Althouse: "The 'New Civility' As Asymmetrical Warfare."

April 22, 2011

"The 'New Civility' As Asymmetrical Warfare."

"Do you think that the new civility is: I'm entitled to have other people be civil to me?"

61 comments:

Anonymous said...: This is, in fact, the essence of all politics.

I've got mine. I'm entitled, Screw you. you're a thief.

You're pretty good at playing this game yourself, Althouse. Not that I'm complaining. Self-interest is good. You're completely self-interested, and you moan and groan that you're a shrinking violet who doesn't know how to get what she wants.

The Dems have been all over the field in the past couple of months. We started with the murders in Arizona, and the calls for civility lest Republicans incite more murders.

And, now, the very same loon (Krugman) who tried to paste the blame for the Arizona murders on Palin has declared that civility was yesterday.

Because Republicans want to starve grandmothers and throw babies out in the cold. So, civility is no longer required or desired.; 4/22/11, 8:23 AM
The Crack Emcee said...: That sounds about right, but it's still bullshit:

Fuck you.

(Not you, Ann, but,...well, you know.); 4/22/11, 8:27 AM
Firehand said...: Pretty much. I've heard people giving anyone who criticizes Obama or the Evil Party in general hell for being mean, for 'making the atmosphere nasty', and so forth; yet they have no real problem with the 'only good Republican is a dead one' notes and all the other threats because "Those are justified!" or "Do you blame them?" and- the real winner- "You started it!"; 4/22/11, 8:29 AM
Anonymous said...: I guess your site is too dangerous for average folks now, Crack.

I gotta agree to be offended to get there.

But, the pictures are still funny as hell.; 4/22/11, 8:30 AM
Quaestor said...: Er, excuse me, what "new" civility? It's pretty much the old civility as always practiced by the Left -- any scorn or abuse heaped on conservatives are less than what is deserved, any criticism of liberals, the soi-disant progressives, or His Holiness Lord Zero is hateful, racist, homophobic and/or uppatriotic.; 4/22/11, 8:33 AM
Tank said...: Mostly, the new civility is about telling conservatives to STFU.

As always.; 4/22/11, 8:39 AM
xWerkz Studio said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/22/11, 8:44 AM
joewxman said...: When the original ny times civility crap came out post on a left wing's facebook wall that while i disagreed with her leftwing politics, i was in no way being uncivil. She responded by blocking me! So even though i was being civil to her...it didn't matter.; 4/22/11, 8:46 AM
LilyBart said...: I've got mine. I'm entitled, Screw you. you're a thief.

It seems to me that the people with the overdeveloped sense of entitlement are the people who want to take from others, not the other way around.

But this is the way the liberals operate. They want other people's private property to fuel their (unacheivable) utopian dreams, and then demonize the productive to make the taking of private property easier.; 4/22/11, 8:46 AM
Lucien said...: Asymmetrical warfare has more to do with the idea that one side is disproportionately better suited to take advantage of (or is vulnerable to) a particular tactic or strategy than the other.

The civility issue is just plain hypocrisy & double standards. Neither side is better suited to operating under any particular standard of civility than the other.; 4/22/11, 8:54 AM
virgil xenophon said...: Was there EVER any doubt? (from the left's perspective)

"MORAL ENTITLEMENT" is what the left is ALL about--and always has been..; 4/22/11, 8:57 AM
Henry said...: Is there any way, retroactively, to have that Bloggingheads episode link directly to this post? Then you'd have a perfect circle.

I really can't hear "new civility" without thinking of the "new celibacy." It's certainly been just as successful.; 4/22/11, 8:58 AM
PaulV said...: If I was not so civil I think it would be fun to complain to our Master, Google, about some new age sites. All hail Google.; 4/22/11, 8:59 AM
Quaestor said...: Sorry about my typos. NyQuil is to blame (yeah, that's the ticket) It's Nyquil.; 4/22/11, 9:00 AM
Quaestor said...: Don't be too flippant about Google. Big Bro' knows where you are.; 4/22/11, 9:01 AM
Scott M said...: Sorry about my typos. NyQuil is to blame (yeah, that's the ticket) It's Nyquil.

I'm usually a'gin the drowsy-making OTC stuff, but the allergies have been kicking my ass so much this spring, I was desperate. I made the mistake of taking a Zertec at work. Thank God it was a slow day...

