The only real difference, instead, is that Mr. Boehner’s bill would require Congress to approve another increase in the debt limit early next year if it fails to approve the fiscal commission’s recommendations, while Mr. Reid’s would extend the deadline beyond the end of President Obama’s first term in one fell swoop. The bills differ, in other words, in whether there will be another vote on the debt ceiling before next year’s elections.
July 28, 2011
"It’s All Over but the Face-Saving?"
Says Nate Silver?
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96 comments:
Cutting off your nose to....
So, Obamalamadingdong is looking political about this and endangering the nation's economy just so he can try to make re-election easier?
just so he can try to make re-election easier?
What else has he got to run on?
Thanks, Obamacare!!!
"Two-thirds of health trusts in England are rationing treatments for "non-urgent" conditions as part of the drive to reduce costs in the NHS by £20bn over the next four years.
Hip replacements, cataract surgery and tonsil removal are among operations now being rationed in a bid to save the NHS money.
"
Eat your goddamned peas, oldsters.
Where is Mick?
KABUKI KABUKI KABUKI
Dance faster you sheeple.
Nate glosses over whether Reid counting money we weren't going to spend in the Afghan war anyway should count as a cut, as opposed to cutting something the rating agencies/bond markets hadn't already discounted as spent. Nate calls this accounting instead of what could more be accurately a flim flam.
Also, their's no real guarantee we won't end up spending the Afghan money anyway given the course of world events.
Not that most of these numbers aren't film flam until someone doesn't get sent a check who was going to get one. Or at least a smaller one.
There's a fight going on for the soul of the Republican party. There's no such fight going on for the soul of the Democratic party, such soul having long ago been sold to the devil.
The economy should most definitely be a campaign issue at all levels of the 2012 election--those who will benefit will support Boehner-even those in "tough" elections.
It's hard to imagine a greater election issue than this next but when what's at stake is at stake, who know? Lots of room for nefarians.
_____________
wv = "auntsh" Tom loathed speaking "auntsh" to Aunt Polly, except when getting something he wanted was at stake. Then he was more glib than Nate.
Don't you just love the new transparent way things are being done under Obama??
Via Instapundit:
All 53 Senate Dems sign letter to Boehner: Your bill will never pass
Hip replacements, cataract surgery and tonsil removal are among operations now being rationed in a bid to save the NHS money.
the real question is can u pay for them OOP?
The economic disaster that Obama has intentionally made worse is the hot potato.
Obama is trying to use the Tea Party hard nose's righteous demand for a fix right now as a way to shift the blame for the economy off Obama and on to them.
And the little darlings are going along with Obama.
The election that counts is 15 months away.
The smart politicians like Boehner know that the fix can only be done after a Senate majority and a GOP President gives them the power needed to fix it.
The hard line Tea Party debt ceiling warriors need to stop helping Obama get re-elected.
No state-run institution can do so, Seeing Red.
That's the point.
The Democrats and GOP think it can go on forever.
England just learned the freebies are over.
It's far from over. As Paul Ryan says, the debate has changed from how much are we going to spend to how much are we going to cut with the big spenders on the defensive, so even if the "cuts" so far is only about cutting the size of the increases, the direction is in the process of changing.
Kind of like maneuvering the Exxon Valdez in Prince William Sound, we will probably make it, but there is also a good chance of going aground with less than skillful navigation.
Nobody knows what to do.
Obamalamadingdong! Can't describe him any better than that.
Sort of a 50s teen age heart throb!
Or let them leave the country for surgery.
True story - mom recently ran in to an old co-worker, they caught up.
He's Danish, so he kept in contact w/his relatives over there.
Denmark does NOT allow you to leave the country for treatment.
I forgot what the disease was, so this guy sold everything, packed up his family, moved to NJ for treatment & when he was well, moved back.
And Big Sis LIED when she said under Obamacare we could sue - Reg V or Article 5 - no suing.
The King will dole out what he/she sees fit for the great unwashed masses.
"Thanks, Obamacare!!!
