The recount process in Wisconsin is unfolding as prescribed by Wisconsin law.What? Where is the agency here? Kloppenburg chose to invoke a procedure that was available to her under Wisconsin law. It wasn't forced by the law itself. The recount didn't "unfold" like a flower. Kloppenburg asked for it. She didn't have to. Take responsibility for your decisions.
... When the [Journal Sentinel] Editorial Board says the recount is a "mere preamble to the court challenge," it is wrong on the facts and wrong to prejudge my intentions.But she's here now, talking to us, consuming our precious time. She could admit she's going to take this into court or assure us that she won't drag us through another stage of her futile quest for judicial power, but she claims not to have decided yet.
Wisconsin law specifically anticipates that there may be court challenges to the recount, but those challenges can only happen after the recount is done. The recount is not "merely" a preamble to anything: It is a process that proceeds in prescribed ways when an election is this close.Oh, so the disembodied process proceeds as it was prescribed. No, it proceeds because you chose to put it in motion, and another choice looms in the future. Why are you pretending that you don't know what you are going to do?
"Wisconsin law specifically anticipates that there may be court challenges..." See what I mean by mind-crushingly dull? Or... if you think about it long enough, maybe it will cease to be dull and become infuriating.
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73 comments:
"Nothing I do is bad, ever."
This is her big 15 minutes. There are still Kloppy bumper-stickers and Kloppy yard signs out there. She's dragging this out as long as she can.
Zzzz. Joanne Kloppen-bore. Makes Frank Pickle seem like Pee Wee Herman.
It's even worse in the original German.
Of course Kloppenburg is going to sue. She's a left-wing Democrat and Democrats keep counting until they win, at which point it's game over and their opponent is supposed to instantly concede.
This is the pattern used every single year in Washington State and which was used to great effect by Al Franken in Minnesota as well. In addition, has Kloppenburg forgotten that she claimed victory and called on Prosser to concede when she led by a mere 200 votes?
She's being coy because she's trying to play the victim here. But it is painfully obvious that she will use the entirely bogus Waukesha issue to try to steal what she could not win outright. *sigh*
Joambien Kloppenbore. That's it. Zzzz.
If I may be permitted a little suspicious thinking. By raising counting challenges, it creates a fact pattern that can be used in Court. Once in Court, Prosser has to recuse himself from decisions. You know, like the June 8 hearing on the Wisconsin financial restructuring law that caused all the recent hubbub (the one that Sumi put a halt to).
K'g is doing her part, taking the fall in order to win.
Legal scorched earth. This is what Dane County Democrats look like.
Grammar nerd alert.
Kloppenberg: "As I and my campaign have said..."
AHEM, that should be "My campaign and I".
Oooh, I take it back. Writers are told to "show, don't tell". She is obviously making the choice to artfully break grammar rules with the goal of highlighting egomania.
I think that Obama would be wise to learn the passive voice for some things, "The order was given and Bin Laden was taken thanks to someone other than me..." instead of the I, I, I, thing all the time.
When one is passing the credit, this is a good thing.
Avoiding responsibility is different.
Does anyone in Wisconsin not understand that she asks for the recount and she asks for the court challenge, not some unseen, unmentioned, unopposable force?
I find it fascinating that zero Republicans have ever expressed any concern over the numerous and ongoing shenanigans in Waukesha Cty, who have still not counted their votes. Unsealed bags, broken seal bags, bags not matching the given number, broken chain of custody, etc etc etc.
It's almost like they couldn't care less if their vote was tabulated and counted correctly. Wonder why that is? They know Krazy Kathy has her thumb on the scale for Republicans? If what happened in Waukesha Cty happened to Republicans, it would be the Hissy Fit of the century. Drudge would have the Code Red Siren blaring, Malkin would be camped out in the bushes -- and Althouse would have 5 posts up per day on it.
hmmmm, NFL must still be on lock-out and the Packers are in limbo. Seems like this Kloppenburg is now the only thing to do in Wisconsin. Why else would anyone go to this length to overcome an election by that many votes
MarkG said...
This is her big LAST 15 minutes.
Fixed it for you. Could she win statewide again? I don't mean dog catcher in Dane County.
andinista said...
If I may be permitted a little suspicious thinking. By raising counting challenges, it creates a fact pattern that can be used in Court. Once in Court, Prosser has to recuse himself from decisions.
I thought Prosser served on his old term till August?
Why would he need to recuse till then?
There's a modest benefit to keeping this in the courts as long as possible.
That way, Prosser is out of office for a short while, and there can be some effort to rush through a series of cases in the closely divided court.
