"... and it wasn't even until the news conference was happening that I learned it was this enormous mistake that could swing the whole election. I was never shown anything that would verify Kathy's statement about the missing vote, and with how events unfolded and people citing me as an authority on this now, I feel I must speak up."
A statement released by The Waukesha County Democratic Party under the name of the 80-year-old Ramona Kitzinger, who had previously endorsed the work of the Waukesha County Clerk, which burst the Democrat's illusion that they had won the April 5th Wisconsin Supreme Court election.
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102 comments:
Ummm, why no "all of the above"?
So much for the people who were commenting about this woman's integrity and honor.
Krazy Kathy did it on purpose I say. She refused time and again to update her rejected Kathy-dependent system, with her 5 Fisher Price computers or whatever she probably bought from a garage sale in 2003. She would grin when the county board would practically beg her to upgrade. OOPS! I lost the Brookfield data! I am so important!
I chose "lame" as the equivalent of desperate and sad. It is also concerning, but not because it raises questions about the election. It is concerning as a demonstration of the depths that people will go to undermine the public's confidence in our elections.
Funny how she's changed her tune. In the press conference she was very confident all the numbers made sense . I thought she was very persuasive in her statements and impressed with her, especially for an elderly person at the center of a firestorm. Now? Not so much......
The left will use anyone and any thing to get their way. The ends justifies the means, and everyone is expendable...even an elderly lady just doing her job...
a demonstration of the depths that people will go to undermine the public's confidence in our elections.
Or as a demonstration of the depths that people will go to undermine our elections.
"Funny how she's changed her tune."
She? Who put out the press release?
even an elderly lady just doing her job...
The elderly lady is more than capable of speaking for herself.
Do not excuse her from this statement. It is hers, for better or for worse.
I'm going with "typical".
The state had the whole weekend to digest this and most people have moved on.
Ann,
Huh? What am I missing?
It's been awhile since I attended UW-Madison, am I missing some Wisconsin nuance here?
Who put out the press release?
Are you suggesting that they are put out a statement in her name, stating that she said some things, and that we are to assume that she is not owning those words?
If she comes out within the next day or so and says that the statement put out by the Democrats was a damned lie, then that would be one thing.
But she won't. She is now complicit.
Unless you think she is saying this out of fear.
I spot you that Kathy is incompetent, Doris. Why do you think she has brains enough to create 14000 votes? Do you really believe that no one in the City of Brookfield voted? Isn't there a complete paper trail here? Her computer was just an aggregator and she aggregated wrong. That is why you have canvassing.
enigmatiCore,
I'm not excusing her in the least, nor those who must have pressured her to make this new statement. She was confident in what she saw and now she's using her age as her excuse.
Obviously someone got to her. Her first statement was her honest one because she was doing her job. Now some people from the party stop by for a visit....
..and it wasn't even until the news conference was happening that I learned it was this enormous mistake that could swing the whole election.
Otherwise I would have not agree and, i don't know fudge the numbers.. anything but a swing putting the whole election in jeopardy.
I didn't realise the repercussions that correcting the numbers would set in motion.
I want to apologize to my loyal party comrades. You will have my resignation at noon tommorow.
"Asked then by reporters how a Democrat in this Republican stronghold felt about the change, Kitzinger said that "all the numbers jibed up, and we're satisfied they're correct. I'm not going to stand here and tell you something that's not true.""
She could have been running Cray's latest supercomputer (if they make those anymore), but if she needs to sync of floppies with access, it's going to require her to take an additional step.
I don't think there's a serious question as to whether these votes are true. This town did vote, after all.
There's a major element of sore losers, another element of 'what a jackass', and for a select few, a recognition of the true lesson here: Republicans can still win close elections if they make it too hard for democrats to know how many votes to manufacture. It's just too difficult to steal an election if you wait and wait and wait and wait till the next day to announce the true margin. Urban union crooks will shoot their fraud wad too soon, or perhaps not at all.
And that scares the hell out of the left. They are headed for disaster in 2012 now.
Don't be surprised if several larger more rural districts in swing states are oddly late in reporting votes, yet these votes are not suspicious once announced. No 'found' ballots, just extremely late reporting.