It's worse than being drunk. At least you're likely having a good time if you're drunk.; 4/22/11, 9:09 AM
ricpic said...: Note that in this little corner of the blogosphere the lefty commenters (AL, garbage, montana urban dreck, the execrable Jeremy, Robert "Stalin" Brown) as a matter of course address their opponents as hillbillies, racists, shitheads and dummies, and when fire is returned they then immediately start caterwauling about the "intolerance" of those who fight back.; 4/22/11, 9:20 AM
TosaGuy said...: I am all for Madison folks acting like spoiled uncivil jerks and unions futilely trying to boycott small businesses. It only turns the stomach of the average Wisconsin moderate who happens to live in GOP or swing districts.

While they are extremely annoying when clustered together, I prefer that liberals ghettoize themselves to the tune of a few 80-20 legislative districts.; 4/22/11, 9:23 AM
Scott M said...: I don't recall Garage hurling insults like the others you mentioned. Garage tends to rely on sarcasm. I think he's a Piranha brother. That was certainly explain his fear of hedgehogs.; 4/22/11, 9:24 AM
dbp said...: I don't think characterizing "The New Civility" as asymmetrical warfare is an accurate way of describing its purveyors.

To the Krugmans of this world, criticism of liberal public servants is evil. These poor politicians are doing the best they can in an awful situation mostly not caused by themselves. Criticism of conservatives is always too mild though: Conservatives are either benighted by truly evil ideas or are weak and in the pockets of greedy and powerful moneyed interests.

Once this is understood all the seeming contradictions melt away. In their minds, they are just being fair.; 4/22/11, 9:25 AM
Bruce Hayden said...: I don't think that anyone should be surprised at this. Obama's popularity continues to slide, and as his chances at reelection, or the Democrats to hold the Senate decline, their level of fear of loss of power continue to increase.

The left rode the politics of personal destruction to control over two branches of government. Obama probably wouldn't be in the White House today if they had not, with their MSM brethren, spent 8 years demonzing Bush, Cheney, et al.

The problem is that this sort of behavior may be almost acceptable for a minority, but it comes across as esp. bad when practiced by a sitting President and a majority government. So, the popularity of the Democrats continues to decline, as they ratchet up the level of personal destruction. At this point, a vicious cycle, until the next election, where they are likely to lose whatever power they still have at the national level.

The other part of it is that their policies are catastrophic failures. Not only has government spending increased some 4-5% of GDP, and more money is being borrowed a month, and in Bush's last year, but inflation is starting to take off, and Hillary and her sisterhood at the State department are turning out to be almost as inept as Obama at foreign affairs. And, you need to throw in massive fraud and crony capitalism, led by the Attorney General, who seems to think his job is protecting Democrats and Blacks, giving away billions to the later, while attacking anyone else, regardless of merit.

So, who can be surprised that the left is reverting to the behavior that was most successful for them - the asymmetrical warfare of being the political underdog. Unfortunately, when employed by the ruling class in this country, the result is most likely going to be that they cease to be the ruling class.; 4/22/11, 9:26 AM
Lincolntf said...: Hey, I'm gonna have a chance to test the new civility first hand over the next few days. In-laws are en route for a visit. F-i-L was a moderate, probably considered himself a Reagan Democrat, when I met him in 2000. But he gulped the Al Gore Kool-Aid and soon thereafter succumbed to Bush Derangement Syndrome. I've gotten together with them for several vacations, weekends, etc. since Obama's election. He, and my similarlty aligned b-i-l, studiously avoided discussing politics in those instances. Well, it's been long enough. I need to hear some answers now that he (my f-i-l) has been proven wrong (or at least horribly misguided) on everything from AGW to Obama reducing the deficit, bringing peace to the Mideast, etc.
He'll likely remain civil, but if he launches into a stream of denial or "misrememberings" of what he was so adamantly sure of a few short years ago, I might lose my cool.; 4/22/11, 9:30 AM
Scott M said...: Well, it's been long enough.

Two schools of thought here. You can bring it up while you're helping them with their luggage into the house right after they arrive, which should guarantee a response but also likely poison the stay, OR, you can wait until about an hour before they leave, which should guarantee they won't give any good answer before splitting, but will keep your spouse happy.; 4/22/11, 9:33 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Repeat after me: Obama is awesome!

wv= suction; 4/22/11, 9:34 AM
tim maguire said...: The part about civility being merely a rhetorical weapon of the left sounds like an aspect of something I've been noticing for about a decade now--whinging about the Republican Attack Machine is the favorite tool in the arsenal of the Democratic Attack Machine.; 4/22/11, 9:35 AM
Phil 314 said...: Wisconsin has been the marriage of labor union action and youth demonstration. Both believe they have the moral high ground. Both are less interested in BO's vaulted "dialogue" and more interested in public demonstration and pressure politics.

