A pliant press swallows the White House story line: the great compromiser (“clearly exasperated,” sympathized a Post news story) being stymied by Republican “intransigence” (the noun actually used in another front-page Post news story to describe the Republican position on taxes).It's one of the cards in his hand as he dares you to call his bluff.
July 15, 2011
Krauthammer is irked that Obama's "Olympian above-the-fray no-politics-here pose is succeeding."
Well, yes:
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273 comments:
1 – 200 of 273 Newer› Newest»But if Obama wins, the USA loses.
We never should have outsourced that job to Kenya.
"clearly exasperated"
DHOTUS
Diversity Hire Of The United States.
Not qualified for the position. Selected because of his skin color. Can't handle the workload. Cuts out early to play golf. Grows frustrated then bitter then angry. Blames everyone else for his mistakes. Files EEO complaint against his employers.
Its the same pattern we've seen in work spaces all over America.
I did not think the media could take it any farther up the ass for this President. But I was wrong.
Soon he can compete with the previous Worst President Jimmy Carter in being the worst former President. Plus, he can get rich doing it.
The ABC radio news outdid themselves in pushing this meme the other day.
They led off mentioning that the Emmys were coming up. (Strange for a lead.) Then mentioned that the West Wing won many Emmys. Then played a quote from the West Wing where the oh-so-reasonable President complains about everyone else just wanting to play politics. Then they likened that to Obama.
I kid you not.
I would certainly call his bluff, and ask him to his face, "How can you be a natural born Citizen if you were born British, to a British subject father?" The reason that question is not allowed is because it is Obama's Kryptonite, and he is being protected by a fawning, or controlled opposition (like Kauthhammer) press and a treasonous Congress.
When losing, blame the press.
Related: James Delingpole’s bit on what the Murdoch controversy is about in English: Murdoch wants to buy BSKyB and create a U.K. version of Fox News.
This would threaten the BBC’s monopoly on news.
Fox News, that much despised channel that the left loves to hate, actually reports opposition to Obama. That has to be stopped, doesn't it?
The problem with that statement is this, Obama's Olympian above-the-fray-no-politics pose as he called it is already undermined by Obama himself.It is impossible to be an Olympian and a community organizer at the same time especially when the only virtue President Obama have is narcissism.
Same as it ever was.
The press is a dead fish. Easy to reel in ... if you get your hook somewhere across its body ... or even its fins. Or tail.
1/13/13 us rescue day. Not a day before. And, if it's Sarah Palin ... heads on TV will explode. If not for the Internet the lamestream will go out on strike. And, it won't matter.
Yes, there will be unemployment. Journalists ... members of unions. A whole lot of people will be out of work. And, the significant factor could become that it registers no sympathy.
Nor does it get people with these credentials hired ... as the private sector opens up, again.
That's what my crystal ball says. You don't need a psychiatrist to tell you what the future might be like.
I get tired of republicans constant complaining about how unfair politics is. When you're in a fight, you expect your opponent to use every trick he can to win. Why get upset when he does the same in politics? The constant grousing at what he gets away with wears on me and sound petulant.
Here's an idea, stop complaining about the positive press he's been getting and come up with some of your own. Best line in this current political struggle was "The GOP will not be left collecting the taxes for the Obama economy." That resonates, say that instead of whining about how the MSM kisses too much ass.
The ABC radio news outdid themselves in pushing this meme the other day.
I wonder how that squares with Jake Tapper, also of ABC, who I see quoted as constantly pressing Carney in the dailies.
I don't care what you say you can't trust a German.
I have a feeling this is the same compliant press that was told not to shout questions at Little Zero.
I can remember when Reagan, the real one, had questions screamed at him by Bill Plante and Sam Donaldson. Funny how the compliant press changes due to party and pigmentation.
When asked to whom they would assign responsibility should the limit not be raised, 48 percent of respondents chose the congressional Republicans; 34 percent said they would blame the Obama administration.
These results echo a Pew Research Center poll conducted from June 16-19 which asked the same question as the Quinnipiac poll. According to that survey, 42 percent of respondents said they would blame Republicans in Congress if the debt ceiling were not raised; 33 percent chose the Obama Administration.
I don't know what's wrong with House Republicans. They should do what Krauthammer has been saying they should do. I don't know his exact numbers, but they don't matter. Pass a debt extension for, say 6, months with commenserate spending cuts (say $0.5T). Just pass it and send it to the Democratic Senate.
"cold grinding grizzly bear jaws hot on your heels"
I enjoy listening to the news reports concerning the deby ceiling. All I have heard give the president a quote complaining about the Republicans, none have given the Rs a quote. None.
None have mentioned how spending has changed since the Ds took over Congress. None have mentioned how the deficit has metastasized since then. They just play a sound bite of the President complaining that the other side won't compromise on raising taxes.
The country would be much more healthy with a real press.
Trey
The Kraut is right about one thing.
The House should pass a debt ceiling bill with say a trillion of ceiling and a moderate amount of spending cuts, and pass the problem off to the Senate.
don't get stuck being part of the problem, make the other guy hold the grenade, while you hold the pin :)
yeah, I know I mixed metaphors, deal with it...
I wonder how that squares with Jake Tapper, also of ABC, who I see quoted as constantly pressing Carney in the dailies.
ABC radio top of the hour news is comically partisan. It is a regular source of galling entertainment.
edutcher - Can we asume you don't remember this?
Jeff Gannon, between 2003 and 2005, given credentials as a White House reporter? A "plant," employed by the conservative website Talon News, to ask ridiculously simple and friendly questions of the President.
@Trooper: Don't blame Angel of Merchel; blame the supplicants of One World.
Freeman Hunt - According to YOU and the rest of the local teabaggers, if it doesn't originate with Fox, Limbaugh, Drudge or Beck...it just isn't honest.
Duh.
The Krauts will steal you breakfast table. Just sayn'
Well yes. Ever since the 2000 election the MSM has totally dispensed with the mask of pretend "professionalism and objectivity" to become unabashed a) supporters of all things politically and culturally left-wing and b) full-time assailants of the American political right--both its elected representatives and in the general public--in an attempt to paint them as both stupid and crazy and thus of consisting of people who's views are totally intellectually suspect and thus not worthy of attention. All of this has taken the form of a 24/7/365 full-court press. When combined with the usual lefty "progressive" output of Hollywood and academia, this cultural drum-beat forms an all-encompassing, unceasing miasma of "Kulturesmog" which totally envelopes the American sociocultural scene. The wonder of it all is that ANY Republicans are elected EVER..
Fox News is wiping out the opposition.
Krauthammer appears regularly on
Fox News.
So, the opposition is being heard.
Why do you think that the left hates Fox News?
It's must be bad if Jeremy has strapped on his codpiece and entered the lists.
House to Vote on $2.4 Trillion
Debt Increase, Cuts
The pliant press is shameless.
Maybe the GOP needs a fighter that will expose the press.
That job may need to be outsourced to Alaska.
Reagan - raised the debt ceiling 17 times.
Bush - raised the debt ceiling 7 times.
The Queen and her loyal sidekick Needy's sycophant teabagging crowd, here every day of your lifge, just can't accept having an educated, successful black man as your President.
*Well, you might as well get used to it...he'll win again in 2012.
