ignored most of the time.

My very astute 7-year-old girl grasps this concept, so if she develops it between now and 14, it won't be because we've taught her that at home.; 8/11/11, 10:24 AM
Titus said...: tits, I want to feel large, pointy tits.

I also like to "cup em"

Every man should have the right to "cup" a tit and hold it for sake keeping.

tits....and clouds.

wonder woman's tits
hard
tough on crime
patriotic
tits.

thank you; 8/11/11, 10:28 AM
edutcher said...: Diana Prince looks like she wants it standing up.; 8/11/11, 10:28 AM
Jake said...: Scott M said...
Just chant "target demo" over and over and you'll get why they don't pose like that.

Sums it up right there. If there was a strong market for effeminate super hero's I'm sure that you'd see male superheroes posing like that. In the mean time horny teenage boys will continue to fantasize about a sexy wonder woman.; 8/11/11, 10:35 AM
Anonymous said...: What if males and females had different bodies? That'd be weird, wouldn't it?

- Lyssa; 8/11/11, 10:36 AM
Scott M said...: What if males and females had different bodies? That'd be weird, wouldn't it?

That kind of talk will get you booted right out of N.O.W. Best take care...; 8/11/11, 10:39 AM
Martin L. Shoemaker said...: Let's see...

Wonder Woman stands, legs apart and braced for battle, right fist raised with lasso, left fist at her side, glaring at the viewer.

Green Lantern stands, legs apart and braced for battle, right fist raised with ring, left fist at his side, glaring at the viewer.

Aquaman stands, legs apart and braced for battle, right fist at the spear head, left fist gripping the spear, glaring at the viewer.

Someone care to tell me where the sexism is here? (Unless of course it's the costume itself, but that's pretty old news.); 8/11/11, 10:47 AM
Christopher said...: They've tried numerous times to appeal to women with strong female characters (by creating new ones or reworking old ones) and the results are always the same:

It fails.

Women usually don't care about comics, so they don't buy it. Guys prefer comics with male leads or lots of cheesecake, which aren't present for obvious reasons, so they don't buy them.

The comic eventually folds (while somehow attracting a sizeable gay fanbase).

What's entertaining is that female readers tend to prefer manga (japanese comics) more so than guys despite the fact that manga tends to be far worse in regards to fanservice and stereotypical female characters.; 8/11/11, 10:50 AM
David said...: The male superheroes presumably already have dicks and do not need to pose with a (long but limp) dick symbol.; 8/11/11, 10:53 AM
Scott M said...: The male superheroes presumably already have dicks and do not need to pose with a (long but limp) dick symbol.

Ever see the workup on what Superman would do to a human woman during sex?

Man of Steel, Woman of Tissue, I think it was called.; 8/11/11, 11:01 AM
Michael E. Lopez said...: Christopher-

Whatever comic books you are reading, you clearly are reading neither Wonder Woman nor Fantastic Four. Susan Richards and WW are right up there with Paksenarrion, Honor Harrington, and Lady Jessica in the world of "Strong Women" in genre fiction.

Total stupendous bad asses, every one of them.; 8/11/11, 11:01 AM
Dark Eden said...: what if feminists died of blacklung in coal mines supporting their husbands?

This is a fun game.; 8/11/11, 11:03 AM
Scott M said...: what if feminists died of blacklung in coal mines supporting their husbands?

Second most funny line from Zoolander

"I think I've got the black lung, pop."; 8/11/11, 11:05 AM
Revenant said...: Wonder Woman comics spent their early years as, basically, PG-rated bondage porn. The creator produced quite a bit of work that wasn't so PG-rated, as well.; 8/11/11, 11:24 AM
gerry said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/11/11, 11:24 AM
Christopher said...: Revenant,

To be fair so did Joe Shuster.; 8/11/11, 11:43 AM
Anonymous said...: Someone care to tell me where the sexism is here? (Unless of course it's the costume itself, but that's pretty old news.)

Leave her alone, she's just gearing up for the next slut-walk.; 8/11/11, 12:01 PM
Scott M said...: How is it sexist when the men are wearing skin-tight (ie junk displaying) outfits? Because the amount of skin?

I know quite a few women that LOVE football specifically because of the tight pants.; 8/11/11, 12:04 PM
Christopher said...: MEL,

My point had nothing to do with their worth as characters but simply with their ability to sell comics.

Of those two characters only WW has had a regular comic book dedicated to her and, frankly, that was only because for a good while DC had to publish a set amount of her comics each year or lose their rights to it. While that is no longer the case the fact remains that her numbers are usually well below other major titles.

People always talk about the "Big 3" at DC (I refuse to call them a trinity) but for the most part she sells nowhere near the number of comics as Batman and Superman.

I am trying to think of female centric comics that were not simply excuses for fan service (which rules out anything by Top Cow and Wildstorm) and the best list I can come up with off the top of my head is:

-Batgirl (slightly O/T but Cassandra Cain is probably amongst my top 3 favorites)
-BOP (I actually preferred it pre-Simone)
-Spidergirl
-She-Hulk
-Wonder Woman
-Alias (no it wasn't based on the show)
-Zatanna (assuming it is an ongoing)

Now I'm sure I'm missing out on a large number of such comics but the fact of the matter is that none of those sold (or sells) all that well on a regular basis. They get a spike for specials and tie-ins but typically they hover just above the cancellation limit.; 8/11/11, 12:07 PM
MnMark said...: Yeah let's eliminate femininity and masculinity. Make the women look and behave like men and the men look and behave like women - because everything must be EQUAL, even if it makes the world bland and wrong and horrible. EQUAL EQUAL EQUAL.; 8/11/11, 12:34 PM
Martin L. Shoemaker said...: lyssalovelyredhead said...

