"The liberal and leftist groups that were at the forefront of the revolution have lost touch with the Egyptian people," says Shadi Hamid, director of research at the Brookings Institution's Doha Center. "These protesters have alienated much of Egypt. For some time they've been deceiving themselves by saying that the silent majority is on their side—but all evidence points to the contrary, and Monday's events confirm that."
August 2, 2011
"Mobs of ordinary Egyptians joined with soldiers to drive pro-democracy protesters from their encampment in Tahrir Square..."
"... showing how far the uprising's early heroes have fallen in the eyes of the public."
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79 comments:
Hope and Change.
But no plan.
Sound familiar?
No shit.
Just like Obama and his Progs lost touch with their message. Now they are the crony capitalists, with the least transparent, dictatorial administration in many many years. Wars, drones, and for gosh sakes don't torture...just go in a soverign nation and shoot the SOB.
The VP calling good citizens "terrorists" when they can't even bring themselves to call the Fort Hood shooter a terrorist in their PC meme.
Marxisms collectivity takes a dive every time in reality. How do you think it went from a 2 man theory to "Marism" alone. So much for collective utopia.
Law of the universe....a void will be filled.
Sadly, all too predictable.
"This is what democracy looks like."
At least we can send them more money now.
So "ordinary" means not liberal? Why is that ordinary? Is there a better description of this group?
Mubarak's 40 years left Egypt an orderly society.
The rioters have a voice now. But the country craves order and life more than it is insane to crave chaos and Muslim suicide.
So "ordinary" means not liberal? Why is that ordinary? Is there a better description of this group?
Inflicting American ideals of left and right, of liberal and conservative, on another country so unlike ours is nearly the height of hubris. George Clooney is a tad higher, but only just.
Oh, don't worry everyone. Things will work out a lot better in Libya and Syria. Hillary! will lead these people to a better life.
Now down to important matters: Were there any blue eyed western devil woman to molest?
Now down to important matters: Were there any blue eyed western devil woman to molest?
I think that if they can form a government that allows them to express their hatred of Jews and their distrust of woman's sexuality, they will be happy and prosperous.
Well if the Egyptians want to see order restored, then they need to send the mobs demanding disorder everyday to somewhere they will be appreciated...like Madison, Wisconsin.
I can't keep up.
Refresh my recollection.
Who are the good guys?
And which side are we on?
trad,
If the Egyptian protesters saw what the Madison protesters were bitching about, they'd kick their sissy asses.
And which side are we on?
In a world sliding quickly from unipolar to multipolar, I'd say we're on our side and it pretty much ends at that.
Well, at least things are normal in Islamismland. Does the Turkish Generals' mass resignation coincide here for any reason?
It's a shame we don't have a President who is up for this sort of thing...
Where IS that bottle of Knob Creek?
Anyone who thought the islamacists would not emerge on top are idiots. buts thats just MHO
Syria MIGHT be a different story--time will tell.
Our foreign policy is only less slight fucked up than our domestic economy policy under this idiot who is our president.
but as long as he was chosen by coolly rational analysis, what can go wrong?
Tank...Mubarak was a 40 year ally of Israel and the Great Satan.
That used to mean he was on our side.
But faced with ill health and a succession imminent, the Obamanists who love Muslim chaos which gives them a chance to re-organize the middle east decided that Mubarack was an enemy.
Now Obama has those pesky Israelis surrounded...a lot like the 101st at Bastogne said the poor German bastards had them surrounded.
Unexpectedly!
It's not enough to win, you've got to show results.
What have they done?
Gee... I never saw this coming.
OK, I seem to remember, in our last thrilling episode, that the "liberal and leftist groups" were being seen as shills, front men, and useful idiots for the Islamic crazies.
So is this new development a good thing?
Or did I miss an episode because I was with The Blonde at Borders snatching up the bargains rather than at the Super Saturday Cowboy Matinee?
PS We have lost in Libya?
Haven't we?
My fearless prediction re Egypt:
we will see a Taliban like government emerge.
Fallen in the eyes of the public? A more plausible explanation is that the Facebook never really represented anyone but themselves. Useful idiots indeed. As are the idiots in the West who forced Mubarak to leave.
Facebook kids, that is.
"The liberal and leftist groups that were at the forefront of the revolution have lost touch with the Egyptian people," says Shadi Hamid,
What revolution?
Military was in power. Military still in power.
The first rule of implementing change through revolution is to actually have a revolution.
