Althouse: "Unions are almost dead."

March 22, 2011

"Unions are almost dead."

"We cannot survive doing what we do but the simple fact of the matter is community organizations are almost dead also. And if you think about what we need to do it may give us some direction which is essentially what the folks that are in charge - the big banks and everything - what they want is stability. There are actually extraordinary things we could do right now to start to destabilize the folks that are in power and start to rebuild a movement."

182 comments:

vbspurs said...: Someone has been reading their Cloward–Piven strategy.

Cheers,
Victoria; 3/22/11, 1:19 PM
Anonymous said...: The Protocols of the Elders of SEIU; 3/22/11, 1:21 PM
Original Mike said...: Is it time to go through the pockets looking for loose change?; 3/22/11, 1:23 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Workers of the World Unite!!

The Leader of the Pitchfork movement has already set the tone.; 3/22/11, 1:24 PM
cold pizza said...: Zombies unite! Undead Workers Local 7143. -CP

wv: dishwo: shankman's life.; 3/22/11, 1:27 PM
Sal said...: No doubt he sees a powerful and lucrative role for himself in our new government.; 3/22/11, 1:30 PM
Christopher in MA said...: "Unions are almost dead."

Would that it were so. But I guarantee you this weekend is going to see a hell of a wake (or zombie resurrection, if you prefer) - Friday is the 100th anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company fire. My netmail news feed this morning already had descendants of the poor girls who died talking about how we need unions more than ever now, "especially after Wisconsin."

Forewarned is forearmed.

WV - "anceste." ISYN.; 3/22/11, 1:30 PM
coketown said...: Left unstated in his mustache-twirling sinister plot is how you destabilize the financial sector through mortgage and student loan defaults when the government controls both markets.; 3/22/11, 1:31 PM
traditionalguy said...: Does SEIU do work in Libya as the Rebel Army? This guy is describing a Libyan meltdown. I remember that the first plans of Janet Napolitano included plans to restrain Tea Party Militia activity in the expected days of chaos. And Farrakhan just warned Obama not to take advantage of his Libyan friend Kadhaffi because the same thing was going to happen here soon. What does Farrakhan know about that we don't know? These are interesting times.; 3/22/11, 1:31 PM
Michael K said...: This, of course, is why unions are anathema to most workers who are in the private sector. George Meany or even Lane Kirkland would have kicked that guy across the street. The old time crafts unions had an important role and still would have if they were smart enough to run apprenticeship programs and sell themselves to high school students who want to have good jobs.

The industrial unions played a role in the robber baron days but demagogues like John L Lewis, who 99% of the people under 50 don't know anything about, pressed the CIO into parasite territory after the serious battles were won.

Now, we have Marxist agitators running what's left of the union movement. I am afraid that Obama's roots with these people run pretty deep. Now comes the test to see if the nation can shake off these parasites or we go down in a muddle of mush.; 3/22/11, 1:36 PM
vbspurs said...: What I hate about what the luxuriantly bearded Stephen Lerner said, is that it allows a foothold of logic to conspiracists, in their belief that certain upheavals are orchestrated.

That is unforgiveable.

Lerner was ousted from SEIU last November, reportedly for spending millions of the union's dollars trying to pursue a plan like the one he details here.

He spent MILLIONS before he was ousted, although he did "pursue" his plan partially.

Yuck.; 3/22/11, 1:38 PM
Mark O said...: Boy, oh boy, is that Glenn Beck crazy or what? No wonder they want to shut him up. He's just nuts. Conspiracy theories. Wacko mundo. Romper Room raging.

Nothing but fantasy.; 3/22/11, 1:44 PM
Toad Trend said...: "Unions are almost dead."

Alinsky - not so much.; 3/22/11, 1:44 PM
Fen said...: Stake it, decapitate it, salt it.

Then nuke it from orbit, just be sure.; 3/22/11, 1:47 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: 20-30 years ago, a universal People's type union may have worked. Join it anf the union handles your benefits. You inform your boss or prospective boss that they can pay a fixed amount per month or hour to fund your fringe benefits. And the boss gets to get out of the employee benefit business and the benefits are not tied to your job.

Win-win! Shoot it might even work today but people are not the joiners they used to be. ie. Bowling Alone.; 3/22/11, 1:49 PM
Fen said...: "they have the money - we need to get it back"

Its not your fricken money, socialist parasite.; 3/22/11, 1:49 PM
Toad Trend said...: @Fen

Fen - on another thread, Trooper referred to 'Fen's Law' (on liberals/leftists) - can you share this please?

Thanks.; 3/22/11, 1:53 PM
Sofa King said...: "A long time ago, I was in Burma, my friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never found anyone who traded with him. One day I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing them away."

"Then why steal them?"

"Because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn."; 3/22/11, 1:54 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: From a comment under the article:

Lerner is a white version of Jesse Jackson. He will harass JP Morgan - until they pay him millions in protection money.

Seems pretty likely.; 3/22/11, 1:54 PM
vbspurs said...: Fen, they're just going to reply that they're talking of bailout moneys, which come from tax payers.

But we all know they mean rich people's money.; 3/22/11, 1:56 PM
Unknown said...: If "inequality in this country is hitting record levels", it's because of people like him and our Duffer-In-Chief.

That unions, hopefully public as well as private, are dead is because the bosses became mobsters (or vice versa), and, worse, community organizers and betrayed the rank and file.

The Drill SGT said...

Workers of the World Unite!!

...You have nothing to lose but your brains.; 3/22/11, 2:05 PM
TMink said...: What was outlined was domestic terrorism. He should be arrested, sent to trial, convicted, and shot.

But only if things work out in that order.

Trey; 3/22/11, 2:08 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/22/11, 2:11 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: Another whack job no one takes seriously.; 3/22/11, 2:13 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Re Income inequality which is a common claim of libruls.

50% of tax filers make between $25,000 & $200,000 and their average is $57K per IRS 2009 tax returns.

48% make less than $25,000 but the stats don't indicate how many of those are retirees or work only part-time or are college students or don't work so the analytical value of the data is limited in some regards. Plus I doubt the data includes non-taxable income like rent subsidies, welfare, college grants, soc sec benefits that are not taxable, free school lunches, govt paid child care, etc.; 3/22/11, 2:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Big Labor has made the mistake of letting the likes of SEIU take the lead in setting labor policy and being Labors mouthpiece.

This deep thinker can't see past his own socialist ideology in that crashing the stock market would decimate union pension funds nationwide that are heavily invested in the market.

In the face of dwindling membership Big Labor has embraced (through the likes of SEIU) open borders and amnesty for illegal aliens in a bid to boost their sagging numbers.

The agenda of the Big Labor/ Democrat party is now directly at odds with the old time middle class union membership but as we can see in Madison Wisconsin, the rank and file still cling to unions as the answer because they literally have no place else to go.

