Althouse: "Michele Bachmann wins the Iowa straw poll."

August 13, 2011

"Michele Bachmann wins the Iowa straw poll."

"Ron Paul finishes second."

112 comments:

Mark said...: Republicans: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.; 8/13/11, 5:53 PM
traditionalguy said...: Did they draw straws??

If so, Pawlenty got the short one.; 8/13/11, 5:56 PM
clint said...: Wow.

What a resounding slap-in-the-face to Romney and Pawlenty.; 8/13/11, 5:57 PM
clint said...: Is it too soon to point out that this helps Perry?; 8/13/11, 5:59 PM
Chris Althouse Cohen said...: Keep in mind, Romney (and presumably Perry) did not participate in the straw poll, even though they got some votes.; 8/13/11, 5:59 PM
Phil 314 said...: What a resounding slap-in-the-face to Romney and Pawlenty.

Romney was not in the poll.

Sadly, Pawlenty was.; 8/13/11, 6:04 PM
Ambrose said...: I don't think she will be president, but let's enjoy that her victory will upset a lot of the usual suspects. Who thinks the NYT will have an in depth article about her migraines and her husband's gay conversions next week?; 8/13/11, 6:05 PM
Lincolntf said...: I voted for Bendy at first, but then switched to Krazy at the last minute...; 8/13/11, 6:07 PM
Lincolntf said...: Wrong, Clint. Romney wasn't in it.; 8/13/11, 6:08 PM
Phil 314 said...: Pawlenty, this cycle's Lamar Alexander?

Well there is the Senate race in 2012.; 8/13/11, 6:09 PM
Phil 314 said...: Michelle Bachman, this cycle's Pat Robertson?; 8/13/11, 6:10 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Did they also vote on their best cheese?

Who won the blue ribbon in the pie contest?; 8/13/11, 6:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Yes, this is great news, I am at the K-street consultant jamboree and we are all just cheered this news. We now have a GOP person in the front who lives in last century. Obama and Biden in White House till January 2017.

What can top this news? Everyone is happy (e.g., Tina Brown of Newsweek, NPR, PBS, etc.).

This is great!

Now, Perry and Romney will raise so much money in primary that they will be short in general.

OB2 for ever!; 8/13/11, 6:12 PM
J said...: BACHMANN/PAUL: Jeesus, Heroin, and Gold: it's your Gott-given RIGHT.

In the Heartland some of the folks don't care for Mormonics (ie Romneytoids)--unless they're in an Osmond tribute band or doing a Pat Boone medley or somethin'.; 8/13/11, 6:18 PM
Ambrose said...: Hey America's Politico - That is exactly what the Carter folks said about Reagan.; 8/13/11, 6:22 PM
Phil 314 said...: I am at the K-street consultant jamboree

I'm seeing guys in three piece suits and cowboy hats.

sometimes AP nails it!; 8/13/11, 6:24 PM
edutcher said...: Not sure what Mark is talking about.

Any result where the Paulians don't win is a good one. Herman ran 5th, sadly, but how in God's name (yes, I know IA has a lot of Catholics) did Santorum beat him?

PS No exciting adventures today, Madame? Just as well.

I'm sure we all need a rest.

PPS I see J has been allowed Internet access at the home for today.

Or did he just lock himself in the rec room again?; 8/13/11, 6:25 PM
rhhardin said...: Campaign song: Me and my eyeshadow.; 8/13/11, 6:26 PM
Bart DePalma said...: What is notable here is:

1) Very large and enthusiastic turnout. Nearly 10% of the usual caucus turnout, which will also likely be larger than normal

2) Tea Party candidates (of which I include Santorum) took 4 of the top 5 spots. Welcome to the revolution.

3) Romney's rather sizable 2008 support completely evaporated to the point that Perry beat him with a small write in vote.

It would have been very interesting if they polled second choices.; 8/13/11, 6:26 PM
Phil 314 said...: Republicans: Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory

Mark;
Do you honestly believe a couple thousand "true believers" with nothing better to do on a summer Saturday in Ames, Iowa are a representative sample of

Republicans?; 8/13/11, 6:26 PM
Anonymous said...: not a surprise. Except maybe for Pawlenty, who is most likely done.; 8/13/11, 6:27 PM
Erik Robert Nelson said...: And the Iowa straw poll matters ... why, exactly? It's part of the media horse race. Otherwise, it's inconsequential.

And yes, it does help Perry.

As for Bachmann living in the "last century" (whatever that means), it appears that quite a few Americans do as well. A majority? Maybe not. A plurality? Probably. And if a plurality really does live in the "last century," doesn't that raise the question of whether or not they're actually living in the last century? Or does it mean that those making the "last century" claims are ... ignorant of the priorities of the American people? Just wondering.; 8/13/11, 6:27 PM
chickelit said...: The election is still a long ways away in blog years.; 8/13/11, 6:28 PM
J said...: WHat's that Educita the masonic pissant? Time for slander and misrep. as usual eh perp--your meth must have kicked in.

