Wall Street Journal: "A Tea Party Triumph: The debt deal is a rare bipartisan victory for the forces of smaller government."
New York Times: "To Escape Chaos, a Terrible Deal" ("a nearly complete capitulation to the hostage-taking demands of Republican extremists").
Washington Post (Greg Sargent): "GOP on verge of huge, unprecedented political victory."
Since the vote has not occurred, I have the uneasy feeling that I'm hearing sales pressure. What a fabulous deal for you! Sign here!
That's not to say lying and spinning become a thing of the past after the deal is closed. It just changes. Before, the effort is to get people to sign on. Those who most want the deal have a motivation to act like it's a big victory for whoever is most resistant — in this case, the Tea Party. Afterwards, everyone tries to find a way to gain — either by claiming they really extracted a lot out of the other side and/or by blaming anything that seems bad now on the terrible concessions their stupid/evil opponents insisted on.
This morning, reading these editorials, I suspect that the mainstream media think the Tea Party members of Congress are crazy — they're out there on the ledge. The idea is to talk them in.
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I ask you, how crazy can those Tea Party Republicans be, not wanting our children and grandchildren to be debt slaves?
...I suspect that the mainstream media think the Tea Party members of Congress are crazy — they're inside the building. The idea is to talk them out onto the ledge.
FTFY.
I once bought some pretty expensive photography equipment that was discontinued and pushed very hard for a reduced price. I didn't get it but bought anyway. The salesman then told me 'A wish purchase' and I immediately became sure it was exactly the opposite!
I knew they'd wait until the last minute to try and bamboozle GOP. I say pick it apart with an army of lawyers before signing it. Obama and the Dems have proven to be disingenuous in their negotiations, underhanded at best, and interested only in victory even at the cost of the nation.
There are no tax increases. But there are virtually no near-term spending cuts, either. All the projected cuts happen later, which means, of course, that they can be modified or rescinded by the next congress. So it's pretty much a big do-nothing--they might as well have just done a simple debt ceiling increase without all the drama.
They're trying to kick the can down the road again. Call your reps and tell them no way.
Another baloney sandwich.
I guess this is the best you can get out of a boner and a zero.
Where are you Joe D ?
The scoring seems accurate to me, at least insofar as liberals (i.e. the MSM) really do see this as a conservative victory and a liberal defeat. Paul Krugman's column today says "the deal itself, given the available information, is a disaster, and not just for President Obama and his party."
Oh stop it - it was not only the best economic deal we could get, but, more importantly, an unintended result is Obama's now more exposed than he's ever been - by going for what HE wanted:
Oprah should have warned him to beware what he wishes for,...
Called my Congressman.
Wouldn't bother with Menendez or Lousyberg. Oy. Losers.
If you don't want to agree to deal (LOL) with this "later," call your reps today. Don't just vent here.
It is all about positioning for 2012. Using reverse psychology the MSM is once again resorting to fear tactics on the one hand while the inference being that Tea Party Folk are too rabidly extreme for the conversation on the other so don't let them bamboozle you into giving them a victory.
It is a trademark of the democratic party that obfuscation has been replace by unapologetic lying. Ergo, the Tea Party is doing something right which is an existential threat to all the progressives stand for.
I would strongly urge you all to read the WSJ's take very closely before getting yourself into a huff and making trouble - November is the goal, not today.
Damn you, learn how to win again!!!
Conservatives got everything they wanted!
(So next time they'll have to be fair and give us some of what we want, right? They shouldn't get all the pie, right?)
Given the Dems control the White House and the Senate, this is a massive victory.
It's that simple.
No one on the right thinks the aims of the Tea Party are crazy - only some tactics and expectations given limited numbers in office.
You want a more substantial, meaningful gain? Win in 2012.
And now, the President will get to take his latest vacation, frolicking among the wealthy on Martha's Vineyard -- despite all of the "painful cuts" from the debt bill that he will sign into law.
Basic math is still losing
Obama now has his "shared sacrifice" issue teed up for the 2012 election. I think this is GOOD for him politically. He will demagog this issue to death, and the technique may work.
And by the way, this deal is not a victory for anyone. It is a small first step towards controlling spending excesses. We have seen such first steps be the only step many times in the past.
No victory dances please, because there is no victory. We still have the same very big problem.
David,
This deal is not a victory for anyone. It is a small first step towards controlling spending excesses. We have seen such first steps be the only step many times in the past.
No victory dances please, because there is no victory. We still have the same very big problem.
Oh please - do you people understand "politics" at all? Look at his poll numbers! We creamed him!
We can't do shit from the weakened position we're in and, lo and behold, we actually got something out of the deal!!! Including bloodying the President of the United States!!! Are you fools?
You must be not to see it because it's clear as day to me:
2012 - here we come!!!