Big Labor has left their membership behind in a bid for continued viability.

The AFL-CIO has been in favor of open borders and amnesty for 10 years now, they don't think that the illegal hordes won't drive down wages and benefits?

They know it will but it's all about the monthly dues baby, Big Labors mothers milk.; 3/22/11, 2:22 PM
jerryofva said...: Lerner is a reincarnation of Leon Trotsky. Like most Jewsih reds he would make his revolution only to find himself looking at the wrong end of an ice pick. These Jewish Reds have never figured out that Progressives hate Jews.; 3/22/11, 2:29 PM
WineSlob said...: The WEAC Teacher Leech Trust
Is a Scam Sham Swindle to Bust
Working Taxpayers
Grub-Lust of the Haters
To the Voters' Abject Disgust.; 3/22/11, 2:30 PM
rhhardin said...: Forehanded is forearmed.; 3/22/11, 2:31 PM
Caroline said...: Grand lefty plan:

Phase 1: Crash "the system"
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Redistribute wealth

They learned economics from the underpants gnomes.; 3/22/11, 2:37 PM
blake said...: Because they scoffed and scorned the Underpants Gnomes' inspiration.; 3/22/11, 2:39 PM
Alex said...: Friday is the 100th anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Company fire.

the left will use this to the end of time to demonize ALL business.; 3/22/11, 2:41 PM
vbspurs said...: Just Lurking wrote:

Phase 1: Crash "the system"
Phase 2: ?
Phase 3: Redistribute wealth

In a democracy, Phase 2 is difficult, because society has laws. That's why it was easier to "crash" a system like an autocratic monarchy in Russia. All you do is agitate, wait for an unpopular war, stage protests and strikes, and go in for the kill.

Oh. Wait.; 3/22/11, 2:43 PM
Anonymous said...: "Lerner was ousted from SEIU last November, reportedly for spending millions of the union's dollars trying to pursue a plan like the one he details here."

Too radical and too wasteful for the SEIU?

That takes some doing. Then again, this guy sound a heck of a lot like Tyler Durden from Fight Club.; 3/22/11, 2:47 PM
Fen said...: Don't Tread: on another thread, Trooper referred to 'Fen's Law' (on liberals/leftists) - can you share this please?

Thanks.6

Fen's Law: The Left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about.

Use it as you want. It may need an edit.; 3/22/11, 2:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Brigham Young:

"Look at the world. The feeling among mankind is 'we will rule or ruin.'"

"An architect may build a splendid habitation, and in so doing do a good work; but a poor fool can come along and with the touch of a torch destroy it."

"Let a few incendiaries go through a city and put the torch here and there, and the city is destroyed—the labor of years, perhaps of centuries, is wasted."

"Does this make great men of them? Perhaps they think so. If they can destroy a city or a nation they think they will get a great name. They will not."; 3/22/11, 3:03 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Unions are also dead because the needle trades left America. And, went to China. (And, other places.)

Basically, it's an outcome of our involvement in Vietnam. Where they had no ports. But military engineers went in. And, dug one out.

Then? Well, longshoremen ruled the roosts at American ports. Container shipping began with the longshoremen dead set against unloading ships containing containers.

So, shipping companies moved their ships into newly built ports. Letting the old longshoremen's unions rot away.

LBJ built the container shipping industry, from the ground up.

Ships don't like to come back empty.

The unions had a lock on the needle trades. (And Walmart's started off by claiming it would only sell American.) So, the customers attitudes had to change, first.

Then? When detroit failed, and Americans were willing to buy Japanese cars, a whole car industry blossomed up in states known as "right to work" states.

Heck, I know one story, where a man whose company manufactured feather dusters (for generations). Was suddenly threatened with unionization in Brooklyn, New York. So he packed up his family. Took his business know how. And, all his business contacts. And, opened shop in Florida. Near Miami. Business bloomed. And, his home was on a canal. So that parked in his back yard was his yacht.

Brooklyn workers lost a wonderful boss. Because they didn't think through the gambit of "voting for union representation." They never got their good jobs back!

Detroit is still dead.

And, Americans? If they saw a union label, would hang the garment back on the rack.; 3/22/11, 3:08 PM
Toad Trend said...: @Fen

"Fen's Law: The Left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about.

Use it as you want. It may need an edit."

Could one say its the same as 'do as I say, not as I do'?; 3/22/11, 3:13 PM
ConstitutionalConservative said...: Some men just want to watch the world burn.; 3/22/11, 3:18 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: So he packed up and took his feather duster business to Miami where business fledged.; 3/22/11, 3:24 PM
Michael K said...: A couple of years ago, the longshoreman's union went on strike in Los Angeles/ Long Beach CA. The reason ?

The shipping companies had installed GPS devices in all their containers. These would track the container down to a meter or two. They could ID the container and sort them out using GPS. The shipping clerks insisted that, GPS or not, they had to clamber over containers looking at labels.

The strike lasted a month or two.

Volume is down at Los Angeles/ Long Beach.

Parasites.; 3/22/11, 3:30 PM
reader_iam said...: So, Lerner's advocating that homeowners and young workers just out of college ruin their credit ratings For The Greater Good?

Huh.; 3/22/11, 3:31 PM
Once written, twice... said...: I rarely post seriously on Althouse because it is generally not a serious place. But I will give it a shot here.

I think many people in this country believe that are not only unions dead but also the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party has become a minor subsidiary of corporations. The Republican party has become the main political tool and voice of corporations and not main street.

History will show that the Citizen United decision was the most dramatic event in corporate domination of the U.S. government.

And corporations do dominate.
Besides Citizen United, among otherthings...
-corporations own and tightly control all major news organizations.
-they will be the dominate financiers of all elections after the Citizen United and the decimation of unions take effect.
-corporate control of the Internet will be completed when Republicans gut net neutrality.
-corporations are using to great effect trade agreements (like NAFTA) to place themselves beyond any regulation or control.

It has been at least a thirty year battle and it is clear that we now live in a corporate dominated world and a faux democracy.

But at least we have American Idol. Right Ann?; 3/22/11, 3:40 PM
DaveW said...: If they're dead why are they making so damn much noise?; 3/22/11, 3:40 PM
kent said...: I rarely post seriously on Althouse

A record which remains unbroken.; 3/22/11, 3:49 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: -they will be the dominate financiers of all elections after the Citizen United and the decimation of unions take effect.

Citizens United had nothing to do with campaign finance, moron.

Rewind yourself and check those talking points again.; 3/22/11, 3:49 PM
blake said...: Jay--

I find your premise--that the overturning of parts of an unConstitutional law merely eight years old is some kind of harbinger of doom--strained.; 3/22/11, 3:49 PM
ConstitutionalConservative said...: Lerner: "There is a third thing we can think about what if public employee unions instead of just being on the defensive put on the collective bargaining table when they negotiate they say we demand as a condition of negotiation that the government renegotiate - it’s crazy that you’re paying too much interest to your buddies the bankers it’s a strike issue - we will strike unless you force the banks to renegotiate.

