The NYT reports on "broad rollback of benefits for 750,000 [New Jersey] workers and retirees, the deepest cut in state and local costs in memory":
While states around the country have moved to pare labor costs and limit the power of unions, the move is all the more striking here, in a Democratic-leaning state where Democrats control both houses of the Legislature and union membership is among the highest in the country.
And the protests?
On Thursday, thousands of people wearing union T-shirts and buttons filled the Assembly visitors’ gallery, the State House corridors and, in a high-decibel protest, the sidewalks, lawns and streets around the building. A procession down State Street included a hearse draped with a banner saying “The Soul of the Democratic Party,” and organizers with bullhorns led the crowd in chants of “We’ll remember in November!” and “Kill the bill!”...
Until recently, the public employee unions were among the most feared forces in state politics. They were a major source of votes, campaign cash and foot soldiers for Democrats, but officials in both parties were eager to please them. For years, governors and legislators from both parties sweetened their pension benefits but did not put any money into the system to pay for them.
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82 comments:
At long last, the parasites may not be allowed to kill the host.
Correction: A major victory for the taxpayers of New Jersey.
Aside from politicians who got money from them, is there really anyone out there who loves "public employees"? How many trips to the DMV does it take to divest a human being of any love for state employees?
I mean, you gotta admire a coal miner, but state employees are really the low hanging fruit of boorishness.
"Until recently, the public employee unions were among the most feared forces in state politics."
Then they ran out of other people's money.
I have many friends who are state and local public employees in New Jersey.
Most of them concede that NJ taxpayers have simply been sucked dry and that the till is empty.
In most rankings, NJ is the highest tax state in the country.
Property taxes are astronomical in NJ
Since I know so many public employees in NJ, I also know that they enjoy short working hours, every conceivable paid holiday, extensive vacation time, gold plated benefits and incredible pensions that are inflated by artificially ratcheting up their grade level in their final two years before retirement.
This is just one step in the right direction. Still a long way to go.
"Republicans and a few Democrats defied raucous protests by thousands of people whose chants ..."
Sounds like bipartisan agreement to me that state employees are too greedy. Even Democrats agreed and voted to eviscerate the corrupt union thugs.
It has happened in most states and cities and I think it is close to criminal. Some of these longtime pols should go to jail for ignoring basic arithmetic and using gimmicks to hide their malfeasance.
Yes, well... the teachers union should have never said they wished Christie was dead and then expected him to suck it up.
Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!!
Yah-hay-hay! It's a beautiful world, where the rich elites rule and working people eat shit!
Let me be perfectly clear: fuck these unions.
Cook: Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!!
Taxpaying non-Union working people and retirees were getting screwed.
Yah-hay-hay! It's a beautiful world, where the rich elites rule and working people eat shit!
Oh please. Like you give a rats ass about the working class.
When the union slugs got out and chanted, "Raise out taxes", meaning raise their (the working public's) taxes, that was the end.
Christie was going to have all the support he wanted.
Robert Cook said...
Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!!
No, dear, the real working people and the real retirees finally got a break.
(they're a little slow at the Daily Worker)
"Robert Cook said...
Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!!
Yah-hay-hay! It's a beautiful world, where the rich elites rule and working people eat shit!"
This has certainly been democrats goal for decades. One wonders why Cookie supports it. Probably because he's never worked a day in his life.
Government isn't "The Man". Government is the oppressed working class getting screwed over by private enterprise.
If private enterprise weren't so inherently selfish, wanting to keep what it earned, then Government would have enough money for everything.
Get with it!
Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!!
Yah-hay-hay! It's a beautiful world, where the rich elites rule and working people eat shit!
You can't be serious, Kookie. Do you have any idea what kind of salaries and benefits public employees in NJ get?
Really, you have the nerve to use that foolish rhetoric?
"I mean, you gotta admire a coal miner,.."
Yes, you do.
"... but state employees are really the low hanging fruit of boorishness."
Particularly when they hang so tightly to the coat-tails of the coal miner.
