The proposed maps, which would take effect for the fall 2012 elections, would make three state Senate seats in southeastern Wisconsin dramatically more Republican and help the re-election bid of GOP freshman U.S. Rep. Sean Duffy of Ashland....And "a huge power grab" is what your party wants. Here's Erpenbach's ex-brother-in-law Russ Feingold exhorting the protesters in Madison last month:
Democrats decried the maps as partisan and called it insulting to hold the vote on the same day Sen. Dave Hansen (D-Green Bay) faced a recall election and just weeks before eight other senators will do the same.
"This is a huge power grab by a party that's worried about losing the majority in a couple of weeks," said Sen. Jon Erpenbach (D-Middleton).
"This game's not over until we win."
Posts
113 comments:
Faux outrage is so passe. It is the new false racism.
Lies. Just words. Just phrases.
Trey
Please show historical evidence where the Dems, who have had control of the Senate, have done the same thing rather than just claiming this is what they would do falling into the usual political discourse of the day.
The last 3 times (re: 30 years)the courts have decided the lines.
Seems like a better system to me overall.
I'd like to say someone would take the highground and not do this, but that seems mighty unlikely. Why give either side the chance?
roesch-voltaire pages Dr. Pangloss.
but, without question, Democrats in the same position would do the same thing
Abso-floggin-lutely they would and have.
Don't you guys think we could get rational voters to agree to a countrywide ban on redistricting? It's horribly corrupt and, to this lowly observer at least, represents among the worst our system has to offer.
Set it 10-12 years in the future so it doesn't affect this cycle or the next and base it completely along current county lines with ironclad prevents to monkey with those lines leading up to the effective date.
Lies. Just words. Just phrases.
Words are wind.
This is just more drama queen bullshit from Democrats who have no problem telling other people how to live and seek the absolute power to do so.
There are cries of outrage, of course, but, without question, Democrats in the same position would do the same thing.
That's a pretty handy excuse to keep trotting out. Funny that the last bill Republicans will probably pass is a vote of no confidence. They know they are fucked.
To the victor go the spoils
Why does the words "I won" pop in my mind after reading the GOP redistricting WI to their advantage?
oh yeah,
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/01/23/obama-to-gop-i-won/
@roesh-voltaire, where should we start? Tammany Hall? The Chicago machine, to which the Democrat senators of Wisconsin ran when faced with a vote whose outcome they did not like? Wisconsin has been under the thumb of the Democrat machine for so long that normal politics looks strange to you.
Grow up.
No high road for you!
With apologies to Waylon Jennings:
♫ Let's raise them Erpenbach taxes with wailin' and Willie and the boys,
This successful life we're livin' got us fueding
like the Hatfield and McCoys
Between Hank Williams pain songs, garage mahal's train songs
and blue eyes cryin' in the rain,* just pass them Erpenbach taxes
ain't nobody feelin' no pain ♫
____________
*obscure blues reference
So if the Government employees and Union twits don't get their way in the recall elections, can we expect more screaming idiots, swastikas, death threats, occupations, etc.? And if so, will they be dispersed throughout the districts or again concentrated in the Capitol?
Damn. I'm still in the third.
Do the new districts resemble hands choking a neck?
Now that would be brazen of the Repubs.
The Repubs are flaunting ballsy conduct for sure.
Looks to me like the Repubs are the winners.
I believe that we are discussing politics in Wisconsin and not Chicago so what is your point?
garage, the "excuse" is so handy because it's obvious truth.
When politicians redistrict they do it to favor their party. Always have, always will. What planet are you and roesch living on? Oh yeah, the planet where Democrats always act selflessly for the greater good and so don't need to be bound by rules like lowly Republicans.
All you guys got to do is vote .. then pay the damned taxes you voted for. It really is all about voting. If you win big, they can't cheat.
Of course if you are for higher taxes, you could just pay more voluntarily. Unfortunately, the other side does not have the option to just do what they believe in - pay less tax. Use your freedom and pay the extra. It's the principle of the thing.