Like the quorum effort, this is a move meant to deny the voters their say. Wisconsin rejected Klopp and wants Prosser to stay on their supreme court, but Democrats don't care. They are democrat in name only.
Klopp has to delay the idea of a court battle as long as possible, even though whatever she's going to sue over is already known to her. She can't own her decisions because they are the wrong decisions.
She's hoping bags of ballots are thrown away because they are conservative ballots. I wish we could put people like that in prison. Bob Kerrey, Al Gore, Joe Klopp. Criminals against democracy.
The moonbat will lose for the third time when she takes the recount to court. She is a bitter person who somehow feels spited.
"garage mahal said...
I find it fascinating that zero Republicans have ever expressed any concern over the numerous and ongoing shenanigans in Waukesha Cty, who have still not counted their votes. Unsealed bags, broken seal bags, bags not matching the given number, broken chain of custody, etc etc etc.
"
That's because you're making most of that up.
The numbers show no discrepancy. The chain of custody isn't showing widespread problems or anything close.
Compared to a real suspicious election, such as Franken's, we're not seeing anything that would suggest fraud. But I get your plan. Take people who are actually concerned about real voter fraud and call them hypocrites because they aren't freaking out about mythical fraud.
Face it: Wisconsin chose Prosser.
The more she reveals of the defects in her reasoning ability, impartiality, and legal philosophy, the more reason there is to rejoice that this woman was not elected to the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
I have a question for Wisconsinites; when this recount and subsequent court challenges are finished and Justice Prosser resumes his work with the Wisconsin Supreme Court, will JoAnne Kloppenburg have a political future in the state or has this episode ended her future chances at elected office?
Garage, I'd go along with your ridiculous demagoguery if you would apply precisely the same standard to every ballot bag from every county in the entire state - including those from Dane County.
But you won't.
This was Kloppy's once in a lifetime chance at being a justice and she failed. Even the union/democrats using the collective bargaining issue could not get her elected. She's done.................
Garage, I'd go along with your ridiculous demagoguery if you would apply precisely the same standard to every ballot bag from every county in the entire state - including those from Dane County.
Actually I have the same exact standards, that's why I can never fathom why the right never seems to be concerened of the potential of actual voter fraud. The ability to swing huge numbers of votes by hacking just one of these voting machines is incredibly easy. Before this recount, almost all of the votes cast in all of Wisc were never counted or verified by actual human beings. It's fucking nuts.
I'm actually a freak about voting rights == your vote, or anyones vote that gets tossed aside by some partisan hack makes me ill.
The Drill Sargent asks: Why would he need to recuse till then?
It's to have a pretext to demand recusal. It's to establish a false notion in the rationally ignorant electorate, e.g. Bush stole the 2000 election, I can see Russia from my house. These false "facts" once introduced into the body politic are persistent, and extremely difficult to eradicate. Currently, one political faction specializes in the placement of these parasitic memes. Here's proof.
(Rational ignorance is normally good, but it assumes that whoever is elected, will be honest, and fair, and will be faithful to the Constitution. Today's "progressives" are antagonistic to the Constitution.)
If such chicanery as Garage describes is going on in Wisconsin. Why is it not filling the newspapers? Why would an almost universally liberal press fall down like this?
This could be "proof" of two different things:
1. Maybe the press really isn't liberal.
2. Maybe Garage gets his news from radio broadcasts which are only detectable via his fillings.
Before this recount, almost all of the votes cast in all of Wisc were never counted or verified by actual human beings. It's fucking nuts.
I trust the computers more than a hand count, except that someone might hack the computers in voting, the motivation being pretty high.
Remember though that when a vote is close, it doesn't matter which way it goes - the voters are split 50-50 pretty much.
There is a very high value in finality though.
It used to be that both sides recognized that. That ended with Gore 2000, which is when the Democrats turned treasonous.
Garage, we need links to support your accusation of "unsealed bags, bags with broken seals, mismatched numbers, and broken chains of custody." Bonus points if you can actually fill in that "etc, etc, etc" with real irregularities instead of using it as filler. The only thing I read even resembling your claims was hearsay from some retired judge saying some bags appeared to be "improperly sealed." The GAB has said they found "no major irregularities" in Waukesha County, and the Janesville Gazette observed that what minor irregularities were found in Waukesha are similarly found in Dane County. I don't see you making a stink about that. Plus the only sites reporting "wide open bags" are sites like truthout and progressive.com.
Conservatives need something substantive--you know, like car trunks full of votes found during a recall--to get alarmed.