Dr. K is great but he all too often equates winning to whatever the MSM says. If the MSM doesn't hit Obama he thinks Obama is winning.
He was certain the GOP gains in Nov. '10 would be much smaller and I think he is wrong here that Obama is "winning" this battle ...
"“You’ll probably see the House vote on a couple of things just to make political statements,” President Barack Obama said at a news conference at the White House after the Republicans announced their plan."
Just because you don't agree with it, it doesn't make it political posturing, Mr. President.
It's must be bad if Jeremy has strapped on his codpiece and entered the lists.
ADWD has got me scratching my head...something just doesn't make sense.
Trooper - I thought you weren't going to respond to my comments?
Were you lying or aren't the meds kicking in?
Just stick to sucking on your fellow teabaggers...what you do best.
I think a much smaller plan is the better way to go. How could the Senate/President reject a small plan? And if they do, it's crystal clear on whose plate the resulting "default" lies.
jeremy,
Congress raises the debt ceiling, all the President does is sign the bill. For that matter Congress writes the federal budget. Congress sets the budget, the President executes the budget. Thus the Executive vs. the Legislative branches ...
Pop quiz: How many time has "Obama" raised the debt ceiling in 2.5 years ?
Trooper- I doubt Jeremy has anything worth protecting by a codpiece.
I wasn't responding to your comments Gene. Just making an observation.
Although this is a response I suppose.
Rant on professor. I guess it must be summer vacation and you didn't get a summer school gig.
Ohhhhhh, woe is me!!!
It's that nasty liberal MSM...
What a bunch of whining, bitching little babies you are.
On one hand you say Fox is kicking ass...and on the other, you whine about all of the wonderful, positive press coverage via the MSM.
If Fox is such a huge success...why would you care about any other news source?
This is the "dumb as a bag of rock" gang.
Jeremy said...
When asked to whom they would assign responsibility should the limit not be raised, 48 percent of respondents chose the congressional Republicans; 34 percent said they would blame the Obama administration.
These results echo a Pew Research Center poll conducted from June 16-19 which asked the same question as the Quinnipiac poll. According to that survey, 42 percent of respondents said they would blame Republicans in Congress if the debt ceiling were not raised; 33 percent chose the Obama Administration.
Given that both, particularly Q-pac, have been putting out "analysis" (Q-pac did not ask the question directly, surprise!) that consistently pushes the Lefty line, I'll still wait to hear from Rasmussen.
PS Talon News???? That's the best he has?
What a joke.
They make tiny codpieces. He can get the Tyrion Lannister model.
It's when you were a kid and you got the "Boog Powell" line bat or the "Luis Aparicio" glove or something.
They make tiny codpieces. He can get the Tyrion Lannister model.
Have you started ADWD yet, Trooper? I need something 'splained to me cuz it just don't make sense.
Jeremy ...
thats some nasty debating tactics you've got there ...
do you yell at your dogs with that mouth ?
cute labs though, they yours or your parents ?
Pass a debt extension for, say 6, months with commenserate spending cuts (say $0.5T).
So much for "deficit reduction", and "uncertainty in the marketplace".
Trooper York "I wasn't responding to your comments Gene. Just making an observation. Although this is a response I suppose."
Uh, yeah, I think you could safely say that was an actual "response"...dumb-ass.
And are you really back to the "Jeremy must be a professor at a community college" drivel?
Where do you idiots come up with this insanity?
What's the name of the college, dipstick? What course do I teach?
Duh.
On one hand you say Fox is kicking ass...and on the other, you whine about all of the wonderful, positive press coverage via the MSM.
If Fox is such a huge success...why would you care about any other news source?
To a certain extent, I agree with this.
Fox New is kicking ass.
Folks, you are ignoring the massive influence of Fox News.
There is a counterbalance to the Obama uber alles media... and that is Fox News.
The alternative source of news exists, and people are tuning in.
O'Reilly is beating Obama like a rented mule over spending and deficits. O'Reilly is #1.
"Olympian" is the word to describe the image of Obama being broadcast everywhere all of a sudden.
The secret Journolist Whistle has been blown, and Obama is Zeus like in his Mt. Rushmore pose in every image and headline.
That positions the Destroyer-in-chief to come down from Olympus and heroically rearrange the pieces of the America that he has carefully destroyed.
The Olympian Greek gods sure are angry at the USA and Israel these days.
I think the Kraut was on the money when he termed the Jug Eared Jesus a Special Olympian.
That sounds about right.
"So much for "deficit reduction", and "uncertainty in the marketplace"."
Apparently, it's all that's possible at this time. Since it will only cover a few months of spending, the debate would be far from over.
Yahoo News pisses me off, because they portray themselves and independent... and they aren't.
Current headline: Obama underscores urgency of debt talks!
Yahoo News is almost always obtained from the Associated Press, a very lefty organization.
"I did not think that the media could take it any further up the ass for this President. I was wrong."
The media are so far in the tank for Obama --have so invested their entire personal and professional psyche in him--that they have formed a molecular bond with the inner lining of the tank. They are along for the ride til the bitter end. The MSM and car Obama are VIRTUALLY INSEPARABLE.
Apparently, it's all that's possible at this time.
Obama, according to reports wanted a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal. Repubs balked. I'm actually glad they did, but it shows Republicans don't care about the deficit, they just like to talk about it.
"I knew what I wanted and went out and got it! Walked into a jungle and came out, the age of forty-one, with six figures and a beamer"
-Garage Mahal, Dearth of a Salesman, Act 1
Republican saves an old lady by grabbing her and pulling her out of the way of an oncoming bus -- headline "Republican assaults helpless old woman, creates traffic jam".
Democrat pushes old lady into the path of an oncoming bus, killing her -- headline: "Democrat helps keep social security system solvent"
"Obama, according to reports wanted a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal."
What was the 4 trillion to consist of? Details please. What specfic cuts were proposed?
"Obama, according to reports wanted a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal."
I got a bridge I want you to look at, garage.
Seriously, tell us what they are, Mr. President. And because time is short, we can pass a 6 month extension so there's plenty of time for a detailed plan. Put our money where your mouth is, Sir.
Did anyone watch the presser? I believe I heard him endorse Paul Ryan's plan! Did I hear that correctly.
Note his conciliatory tone? We called his bluff nad he will get a short term deal. Tax reform will have to wait and he will say that we had our chance to solve this problem 'for a decade or more' and it passed us by...so vote for me again.
What Obama doesn't realize is that we can get more done without him than with him.
garage, The only meaningful fiscal plan any President submits is his budget. You may recall that Obama's proposed budget was so absurdly irresponsible that it received exactly ZERO votes when the Senate took it up.
All I ever hear this guy do is demand that other people come up with a plan that he will find acceptable. He has done nothing at all on his own initiative, but he feels free to carp at or ignore every other plan that's been proposed.
Obama's clear "plan" is to continue to spend at European levels, while insisting that the Republicans agree to European levels of taxes.
No thanks.
Leftwingnuts (also known as fascists) who blindly worship their lord and savior, cannot see media bias. What media bias? We should ALL worship obama. It's perfectly natural to slip insults towards GOP members all the time on the Pro-obama Media with Ann Compton at the White House.
PS - Cantor, the Jew, is a big baby. I heard it on the news.
Carol_Herman wrote:
"..1/13/13 us rescue day. Not a day before. And, if it's Sarah Palin ... heads on TV will explode."