Then if you add on top of that if we really thought about moving the kind of disruption in Madison but moving that to Wall Street and moving that to other cities around the country.

I think that it is becoming increasingly clear that Madison is not just about Walker and Budget Repair...

The Halloween Jack is a real cool cat
And he lives on top of {Manhattan} JP Morgan Chase.
The elevator's broke, so he slides down a rope.
Onto the street below, oh Tarzie, go man go!; 3/22/11, 3:51 PM
reader_iam said...: What Kent said.

What Blake said.; 3/22/11, 3:54 PM
michaele said...: Glenn Beck will be airing the video and connecting some dots on his TV show this afternoon.; 3/22/11, 3:56 PM
Hagar said...: I think there has to be some kind of unions. For that matter, there will be whether I think so or not. As a thought experiment: If all memory of unions were wiped from mankind at midnight tonight, 10,000 people across the world would wake up with the idea tomorrow morning and start organizing.

However, "Wagner Act unions" are unsustainable and apparently indeed are on the way out. Unions and management have to somehow understand that they are sailing on the same ship and cooperate in keeping it afloat and seaworthy. The question remains how you distinguish cooperation from collusion, human nature being human nature.
And government needs to be kept separate from both company management and unions, though I don't know how this is to be achieved either.

As for the present situation, I wonder if the teachers' unions will ever realize just what kind of people they are associated with, now that the SEIU has taken over the AFL-CIO?; 3/22/11, 3:56 PM
reader_iam said...: Say, OT, but I daresay only slightly, did you all catch Hugo Chavez' latest?

"I have always said, heard, that it would not be strange that there had been civilization on Mars, but maybe capitalism arrived there, imperialism arrived and finished off the planet," Chavez said in speech to mark World Water Day.

LMAO.

/OT, but I daresay only slightly; 3/22/11, 3:59 PM
kent said...: "I have always said, heard, that it would not be strange that there had been civilization on Mars, but maybe capitalism arrived there, imperialism arrived and finished off the planet," Chavez said in speech to mark World Water Day.

Pretty much what Retread just burbled, above; only with the singular benefit of being, mercifully, briefer.; 3/22/11, 4:09 PM
Phil 314 said...: BLOGGER ATE MY COMMENT!!!

short version confirmed by Jay Retread:

Democratic proxy war will be:

Unions vs Big Business.

But its not 1931!; 3/22/11, 4:13 PM
Brian Brown said...: "Fen's Law: The Left doesn't really believe in the things they lecture the rest of us about.

Use it as you want. It may need an edit."

How about:
Hypocrisy is a virtue for the modern, "progressive" left.; 3/22/11, 4:17 PM
kent said...: SHORRTER RETREAD [::anguished, floating up from darkness of his parents' basement::]

"... but MOOOOOOOmmmmmmmmmm!!! I'm busy online, raging against the maCHIIIIIIIIIIIInnnnnne -- !!!"; 3/22/11, 4:17 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: Michaele, you're a genuine soothsayer.

Beck just now said that listening will make my hair will fall so naturally I stopped.; 3/22/11, 4:18 PM
Brian Brown said...: Oh this was great:

Jay Retread said...

I rarely post seriously on Althouse because it is generally not a serious place. But I will give it a shot here.

Then,
History will show that the Citizen United decision was the most dramatic event in corporate domination of the U.S. government.

Again, it is impossible to parody you people anymore.; 3/22/11, 4:19 PM
Chris said...: It's always the Big Banks. What about the little banks? Don't they play a proportionately small, yet cumulative role in the genocide of the middle class?; 3/22/11, 4:24 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Chips Ohoy, if "fledged" means feathers like you find on baby birds (fledglings) ... then YES. Business was so much better, the guy was able to buy a yacht. And, "park" it in his back yard. Because the property was on a canal.

Again, the feather duster factory workers thought they had the owner over a barrel. As a matter of fact, one of the union honchos even offered to "buy him out."

But the business wasn't "fledgling" at all. It was a business this guy got from his dad. Not new technology. But surprisingly, even now, still in demand.; 3/22/11, 4:25 PM
Kirby Olson said...: Mafia goons from NYC and Jersey run many of the union rackets in this area. They'll beat you to death with a baseball bat if you don't join their closed shop.

That's not so true for the teachers' unions, but it is for many others.

You get the picture in some of the Sopranos episodes.

When the Union people show up, the police have to escort businesspeople and their children to keep them from getting killed or severely mauled.; 3/22/11, 4:32 PM
Anonymous said...: REG: Right. Now, uh, item four: attainment of world supremacy within the next five years. Uh, Francis, you've been doing some work on this.

FRANCIS: Yeah. Thank you, Reg. Well, quite frankly, siblings, I think five years is optimistic, unless we can smash the Roman empire within the next twelve months.

REG: Twelve months?

FRANCIS: Yeah, twelve months. And, let's face it. As empires go, this is the big one, so we've got to get up off our arses and stop just talking about it!; 3/22/11, 4:32 PM
Anonymous said...: Jay R. said, "History will show that the Citizen United decision was the most dramatic event in corporate domination of the U.S. government."

That's right, Jay. Let's get rid of all corporations completely.

And the people will be employed by.........who, exactly?

And the place that makes and sells the computer on which you type out your brainless musings will be..........who, exactly?

I suppose you believe that, with all corporations dead, little elves appear at night and help the lone garage PC makers finish their assembling and packaging?; 3/22/11, 4:32 PM
Palladian said...: I found this in my faculty mailbox today. I'm sure it will be an evening of endless fun! There's something very funny about the idea of Frances Fox Piven and Cornel West being called moderators.

And, just from a graphic and aesthetic viewpoint, it's probably the ugliest flyer I've ever found in my mailbox. I work at a prestigious art school, you'd think whoever produced these could have, you know, tried a little bit.; 3/22/11, 4:37 PM
Carol_Herman said...: Laws making corporations possible meant people could RISK CAPITAL and go into businesses that FAIL. By being incorporated individuals did not have to worry their wealth would be compromised in bankruptcy court.

Take away the safety net, and going into business isn't worth the risks.; 3/22/11, 4:37 PM
cubanbob said...: Hopefully the next Administration and republican congress will repeal the Wagner Act, the Davis-Bacon Act and disallow Federal matching funds to and the tax deductibility of taxes paid to local and state governments that permit civil service unions.