@Garage:
I'm actually a freak about voting rights == your vote, or anyones vote that gets tossed aside by some partisan hack makes me ill.
And yet you're completely against voter ID to make sure that those voting are eligible to do so.
Curious, that...
On the internet, she would come off as a "concern troll" with those kinds of comments.
This what the GAB says about the bag issues:
"Authenticity of Ballots and Responsibility for Conducting Recounts.
Questions about the authenticity of ballots have arisen during the recount process due to holes in some ballot bags, gaps in their closure or issues with security tags. A hole in a ballot bag or a missing security tag is not enough evidence alone to discard the ballots inside. The ability to put a hand into a ballot bag is not by itself evidence of fraud.
Wisconsin’s system of counting ballots on Election Night, canvassing votes in the following days, and recounting those votes is designed to ensure an accurate, honest and transparent tabulation and reporting of the people’s will at the ballot box, as well as to detect actual fraud."
Authenticity of Ballots and Responsibility for Conducting Recounts
It's been said elsewhere that if the number of ballots in the bags matches the original tabulation, no ballots were removed or added.
The GAB says that there was no chicanery. Even with "holes" in bags. You see, there was virtually no change in numbers actually recorded on election night, in the canvass, and in the recount. The Waukesha numbers reported to The Associated Press on election night were not official in any way, shape, or form.
wv: subsolf
garage mahal claims: numerous and ongoing shenanigans in Waukesha Cty.
Except they have a recount process, they're following it, and the challenges are rejected and the votes counted.
The K lawyers are paid to be adversarial and find and point out every nit-picking discrepancy. But the process has corroborating information. A broken seal doesn't automatically mean the votes are to be thrown out: the various officials are paid to find and weigh all the facts, and the corroborating evidence, and make determinations based on all the evidence. (For instance, a "broken seal" means nothing if there were 500 votes in the bag before, there are 500 now, the chain of custody can be examined, and the proportions are the same.)
It's a security concept: layered defenses.
Trumpeting "we found xxx discrepancies" is meaningless.
But of course, that part isn't reported. It's the provocative discrepancy count that's reported. The objective: taint the election. taint the winner, taint it all. This is what Dane County Democrats look like: scorched earth politics. Remember when you were a kid, and you were losing at Monopoly, and it made you so d*** mad you grabbed the board and threw it across the room, and stomped out in a huff? Time to grow up a little, and take your losses like a man.
Here's how the song goes:
Kloppen-hoppen "wins" if the judges in the courts she visits ... say so.
And, her evidence? Well, she will claim when the "count was fresh" she was ahead by 200 votes. And, all the polls had been closed at that point in time ... where she declared victory.
She will add that at each precinct "errors were made" ... And, she'd been denied her "victory" ... which she claimed after the polls had closed.
And, yes. She knows how the judges will rule. Just ask SUMI ... Or the old bat on the Supreme's, Shirley Abrhamason.
They don't like Prosser, anyway.
And, this is what happens when the supreme's of a State get to set the rules.
Can she pull it off?
Can she have a baby?
You'll notice, Prosser is playing it straight. He's not issuing comments.
Hey, who knows? Maybe, Shirley Abrahamson will get to write the opinion. Where she will begin: "Just like Richard Nixon's victory ... everyone at the New Yorker knew ... "none of their friends voted for him."
She'll canvass for opinnions that Kloppen-hppen would be da' better judge. I put nothing past these clown.
Anyone who has ever failed their bar exam should then be entited to become a lawyer. Hey, they've got attendance records for law school, no?
Just because you can doesn't mean you should, much less ought.
@Althouse: You raise a lot of points about choices that Kloppenburg made, but I don't think it's clear that she is calling the shots here. There's simply more at stake here than her election to the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
I'm basing this on things I've read and heard linked by you (not commenters opinions). Those two speeches she gave: the premature victory speech and the announcement of her recall. To be honest, her background indicates that she got to where she is recently based on her own initiative, but that once this election (and perhaps that of Scott Walker too), she entered into some sort of political bargain for which she is ill-prepared. She strikes me as a very intelligent woman who is now being manipulated by even stronger forces.
Just my two cents.
There is a very high value in finality though.
Yes. Exactly. This sentence.
It used to be that both sides recognized that. That ended with Gore 2000, which is when the Democrats turned treasonous.
Gore paid for that with his political life. He has no political future that I can conceive of, short of a Saul/Paul type conversion.
We are seeing quite a few political suicides lately. What's up with that?
