Althouse: "I simply do not know how the brutal torture of children can be surpassed as an example of pure evil."

May 31, 2011

"I simply do not know how the brutal torture of children can be surpassed as an example of pure evil."

"What is happening in Syria has become morally intolerable even under the standards of the Middle East."

67 comments:

Anonymous said...: What is the Sarah Palin's vagina angle, Andrew? Why are you holding back?; 5/31/11, 12:52 PM
mariner said...: I don't see how anyone can say it's morally intolerable when the people responsible are still in charge and still doing it.; 5/31/11, 12:54 PM
Bob Ellison said...: With one upright post, Andrew Sullivan disolves a decade of stupidity.; 5/31/11, 12:54 PM
Fred4Pres said...: The Assads are Alawites, a secrative minority considered apostates by both Sunni and Shiite fundamentalists. They cannot lose this fight. Because if they get out of power, revenge will be coming and it will be harsh.

This kid is collateral damage. That does not make it right. It is horrifying and wrong. Frankly the sins of the Assads warrant retribution. But there will be many innocents swept up with them when that time comes.; 5/31/11, 12:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Mariner -- Unto Caesar? Ring a bell?; 5/31/11, 12:55 PM
Fred4Pres said...: Sullivan's post is correct to condemn such behavior, but it is stupid in not recognizing what is going on here. This is extreme despiration. That does not make the crime any less tolerable, but the only way to prevent a blood bath is some third party going in and taking control.

That will not (and should not) be the United States. But it will not be Europe, or Israel, or any other outside group either. We are looking at a high chance of civil war in Syria and possibly in Lebanon too.; 5/31/11, 12:57 PM
Anonymous said...: Fred -- All we need to do is find the dictator a nice job at a Pearl Vision somewhere. He is an optometrist, after all.

Problem solved.; 5/31/11, 1:00 PM
Scott M said...: Doesn't this whole issue give President Obama's lowered bar visa vi Libya a huge, gaping, hole of a problem?; 5/31/11, 1:00 PM
David said...: But Mrs. Assad was in Vogue. That counts for something, right?; 5/31/11, 1:00 PM
Bob Ellison said...: Fred4Pres, your analysis reminds me of the sovietologists back in the day who all agreed that if and when the USSR fell, blood would boil because of nationalism. It didn't happen. Climb down.; 5/31/11, 1:02 PM
edutcher said...: "I simply do not know how the brutal torture of children can be surpassed as an example of pure evil."

Stick around. The Assads, like the Husseins (Saddam, that is), have always been known for their creativity.

Delivering the kid back home is out of the Saddam playbook, but the Butcher of Baghdad would have billed the parents for the price of the gas.

Tell me again how getting rid of cutthroats like this is not a good thing.; 5/31/11, 1:03 PM
ic said...: Do not fear, the gutsy OBL-exterminator will make a gutsy call when he comes back from his golf links.

You know, sometimes, most of the times, it's gutsy to sit tight and lead from someone's behind. Eventually parents will keep their kids home, riots will die down. No Great Satan meddlings. It's totally gutsy to hope Assad to change, yes?; 5/31/11, 1:03 PM
rhhardin said...: The left's moral intolerance meter is pretty random. You never know where it will turn up.

Dirtbag civilizations are hard for them to spot.; 5/31/11, 1:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Andy might want to ask Obama what he's doing about this situation.

BTW Michael Totten's book really helps you to understand the balance of power there among all the disparate groups.; 5/31/11, 1:10 PM
Hagar said...: This is not news.

20-30 years ago it was said that the difference between Hafiz Assad and Saddam Hussein was that Assad was sane and acting deliberately in cold blood.

It is quite something that some people are still capable of ignoring the goings on in Syria to the extent of talking about Bashir Assad as a "reformer."; 5/31/11, 1:13 PM
Geoff Matthews said...: So, what does Andrew suggest we do about it?
Talk all you want, but you'll never talk the Assads' out of office.; 5/31/11, 1:19 PM
YoungHegelian said...: The jihadis in Iraq performed similar bloody-minded and graphic atrocities e.g. cooking up children for their parents to eat, clipping off guys' fingers for smoking, etc.

You know why they do it? Because it works to terrorize a population.

You know when it stops working? When the terrorized have a "big brother" to turn to who can drop the hammer on the terrorizers, just like the Sunni Iraqis turned to their "big brothers", the coalition forces.

Then, thanks to all the intelligence coming in from the population, vengeance comes down fast and hard on the terrorists.