The shame bit is old hat for union folks. At any one point in time here in Phoenix we will have three or four people camped out in from of some office building manning a large banner that says "Shame on _________". The message being that because someone (i.e. a large tenant or the building developer) didn't use union workers and therefore did't pay a "living wage" they should be ashamed.

It doesn't resonate with the public.

The stakes are higher in Wisconsin so the volume is louder. I assume that the Wisconsin public is likewise tired of it all.; 4/22/11, 9:43 AM
Phil 314 said...: I'm waiting for the first Wisconsin politician to declare:

I have NOTHING to be ashamed of.

wv: boarco

Meeting all of your porcine needs; 4/22/11, 9:45 AM
Alex said...: Has Jeremy, garage, Ritmo, shiloh, AL ever been civil for one moment? Well maybe Ritmo ONE time...; 4/22/11, 9:53 AM
Scott M said...: AL has gone so far as to declare that it's never necessary to be anything but combative. I'm paraphrasing, but that was a gist. Jeremy...well, he/she doesn't really need much in the way of explanation as his/her bent is one dimensional and predictable.; 4/22/11, 9:58 AM
Carol_Herman said...: The ONLY reason America loses its fights, has nothing so much to do with guerillas, as LOUSY LEADERSHIP!

We take good men and put them under the command of PUTZ's. You heard me right! Men who love ribbons, but then refuse to give the soldiers getting shot at any ammunition.

You know the best thing that comes of this? Look at Israel. They will NOT step foot in anything Arab! Sure, they use their intelligence. (Alas, we don't. We depend on the Saud's instead.) Which means sometimes it pays to react like a turtle.

When you don't get thanked ... it's best to become way more isolationist.

As to "assymetrical" ... by definition WE are the ones without the megaphone. And, when we choose to show up ... all we have are our voices. PLUS, a sense of unity with those who don't speak at all.

The other thing I notice? Heck, the old media isn't getting any of my money.

I don't know about you. But as a teenager ... I can remember going to the ice cream soda store; and buying magazines ... where each one cost about a quarter. (They're sold cheap so the magazines were making oodles of money selling advertising.) At a time when this worked.

Doesn't work.

Blame it on the "asymmetricals." See if I care.

You know, you can't even tune in a Laker's game ... without seeing another team there.

That's what makes all sporting events possible.

By nature, humans are competitive.

Marx lied. And, the day the republicans do better, they'll have learned to stop with the prohibitions! "Setting standards" is on par with the EPA setting standards. It's a real waste of time that fines businesses for non-compliance.; 4/22/11, 9:59 AM
Roger J. said...: The blogosphere is the modern equivalent of the usenet--except less civil; 4/22/11, 9:59 AM
bagoh20 said...: "Don't be too flippant about Google. Big Bro' knows where you are."

As well as Apple, AT&T, FBI, IRS, DHS, .... The only one who doesn't know where I am is me - the one poor bastard that actually needs to know.; 4/22/11, 10:02 AM
Carol_Herman said...: In about a month people will wonder what 7 states was Obama referring to, when he said the United States has 57 of 'em.

CLUE: It ain't gonna be Hawaii!

Hawaii is just a misdirection. Momma was UNMARRIED. And, back in those days even communists sent their teenage daughters to homes for unwed mothers.

Stanley Ann Dunham's was in the state of Washington.

In one month's time ... people will get a better sense of our map. And, all the chicanery that went on "behind the curtain."

You want things to be obvious?

If things were obvious you'd celebrate the date the egg got hit by the sperm. And, not the day you came out. Kapish?

The truth will come out!

And, no matter what, we're gonna have a race in 2012 where both parties will be struggling for air.

I expect a move to the center will be followed by a move to cut the crap out of the republican party. And, you can only do this with ONE INDEPENDENT. Who can attract others.

Where do you think the hearts and minds are?; 4/22/11, 10:06 AM
Joe said...: (The Crypto Jew)
That was certainly explain his fear of hedgehogs.

Well dood “Spiny Norman” is no laughing matter…and don’t make me and my boys show up in a tank and take you out for a scrape…..; 4/22/11, 10:12 AM
Scott M said...: Well dood “Spiny Norman” is no laughing matter…and don’t make me and my boys show up in a tank and take you out for a scrape…..

"Why didn't you go to the police?"

"Well, I noticed that the lad holdin' the tactical nuclear missile was the chief constable."; 4/22/11, 10:16 AM
Penny said...: To the man going deaf, dumb and blind...