Ann,
Are we assuming these new words are hers and you are assuming they are not?
Other possible choice:
"a lie."
Regardless, maybe for the next election they should have staff that DO understand computers, are engaged, and have a clue what is going on. That might mean leaving out retirees, which if WI is anything like VA, would mean a real hardship in finding available election night support.
I have done run out of popcorn but this election just keeps getting more entertaining as time goes on.
I watched the link to the press conference provided here. This woman was very certain that everything was correct.
Now, I wonder if she really is retracting that, or if the county democrats are doing it for her.
Farcical. I agree it looks like Dem flacks fell on her and insisted she change her tune, as Duckworth, Holder and such want to mobilize up as much stink as they can.
Krazy Kathy, I admit, comes out of this looking like an arrogant hick. Nobody wants people responsible for elections to have 'their own system', even if, as I believe is clear, she did nothing fraudulent with the votes.
But the Dems politicized this election through the roof, all in the spurious hope of somehow derailing what the legislature and executive had lawfully achieved, and of course for the empty boast of somehow 'delegitimizing' Walker five months after his election-- a sort of Scott Brown in reverse, in case you remember how Obama changed his tack after the General Will was evidenced in that election . . . .
It's desparate and lame, and doesn't matter. The claim of fraud will be very easy to prove or disprove. The City of Brookfield has the votes, they have been secured under the watchful eye of the Clerk, along with the lady who may not know anything about computers, but she at least should know how to secure ballots. The numbers on the clerk's computer won't matter as long as the votes exist, and are countable. Non issue.
11/11 8:39 PM
EnigmatiCore said...
"So much for the people who were commenting about this woman's integrity and honor."
I'm going to cut her just a little slack, here. She easily could have begged off that question at the presser last Thursday, but instead stepped up and unequivocally announced that the new vote totals for Brookfield were correct.
As for her apparent change-of-heart...
“Victor Weers, chairman of the Waukesha County Democratic Party, said that because of national attention to Kitzinger's statement and angry emails over it, party members talked to Kitzinger and solicited more details.”
I'll bet they did.
Not in the headline:
"Kennedy [Executive Director the State Elections Board] said his staff spent the weekend going over the numbers and have verified Brookfield's numbers are correct."
Oh.
Never mind.
Well, if nothing else the "I'm a Senile Old Idiot" defense is a new one.
However, I'm not sure it is quite the message they want to send about their county-level leadership, but what do i know?
I'm going to cut her just a little slack, here.
Why would you?
One of two things happened here. The party members talked to her, and
(a) she decided the ends justified the means and decided to flip-flop, or
(b) they threatened her and she's going along with it.
Dishonesty, or cowardice? For which should we cut some slack?
Here is a graf from that jsonline story which pretty much says it all:
"Victor Weers, chairman of the Waukesha County Democratic Party, said that because of national attention to Kitzinger's statement and angry emails over it, party members talked to Kitzinger and solicited more details. The words in the statement are her own, Weers said. Kitzinger could not be reached for comment Monday afternoon, and Weers said she is not granting interviews."
Tim W.
I'm assuming those words are not hers, either. The term "Brookfield City" is not anything a local would use. Forever and ever it's been the "city of Brookfield."
Democrats suck.
The term "Brookfield City" is not anything a local would use. Forever and ever it's been the "city of Brookfield."
Well, she is claiming she is but an addle-minded old geezerette. Who knows what they used to call it in the old-timey days of her youth.
I'd say desperate.
She figures that a close look at how all those votes were "missed" might not stand up to investigation and she's claiming to have been in Switzerland during that war.
She does not intend to be the sacrificial goat if she can avoid it.
The words in the statement are [Kitzinger's], Weers said. Kitzinger could not be reached for comment
Yah okay. You put out a press release in her name that she won't back publicly.
"It signs the precious memo or it gets the hose again!"
EnigmatiCore said...
"Dishonesty, or cowardice? For which should we cut some slack?"
Fair question, I suppose, but I'm trying to imagine what the past several days have been like for her. She's 80, for God's sake, and I don't imagine that her own party has cut her any slack at all for her earlier display of moxie.
Kitzinger could not be reached for comment Monday afternoon, and Weers said she is not granting interviews.