I live in NY and thus I'm more familiar with the days and works of Christie than those of Walker. Based on this superficial knowledge I would like advance the opinion that Christie was more effective than Walker. Christie made his points with more humor and swagger. It is very difficult to play the prole card on Christie. He speaks in blunt, direct terms, and you know who he is.
Sometimes, Kookie, I think you must be pretending to be a fucking moron.
It's just an act, right?
Nobody is really that stupid. Can't be.
What part of the fact that there is no public money to pay for these lavish benefits do the protesters fail to understand?
On tax increases, I have come around to accepting the theory that any and every tax scheme will get a maximum of about 20 percent of GDP.
@Robert Cook:
[yawn]
Really, assclown? That's the best you can come up with?
Yeah. Right.
Power to da peoples, bitches!
Chris Christie- American hero.
What part of the fact that there is no public money to pay for these lavish benefits do the protesters fail to understand?
Pfft. Michael Moore explained it. The money exists, it just shouldn't belong to those who earned it.
To springboard off of Shouting Thomas:
I have been trying to find an affordable house that's a convenient commute to my office in Jersey City. In the $250,000 price area, in the NJ counties that are near New York City, you can expect an annual property tax bill of anywhere from $5,000 to nearly $7,000 per year -- an extra $500/month going into your house payment.
Go across the Bayonne Bridge to Staten Island NY, and the annual property tax bill for the same price house drops to around $2,300.
So, moving to New York City, I can afford more house for the same house payment.
New Jersey property taxes are brutal for everyone. NJ Democrats may be venal but they're not stupid. Everyone here knows that what Christie is doing has to be done, period. Corzine didn't have the balls to do it. And having a Republican governor do the hard stuff gives Democrat legislators political cover -- the cowardly shmucks.
When that Clarke fella, in District #42, got recorded on the call he made to a constituent; asking her if she heard about the recall ...
And, her response was "SUCH A CRIME" ... you're getting a peek iside what "volunteers" face, now ... when they go door to door ... Or do the phone routine from phone banks. And, the receptions are hostile.
It's just a few weeks away, for Madison'r recall elections ... (Chosen to fall on two different days ... because democraps have no idea of what's an advantage. And, what isn't.)
But the rest of us have to wait for the results to come in.
Will voters be handed pre-printed ballots? And, told "thank you for coming. Please drop this in the box. We have no pencils."
Even Sumi is in a pickle. She knows where her reputation went inside the legal community.
Can't fool me.
The NYT admits that unions benefit the Dems?
That's kinda big.
"Although they successfully convinced top lawmakers to remove a controversial provision restricting public workers’ access to out-of-state medical care,..."
???
"And having a Republican governor do the hard stuff gives Democrat legislators political cover -- the cowardly shmucks."
The hard work was initially done by Christie as he systematically worked his way around the entire state to talk with the taxpayers about the 2011 "facts of life" in NJ. The man is an exceptional communicator, and fast on his feet, even among hostile audiences.
That's all well and good, but the remarkable thing was that he managed to get the most important names in the Democratic Party to support him in his frontal attack against the teacher's union. That's HUGE, and frankly, a testament to the leaders of both parties.
Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!!
I know it's hard taking that 1st step into the real world, Mr. Cook, but U have to grow up some time.
They're not special.
It's time to share the pain.
Only fair since the bamster wants to "share the wealth."
I live in NY and thus I'm more familiar with the days and works of Christie than those of Walker. Based on this superficial knowledge I would like advance the opinion that Christie was more effective than Walker
Christie would play in Wisconsin about as well as Walker would play in New Jersey.
Different places and attitudes.
wv: bingninl
The Bing? Google is creepy.
I am loving it!
It's a "United Front" against unions!
As a Virginian, I despise unions, and am very thankful to live in a Right To Work state.
I hope Wisconsin and New Jersey are headed in that direction.
Ann Coulter is a chubby presidential chaser!
"The NYT admits that unions benefit the Dems?
"That's kinda big."
Only if you haven't been paying attention since the 1930s. The unions have always been one of the Dems' main constituencies, along with blacks and the working class.