Hearing or making noise is a blessing. Seeing black and white is a gift.; 4/22/11, 10:16 AM
Joe said...: (The Crypto Jew)
"Why didn't you go to the police?"

"Well, I noticed that the lad holdin' the tactical nuclear missile was the chief constable."

Just remember I’m brutal, but fair…even if I don’t tell you why I’m nailing your wife’s head to the coffee table.; 4/22/11, 10:24 AM
Unknown said...: What rdkraus and Lucien said.

It might have worked, but delivery of the news is no longer a closed system and Little Zero doesn't know when to shut his mouth.; 4/22/11, 10:38 AM
sunsong said...: My view on civility is that it is personal. Why would one desire to be anything but civil? Hatred does the most damage to the hater. Getting all upset and angry does the most damage to the one who is upset and angry.

People delude themselves if they think that whoever they are demonizing or mocking or belittling is devastated or really even cares that some annonymous person on the internet acts like an out of control adolescent and doesn't approve of them.

Consider the source!

I just don't see the benefit of being an asshole - as much as one has the *right* to be one.; 4/22/11, 10:40 AM
Anonymous said...: "Has Jeremy, garage, Ritmo, shiloh, AL ever been civil for one moment?"

And where the fuck are they, anyway?

Barack Obama just authorized his babyillers to use drone missiles against innocent Libyan Muslims and they're nowhere to be found to explain to us why their Dear Leader keeps murdering these brown people.

What does Barack Obama have against people of color?

I noticed he hasn't started any wars against white people ... only people of ethnicity. Maybe it's the white genes.

Seems kind of racist to me, so I was just wondering where our resident liberals are so they can explain why the Democrats are targeting only minorities with their drones.; 4/22/11, 10:44 AM
Scott M said...: I just don't see the benefit of being an asshole - as much as one has the *right* to be one.

Yes, but as a very wise man, I think it was Ben Franklin, once said, 'One man's asshole is another man's patriot'.

Or maybe it was Gallatin; 4/22/11, 10:58 AM
Fen said...: Prediction: Blaming the last administration for the next one's problems will become "uncivil".; 4/22/11, 11:00 AM
MayBee said...: I would pay Paul Ryan $5 to wear a "Together We Thrive" t-shirt to his next event with Obama.; 4/22/11, 11:09 AM
Phil 314 said...: Well since we're on the dual tracks of civility and M. Python I present for you one of the greatest insult rants in comedic history (start at 2:00); 4/22/11, 11:12 AM
sunsong said...: Yes, but as a very wise man, I think it was Ben Franklin, once said, 'One man's asshole is another man's patriot'.

:-) indeed - and that's why it is personal. *you* *I* know when we're choosing to be assholes - when we're over the top. I've done it - it's not like I haven't indulged in gutter dwelling - but my point is for your own sake - for your own happiness and peace of mind - why choose to be a jerk?

Because someone does not see things the way you do - is that really a reason to attack them personally?

And what if they are assholes and you don't stoop to their level? Isn't that a good thing? Because somebody else is an ass does not *cause* you to choose to be one too (I'm using the word *you* generally not specific to you at all :-); 4/22/11, 11:16 AM
Phil 314 said...: And if you want to cut to the chase (or maybe its "cut to the Cleese"); 4/22/11, 11:16 AM
Alex said...: One of the memes I get from left-wing talk radio is that they need to be more "energized" and get in the 'baggers faces more. As if they weren't already. That's always the answer for the left, hit bottom and keep digging!; 4/22/11, 11:20 AM
Scott M said...: or maybe its "cut to the Cleese"

Excellent article over the weekend about Cleese, whom I personally love as far as his work goes. Cleese has moved to Bath, England because he no longer feels London is an "English" city because of the multiculti crap which he and Python helped usher in. Python was a "weekly assault the values of the post-war English establishment" and now Cleese is reaping the results of what he helped sow.

In other words, a liberal is only a conservative that hasn't been mugged yet. Cleese has been mugged culturally and now flees London for the much more stuffy, yet educated and strong-valued, Bath, but leaves the hoi-polloi to their own machinations.

None of which changes the fact that my son, Bruce, 2, has a poster on his wall from the Bruces sketch (The Philosophy Dept at the university of Wallamaloo).; 4/22/11, 11:25 AM
deborah said...: Good one, Phil, the Architect sketch is one of my favorites. And for civility, you can't beat the Cheese Shop...; 4/22/11, 11:25 AM
Phil 314 said...: As a bonus a good example of the liberal/conservative conversation that often occurs on this blog.

