For nearly a decade, American military and intelligence forces had chased the specter of Bin Laden through Pakistan and Afghanistan, once coming agonizingly close and losing him in a pitched battle at Tora Bora, in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan. As Obama administration officials described it, the real breakthrough came when they finally figured out the name and location of Bin Laden’s most trusted courier, whom the Qaeda chief appeared to rely on to maintain contacts with the outside world.How was this information extracted from the detainees? Obama scores the success of killing bin Laden, but did that success depend on interrogation methods that he has long condemned?
Detainees at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had given the courier’s pseudonym to American interrogators and said that the man was a protégé of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks.
American intelligence officials said Sunday night that they finally learned the courier’s real name four years ago, but that it took another two years for them to learn the general region where he operated.
Still, it was not until August that they tracked him to the compound in Abbottabad, a medium-sized city about an hour’s drive north of Islamabad, the capital of Pakistan.
May 2, 2011
Information from Guantanamo detainees made it possible to locate bin Laden.
From the NYT article "Detective Work on Courier Led to Breakthrough on Bin Laden":
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Guantanamo actually helped things? That is not a speaking point?
Don't tell the deniers Cook and Shiloh.
Oops.
Time to change the NYTimes Guantanamo template.
Obama scores the success of killing bin Laden, but did that success depend on interrogation methods that he has long condemned?
Subsequent linguistic pretzel-making by the White House will do everything they can to downplay any interrogation techniques based purely on the potential political liabilities involved.
"but did that success depend on interrogation methods that he has long condemned?"
But, the W administration stopped the enhanced stuff.
What if this proves that the non-enhanced stuff was the key?
Oh, you'll find out soon enough. Like when SpongeFreder FuckPants gets here to explain it.
I wonder if winning in Iraq, after Obama and Reid declared it a loss while we still had troops in harms way, helped this outcome.
I think it did. A stabilized Iraq allows for more resources and attention dedicated to other uses.
AA, what took you so long w/this winger talkin' point as your lemmings have been harping on it all night.
Get w/the program lol.
All of Obama's successes depend on methods he has long condemned.
I'm sort of ok with that--despite his "just words" bunkum on the campaign trail, he does seem to understand the difference between words and actions. Words are for whoring to your base and actions are for running the country.
Obama and team are just as smart as Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush.
Vindicated!!!
So what if it's shown that the information came from non-"enhanced" interrogation techniques? Will that lead you to repudiate torture? I doubt it.
Torture has never been about extracting information. The "enhanced" techniques have no scientifically valid advantage over traditional techniques. It's all about being vindictive. There has been no instance validating "fear up harsh," waterboarding and the other controversial techniques, that I know of.
I hear they used new enhancement techniques: serving chicken soup prepared by a Kosher cook.
Now that the Guantanamo detainees have proved their worth, we should send them back to their own countries.
They can either gather more informtion for us to glean when we pick them up the next time....
OR....will become targets of retaliation, since no one knows which of them are the rats and they will be killed by their own people. The scarlet "G".
Either way....win
Nobody is more deserving of death than Bin Laden, and few less deserving of the credit than Obama, but he gets it anyway. That's how it works. It just does.
It'll make a good book. The forensics detailed in the book about the Lockerbie bombing where fascinating. So I hope it does become a book at some point. I'll read it.
The winning plan for terrorist leadership has always been to capture them alive and interrogate them as harshly as possible. That was the genesis of this success. Since Obama is embarrassed to interrogate them harshly, he now refuses to capture them alive.
I bet few detainees want to go back to an Islamic country now.
There has been no instance validating "fear up harsh," waterboarding and the other controversial techniques, that I know of.
Ha, quite a qualifier there. Since you really don't know shit about intel gathering or interrogation or much of anything other than spouting inane left-wing talking points, your comment is pretty much worthless. As usual.
In other words, even in getting something right, Obama was wrong.
President Bush is Da MAN!