If she's ever allowed to speak in public again, watch her eyelids to see if she sends a message via Morse Code.
(a) she decided the ends justified the means and decided to flip-flop, or
(b) they threatened her and she's going along with it.
I'm going with: seemingly sweet 80 yr old computer illiterate, who as she said, wasn't even aware of the +14,000 get Brookfield Miracle until the press conference started. But she is an offical canvasser.
Yesterday sure was a different day, wasn't it? Quite a usefullness life cycle for somone that is already 80 yrs old.
How patronizing.
If she is mentally feebled because of the effects of her age, then she has no business being a party co-chair of a county.
What I saw in the press conference the other day did not look like a mentally feeble woman.
Standing up to peer pressure is hard. We tell teens to do it. 80 year olds know enough already.
I feel sorry for her. She thought her job as a member of the county board of canvassers was to provide an accurate tally of the votes cast in the county. It was only afterward that she learned her job was to ensure the Democrat candidate won. Accuracy be damned!
Garage,
She sounded like she was pretty spry for an 80 year old on video the other day. 80 doesn't make her dumb, it makes her a lot wiser than you, especially if you think this press release is going anywhere!
Well, if nothing else the "I'm a Senile Old Idiot" defense is a new one.
That's how Reagan got away with Iran-Contra.
Garage would have us believe that the mistake was the Brookfield miracle. Which would mean no votes from Brookfield makes complete sense to him!
Placeholder,
Or how Obama's getting away with the ATF Gunrunner debacle?
why not "all of the above"?
Yea that works for me!
If she is mentally feebled because of the effects of her age, then she has no business being a party co-chair of a county.
No. Ramona didn't even know the +14k votes existed *before* the press conference. She was counting on the integrity of #thingskathyfound on her computer, which as we know now, are supremely suspect to say the least. Nickolaus has a rap sheet of several election irregularities as county clerk - inc. accepting legal immunity from prosection and sending out pre-marked sample ballots marked for Republicans. She's worked directly both for Walker and Prosser, and defiantly keeps election data on a personal computer. Why would you need to transfer public election data to a private computer?
Impound the computer, do a full state investigation/recount, and call it a day.
In Stalin's day old Ramona would have eaten the gun and the party would have seen after her family.
These are kinder gentler times among the Madison ruling elite.
Of course, gm, you're absolutely right. Any time a Republican stronghold votes Republican it's time for an investigation into how Democratic election officials allowed those votes to be reported. It's a good start to have bound and gagged that nice old lady.
I'll say this for your side--you're tireless.
Clearly a case of elder abuse by the Democrat Party that Holder will investigate.
The agism business arose on Facebook today. How could someone that age be trusted with this job??
Wisconsin Supreme Court Chief Justice Shirley Abrahamson is 78, and she will be 86 when her current term expires.
I still say portraying your head functionary in the county as faintly senile and an easily confused nincompoop might not be the best strategy. Really, is the Democrat party that inept?
They might have thought it through a little more before heading down that path.
Still no explanation of an official canvasser not being notified of the startling news that +14,000 votes were discovered?
Still.....nothing...on..that. Okay.
Yesterday Ramona was the offical scorekeeper.
garage mahal remembers that fateful conversation...
"Say, who could we put in charge of our party in Waukesha?"
"Hmmm... we could break out Great Auntie Ramona out of the old folks home."
"Great idea! What could possibly go wrong!"
Less stories. More clear explanations!
Less stories. More clear explanations!
One of two possibilities:
1. The Democrats put a feeble-minded simpleton in charge of monitoring the vote in Waukesha, or
2, They tossed an 80 year old woman under the bus to try to score a political point.
Neither choice looks good.
garage mahal said...
"Why would you need to transfer public election data to a private computer?"
Good question.
I dunno.
But, your reference to “public election data” would seem to support the contention of several commenters here that the current controversy surrounding the Brookfield vote is almost completely manufactured.
A record of the Brookfield vote is on file at the County Clerk's Office. The fact that Kathy Nickolaus failed to tabulate those votes has no bearing whatsoever on their existence or legitimacy; those votes truly are “public” for anyone to verify.