Of course, in recent decades, while continuing to speak as if they were still concerned with and working for their core constituencies, the Dems have been largely abandoning them to chase after the same core constituencies who have traditionally been served by the Republicans: the wealthy elites, the bankers, Wall St., etc. This is why we essentially have but one party today, (a reality that has been stated before by many others). This uniparty martkets itself in different areas and to different audiences as slightly (but not fundamentally) differentiated products, like Coke and Diet Coke.
"Yay! Hooray! Boo-fucking-yah!! Working people and retirees are getting fucked big-time!! It's a beautiful world, where the rich elites rule and working people eat shit!"
Since when are rich government hacks "working people?"
You're not "working people." You're the government. You're The Man. You're the leaches getting 6-figure salaries and 7-figure pensions with our money.
Robert ... this "schtick" that somehow the government is full of "working people" isn't flying.
We're the working people.
Not you.
We're mad as hell and we're not paying any more.
Fred4Pres said...
Ann Coulter is a chubby presidential chaser!
The same thing hit me yesterday. The whole, "It's Christie or we're stuck with Milton", thing seems only explainable that way.
In the interest of accuracy, I should note that property taxes are a local issue in New Jersey.
Christie is shoring up state finances and battling the NJ Education Association union. He has also pushed through a statewide property tax increase cap that really doesn't force the issue of making local governments reform their budgets -- they may feel a little pain now, but it's a law that can be rescinded if the next governor is a Democrat.
So in some ways there is less to Christie than meets the eye. But he's still the best governor that NJ has had since Alfred E. Driscoll.
I'm sort of in the same place as our 19th century labor movement throwback Robert Cook (please shoot me). On the federal level, the Democrats and Republicans do come across like Fascist and Fascist Lite. But the Tea Party movement is likely to reform the GOP. Will Goldman Sachs ever reform the Democrats?
Say what you want to about Christie, he's the first Gov in my time in Jersey to take on the unions, and furthermore he won.
Name another prominent GOP-er who has done more.
"Will Goldman Sachs ever reform the Democrats?"
I'm simultaneously laughing and scratching my head at this surrealist koan. What does it mean?
The entire top management and board at Goldman Sachs should be arrested en masse and prosecuted for financial crimes of national and global magnitude. They are among the architects of our recent and ongoing financial collapse.
The Dems are only scarcely (if at all) less eager vassals to the whims and agenda of Goldman Sachs (and their peer financial institution) than are the Republicans. The only distinction one can readily make is that the Dems are perhaps somewhat more fastidious in their assault on America's working people than the Republicans, less willing to bray about what they're up to. They perhaps have a trace of vestigial shame over their actions. Or perhaps even that is a sham and they're simply playing the good cop/bad cop game.
So, I'm left perplexed and bemused contemplating Scott's inscrutable remark, (or perhaps it's just batshit insanity).
Robert Cook and those of his ilk fail basic economics. They actually elevated their status to be equal to the real working class that produces something. Cook and his ship of fools produce nothing but busy work that, in their eyes, makes them irreplaceable.
I just renewed my car registation online. That should send shivers down the spine of DMV workers everywhere. Once again, to folks like Cook who actually believe the feel-good rhetoric from the leeches that run the union, you are nice folks but you produce nothing.
Interesting that the postal service actually produces a product. They got comfy with their slogan "Neither rain nor snow...." failing to keep up with Fedex and UPS. Except for junk mail, they can't compete with the internet and service oriented rivals who can actually tell you where your package/letter is via tracking information.
You couldn't make it in a real job with respsponsibilities, accountability, production quotas, and a devoted respect for your customers.
President Christie.
I like that.
Please. Some folks need to cool off a bit.
The problem with the public employee unions is that public employees have gone from having low-paying, but secure jobs to having high paying, and secure jobs, and their minds are still stuck in the past.