" Blah blah nonsequitur blah blah rationing by health trusts in England of non-urgent services."
And...the connection is?
"There's a fight going on for the soul of the Republican party."
Hahahahaha!
The Republican Party has no soul.
If you want to be like the rest of the world, you can't say, after you've been warned that this is what a policy you want will lead to, it can't happen here.
Cos it will.
IF it happens there in much smaller countries, it's gonna happen here on a much grander scale.
wv: Centa
not a centa grey matter amongst them.
Nobody knows what to do.
I've heard intelligence best described as what happens when you don't know what to do next. It seems an apt time to bring it up.
"The private health insureres will dole out what (they) see fit for the great unwashed masses."
I fixed that for you.
"And...the connection is?"
Sorry, Cook.
Socialists are inherently unable to see the connections between their ideology and the inevitable downstream damage it causes.
It's those statist lenses, blocking out the UV rays of truth.
The connection is Canada, Mr. Cook.
Maybe U should read their papers on occasion.
& they have only 32 million people.
Or any Anglosphere paper - our cousins are more socialistic than we (were.)
Great that angioplasty availability was coming to Windsor, Canada in 2008,
I think the title of the movie was "Barbarians at the Gate"
about the Canadian NHS, in french, c.1984
The hard line Tea Party debt ceiling warriors need to stop helping Obama get re-elected.
Yes!
"The private health insureres will dole out what (they) see fit for the great unwashed masses."
I fixed that for you
Except that I can sue them.
You might try lenses made by Adam Smith or FA Hayek.
Then you'll be able to see clearly, perhaps for the first time.
Neither Pogo nor Seeing Red answered the question, although they pretended to.
I guess you guys don't have an answer...just throwing out baseless suggestions that Obamneycare--which I oppose--is some sort of socialized or government provided health care...which you both know it is not.
"The hard line Tea Party debt ceiling warriors need to stop helping Obama get re-elected."
If Americans are still so stupid as to re-elect Obama or any tax-n-spenders in the GOP or Democratic field, we're doomed anyway.
Why don't U go find the article from the early 2000s in the Canadian papers about how dogs & cats were getting MRIs faster than humans?
Or the saga of the guy who was in the motorcycle accident around 2005 - I think his name was Dan & they let him go home for about 9 months, IIRC, w/a fist-sized hole in his brain?
They finally put a plate in, poor guy thought his brain would fall out.
Cook, none are so blind as those who will not see.
What?
LOLOLOLOL
U don't like the answer and yes, that's what Obamacare is specifically designed to do.
He's on YT in the 2000s telling everyone exactly what he wanted & how long he thought it was going to take.
is some sort of socialized or government provided health care...which you both know it is not.
Glad you oppose it, but it doesn't matter if it's socialized medicine or not. It's horribly damaging and a move toward a one-payer system.
Neither bill reduces our debt at all. A more honest press would report the bills as "increasing our debt by $6 billion over the next ten years, instead of the planned $7 billion increase." I invented those numbers, but the point is that both bills simply reduce the rate of our debt increase. Neither bill reduces our actual debt at all. In short, both bills are happy horseshit to wave in front of the people as we go further and further into debt.
However, the Boehner bill is a stronger bill, for a couple of reasons. One, it requires a vote on a balanced budget amendment to our Constitution. And two, it requires the Congress to vote on the committee's debt-reduction proposal (which might include tax increases). And a failure to pass that would mean raising the debt ceiling again. So Boehner's bill would require the tea party folks to decide which means most to them, no new taxes or actual debt reduction.
Harry's "plan" does nothing whatsoever. We're still increasing our debt by billions over the next ten years. Harry's bill merely tries to kick the debt issue until after the 2012 election. And the problem with this is that there is an economic reality outside this political horseshit.
At some point Moody's and the S&P will have to lower our bond ratings for the first time in history. And when that happens, look out.
Buy silver if you're worried. And you should be.
The hard line Tea Party debt ceiling warriors need to stop helping Obama get re-elected.
Exactly
Republicans can be such wussies.
Buy silver if you're worried. And you should be.