Kind of like the whole Murdoch thing.
If it was NYTimes we would be furious.
But it is not so it is a total non issue.
@roesh-voltaire, based on where your Democrat senators headed off to when they decided not to work for a living, Wisconsin Democrat politics are Chicago politics.
People are known by the company they keep.
What Big Mike said - besides "We won", get over it - If it is good enough for the President to say "I Won", who are we to go against his teachings.
"Still, other Democrats echoed the sentiment. As he left the White House, House Majority Whip James Clyburn of South Carolina was asked about Republican complaints that Democrats aren’t listening to what their GOP colleagues have to say. “We’re responding to the American people,” he said. “The American people didn’t listen to them too well during the election.”
I believe that we are discussing politics in Wisconsin and not Chicago so what is your point?
The point is stop talking about the topic at hand! Nevermind the fact that one of the Dem senators who left, won by 38% last night.
U want to see gerrymandered?
Wait until IL's final map comes out.
We've lost 2 R seats.
Shouldn't that D won by that amount in that district?
but, without question, Democrats in the same position would do the same thing.
I do not recall that happening in the past in Wisconsin.
32 points, sorry.
I understand that, in order to withstand scrutiny by the WI Supreme Court, they included a reference to Rod McKuen's Listen to The Warm:
"I'm not sure what it means.
Why we cannot shake the old loves from our minds.
It must be that we build on memory
and make them more than what they were.
And is the manufacture
just a safe device for closing up the wall?"
Wow, man.
@Pogo:
That was deep, man
Pogo for Chief Justice!
This is standard Demo tactics. They are much happier when they are doing this stuff to the Rs, rather than having it done to them.
Dose of Sanity said...
The last 3 times (re: 30 years)the courts have decided the lines.
Seems like a better system to me overall.
And how many times were the Demos in charge?
The only fair and non-corrupt way to do it is by a simple formula utilizing latitude and longitude. Anything else will get corrupted somehow - the stakes are too high.
I would suggest that you divide the population by the number of seats. Then move the district line parallel from the border as a straight line until you capture that number of constituents. Then repeat across the state. Why would anybody be against doing something like that where nobody can cheat?
Answer: Because they want to cheat.
It's been the standard practice since 1810.
Then it should real easy to find that in Wisconsin. Let us know what you find.
"Democratic State Sen. Dave Hansen Wins First Wisconsin Recall Election"
A lot of "firsts" this year. Hiding out of state to block votes, court orders to block legislation, recounts with &k margins, massive recalls.
And you want to cry "not fair" about this redistricting.
Suck it.
Why would anybody be against doing something like that where nobody can cheat?
The US Supreme Court would be against it, on the grounds that it would reduce the number of "minority" Congressional seats. Although everybody likes to blame state legislatures for gerrymandering, the practice is mandated by the feds.
Or has there been one conservative editorial in the state endorsing the redistricting plan?
I enjoyed, and found informative, this redistricting game.
politics in Wisconsin and not Chicago so what is your point?
And all that cheating by Dems happened on Tuesday, while today is Wednesday. So what is your point?
/s
Democrats do it.
The Republicans are uniquely awful.
Please show historical evidence where the Dems, who have had control of the Senate, have done the same thing rather than just claiming this is what they would do falling into the usual political discourse of the day.
I can see no one has shown any evidence.
The Repub plan really doesn't look that drastic to me. Illinois' (Democratic) plan is much more gerrymandered, and Wisconsin could've gone with something more radical like this Democrat's proposal (which I actually like, because it get's Eau Claire out of Kind's district).
I can see no one has shown any evidence of Dems doing this on Wednesday
/fixed
And really, we're supposed to pretend that the Fleebaggers wouldn't gerrymand Republicans out of office?
I've got a bridge for you alongside some oceanfront property in Arizona...
flenser said...
Why would anybody be against doing something like that where nobody can cheat?