On a few occasions I have asked a public employee just how much did he/she think I was getting paid as an engineer in private practice, and the answer have always been in the region of about twice as much as I actually made, and of course there was no comparison of the benefits such as vacation/sick time, insurance, carrying my own IRA's, and never being more than 3 steps away from the exit door, etc.
The public employees and their champions just need to wake up and smell the coffee, that is lower their expectations to about the level the rest of us actually exist on.
"Turn out the lights..the parties over."
I would like advance the opinion that Christie was more effective than Walker.
I agree. Christie is a far far better communicator about why things need to be done. He even campaigned on it.
You know, it would be tempting to explain to Cook the rather obvious ways that the top tier investment banks have used the Obama administration to enrich and entrench themselves, but you can't teach someone who is already comfortable with ignorance. Pearls before swine and all that.
The entire top management and board at Goldman Sachs should be arrested en masse and prosecuted for financial crimes of national and global magnitude.
Even the insane speak the truth from time to time.
Kookie is like one of the Mad Sisters in Shakespeare. In the midst of all the cackling and spittle and incantations, he occasionally speaks the mad truth.
The problem here, Kookie, is that both parties were in on the mortgage/financial scam. Start a blood letting and there's no way to stop it. It would be like one of those Stalinist purges.
And, it all started with the Community Reinvestment Act, a do gooder project aimed at ending the racist bank's practice of "redlining."
Christie is a far far better communicator about why things need to be done.
From what I've seen, he's also excellent at dealing effectively with critics in a face to face situation. He does so without sounding like a politician, ie, bloviating at length without ever really saying anything. I particularly like the recent exchange he had on a call-in from a woman challenging him on why he sent his kids to private school. He ticked off the reasons, but reiterated the first one in his closing..."it's none of your business".
Christie is perfect for this time. He can explain the need for fiscal conservatism to a general audience. That is what is needed in a Presidential candidate right now.
And he's likable, so you pick up the votes of the irrational "But could I have a beer with him?" voters.
"He does so without sounding like a politician, ie, bloviating at length without ever really saying anything."
Scott M, he is like Guliani in this way, it's the waive of the rhetorical future to make rhotoric without sounding like you're doing it. It's why though some may have praised Obama for his speech, what he did was really just what you hear in high school forensics. Though it might have sounded good in an abtract, it didn't connect to anyone who wasn't already convinced.
The real comminicator in '08 was Palin, because she never really sounded like she was giving a speech. It's what those who look down on her comminication as unsophisticated don't understand: it's because she sounds unsophisticated that she's so effective.
In 2012, let's hope the GOP has the good sense to nominate someone who is talented enough to connect without sounding like he's trying too hard. Christie has that ability, as does Palin. I haven't heard any other possible hopeful who can do that.
There's a lesson for you in this, Kookie, that you refuse to learn.
The mortgage/financial scandal started out as a do gooder project to provide an ideal solution to a non-existent problem.
You see, banks were supposed to all be run by racists who wouldn't give mortgage loans to blacks. So, Republicans and Democrats agreed to fix the problem by forcing banks to lend to anybody who could write their name.
Subsequently, our pols agreed to indemnify the banks against the potential hazard of this policy.
When the great do gooder project was hijacked by hucksters, the bill was handed to the taxpayers.
Does this tell you anything about the reality of idealism in the political arena?
Hit yourself over the head with a hammer a couple of times and re-read this. Repeat as often as necessary.
The upshot of all this, Kookie, in terms of this issue is:
A very large percentage of New Jersey home owners now have a mortgage that exceeds the market value of their homes.
Many of them are out of work or under-employed.
And, they are paying $12,000 a year in property taxes on a $250,000 home. This is in addition to federal, state and sales taxes, and all the hidden taxes.
They can't pay any more taxes. They don't have any money left to tax.
This is happening all across the country, even under Democratic governors. But it's only making news where the governor involved is a Republican.
Why is that do you suppose?!
But it's only making news where the governor involved is a Republican.
I'm not sure I get the insinuation you're trying to make. I will say, though, that I don't see much of Christie on CNN or MS-NBC. I don't know about ABC, CBS, or NBC. I honestly don't watch their news organizations or read their websites anymore.