Once we wrap up the trouble in Afghanistan we'll reap the benefits of a renewed peace dividend. It will be like the whole county got a raise. Kind of like when the last kid finally gets a job and moves out of the house.
"(Obamneycare) is horribly damaging and a move toward a one-payer system."
No, it is not a move toward a one-payer system. It keeps the private health insurers involved in the health care delivery process. In fact, Obamneycare gifts the insurers with whole new populations of customers who will be mandated by law to buy their private insurance products (or be fined). As is the case with many products they already provide, these Obamney Policies will surely be dear in price and poor in benefits.
Would that it were a move toward a one-payer system.
You guys just believe any kind of shit you want to believe, don't you?
"Would that it were a move toward a one-payer system."
You mean, like the one that just told granny in England that she can't have knee surgery for her disabling knee pain, and has to just suck it up?
Why do you hate people so, Cook?
Would that it were a move toward a one-payer system.
Listen to the people that backed it, our current president not the least of them. THEY seem to think it's a move toward single-payer.
""increasing our debt by $6 billion over the next ten years, instead of the planned $7 billion increase."
saint croix, you mean trillion, not billion!
Why do you hate people so, Cook?
They refuse to live up to his commie ideals!
He's brilliant, you know. Hates both parties and thinks our government is completely corrupt.
Solution: Concede all economic power to the government!
The solution to government failure is always more government.
Boehner should be smelling his pits right now like Otto in a Fish Called Wanda. Or maybe he is more like Ken Pile...
But this can be summed up with...
DISAPPOINTED
Once we wrap up the trouble in Afghanistan we'll reap the benefits of a renewed peace dividend.
Why wait? How about we stop lobbing 1.41 million-dollar-each cruise missiles at Libya?
I like the Coburn plan best ($9T reduction ($10.4M in LIMO savings? Really?)) But of course that's not getting talked about AT ALL.
I'd settle for Boehner's fluffery at this point to advance the ball and keep the discussion on the table next year.
saint croix, you mean trillion, not billion!
yes, that's right, thanks.
20 Billion dollars is a lot in almost every single context, except the budget deficit and debt. Arguing about 20 billion vs. 30 billion in cuts, front loaded or not means only that eventually, the US will go belly up. The 14 trillion debt will only go up, and eventually overwhelm the US. Our political class is, apparently powerless to do anything about it.
Tell me when the publish the list of $500B in cuts for next year.
That would be a plan.
What they're discussing is:
KABUKI.
Hat tip: Mick
I'd settle for Boehner's fluffery at this point to advance the ball and keep the discussion on the table next year.
Uncertainty in the markets!
I like the penny plan.
http://mack.house.gov/index.cfm?p=PressReleases&ContentRecord_id=14d5b552-47e6-44f3-9c00-c038841dd57b
"Listen to the people that backed it, our current president not the least of them. THEY seem to think it's a move toward single-payer."
Can you provide some cites?
The hard line Tea Party debt ceiling warriors need to stop helping Obama get re-elected.
With Reid's threat, this is becoming obvious - we've got all we can get - now we line up behind Boehner and take the win. Next stop:
The White House, for all the marbles.
”In Jesus’ Name: Boogity Boogity Boogity, Amen!”
As I say, the Boehner bill was never intended to pass, but somebody thought it might be embarrassing if it was the Tea Partiers that killed it, so it was sweetened - a very little.
This is the DC mentality that, once a measure is started, you don't stop it - "But we have to have a bill".
Not if it's a bad one.
Saint Croix said...
Neither bill reduces our debt at all.
Exactly.
We need debt reduction, not deficit reduction (although neither does this, either).
The CAFE standards just ordered by the Obama planners mean that Ford autos and trucks will become illegal while GM's line of electrical toys will be legal.
It is the law. Do the impossible Ford, or die off!
Once GM has taken the monopoly by default, then GM's government regulators next step is to make GM offers they cannot refuse.
Apply that strategy to Health Insurance Companies, Cookie.
That is no myth to be laughed down. That is how we are being destroyed.