Chickenlittle:
If she's that easily manipulated does she really belong on the WI Supreme Court?
She hasn't shown good judgement so far.
If she's that easily manipulated does she really belong on the WI Supreme Court?
I don't mean to imply that she was easily manipulated. But given what's at stake, the pressure on her must be enormous.
Except they have a recount process, they're following it, and the challenges are rejected and the votes counted
Except Nickolaus was caught in a scandal prior to this. She plead immunity fron an investigation into illegal activity by members of the Republican Assembly caucus where she worked as a data analyst and computer specialist. 5 members of the caucus also plead deals. Any vote Nickolaus is in charge of, is suspect. Wouldn't you think?
@Garage: Here's a nice little story (from your side even) which reasons that Nickolaus did nothing which will be ruled against, so you can stop the little personal smear campaign you've been foisting against her for weeks now.
Thank You
@garage: I mean, start doing something constructive instead of tantrums and smears.
The flushing of all your previous Althouse comments should be a starting over for you. :)
Kloppendale is mentally ill. Someone with such a huge sense of entitlement, who is completely unable to accept reality, and is willing to destroy the electoral process is mentally ill and unfit for the office she seeks. Nothing less.
Some in Wisconsin must be upset that Illinois and California may beat them to insolvency.
The Klopper's innuendo has already been addressed by the GAB here:
http://gab.wi.gov/elections-voting/recount/ballot-authenticity
"Questions about the authenticity of ballots have arisen during the recount process due to holes in some ballot bags, gaps in their closure or issues with security tags. A hole in a ballot bag or a missing security tag is not enough evidence alone to discard the ballots inside. The ability to put a hand into a ballot bag is not by itself evidence of fraud. "
"Except Nickolaus was caught in a scandal prior to this."
Really? Why lie about this?
Oh, I see, to smear her and say anything she touches must be thrown out, just coincidentally being the votes of a conservative area.
Except you're wrong on that, too. She didn't actually touch their votes, remember? She didn't find any votes, either. She relayed information wrong only to the media, but someone else was touching the votes, and everything was accurate when canvassed.
And your smear says more about you than her.
I just hope the when next they go to the polls, the people of Wisconsin remember that the woman, who got beaten like a dirty rug in her own election and nevertheless spent a millions dollars of their hard-earned money to no end, had a (D) to her name...
Kloppenpopper
Kloppenfluffer,
Kloogerpoppen,
Kloppenbooger,
Kloppenguinburger,
Klobberpencil,
Kloggerbugger,
Kloysterpen
I refer you here.
Search inside this book doesn't seem to work for graphic novels. You will have to read it for yourself.
This helps a little.
Only in the shadow of the UW physical plant, lurking in the groves of social justice, hovering amidst the crowds filling union halls...are such moon-faced creatures as the Kloppenberg seen with any great frequency.
She plead immunity fron an investigation...
Except she didn't. Nickolaus never "plead" anything. She was granted immunity for her testimony in 2002. She was never charged with any wrongdoing.
This case was about lawmakers (of both parties) using state resources for campaign purposes.
garage mahal,
When you make a victory speech just after the polls close, when the apparent margin is 200 votes, you do look rather silly claiming that a 7000+ margin is just too close to call when it happens to tilt away from yourself.
When you make a victory speech just after the polls close, when the apparent margin is 200 votes, you do look rather silly claiming that a 7000+ margin is just too close to call when it happens to tilt away from yourself.
"Let not the obvious get in the way of the utility of being obtuse."
Like it or not, and try as I might, and all whatever whatnot, this is the only thing I can come down to that makes sense of it all, at all. Even so, that requires a very loose definition of "makes sense"--and this is the unforgivable piece that I'll never forget.
Garage
You are trying to create an issue in Wahkesha Cty when there is none. Nothing that happened as the votes were posted on AP that evening, made it a surprise when it turned out there were extra votes that had not been reported.
You have become consistenly bad with facts, either you are lazy or being wishful. Either way, your comments and links are invalid when you offer anything but an opinion.
So the recount will be done sometime this decade perhaps?
either you are lazy or being wishful.
Malicious is more like it. By hook or by crook, legal election be damned.
So, gm, is there any way you'd ever actually accept the legitimacy of the Prosser election?
Dead serious --- what could EVER convince you he legitimately won?