You're the peasant here, little tweeker trailer trash. You'd do well to get offline.; 8/13/11, 6:30 PM
Larry J said...: Can someone please tell me this: how many winners of the Iowa straw poll went on to win the Republican nomination much less the presidency? Because, if the answer isn't a significant number, why should I give a damn about the Iowa straw poll>; 8/13/11, 6:34 PM
Cedarford said...: Unfortunately for Bachmann, Standard and Poors has now clarified that it’s actually people like her, who oppose raising the debt ceiling and aren’t mindful of the consequences of default, that were a primary reason for the downgrade:

A Standard & Poor’s director said for the first time Thursday that one reason the United States lost its triple-A credit rating was because several lawmakers expressed skepticism about the serious consequences of a credit default — a position put forth by some Republicans.
Without specifically mentioning Republicans, S&P senior director Joydeep Mukherji said the stability and effectiveness of American political institutions were undermined by the fact that “people in the political arena were even talking about a potential default,” Mukherji said.
“That a country even has such voices, albeit a minority, is something notable,” he added. “This kind of rhetoric is not common amongst AAA sovereigns.”

Another S&P Rep who spoke to OMB said the discussions were more than the hardcore tea party faction: "Obviously - without the spending and deficits and taking new revenue off the table the discussions would be different. And the recklessness of some politicians not a factor if budgets in America were closer to acceptable parameters. But they are not, and the words reckless and imprudent did arise frequently, and we should say at Moody's as well."; 8/13/11, 6:34 PM
ndspinelli said...: Who gives a shit?? This is like NFL preseason games.; 8/13/11, 6:40 PM
Anonymous said...: Romney will fight in other states, but I'm not seeing it unless Perry runs a bad campaign.; 8/13/11, 6:43 PM
Ambrose said...: Hey Cedarford - Are you sure that S&P isn't talking about our President who stood ready to veto any debt limit increase that did not extend beyond November 2012?; 8/13/11, 6:47 PM
Chip S. said...: several lawmakers expressed skepticism about the serious consequences of a credit default — a position put forth by some Republicans.

Since no one, Republican or Democrat, ever said this, it's pretty clear that either (a) S&P is as incompetent as the Administration says it is, or (b) this guy Mukherji issued this revised statement after getting a huge amount of pressure from...oh, I don't know...somewhere.

What was said by some people was that a failure to raise the debt ceiling still left plenty of revenue for servicing the debt, which everyone agreed was the highest spending priority.; 8/13/11, 6:50 PM
roesch-voltaire said...: Perry Bachmann ticket for sure.; 8/13/11, 6:51 PM
kurt mueller said...: @cedarford -- I heard some cons argue that Obama's August 2 debt ceiling deadline was a false one in that even if the debt ceiling was not raised, the US Gov would continue to have more than enough money to pay its outstanding debt (both current principal and interest) -- which was true -- not to mention social security which Obama demagogued. But I do not recall any Republican politicians expressing skepticism about the consequences of defaulting on US Treasury securities -- who do you have in mind and what did they say? If they did, I agree that was irresponsible.; 8/13/11, 6:51 PM
Chip S. said...: If I were rating Treasurys, I think I'd be a lot more concerned about what this guy said instead of what Bachmann is imagined to have said, but didn't.; 8/13/11, 6:56 PM
Paco Wové said...: "...how many winners of the Iowa straw poll went on to win the Republican nomination much less the presidency?"

O great and powerful Wikipedia, hear my plea...

The answer, to both questions, is: once out of five iterations. (G. W. Bush, 1999); 8/13/11, 6:57 PM
rhhardin said...: All you have to pay is interest, which is fairly small compared to debt.

For the principal you just issue a new bond to pay the old one off. If you were under the debt limit before, you'll be under the debt limit afterwards too.

Which I suppose S&P knows.; 8/13/11, 7:00 PM
Tim said...: Iowa Republicans only help set the race; they don't determine it.

Otherwise, yeah, too bad for Pawlenty.

Who'd have guessed boringly competent doesn't sell in Iowa...?; 8/13/11, 7:00 PM
Tim said...: Blaming Bachmann for S&P downgrading the US's credit rating is like the guy in front of you at the grocery store/gas station whose debit/credit card is declined at checkout blaming the cashier.

It's a losers game.; 8/13/11, 7:03 PM
Paco Wové said...: ...well, actually in 1995 Bob Dole tied with Phil Gramm, and went on to get the nomination. So the Straw Poll is batting .400 for predicting the GOP nominee, and .200 for predicting the eventual president.; 8/13/11, 7:04 PM
Michael K said...: Everyone is happy (e.g., Tina Brown of Newsweek, NPR, PBS, etc.).

How could Nixon have been elected ? No one I know voted for him!; 8/13/11, 7:12 PM
HT said...: I just saw on ABC somethin about voters paying $30 for the privilege of voting for Cong Bachman. Is that right? Goodness.; 8/13/11, 7:15 PM
A. Shmendrik said...: I like it, and I hope she has some success in the primaries. She'd be a great VP nominee.

I love the way the Democrats sent Debbie 'Blabbermouth"-Shultz to Ames for CNN interviews on site. A) Who asked your opinion? and B) you couldn't find a better contrast to Bachmann's image. Ladle it on!; 8/13/11, 7:16 PM
Tim said...: Paco Wové said...