Yeah, I'd go for that too, St Croix. Bad link though. Here's" Mack's proposal.
He...(h)ates both parties and thinks our government is completely corrupt.
"Solution: Concede all economic power to the government!
"The solution to government failure is always more government."
No...one cannot NOT have government, and, as designed, our government is pretty good as governments go.
The corruption of entrenched parties, both servile lackeys to the financial elites, does not render our form of government invalid.
The solution to bad government is good government.
That is, government working as representatives of and for the people, and not as puppets of and for the financial elites who are hollowing us out from the inside, looting our wealth for their gain.
Can you provide some cites?
I particularly love it when Kookie, the commie, pretends that he's interested in academics.
Clever move, Kookie!
That is, government working as representatives of and for the people, and not as puppets of and for the financial elites who are hollowing us out from the inside, looting our wealth for their gain.
Dream on, Kookie.
What you haven't grasped is that the problem is a moral failure in humans.
The poor, given money and power, will become just as corrupt as those who are currently rich and powerful.
You are at war with human nature. That's the problem with commies, Kookie. You just think that you're the benign version of Stalin. It's the common delusion of the commie.
suggestions that Obamneycare--which I oppose--is some sort of socialized or government provided health care...which you both know it is not.
Then you should be able to decline it.
Can you ?
Boehner's plan isn't going to pass the senate.
I think traditionalguy has it right: Obama does not want anything to pass. He wants a default, or something that he can plausibly label a default. Then one quick call to Soros, and the next day we have economic meltdown, and it can be laid at the feet of the Republicans.
It's the only way Obama sees of winning re-election, and it aligns well with his other long-term goal of bringing the US to its knees.
Neither bill reduces our debt at all.
It's politics (which, I know, is a lot like saying, "it's Chinatown, Jake") but you play the hand you're dealt as best you can.
We have them boxed in. That's what we get this time - take it.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. November, people. Go for the win.
Pastafarian,
Boehner's plan isn't going to pass the senate.
Bullshit - it's a threat, not a promise. Let them have to explain why not - without uttering the word "election" - if it's such an emergency. (The same strategy that sank AGW.)
Take it - they lose - that's what matters.
Mr. Boehner is a CON ARTIST. When this is over a lot of Americans will compare notes ... and see that he uses clothing to look sharp and dandy. He uses words to sooth. He's a walking PR machine.
He's in the speaker's office because he's got SENIORITY. Which is what Senator Byrd had. And, Teddy Kennedy had. Until they dropped dead.
Sometimes the elections become a farce. And, in these "no contest" sites ... the likes of Pelosi. Boxer. Boehner. Byrd (was). And, Teddy (was). All returned to Congress. Where on each return they advance higher up the ladder.
When a newcomer comes to DC they are told to play ball! Or they'll get none of the re-election money they need. And, they won't get to serve on "good" committees. Where the laws are written. Then, when it "gets out of committee" it is rubber stamped.
Boehner was part of the boomlet that sent the debt into the stratosphere. Pick your program:
He was FOR TARP. He was for the business going into EVERY CHILD'S BEHIND. He helped Dubya raise the debt sky high.
Man doesn't like to work hard, either. He has the inside reputation of being drunk and lazy. And, Big Tobacco and Big Pharma own his ass!
This "compromise" is an idea that "slowly" the debt ceiling will rise. And, be covered with NEW TAXES.
But the games will have new names. Just like Boehner's nice new ties.
The stupid party doesn't want to change.
But they want your vote!
What they don't want is for newcomers to come in and PURPOSELY say ... your stinking rules book is going out the window! You hacks are not going to establish who sits on committees ...
And, to really CUT ... we're gonna cut EVERYTHING 1% across the board.
Me? I think Sarah Palin will tell the truth.
And, as long as you see Karl Rove on TV ... you'll know the stupid party has no intention of letting you into their tent! (The stupid party doesn't mind being in the minority, either!) Because they'll get good seats ... and good offices ... when Nancy Pelosi gets back into the speaker's office. That's why she hung around.