Just sort of taking a crazy flier here, but maybe--just maybe--the official scorekeeper had seen the correct, official tally on election night--y'know, the one that was actually reported by the city of Brookfield--instead of the erroneous tally sent to the AP. I mean, that is kind of her job, right?
Could that be why little old feeble-minded Ramona seemed so sure that everything was just fine at that first press conference? You know, the press conference where she actually spoke her own words in her own voice?
Nah, you're right. You're raising reasonable doubts, that have nothing at all to do with impugning election results-- and, by extension, any future 3-2 WISC decisions-- you don't like.
An early sign of dementia.
BTW, Placeholder;
How are those Milwaukee returns coming?
The fact that Kathy Nickolaus failed to tabulate those votes has no bearing whatsoever on their existence or legitimacy; those votes truly are “public” for anyone to verify.
Kathy Nickolaus is your source for the public election data for Waukesha County.
ambisinistral said...
“2. They tossed an 80 year old woman under the bus to try to score a political point.”
Honestly, isn't that exactly what it looks like?
JohmJ,
Yup, that's exactly what it looks like.
Kathy Nickolaus is your source for the public election data for Waukesha County.
Wait--now you're insinuating that she made up the vote totals that were correctly and officially reported? Seriously?
Wait--now you're insinuating that she made up the vote totals that were correctly and officially reported? Seriously?
gragem mahal -- remember, you can always get yourself out of this corner you've painted yourself into by claiming your old and easily confused.
Eh, gragem mahal is close enough...
Maybe garage and his pals can get Judge Sumi to toss out all 14,000 Brookfield votes because Kathy and Ramona failed to provide an accurate update to the AP.
When I heard her first comment on how the vote counts "jived" I though to myself - great, she's telling it like it is...maybe not eloquent, but honest and spoken like a true Wisconsinite.
I think someone leaned on her over the weekend. The "I'm an old lady, and I don't understand the computers and the robots with their gangs and all the hippity-hop music" excuse, well, I guess it's the best the Democratic handlers could come up with. It's pretty bad, but mildly entertaining.
Her latest statement won't change the outcome of Prosser winning, but creating questions about "the process" gives the pro-Kloppenburg crowd something to be angry about, which keeps the contributions coming in.
The Jibe Lady is Now Speaking Jive
Disavowing Her Initial Truth Vibe
The Lady is Eighty
The Matter is Weighty
Real Votes a Clerk Forgot to Transcribe.
garage mahal said...
"Kathy Nickolaus is your source for the public election data for Waukesha County."
What? Nickolaus somehow manipulated the public record?
That would take a conspiracy involving the local Brookfield paper, which reported the correct totals election night...
http://brookfield-wi.patch.com/articles/brookfield-gives-prosser-nearly-11k-votes
...and the city of Brookfield itself, which also reported the correct vote totals on its website election night...
http://www.ci.brookfield.wi.us/DocumentView.aspx?DID=1542
(Mickey Kaus was among the first to note this.)
Very clever gal, that Kathy!
Now, if your fallback position is that the Koch brothers are behind it, ...I'll listen.
QWhat's even more ridiculous about this claim is word of the press conference leaked in the early afternoon. Shortly after that worl leaked it was going to be about Brookfield's vote not being included in the totals sent to bthe AP the night before.
Are we supposed to believe nobody in the Democratic Party called Ramona up to verify if those rumors were true or not?
How could she possibly not have known about the Brookfield error?
This press release doesn't remotely pass the laugh test.
garage, the return for city of Brookfield were posted 12:30 am the night of the election. The AP and the clerk both omitted those votes. The Clerk corrected the numbers in the canvas. Do you want to suppress the votes of the people of Brookfield like a good fascist or do you want to count the votes?
Or how Obama's getting away with the ATF Gunrunner debacle?
Ooooh, this is good. Is that a wingunnut cause celebre? Tell me more!
Do you want to suppress the votes of the people of Brookfield like a good fascist or do you want to count the votes?
You have to ask?
The full answer is probably that the people of Brookfield are themselves fascists, or else paid agents of the Koch brothers, so the dictates of social justice require that their votes be disallowed.
And just in time, Placeholder comes along with "Look! A squirrel!"