The answer in Syria is obvious. We just don't have the stomach for it anymore.; 5/31/11, 1:22 PM
traditionalguy said...: The Tribal aspect has included horrors done to the other tribe since recorded history. Finding a more horrible way to slowly inflict pain to extend death is an art form. That is where the Romans learned crucifying men. A famous event in the horror Olympics was when 10,000 soldiers of one tribe surrendered in a battle, they all but 100 had both eyes poked out. The 100 had only one eye removed so they could lead the others back home and thus get the other tribes attention.; 5/31/11, 1:23 PM
TWM said...: "What is happening in Syria has become morally intolerable even under the standards of the Middle East."

They have standards?; 5/31/11, 1:24 PM
Anonymous said...: The answer in Syria is obvious.

Saudi Arabia has apparently beheaded 22 people this year. So far. We could have invaded any number of countries after September 11, when we had stomach. They all were providing material or other support to Bin Laden. We chose Iraq, for geographic and political reasons.; 5/31/11, 1:24 PM
Toad Trend said...: "I simply do not know how the brutal torture of children can be surpassed as an example of pure evil."

Please. This is just an example of diversity. Isn't it wonderful???; 5/31/11, 1:25 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: The answer in Syria is obvious. We just don't have the stomach for it anymore.."

Good cause we don't have the money either.; 5/31/11, 1:27 PM
edutcher said...: YoungHegelian said...

The jihadis in Iraq performed similar bloody-minded and graphic atrocities e.g. cooking up children for their parents to eat, clipping off guys' fingers for smoking, etc.

You know why they do it? Because it works to terrorize a population.

You know when it stops working? When the terrorized have a "big brother" to turn to who can drop the hammer on the terrorizers, just like the Sunni Iraqis turned to their "big brothers", the coalition forces.

Then, thanks to all the intelligence coming in from the population, vengeance comes down fast and hard on the terrorists.

The answer in Syria is obvious. We just don't have the stomach for it anymore.

We do, but we also have a Democrat Party that always sides with this country's enemies and a President that's still trying to decide what nationality he is.

Remember, he gets all wee-wee thinking about Douglas MacArthur taking the surrender of the Empire of Japan on the fantail of the USS Missouri.; 5/31/11, 1:28 PM
Synova said...: Maybe nothing could be done economically, but certainly something could be done militarily. Should be done, is a different question.

I don't see how Sullivan dissolves a decade of stupidity by that particular moral sidestep. The meta-truth that war never solves anything is so ingrained that nothing can dislodge it and instead of actually facing the fact that we have to *decide* to act or not to act, we can tell ourselves a comforting lie... that nothing can be done.

And tomorrow our moral betters will again tell us how Israel violates human rights and is the bad guy in their conflict with Palestine, and US troops will "desecrate" the body of someone who was shooting at them, and the media will ignore our completely arbitrary intervention in Libya, and Saddam's atrocities will still be inadequate to justify our intervention in Iraq simply because some people who were arrested and convicted of it, were rude to our prisoners there, and some union member in Wisconsin will have an emotional melt down about how a democratic vote destroys democracy.; 5/31/11, 1:29 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Machos,

The folks beheaded in Saudi Arabia got beheaded after the kind of trial given to every Saudi citizen. Every Saudi knows the law, and knows the consequences for breaking it.

Arabia is not my idea of a fun time, but the inhabitants seem to like it. That's not the case in Syria.

There's a difference between harsh but consistent laws and government inflicted capricious brutality on innocents.; 5/31/11, 1:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Arabia is not my idea of a fun time, but the inhabitants seem to like it.

Hilarious. Yeah, the ladies who want to drive are happy. And, clearly, the autocratic regime gets voted back in every election.

Hegel would be proud. After all, he was never much for liberty or civil rights.; 5/31/11, 1:33 PM
ndspinelli said...: Althouse Formula #14 on how to drive up angry comments. Link to Sulky Sullivan, sit back and open up a cold oat soda. It's lazy, but it works every time.; 5/31/11, 1:35 PM
YoungHegelian said...: @Macho,

Try again on the Hegel slurs, because you're wrong.

Don't read Popper -- go read the Philosophy of Law (Right) itself and try again.

And there's no comparison between women not driving and slaughtering people in the streets and you know it.; 5/31/11, 1:37 PM
J said...: Sullivan's only a leftist to the ...special ed GOP--ie, Ahouse regs. He was rightist, and pro-Bush until it became more profitable to join ObamaCo. (and he's only nominally a Demo, and still chickenhawking); 5/31/11, 1:37 PM
test said...: C'mon Andrew tell us how Bush's backing DOMA caused this.; 5/31/11, 1:37 PM
J said...: Miss Nachos takes on Hegel!!!