Hi Maguro. I noticed that your post failed to include any information rebutting me. I wonder if that's because there isn't any. Before insulting someone's worth and intelligence, you wouldn't show your ass as much if you had even the slightest crumb of information to back yourself up. As it stands, you just look like a boob.
"The winning plan for terrorist leadership has always been to capture them alive and interrogate them as harshly as possible. That was the genesis of this success. "
But this guy was a KSM protege. Why didn't KSM give up his real name? Why was it only four years ago that the name was discovered?
franglo, your post was nothing but unsupported assertions.
No facts to "rebut", therefore no rebuttal.
There has never been an example of information extracted from waterboarding or other torture techniques that was not previously learned from regular interrogation techniques. Period.
Conservative daddies just like torturing terrorists, because it makes them feel powerful.
If you disagree, please prove me wrong. Provide a single example.
Here, let's do this, franglo:
Torture has never been about extracting information.
Unsupported assertion, you provide no evidence to back up this statement.
The "enhanced" techniques have no scientifically valid advantage over traditional techniques.
According to who? What are you even defining as "enhanced" and "traditional" techniques? Completely meaningless statement. You're talking out your ass.
It's all about being vindictive.
Really? How do you know? Sounds like projection to me.
There has been no instance validating "fear up harsh," waterboarding and the other controversial techniques, that I know of.
They certainly seemed to get quite a bit out of KSM through waterboarding. And the fact is, you don't know a goddamn thing about what went down at these interrogations or which techniques worked on which prisoners and which didn't.
pbAndj... Interrogating works just because the dedicated enemy talks at all. He tries to give half truths and not full cooperation, but the small half truths can lead the analysis team to put it together enough to focus the investigation. Breaking only 15% of the Japanese Naval Code was the genesis of the most important victory of the 20th century, called Midway.
franglo, You made an absolute statement with nothing to back it up. So, why not prove your own statement? Truth is that you can't because you don't know what the hell was or wasn't learned through various interrogation techniques. You are just speaking out of your ass.
"AA, what took you so long w/this winger talkin' point as your lemmings have been harping on it all night."
I sleep through the night, then wake up in the morning, drink some coffee, eat some eggs, think for myself, and then blog.
Shorter franglo....."Because I said so"
I sleep through the night, then wake up in the morning, drink some coffee, eat some eggs, think for myself, and then blog.
ok, a reasonable answer ...
and you didn't call me any names! lol
pbAndj said...
"but did that success depend on interrogation methods that he has long condemned?"
But, the W administration stopped the enhanced stuff.
What if this proves that the non-enhanced stuff was the key?
5/2/11 9:24 AM
PBJ. without the enhanced interrogation they never would have gotten ton the stage of knowing how AQ worked. They got his real name in 2007, but they had pseudonym years before. Why are you so upset that Gitmo intel got USL?
Simple question:
If the enhanced stuff is to great, why didn't KSM give up this guy's name?
The answer is that the enhanced stuff isn't so great. This was a KSM protege, but KSM never gave up his name during the enhanced interrogations. This points to two possibilities: either KSM was able to resist the waterboarding on things he really wanted to keep secret, or the W administration didn't bother asking for the name.
The "enhanced" techniques and waterboarding were garbage, never worked, and even the FBI wanted nothing to do with it, but many people have to keep believing in the fiction that torturing terrorists is the key to saving lives and extracting information, to justify their macabre blood-lusting enthusiasm for torture. They are children.
Torture doesn't work, never worked, and is a useless stain to the honor of the United States. Try believing in our founding principles and the rule of law-- pretty good stuff.
"There has been no instance validating "fear up harsh," waterboarding and the other controversial techniques, that I know of."
That you know of . . . but you don't know everything . . .
Further hypocrisy: Is there anyone, left or right, who mourns Osama's untimely death? He really did deserve to die, and people really do feel good that he died. This is an argument for capital punishment. Some crimes deserve the death penalty.
Oh, this has to hurt. And all the little trolls were trying so hard to sound happy.
Everything that eeeevil Dubya and Darth Cheney did was sooo wrong, but it got us where we are today.
franglo said...