Time for another Arab Spring speech.
Gee, you would almost think they want a Caliphate surrounding the Medditerrean and up through the Balkans. Maybe Spain? Nah! Thats wacky. Sensible people dont think that.
Maybe they'd feel better if they were part of the heart-shaped balloon community.
@dodson, my thoughts exactly. G Beck called this 2 years ago, also gold, also devaluation of dollar and credit.
What I find amazing is that there are still so many people that don't see that this is the plan. Why is he golfing and fund raising and on the attack on the Tea Party and the class warfare? Please, do the manuals not tell you this is how it's done.
When someone shows you who they are...believe them....the first time.
"Clean up, clean up in aisle Cairo."
It's a shame we don't have a President who is up for this sort of thing...
===============
Last one that had a good clue was HW Bush, though he was clueless on the economy. Before him, Reagan, who was smart enough not to get sucked in as Israel's puppet in Lebanon and did a good job at not blowing treasure and some lives on nation-building the Islamoids.
It is hard for me to criticize the Arabs' search for leadership to take them out of their obvious third-world condition.
They've been plundered by thieves and murderers holding the reigns of the states created by the French and British.
And it is especially hard for me to criticize their reluctance to turn to the U.S. for help, given that we stood by and supported the thieves and murderers.
We utterly abandoned our principles in a bargain for middle-east security, and now we're complaining that the Arabs don't come rushing to embrace us and our democratic ways, instead toying with the idea of turning to the religious leaders?
Who are we kidding about our virtue? We're the supporters of thieves and plunderers.
I have done two Egyptian Cab Drivers.
One had a huge hog. The other not so huge.
Clouds.
I think some Kinetic Military Action will straighten these fucktards out. I mean, look at Libya.
Ridin' high in April, shot down in May...
"The Sinai Peninsula, once a demilitarized buffer zone, is now a lawless Badlands"
Smart Power.....
So the Arabs really don't like freedom. Got it.
Now Obama has those pesky Israelis surrounded...a lot like the 101st at Bastogne said the poor German bastards had them surrounded.
Now all they need is a Patton to pull their ashes out of the fire.
Too bad we have a poor imitation of Montgomery in the WH.
wv: slacra - the fabric for underacheivers.
Quayle,
"The first rule of implementing change through revolution is to actually have a revolution."
Not so sure about that. Skipping the "actual revolution" part does cut down on a lot of fuss, bother, casualties, and icky stuff like that...
"...We utterly abandoned our principles in a bargain for middle-east security,.."
You mean we picked the lesser of two evils. Nasser hated our guts and so did Sadat until Jimmah found out how much he could be bought for.
Ever stop to think that thieves and plunderers are all that the Egyptian political class has to offer?
"...Too bad we have a poor imitation of Montgomery in the WH..."
More like Marshal Petain.
Hoosier:
Ever stop to think that thieves and plunderers are all that the ... political class has to offer?
FIFY.
Michael Totten went to Egypt. Then, he got so sick he nearly died. The food's not safe to eat. And, from photos I've seen, no one is collecting garbage. So garbage is piled high. Not just in the streets. But on balconies. And, bags dangle for windows like quilts in the wind.
Mubarak will soon get his show trial. Because the country is crazy, nuts!
They still circumcize little girls. Proof positive these people are truly nuts!
They are also starving! The goons have taken over the distribution of propane. Which is the fuel Egyptians use in their kitchens. And, in their stalls. Where they sell food they've prepared.
No one has any money!
It's an overpopulated nation. You'll notice, if you look, that the overpopulation did not break into Libya. Which is a very small, oil rich nation. The Libyans kept them out! The "prize?" The rebel leader was killed by an imam guy who wanted top billing.
Going with obama seems to be a bad luck card. The french are handing out white flags.
And, egypt? One beset with 10 plagues ... where some people don't believe this ... Will probably see ushered in another ten plagues. Even though there's no pharoah, exactly, in charge.
Don't bet on a recovery.
Don't bet on a rcovery for Chavez, either.
Propaganda? Maybe, you'll call it well done? I saw a photo on Drudge was Chavez was a just a dancing corpse. In clean clothes. Before he collapsed, again, after he got off the balcony.
Someday, we may say it was a good thing that obama dithered? What's the good of going in ... when you can't keep anything you win?
Are the newspapers really this dumb? Did they really think a Google guy could save Egypt?