...well, actually in 1995 Bob Dole tied with Phil Gramm, and went on to get the nomination. So the Straw Poll is batting .400 for predicting the GOP nominee, and .200 for predicting the eventual president.

...well, actually, in the six Ames Straw Polls since 1979, only Dole and G.W. Bush have both won and then became the Rep. nominee, for a predicting average of .333 for the nominee, and a "below the Mendoza line" average of .166 for predicting the next president.; 8/13/11, 7:24 PM
Writ Small said...: Says Wikipedia: George H.W. Bush in 1979, Pat Robertson in 1987, Phil Gramm (tied) in 1995, Mitt Romney in 2007, and now Bachmann in 2011.

The Iowa straw poll doesn't always predict who wins Iowa, much less the nomination.

Grain of salt called for.; 8/13/11, 7:34 PM
edutcher said...: It's too early to take anything seriously.

For one thing, Little Zero's foreign policy blunders have yet to bite him, along with the deterioration of the economy.

Wait till the Syrians occupy the American Embassy in Damascus and the inflation from QE3 hits.

PS J sounds like the creep who jammed that horn in Ann's eye yesterday.

About his speed.; 8/13/11, 7:48 PM
Mark said...: Bachmann gets a lot of unfair criticism, but I'm uncomfortable with her SocCon positions, and I'm usually pretty forgiving, considering I firmly believe the Cultural Revolution has already happened, and the Cultural Whigs lost everything. Give them their Dukes and Duchesses in exile.

But Paul is just embarrassing. And I am a libertarian.

Whether I think the people pushing straws in Iowa were representative or not, this is going to increase the toxicity of Republicans in general to the casual Independent voter, making it easier for Obama and the Party of Bloodsucking Fiends to pump up the volume of the Renfield Press.

So yes, this makes Obama more likely to be re-elected in 2012.; 8/13/11, 8:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Is she hairless?

Peter; 8/13/11, 8:02 PM
edutcher said...: Mark said...

Bachmann gets a lot of unfair criticism, but I'm uncomfortable with her SocCon positions, and I'm usually pretty forgiving, considering I firmly believe the Cultural Revolution has already happened, and the Cultural Whigs lost everything. Give them their Dukes and Duchesses in exile.

No exile and no loss. A lot of what the Cultural Revolution may have won is being walked back, given the fact that people seem to be realizing it was a bad idea, promoted by the Lefties to put as many people as possible in a situation where they'd need government assistance (think Little Zero's malfeasance with the economy and Britain's Welfare State), and appear to be pulling back from the abyss as evidenced by a good many polls and attitude changes.

This is why the Libertarians are far more a niche group than they'd like to think.

ironrailsironweights said...

Is she hairless?

One presumes she is as the Good Lord made her, rest assured.; 8/13/11, 8:24 PM
Anonymous said...: There is one shinning in the Ames poll. Michele is a GOP woman. When did the Democratic women get this front stage. When Hillary tried, they went after her. So, this does show that GOP has a potential to be a leading party for change.

But, this will not happen. No vision, no deliverables, no diversity, no leadership, etc. Obama will still win in 2012. It is given. If you want to bet, contact me. I take only cash.; 8/13/11, 8:28 PM
Kirby Olson said...: Romney is going to wait in NH to catch the next round, and Perry will wait in SC to catch that one. Giuliani might as well wait in Florida again to see if the Jewish vote remembers what he did on 9/11 for the Big Apple after Al-Q took a bite out of the city.

Bachmann is the new Palin, perhaps. She's not quite as explosive as Sarah. In a beauty contest, which would win?

I know it's sexist, but still.; 8/13/11, 8:28 PM
viator said...: Probably a good idea to avoid those corn dogs...

ZH; 8/13/11, 8:30 PM
Cedarford said...: Tim said...
Blaming Bachmann for S&P downgrading the US's credit rating is like the guy in front of you at the grocery store/gas station whose debit/credit card is declined at checkout blaming the cashier.

It's a losers game
======================
Your opinion would count if it was about just some jamoke speculating that investors were very concerned about the "let the US government have no funds to force them to more tax cuts and lower spending" zealots.

Unfortunately for you, it was the Director of S&P explaining that Bachmann & Co. were a big factor in the downgrade of America's credit.

And you are absolutely free to say S&P and Moodys (which had similar thinking and decided not to downgrade America at this time) are wrong in their thinking, and that blame on others is more appropriate..; 8/13/11, 8:36 PM
David said...: Of low importance. The Iowa system accentuates the margins.; 8/13/11, 8:41 PM
David said...: Look at it this way.

Take a Democratic straw poll in Madison.

You will learn about Madison, but little else.; 8/13/11, 8:44 PM
Mark said...: No exile and no loss.

When Patrick Joseph "Pat" Buchanan or his ilk can get more than 2% in an election, I will start worrying about your rump Dukes and Duchesses.