So what if it's shown that the information came from non-"enhanced" interrogation techniques? Will that lead you to repudiate torture? I doubt it.
Torture has never been about extracting information. The "enhanced" techniques have no scientifically valid advantage over traditional techniques. It's all about being vindictive. There has been no instance validating "fear up harsh," waterboarding and the other controversial techniques, that I know of.
The prosecution rests.
There has never been an example of information extracted from waterboarding or other torture techniques that was not previously learned from regular interrogation techniques. Period.
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed ring a bell?
Yeah Ed? What'd we learn from waterboarding KSM that we didn't know already?
...
waiting
"Simple question:
If the enhanced stuff is to great, why didn't KSM give up this guy's name?
The answer is that the enhanced stuff isn't so great. This was a KSM protege, but KSM never gave up his name during the enhanced interrogations. This points to two possibilities: either KSM was able to resist the waterboarding on things he really wanted to keep secret, or the W administration didn't bother asking for the name."
KSM gave them the nickname. He probably didn't even know the guy's real name.
blahblah administration this and administration that is bullshit. Obama authorized the operation, which any President would have, once we knew where he was. That is a no brainer.
The people who get the credit are those who actually did the job: military SPEC OPS, CIA and intel community, those that run GITMO, etc. They did their jobs well through two adminstrations. Note they were tipped to it and working it during the Bush presidency and continued thru the next.
If you weren't there, you don't know what technique worked and are just talking shit.
And if you think it was solely a result of leftwing/Democrat partisan politics, you have your head up your ass.
What about a "Bush was right" tag?
I thought he was across the river in Costelloabad.
WV: ditin - ultimately, it ditin make any difference where he was.
Enhanced, unenhanced interrogation techniques aside, if it had been up to the American left, the international left, the media (but I repeat myself), Gitmo would have been shut down and those poor, innocent, tortured souls would have been either released, or tried in civilian court and released a long time before any of them would have given up the intel that led to Bin Laden's demise.
The left had a case of the howling fantods when the real international war criminals, Bush & Cheney, held these poor souls without the niceties which our consititution guarantees its citizens who are accused of criminal offenses.
The mere fact that we called them battlefield detainees and held them without trial sent the left to their collective fainting couches. It also resulted in hordes of white shoe firm lawyers offering their pro bono services to these "political prisoners".
"Yeah Ed? What'd we learn from waterboarding KSM that we didn't know already?
...
waiting"
You seriously asking this question?
Under enhanced entarogation, KSM revealed a 9/11 style plot against Los Angeles:
http://thetension.blogspot.com/2009/04/wire-cia-confirms-waterboarding-intel.html
"After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles."
man I really butchered "interrogation" in the previous post.
Will Eric Holder please resign now?
It's time, Holder.
Obama gets another vote.
You do not.
The Queen - "How was this information extracted from the detainees? Obama scores the success of killing bin Laden, but did that success depend on interrogation methods that he has long condemned?"
I have no idea how they extracted the information, do you?
Maybe your loyal suck-up sidekick Needy can get out there with his widdle camera and find objective proof it had anything to do with anything other than standard interrogation techniques.
SGT Ted - Teabagger drivel.
Give credit where credit is due.
Info from Guantanamo? Impossible. That horrible place was closed and turned into a unicorn ranch on January 20, 2009.
edutcher "Oh, this has to hurt. And all the little trolls were trying so hard to sound happy. Everything that eeeevil Dubya and Darth Cheney did was sooo wrong, but it got us where we are today."
They got the ionformation in 2007.
Why didn't Bush and COmpany take him out right then and there?
This is just the standard whining and bitching via the usual teabagger crowd, and of course, never giving our president any credit whatsoever.
As if this was all a Bush operation.
franglo said...
There has never been an example of information extracted from waterboarding or other torture techniques that was not previously learned from regular interrogation techniques. Period.
The International Justice Resource Center said...