Along with that they will do a serious review of statutes and regulations that hamper manufacturing and exports with the intent to eliminate them and increase both manufacturing and exports. This country needs serious tax reform to get business moving but it also needs to remove impediments to growth as well, particulalry to manufacturing.; 3/22/11, 4:38 PM
Christopher said...: There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead; 3/22/11, 4:41 PM
Palladian said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/22/11, 4:41 PM
Bushman of the Kohlrabi said...: I for one am looking forward to the coming worker's paradise! No more greedy corporations. Only those who agree to work in organic goat cheese coops will be allowed to remain in the private sector. All others will be required to work for government with free health care and pensions for all!; 3/22/11, 4:51 PM
Palladian said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/22/11, 4:56 PM
Conservative Playa said...: Jamie Dimon appreciates your support. Perhaps he'll buy a Hang Fung Gold Toilet with his well earned money.
http://most-expensive.net/toilets; 3/22/11, 4:57 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Palladian:

It would be great if they'd allow you to offer running commentary at that gathering of librul dopes.

As I am sure you know, Piven & West are two human leeches who have made a very nice, comfortable living decrying what a rotten country this is.; 3/22/11, 5:01 PM
PaulV said...: Judson Memorial was bankrolled by Kock of his time, John D. Rockefeller; 3/22/11, 5:06 PM
Brian Brown said...: The folks that control this country care about one thing how the stock market goes what the bond market does

Apparently this bozo doesn't realize that your average union retirement fund invests in: *GASP* stocks and bonds; 3/22/11, 5:11 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Corprations are a means to an end. In that way they serve a good function for the many. But now without regulations and control they are becoming the ends that serve very few.; 3/22/11, 5:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Palladian,
They are ramping up to their May days of "action," whatever that means. Somehow, I think violence will be involved.

This Lerner has apparently been to the White House 4 times and to Treasury. Gosh, that's a lot of tours! I hate to quote Beck, but there it is.; 3/22/11, 5:20 PM
Revenant said...: But now without regulations and control they are becoming the ends that serve very few.

Corporations are more regulated today than they have ever been.

But you're right about the second part. That's the inevitable result of favoring massive corporate regulations -- the only corporations that can exist are the ones who can adapt to the regulation. The smaller companies get crushed by the burden placed on them by the government.; 3/22/11, 5:21 PM
Dear corrupt left, go F yourselves said...: Unions have turned into pure evil.; 3/22/11, 5:23 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: So, here's more on the story about the big pay boost for the Republican mistress.

So many of us are wondering how Walker's Chief of Staff found and extra $12k for this mistress to Republican State Senator Randy Hopper when "Wisconsin is broke."

Hey, Meade and Ann, will you be doing any gotchya pictures on Randy Hopper's mistress?; 3/22/11, 5:24 PM
kent said...: Shorter AlphaLib: "SQUIRREL -- !!!"; 3/22/11, 5:30 PM
PogoПОССУМ said...: Long live Great May 2011 Социалистический виток Socialist Revolution--main event of 21st century, beginning of worldwide historic turn of humanity away from capitalism and to полезный идиот Glorious Socialism!

P.S. Slogan is copy of old official Soviet slogan, what is no longer need as because СССР is not as you say livingk.

Победа!
Victory!; 3/22/11, 5:36 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Unions are almost dead; 3/22/11, 5:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Corprations [sic] are a means to an end. In that way they serve a good function for the many. But now without regulations and control they are becoming the ends that serve very few."

And,

"Corporations are more regulated today than they have ever been.
"

Jay R, you are dead wrong in your outlook. Just plain and simply wrong.

With all the regulations of corporations in place now, the "few" of which you speak are the politicians that regulate them, not the capitalists that fund them.

Corporations are the slush funds of the regulators.

So the way to fix this isn't to restrict corporations' speech, but to get rid of the regulations and regulators.; 3/22/11, 5:43 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Quayle, you are getting your wish. Let's see how that works out. I suspect it won't mean less government and true conservatives are not going to be very happy.; 3/22/11, 5:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Jay R.

I'd rather the game was "clearly no rules" rather than "oh, we have rules to help you (but there are more rules than you can possibly understand, but trust us, and trust our motives, and trust our hidden alliances, and trust that we have your best interests in mind, except when we move freely from corporations to government and back and help our friends.)

At least with Option A I know where I and everyone stands and I might have a chance.

The lie of liberalism's statism is that on the surface it is sold as helping the little guy, but underneath it is about helping the hidden political alliances.

Or did you think that all the stimulus money went randomly 50% to republican connected corporations?

The whole thing is a den of snakes, but regulations only enable the king snakes. They do nothing for me.; 3/22/11, 6:04 PM
Once written, twice... said...: But I hope the rest of you Althouse Hillbillies continue to live comfortable within your Republican/corporations/Rush Limbaugh are good and Dems/unions are bad intellectually narrow universe. You are going to be hilariously surprised!; 3/22/11, 6:06 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: But now without regulations and control they are becoming the ends that serve very few.

Indeed. The absence of corporate regulations and no taxes explains why we're the go to haven for corporations the world over and our 1% unemployment rate.; 3/22/11, 6:06 PM
Chef Mojo said...: Heya, Alpha!

What's up with your war-mongering, war criminal Boy God Obama?

Been waiting to see you poke you your vile head up out of the ooze to ask you that.; 3/22/11, 6:06 PM
Trooper York said...: There hasn't been an American Idol thread in a long time and this blog is much the poorer for it.

Instead you have douchenozzles like Retread spouting union talking points about how there should be no corporations that aren't controlled by the government.

That's a whole lot of fun.; 3/22/11, 6:07 PM
kent said...: Shorter Retread: [::sets several small fires, masturbates furiously::]; 3/22/11, 6:09 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Quayle, the joke's on you. The Dems are becoming as much the corporate whore's as the Republicans. They have the money after all.; 3/22/11, 6:10 PM
Brian Brown said...: Jay Retread said...

Corprations are a means to an end. In that way they serve a good function for the many. But now without regulations and control they are becoming the ends that serve very few

Yeah, Nancy, Harry & Barry went and done closed the SEC, and all other federal regulatory agencies, don't you know!!!!; 3/22/11, 6:12 PM
JP said...: So confusing with all these abbreviations of "unions".

SEIU, AFL-CIO, IBEW..and on and on..

It should be simplified.

CCCP/USSR, simplified to the inth..The Soviet Union.; 3/22/11, 6:13 PM
Brian Brown said...: Jay Retread said...

Quayle, the joke's on you. The Dems are becoming as much the corporate whore's as the Republicans.

Actually bozo, the joke is on you.

Enron made the largest donation in the history of the DNC when Bill Clinton (a golfing buddy of Ken Lay) was in office.

Obama received more BP money than any other candidate.

The five richest US Senators are all Democrats.

You continue to belcown yourself by the minute.; 3/22/11, 6:14 PM
blake said...: That's priceless: The Democrats "are becoming"--as if they weren't always.

You statists never seem to get that: Small government types are way less pro-"Big Business" than you.