Meanwhile, I will focus on getting the government out of everybody's business, and letting society work out how it wants to determine "normal".; 8/13/11, 8:44 PM
edutcher said...: No, Libertarians make a big show about how they want everyone to be "free" to do it their way, but they're often on the side of the Lefties in terms of creating an animalistic society in which there are no rules.

Libertarians are less about freedom than they are about their idea of not being inconvenienced - and it's a damned short-sighted view.

And I have no idea what he means about anyone's "rump Dukes and Duchesses", but I don't think he does, either.; 8/13/11, 8:50 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: This isn't even an NFL preseason game. It's more like a 7 on 7 scrimmage on a Wednesday afternoon.; 8/13/11, 8:59 PM
Big Mike said...: Oh, crap. Now I find myself agreeing with Cedarford.

I'm a hard core fiscal conservative myself, but the balanced budget amendment is a piece of window dressing for chumps and the idea of putting the government into default the way Bachmann and others advocated for, simply to make a political point, defines irresponsibility down to a new low. Bachmann should have been exercising some leadership during the negotiations and helping Boehner and Cantor. Sitting on the sidelines saying "let it all burn down" is not what I'd want to see in a President.

I can't support Bachmann, because to me she will always be a social conservative first and a fiscal conservative second. I want it the other way around.

I can't support Pawlenty -- there's a reason why Reagan introduced the 11th commandment. Really, Pawlenty should have the easiest job of any of the candidates, particularly when one contrasts his administration with the ongoing debacle that is Minnesota under Mark Dayton. But all he seems able to do is take potshots at Bachmann. Congratulations, Tim, we get that you don't much care for Michele Bachmann -- now what, besides that, qualifies you to be President of the United States?

I won't support Romney unless and until he explains what he learned from the Massachusetts healthcare mess, and how he can use what he learned to fix Obamacare. I'd also like to see more fiscal conservatism coming from him -- does he get that money ain't infinite? You'd think so, given his business background, but maybe he's been doing the government two-step so long he's forgotten that.

I'm leery of Perry. I've been to Texas a lot over the years on business trips, and I've been to a number of different cities -- San Antonio, Austin, El Paso, Dallas -- and the Texas Democrats I've met are very sane (most of them, anyway), and particularly so when contrasted with San Francisco Democrats and New York Democrats and even Maryland Democrats. That a Texas Republican governor can deal well with Democrats in his legislature says nothing about his ability to deal with the likes of Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Barney Frank, Chris Van Hollen, and scum like that.

Ron Paul? Puh-leeze. Likewise Santorum.

Cain? He needs political experience, and someone needs to get him smart about foreign affairs.

Sarah Palin? We can cross that bridge if she really joins the race.

So all of the current crop of candidates come with question marks in my mind. But there's one thing that they've all got going for them.

None of them are Barack Obama.; 8/13/11, 9:11 PM
Alex said...: No, Libertarians make a big show about how they want everyone to be "free" to do it their way, but they're often on the side of the Lefties in terms of creating an animalistic society in which there are no rules.

Libertarians are less about freedom than they are about their idea of not being inconvenienced - and it's a damned short-sighted view.

Funny, from my perspective libertarians just want to be left the fuck alone.; 8/13/11, 9:12 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Michelle Bachmann's people send me spam..

I wouldn't mind once in a while.. but its almost daily.; 8/13/11, 9:14 PM
rcocean said...: "For the principal you just issue a new bond to pay the old one off. If you were under the debt limit before, you'll be under the debt limit afterwards too."

That's right, except one day the world is going to ask for a 6% return and not a 2.25% one*. At this particular moment, for many reasons, foreigners are willing buy US treasuries even though the real interest rate is almost zero. That's not going to last.

* and NO I'm not discussing 30yr treasuries.; 8/13/11, 9:15 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Ambrose,

I don't think she will be president, but let's enjoy that her victory will upset a lot of the usual suspects.

That's what I like about our system - the way it's designed to shake up, and shake out, candidates. It's truly brilliant if you watch it closely.

Every so often you hear complaints about why's it got to start in Iowa, or New Hampshire, before a California or whatever get a shot at it, but I like the way it works just fine - because it works.

Even last time:

It reflected our collective madness.; 8/13/11, 9:16 PM
hoop said...: So all of the current crop of candidates come with question marks in my mind

I've wondered on occasion if we've hit the point where we'll never get a truly outstanding presidential candidate ever again. Reagan was the last one who was a no-brainer candidate, but some of that has to be attributed to Carter. But people who are really talented enough to be top-flight presidents are usually too busy doing other more awesome jobs that pay better, don't doom you to a life of Secret Service protection, and don't triple your aging rate.

(Clinton was quite underwhelming as a candidate and is forever indebted to Perot for splitting conservatives, but managed to adapt to a working truce with a GOP Congress and finish better than he started. G.W.Bush was nothing special until the tragedy shifted his priorities into his wheelhouse.); 8/13/11, 9:22 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I agree with Crack.

Sometime down the road, some of the things these so called marginal candidates are saying will not sound crazy.

I liked the new and improved Newt btw.; 8/13/11, 9:27 PM
Known Unknown said...: We now have a GOP person in the front who lives in last century.