It's as if they're members of some sort of syndicate.
placeholder,
A Marxist wouldn't understand...
Garage,
Are those the votes she originally said she was completely aware of and understood all the details and spoke of the accuracy of the votes or today when she says she hasn't a clue about anything? Which is true? Her original statements in front of the media or those behind closed doors to the Democrat Party?
Again, I guess Brookfield didn't have anyone wanting to come to the polls that day, right? Or the votes that were even shown at HuffingtonPost to have been logged by the city the night of the election? Not a liberal enough outfit for you?
Face it....you lost.
What a tool this old bitch is. Her 15 minutes of lame are almost expired. Fuck off already and take the loss, assholes. Go home and come back next election loaded for bear.
No one -- NO ONE -- has a long game anymore in America; it's all smash 'n grab politics anymore. Fuck them all and let them devour each other in their sharktank of assholery. I'm tired of this shitty polity. I wonder what these feats of dickery will inspire next, and am frankly afraid to contemplate it because if nothing else, this Wisconsin bullshit has demonstrated that some folks' irrationality is approaching a crescendo where nothing short of violence will dial it back. Have Americans really become this stupid and uncivilized?
Next time I hear someone belittling the "Arab Street" for its primitive tribalism that purportedly isn't worthy of or somehow cannot support democratic institutions, after I shit on his shoes I'll remind him to open his eyes and look around the local scene. We're really not that much better anymore, and if not as bad yet, wait a few years. Mission accomplished, neanderthal anarchist fuckwits. "If you can keep it", indeed.
Nickolaus is Today's Katherine Harris
Whom Union Thugs Seek to Embarrass
With Lies and Innuendo
It's Absurd Arguendo
Contrived Over Beers at the Terrace.
What a horrendous article to understand. When a news article is hard to understand it is pretty much guaranteed to be agenda driven. Hardly worth the time to sort out the facts.
What a tool this old bitch is. Her 15 minutes of lame are almost expired.
I love it when Republicans show their true colors. I only wish you'd do it more often.
WineSlob the commenter is on quite a roll, while
Placeholder smears himself with scat like a troll.
wv: "beramm" -- Here now, d'Ass!
And just in time, Placeholder comes along with "Look! A squirrel!"
It's not a squirrel, silly wingnut. It's a Secret Squirrel!
"I love it when Republicans show their true colors. I only wish you'd do it more often."
Such a lack of awareness of one's self is always amusing.
Anyway, she's lying in order to delegitimize the honest outcome of an election. She, a person who took some measure of power over our elections, us contradicting herself horribly, and doing so in order to ruin her own credibility.
'I'm a confused old women... old women shouldn't be trusted! You can't trust all that clear and convincing stuff I said recently, which as an argument against my party's interests, was highly credible. I have no credibility!!!!'
That is disgusting, and anyone who recognizes it is merely telling the truth. In fact, this women has smeared seniors more than anyone who judged her on the content of her own character.
But keep on pretending you're winning all the arguments. We went three-four threads where I proved you were lying, and obviously that didn't slow you down any.
Unions uber ailes!!! Stop throwing baseballs on my lawn.
"Still no explanation of an official canvasser not being notified of the startling news that +14,000 votes were discovered? "
When was that? I've never heard anything about votes being discovered, except from lefty trolls trying to 'frame' what actually happened in a way to rob the legitimacy of the actual election.
The count was not hidden or anything. It's not hard to verify, either. not a single vote was discovered. They counted the votes, and Prosser won, and the unions and democrats lost badly. A reporting mistake kept the totals wrong for a short while, but not a single vote was discovered, lefty shill.
@veni vidi vici 11:46: So what do you reallythink?
@garage@Placeholder: Your schtick is getting really tiresome. At some point anyone other than a venal, partisan liar would concede.
Her latest statement won't change the outcome of Prosser winning, but creating questions about "the process" gives the pro-Kloppenburg crowd something to be angry about, which keeps the contributions coming in.
Heh, true that. Whatever keeps the rubes coming back, eh?
The Democrat's "Slow Reveal" strategy to throw an election has been rendered nugatory. Oh, they are pissed!
Another case where the following statement applies:
Liberals know so much about things that just aren't so.
garage mahal said...