The instant you say "The government's gonna regulate X", X is going to be influencing the government in its own favor. Netwon's third law as it applies to societies.; 3/22/11, 6:14 PM
Brian Brown said...: But now without regulations and control

I like how she freely admits that corporations need controlled by the likes of Nancy Pelosi...; 3/22/11, 6:15 PM
blake said...: Hey, here's fun, Troop, and you probably know this:

Every single one of those Film Actors Guild types bitching about corporations IS a corporation.

Every. Single. One.; 3/22/11, 6:16 PM
victoria said...: Just remember, people, that this guy is not speaking for the SEUI, he was ousted from the organization. What he says matters nothing to those of any intelligence.

Vicki from Pasadena; 3/22/11, 6:20 PM
Trooper York said...: Well except for Charley Sheen.

He is a force of nature.; 3/22/11, 6:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Jay R. the last bank to rob is the credit of the future tax payers (the current tax payer receipts having already been plundered.)

And, pray tell, which party most responsible for the amassing of large pools of dollars in the government coffers, and therefore of the plundering?

You betcha, the democrats, who forced through the laws that make that government spending pie chart so unevenly cut.

Yet you decry corporations as evil.

But, ya know, Walmart doesn't sick the Walmart Revenue Service on me and force me to buy brocolli and house slippers.

The government pool that is getting plundered is built by absolute coercion of the force of the total state.

But you think the corporations are evil, you deluded fool.; 3/22/11, 6:26 PM
Christopher said...: Victoria,

He was only ousted after having spent millions of dollars on actions which, as Business Insider put it, closely resembled some of his remarks on destabilization,; 3/22/11, 6:33 PM
ConstitutionalConservative said...: Vicki said: Just remember, people, that this guy is not speaking for the SEUI (sic), he was ousted from the organization.

Do you have a link for that, I can't seem to find anything that states it definitively. TIA; 3/22/11, 6:34 PM
ConstitutionalConservative said...: Clarify: a link beyond the blog link in the BI article.

wv - speshil (well isn't it?); 3/22/11, 6:44 PM
gadfly said...: Sofa King missed "the rest of the story."

Bruce Wayne: That man in Burma, did you ever catch him?
Alfred Pennyworth: Oh yes.
Bruce Wayne: How?
Alfred Pennyworth: We burned the forest down.

Sounds lijke a plan.; 3/22/11, 6:45 PM
Pastafarian said...: Oh, my word, AlphaLiberal -- that's a raise of a whole whopping $5 per hour. My goodness gracious.

What a scandal that is. Have the FBI and Interpol been notified of this?; 3/22/11, 6:57 PM
Phil 314 said...: Just remember, people, that this guy is not speaking for the SEUI, he was ousted from the organization. What he says matters nothing to those of any intelligence.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain; 3/22/11, 7:01 PM
ricpic said...: I swear the world will be undone by these dudes who have daddy problems.; 3/22/11, 7:05 PM
Anonymous said...: "Left unstated in his mustache-twirling sinister plot is how you destabilize the financial sector through mortgage and student loan defaults when the government controls both markets."

They control Obama.

They're already INSIDE your government.

They ARE the government.; 3/22/11, 7:05 PM
vbspurs said...: (I second Trooper's petition for more levity, BTW); 3/22/11, 7:06 PM
Palladian said...: Blogger disappeared my previous comment, which went something like this:

Jay Retread said... "I rarely post seriously on Althouse because it is generally not a serious place. But I will give it a shot here."

LOL. "Rarely post seriously on Althouse = 61 pages of comments left here over the last two years. Of course maybe you mean you rarely post seriously under the name "Jay Retread". But what about when you used to post as L.E. Lee? Was that serious? Or what about when you posted under these other names:

NotAHillbilly
ChiMan
UW Law Babe
Coffee Guy
Jimmy
Fiscal Conservative Guy
In the Mood
Jake
Sussed
Denver

Were those serious comments? Skip to around page 25 of "Jay Retread's" comments and amuse (or frighten) yourself noticing how he switched back and forth between usernames, sometimes on the same threads! Also note the consistent bitter jealousy directed towards Meade. Creepy!; 3/22/11, 7:06 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Where is Althouse?

Don't tell me..

At the rotunda.; 3/22/11, 7:21 PM
Revenant said...: An acquaintance of mine is a union activist. Needless to say, I avoid discussing politics with her.

But I was a bit amused when the union she represents was crushed by SEIU using a variety of illegal and unethical tactics. She was shocked that a union would act that way.

I figure, give it time. She'll see the light one day.; 3/22/11, 7:22 PM
Anonymous said...: now without regulations and control

Really. Come on, tool. Business is massively regulated now. Like history, there is more law now than there has ever been.

Also, Jay, tell us: why will we be hilariously surprised? Will it be that Republicans take the House? Will it be that Obama invades some tinpot dictatorship? What?

I am nervous.; 3/22/11, 7:24 PM
JAL said...: RICO?

Not on Holder's watch.

Pocket.

In.; 3/22/11, 7:33 PM
Big Mike said...: If the unions are "almost dead," it's a clear case of suicide.

Poor Jay Retread. He simply cannot shake the paradigm of "corporations bad, without liberals the US would swiftly devolve into laissez-faire capitalism and utter social Darwinism."

In a global economy, people need to be aware of what their labor costs, and try to deliver at least as much value to their corporation. That goes for me every bit as much as it goes for service employees, school teachers, and auto workers. Union leaders don't seem able to grasp that simple reality, and now they're cutting the throats of their own membership. Sorry, but there it is.; 3/22/11, 7:36 PM
test said...: "Jay Retread said...

But I hope the rest of you Althouse Hillbillies continue to live comfortable within your Republican/corporations/Rush Limbaugh are good and Dems/unions are bad intellectually narrow universe. You are going to be hilariously surprised!"

I love it when the intellectual juveniles lecture us about our narrow universe. Grow the fuck up.; 3/22/11, 7:38 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: @Jay Retread

History will show that the Citizen United decision was the most dramatic event in corporate domination of the U.S. government.

It is very evident you have never read the Citizens United decision. Had you done so, you would know it benefits unions as well as corporations.

You were right about one thing. You do not post seriously.; 3/22/11, 7:43 PM
Anonymous said...: It is very evident you have never read the Citizens United decision.

But he's read about it at leftist hothouses. That's what's important.

By the way, Jay: is the New York Times a corporation? Is the Daily Kos a corporation? What about the SEIU?; 3/22/11, 7:56 PM
Michael K said...: "
I rarely post seriously on Althouse because it is generally not a serious place. But I will give it a shot here."

If that drivel is the best you can do, we should be thankful you do not post more.; 3/22/11, 7:56 PM
Michael K said...: "You are going to be hilariously surprised!"

I hope so but the way back is a long one. National insolvency seems to be the goal of the lefties, although maybe I should ease up on them. After all, they have never signed the front of a paycheck. They know nothing about how to start and run a business that can survive. The pseudo-lefties like Immelt are really making the greenies into their bitches to make even more money for offshore investments, just like Soros.; 3/22/11, 8:03 PM
Wince said...: Hey, Meade and Ann, will you be doing any gotchya pictures on Randy Hopper's mistress?