That's why Boehner as speaker is gonna be temporary.
That's why the stupid party will probably pick another loser ... like Mitt, or Perry ... As if this country wants another man from Texas or Massachusetts ... back in charge.
Oh, yeah. The showdown with Boehner is an obama win! They figured out that Boehner was ALL HAT, NO BRAINS. And, as good looking as he is ... he really can't stir up "the faithful."
He can just pose.
Next time, ask to look at his voting record! He's been in da' House since 1995. He knows how to play the insider's game.
And, none of the insiders care!
What price do you think the CON ARTIST pays, now? (Yeah. If Obama uses the 14th Amendment ... "to act alone" ... an impeachment idea is stupider than the one to go after Clinton.)
But the stupid party never learns.
"Then you should be able to decline it.
"Can you ?"
If you have insurance already, yes.
It requires persons who presently do not have insurance to BUY PRIVATE INSURANCE from PRIVATE insurers.
It is the govt. acting as pimp for private business interests. It is not "govt. provided insurance," not "socialized medicine," or whatever other fever dreams you would like to pretend it is.
Pogo,
If you think "Obamacare" sets up anything remotely like the NHS, it's you who are the blind one.
What Pasta said. All of it.
Although I don't think Dr Evil can bring down the system all by himself, but I do think he knows something's coming. After all, last year he was gloating about "having a wonderful recession"; this year, he's bailing from his hedge fund biz.
"Obama does not want anything to pass. He wants a default, or something that he can plausibly label a default. Then one quick call to Soros, and the next day we have economic meltdown, and it can be laid at the feet of the Republicans."
Won't work. The tantrums and the Mediscare have blown up in his face.
Robert Cook said...
The corruption of entrenched parties, both servile lackeys to the financial elites, does not render our form of government invalid.
Good Lord, Cook, that kind of rhetoric died at Stalingrad.
Jim, your concern-trolling is almost sweet and endearing in its vast ignorance, as if you were born in 1890 or something, unaware of all that came after, like some socialist reenactment club re-doing 1917.
I think I am getting to like my analogy above about the Exxon Valdez in Prince William Sound.
And the captain is in his cabin, having a bottle of O'Douls.
No one really has "health insurance" what he have is a variation on "pre-paid medical". It all started with the HMOs. Used to be that one would buy health insurance that covered emergencies and hospitalization. It was mainly called "hospitalization insurance".
Families would take their children to the pediatrician and pay the bill out of pocket, either right then and there, or withing 10 or 30 days, or over time if the fee were higher.
You'd go to the doctor and pay the bill.
If you needed to go to the hospital or had an emergency from as little as a sprain (because you don't know if it's broken or not) to a heart attack or stroke, insurance would cover those much higher, unexpected costs.
And the "pre-paid" insurance I have really isn't that either... I have a high deductible and generally don't ever reach the limit during the calendar year. So I pay anyway.
just for the word verification:
belly
"Good Lord, Cook, that kind of rhetoric died at Stalingrad."
Do you deny that both parties are rotted with entrenched corruption, that the Democrats are now also as servile to the financial elites as the Republicans have always been?
Cookie...You are obtuse if you cannot see that the ObamaCare ALSO requires that an insurer provide a list of benefits at a cost that will destroy them. Meanwhile the government offers a cheaper plan.
It is like Ford doing a fleet of electric cars mandated by CAFE that ends Ford's profitability.
The bottom line is that only the government can cut costs by cooking its bankrupt books. The private corporations must lose.
When Rockerfeller did that with The Standard Oil Trust it was deemed a criminal act.
When Obama/Pelosi do it with health care it is just as bad.
belly
Completely overrated early 90's alt rocker.
Robert Cook said...
"Good Lord, Cook, that kind of rhetoric died at Stalingrad."
Do you deny that both parties are rotted with entrenched corruption, that the Democrats are now also as servile to the financial elites as the Republicans have always been?
They have a Starbuck's right on site at the Daily Worker, don't they?
The Republicans have always been pro-business, if that's what you mean and there have always been people who could be bought. Those are the people called RINOs - and a lot of people hate them.