Still no explanation of an official canvasser not being notified of the startling news that +14,000 votes were discovered?
Um, dum-dum, no votes were "discovered"
Nobody asserted that.
Given you don't know the basic facts surrounding the matter, should you really be commenting?
Jay - are you kidding? Knowing the facts makes lying out your a$$ too hard.
IIRC, The Brookfield votes were not reported to the Associated Press who gave their unofficial tally of the vote. The Brookfield votes were provided to the proper election authorities.
What will Holder's DOJ investigate? Witholding information for the AP?
What will we do with the exploding liberal heads when this fact becomes obvious to all.
GrandInquisitor: "Republicans can still win close elections if they make it too hard for democrats to know how many votes to manufacture."
If the dems had known of the Brookfield returns earlier, could they have found 7000 votes? Or is that too big a margin to overcome?
This old lady is like Uncle Leo when he got caught shop lifting, "What? I'm an old man. I was confused!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm2SuAPuA38
"Shameful" should be an option.
Seems like someone is pulling a fast one, and just more evidence as to why a fair investigation, that includes the private computer, is needed just to clear things up. While it certainly looks like human error, it will be best for our faith in voting to clear up the issue.
I spot you that Kathy is incompetent, Doris. Why do you think she has brains enough to create 14000 votes? Do you really believe that no one in the City of Brookfield voted? Isn't there a complete paper trail here? Her computer was just an aggregator and she aggregated wrong. That is why you have canvassing.
It's due to the Progressive Boogie Person Paradox (PBPP). Your enemies are smart enough to blow through layers of checks and balances to corrupt the system and not leave an enough evidence for a credible criminal charge, yet still stupid/insompetent enough to leave tantalizing public clues detectable by non-Fox News addled hipsters.
Like how GWB was an utter moron, yet still outsmarted Congress.
I am too prole for a cocktail napkin calculation, but scribbling on my beer coaster...
34% of registered voters turned out for the SC race.
11% of wisconsin workers are employed by state and local government. Lets assume that all of these voted for Ms. K. This is not quite true of course, a few may be crypto conservatives or in a coma. But lets add in a few state/local retirees to make up the difference.
I should think some of the folks in the 11% are married to other state/local gov employees. Others to conservatives or to non voters. But as a fudge factor lets assume that you multiply the 11% by 1.5 to account for spouses (in good standing/graces), domestic partners, adult children.
By this measure Ms.K should have received a tally around 17% of the registered voters in Buckyland.
Now, the one stat that both ends of the spectrum agree on is that the race was, close enough for government work, split 50:50. Meaning K got...17% of the vote.
So, after all that travail, all those crappy ads, all that emotional investment the Fury of Madison persuaded nobody who did not already have a vested financial interest in preserving the status quo?
Can it really be that the WI Dem. Party and the public employee unions are entirely and unequivocally one unit?
Good Lord, I thought there were a few private sector unionists and old school New Deal farmers still around.
Tacitus2
Haha, just another old party dowager who gets to hang around the courthouse counting room to observe. You can find them in every county large enough to have a central committee. They're sharp too, because they've been politically active most their adult lives.
BUT that generation has resisted computer literacy for the most part, with a few notable exceptions. So she tries on the "not tech-savvy" excuse. Run it up the flagpole! She knows the drill.
Could we get a poll button for "pitiful?"
I'm torn on whether to feel sorry for her or not (I'm guessing county chair for a minority party in suburban Wisconsin is not traditionally a contact sport), but I feel all but certain that be that as it may, they "got to her."
And that's just pitiful. Makes me want to go wash my hands (and I'm a lawyer, for crying out loud).
"
If the dems had known of the Brookfield returns earlier, could they have found 7000 votes? Or is that too big a margin to overcome?"
to be honest, I think they wouldn't have, but I think it's within the realm of possibility.
I hope to see this 'problem' repeated in every swing state in 2012, just to be sure the election is accurate.
If that means a few people have to face a lot of hatred, that's the price we need to pay. Not the price for winning, but the price for a republic.
This is just the fifth phase of the Six Phases of Democratic Defeat otherwise known as scream/cry/cheat/cry.
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