I certainly fucking hope so, we Althouse Hillbillies are a lecherous bunch.; 3/22/11, 8:12 PM
flicka47 said...: I usually just read you great folks but this just can't be passed on...

Lerner: "There is a third thing we can think about what if public employee unions instead of just being on the defensive put on the collective bargaining table when they negotiate they say we demand as a condition of negotiation that the government renegotiate - it’s crazy that you’re paying too much interest to your buddies the bankers it’s a strike issue - we will strike unless you force the banks to renegotiate.

How do governments re-negotiate with themselves? Wouldn't the "debts" a state/local government have be the bonds they sold to raise cash?

"Our bonds are costing too much so we're only gonna pay half of what we were before!" Good luck with that, if they plan on selling any new bonds...snicker...; 3/22/11, 8:21 PM
Big Mike said...: Margaret Thatcher once said that the problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of someone else's money.

For Wisconsin the "sooner or later" arrived in 2011. Deal with it.; 3/22/11, 8:22 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Netflix is down?; 3/22/11, 8:58 PM
William said...: When I read about bankers and unions fighting for leverage, it's like watching lions and hyenas vying for control of a dead carcass. Speaking as a buffalo with arthritic knees, I know the carcass will not win and next day they'll still be hungry. That said, Lerner adds a bit of rabies into the mix.; 3/22/11, 9:00 PM
Carol_Herman said...: The unions have safety under the democrap's umbrella. With so many bad vibes shooting through the populace, you'd think they'd be on the run.

While the goofy republican party can't find the boat that would take them to the mainstream.

The democraps have to contend with their left. And, the unions. While the republicans are weighted down by the religious nutters.

I don't becry seeing the union folk in action.

I do worry, however, that it's not enough to turn the tides when people go out to vote.

CATNIP scares me.; 3/22/11, 9:04 PM
Carol_Herman said...: "Unite" or untie. I always thought that expression meant you could trip over your shoe laces.; 3/22/11, 9:05 PM
Helmut for Boskone said...: Hey, isn't this Lerner genius spouting the same crap Michael Moore was spewing on Maddow about a week ago while waving handcuffs around? It's a meme!!! And no, I didn't watch MSNBC, I saw it on the Innertubes.; 3/22/11, 9:10 PM
The Dude said...: The man that taught me carpentry was born 100 years ago. He told me about working as a union carpenter when electric circular saws were first introduced. The union forbade their use on the job - all boards had to be cut by hand, no power saws allowed. This meant that jobs took longer, carpenters got more hours on the job and everything they built cost more than it otherwise could have. Idiots of the world, unite!; 3/22/11, 9:20 PM
vnjagvet said...: There's an old word for this, Sixty:

"Featherbedding" is the practice of hiring more workers than are needed to perform a given job, or to adopt work procedures which appear pointless, complex and time-consuming merely to employ additional workers.[1] The term "make-work" is sometimes used as a synonym for featherbedding.

It is as old as unions themselves. BTW, it killed the US railroad industry and damn near killed the US airline and auto industry.

The airlines saved themselves by using the bankruptcy laws to shed onerous union contracts with the pilots (ALPA), mechanics (IAM) and baggage handlers (Teamsters). School is still out on the auto industry even after the federal takeover of GM and Chrysler.; 3/22/11, 9:27 PM
Palladian said...: L. E. Lee
NotAHillbilly
ChiMan
UW Law Babe
Coffee Guy
Jimmy
Fiscal Conservative Guy
In the Mood
Jake
Sussed
Denver

Blogger disappeared my previous comment, which went something like this:

Jay Retread said... "I rarely post seriously on Althouse because it is generally not a serious place. But I will give it a shot here."

LOL. "Rarely post seriously on Althouse = 61 pages of comments left here over the last two years. Of course maybe you mean you rarely post seriously under the name "Jay Retread". But what about when you used to post as L.E. Lee? Was that serious? Or what about when you posted under these other names:

NotAHillbilly
ChiMan
UW Law Babe
Coffee Guy
Jimmy
Fiscal Conservative Guy
In the Mood
Jake
Sussed
Denver

Were those serious comments? Skip to around page 25 of "Jay Retread's" comments and amuse (or frighten) yourself noticing how he switched back and forth between usernames, sometimes on the same threads! Also note the consistent bitter jealousy directed towards Meade. Creepy!; 3/22/11, 9:28 PM
Anonymous said...: Ruin banks and economy + ??? = more money for ordinary citizens.

Sound logical. What could possibly go wrong?; 3/22/11, 9:35 PM
Palladian said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/22/11, 9:37 PM
Palladian said...: My earlier comment about "Jay Retread" was released from the Blogger jail. Do check it out, if you want to know the story of the Retread. He used to be known as "L.E. Lee" and in this thread he reminds us of his greatest invention made under that moniker: "Althouse Hillbillies", a designation so hilariously inapt, banal and ridiculous that it's memorable. Under his "L.E. Lee" guise, he also spent a lot of time accusing me of being a fake homosexual, which is a charge difficult to personally disprove to him since I refuse to work with anything shorter than 8 inches and from his tone and concerns you can definitely sense that he's at least 6 inches shy of that.; 3/22/11, 9:41 PM
Palladian said...: Google/Blogger really has a terrible case of indigestion today :(

Maybe Eric Schmidt should spend less time having dinners with Barack Obama and more time, you know, updating his fucking blog comments application every decade or so.; 3/22/11, 9:43 PM
DADvocate said...: the rest of you Althouse Hillbillies

Don't call me an Althouse Hillbilly. I'm just a plain ole hillbilly. Lived in Appalachia all my life and proud of it.

Come on down sometime and visit. We can fish, hunt, hike, canoe. I can teach you about life in the hills and mountains. Ever see the movie Deliverance?; 3/22/11, 9:53 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Palladian, weirdos like you and the delusional fantasies you expouse prove that it is not worthwhile to try to have serious discussions on Althouse.; 3/22/11, 9:54 PM
Palladian said...: "Palladian, weirdos like you and the delusional fantasies you expouse prove that it is not worthwhile to try to have serious discussions on Althouse."

LOL. Gotcha :); 3/22/11, 10:01 PM
Chef Mojo said...: @Jay Retread:

Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, ok?

Well, I can wish, can't I?; 3/22/11, 10:04 PM
kent said...: it is not worthwhile to try to have serious discussions on Althouse.

"Serious discussions" = "nodding in silent, solemn agreement with the voices in Retread's head," evidently.

*snort*; 3/22/11, 10:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Why do these loser leftists keep coming here under different names? It's so common as to be banal at this point?

Embarrassment at previous comments, I guess. But they just can't stay away from the vortex.