In reaching his decision, Judge Kaplan found that the existence of the would-be witness for the prosecution was learned through coercive interrogation of Ghailani carried out by the CIA at secret detention sites and Guantanamo, and was not convinced by the government’s arguments that it would have found the witness without the use of the coerced information...
"I have no idea how they extracted the information, do you?
Maybe your loyal suck-up sidekick Needy can get out there with his widdle camera and find objective proof it had anything to do with anything other than standard interrogation techniques."
From the AP:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ikAZCh0ww4Y1tnn_VhV3j8H5GTEg?docId=64273c49498c4331bd1c50206122d760
WASHINGTON (AP) — Officials say CIA interrogators in secret overseas prisons developed the first strands of information that ultimately led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.
Current and former U.S. officials say that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, provided the nom de guerre of one of bin Laden's most trusted aides. The CIA got similar information from Mohammed's successor, Abu Faraj al-Libi. Both were subjected to harsh interrogation tactics inside CIA prisons in Poland and Romania.
The news is sure to reignite debate over whether the now-closed interrogation and detention program was successful. Former president George W. Bush authorized the CIA to use the harshest interrogation tactics in U.S. history. President Barack Obama closed the prison system.
bandmeeting "Info from Guantanamo? Impossible. That horrible place was closed and turned into a unicorn ranch on January 20, 2009."
There have been over 500 prisoners released from Gitmo, and the information relating to this was offered up in 2007.
If it was the primary reason for the action taken, why didn't Bush do this four years ago?
And why is it so difficult for the teabaggers here to give any credit to the president for his part in this?
Why didn't Bush and COmpany take him out right then and there?
You need to read more and troll less. This is one of the dumbest comments I've seen from either side on this issue so far.
"duh" indeed. You're going back to /ignore.
jeremy - full of shit leftist ignoramus.
I served 26 years in the US Army, to include detainee operations.
What the fuck would you know about anything military related, much less this mission that was carried out?
I give credit where it is due, which is to the people who worked thru both adminstrations to actually get it done, who don't have a D or R tag signifying their blowhard status.
go fellate Obama somewhere else, it's gross.
franglo said...
There has never been an example of information extracted from waterboarding or other torture techniques that was not previously learned from regular interrogation techniques. Period.
You are not that bright and easily misled.
They got the ionformation in 2007.
Why didn't Bush and COmpany take him out right then and there?
Oh wow are you dumb.
Seriously, can you just stop now?
Why are you so upset that Gitmo intel got USL?
Because it is another fact that refutes their silly, ignorant world view.
So of coure they're here making stuff up.
SGT Ted - "What the fuck would you know about anything military related, much less this mission that was carried out?"
I certaily appreciate your service, but what exactly do YOU know about what was carried out in this instance, other than what anybody who reads knows at this point?
Were you there?
Were you the one doing the interrogating? Diod you take part in the actual operation?
Do you know what methods of interrogation that were used to extract the information?
Of course not.
You're just trying to avoid giving credit where credit is due, and of course, trying to make this look like it was somehow really all related to a G.W. Bush & Company operation.
WHich is bullshit and you know it.
This was an operation handled by the current administration's security team, more than two years after G.W. walked out the door.
And regardless of how the information garned in 2007 helped out, nobody appears to be able to tell me why, if this information was soooo important to the action taken yesterday...it wasn't done in 2007.
Including you.
As for your fellate comment, you're the fucking teabagger, so you should know a lot more about such things than I.
And regardless of how the information garned in 2007 helped out, nobody appears to be able to tell me why, if this information was soooo important to the action taken yesterday...it wasn't done in 2007.
Read more, fellate less.
Duh.
shorter jeremy; I am a clueless idiot who can't fathom how intel works.
SGT Ted - "shorter jeremy; I am a clueless idiot who can't fathom how intel works."
Your previous comment has nothing to do with whether you know anything about "intel."
You inferred, because of your vast military experience, that you know more than anybody else at this point, exactly what was or wasn't done.
That's bullshit and you know it.
The information provided in 2007 was related to a possible courier that could possibly lead to possible clues relating to Oama's movements and location.