Heh heh heh heh.

Where's the f-ing Word press and yokel-iggy button already; 5/31/11, 1:39 PM
mccullough said...: 7 Machos,

Nice Hegel reference. To Hegel, freedom consisted of obeying the state.

As for Sullivan, let him put his ass on the line for the Syrians.; 5/31/11, 1:41 PM
Anonymous said...: J -- Still waiting for you to tell us about John Edwards's awesome plan to end poverty.

Saudi Arabia is a corrupt police state. Anyone defending it is an idiot.

Hegel laid the philosophical groundwork for 20th Century fascism.; 5/31/11, 1:41 PM
TWM said...: "Althouse Formula #14 on how to drive up angry comments. Link to Sulky Sullivan, sit back and open up a cold oat soda. It's lazy, but it works every time."

Ann didn't drive up any angry comments. The animals that tortured that child did.; 5/31/11, 1:41 PM
Fred4Pres said...: The only way the Assads leave is dead or given a guarantee of safe exile (with sufficient booty to live on). Even then, those taking over will take it out on the Alawites. That is how it is done in the middle east.; 5/31/11, 1:41 PM
Geoff Matthews said...: J,

Andrew Sullivan was a huge Bush backer until Bush made it clear that he wasn't for same-sex marriage (forget the exact details on that).
When that happened, Andrew opposed Bush reflexively on EVERYTHING. No metaphor was too strong to smear Bush.
It isn't an issue of profitability, it was same-sex marriage, and only same-sex marriage, that caused Andrew to take the positions that he had.; 5/31/11, 1:43 PM
Brennan said...: The Turks just won't take the bait.

Iran still worries them.; 5/31/11, 1:47 PM
J said...: 1: 41. Still waiting for you to figure out how a search engine works 7Nachos

So Hegel singlehandedly brought about stalinism and the nazis!! Cool. One mean mutha-f-er. Some of us like...... destruction.

Been reading yr Joanna Goldberger handbook of History, eh? Ford Chilton manual, and goldburgers. All you need Nachos.

Word Press and idjit buttons, ASAP Annstein; 5/31/11, 1:51 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: "....Let Assad know the world is watching and remembering. And let this cry ring wider and further than in Syria alone...."

I doubt Assad gives a damn. This kind of shit had been going on daily in these countries but that never stopped Diane Sawyer to gush over what kind of music Bashar has on his Ipod or Vogue doing an expose on his stylish wife.; 5/31/11, 1:54 PM
Anonymous said...: J -- Still waiting for you to tell us about John Edwards's plan. Man, if that guy had been elected, all our poverty problems would be solved.; 5/31/11, 1:54 PM
windbag said...: I don't know, lefties still find Cuban Communism (and all the amenities that accompany brutal despotism) cute after 50 years, why would anyone be bothered by something like this?; 5/31/11, 2:13 PM
paul a'barge said...: Aieeeeee! I almost clicked on an Andrew Sullivan link.

shweeewww. That was a close one.; 5/31/11, 2:21 PM
Cedarford said...: Bob Ellison said...
With one upright post, Andrew Sullivan disolves a decade of stupidity
=================
No he didn't. He started as an anti-Jihad hysteric screaming as a committed Christian conservative we had to do everything in the "War on Terror".

Then shredded his credibility first by backstabbing any that actually did physically detain Islamoids..then his other choice HIV-riddled brain rants.

Torture is "morally intolerable?" - well good, Andy, stop running your little fey mouth. Your mouth running safe in plush lounges where you are free to run your mouth and get paid for it and DO SOMETHING!!

Convince me Americans should die....Which we decided not to do to invade and liberate the Ukraine from the Russian and Jewish communist leadership that was starving 5 million, inc. 3.4 million children to death as instrument of policy. We didn't invade China to save Chinese, and we didn't wish to see hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of American casualties fighting Germany for "Jewish human rights".

Our plate is full. We have 3 wars underway, we outsourced our economic prosperity to China, and we are broke.

Go fly off to Davos or one of your other "spots" Sullivan! Run your mouth off to other Elites and pundit class while sucking down oysters and sipping champagne about how "Morally intolerable it all is, others besides us are obligated to intervene".: **SLurp, sip** "Our job is to convince the Christianist, anti-Semitic, homophobic rubes that they must fight and die to end Syrian torture."; 5/31/11, 2:22 PM
Anonymous said...: anti-Semitic, homophobic rubes

That's you in a nutshell, dude.; 5/31/11, 2:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Caught by reporters on a Washington area golf course and asked to comment on these events in Syria an obviously shaken President Obama exclaimed, "Fore!".; 5/31/11, 2:52 PM
TMink said...: My sad admission is that I do not know what to think. While I know that the regime is capable of this barbarism, I also know that people not in the regime might do this to blame it on the regime. So I find it very, very difficult to find anyone culpable when nobody is trustworthy.