And for the record, County Clerk is a partisan office. Former Dane County Clerk Bob Ohlsen was a Democrat. Karen Peters is as well. So it appears that Waukesha isn't the only county controlled by "partisan hacks".
here's my thought: no one as ugly as the klopster should ever hold office (sarcasm off)
actually no one as stupid as the klopster should be allowed to hold office--but stupidity is no bar to office holding. Wisconsin deserves her--although she isnt going anywhere
So, gm, is there any way you'd ever actually accept the legitimacy of the Prosser election?
gm doesn't care if Prosser's election is legitimate. He wants to undermine it, period. Malicious intent. Subverting democracy suits liberals just fine.
Even Nigel Lythgoe from American Idol realizes how stupid Wisconsin is:
This is just crazy. I always end up having to go, 'You morons out there ...' or something like that, and realize that I'm arguing with 7- or 8-year-olds from Wisconsin.
I am so glad that she has asked for this re-count as it is exposing many significant and widespread errors in the securing of ballots and recording of votes, and I think will help to ensure that our future elections are open and fair-- more so than the voter ID bill.
more so than the voter ID bill
*snicker*
Get back to us when you're really serious about stopping vote fraud.
as it is exposing many significant and widespread errors in the securing of ballots and recording of votes,
Bullshit.
So, gm, is there any way you'd ever actually accept the legitimacy of the Prosser election?
Have to accept it, not much I can do about it. Have to say, duct taped ballot bags don't give me a lot of confidence though.
RV--please tell me you are not serious--really; so far it appears there isnt any real evidence of fraud is there?
so voter ID is useless in preventing voter fraud? just what color is the sky on your planet.
There is no fraud!
There is fraud!
I am so glad that she has asked for this re-count...
You're so full of shit. Brown eyes?
The only thing Kathy Nickolaus is conceiveably guilty of is pulling a fast one on the Democrat election fixers who counted on having 'offically unoffical' vote totals fed to them so they could figure out how many Dane County ballots needed to be marked for Kloppenburg (and only Kloppenburg).
But RV and GM, keep on complaining. It's just becoming more and more apparent that you're whining about the Democrat he-man woman haters being outsmarted by a girl.
"garage mahal said...
There is no fraud!
There is fraud!"
More like: there is no fraud for reasons a, b, c. Garage has been completely incorrect with facts e, f, g, and seems to have a pattern of being a total hack about this.
"The most widespread and systemic errors and anomalies have been discovered in Waukesha County. That county was already under a cloud, and this recount has revealed more questions about elections practices there."
Everything before is a prelude to this. The editorial—which I don't believe for a second Kloppenburg wrote—is simply the latest in a series of post-election "revelations" that ultimately will be used in the argument to disallow some portion of the Waukesha County vote.
The only thing Kathy Nickolaus is conceiveably guilty of is pulling a fast one on the Democrat election fixers
Ah, the ole "we'll cheat because we think they'll cheat" excuse. All perfectly justifiable.
At this point, everyone knows that Kloppeburg's only chance for victory is to get a court to order that many thousands of votes be discarded.
In the worst case, we'd have a 3-3 split on the Wisconsin Supreme Cuort, followed by an appeal in federal court that would be resolved by the U.S. Supreme Court.
At least, I assume there'd be a federal appeal, under the "equal protection" catchall and/or the various federal voting rights laws intended to prevent disenfranchisement.
But, I'd hope that even the three Liberal members of the Wisconsin Supreme Court would have more integrity than to debase themselves, and the Court, by voting to disenfranchise Wisconsin voters.
How much mischief could Abrahamson cause? Could she delay a hearing until 2012 or something?
"The only thing Kathy Nickolaus is conceivably guilty of is pulling a fast one on the Democrat election fixers."
Well, perhaps. But even that would have been misguided because the correct vote tallies were available that night on at least a couple websites. Nickolaus would have had to surmise that everyone was monitoring the AP site exclusively, which probably was a risky assumption if she were interested in misleading would-be vote fixers.
BTW, I'll just say again that the fact that the actual vote totals were available to the public on election night should have quieted most of the nonsense about voter fraud in Waukesha County; obviously it hasn't.
garage mahal said...
Ah, the ole "we'll cheat because we think they'll cheat" excuse. All perfectly justifiable.
If by "cheat" you mean "accurately report to the state, but inaccurately report to the AP".
You do like to define your terms flexibly, don't you, garage?
Any vote Nickolaus is in charge of, is suspect. Wouldn't you think?
I would, if more votes were recorded than registered voters, as regularly happens in Democrat-controlled precincts. Or if the percentages in party-splits were wildly incongruous with that of previous elections.
But that didn't happen in Waukesha. Voter turnout and the R/D ratio were fairly normal.
So do you really think they're going to find 7,000 fraudulent ballots?
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