But the whole idea of the Tea Partiers is to stop that.
Instead of whining, getting involved seems a little more constructive.
And, yes, you do need to cut down on the caffeine.
I guess you guys don't have an answer...just throwing out baseless suggestions that Obamneycare--which I oppose--is some sort of socialized or government provided health care...which you both know it is not.
More like how fascists handle corporations, innit?
"Cookie...You are obtuse if you cannot see that the ObamaCare ALSO requires that an insurer provide a list of benefits at a cost that will destroy them. Meanwhile the government offers a cheaper plan."
Help me be less obtuse: point me to where Obamney Care mandates the prices insurers must offer, and tell me how I can see this will destroy them.
What cheaper plan does the government offer? There is no new government provided medical plan offered by Obamney Care, although for indigent citizens who cannot afford to buy private insurance, the government will, I believe, provide vouchers they can use to buy private insurance.
That is, government working as representatives of and for the people, and not as puppets of and for the financial elites who are hollowing us out from the inside, looting our wealth for their gain.
BWAAAA
Yet they're coming after our 401s
so we can provide this health care system U seem to think exists.
Bamster's on YT talking about it, c. 2003? 2005?
Help me be less obtuse: point me to where Obamney Care mandates the prices insurers must offer, and tell me how I can see this will destroy them.
what about mandated procedures? What the insurance companies must cover?
Right now, all our medical info is being sent to the gov so they can mine everything.
My nurse friend explained it so much better, but I don't remember everything.
we're gonna be divvie'd up by areas. in the end & everything will be allotted. you're number 5801 and they only alot 5800, sucks to be u take a pill for the pain and lump it.
U can't sue the government if they say no.
it's in the bill that we had to sign to find out what's in it.
I figured by now that's the only difference. I think Boehner should give in. Why?
1) if there is any delay in SS or mil pymts, the Reps will be (unfairly) blamed and could stain their ability to do future things in Congress
2) it's a non-victory for O anyway, as it will be economy he will be judged for next year. Not many people believe in his hope and change now
Meanwhile the government offers a cheaper plan.
& will decide what & how much they're gonna cover.
Cook, please don't be naive. We'll be allowed to keep our private insurance only until prices "necessarily skyrocket" under Obamacare. My premiums have already increased due to the requirement that insurers extend coverage to "children" up to age 26 under their parents' plans (I don't have a family plan, but the company spread the extra costs among all its policy holders). HHS is now floating the idea that all birth control should be "free", as well as HIV and STD treatments. There's no such thing as "free"; suckers like us who can pay will cover the costs. Obama's goal is to price private health insurance out of the market so the government can step in and take over. Voila! Single-payer health care.
like the mortgage industry, the insurance industry will process the paperwork.
who controls the reigns?
Help me be less obtuse
OK.
Remember when Obamacare was sold as the way to bend the cost curve? Only idiots believed that, but there are lots of those, and they all cited it as the sensible reason for supporting the unread bill. Those of us who called "bullshit" on the claim were, as usual, denounced as ideologues. Well, that lie has already been exposed.
You ask to be shown how insurance regulations can hurt insurers when the prices they charge are not regulated. It's simple, really. Step 1: Impose all sorts of seemingly innocuous requirements, like the child's-coverage-until-age-26 provision. Step 2: Watch what happens to insurers' costs as adverse selection works its magic and people make rational choices such as high-risk-of-pregnancy 20-somethings staying on their parents' plan instead of buying their own coverage. Step 3: Watch the President go on TV to bemoan the shocking rise in health-insurance premiums imposed by greedy private insurers. Watch him explain why a single-payer system is the only sensible solution.
You see, some of us evaluate today's policy proposals in terms of their likely consequences rather than their stated intentions. Oh, and so do your allies. They even sometimes take off the mask.
"Meanwhile the government offers a cheaper plan."
Again...what is this "cheaper plan" whereof you speak?
Hedge funds aren't alone DYING on Wall Street! The retail investors have not returned! Nor are they going to be coming back anytime soon.