Well, in the last century we had a better credit rating.

And we won 3 out of 4 wars. (WWI, WWII, Cold)

And the deficit was under a trillion.

Yeah, the 20th century was awful.; 8/13/11, 9:31 PM
Known Unknown said...: Funny, from my perspective libertarians just want to be left the fuck alone.

Amen.; 8/13/11, 9:32 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: America's Politico,

Everyone is happy (e.g., Tina Brown of Newsweek, NPR, PBS, etc.).

Dude, I don't know who you are but you are SO overplaying your hand,..; 8/13/11, 9:36 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Bart DePalma,

Tea Party candidates (of which I include Santorum) took 4 of the top 5 spots. Welcome to the revolution.

Exactly. The Tea Party Express is justa chuggin' along.

Despite what AP says, official Washington - Left and Right - must be quaking in their boots.; 8/13/11, 9:42 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Oy. At the fair, Bachmann got caught eating a corn dog. It's a HUGE pickle of a corn dog, too. And, unlike a lady ... she didn't nibble on it ... like she was nibbling on a flute.

Not gonna take long, now, to understand why Bachmann's win is being celebrated by Tina Brown. Et al.; 8/13/11, 9:50 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Why would the media quake, Crack?

Bob Dole also won it!

And, then, I remembered! It was Bob Dole who spoke about himself in the 3rd person.

It was Bob Dole who fell into the Mosh Pit.

The year was 1996. Knowing what Bill Clinton's penis was shaped like, when it got erect, must have added winning points to his column.

Win in Iowa. Lose in the general.

Been there before. Alas.; 8/13/11, 9:53 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Larry J,

Can someone please tell me this: how many winners of the Iowa straw poll went on to win the Republican nomination much less the presidency? Because, if the answer isn't a significant number, why should I give a damn about the Iowa straw poll?

Because every state in the Union matters, and Iowa sets the direction for what comes next. You'll notice milquetoast candidates (like Pawlenty) got bumped off, as will those who aren't ready for prime time, like Cain.

What I see is, when this process is finished, we're going to have someone who can go toe-to-toe with anyone - and that's being established in Iowa.; 8/13/11, 9:53 PM
Michael Haz said...: Crucial Iowa straw pool victories were won by Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Dick Gephardt, Tom Harkin, John Kerry and Al Gore.; 8/13/11, 9:56 PM
jr565 said...: Whatever you may say about Pawlenty, Pawlenty is more of a legitimate candidate than Paul ever could be. Yet, thanks to this showing he may drop out early, whereas Paul will be in for at least another go around.
Thanks Paulians for letting this monstrosity loose on us.; 8/13/11, 9:56 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: This tea party thing is really something..

Most of the people I run into are very busy people and yet they make time and meet and do the work.

You wouldn't know it by reading and listening to the MSM, but they are very optimistic about the country and thats what drives them.

I'm hooked.; 8/13/11, 9:57 PM
JAL said...: Despite what AP says, official Washington - Left and Right - must be quaking in their boots.

I'm thinking they still don't believe we exist.

Like we're a figment of someone's imagination.

They have no idea how many of us are furious.

But unlike the brats in Madison, we are waiting. Patiently.; 8/13/11, 9:57 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Tim,

Who'd have guessed boringly competent doesn't sell in Iowa...?

You left out awful fighter as well.

Bachmann ate his lunch the other night,...; 8/13/11, 9:58 PM
jr565 said...: Kirby wrote:
Bachmann is the new Palin, perhaps. She's not quite as explosive as Sarah. In a beauty contest, which would win?

Palin, by a long shot.; 8/13/11, 10:00 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: America's Politico,

If you want to bet, contact me. I take only cash.

I'd bet you any amount of money you want that you're going to lose, but you cut out of here so fast after your last defeat, you can hardly be considered a trustworthy person to make a wager with.

Coward.; 8/13/11, 10:04 PM
Henry said...: @Crack -- Your 9:16. Spot on.

I really dislike Bachmann's moral conservatism. I really like her economic conservatism.

In the White House, a President's economic principles far outweigh their moral ones.

I voted for Bill Clinton. If Bachmann runs against Obama, there's no question who I'd vote for.; 8/13/11, 10:08 PM
edutcher said...: Carol_Herman said...

Oy. At the fair, Bachmann got caught eating a corn dog. It's a HUGE pickle of a corn dog, too. And, unlike a lady ... she didn't nibble on it ... like she was nibbling on a flute.

That's what did in Lurch - his lifted pinkie way of eating a cheese steak in South Philly. Bachmann, who had probably chowed down on the things both in IA and MN, knew how it was done.; 8/13/11, 10:09 PM
Mark said...: Rump Dukes and Duchesses: Pat Buchanan. Rick Santorum. Kathyrn Jean Lopez (not a pol, but definitely in the "in" crowd, vis a vis Social Conservatives). Mike Huckabee.

On the Dem side, Barack Obama and Michelle Obama play the "do right or Mr. Uncle Sam will be very cross with you" card on various personal liberty issues.