Carol,
First, the obvious correction: it's 1/20/2013 not the 13th. (Or am I missing something?) Secondly, it's 1/21/2013 -- this POUTUS gets an extra day because a fluke of the calendar.
But, I am sure there are millions down with the concept.
The reason Krauthammer is irked is because he knows that the GOP is going to be defeated throughout the nation next Nov. (2012). I mean he knows. Every evening we get together at the Oval Room (last night at W Hotel). I think today at the Four Seasons. We just talk about the lead that is between us (WH, OB2) and them (the GOP). I do not want to be in the GOP. I have one client who I am literally begging to leave GOP for Dems. He wont and so I am doing best to get him re-elected.
The GOP is finished. The 2012 is going to be a water-shed year. The defeat will be so big that there will be PHD dissertations on it. What can you do? Stop wasting time in supporting GOP, sending money to orphanages, etc. Support diversity in GOP. Support visions for the GOP, etc.
It's kind of like a football game where all the referees except one are rooting for the home team.
The home team thinks that the worst thing that can happen is that the one referee could make a call that would cost them the game. So they want him gone.
The visiting team thinks the worst thing that can happen is that any of the other referees could make a call that would cost them the game. So they want the other referees to play it fair (or lean their way.)
They're both wrong. The worst thing that can happen is that the fans storm the field.
It is the media doing this, the people know the difference and I here from many who can't wait for 2012. If O gets his way, there is little reason to wait for 2012.
Jeremy: These results echo a Pew Research Center poll conducted blah blah blah
"The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." - Tocqueville
To seriously jeopardize the election now in pursuit of a long-term, small-government, Ryan-like reform that is inherently unreachable without control of the White House may be good for the soul. But it could very well wreck the cause.
Cantor, the Jew, is a big baby. I heard it on the news.
AprilApple is an embarrassment to anti-leftists everywhere.
Jeremy...Welcome back. Try to ignore Fox News. They are busy selling commercials since everybody is watching them.
But, have you seen the CNN's blanket coverage of The Great Default of 2011, the past two days?
It is all they are talking about. It is the refusal of the GOP House leadership to do what King Obama orders them to do that is ending the Great Obama Recovery, no matter how much Obama orders them to obey him, or else.
I for one am proud to see that an American President can re-program CNN coverage so fast. That is a skill Americans can brag about.
Now if we can get Obama to convert to Christianity , then that Christian Theocracy ruled by one prophet that you always feared will be a fait accomplis.
Obama image problems:
1. Massive spender
2. Ditherer in Chief.
3. Growing perception that while likable as a person he is a little man with a silver tongue unfit for the job.
Republican image problems:
1. Blind fealty to never raising taxes on the wealthy and business revenue transferred right to the owners to pre-Clinton levels.
2. Fundamental unseriousness about budget cuts "I identified 62 million in earmarks we can cut from the 2 trillion shortfall as well as the 200 million to the NEA - cut that and then we can talk about the bigger cuts."
3. Refusal to tie tax cuts to job creation by the wealthy or businesses in the name of "Freedom!" for them to do with their tax cut money as they please and not make continued tax cuts conditional on job creation.
4. Refusal when confronted, to go on record on any major ticket entitlement item. Republicans that signed the Norquist no taxes ever! Pledge refuse to vote to end the ethanol subsidy, cut SS, restrict healthcare providers profits on Medicare and Medicaide. They refuse to address ending or paying for Bush's unfunded prescription drug subsidy for seniors, the 200 billion a year spent on neocon wars of nation-building or Obama's new Libyan adventure.
Look, Obama looks bad in this..but honestly, so do Grover Norquists minions!
What Phil said.
chip: You do understand that was a sarcastic remark?
ABC radio news proclaimed that Cantor was big baby. Along with a nice clip of Boehner denying the whole thing. It was a nice set up.
In the end, which is where I'll get it, they will work out a statesmanlike compromise by raising my taxes and lowering my social security and Medicare benefits.....I have no great love for hedge fund managers. They're all Democrats anyway. I wouldn't mind if Republicans tossed them under the boss. Claw back the last ten years of capital gains for George Soros, Warren Buffet, the Goldman Sachs board, etc. and tax that money as regular income. Use that money to subsidize rides for poor children at Disneyland. If they object, flash pictures of poor urchins with tear filled eyes against a background of jowly Democrats masticating steaks. Rich Democrats. Isn't it time they gave back?
Support diversity in GOP.
Yes, just don't nominate Christian women for office. They're crazy homophobes.
And, don't nominate blacks either.
They're "house niggers!"
Soon he can compete with the previous Worst President Jimmy Carter in being the worst former President. Plus, he can get rich doing it.
The president I think he most resembles is Hoover. Most of us were taught a false history of Hoover. He was actually a progressive and his policies, trying to keep wages high, raising taxes and raising tariffs, were policies that Roosevelt followed in 1933. Rex Tugwell even admitted it.
Good help us if an FDR, in the person of Obama II, follows this Hoover in 2013.
April, No, I didn't read that as sarcasm. It would have been a lot clearer w/o the "Jew" business.
Fen - You love those polls when they support your right wing point of view.
Duh.
Obama's pose is nothing but politics and the press will sing his praises as Rome burns.
"...Pass a debt extension for, say 6, months with commenserate spending cuts (say $0.5T). Just pass it and send it to the Democratic Senate..."
I'll go one better. Pass debt extension, agree to any tax increase the Democrats want, just state we are doing it to save grannys SS check. Then when the economy completely tanks as a result, Bambi can start packing. All Boner has to say is, I told ya so.
I think the left in general like to pick on blacks and Jews who are not on the leftwing plantation.
Sorry for the confusion - Chip.
@cedarford: Interesting list. Your negatives for republicans certaining outweighs the Dem's. I wonder, were you to make a list of "positives," which side would be weightier?
Whew:
http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/15/gop-announces-vote-on-18-month-debt-ceiling-plan/
Over to you, Mr. President.
@cedarford: In your Church of Equals, having both right and left sides, be careful how you skew the Pews!
One thing piques my curiosity:
How can the Kraut say Little Zero's act is "Olympian above-the-fray no-politics-here" after the Wednesday tantrum and the Tuesday Tony Soprano act?
Then again, he's looking at the fellation of the Establishment Media, not public reaction. I'm sure there are polls telling us that ZeroCare is really popular.
Jeremy: Fen - You love those polls when they support your right wing point of view.
Another lie.
I'd go along with that, Hoosier. It's become abundantly clear we aren't going to solve this problem with the current resident of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
This isn't 1995 anymore. While the drive-bys still have influence, it has waned. New media are far more important and influential than ever and won't let Obama get away with his bullshit and lies, like 80% of the American want their taxes raised! What a load of shit!
@AprilA, Got it. This was my first--and, probably, last--foray into thread-policing.
wv consump: "Household spending is down by a tion under the administration's ill-advised policies."
"Fox News Kicking Ass???"
NBC – Nightly News with Brian Williams
8,321,000 total viewers
ABC – World News with Charles Gibson
8,643,000 total viewers
CBS – Evening News with Katie Couric
6,755,000 total viewers
TOTAL = 23,719,000
O'Reilly - 3,128,000
Hannity - 1,860,000
Beck - 1,691,000
TOTAL = 6,679,000
I got an email from Urban Outfitters today and in the subject line it said, "A New Dress".