So, Republicans and Democrats agreed to fix the problem by forcing banks to lend to anybody who could write their name.
Boy that kind of sounds like the S&L mess of the 80s.
I had a friend who was a banker then & she said what they're not telling U is that the gov't forced them to give loans to I think it was foreign biz.
I don't think it was (is?) necessary to be able to write your name in order to get a loan.
The borrower can just put an X, and the lender will have a notary public license to certify that the X is the borrower's.
The lamentations of unionists in NYT’s comment file are surely worth the price of admission:
“Recall every last one of them, but first, christie!”
“This betrayal of the people and state of New Jersey will not go unpunished”
“Once again these lawmakers sell out the common man”
“Maybe now union workers in NJ will start to vote on their ECONOMIC interest in future elections”
“We should not be cutting public sector wages; we should be raising wages for ALL workers”
“I hope your garden hose is long enough to fight fires yourself and that you're homeschooling your kids to save a few measly bucks … When you dial 911, no one will be there to come to your aid.”
“Maybe we should boycott New Jersey.”
“Don't complain when your hardware stores, your restaurants or your department stores have to lay people off after the state workers cut their spending there”
The last is particularly rich (and an echo of what unionists are saying in Wisconsin).
If the path to prosperity is to put more money in the pockets of government employees,then why don’t we just triple their wages (and happy days will be here again)?
For public employee unions, it's over when the fat man sings.
"Baby Got Back" isn't supposed to be about public employee unions.
The giant asses that many of these union leeches sport are reason enough to limit their pay. They obviously need to eat less.
"The mortgage/financial scandal started out as a do gooder project to provide an ideal solution to a non-existent problem."
Wrong.
Wrong.
Oh? Why do you make comments like that without any expansion on your conclusion?
"The real comminicator(sic) in '08 was Palin, because she never really sounded like she was giving a speech."
She also never sounded like she was saying anything that wasn't an empty banality or a pandering ad hominem.
No magic there: she wasn't.
As for Giuliani, he was (and is) a dick, a bully, and a sleazebag.
As for Giuliani, he was (and is) a dick, a bully, and a sleazebag.
Perhaps. But you sure knew what he was doing on 9/11.
Giuliani
What did Times Square look like before he took office?
Robert, what are you, they typo police?
"Cook and his ship of fools produce nothing but busy work that, in their eyes, makes them irreplaceable."
Oh, no, I'm very well aware of just how replaceable I am, as are nearly all American workers (of whatever income level). That's why I'm scared shitless of the anti-worker trends being cheered on in this country by...workers.
"You know, it would be tempting to explain to Cook the rather obvious ways that the top tier investment banks have used the Obama administration to enrich and entrench themselves...."
Um, and my own comments do not reveal an awareness and condemnation of this...how?
Both parties and all recent administrations are Wall Street's punks, and they serve in office not to benefit the American public--their titular constituents--but to serve the agenda of the financial elites--their actual constitutents.
The mortgage/financial scandal started out as a do gooder project to provide an ideal solution to a non-existent problem.
Wrong.
You may be interested to know that the Obama administration is still (after all this!) strong-arming banks to make mortgage loans to unqualified applicants in disadvantaged neighborhoods.
Fantastic idea, right Cook? What could possibly go wrong?
Robert, I think you mean the anti-government-union defeat is being cheered on by taxpayers, but maybe I'm wrong.
"Why do you make comments like that without any expansion on your conclusion."
For the same reason I do not need to arduously refute other popular myths...such as the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny.
"What did Times Square look like before (Giuliani) took office?"
A beautiful place for adults to congregate.
Cook,
What I said was it's big that the NYT admits what you and I both know.
But it's only making news where the governor involved is a Republican.
I'm not sure I get the insinuation you're trying to make.
It's just that when Democrat-party Governors do what Scott Walker has done (re: collective bargaining) there's barely a peep outta the unions or their media lapdogs. The goal is clearly to make it seem that this is a Republican Party attack on public-sector leeches. That Democrats are still the champions of the unions, even though Democrat Governors are having to do the same things in their states.