Expect in the next 8 years to see the Dems try to pick up the SocCons as one of their beholden "interest" groups. "No God-Botherer Left Behind."; 8/13/11, 10:11 PM
jr565 said...: E.M wrote:
Funny, from my perspective libertarians just want to be left the fuck alone.

Did you ever watch the show Hoarders? That's a good barometer on whether you agree with libertarianism and the idea that noone can get in anyone else's business.
I bet all hoarders are libertarians. just leave them the fuck alone while their house is overrun to the rafters with trash and rat feces, thousands of rats, twenty washing machines and a school bus in the back yard.
Yet, does society have no say in what goes on in that persons house?
If a kid or an injured person has to live in that environment, can society step in and tell the Hoarder to clean his/her fucking house or the kid will be taken away? Can they set limits on how many rats you can have as pets? etc etc. If they come to your house after complaints about a stench and find 500 cats, not to mention the carcasses of dead cats living under trash, can society say if you don't get rid of these cats and clean up the garbage the couty will condemn your house?
That opens up a whole can of worms and laws that have society sticking their nose into peoples business and telling them how to run their household, how many pets they can have, taking their kids away and potentially kicking them out of their own house?
Yet, do hoarders/libertarians not realize they live in a neighborhood with other people?; 8/13/11, 10:15 PM
jr565 said...: Crack Emcee wrote:
I'd bet you any amount of money you want that you're going to lose, but you cut out of here so fast after your last defeat, you can hardly be considered a trustworthy person to make a wager with.

Coward.

I think america's politico is actually pretending to be a democratic consultant, and is in fact playing the part sarcastically as a joke. I could be wrong about this, but his pronunciations are always so over the top they sound like caricatures of what a democratic op might say. At least that's what I'm hoping. Otherwise we're dealing with a real dunderhead.; 8/13/11, 10:20 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Carol_Herman,

Why would the media quake, Crack?

By now (having read all of these posts) it should be clear that anyone who expects Iowa to pick our next president doesn't understand our system. Neither do the people who keep declaring Iowa's not important.

Iowa has set the "tone," if you will:

We will have a Tea Party candidate when this is over.

And if that's the case, Carol, then the media's gonna have to hit the reset button because we know what they tried to do to us. (Sarah's already not talking to most of them.) This IS a revolution, and it won't just be limited to the obvious,...; 8/13/11, 10:21 PM
Mark said...: JR, did it ever occur to you that Government taking on the responsibilities that neighbors and small communities have to each other will decrease the bonds between neighbors, thereby facilitating the aberrations you trot out?

Big Government makes it easy to be an outrider. For some that's a plus.; 8/13/11, 10:28 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: Mark,

JR, did it ever occur to you that Government taking on the responsibilities that neighbors and small communities have to each other will decrease the bonds between neighbors, thereby facilitating the aberrations you trot out?

Big Government makes it easy to be an outrider. For some that's a plus.

Yeah, like English looters,...; 8/13/11, 10:32 PM
jr565 said...: E.M. Davis wrote:
And we won 3 out of 4 wars. (WWI, WWII, Cold)

And how many of those wars would Paul and the Paulians have supported? If libertarians, or Paulians are going to take the isolationist tact they would probably have proposed trading with the Nazis like the Neville chamberlains of the world. And how is a cold war different than holding Iran accountable for their nukes?

Reagan had the balls to call the Commies an evil empire and implemented Star Wars to bankrupt them. He wasn't a live and let live guy who thought Russia should get whatever they wanted and who are we to say what other countries should do, we should mind our own business. And compare the money we spent on the cold war versus on Iraq/Afghanistan. THose are puny wars compared to our military expenditures to win the cold war.; 8/13/11, 10:33 PM
Bart DePalma said...: America's Politico said...

Obama will still win in 2012. It is given. If you want to bet, contact me. I take only cash.

Given the wager, I am more interested in whether and how you will pay off.; 8/13/11, 10:34 PM
chuck b. said...: Rick Perry dissed your bitch-ass straw poll, Iowa! Suck Texas dick, bitches!

Just kidding.; 8/13/11, 10:36 PM
Anonymous said...: I think america's politico is actually pretending to be a democratic consultant, and is in fact playing the part sarcastically as a joke.

No way!; 8/13/11, 10:39 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Crack,

I'm not so sure the media hits "reset" buttons. They've attacked people they don't like ... since John Adams attacked Thomas Jefferson.

What "may" have changed ... and I haven't entirely thought this through ... is that I came up thinking intelligent people commented about the news and made me laugh.

For me? It was Mort Sahl.

For my parents? Will Rogers.

Stuff that kept politicians "honest." (Well behaved?)

We're past that, now.

I read someplace ... and I haven't finished reading it ... How the AGE OF REASON came about when the printing presses were born. And, words started to flow off of them. Having clout with their readers. As reputations grew and grew.

Sorry this is so half-baked.

But "opinions" now are saved by the Internet. If all we had was the press it would be terrible.

America's big enough to contain all these different places. But in Iowa ... where Bob Dole won ... I remember he was about the worst choice the republican party could make.

Shouldn't Bill Clinton have been easy to beat?