I find this homophobic.
How anyone thinks that a 40% tax rate is a good idea on top of other rates that include (but not limited to) capital gains, property tax, sales tax etc.. is astounding.
Let's take 60-70% of private ownership and send it to our thrifty government. Great idea. The government is a much better steward of private property than we the people. We are lowly rubes and we cannot be trusted. We must trust Schumer, Durbin, Pelosi, Krugman and Obama.
Yeah - right.
AprilApple "I think the left in general like to pick on blacks and Jews who are not on the leftwing plantation."
Well, thank God the Founding Fathers fought that slavery thingie.
Duh.
I am constantly getting emails from DickDorm too.
I never even signed up for DickDorm.
And DickDorm is not even real. They make it look like they are in a dorm and it is some kind of hazing event but when you read the comments you realize the "amateurs" in DickDorm, that with much apprehension have sex with a guy, have been other pornos.
I am on some gay email list and every time I "unsubscribe" some other fag site sends me some shit.
This is outrageous.
"...Let's take 60-70% of private ownership and send it to our thrifty government. Great idea...."
Sure it is when you're a liberal. They obviously feel the state can spend money smarter than you which is why I can guarantee that any additional revenue that comes in will find its way to some new social program. I'm sure there is a need for taxpayer funded educational pamphlets on why wiping front to back is good hygiene.
Jeremy: When people cite the performance of Fox they are not comparing it to the networks. Only old people watch the networks. Old people and housewives. Oh, and the 10% without cable.
I got a bridge I want you to look at, garage.
If you read the script from the presser and didn't know who it was, you would think it was a Republican talking. He will likely lose to Romney, and I say, no difference. The disapointment has turned into a viceral hatred of this fucking guy. Totally clueless. Republicans don't even support the cuts he is allegedly proposing.
Jeremy: Well, thank God the Founding Fathers fought that slavery thingie.
You're such a simple mind.
The concept of Libterty for merchant class males was revolutionary back then. It laid the foundation that eventually led to equality for everyone else, including slaves and females. Cultures EVOLVE, but you are too dumb to get that.
You might as well insist that the Founders are discredited because they didn't fight for Animal Rights.
Jeremy: Duh
Indeed. I am done wasting time on you.
AprilApple - The 400 wealthiest Americans have more money than the bottom 120,000,000 and pay an average income tax rate of 16%.
Get your head out of your ass.
*Most of the taxes associated with the wealthiest Americans is related to "capital gains," which are taxed at about 17%.
overall
*Oh...and here's a tidbit from Bruce Bartlett - advisor to Ronnie "The Saint" Reagan:
"Historically, the term “tax rate” has meant the average or effective tax rate — that is, taxes as a share of income. The broadest measure of the tax rate is total federal revenues divided by the gross domestic product.
By this measure, federal taxes are at their lowest level in more than 60 years. The truth of the matter is that federal taxes in the United States are very low. There is no reason to believe that reducing them further will do anything to raise growth or reduce unemployment."
"Republicans don't even support the cuts he is allegedly proposing."
Even you don't believe him.
Fen - I'm just quoting your favorite nominee to be President.
re you saying Michelle was wrong?
The Founding Fathers didn't fight to end slavery?
John Quincy Adams wasn't really a Founding Father?
"...AprilApple -The 400 wealthiest Americans have more money than the bottom 120,000,000 and pay an average income tax rate of 16%..."
Yes and the top 5% pay 60% of the federal tax.
But hey, let's tax em at 40%. Cause only rich people benefit from cap gains.
Michael - Only "old people" watch broadcast news?
That means approximately 44% of America is now too "old" to have cable.
You're as dumb as a bag of rocks.
I don't know what's wrong with House Republicans. They should do what Krauthammer has been saying they should do. I don't know his exact numbers, but they don't matter. Pass a debt extension for, say 6, months with commenserate spending cuts (say $0.5T). Just pass it and send it to the Democratic Senate.
The longer this goes on, the more I ask myself why Obama is involved at all. Why is the GOP negotiating with him and not House Democrats? Why is the Senate pretty much letting Obama run the show? Obama's role is to sign or veto what the Congress puts before him. Put something before him and let him decide. But let Congress do their jobs. Let the Senate come up with a budget themselves (which they have failed to do for more than 800 days, by the way).
Obama can negotiate all he wants, but he's not the one who ultimately writes the legislation and therefore far from having a hand to bluff with, he doesn't actually have any cards but one -- a veto.
Corn Cob - "Yes and the top 5% pay 60% of the federal tax."
Well, yes...that's directly related to making the most money...right?
*General Electric made $14.2 billion in "profit" and paid...ZERO in taxes.
*Exxon made 42 billion in profits and paid ZERO to the IRS.
Gold is close to $1600 today and will be headed north of $2000 before the end of the Obama era. That's all you really need to know.
Jeremy:"That means approximately 44% of America is now too "old" to have cable.
You're as dumb as a bag of rocks."
Did you learn to read from Obama or do arithmetic. I said nothing of the kind. Try reading it aloud to yourself, using a pencil for notes. If you can find a book on logic you might get that as well.
Duh.
Drew - "The longer this goes on, the more I ask myself why Obama is involved at all. Why is the GOP negotiating with him and not House Democrats? Why is the Senate pretty much letting Obama run the show?"
Well, he being the President appears to have something to do with it.
Are you saying Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Sr. and little Georgie had nothing to do with discussions and debate relating to the debt ceiling?
You know...when Reagan had it raised 17 times...or Clinton 4 times, and of course, little Georgie 7 times?
Duh.
Michael - "Only old people watch the networks. Old people and housewives. Oh, and the 10% without cable."
So you're saying only 10% of Americans do not have cable?
Care to provide a link?
"U.S. consumer sentiment deteriorated in early July to the lowest level since March 2009 on increasing pessimism over falling income and rising unemployment, a survey released Friday showed."
Obama is awesome.
"The longer this goes on, the more I ask myself why Obama is involved at all."
It was reasonable to negogiate with him at the beginning, but this has gone on for too long. Psss something and send it to him. If it's a small bill and he vetoes it, it's all on him.
To paraphrase the old line from The Godfather, "Jeremy better come out of there with more than his codpiece in his hand." Jeremy needs a few more facts than he's been able to come up with. But I give him props for trying.
Duh: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_American_households_have_cable_or_satellite_tv_I_ask_because_it_strikes_me_as_odd_that_all_the_debates_are_only_on_cable.
LarsPorsena "Gold is close to $1600 today and will be headed north of $2000 before the end of the Obama era. That's all you really need to know."
Well, then I guess you and others here can stop watching Fox or listening to Rush, Drudge or Beck.
It's all over.
No sense in clogging your little minds with any more right wing drivel.
It's done.
garage mahal said...Obama, according to reports wanted a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal. Repubs balked.
You are a liar.
"...Well, yes...that's directly related to making the most money...right? *General Electric made $14.2 billion in "profit" and paid...ZERO in taxes. *Exxon made 42 billion in profits and paid ZERO to the IRS..."
No that's income, not cap gains. Blame IRS rules that allow GE to write off previous years losses.