He wanted new taxes; sorry, enhanced revenues. You know, those rich corporate jet owners, et al.
All he got basically, it seems, was an agreement to put off the next spending fight until after the 2012 presidential election.
If I were running in 2012, I would mention this very prominently in my campaign. The President wanted this put off. We put it off. Elect me, and we can actually do something real.
They're trying to kick the can down the road again.
We’ve only got the house. This may be all we could get. As I said, it’s an excellent jumping off point for a campaign in 2012.
Here is why this is a victory for conservatives: the debt ceiling is in play now. Every time. It's like in the Senate now where there is an almost permanent filibuster. It's the new normal.
It is quite simple. The Democrats are hoping, praying for 1937 all over again.
Your skepticism is well-advised, Madame.
The good news there will be no Stimulus III or heavy tax increases, fueled by a market crash, as TARP was. (may we presume the market mavens realized the markets kept right on dropping after TARP was passed?)
But most of the spending cuts are out-year, so they're only worth as much as the Congresses wish to make them - if the Tea Party (which is looking more and more like the Republicans of the 1850s) does to DC what the Republicans did to slavery, it might fly.
Most of the establishment in DC loses on this - Boehner, Dingy Harry, Chuckie Schumer, and the RINOs. They were all bent to the Tea Partiers' will - not as much as the TP might have wanted, but this ends a lot differently than it was expected.
The biggest loser, of course, is Little Zero, who has been shown to be mean, petty, and childish. Watch for him to be primaried - maybe even drop like out LBJ.
I think most tea party people view this as yet another failure. An agreement to spend an additional $1trillion over the next year in exchange for cutting $1trillion over the next 10 years is not a deal.
"If you loan me a trillion dollars this year, I'll agree to increase my spending by $100billion less this year than I expected," does not sound like victory to me.
They ain't need no "crazy" TeaPartiers if Obama could rope some House Democrats to vote for his Big F*cking Deal and Senate Democrats not to filibuster.
I think it's surprisingly good considering that the GOP does not control the Senate or the Presidency.
I hear that it looks like it's going to go through. Good!
Did you hear that now the deal is done, That mealy mouthed Mitt Romney has boldly stated that he is against it.
Talk about leading from the rear!
Wouldn't surprise me if Republicans get all the "credit" (scare quotes intentional) and Obama deliberately tanks the economy before the election so as to blame Republicans.
That's how low my opinion of our president is.
On the other hand, this deal is going to make we "extremists" who want responsible government madder than ever. The media may gleefully assume that the Repubs will get the blame from our side but they are mostly wrong - as usual. The TP needed a shot in the arm right about now, and this ought to do it.
"Since the vote has not occurred, I have the uneasy feeling that I'm hearing sales pressure. What a fabulous deal for you! Sign here!"
Exactly. That's what Klein's doing, too. He did it last week as well.
Why would Tea Partiers be angry? I consider myself a Tea Partier. The GOP is not magical. It cannot make everything go its way without the Senate and the Presidency.
This seems like a great first step and has changed the debate.
"an unintended result is Obama's now more exposed than he's ever been"
Roger. A most valuable result. Exposure is cleaning.
I am with Crack and Freeman on this, 110%. This deal is all you can ask for under the circumstances. It changes our direction, however slightly, and keeps the debt (as opposed to the debt ceiling) at the top of the issues for 2012. This is a real victory.
How is someone like Romney (who has flaws, I know) not going to just eviscerate Obama over how this played out?
"I suspect that the mainstream media think the Tea Party members of Congress are crazy — they're out there on the ledge."
Yes, they probably do.So?
The MSM said the same about former pres. Reagan (when they weren't depicting him a not only senile, but stupid). He way "Raygun," the out-of-control cowboy who was bringing us not merely to the edge of default, but to the edge of the nuclear-war abyss.
One feature of the MSM seems to be that it never has to say, "We were wrong." Oh, they do a few minor retractions and such- but when did you see a full "mea culpa," explaining how some part of their shared worldview might bave been dramatically and critically wrong?
Prof A
You got it.
Some Tea Party people are unhappy because the deal does little to actually deal with the deficit. (Is it the best the country could hope for? Perhaps. But that has little to do with some people's happiness about the bill and its presumed outcomes... like huge cuts to defense, higher taxes, etc.)
I don't think anyone in DC thinks this deal will actually be a tool to save the future. (It's a bandaid to stop the current circus and put off further circuses for a year and a half.) As for 2012, who will get the blame when the economy does not recover? The MSM say the Republicans won in this deal, so they will obviously get the blame. And Obama will be let off the hook for the economy.
Ann's analysis certainly explains the Journal's seeming about face of the Tea Party, but I'm not sure I agree in totality.
The Tea Party exercised disproportionate power relative to their numbers. That is a genuine victory for them, and a newsworthy one regardless of viewpoint.