Instead of parrot imagine they're discussing Wisconsin politics. I'll leave it to your imagination (and political veiwpoint) to decide which side is represented by the shop owner.; 4/22/11, 11:25 AM
deborah said...: Rule 6: there is no rule 6.; 4/22/11, 11:27 AM
Unknown said...: Ut said...

"Has Jeremy, garage, Ritmo, shiloh, AL ever been civil for one moment?"

And where the fuck are they, anyway?

Shhh, they'll hear you...

You want them to know we're having fun without them?

PS Cleese got what he wanted and now he doesn't like it.

Payback.; 4/22/11, 11:35 AM
Kirby Olson said...: Maybe it's how Spike Lee said blacks could not be racist. Which meant they can be as racist as they wanna be, but other people can't be racist toward them?

Ditto for feminists and sexism.

Or for communists and classism.; 4/22/11, 11:51 AM
shiloh said...: Er, excuse me, what "new" civility? It's pretty much the old civility as always practiced by the Left -- any scorn or abuse heaped on conservatives are less than what is deserved, any criticism of liberals, the soi-disant progressives, or His Holiness Lord Zero is hateful, racist, homophobic and/or uppatriotic.

Irony alert on this Good Friday. Again, father forgive angry/misguided conservatives for they know not what they do!

But on the bright side Quaestor, Jesus died for your sins, so at least you have a chance for salvation ...

Or not.; 4/22/11, 12:08 PM
vbspurs said...: Rdkraus wrote:

Mostly, the new civility is about telling conservatives to STFU.

As always.

This.; 4/22/11, 12:33 PM
vbspurs said...: Bruce Hayden wrote:

The problem is that this sort of behavior may be almost acceptable for a minority, but it comes across as esp. bad when practiced by a sitting President and a majority government.

I couldn't agree more.

The most successful Democratic presidents in this country have been the ones who view themselves as being "above it all". FDR, JFK, Wilson come to mind. They let partisans engage in personal sniping, viewing such activity (rightly) as un-Presidential. The least successful Democrats have been the prickly ones, who demonise the other side: Carter, Johnson, Obama.

Two of those presidents were one-termers, and I do believe we're about to see an addition to the list with Obama.; 4/22/11, 12:40 PM
Phil 314 said...: None of which changes the fact that my son, Bruce, 2, has a poster on his wall from the Bruces sketch (The Philosophy Dept at the university of Wallamaloo).

That's a bit confusing, mind if we call you "Bruce".

Fourth Bruce: No. Right, I just want to remind you of the faculty rules: Rule One!

Everybruce: No Poofters!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Two, no member of the faculty is to maltreat the Abbos in any way at all -- if there's anybody watching. Rule Three?

Everybruce: No Poofters!!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Four, now this term, I don't want to catch anybody not drinking. Rule Five,

Everybruce: No Poofters!

Fourth Bruce: Rule Six, there is NO ... Rule Six. Rule Seven,

Everybruce: No Poofters!!

Fourth Bruce: Right, that concludes the readin' of the rules, Bruce.

How would the Professor do with that faculty?; 4/22/11, 12:59 PM
Phil 314 said...: we don't like stuck-up sticky-beaks here; 4/22/11, 1:03 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: Why are such obvious things so hard to see right away? Why do we need highly educated people to write pages on something this obvious? No shit!

Anyone who had a pulse during the Bush years could see what a sham "civility" was.

Partisan loyalty is a problem mainly because people can't see the obvious if it conflicts with the narrative of the moment. It's not that they don't want to, it's because they have prevented themselves from being able to think critically. No one does this to them, they voluntarily do it to themselves.; 4/22/11, 2:36 PM
Carol_Herman said...: This "civility" bullshit is on par with what we do with American soldiers. When we don't let them get aggressive with our enemies.

I know, we're told we went to war for altruistic reasons. But altruistic reasons lack all common sense.

As to the "civility" ... all it means is that when journalists want to get impressive, they either pull a "Dan Rather." Or, a Geraldo Revera.

You know, I haven't changed one bit.

I'm not into chest ribbons any more than I am into this "civility" thing. If I wanted better manners I'd read Amy Vanderbilt. Meanwhile, she committed suicide by jumping out a window.

If you've spent your lifetime worrying about your manners, Amy Vanderbilt proved it wasn't worth much.; 4/22/11, 6:40 PM
AST said...: The day after Wonkette melted down with retard jokes about Trig Palin on his third birthday, ignored by MSM, I noticed article on Bloomberg about Obama's SOTU speech where Michell Bachmann could be seen calling Obama "shameless" to the person sitting next to her. That was played up as uncivil.; 4/23/11, 3:10 AM