Want to raise cap gains? Go for it and watch revenue decrease. That's cause those whose incomes derive solely from cap gains simply defer the income. Even your dimwit president admitted that.
This carping over Bachmann's comments on the founders' struggles against slavery is typical lefty bullshit, in that it's unclear whether the carping is due to ignorance or mendacity.
The basic problem seems to be a failure to recognize the primacy of the states in the early years of the Republic. It's a matter of historical record that there was indeed a struggle against slavery in the earliest years of independence:
Nevertheless, the spirit of liberty that had been so invigorated by the events of the 1770s did manifest itself in a number of important measures affecting the status of America's slaves. In 1777 the constitution for the new state of Vermont completely abolished slavery, and Massachusetts soon followed suit. Many other Northern states, such as Pennsylvania in 1780, adopted legislation aimed at gradual emancipation during this period, although it was not until 1804 that New Jersey finally enacted a similar law. Not surprisingly, in the South anti-slavery gains were much more modest. But three Southern states, including Virginia in 1782, passed laws that made it possible for owners to manumit their slaves.
The fact that compromise over the single most contentious issue was deemed necessary to unite the several states does not mean that there was no struggle against slavery at the time of the nation's founding.
Whining and bitching via The Queen's loyal sycophants.
And based on their every day of the week attendance here, evidently do not have jobs.
I wonder why?
Must be because of Obama.
Duh.
B: Garage isn't a liar. Note the weasel words he used; "according to reports", "allegedly". Garage doesn't believe it anymore than the rest of us.
If you read the script from the presser and didn't know who it was, you would think it was a Republican talking. He will likely lose to Romney, and I say, no difference.
This is what is under-reported. The media is all about the Republican party at war with itself, fighting the Tea Party faction.
We hear little about the Democratic Party and those on the far left who want to double-down on stimulus, increase the Medicare and Medicaid budgets etc.
The press coverage regarding the debt ceiling impasse suggest its a righteous, reasonable and united democratic party against a fractious, frenzied and far out Republican Party. I'd be curious to know:
1) how many Blue Dogs agree with the House bill?
2) How many liberal Senators were fine with the President's original budget?
Even you don't believe him.
When he says in the presser numerous times he is proposing "cuts", or means testing Medicare, I believe him. That's a campaign ad right there.
Jeremy said...The 400 wealthiest Americans have more money than the bottom 120,000,000 and pay an average income tax rate of 16%.
Hey, shithead, how many Americans can be considered independent adults with finances they can consider their own? How about the 'bottom 120,000,000 Americans'. Where do they fit in? Independent adults? Under 18. Under 15?
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
What are those cuts, garage?
You are a liar.
You keep saying that, prove it fuckface.
Jeremy said...
"Fox News Kicking Ass???"
Fox is on cable. Comparing to broadcast nets is nonsense; comparing to CNN and MSNBC is valid.
Don't duh, it just makes things worse.
PS Jeremy probably believes Little Zero when he says 80% of Americans want higher taxes.
One fact Jeremy forgot to mention about the "400 richest taxpayers" is that they're not the same people year-to-year. Over the past 16 years, 3,472 different taxpayers have been in the top 400, which works out to an average attrition rate of over 50% per year.
For most of these people, membership in The 400 is a consequence of hitting it big in one huge outlier of a year. So their income taxes seem low for two reasons: 1) income averaging, and 2) such large incomes are largely one-time capital gains (such as realized by taking your company public).
There is not a clique of 400 people who always get the highest incomes and who always pay a 16% average tax rate.
Not that we could come remotely close to covering the deficit by taxing these people at twice that average rate anyway.
Since 1939, Congress has raised the debt limit 89 times. In fact, in two-thirds of these instances, there was a Republican president, and no one ever used the vote as leverage...
Trying to win an election by gambling with the US Economy...you must be proud.
Blogger machine said...
Since 1939, Congress has raised the debt limit 89 times. In fact, in two-thirds of these instances, there was a Republican president, and no one ever used the vote as leverage...
Trying to win an election by gambling with the US Economy...you must be proud.
---------------------------------
Obama and the Dems are quite proud of their record.
Back in 2006, Obama joined with other Senate Democrats to vote against raising the debt limit, a measure supported by President George W. Bush.
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills," Obama said. The Senate narrowly approved raising the limit along partisan lines, 52-48, with all Democrats opposed.
"....Trying to win an election by gambling with the US Economy...you must be proud...."
Hey it worked for Obama.
OM
We don't know what's in that 4 trillion. But I don't know anyone disputing that Obama proposed a 4 trillion dollar package.
@machine, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the controversy has something to do with the fact that last year's increase in the debt limit was more than twice the previous biggest increase.
Justifying further massive deficits on the grounds that we've already got over $14 trillion in outstanding debt is a pretty weird argument, you've got to admit.
"Trying to win an election by gambling with the US Economy...you must be proud."
What?? I thought 80% of the public wants tax increases. Doesn't sound like a very good strategy for winning an election to me.
I'll believe it when I see it, garage. You'd be wise to do the same.
I don't know anyone disputing that Obama proposed a 4 trillion dollar package.
I think Original Mike may be talking about spending cuts, while you're talking about "deficit cuts," a.k.a. tax hikes and unenforceable promises to cut spending later on.
Note to congressional Republicans:
Please repeat over and over again, preferable in front of a microphone and a news camera, "The President believes 80% of Americans want tax increases. They do not and we are vigorously fighting the President and his scheme to raise your taxes"
The reality is, Obama increased spending through the roof (I believe the figure is 28%)and now he wants to increase taxes to lock it in permanantly. The long run health of the economy requires people to stand up against that. You're damn right I'm proud, machine.
Yes, the 4 trillion figure includes tax hikes.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Since 1939, Congress has raised the debt limit 89 times. In fact, in two-thirds of these instances, there was a Republican president, and no one ever used the vote as leverage...
Trying to win an election by gambling with the US Economy...you must be proud.
So it’s all good if the debt:GNP ration gets to 90% or 100% plus then, Machine? I mean, what a few trillion one way or another, right? And I believe at least one courageous Democrat spoke and voted against raising the debt ceiling, I believe it was…Barak Hussein Obama….M’mmm m’mmmm good.
And trying to win an election by starving Grand Ma by withholding her SS Cheque…you must be SO proud.
If the House GOP were to vote against raising the debt limit en masse as a matter of principle, that's one thing. But that is not what they are doing here. They want concessions to fit their agenda, to satisfy a small minority of the American public and win elections, regardless of the consequences.
It's blackmail....
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
We don't know what's in that 4 trillion. But I don't know anyone disputing that Obama proposed a 4 trillion dollar package.
No one knows what’s in it, be he proposed it, eh? *WOW* I do have a bridge for you…don’t ask about any specifics, please, just send me USD $150,000 please.
"to satisfy a small minority of the American public and win elections"
Norman, coordinate?
"f the House GOP were to vote against raising the debt limit en masse as a matter of principle, that's one thing. "
What principles were behind Obama's 2006 vote?
It's blackmail....
No. Threatening not to send granny's SS check is blackmail. What the Republicans are doing is all they can do when Obama submits a unicorns-and-tooth-fairy budget and the Senate refuses to pass one at all.
This is the new budget process, thanks to the Dems.
We're not going to default. Last minute deal will be made and Bambi can go going. Relax.