There are HUGE tax increases hidden in this bill. The devil is in the details which are truly depressing. The base line budget assumed in the deal is the Obama budget including stimulus funding, the scheduled expiration of lower Bush tax rates (triggering a record income tax increase), the punitive AMT (Alternative Minimum Tax) tax rates (which in recent years have been annually amended by Congress) and scheduled Obamacare tax increases.
In order to continue the lower Bush tax rates, Congress will have to find 5 trillion dollars in compensatory new taxes or cuts to comply with the terms of this bill.
The bill also forces half of all spending cuts to be taken out of the defense budget. So the bill locks in huge tax increases without explicitly mentioning them.
Dancing with transitory default is better than this bill.
How about the multi-billion dollars cut from the budget resolution a few months ago? The very unhelpful CBO scored that as a couple of mils cut.
Bet it's the same kind of Conservative blow out victory.
Don't trust, and verify.
The "super committee" takes everything out of Obama's hands. He won't have to create a deficit reducing budget. He won't have to decide where cuts are made. He won't have to argue for tax increases. He won't have to propose tax reform. He won't have to deal with entitlement reform.
All he'll have to do is complain about what he doesn't like and campaign.
This is Obama's dream.
It's amazing that a balanced budget is considered "insane".
"the Tea Party members ... [a]re out there on the ledge. The idea is to talk them in."
Wrong analogy. The Dems have been co-opting and bamboozling establishment Repubs for decades now. This entire Blue Machine monstrosity was constructed non-stop, no matter which party held the White House or Congress.
The Tea Party Repubs are onto the Dems and are out to dismantle the Blue Machine; that's why the Dems fear them so much. The Dems are merely trying to use their long-time foils, the establishment Repubs, to thwart their sharper colleagues for now.
The establishment media is no longer "The" mainstream. Perhaps they're "A" mainstream. We have two mainsreams in the U.S. just now. There is that consisting of the governing class, featuring most bureaucrats, most people at our elite universities and other tax-exempt institutions, Wall Street, and some others. (They still think it's 1993, and the idea of GOP control of Congress is unthinkable).
Then there is the mainstream of U.S. opinion in general--it it well to the "right" of the elite mainstream on many issues.
Moreover, thanks to the internet, talk radio, Fox, etc., there's no longer one big conversation, and one, big stovepipe for saying which facts are the basis of discussion.
The NY Times is "moderate" in the elite mainstream. It is center-left to the country at large. In the second spectrum, National Review (to pick one) is probably as far right as the Times is Left.
"And Obama will be let off the hook for the economy."
Um, no.
The new media is declaring this a big victory for the Tea Party in order to lower expectations for any further actions and to point fingers when this tiny trickle fails to do anything meaningful.
It is quite simple. The Democrats are hoping, praying for 1937 all over again.
So China bombs Pearl Harbor in four years?
I'm curious - do you all actually believe that Obama wants to see America fail? I mean, what motivation does he have to try to make healthcare cheaper, or help people who don't have jobs other than just wanting to help a majority of Americans? It can't be just to be President, as the insults and pressure of the job seem undesirable. The salary is nice, but I'm sure he could be making more money in another field. So, again, when you see a person trying to pass legislation that's main goal is to help America (in the case of the debt limit, help America in the immediate) - why all the hate?
1422ce18-bc99-11e0-8fda-000bcdcb2996 said...
I'm curious - do you all actually believe that Obama wants to see America fail?
Of course not, he wants it to succeed, but only as a socialist workers' utopia. He has no desire whatsoever to see it succeed as a capitalist nation.
I mean, what motivation does he have to try to make healthcare cheaper
He really doesn't care that healthcare actually gets "cheaper". For him, it's a matter of control.
...or help people who don't have jobs other than just wanting to help a majority of Americans?
Because everyone without a job eventually becomes a ward of the state, and as such, becomes a reliable voter for bigger government.
It can't be just to be President, as the insults and pressure of the job seem undesirable.
Really, were you ever concerned about the level of insults and vitriol against Bush? But he deserved them, right?
The salary is nice, but I'm sure he could be making more money in another field.
Yeah, that racial rabble rousing, the only actual working experience he ever had, is a really high paying gig. But there is a real sacrifice to him for being the president, that his wife no longer has her no show hospital community organizing job with a salary of $350K, which was so important that they didn't even other to replace her when she left to go to her current gig, busybodying the nation on nutrition, and taking multi-million dollar taxpayer-paid vacations.
So, again, when you see a person trying to pass legislation that's main goal is to help America (in the case of the debt limit, help America in the immediate) - why all the hate?
His main goal was to make sure the incentives to make real cuts, other than defense, would be toothless, and that he wouldn't have to argue for his insane spending during the 2012 election.
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