The Islamists seem to be following the template: incite a revolution with some good guys in front, then shoot their leaders and take over.
How's that Arab Spring working out for you?
More exclamation marks, Carol!!!
"These protesters have alienated much of Egypt. For some time they've been deceiving themselves by saying that the silent majority is on their side—but all evidence points to the contrary"
Hey, Madison libs, are you paying attention?
The Dem habit of facilitating the removal of imperfect allies (the shah, Mubarak) to bring militant thugs to power continues unabated
I dunno...One voice from a think tank in Doha telling us how to interpret the voices in Cairo.
Who here listens to NBC's Brian Williams, or the other talking heads?
Whenever have liberals (in the classical sense of the word) ever prevailed in a revolution?
Only in America . . .
Or, well, Britain in 1688. But that was Part Deux, as it were.
Hoosier Daddy said...
"...Too bad we have a poor imitation of Montgomery in the WH..."
More like Marshal Petain.
Depends on which World War.
Okay. the mobs in Cairo stole most of the treasures from the Cairo Museum.
And, the other thing they did was cancel the tourists.
How do you cancel tourists?
Well, you create smoke in your streets. And, people who "dreamt" of a vacation where they could get on top of a camel. And, see pryamids. Went to hell in a handbasket.
So? Are the mobs surprised, yet?
Is hillary still gonna unload American tax dollars?
You think this is about Mubarak? Bubarak is not the Shah of Iran! The Shah of Iran had his own money!
Dynasties die.
Maybe, even for TV shows?
This is why you have military strongmen as leaders in the Middle East. This what the Egyptians have to choose from; The Islamic death cult of Mohammed, the military and various flavors of socialists and communists. I am not at all sure that dictatorship is not the way to go given the range of choices on offer.
Do not let Lara Logan know about this development. She will NEED to go and report the story.
Reading some comments it seems that people exist in a kind of alternative universe of their own making. When Truth does not exist, when history is contantly being rewritten to accomodate that most unaccomodating of things, facts, and when hatred, fear, and racism fill the void where values should be... we have one messed up jumble of psuedo thought. Constantly babbling on about Marxism displays an inability to realize that Marxism does not exist anymore. It is a buzz word from the last big Bogeyman of the Right, Communism. If you must slur Obama please come up with something that does not sound so retro.
Gonna suck big time to be a woman there in NO time at all. Won't hear a peep from their liberated and un-forced cliterectomied sisters here.
Plus, the MoMA is still sending Tut treasures back. Gonna be wonderful when the Muslim Brotherhood takes a sledgehammer to them in the name of clearing all idolatry from the land of Pharoah.
This is why I always laugh when I hear a college professor or some idealistic 20-something calling for anti-capitalist revolution.
Do they really think that if a Marxist revolution goes down that they'll be in charge? Don't they realize that they'll be the first ones up against the wall when the really nasty SOB's take control?
Capitalism isn't to blame for our woes. The main problem is that the socialists have very nearly run out of other people's money.
Pragmatist:
Constantly babbling on about Marxism displays an inability to realize that Marxism does not exist anymore.
Lame.
Of course it exists. It exists in the minds of its adherents. It's certainly debateable whether Obama & Co are Marxists (and by "Marxist" I don't mean a full-on Bolshevik revolutionary, but one who believes in Marxian theories about labor and capital).
I had hoped Egypt might turn into a sane State, but things aren't looking good, and I can't say I'm surprised.
but one who believes in Marxian theories about labor and capital
Some of POTUS's own people have stated they still do publicly. Unless, I suppose, Mao doesn't count as communist.
Interesting. The people revolt before the establishment of a left-wing regime. They reject both the orthodox Muslims and liberals. Presumably, they are not fans of redistributive change, the progressive involuntary exploitation which it embraces, and the progressive loss of liberty inherent to left-wing ideologies.
They may be aware that historically, it is more common to be oppressed through a tyranny of the minority, but that tyranny of the majority has been the favored method of oppression in their land.
Good luck to the Egyptians as they pursue a reasonable compromise of individual dignity.
In every instance, left-wing ideologies, including: Marxism, communism, socialism, fascism, and others which reject individual dignity, are realized as crony regimes. There is only equal consideration afforded to the leaders and their supporters (which are necessarily a transient cast).
Pragmatist: "racism" means about as much to me as apparently "marxism" means to you--simple buzz words for those incapable of intelligent thought. I suspect you do not see the parallel between the two terms and who uses them. But please carry on.