Just need to see how much rates will have to be raised to entice bond buyers.
Plus we have a machine that can print all the money we need. I read that on a blog somewhere.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
If the House GOP were to vote against raising the debt limit en masse as a matter of principle, that's one thing. But that is not what they are doing here. They want concessions to fit their agenda, to satisfy a small minority of the American public and win elections, regardless of the consequences.
It's blackmail....
Unlike defaulting and not paying Granny her SS cheque, right Machine….and so now you parse Congress’ “intentions’ it would be all right IF Congress did “X” for the right reasons, but as they aren’t…” really so now you “know” why Congress votes as it does…and funny paying attention to the interests that ELECTED IS WHAT POLITICIANS DO, or did you fail Civics?
"..It's blackmail...."
No dear, that's politics.
I take it you're a youngin.
chickenlittle said...
@cedarford: Interesting list. Your negatives for republicans certaining outweighs the Dem's. I wonder, were you to make a list of "positives," which side would be weightier?
==================
I'd say the Democrats are fundamentally unserious in a bigger way than Republicans. I did not mention Dems on Congress or heading bankrupt Blue Cities on Obama's side because the clash is essentially - the Obama Administration vs. the Republican House. But those DEms, especially blacks, are wedded to Mo' entitlements! Mo' Free stuff!
But let's not ignore the fundamental unseriousness of Republicans that cheer the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few and their near religious ferver about cutting taxes further for the wealthy. Without having the balls to apply similar religious level ferver to the Big Cuts...not the little niggling 3 million Wombat fertility study grant or the 200 million NEA funding they can cite to cheering hushpuppy munching yahoos.
The Big Stuff. Will they end the Neocon wars? Tell SS recipents no COLAs for the next 5 years? Tell seniors that heroic end of life medical care expenses will have to come out of their pocket or their families but the Feds will no longer pay carte blanche? Will Republicans line up and demand an end to Bush's unfunded Big Pharma drug cost subsidy? The Ethanol subsidy? Farmers subsidies? The mansion mortgage bailout?
Heck no!
The same Tea Party people that scream about taxes scream just as loud about ending their entitlements, ending the trillion dollar Heroes wars. And ideologically, don't want Free Trade with China ended.
"Just last week, House Republicans released a new plan to reduce unemployment. Its principal provision would reduce the top statutory income tax rate on businesses and individuals to 25 percent from 35 percent. No evidence was offered for the Republican argument that cutting taxes for the well-to-do and big corporations would reduce unemployment; it was simply asserted as self-evident.
One would not know from the Republican document that corporate taxes are expected to raise just 1.3 percent of G.D.P. in revenue this year, about a third of what it was in the 1950s."
Bruce Bartlett - 5/31/11
Corn Cob - "I take it you're a youngin."
No.
Probably just more educated than yourself.
Corn Cob - "We're not going to default. Last minute deal will be made and Bambi can go going. Relax."
Care to run that by everybody again...this time in English?
Machine, how is the GOP going to win elections by satisfying "a small minority of the American people"?
Chip S. - Tell me the last time we didn't raise the debt ceiling.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
But Jeremy the Republicans propose to “end corporate welfare” by closing various loop holes and exemptions, i.e. flattening the pyramid, but broadening it…after all it’s the EFFECTIVE tax rate that counts, not the statutory one…IF they are equal we’re better off, efficiency-wise, and no worse off revenue-wise…At one time the top STATUTORY rate was 90% but was the EFFECTIVE rate of those in that income class? A lot less than 90%, and dropping it, but closing loop holes didn’t hurt revenue, and made the tax code easier, and the economy more efficient.
But hey, you go ahead and raise those rates on the “rich” and “corporate jet owners”. You’ll get trillions more in income, no doubt….
"Will they end the Neocon wars? Tell SS recipents no COLAs for the next 5 years? Tell seniors that heroic end of life medical care expenses will have to come out of their pocket or their families but the Feds will no longer pay carte blanche? Will Republicans line up and demand an end to Bush's unfunded Big Pharma drug cost subsidy? The Ethanol subsidy? Farmers subsidies? The mansion mortgage bailout?"
Why is that incumbent of the R's. Why can't dear leader do it? You know it's necessary. Why is the obvious eluding Barry? He's prof erred nothing except stuff that's going to supposedly happen in 2025 or 2030.
poppa india "Machine, how is the GOP going to win elections by satisfying "a small minority of the American people"?"
They aren't.
Americans (other than teabaggers) know exactly who is creating the problems during these negotiations.
Since 1962, Congress voted through 74 separate measures to raise the debt ceiling.
And...in the 86 times the debt ceiling has been raised since 1950, 57 of those times, a Republican was President.
This all about saying "no" to anything proposed, initiated or said by President Obama.
The party of "NO" will pay for this at the polls.
Tell me the last time we didn't raise the debt ceiling.
I think it was the last time we ran a $1.4 trillion deficit with an outstanding $14 trillion debt, and had not passed a budget for the looming fiscal year.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
The party of "NO" will pay for this at the polls.
America’s Politico, revealed as JEREMY….you keep telling yourself that.
Drew - "The longer this goes on, the more I ask myself why Obama is involved at all. Why is the GOP negotiating with him and not House Democrats? Why is the Senate pretty much letting Obama run the show?"
Well, he being the President appears to have something to do with it.
Are you saying Reagan, Clinton, Bush, Sr. and little Georgie had nothing to do with discussions and debate relating to the debt ceiling?
You know...when Reagan had it raised 17 times...or Clinton 4 times, and of course, little Georgie 7 times?
Duh.
Duh, yourself, you Obama-licking buffoon. The president can promise the moon, but unless his Democrats get off the sidelines and agree to what he promises, and put it in writing, then all he's doing is talking. And talking. And talking. He's the executive branch. Do you remember that from civics class?
"Tell me the last time we didn't raise the debt ceiling."
Tell me the point of the debt ceiling.
Joe - We should close the loopholes that allow the most profitable corporations pay literally no income taxes, and at the same time raise taxes on the top 2% by 2-3 points.
And yes, it will bring in much needed revenue.
Reagan raised taxes four times...not that any of the teabaggers here even know that.
Oh, and Clinton was instrumental in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, raising of taxes in American history...and look at how that worked out.
20 million new jobs and a booming economy.
Oh, and Clinton was instrumental in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, raising of taxes in American history...and look at how that worked out.
Funny how you forget that Clinton cut capital gains taxes twice.
20 million new jobs and a booming economy.
Hysterical.
I think you should go on pretending raising taxes "creates jobs" bozo.
Original Mike -"Tell me the last time we didn't raise the debt ceiling."
Still waiting.
*Oh, and tell me what the national debt was the day little Georgie walked in the door...and what it was the day he walked out...right after signing the 700 billion dollar bank bailout.
*And the unemployment rate was at 7.6% the day he walked...and at 8.2% three weeks later.
He left behind a gigantic economic bag of shit.
garage mahal said...
We don't know what's in that 4 trillion. But I don't know anyone disputing that Obama proposed a 4 trillion dollar package.
He also just proposed on live television that 80% of Americans agree that taxes should be raised.
He, like you, is a silly liar.
e day he walked...and at 8.2% three weeks later.
And of course it being over 9% for about 4 quarters now makes it all ok.