Up ahead, is Obama gonna get his second term the same way?

Over at a site called Just One Minute ... (JOM) ... somebody already put up a photo ... perhaps photoshopped ... That has Bachmann opening her mouth really wide ... To take in the tip of a HUGE, gigantic corn dog. (Not the little pups they sell at my mall.)

And, she wasn't trained like the Queen of England has been trained! The queen would'a been polite ... and turned the penis sideways. IF she had to do anything with her mouth? Her lips would'a been closed.

So, here we go. The merry-go-round has started ... It's not really a ride that goes anywhere, either.

I am so unimpressed with the roll-out so far ... of what should be an important presidential election ... that I cannot, now, imagine anyone selected that could ace this thing.

And, do politics justice.; 8/13/11, 10:43 PM
Jason said...: I have no problems with Michelle Bachmann winning the Iowa straw poll. She's smarter than most give her credit for, and she drives the left crazy because she is a strong CONSERVATIVE woman...remember, strong women are only supposed to be liberals. Which is why Sarah Palin is hated so much by the left as well.

That being said, if Rick Perry stays on message like he did today with his speech announcing his candidacy, I think he will be very formidable.

Lets also remember that there is a long, long, long, long way to go in this presidential race. Lots can happen between now and the convention.; 8/13/11, 10:46 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Crack,

The book is Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death. (Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business.) It was published in 1985. And, I gotta finish another book, before I dig into this one.

I know the Internet is going to save us. I just don't know how.

It's like being happy eBay is there kicking the shit out of the NY Times.; 8/13/11, 10:48 PM
Peter Hoh said...: The Iowa straw poll is pretty good at winnowing the field.

A win could have given someone like Gingrich or Santorum a boost. As it stands, they will have an increasingly hard time selling their campaign to donors.

As will Pawlenty. He's been marginalized by this result, but I don't think he'll bow out. From here out, he's campaigning for V.P. (and like Charlie Brown, he ain't getting it this time around, either.)

Ron Paul has a core of true believers who will fund him no matter how unlikely it is that he'll win the nomination.; 8/13/11, 10:56 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Crack,

I've never seen a corn dog that size! If this had been handed to Trump,he'd have asked for a plate. A knife and fork. And, about a dozen napkins.

I think it's the handshaking business on one hand. The money he makes from the Apprentice, on the other, that keeps Trump out of the run.

A candidate with momentum can blow through this country! I don't think the old ... enter a restaurant ... and shake everybody's hand ... proves you can actually run the country.

Candidates have to do some mighty funny stuff ... that right off the top ... looks like disqualifiers.

And, with Michelle Bachmann. I remember her running on stage ... at the same moment Paul Ryan (??) came out to deliver the GOP response to Obama's SOTU speech.

Why did she do that? She ran into the spotlight without giving a crap to the people backstage.

I think it's only a matter of time, now, before the long knife comes out.

It's not a reset button.; 8/13/11, 10:58 PM
jr565 said...: I'll admit to knowing little about Rick Perry. However, when watching him speak he came across as inauthentic and prone to speaking in generalities. Plus he seemed to be a littlel uncomfortable on the public stage. Now this may be initial jitters and awkwardness that will work it's way out as the campaign gets going, but right now he's not my top choice.; 8/13/11, 10:58 PM
Jason said...: As will Pawlenty. He's been marginalized by this result, but I don't think he'll bow out. From here out, he's campaigning for V.P.

This.

But I do think he is probably the clubhouse favorite for the spot, until/if Paul Ryan decides he wants to be on the ticket. As far as VP goes, any list starts with him, and he should be the GOP VP nominee if he wants it, no matter who wins the nomination...unless Ryan changes his mind and runs for president himself, and he would automatically vault to the top of the list of GOP favorites.

Perhaps its a pipe dream, but I am still hoping beyond hope that Paul Ryan jumps in and runs.; 8/13/11, 11:03 PM
Tim said...: Crack,

"You left out awful fighter as well.

Bachmann ate his lunch the other night,..."

Concur.

We need no wimps to take on the Dali-Obama. Close to 95% of the dopes who voted for him in '08 are too stupid to do anything else; we'll need a fighter to ensure he doesn't get any more than that, or the last four years will look like a prelude to complete disaster (yes, it could get worse. Much worse).; 8/13/11, 11:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Paul : Republicans :: Kucinich : Republicans.

Exactly. And I mean exactly.; 8/13/11, 11:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Paul : Republicans :: Kucinich : Democrats.

Well. Fucked that up pretty good. But now it's right, and you knew what I meant.; 8/13/11, 11:36 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/14/11, 12:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Both Bachmann and Paul voted "no" on the recent debt-ceiling bill.

They resisted Boehner's call to fall into line and compromise and keep the devaluate-and-spend party going.

But Establishment Republicans like Boehner have been partying like it's 1999... since 1999!

I wonder if Boehner is enjoying his August vacation? He's told his organization to take the whole month off, you know... I guess they patted themselves on the back for a job well done as they headed out the doors.