Time Square...
A beautiful place for adults to congregate.
Live sex acts in the shop. Pickpockets everywhere. Three card monte games on every street corner. Every racket you can imagine.
Must have been great for you, Kookie.
My late wife was 5 foot tall. Not so good for her and she had to walk through it on the way to work.
Like all the other office workers you pretend to support and love.
Thank God, Giuliani put the pickpockets, dope dealers and con artists in jail.
Thereby earning the enmity of idiots like Kookie.
You are so fucked up, Kookie.
Whatever. All the trickle-down, soak-the-rich, class warfare bullshit won't mean a thing if the Great Middle Class decides it's had enough. I'm just a private-sector salaryman, so I know I'm a sap; there's a deal out there for others but I'll never be in on it. I get up and go to work, and I pay the taxes that give government workers a far better deal than I'll ever get. "Shut up and pay" is their motto; if you want in on the deal, go to work for the government.
But what do you think happens when people like me decide we're not playing by the rules anymore? How will it go when we decide it's better to spend our time tax-dodging? Or working off the books? You can raise taxes on the rich all you want, but when the middle class stops playing, the game is over. And note well: one of the things we've learned from Our Betters over the last few years is that rules are optional.
Thank God, Giuliani put the pickpockets, dope dealers and con artists in jail.
I'm reasonably certain that what he really did was displace them so they are someplace else now. Times' Square's "loss" is someplace else's "gain".
"What I said was it's big that the NYT admits what you and I both know."
Again, that's news only if you've been asleep since the 1930s.
There's no point in trying for a "gotcha!" that isn't.
I find it hard to sympathize with the unions, who, in general, have much better job security and benefits than I do, and who over the last 20 years have only seen gains in their membership rolls in one area, public employment (where I'd love to know who exactly is representing the taxpayer at the negotiating table).
Still, beyond Cookie's class warfare meme, there is an adjustment in our wealth as a nation going on, and what our future expectation will be and can be (there's a whole bunch of wannabe middle class folks in other countries who are underbidding us). Less wealth, less money to be spread around everywhere.
That being said, the folks who are in the upper tiers haven't exactly embraced the social morality their parents generation did. I don't think you can discuss the benefit rollback without least bringing that subject up.
With executive pay, rich pull away from rest of America - The Washington Post
Ok - I am no math genius, but apparently New Jersey ALREADY has one of the highest tax burdens in the country and a $150B unfunded pension vs. only 9 million people. This represents a $67,000 debt for a family of 4 - a bigger number than the national debt/capita.
So...where do the libs think the money is coming from to pay this debt? And why were the unions fine with hacks like Corzine continuing to ratchet up promised benefits while NOT increasing pension contributions?
This is where I think the Republicans fall short. Find a couple of simple numbers, keep pounding the message and keep asking the liberals where they are going to find the money.
"...both parties were in on the mortgage/financial scam. Start a blood letting and there's no way to stop it. It would be like one of those Stalinist purges."
OK, that all sounds fine; but what about the downside?
"What did Times Square look like before (Giuliani) took office?"
A beautiful place for adults to congregate.
You must have been seeing a different Times Square from the one I had to walk through every day on my way to and from work. Walking through the drug dealers, hookers of both sexes and methods of dressing, more drug dealers and their girl friends pushing baby carriages down the street, under age girls from Minnesota who were being pimped all over the place, dirty book stores, pickpockets, pimps, homeless out in the middle of traffic wiping dirty rags across the windshields of unsuspecting motorists and then demanding payment for doing so. X-rated movie theatres covering most of the block. If you went later you would see the patrons of the playhouses coming out and grabbing the first cabs that would get them out of the area as quickly as possible. Druggies nodding out leaning against the buildings. What a beautiful place to congregate.
New Jersey "leans democrat"? Then what state is "arch democrat" or is "strongly democrat" or is "dyed in the wool democrat"? If New Jersey isn't solidly democrat, no state is.
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