You are a drooling imbecile.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Joe - We should close the loopholes that allow the most profitable corporations pay literally no income taxes, and at the same time raise taxes on the top 2% by 2-3 points.
Like Immelt’s GE? And Government Motors, what about them?
And yes, it will bring in much needed revenue.
Reagan raised taxes four times...not that any of the teabaggers here even know that.
Yeah tax the folks that make jobs and we’ll get more jobs….and that’s why we oppose them NOW. The charade was, “Taxes TODAY, for spending cuts TOMORROW.” Not playing that any more.
Instead it will neither increase employment, nor reduce the deficit/debt….
Oh, and Clinton was instrumental in one of the biggest, if not the biggest, raising of taxes in American history...and look at how that worked out.
20 million new jobs and a booming economy.
Which were repealed by Republicans and REPUDIATED by Clinton, himself….you miss that one didn’t you?
*General Electric made $14.2 billion in "profit" and paid...ZERO in taxes.
And that is only since Barry took office.
GE is one of Barry's biggest supporters.
You continue to beclown yourself.
"Still waiting."
That was my answer, but to explain it in small words: If the debt ceiling raise is a rubber stamp, it has no putpose.
The same Tea Party people that scream about taxes scream just as loud about ending their entitlements
Which entitlements are these? I suspect that the majority of people who identify with the Tea Party don't receive any entitlements.
I mean, this is a common talking point, that people want to see every program cut except their favorite ones, but I think it's just a talking point with no basis in reality.
Oh, and tell me what the national debt was the day little Georgie walked in the door...and what it was the day he walked out...right after signing the 700 billion dollar bank bailout.
When Harry & Nancy took over, the unemployment rate was 4.6%.
Harry, Nancy, and Barry supported that bailout.
It was written by Democrats, as a matter of fact...
"..*Oh, and tell me what the national debt was the day little Georgie walked in the door...and what it was the day he walked out...right after signing the 700 billion dollar bank bailout.
*And the unemployment rate was at 7.6% the day he walked...and at 8.2% three weeks later.
He left behind a gigantic economic bag of shit."
Barry's turned the bag of shit into a cesspool.
Obama is awesome!
"*Oh, and tell me what the national debt was the day little Georgie walked in the door...and what it was the day he walked out...right after signing the 700 billion dollar bank bailout."
Lame. No one is defending Bush's profligate spending.
Reagan raised taxes four times...not that any of the teabaggers here even know that.
Soon after taking office in 1981, Reagan signed into law one of the largest tax cuts in the postwar period.
In 1986, Reagan lowered individual income tax rates again, this time in landmark tax reform legislation.
As a result of the 1981 and 1986 bills, the top income tax rate was slashed from 70% to 28%.
You continue to beclown yourself.
Which entitlements are these? I suspect that the majority of people who identify with the Tea Party don't receive any entitlements.
I'm noticing that meme everywhere Drew. I'm sure it came from Kos or Maddow or something like that...
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
As a result of the 1981 and 1986 bills, the top income tax rate was slashed from 70% to 28%.
HOWEVER, he raised Social Security Withholding Taxes…I revere Reagan, but Reagan did raise those taxes…
"Tell me the last time we didn't raise the debt ceiling."
The debt ceiling is an artificial construct. It means nothing, except to the extent that it is a law we passed, and passed for a reason -- to prevent us from spending too much.
Raising it is an admission that we're spending too much -- and I don't care who raises it. If your defense is "George Bush did it" you've clearly lost the argument. That's not a defense. That's an indictment.
We're not going to have our credit rating downgraded for failure to raise our debt ceiling. It'll be because we spend too fucking much. Raising the debt does not address this more serious issue.
Jeremy, Here's a question for you:
When's the only time the federal deficit has exceeded 10 percent of GDP, other than during a World War?
Answer.
Hoosier -
"Yes and the top 5% pay 60% of the federal tax."
================
The problem is that as the American middle class is destroyed and wealth concentrated in the Owner-Investor class few save rabidly doctrinare Republican Corporatists moan about and commiserate with - those with the wealth paying the taxes.
In the 1970s the Most High Excellency Obangaboutoo, his family, his security force retainers, and 400 business and landowner families controlled 87% of the wealth of his shithole nation of 21 million.
But they paid 95% of the taxes!
A conservative American, upset that the oligarchy was so hard hit with taxes while the masses they benefited so much by their entrepreneurship and wise rule..stopped by a squalid village occupied by chipping rocks for one of the new Palaces.
"Aren't you all a little outraged that the heroic rich people, givers of your jobs chipping stones, are being punished by having to pay so much in taxes??"
Villagers, looking one way or the other for the Dictator's security forces:
"No..but you mustn't say we lowly poor masses object to less than 1% of our country owning 87% of it's wealth and take away 87% of the wealth from our labors. Please! Don't say we complain! But can you get us rifles??"
Yes, Hoosier, an unfortunate victim of taxes, a suffering Hedge Fund manager - making 1.2 billion on shorting the US dollar DOES pay vastly more taxes at 16% of his income than some lesser American. Say some shlub working as an engineer making 80K but paying out 27% of his income as taxes!
Is the problem the failure of the engineer to make as much money as the currency speculator backed by his Family's bank?
Is the problem Americans are jealous and illogically resentful of the concentration of wealth in the Doer Folk (as Bush called his wealthy benefactors), the John Galts??
Is the problem that any progressive tax scale that has the wealthier paying more as a rate - socialist/communist! While if the owner pays less of each dollar gained than a regular upper middle class person a Wonderful thing because it creates JOBS for the rich giving lesser Americans positions??
(The real life billionaire hedge fund managers have business staffs of sometimes under a dozen people, while retaining personal lawyers, housekkepers, security people in the low hundreds. They create minimal jobs.)
"Liar!" "Beclown!"
*shaking fists*
If he were succeeding, he would not be down 8 points to a generic Republican.
If the dead tree media were as influential as they thought, Pelosi would still be Speaker of the House.
Jeremy has a point about Reagan raising taxes back up on higher incomes.
But he first lowered the 50% rate to 28% for the real middle class. That is what sparked the spending binge that raised all the boats in the world.
So why not raise the Taxes on those over $ 1,000,000 in annual net incomes?
The reason is that Obama cannot bring in the middle class' savings (which is the last real money in the USA) and therefore is the money that Obama is steely eyed intent on taking away as the final nail Soros wants him to put into the USA's coffin.
The liberals love tax hikes. Cut federal salaries and benefits and jobs by 40%, abolish welfare and section 8 housing, student loans and call it a tax hike. Eliminate the deductibility of local income taxes and all taxes to localities that have rent control and sanctuary policies. Liberal love to be taxed so the republicans should tax the hell out of them. Corporate jets? Ground the ultimate corporate jet, Air Force 1. $400 bottles of wine at state dinners? Replace with two buck Chuck with hot dogs and chips. Tax the hell out of endowments income and gains. The republicans really need to get busy and hand the HMIC and his commie lackeys the mother of all tax increases, the ones that hit mainly them. The entertainment value will be spectacular.
Original Mike said...B: Garage isn't a liar. Note the weasel words he used; "according to reports", "allegedly". Garage doesn't believe it anymore than the rest of us.
Mike, a lie can by be omission of fact in whole or in part.
'Obama, according to reports wanted a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal. Repubs balked.'