See, as soon as you say "Leftists," I have no idea who I'm for anymore.
So "ordinary" means not liberal?
In Egypt, yes.
Why is that ordinary?
Because it is Egypt? There is no political or cultural history of Enlightenment values there.
Is there a better description of this group?
"Mainstream"?
It is hard for me to criticize the Arabs' search for leadership to take them out of their obvious third-world condition. They've been plundered by thieves and murderers holding the reigns of the states created by the French and British.
That statement describes SOME Arab states, certainly, but not Egypt. Egypt has existed roughly within its current political boundaries for five hundred years -- and the parts of Egypt that actually have *people* living in them have shared the same political boundary for nearly five THOUSAND years. Egyptians have a lot of problems, but being stuck in a fake country created by Europeans ain't one of them.
Anita Dunn, while serving as White House Communications Director, in 2009 identified Mao as one of her favorite philosophers. Mao and Mother Teresa are two of her favorite philosohers. Ms. Dunn appears to currently be working for President Obama's re-election campaign organization in Chicago.
Her husband, Robert Bauer served as White House Counsel until June, 2011.
Do we all agree that Mao was a Marxist?
Constantly babbling on about Marxism displays an inability to realize that Marxism does not exist anymore.
Are you trying to say there are no Marxists?
"the devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist"
O-kay... No Marxism here. Move along people.
Muslim views in Egypt 2010:
Favorable view of Hamas 49%
Favorable view of Hezbollah 30%
Favorable view of al-Qaeda 20%
Favorable view of bin Laden 19%
48% of Muslims say Islam plays a large role in Egypt's political life and 49% say it plays only a small role.
In Egypt majorities of Muslims who say Islam is playing a large role in politics see this as a good thing, while majorities of those who say Islam is playing only a small role say this is bad for their country.
In Egypt 85% consider Islamic influence over political life to be a positive thing for their country.
Many Muslims see a struggle between those who want to modernize their country and Islamic fundamentalists. Only in Jordan and Egypt do majorities say there is no such struggle in their countries (72% and 61%, respectively).
In Egypt 59% of Muslims who see a struggle in their country say they identify with Islamic fundamentalists.
Muslims in Egypt say they would favor making each of the following the law in their country:
stoning people who commit adultery, (82%)
whippings and cutting off of hands for crimes like theft and robbery (77%)
the death penalty for those who leave the Muslim religion. (84%)
54% of Muslims in Egypt support making gender segregation the law in their country.
Only 59% of Muslims in Egypt say democracy is preferable to any other kind of government.
20% of Muslims in Egypt offer support for suicide bombing in defense of Islam. Only 46% of Muslims in Egypt reject suicide bombings.
In Egypt only 61% are at least somewhat concerned about Islamic extremism in their country.
http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/
The only "winners" in this Egyptian farce is the Army. They get to keep 40-50^% of the economy through shadow companies and flat government monopolies. That was their goal from the start - retain their economic cookies and be left alone. This is the same pattern as in Iran, except there, the revolutionary guard and mullahs control the strings.
The only thing the army needs is a willing dance partner. If the beardies and trash bag ladies can serve that role, then bring on the music (well, not music in this case, that's haram (forbidden) to these folks). The liberals and secularists don't have the numbers, since most people in Egypt really aren't that educated. And the Copts cant be used since they don't have the numbers either and they have the taint of the Khuffar (unbeliever).
The regular people have no basis for swapping the beliefs that have been crammed into their brains since childhood. So those people can be led by the noise by a small vocal group that proclaims "divine authority"
Want to make the Egyptian revolution succeed? Cut off the economic access of the generals to the outside world and cut off the food aid and watch the place fold up. Otherwise, its just one more sorry middle east thug-o-rama.
Is anyone really surprised that this is how the "Arab Spring" ended? Only the Muslim Brotherhood is going to win.
Favorable view of Hamas 49%
Favorable view of Hezbollah 30%
Favorable view of al-Qaeda 20%
Favorable view of bin Laden 19%
Where was that poll taken? Berkley?
Maybe the Church of Solidarity can send the protesters some songbooks and balloons.
I remember lefties being best friends of Khomeini during Iran revolution. Useful idiots never learn. OTOH, they never get less than they deserve. I was amaized yesterday when the Democratic Party leaders and the media had at last found a group of people they could call "terrorists" - the Americans that disagree with them. What a disgrace!
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