The US Supreme Court would be against it, on the grounds that it would reduce the number of "minority" Congressional seats. Although everybody likes to blame state legislatures for gerrymandering, the practice is mandated by the feds.
7/20/11 11:05 AM
Its not enough to have individual rights but now we must group voting rights. This will end badly.
The part of roesch-voltaire will now be played by Claude Raines.
If your going to hang, hang for a really great crime.
The WI republicans ought to man up and go all the way.
Not just redistricting but go all the way and ban civil service unions outright at the state and local level and collective bargaining as well. Then go through the wish list and go for broke. If they were to pul that off it would be a great example for republicans everywhere to man up and start rolling back progressive nonsense.
ScottM. No, we should not ban redistricting until we get it the way we like it. Then ban it. Democrats have controlled that ugly process for decades here in the sweet sunny south and it is now, as they say, our turn.
Jeremy. 9.2% unemployment
roesch-voltaire said...
Please show historical evidence where the Dems, who have had control of the Senate, have done the same thing rather than just claiming this is what they would do falling into the usual political discourse of the day.
What 'same thing' are you asking us to show? Nobody has shown any evidence that the Republicans have done anything other than redistrict as they saw fit, within the limits of the law. Just as Democrats have done when they had the chance.
Note, for example, that the Democrats redistricted in 1983, even though the courts had already redistricted in 1981 based on the 1980 census. The Democrats had the right to do that ( stated explicitly in the court redistricting plan ) but they did not need to, since the court plan met all legal requirements. The Democrats did so then purely for partisan advantage.
I'd put all the Democrats in one district and watch the fight.
Nothing like Democrate dog-eat-dog fights. Why that might make UFC night!
Russ Feingold can't get enough votes to win! He's finished!
What's he gonna run for? Dog catcher? Wouldn't that be a come-down from once having been a senator?
The only thing that remains "unknown" is if there's gonna be an opening of a wider margin ... when elections roll around?
You know there's no gravy train left to deliver "da goods" to da "locals" ... because the Feds ran out of other people's money.
Maybe, "union-istas" will have to visit greece ... to get the "old time feeling" running inside their veins?
Maybe, "union-istas" will have to visit greece ... to get the "old time feeling" running inside their veins?
Wasn't Hillary out praising Greece for it's economic leadership a couple days back? I only saw it on a red-meat source and couldn't readily find a more objective source. Then I spotted a squirrel and promptly forgot about until just n
I personally want redistricting to be done by software*, such that it produces compact similar-population districts such that nobody ever has a safe district (and within that primary constraint, try to follow existing political or geographic/climatic boundaries to maximize common-interests for representative purposes).
Naturally, no party wants that, because it would make them work for power.
(* With public source code, published as an archive immediately before being compiled and run in the presence of both parties and independent auditors, god damn it.
And then voided and re-run if any Shenanigans are discovered.)
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by smugness, well-fed hysterical beshorted,
dragging themselves through the white streets at midday looking for an anger fix,
pinheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to THE
UNION in the machinery of fright…
"Howler" by Garage Mahal
I, for one, am enjoying listening to the Democrats' caterwauling. After everything they've put this state through since Walker was elected (to say nothing of what they put this state through over the last decade), I want to see them utterly humiliated and defeated. I figure it's not long before the Democratic Party disappears altogether, to be replaced by something a bit more representative of their constituencies: The Communist Party USA.
As a proud Hoosier, can't say I care about these recalls. If cheeseheads want higher taxes so teachers get better pay and benefits while enjoying summer vacation, who am I to complain.
I'm not sure what the excuse has been for any courts to intervene in Wisconsin. The Voting Rights Act applies to the former Jim Crow States...
The courts have intervened in Wisconsin bacause the census showed population changes which cause the current districts to be too unequal in population, but the government fails to pass a redistricting plan ( generally due to Governor and legislature being of different parties ).
Garage is a complete fool
Didn't find anything eh? Didn't think so. You have no idea how redistricting has been carried out in this state. SO that would make you the fool.