According to the released reports from the White House, and others, we're been watching the location and couriers since August...with the operation culminating in what occured yesterday.
They gave full credit to the 2007 information, and of course to the military people, so wy can't you and others get off the teabagger bus and give credit where credit is due?
We all know the answer to that question: Obama.
Scott M - You still haven't answered the question, asshole.
Snarky teabagger comments mean absolutely nothing.
Give credit where credit is due.
"Intelligence officials discovered the compound in August while monitoring an al-Qaida courier. The CIA had been hunting that courier for years, ever since detainees told interrogators that the courier was so trusted by bin Laden that he might very well be living with the al-Qaida leader."
The information provided at Gitmo set this in motion: "The CIA had been hunting that courier for years..."
And the White House has given credit to the people who got the initial information, leading up to what happened yesterday...but after "hunting that courier for years."
Also: "By mid-February, intelligence from multiple sources was clear enough that Obama wanted to "pursue an aggressive course of action," a senior administration official said. Over the next two and a half months, Obama led five meetings of the National Security Council focused solely on whether bin Laden was in that compound and, if so, how to get him, the official said."
The initial interrogation opened the door...and president Obama closed it.
Whether the teabaggers here can admit it or not.
Jeremy: Thank you again for holding our balls in your mouth so long. Steeping just right. You do know in whose mouth the teabags go, right?
thanks again for your service.
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02”
Michael - Why are you so consumed with my balls?
Do you have any relevant comments relating to the discussion or is this just your way of saying you find me attractive?
I'm straight so I'm afraid you're going to have to look elsewhere.
Snarky teabagger drivel means nothing to me, it's all you ever post, so maybe you should take a shot at Titus or perhaps Palladian?
Jeremy: Thanks again for sucking our balls in your stupid hot mouth. You do know what the expression means don't you and you do know into whose mouth the tea bags go, don't you?
BTW: You are pretty funny on this topic of finding the evil OBL. Our very own president found him and to him and him only we give credit because the other guy, the stupid GWB, couldn't find him but BHO could. Now, back to licking please.
Michael - And yet another comment relating to "balls."
You need to find something to do with that little mouth of yours.
Jeremy: You fucking idiot your balls are not in my mouth and never would be. You are not a tea bagger, I am. That means my balls are in your mouth you stupid motherfucker. But thanks for thinking about our balls and using them in every one of your idiotic posts. Back to licking please.
"Our military wanted to go in there and just scorch the earth...but President Obama single-handedly understood what was at stake here. He alone understood the need to get DNA to prove the death...it was President Obama single-handedly and alone who came up with the strategy that brought about the effective assassination of Osama bin Laden," he said, adding, "thank God for President Obama."
Do the teabaggers here agree?
Michael - And yet again, here you are with the "balls."
Good lord...get a fucking date.
Jeremy: I have been looking at your posts and in nearly every one you call people teabaggers. You do know that that means people put their balls in the loud and stupid mouths of lefties. You do know that don't you? If you don't want to talk about balls in your mouth you might drop the expression or otherwise if anyone thinks of you from now on they will think of you with teabaggers balls in your stupid cheeks. Now back to licking
Jeremy said...
edutcher
They got the ionformation in 2007.
Why didn't Bush and COmpany take him out right then and there?
Why didn't Little Zero do it the second he took office, if it was that cut-and-dried?
It took 2 years to confirm and 2 more to locate the guy and track his movements.
This is not a James Bond movie. Intel is a time-consuming process of bits and pieces.
I don't doubt for an instant Dubya would have loved to put Paid to that account.
PS The trolls should be happy, but they're so angry.
Could it be even they realize this will not save their Zero come '12?
Michael - I realize you just can't stand to be called a teabagger, even as you continue to post right wing drivel on a daily basis, and of course, constantly refer to "balls" in one context or another, but:
"To tea bag is a slang term for the act of a man placing his scrotum in the mouth of a sexual partner."
It has nothing to do with "lefties," you idiot.
It has to do with whoever the hell a teabagger like yourself is having sex with.