Leave her alone, she's just gearing up for the next slut-walk.

Wonder Woman's costume is silly and impractical and sexist. Always has been. That's a given. (But it's still better than what they did to her in the 70s.)

By the standards of Slut Walk -- or for that matter, modern beach wear or even a fair amount of what you see on TV today -- it's downright modest. But it's impractical in combat unless you're invulnerable, which she's not. And if invulnerability means showing skin, why isn't Superman in a loin cloth.

So I won't dispute the sexism of the outfit, but again it's 70+ year old news. But the pose is essentially identical to the poses of the other standing characters, so this outrage is manufactured.; 8/11/11, 12:39 PM
Crunchy Frog said...: Scott M:

Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex, by Larry Niven

Hilarious 25 years ago when I first read it, and still hilarious today.

Danica Patrick as Wonder Woman? Please. Angelina Jolie. Or maybe Anna Paquin, for the Sookie Stackhouse fans.; 8/11/11, 12:43 PM
Shanna said...: How is it sexist when the men are wearing skin-tight (ie junk displaying) outfits? Because the amount of skin?

Exactly. It’s not like the men are in a normal outfit.

I know quite a few women that LOVE football specifically because of the tight pants.

Those tight pants tend to look a lot better on the quarterback than the linebackers. (speaking of, I am SO ready for football season!).

Now I'm sure I'm missing out on a large number of such comics but the fact of the matter is that none of those sold (or sells) all that well on a regular basis.

I would think there is more money in the movies/tv/merchandising tie in’s than the actual comic books.; 8/11/11, 12:55 PM
Scott M said...: I would think there is more money in the movies/tv/merchandising tie in’s than the actual comic books.

Granted, but that wasn't the case for most of comics' history.; 8/11/11, 1:01 PM
James said...: Dumb. Women have different bodies than men, and pose differently. Zut alors, sound the Patriarchy alarm!; 8/11/11, 1:08 PM
Christopher said...: "I would think there is more money in the movies/tv/merchandising tie in’s than the actual comic books."

Oh, there is far more money in merchandising for any of the major titles than in the actual sale of comics (it's why WB and Disney own DC and Marvel); at best it's a break even industry.

However, even they aren't going to continue publishing an unpopular series (usually anything below the 30k sold range) absent a compelling reason (as seen in the past with WW).; 8/11/11, 1:58 PM
bagoh20 said...: ""What If Male Superheroes Posed Like Wonder Woman On The David Finch Justice League Cover?""

Then I actually would be homophobic.; 8/11/11, 2:02 PM
Salamandyr said...: They are, what constitutes a sexy pose for men is different from what constitutes a sexy pose for women. But in both cases the author has them striking sexy poses.; 8/11/11, 4:26 PM
hoop said...: They do.

Granted, it's in a male version, but if you stop and look at covers with male superheroes, you'll find many examples of phallic references. Even in the Finch cover posted, there's a hand in gripping position near the crotch of every male character (except Superman, whose crotch is blocked by WW's head). The lasso is vaguely stylized as GL's pubes, and the contours of the Flash's uniform makes it look like Batman really has a solid grip on things.

(Here's a full image of that cover.)

Welcome to comic books. (Which I do enjoy from time to time. The Astro City series is a particular favorite.); 8/11/11, 4:44 PM
Synova said...: "How is it sexist when the men are wearing skin-tight (ie junk displaying) outfits?"

Exactly.

The men in the picture are posturing as well, chests out - guts in. (And "junk" nicely defined.) They are sideways and partly behind the others because WW is front and center.

If someone thinks that male superheroes are not displayed in a sexual way, they probably simply aren't interested in guys. Yes, yes, the boys are interested in seeing the fantastical boobies and butts and whatnot, but they are also interested in imagining themselves to be the male heroes in all of their physical (ie. sexual) dominance.

Wonder Woman could be tucked away behind the others. She usually is, IIRC. Why not be pleased that she's becoming more important, less of an after-thought?

But the professionals aren't looking for things to be happy about, they're trying to find oppression. There is no balance or objectivity involved.

If someone *tried* to find that the male superheroes with their well defined junk and hyper-musculature were treated similarly to the women superheroes, that is what they would find, and without half trying.; 8/11/11, 5:00 PM
Phil 314 said...: I say Danica Patrick as Wonder woman because its the same fascination with a good looking and buxom woman in a man's world.

And in the same light would we see an ad with a NASCAR racer in a tuxedo (as we've seen with Danica in a sequined gown); 8/11/11, 5:23 PM
Phil 314 said...: Fred;
How could you forget these guys; 8/11/11, 5:27 PM
Synova said...: (Reminder to self: Do not click links with obnoxious teenagers in the room.); 8/11/11, 5:36 PM
Synova said...: "And in the same light would we see an ad with a NASCAR racer in a tuxedo (as we've seen with Danica in a sequined gown)"

Possibly. I thought that NASCAR was as likely to have posters of stars as other sports. If there aren't male NASCAR pin-ups someone isn't doing their marketing homework. Even Harlequin has a NASCAR line of romance books.; 8/11/11, 5:39 PM
Revenant said...: The real scandal is that Wonder Woman is posing with her breasts like that even though Green Lantern has been accused of sexual harassment.; 8/11/11, 8:16 PM