SO that would make you the fool.
Shouldn't the emPHAsis be on "that" or "you"?
garage mahal said...
Didn't find anything eh?
What is it that we are supposed to be looking for? What is it that you think the Republicans have done?
It is so funny that the dems here claim Althouse's prediction is wrong.
So funny.
and sorry, I really don't think the GOP is screwed at all. If you live in Madison, perhaps it appears that way, but most of the state is furious with democrats. Their behavior is desperate and ugly. It's not how one acts when confident they will win the future. It's how a political party acts when it's imploding.
2010 was no fluke.
I was on vacation all last week and spent some quality time at the pool honing my tan. Lots of hot moms hanging out there. If only I had gone into teaching I could be spending my summers oogling cougers while their husbands were working to pay my salary.
Maybe in the next life.
I notice that garage thinks he has all these "smoking guns" on the GOP. If only he could alert the body politic to them, then the GOP would be finished forever!
In 1992 the courts had to come up with a redistricting plan. They asked for, and recieved, various plans from the parties involved, including from Prosser for the Republicans, and from the Democrat controlled legislature. The court found both of those plans 'bear the marks of their partisan origins'. In other words, the Democrats submitted a plan that was to their partisan advantage, even in a scenario where they had reason to believe their plan could be rejected in favor of their opponent's plan if theirs was considered too partisan.
From PROSSER v. ELECTIONS BD.
After considering the plans, we have decided to retract our threat to choose the "best" no matter how bad it was. The best plans were Prosser IIIA and the legislative plan, and both bear the marks of their partisan origins. We have decided to formulate our own plan, which combines the best features of the two best plans.
But of course, if the Democrats had a chance to redistrict without a court looking over their shoulder, then their plan would be non-partisan. /s
Excellent news. I hope the Republicans use every underhanded method that the Democrats have ever used in the past. I want them to seize power from the Democrats and keep it permanently, by any legal means. In the age of Alinsky, he who believes that Democrats are anything less than his mortal enemy is a fool. Crush them like bugs.
Crush them like bugs.
Wouldn't it be ironic if the ultimate failure of the multi-culti crowd was the staggering and debilitating balkanizing of the American people along various tribal lines?
...oh, wait...
@garbage: "Nevermind the fact that one of the Dem senators who left, won by 38% last night."
That's not the point. The point is to bleed money from the Democratic Party as a whole and compromise their ability to mount a strong campaign in the general elections that matter.
Alinsky rule #8: Keep the pressure on constantly.
Wisconsin's legislature, he wants to believe, has never in its entire history every gerrymandered.
Wisconsin, to my knowledge, has never drawn up the maps in private, behind closed doors, without any public input or input from the minority party, releasing them late on a Friday afternoon.
It has never drawn up maps before local municipalities had finished redrawing their wards using logical census data, thereby wasting months of work. There was actually a law they were breaking doing this. No problem: Enact a new law voiding the old one.
Everybody in the state knows it, nobody is fooled at what the GOP is doing. Can the GOP do this? Yes. Legal? Remains to be seen. It will certainly be challenged. These Republicans are so bad, so unpopular, I don't think even their maps will save them.
These Republicans are so bad, so unpopular, I don't think even their maps will save them.
Will they burn in their tanks?
To claim the Dems would also redistrict the State in this unprecedented manner is reckless and has no foundation in truth. Never before has either party re-districted the state prior to the cities re-doing their wards.
Let me repeat that fact once again, 'cause you seem to want to keep it buried: NO PARTY HAS EVER RE-DISTRICED THE STATE BEFORE THE CITIES DID THEIR WARDS. This isn't just another case of "gerrymandering"; it goes waaaay beyond that.
What the WiRepublicans are doing has never happened before in our state; to excuse it with "Well, the other guys would probably do it as well" is childish enough, but the way you qualify your statement ("without question")shows that you are only interested in fueling the flames rather than having an actual&real discussion about the issues facing us.