Trey; 5/31/11, 2:57 PM
KitaIkki said...: Hillary Clinton recently called the Syrian "president" a "reformer"

"Vogue" magazine did a fawning profile on Syria's "First Lady" as a modern, hip, new generation Arab feminist.; 5/31/11, 3:12 PM
Anonymous said...: It was the cutting off of the boy's penis that really riles Sullivan, for as you know, with Andrew everything comes down to sex.; 5/31/11, 3:43 PM
Fred4Pres said...: Sort of evil too.

Seems more of a case of jealous girls gone bad than official sanctioned attrocity, but still sort of evil.; 5/31/11, 3:47 PM
Fred4Pres said...: Richard, Sullivan has been less than consistent in his various outrages, but this is a horrible crime. It is just that the Assad regime has been doing crimes like this for decades.; 5/31/11, 3:48 PM
mariner said...: Seven Machos,

I once read about rendering unto Caesar.

What is your point?; 5/31/11, 4:17 PM
Mary Beth said...: So, you're saying that Assad isn't a reformer?; 5/31/11, 4:21 PM
Curious George said...: " I do not know what the West can do militarily or economically, and suspect it's not much. But there is something you can do. His Facebook page is here, with 62,000 followers. Let his family and friends know you have noticed. Let history record this act of barbarism. Let Assad know the world is watching and remembering. And let this cry ring wider and further than in Syria alone.

"We are all Hamza al-Khateeb".

Seriously?; 5/31/11, 5:02 PM
Lovernios said...: After all the hysteria over waterboarding, it's good to know that real torture, especially this gruesome example, raises some outrage on the left.; 5/31/11, 5:07 PM
Methadras said...: This is Assad's new reform measure. Get them while they are young. Then hand them back in pieces. I wonder what Urkel and Elephant thighs are thinking about this?; 5/31/11, 6:51 PM
Titus said...: I did a guy in Maine who was living in NYC but originally from Damascus.

I was really drunk at the time and asked him to talk to me like he was a terrorist. I also told him to "pretend" that he made me wear a suicide vest while we had sex.

When it was done I told him to get out and called him Osama.

It was hot.; 5/31/11, 7:07 PM
Cedarford said...: Seven Machos said...
anti-Semitic, homophobic rubes

That's you in a nutshell, dude.

===========
Machos - Another Israeli stooge puppet at State Dept.; 5/31/11, 7:14 PM
Phil 314 said...: I'm still waiting for some pundit to comment re: Syria vs Libya as was oft heard in the mid '00's

wrong war; 5/31/11, 7:30 PM
MamaM said...: an example of pure evil

By what standard does the writer measure purity and determine evil?; 5/31/11, 7:31 PM
ken in tx said...: The Allawites are semi-muslem Christians. They attend Mosque and pray five times a day. However, they celebrate Christmas and Easter, and believe Jesus is the son of God. If Assad is deposed—dictator that he is--, all Allawites will be murdered in the aftermath. Are we ready for that?; 5/31/11, 8:50 PM
Gary Rosen said...: J 1:51PM - incoherence *and* antisemitism ("Annstein"), but I repeat myself. Though he probably thinks Syrians torturing children is almost as bad as Israel building apartments for Jews in a city that has been Jewish for 3500 years. Have J and C-fudd ever been seen in the same place at the same time outside a glory hole, or C-fudd's flophouse room?; 5/31/11, 9:30 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/31/11, 9:50 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: K, so what do you want us to do about it, Andrew Sullivan?

Make up your damn mind.; 5/31/11, 9:51 PM
Lyle said...: Logically, after Libya, we must support a bombing campaign against Syria.

Come on Syrians, overthrow this bastard.; 5/31/11, 10:25 PM
Skyler said...: Why does anyone read this moron's writings?

Where was his moral outrage when Al Qaeda tortures and mutilates children in Al Anbar, Iraq? Or anywhere else Al Qaeda or the Taliban are?

What an idiot.; 5/31/11, 10:51 PM
Lyle said...: I agree with you Skyler. There is a lot of stupid in Andrew.

... and Bush is a "war criminal" to him. Haha.; 5/31/11, 11:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Not to worry. President Zero tells us that Assad is a reformer!; 6/1/11, 9:22 PM