Is it Titus or Palladian?
edutcher - Yeah this should really hurt Obama's chances in 2012...especially with the group of top notch GOP candidates slapping each other around.
Duh.
Our military wanted to go in there and just scorch the earth...but President Obama single-handedly understood what was at stake here. He alone understood the need to get DNA to prove the death...it was President Obama single-handedly and alone who came up with the strategy that brought about the effective assassination of Osama bin Laden," he said, adding, "thank God for President Obama."
Agree?
Jeremy said...
edutcher - Yeah this should really hurt Obama's chances in 2012...especially with the group of top notch GOP candidates slapping each other around.
Duh.
Gas at $6 a gallon and climbing, commodity prices up on a magnitude of 2 or more, U-6 at 19.4 and climbing at a pace with inflation, spending out of control, taxes out of sight, housing getting dangerous again (13% of all homes unoccupied), and that foreign policy reset is working so well.
Yeah, Little Zero's invincible.
There's a reason, "Duh", is Jeremy's best word.
Yeah this should really hurt Obama's chances in 2012...
Not a chance. More likely it will be $5 gallon gas and soaring food prices.
This is a nice feather in the cap and is good for the President. But like Bush 41 who was riding 80% approval after GW1, his fate rested on the economy.
Jeremy: No, no, no. You don't get it. We are the teabags and you are the cup or the pot. Everybody knows that apparently except you. That's why every time you write the word teabagger, which is every time you post, we all wonder about your brains and your sexuality. But we are OK with that because you do it so well. Back to sucking.
Michael - Good lord, give it a fucking rest.
You sound very, very insecure.
Jeremy: No, no, no. It's you, Dude, in every fucking one of your posts you get the teabagger thing all wrong. You think its funny but the joke is on you. What's funny is the look of your fat cheeks with the balls rolling around. Back to licking and thanks for keeping up the banter with the teabagging.
obama'a has so squandered his credibility this will not mean squat...for most. The libtards who worship at his feet will not change either...other than their "hatred" of the use of force will be sorely undermined.
@Jeremy: "They got the information in 2007."
No they didn't. Money quote from various news dispatches:
"Officials learned the courier’s identity in 2007 and in 2009 located areas of Pakistan where the man and his brother operated. Because of the security steps they took, their location couldn’t be pinpointed until August when the compound in Abbottabad was found."
So, to review, the POSSIBLE location of bin Laden's lair wasn't pinpointed until August 2010. Moreover, until the SEALS were face to face with UBL during the raid, they still weren't sure they had truly found his hideout. Until then, it was just a strong hunch.
You may now extract your foot from your mouth.
Jeremy - now that we've got him, and we plucked him out of the suburbs of Islamabad where Castle Osama stood cheek-by-jowl with the poobahs of the Pakistani regime...
...if there's proof of thoroughgoing Pakistani complicity in hiding the guy, NOW we nuke them and lay waste to the place.
By the way,
“The U.S. special forces team that hunted down Osama bin Laden was under orders to kill the al Qaeda mastermind, not capture him, a U.S. national security official told Reuters.”
And here I thought that Obama was all for "International law" and such...
Embrace targeted assassination, enhanced interrogation and Gitmo, all in one day?
Yes we can!
Funny how Hope&Change! looks more and more like Stay the Course.
Libtard: Torture has never been about extracting information. The "enhanced" techniques have no scientifically valid advantage over traditional techniques. It's all about being vindictive.
You have no clue what you're talking about. Quit projecting your own character defects onto others.
Wow. This Jeremy fellow is quite the stupid one. Does he hang out here a lot?
wv: trosche: what Jeremy likes to talk...
Oh, and:
President Obama was a most vocal critic of the CIA’s interrogation programs and very publicly closed the overseas CIA prisons in one of his first acts as president.
But that was then...
Our military wanted to go in there and just scorch the earth...but President Obama single-handedly understood what was at stake here. He alone understood the need to get DNA to prove the death...it was President Obama single-handedly and alone who came up with the strategy that brought about the effective assassination of Osama bin Laden," he said, adding, "thank God for President Obama."