I talked to Darrell Issa's staff the other day and was told that Issa and other senior Republican congresspeople are privately demanding that Boehner and Cantor call the Congress back to work 'cuz, ya' know, they have stuffz to do and all that. But Boehner and Cantor are refusing to...

Meanwhile, Bernanke is getting ready to launch QE3-- a giant cruise ship made of $100 bills. First port of call? Bank of America! Conveniently for Boehner and Cantor, Bernanke's gonna do it while Congress is visiting Wally World or whatever and so Congress will have no say in it. A fait accompli!

If Bachmann and Paul are anything, they are anti-Boehner. They are anti-Obama too 'cuz they're fucking Republicans after all... but being anti-Boehner and anti-all-that-he-represents is what allowed them to both pull way ahead of the pack in this poll.; 8/14/11, 12:03 AM
Carol_Herman said...: CHAUNCEY THE GARDENER!

Bingo.

That explains how obama's gonna get the majority of the votes.

I knew it could be easy.

But Chauncey just reflected everyman. What republican candidate can do that?; 8/14/11, 12:06 AM
Steven said...: Given the cost of debt service versus the government's regular income, the only risk of default came from the possibility that the President would ignore his responsibility to pay the debt first, and instead spend the money elsewhere. To claim Tea Party intransigence risked a default, then, you must believe that the President is a reckless madman who would destroy the country in order to fulfill liberal spending priorities. And if you believe that, I can think of no way that the Tea Party can be construed as a bigger risk to the credit of the United States than having a President who is a reckless madman.

Now, alternatively, you can believe the forced austerity caused by a failure to raise the debt ceiling would be disastrous, and the Tea Party was the main driver of the risk of that happening. And I'd agree with you. But someone who believed that wouldn't be using the word "default", because no default was risked.

So either the country was risking default, and the President is to blame, or the Tea Party was risking causing a disaster, but default was not a possibility. They're logically exclusive possibilities given the financial facts of the situation.; 8/14/11, 12:20 AM
Freder Frederson said...: Given the cost of debt service versus the government's regular income, the only risk of default came from the possibility that the President would ignore his responsibility to pay the debt first, and instead spend the money elsewhere.

You mean elsewhere like defense contracts, Federal prisons, the FAA, unemployment insurance? For all the bluster of Bachmann and her idiot tea party supporters, none of them actually articulated how they would cut federal spending 44% or so without destroying the economy and literally putting peoples' lives at risk.

Bachmann, is a reckless ideologue who regularly lies to support her irrational policies. Either that or she is profoundly stupid. I suspect both, she is a rare combination of both evil and stupid.; 8/14/11, 3:11 AM
Anonymous said...: a rare combination of both evil and stupid

Well, it is one step up from Obama, but I agree: America can do better.; 8/14/11, 3:30 AM
Col Mustard said...: Funny, from my perspective libertarians just want to be left the fuck alone.

Libertarians are just passive anarchists - or kids who demand parents never enter their rooms. Fuck 'em. And fuck their adoring passive parents.

The GOP needs to tell Ron Paul to just "GO AWAY". Let him run as a Dem or an "other". He and Kucinich could argue about who's what on the ticket. You worry about Obama gutting DoD? Seriously.

I like candidates who aren't ashamed to acknowledge religious values but two is too many - forget a Perry/Bachman ticket.

Pawlenty has a good story. Why he clouds it by bashing Bachman is a mystery. Kind of a Moby Dick thing. And, he needs to buy a couple of suits that fit him. Suits that are a size too big make you look "small".

Don't understand the dissin' of Santorum. If you don't want "conservative" just say so.

The GOP field is a long way from fully formed, IMO. I think we'll know more by 1 October.

While they may not declare for the top job, I believe we will (and should) hear more from Rudy, Bolton, Rubio, Ryan, Palin and, even, Jindal. Maybe others.

Frankly, if the GOP nominates someone half-way credible, the veep pick could be a difference-maker. I look forward to the "debates".; 8/14/11, 4:42 AM
Roger J. said...: what Jason said above; 8/14/11, 5:30 AM
Roger J. said...: oops--Jason @ 10:46; 8/14/11, 5:32 AM
Scott said...: The Iowa caucuses are only important because normally, political reporters have NOTHING interesting to report in August. It gives the MSM a fun junket to the Iowa State Fair, and the GOP candidates get massive and somewhat sympathetic media exposure at very low cost.

If the Fascistcrats didn't own the MSM outright, they would be doing the same thing. Except that they would be in Vermont.; 8/14/11, 7:14 AM
AllenS said...: Wow, check this out:

@jaketapper on August 14, 2011 @8:56 am EDT RetweetGov Pawlenty just told supporters on a conf call that he'll announce on an exclusive interview on ABC's This Week that he's dropping out.; 8/14/11, 8:20 AM
jr565 said...: Nice (that Pawlenty is dropping out). Would be nicer if Ron Paul dropped out. Please take your ball and go home Ron paul.; 8/14/11, 11:25 AM
sorepaw said...: There's nothing Tea Party about Santorum.

He's a genuine suppressive theocrat.

I'd like to see Gingrich and Santorum drop out.

And Romney should join them.; 8/15/11, 12:49 PM