P.S.: Not you pbandj.; 3/22/11, 10:23 PM
Anne M Ford said...: Jay Retread said...But I hope the rest of you Althouse Hillbillies continue to live comfortable within your Republican/corporations/Rush Limbaugh are good and Dems/unions are bad intellectually narrow universe. You are going to be hilariously surprised!
Ahhh the sweet sound of the liberal concession speech.; 3/22/11, 10:37 PM
Revenant said...: I kind of like being called a hillbilly. It is hilariously inapt.; 3/22/11, 11:29 PM
Fen said...: *sweeps up carcass of JayRetread*

You guys are meanies! LOL.

(and I don't think thats coming out of the carpet); 3/22/11, 11:34 PM
kent said...: I wouldn't mind being called a "Miskatonic Hillbilly," I suppose. Marryin' me some suitably nubile and frolicksome cousin, while simultaneously worshipping a Greater Old One or three...; 3/22/11, 11:59 PM
Fen said...: ah hell, I think the cat just squatted on JayRetard's remains.

oh well. ashes to ashes, shit to shit.; 3/23/11, 12:00 AM
SukieTawdry said...: Kudos to Pace University. When's the Right Forum 2011?

Where does Lerner think he's going to get wealth to redistribute once he's crashed the stock and bond markets and ruined the banks? I know that will pretty much wipe me out.; 3/23/11, 1:04 AM
AllenS said...: I don't like being called a hillbilly. I'm not a hillbilly. I've never been one. I'm a knuckledragger through and through.; 3/23/11, 6:52 AM
Once written, twice... said...: Please return to your uniform monotony. I realize the owner of this blog and it's few bedraggled adherents freak out when someone interrupts their daily clusterfuck.

I will return to limiting my post to now and again just making fun of you. No need for wasting my time with anything more serious.; 3/23/11, 7:40 AM
Fen said...: oh don't flatter yourself, JayRetread. You weren't even an appetizer.

You do raise a good question though: why are all the Leftists here so stupid? You'd think the law of averages would work in an intelligent one every now and then. Or was that supposed to be you?

Maybe its because most lefties are just plain stupid. It would certainly explain why they need all these "studies" affirming I'm smart! Not like everybody says... like dumb... I'm smart and I want respect!; 3/23/11, 8:00 AM
Fen said...: Ya know, I was going to link to the vid just for fun, but you're not even worth the effort.; 3/23/11, 8:04 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: Wait, you mean you were serious?; 3/23/11, 8:05 AM
Ignorance is Bliss said...: And just to clarify, I'm more of a mouth-breather.; 3/23/11, 8:06 AM
test said...: "You do raise a good question though: why are all the Leftists here so stupid?"

Three reasons:

1. The smart ones know they'd have to spend most of their time agreeing that the stupid shit the dumb ones say is wrong.

2. Most policy differences arise from base disagreements about how things should be organized. Conservatives don't believe government works well and therefore it should be limited to things it does well, and competition is good. Liberals think government is better than anything else, and further that competition is a waste of resources. Therefore all discussions end up on this point. It's boring.

You can have intelligent conversations with people who disagree with your solution but who agree your methodology works in at least some cases.

3. They don't want to out themselves as moderates and be forced to endure the attacks from people who control their party. They prefer to pretend those people don't exist so they can believe the Democratic Party agrees with them. Engaging the loons makes this difficult.; 3/23/11, 8:37 AM
TMink said...: Fen, I do not think that they are stupid in other areas of their lives, they are just not at all thoughtfull concerning their politics. Their politics is typically a well intentioned wish fulfillment in which they wish to remake government into their coddling mother who infantilizes them. They really fear conservatives who have a more paternal, stern, and withholding concept of government.

This is born out in that most progressives did not grow up with a father.

Trey; 3/23/11, 8:37 AM
The Dude said...: Jay Retard - what exactly is "expouse"? You must be smart to make up big words like that.; 3/23/11, 8:39 AM
knox said...: ALTHOUSE HILBILLIES OF THE WORLD UNITE; 3/23/11, 8:53 AM
ken in tx said...: The term 'hillbilly' originally referred to one who lived in the hills of Ulster and supported William of Orange as King of England. Many of these people immigrated to western Pennsylvania in the 1700s. After the Whiskey Rebellion was put down in the 1790s, many of them moved down the Appalachians into the south, where they could continue to make un-taxed whiskey. Hillbillies come by their anti-tax, anti-federal government sentiments legitimately.; 3/23/11, 9:08 AM
Once written, twice... said...: Ridgid ideological conformity is maintained here because that is how Ann Althouse likes it.; 3/23/11, 9:08 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Where do people get the idea that socialism doesn't involve corporations or that it would make corporations more ethical?

If government is choosing the winners and losers, the corporations most likely to win are going to be very very rich, very very politically well-connected, and very very generous in handing out favors to the politically powerful.

How anyone could believe that that's likely to lead to better times is beyond me.; 3/23/11, 9:14 AM
Fen said...: JayLibtard: Ridgid ideological conformity is maintained here because that is how Ann Althouse likes it.

That everyone here hates you has nothing to do with "rigid ideological conformity". And stop projecting.

When you call us Hillbillies, you mean to slime us as toothless ignorant rednecks living in a double-wide while fucking our sisters.

Then you whine and moan like a littel bitch because you get a bit of pushback.

Pathetic. You should be the poster child for abortion.; 3/23/11, 9:33 AM
test said...: "Jay Retread said...

Ridgid ideological conformity is maintained here because that is how Ann Althouse likes it."

These guys should at least try to keep up. The left hates and would like to ostracize Professor Althouse because she introduces a tiny piece of ideological non-conformity too close to their own world. The fact that idiots like this attack her on the basis of enforcing viewpoint control his while attempting to enforce conformity is beyond parody.

Academia likes to claim it teaches students to think for themselves. Epic fail. Instead, they learn to regurgitate their rehearsed slogans whenever they encounter any circumstance outside their preferred environment.

Democracy results in non preferred results? It's a dictatorship! People say things you don't agree with? Ideological conformity! The economy hiccups? Corporations!

There's no thought.; 3/23/11, 9:36 AM
wordsmith2 said...: "Workers of the World Unite!" had to have been written on the statue by a hardline socialist from out of state. Everything is spelled correctly.; 3/23/11, 9:36 AM
DADvocate said...: Ridgid ideological conformity is maintained here because that is how Ann Althouse likes it.

Of course, if that were true you would be barred from posting here like the libs at Lawyers, Guns and Money banned Meade. at's maintaining rigid ideological conformity.; 3/23/11, 9:43 AM
kent said...: Then you whine and moan like a littel bitch because you get a bit of pushback.

A genuinely invidious comparison, grotesquely insulting to little bitches everywhere. I know if I were a little bitch, I'd most likely resent the holy hell out of it.; 3/23/11, 9:46 AM
Lukedog said...: Agree completely with Jay Retread.