You are such a gawdawful tool, Jeremy. "he alone" authorized a bombing strike last month by two B-2's, but was told by advisers that there wouldn't be any evidence that OBL had actually been killed.
Credit where credit is due? Absolutely. Credit to the President for being in charge of planning and authorizing the mission. Credit for the troops that carried it out.
Zero credit for your constant and never-ending desire to plant kisses all over this man's well-kissed ass.
Enhanced interrogation set the wheels in motion. KSM and the other al Qaeda scumbags would have never talked without it.
I give Obama credit (and he deserves it) for not being like Clinton, and for having the courage to send in the SEALs. But this op wasn't planned by Obama, it was planned by JSOC (military) and executed by the SEALs. Obama just gave permission. The credit goes to the people who actually came up with the plan, who went in on the helicopters, rappelled down into the compound, went into the house, and put down those who would not surrender.
My prediction: this will not make a difference in the '12 presidential election. If you like Obama, you assign the credit to him, and if you don't like him then you won't. The independents will credit the military. Killing all of the remaining terrorists won't change our economic problems. Obama needs to remember what Carville said two decades ago: "It's the economy, stupid!"
My my, such anger going on in the comments; left v. right.
It should be quite obvious that although Obama gets credit for the "go" he should also get credit for the way in which the information was developed. After decrying the use of torture by the Bush admin and after he ordered Gitmo closed, he was faced with knowing that the people at Gitmo had no place to go and that they were holding out information. Under executive order, the following occurred:
a. All prisoners at Gitmo will be allowed standard Middle Eastern dress, clothing and places of worship.
b. All prisoners at Gitmo will be taken on a picnic on a regular basis.
c. Sites for picnics will be green and grassy with no insects, and plenty of flowers growing.
d. Guards will pat detainees on the head and compliment them on their beards on a regular basis but not less than daily.
e. Guards will insure each picnic contains at least one cupcake per detainee as well as a chicken salad sandwich and sun-brewed iced tea. Other foods will be prepared on request.
f. Guards will tuck each detainee in bed at night and read to him/her from the exploits of Mohammad (P.B.U.H.)or Richie Rich comic books.
It is obvious that the above made a grateful detainee spill the beans.
Now, can we please stop the arguments?
"How was this information extracted from the detainees?"
Well, first, everyone sat down over these three cups of tea...
In fairness to Franjalo and Jeremy, they are just repeating what John McCain said when he drygulched Bush-Cheney over "torture, the detainees, the stain our my honor that is GITMO."
The difference is two of the 3 loathsome pieces of shit are internet anonymous clods no one has ever heard of. The 3rd piece of shit is a dimbulb that is a US Senator.
And not the other Senatorial piece of shit now in the White House, not the dimbulb treacherous backstabber Senator we are lucky was not elected...not that we are that much better off with The One.
YMMV
http://socyberty.com/issues/did-senior-militaryintelligence-officials-overrule-president-obama-regarding-mission-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/
Scrapping away all the disgusting chatter, both sides must admit this was a complex matter starting from a small tip in 2007, but bottom line: "There was nothing that confirmed bin Laden was at that compound," he said, noting that Obama's decision to act after weighing the evidence was one of the "gutsiest calls of any president in memory."
franglo wrote: Torture has never been about extracting information. The "enhanced" techniques have no scientifically valid advantage over traditional techniques. It's all about being vindictive.
I wonder how that proposition could be tested?
The 3rd piece of shit is a dimbulb that is a US Senator.
John McCain may have been born w/a silver spoon and crashed a few planes, but he was a genuine war hero having spent (5) years as a Vietnam War POW, bypassing an opportunity to be released early, ie "special treatment" 'cause his father was an admiral.
Anyone calling McCain a pos is himself, quite the piece of shit!
'nuf said!
Anyone calling McCain a pos is himself, quite the piece of shit!
At last we can agree on something, though Cedarford IS NOT a POS, he just gets "demonstrative" at times.
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