Businesses that feed on commissions to be successful, are slumping down the toilet drain, now!
The ZOMBIE ECONOMY means flatline.
No up's and down.'s No trenches. No place to hide. Or to make a commission buying and selling this stuff.
We're probably looking at this scheme of things for another 20 years ahead.
So?
So, if you buy a home you have to expect to own it now, for a generation or two. Or when you go to sell it, again, YOU LOSE MONEY. Because your investment has been shrunk to size.
The entire DC operation hasn't changed one whit!
Just in case you think the GOP elites didn't play ball with Dubya ... who thought they were riding high. But were only really riding on a bubble.
Who will "win" ahead?
Not Boehner! He forgot what got him into the speaker's office, in the first place!
The "compromise" is fake. It's on par with trying to kick the can down the road ... while RAISING TAXES!
On both sides of the congressional aisle, all they know is how to "get checks" from the big guys.
This hasn't been changed ... anymore than the rules for playing golf has changed.
And, as long as most people can't see the CON ... the game will continue, apace. Newcomers to DC? They'll always be shoved aside by the system! Where the rules give the best offices, and assignments, to those who come from safe districts ...
UNTIL THEY DROP DEAD.
You really should avail yourselves of looking up Boehner's voting record!
Chip--
Your explanation to help Robert Cook be less obtuse is a Chess explanation. I think Robert is more a Checkers kind of guy.
"Cook, please don't be naive. We'll be allowed to keep our private insurance only until prices 'necessarily skyrocket' under Obamacare...Obama's goal is to price private health insurance out of the market so the government can step in and take over. Voila! Single-payer health care."
In your paranoid fantasies, perhaps, but this is not Obama's goal at all. He is not playing 4th Dimensional Chess with an inscrutable long-term socialist outcome as his intended endgame (as his supporters sometimes suppose to explain to themselves why he does things that seem to be favorable to the financial elites and which would be considered good Republican policy if he were George Bush or Ronald Reagan).
He does what he does in order to benefit private businesses.
Obamney Care benefits the health insurers by providing them a captive new customer base of citizens who do not currently pay insurance premiums.
The "bluffs" and "counter-bluffs."
Everybody at the table is an INSIDER!
The outcome is a fight between the stupid party elites. And, the driven socialists who control the democrapic apparatus.
WE. ALL. LOSE. KAPISH?
When you recover from your shock, go and check out Boehner's voting record!
IT. IS. ALL. THERE.
DC is a CON GAME. YOU LOSE.
So far, I'm hearing vague generalities and rank speculation, but no hard information to demonstrate how Obamney Care is the sinister first step leading inevitably to (dunh! dunh! dunh!) "socialized medicine!"
Shorter Cook: "Prove that I intend to drive this car off a cliff, Thelma. We're still on land, as you can plainly see."
Rumpletweezer, I think he's mostly a fingers-in-ears-la-la-I-can't-hear-you kind of guy.
Stupid response of the day:
Jay Carney labeling "The Boehner Bill" a political act.
Well, yeah, duh!
Hagar,
As Paul Ryan says, the debate has changed from how much are we going to spend to how much are we going to cut ...
I wish you were correct.
The only change is that we're spending more and more money while claiming we're cutting spending.
Robert Cook @ 10:10,
Well done, sir!
It should have never been over such low stakes!
I hope enough people have learned enough ... to know there's no cuts that's gonna happen.
While, Penn & Teller do their routines better.
The good news is that I don't think that many people lost any sleep.
This thread went from a discussion of the debt ceiling bill to Let's Educate Robert "The Communist" Cook On ObamaCare.
It's like Liberals can lead you by the nose without even trying.
What's wrong with you people?
Take the damn Boehner Bill!!!!!!
"This thread went from a discussion of the debt ceiling bill to Let's Educate Robert 'The Communist' (sic) Cook On ObamaCare."
It was hardly that, if judged by success of means or outcome.
It was another display of the degree to which hobgoblins rule the minds of people one might otherwise mistake for rational.
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