This blog is a place where differing opinions are immediately greeted with name calling and overt hostility. (tool, moron, leftard); a place where like-minded folks pat each other on the back.

Constructing a thoughtful comment is a waste of time.

When I tell my friends/family that posting at Althouse is a waste of time, they will inevitably say "who the fuck is Ann Althouse?"; 3/23/11, 10:10 AM
Lukedog said...: @Fen,

"Pathetic. You should be the poster child for abortion"

So shitty, really.

This hardly compares to "hillbillies"; 3/23/11, 10:15 AM
The Dude said...: Lukebitch - we know you are full of shit - you just claimed that you have friends. You are a fucking delusional commie liar.

Didn't want to disappoint you or your "friends".; 3/23/11, 10:18 AM
kent said...: Shorter Lukedog: "I agree with the slightly less crusty sock."; 3/23/11, 10:18 AM
kent said...: ... and thus, the thread finally ended: in pitched, bloody battle between Jay Retread and Lukedog, over which of the two would ultimately stagger away from the conflict with hard-won bragging rights as "The Designated Alvin Greene of the Althouse Board."

Bards and skalds shall pen epics in commemoration of this day, I tell you.; 3/23/11, 11:44 AM
Synova said...: Oh come on now. Jay's comment was thoughtful and it would have been okay to actually engage what he said.

If nothing else it was an illustration of a worldview where no one thinks to ask what we ought to have *instead* of corporations. How would we organize business and deliver services if we get rid of these evil organizations?

The word itself is some sort of boogie man, which I think explains some of the hyperventilating over Citizen's United. If we don't have corporations representing the organization of people for business or other purposes, they'll be organized some other way, called something else. Treating a corporation as it's own entity is a legal fiction, not a reality. They serve a function that has to be met, one way or another.

If we do away with them, what do we replace them with?; 3/23/11, 2:36 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Thank you Synova.

I don't think corporations are evil. I don't think corporations are inherently bad or inherently good. As you say they are just a way of organizing our economy. They are a tool that can be used for good effect or bad. (Sort of like a gun.)

The question is should they be regulated and to what degree. Also, should we be concerned that too much political power and control over the economy is being concentrated in these few corporations and the small number of people who control them.

If I was a principled, small-government, main street conservative I would be terrified of the above.

Instead, most of Ann's faux conservative tag-alongs are happy to just parrot uncritically Rush Limbaugh's line.

That is why this is just another unserious blog. It never rises above the partisan bickering.; 3/23/11, 3:26 PM
Fen said...: Luke: So shitty, really. This hardly compares to "hillbillies"

Sure it does. And if you're going to bring the ad homs, don't cry like a little bitch when someone returns serve.

I'm beginning to think that Libtards can't see their own reflection.; 3/23/11, 3:36 PM
Fen said...: This blog is a place where differing opinions are immediately greeted with name calling and overt hostility.

You libtards come in here and throw stinkbombs and then complain about the smell.

And sorry Jay, you've been a jerk since the day you arrived here. Now all of a sudden, you want to be taken seriously? Doesn't work that way. Your rep is in the toilet. Along with the other 4 sock puppets of yours that Palladian sluethed out.

You want a civil discussion? Get a new sockpuppet and start fresh. Try to extend the same courtesy to others that you expect them to extend to you.; 3/23/11, 3:42 PM
kent said...: If I was a principled, small-government, main street conservative

Yes. If.; 3/23/11, 3:42 PM
Once written, twice... said...: I will acknowledge that I only use Althouse as a place to get my kicks in. I do the same at a lefty blog where everyone walks lock step. I know its sick but it lets off steam.

The Althouse Hillbillies here are not rugged individualists. They are more like the Star Trek Borg. And that is how Ann likes it.; 3/23/11, 3:50 PM
kent said...: Jay's comment was thoughtful

Retread's "thoughtful" comment:

"And corporations do dominate.
Besides Citizen United, among otherthings...
-corporations own and tightly control all major news organizations.
-they will be the dominate financiers of all elections after the Citizen United and the decimation of unions take effect.
-corporate control of the Internet will be completed when Republicans gut net neutrality.
-corporations are using to great effect trade agreements (like NAFTA) to place themselves beyond any regulation or control."

If the individual posting said farrago of curdled leftard codswallop is, oh, let us say, thirteen -- MAX, mind you -- then their adolescent combination V For Vendetta/The Matrix boogeyman fantasies of The Almighty KOCHcorp strangling us all in its infinite number of chthonic tentacles might, might just barely pass muster as being genuinely "thoughtful."

Even so much as a single day older, however... and: the poster in question is nothing more than just another fashionably resentful, basement dwelling, Cheetos-dusted loser, mushrooming in Mommy's basement and internalizing way, waaaaaay too much Rage Against the Machine.

Period. End of sentence. End of paragraph.; 3/23/11, 4:04 PM
Synova said...: "Also, should we be concerned that too much political power and control over the economy is being concentrated in these few corporations and the small number of people who control them.

If I was a principled, small-government, main street conservative I would be terrified of the above."

If you were a small-government, libertarian-ish, conservative, you'd understand that restrictions on essential freedoms... trickle down; You'd understand that I don't have to be restricted in order for you to experience liberty, that the freedom to speak doesn't require other voices to be silenced.

"Instead, most of Ann's faux conservative tag-alongs are happy to just parrot uncritically Rush Limbaugh's line."

Don't thank me anymore. If you really believe this statement is true, you are willfully blind.; 3/23/11, 8:56 PM
reader_iam said...: Ridgid [sic] ideological conformity is maintained here because that is how Ann Althouse likes it.

Yet somehow, some outliers slip through. Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

(And no, jayreatread, I'm NOT referring to YOU.); 3/24/11, 12:14 AM
reader_iam said...: I do think it's good to question corporations, by the way, like as one would anything else, in a whole number of ways for a whole host of reasons of different flavors. Why should anything be out of the range of questioning, much less beyond the pale?

And I often think it'd be useful, if not not always helpful (at least to preconceptions and narratives), to ponder instead the concept of "incorporation."

wv: legrom

One more "o" and it'd either be worth something or dangerous; 3/24/11, 12:24 AM
reader_iam said...: You'd understand that I don't have to be restricted in order for you to experience liberty

Yes, a 1000x yes!

The thing that cuts every which way, but causes any number of slipped stitches and twisted threads.; 3/24/11, 1:46 AM
kent said...: I will acknowledge that I only use Althouse as a place to get my kicks in.

SHORTER RETREAD: "I am a self-confessed troll."

Today's class assignment: attempt to reconcile said admission, somehow, with the self-serving snivel " [...] it is not worthwhile to try to have serious discussions on Althouse."

Also, while you're at it: accurately express pi as the ratio of two integers.; 3/24/11, 2:14 AM