Shame on you, Ann. And shame on all your commentators who take your word as The Truth without bothering to see for themselves if you actually know what you're talking about...which, in this case, you don't.
That's not the point. The point is to bleed money from the Democratic Party as a whole and compromise their ability to mount a strong campaign in the general elections that matter.
Exactly. Republican ideas are about as popular as herpes, and you certainly can't win on policy, so you need to cheat and rig elections in your favor. Thanks for being honest.
Never before has either party re-districted the state prior to the cities re-doing their wards.
Um, so what? I certainly understand that the Democrats want to delay the redistricting in the hopes that they can gain enough power to stop the Republicans from redistricting. But that doesn't mean that what the Republicans are doing is wrong.
It's certainly no more unprecedented than the Democrats fleeing the state to avoid a vote. Did you condem that too, or is your outrage selective?
Never before has either party attempted multiple recalls to try to flip the senate before the other party could redistrict. Maybe we should be outraged over that.
There was actually a law they were breaking doing this. No problem: Enact a new law voiding the old one.
Really?!? What fucking moron gave the legislature the power to enact laws? I hope they got Judge Sumi's permission first.
*facepalm*
Elephants to Dims: EAT YOUR LIVERS!
BWAAHAHAHAHAhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Um, so what? I certainly understand that the Democrats want to delay the redistricting in the hopes that they can gain enough power to stop the Republicans from redistricting.
You have it backwards. Normal redistricting wouldn't occur for another year from now. It shows just how scared the GOP is of the recalls.
Really?!? What fucking moron gave the legislature the power to enact laws? I hope they got Judge Sumi's permission first.
The legislature is barred, by law, to draw up maps before local governments have drawn their own. For good reason. To prevent exactly what is happening - communities being carved up for pure partisan political purposes - and to ensure communities with shared history and needs are represented.
Wisconsin, to my knowledge, has ALWAYS drawn up the maps in private, behind closed doors, without any public input or input from the minority party,
FTFY
In the past, each party hired its own lawyers, met behind closed doors, hammered out a politically advantageous redistricting, and then presented it in the legislature. Because political power has been split between houses or legislature/governor during past redistricting attempts, reconciliation of the plans has failed and been left to the courts. Your notion that redistricting was apolitical in the past is naive.
As to the "before ward lines were drawn!!11!!!!" argument... yawn.
The legislature is barred, by law, to draw up maps before local governments have drawn their own. For good reason. To prevent exactly what is happening - communities being carved up for pure partisan political purposes - and to ensure communities with shared history and needs are represented.
Bullshit, and you know it. Redistricting done by either political party always involves communities being carved up for pure partisan political purposes. And it is done just as much at the local level as at the state level. Communities with shared history and needs are represented only to the extent that it does not conflict with the partisan purposes of the party doing the redistricting.
The state doing its redistricting first will have no measurable effect on such things.
As to the "before ward lines were drawn!!11!!!!" argument... yawn.
So "fuck the historical processes and the rule of law".
Professor Rick Esenberg has a good take on the legality of the redistricting plan.
But seriously, setting partisanship aside, wouldn't it be so much better for Wisconsin and for the country if the Republicans ran things for the next forty years or so? Nobody can deny how nice it will be to have grownups in charge. Democrats should set their bitterness aside and prepare to enjoy the fruits of good government for the remainder of their humdrum lives.
o "fuck the historical processes and the rule of law".
Yeah...I think that's what the fleabaggers were chanting when they split the state to avoid those very things.
hope the Republicans use every underhanded method that the Democrats have ever used in the past. I want them to seize power from the Democrats and keep it permanently, by any legal means. In the age of Alinsky, he who believes that Democrats are anything less than his mortal enemy is a fool. Crush them like bugs.
This.
We haven't forgotten Florida 2000 where the Dems almost got away with stealing the election.
Old spin: Local control!
New spin: Alinksky!