This is a lie. The republicans did not balk at a deficit reduction. They balked at new taxes. The omission of specifics makes the statement read like the republicans are against deficit reduction.
Mike, and everyone else who engages garage when he pulls his Alinsky tactics should also give this some thought, you cut this asshole garage too much slack.
bear with me here.
Alinsky is not all that smart a guy in my opinion, but he understood the Americans are outraged by lies and reflexively try to defend against them. Alinsky advises the left to use this against their opposition. Reducing the approach to it's raw application, it goes like this:
Take a issue that is prominent in the public consciousness. One where you know that your position will be rejected on it's face value, or that your side is going to have to take responsibility for it's failure. Don't try to present or defend your position. Instead, distort, lie, about your opponents position - either by outright fabulism, lie by omission of facts, or misrepresent known facts. This is nothing new, nor foreign, to the left by the way. Progressives, the left, have to lie. Alinsky knew this. He knew the weight of historical and recent evidence does not support their various agendas. Misrepresenting it and then vilifying their conservative opposition with the false narrative is vital.
Propagate the lie by publishing it in as many ways and forums as possible. Nudge their cannon fodder - the marching morons the progessives so depend on and who are incapable of critically examining anything other than their navels - to run with it.
Let your opponents express their outrage at the lie by trying to explain their actual position. Never, ever, defend your own. Spin, obfuscate, put up strawmen if need be, but otherwise do nothing to defend the liars side. When the outrage dies down, republish the original lie, unmodified.
Keep doing this until the public perception is that this is a question with two sides, and one side is poorly defended. You win.
That is what garage does. He tosses out a lie/distortion. Lets the commenters engage the original statement without ever trying to defend it. Two days later, he says the same thing in another post with no acknowledgment that the original lie was thoroughly debunked.
The way to disarm Alinsky tactics is not to fall into the trap of denying a false narrative. Instead, you simply say - 'that is a lie and you are a liar'. The same inclination Americans have to be so outraged by a lie makes them expect a valid defense from someone now being accused of being a liar. And saying, 'prove I'm lying' does not cut it. You now have to present your case and defend it.
That is what garage can't do.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
The problem is that as the American middle class is destroyed and wealth concentrated in the Owner-Investor class few save rabidly doctrinare Republican Corporatists moan about and commiserate with - those with the wealth paying the taxes.
Silly Rabbi this is untrue…the Middle Class keeps dying and yet it persists…one of the reasons it’s “dying” is that more and more of it is moving into the UPPER-Income Bracket(s).
(The real life billionaire hedge fund managers have business staffs of sometimes under a dozen people, while retaining personal lawyers, housekkepers, security people in the low hundreds. They create minimal jobs.)
Because all they do is “clone” money…and then put the old money and the cloned money into the mattresses of the Wealthy….what a maroon you are…what do they do with the funds they MANAGE you moron!? That’s right, they INVEST THEM! In businesses, that CREATE JOBS!
National Socialists/Buchananites are as economically illiterate as Obama supporters!
As far as public opinion goes, Gallup reports that 50% of respondents prefer closing the deficit "mostly" or "only" through spending cuts.
Only 11% prefer relying "mostly" or "only" on tax increases.
Reagan raised taxes four times...not that any of the teabaggers here even know that.
Reagan didn't raise taxes 4 times. He raised them 11 times, and signed the largest corporate tax increase in history. No Tea Partier, he.
"Mike, ... you cut this asshole garage too much slack."
What can I say? I'm a softy.
Jay - From PoliFact:
Several polls ask people if taxes should be increased on people who make more than $250,000. Polls show substantial majorities support the idea. We found majorities of 72 percent, 64 percent, and 59 percent. (Those are from April polls by ABC News/Washington Post, McClatchy-Marist, and USA Today/Gallup, respectively.)
The Obama legacy:
1. "We don't score speeches"
2. A downgrade of the U.S. credit rating.
Thanks Barry!
Who's ass do you have to kick!???
19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit:
http://www.politicususa.com/en/polls-taxes-deficit
Jay - From PoliFact:
Uh, and then what?
None of them are cited, none of them say 80%.
You continue to demonstrate you are an ignorant fool.
19 Different Polls Show That Americans Support Tax Increases To Cut Deficit:
And then what?
So we should govern by polls?
Those polls are good policy?
Keep pasting, bozo...
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
Several polls ask people if taxes should be increased on people who make more than $250,000. Polls show substantial majorities support the idea. We found majorities of 72 percent, 64 percent, and 59 percent. (Those are from April polls by ABC News/Washington Post, McClatchy-Marist, and USA Today/Gallup, respectively.)
Nice deflection we were debating FACTS, not poll numbers…you assert that raising taxes will bring in MORE revenue, not that many folks support it. I assert that raising taxes will NOT increase revenue and will further hurt job creation…who cares what Rasmussen polls it at?
"U.S. auto factories produced fewer goods in June than the previous month, and overall factory production was flat. It marked the third straight month of weak output.."
Obama is awesome!
This is a lie. The republicans did not balk at a deficit reduction. They balked at new taxes.
So tax increases do not cut deficits?
"...Reagan didn't raise taxes 4 times. He raised them 11 times, and signed the largest corporate tax increase in history....'
If we wasn't such s fervent anti communist you'd probaby have a shrine to him.
garage mahal said..."'You are a liar.' You keep saying that, prove it fuckface"
No, you cocksucking liar. Fuck you and your Alinsky bullshit. YOU take your original statement:
Obama, according to reports wanted a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal. Repubs balked.
and YOU defend it, or YOU retract it as a lie by omission meant to mislead the reader.
or I will call you out as a liar the next time you say it - and you will, in almost those exact terms - and every time you do after that. Because you don't argue with a boil. You don't bother trying to prove the boil is pustulent. You lance it.
(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)
So tax increases do not cut deficits?
They didn’t under Reagan, did they NOR did they reduce them under Clinton. Thank you for contributing though.
Sure IN THEORY more money in, would reduce deficits and then the debt, but the PRAXIS IS, more money in, simply means that Washington SPENDS THAT MONEY AND A BIT MORE….
We Republican/Conservatives are beginning to catch on, but you don’t seem to have yet.
garage: Seriously, you must understand how juvenile it is to count up the number of tax changes regardless of how big they were. It's a dumb as counting the number of times the debt ceiling has been raised.
The point is this: We are currently devoting an unprecedented part of GDP to the government, and we are covering the entire increase by borrowing. This is unsustainable, and everyone knows it. If we're going to keep the size of the federal government within its historical share of GDP, then we've got to cut spending dramatically. If we don't do that, then we've got to impose European levels of taxation.
If you compare European incomes and growth rates to ours since around 1970, you'll see that what we're now experiencing will be the new normal in terms of growth and employment.
We are approaching a time when half the population will not pay Federal Income Tax. What possible justification is there to exempt such a huge percentage from a fundamental obligation of citizenship? Marco Rubio is on point when he suggests that we need more tax payers. We need to bring more of these people into the workforce and have them participate in the economy. The non taxpayer will always vote for a higher tax and will always be polled.
garage mahal said...The republicans did not balk at a deficit reduction. They balked at new taxes.
'So tax increases do not cut deficits?'
Address and defend your original statement as written or admit that you were lying, retract, and apologize.
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