The rule of law?!? Don't flatter politicians like that. The reason ward lines were drawn first in the past was not for unicorn and rainbow harmonization of "shared history", but so that local politicians had the first shake at politically motivated mapping. Now, due to recall induced exigency, they have reason to change that process.
So what about it, GM? How do you suppose the fleabagging respected legislative tradition and rule of law?
The rule of law?!? Don't flatter politicians like that.
The rule of law and this current crop of craven GOP'ers in the same sentence sounds pretty silly don't it.
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...
Professor Rick Esenberg has a good take on the legality of the redistricting plan.
No poem? Hack.
Craven, GM?
Seriously? In light of the fleabagging, how can you level that charge at anyone on the other side of the isle?
garage mahal: "...and to ensure communities with shared history and needs are represented."
LOL If you are familiar with the communities in Roberta Darling's current district you'll know what a steaming pile this is.
SENATE DISTRICT 8
Ooops corrected Senate 8 Map
Oh thats rich, a Democrat whining about the rule of law.
"I won"
suck it down bitches.
"sorepaw said...
Darling's district
sure doesn't qualify as "compact."
And it surely does not reflect communities with "shared history and needs." Shorewood is an urban "mini Madison". Germantown and Thiensville is suburban/rural. They share nothing...except a Senator. It used to be a strong Dem district, but with suburban growth leans GOP a wee bit.
Consider this truism garage: EVERY new law makes something that was previously illegal legal (or if previously illegal, legal).
So to point out that redistricting before drawing ward lines was "illegal" BEFORE THE LAW CHANGED is meaningless now.
Lots of cities are done redistricting. I know my city had 60 days by statute to get it done and it got it done. Some cities like Milwaukee are playing their own partisan games to gerrymander their aldermen in or out. Why should the state wait on that? This is another made-up issue.
I think the Republicans simply had to seize the initiative on this. After all, the Democrats are so bad at reading maps that they think McHenry County, Illinois, is part of Wisconsin.
TosaGuy said...
I know my city had 60 days by statute to get it done and it got it done.
Now if they could get the goddamn street fixed on 70th just south of Lloyd... :-/
I paid $32.67 for a XBOX 360 and my mom got a 17 inch Toshiba laptop for $94.83 being delivered to our house tomorrow by FedEX. I will never again pay expensive retail prices at stores. I even sold a 46 inch HDTV to my boss for $650 and it only cost me $52.78 to get. Here is the website we using to get all this stuff, BetaOffer.com
"Crush them like bugs"
It is easier to hate when you dehumanize the people you disagree with, isn't it?
@purplepenguin:
It is easier to hate when you dehumanize the people you disagree with, isn't it?
Why, yes. Yes, it is. Please see: McHitlerburton, Chimpy.
Thank you for playing.
"Please see: McHitlerburton, Chimpy."
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with that comment.
If you claim I said those names, then you're flat-out wrong.
If you are of the belief I didn't call out the haters who equated Bush to Hitler and/or a monkey, then you're mistaken.
If you are saying that two wrongs make a right, then you're childish.
Do you even know what your response was supposed to mean, or was it just some sort of knee-jerk reflex? Please clarify, if you can.
purplepenquin said...
It is easier to hate when you dehumanize the people you disagree with, isn't it?
Yes. I find it easiest to hate them when I picture them as colorful, flightless birds.
:)
purple penguin: If you are of the belief I didn't call out the haters who equated Bush to Hitler and/or a monkey, then you're mistaken.
Yah right. Prove it...
Sorry Fen, but I can't find the posts from several years ago when Bush was president, and I surely can't "prove" convos I've had with people in the streets....but will you settle for a post where I am agreeing with someone else that it is wrong/improper to compare Walker to Hitler?
http://tiny.cc/9a0yo
Here is another older post that is somewhat relevant as well:
http://tiny.cc/j0vhb
Hopefully this will help overcome your prejudiced attitude towards moi.
*tips hat politely*
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