When Tubbs met with protesters and other law enforcement leaders, including Dane County Sheriff Dave Mahoney, Madison Police Chief Noble Wray, and UW-Madison Police Chief Susan Riseling, the emphasis was on making sure demonstrations stayed peaceful and dialogue between police and demonstrators stayed open....
Throughout the protests, Tubbs said he focused on a goal of “zero arrests.” He even discouraged protesters from playing or singing music that could cause a “negative environment,” suggesting instead patriotic songs, spirituals such as “We Shall Overcome,” even Motown hits....
Things threatened to get ugly ... on March 9... But there was no violence and about 200 protesters were allowed to stay the night. The following morning, many left on their own. Others were carried out of the antechamber to the Assembly, where legislators were due to meet, amid chants of “Shame!”
“It was not a difficult decision,” Tubbs said. “We had to conduct government business.” Once again, there were no arrests....
March 30, 2011
In the Wisconsin protests, Capitol Police Chief Charles Tubbs sought voluntary compliance, zero arrests, and a positive environment.
The Wisconsin State Journal calls Tubbs "Chief of Peace":
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82 comments:
I guess as long as you let the protestors do what they want, sure - no arrests.
Over at legal insurrection, there is a link to help run ads in Wisconsin 's supreme court election.
I think he did a good job. There was no point in mass arrests, and even a few arrests become a rallying point and lead to more arrestable acts. It's easy to say that he was pro-protestor, but arrests were not in Governor Walker's interest either.
Certainly there were illegal acts, but police and prosecutors have discretion for a reason. Usually those reasons involve not making a bad situation worse, and allocating resources in a sensible way.
I think the Governor, the Madison police and most of the protestors performed quite admirably.
Can we cede Madison to Canada,please?
no violence only if you don't count the physical damage to gov't property caused by smashing windows and doors.
Yes, because clearly protestors with signs like "Walker = Hitler" and mobbing cornered legislators were only trying to create a "positive environment".
But community organizing is more fun than law enforcement, so let's have police do that instead.
w/v "balti" - what the city was left with once all the "more" was chased out of town.
There was no point in mass arrests, and even a few arrests become a rallying point and lead to more arrestable acts.
How will Chief Charles extend equal protection under the law to others?
There's a good reason we're a nation of laws and not men. It may have played out to his advantage this time, but at the cost of diminishing respect for the Rule of Law.
We now know that there are one set of rules for the Union supporters, another set for the rest of us.
Thats going to come back to bite the Chief.
Odd they would run this story as the Capitol Police keep handing out citations to citizens who exercise 1st amendment rights to protest Walker in the Rotunda, above ground floor.
And now we have a mound of illegal acts from the Governor and the Fitzpatricks, including violations of open meetings laws, refusal to comply with a restraining order, refusal to abide by the order to return the Capitol to access policed in place on Jan 28, using state troopers illegally to hunt down Wisconsin 14 (which emails show Senate Republicans knew was illegal. And more.
So the state "leadership" refuses to follow the law. How long before other people say "why should we?"
This captures the infantile "I'm somebody special" mentality of the protesters.
And the ties Tubbs established with protesters paid off. Noah Weatherton, 21, of Madison — who wore a red cross taped to his shirt to indicate his basic medical training — insisted he had an agreement with the chief that he could be the last to leave in case anyone was injured. State Patrol troopers started to take hold of his arms to carry him away.
“Chief Tubbs! Chief Tubbs! What is this?” Weatherton called out. “We’ve established a relationship. Please!”
Tubbs asked the troopers to hold off on moving him. After everyone else was cleared away, Weatherton walked out on his own.
Bryan C is an idiot:
Yes, because clearly protestors with signs like "Walker = Hitler" and mobbing cornered legislators were only trying to create a "positive environment".
Neither is illegal. And the comparison to Walker to Hitler were a tiny minority.
Haven't you guys gotten your daily talking points? You're supposed to attack the Judge's family and personal life. Classy!
When is the Meadia going interview this pacifist po-po?
I think that the Meadia should protest at police headquarters if he isn't granted an interview.
And, then garage can cover his protest, for the tubes.
P.S.
Maybe this po-po protest will need to be put on hold. Presumably the Meadia is still busy going to Madison businesses so he can get them to denounce the meadhouse denunciation letter.
Or, was that just an empty bluster, tossed out in the heat of the moment?
Or, maybe the meadia does mean what it says, such that the businesses have already been queried. Non-compliance was going to result in tube shaming. Why no shaming posts? If the targeted businesses were compliant, why no positive posts? [obviously this is a rhetorical question: anything that doesn't trash Madisionians is not "interesting," i.e. it is not bloggable.]
Republican Party of Dane County? Is that some kind of oxymoron?
Call me Mr. Tubbs
there is a link to help run ads in Wisconsin 's supreme court election.
Why do those ads always say Call Candidate X and tell them Y -- and then they don't give a phone number?
LOL @ They call me Mr. Tubbs
Alpha Liberal, where were you when the tea party protesters were denied access? Change your name to Alpha Hypocrit.
Alpha Hypocrit thinks death threats, illegal imprisonment by protesters and destruction of public property are not illegal, but are protected First Amendment Rights. LOL!
Even more, Alphalfa probably thinks collective bargaining for public employees is a human/constitutional right. That's the fairy tale, along with the lie that the protests were "nonviolent and peaceful."
Ah. The old "hug and release" treatment for lawbreakers.
Proven effective. Not!
That's the fairy tale, along with the lie that the protests were "nonviolent and peaceful."
The only people I'm aware of that spoke of planting troublemakers, or even shooting protesters live, or scheming false flag operations are conservatives. It must pain you that over 500,000 were in the streets or in the Capitol since this all started. I would say that it was pretty damn peaceful.
I would say that it was pretty damn peaceful.
"pretty damn" peaceful?
Is that like being "kinda pregnant"?
Even you don't believe the bullshit talking points you've been handed.
It's okay. It was a peaceful violent mob. Kinda like President Wee-Wee's humanitarian cruise missiles.
Alpha: were a tiny minority
At least you've upgraded from
"just one lone nut"
"okay maybe a few nuts"
"just a teensy-tiny minority"
garage mahal said...
I would say that it was pretty damn peaceful.
I'm sure you would say that.
The protests were not peaceful. There was intimidation, there were assaults, and there was property damage. The only people I'm aware of who did those things were the lefty pro union anti Walker protesters who were screaming like stuck pigs because they were losing statutory rights to collectively bargain (i.e., to go out on strike if they don't like what is offered to them) - statutory rights they never should have been given 52 years ago.
Meade
1. If it were as you described, you would have never brought your wife there numerous times. Even Ann admitted herself she never felt threatened at any of the rallies, correct?
2. If it were as you described, conservatives would not have contemplated planting troublemakers or staging fake assisination attempts.
I'm a bit surprised you have to resort to misrepresenting the events so badly on your wife's blog. Actually I'm not.
garage mahal said...
1. If it were as you described, you would have never brought your wife there numerous times. Even Ann admitted herself she never felt threatened at any of the rallies, correct?
Please cite her "admission." Also, as you may know, the mood of the mob fluctuated throughout the 4 main weeks of protest.
2. If it were as you described, conservatives would not have contemplated planting troublemakers or staging fake assisination attempts.
Whatever "contemplation" of planting troublemakers was rejected by Governor Walker.
I'm a bit surprised you have to resort to misrepresenting the events so badly on your wife's blog. Actually I'm not.
You are the one misrepresenting the events, garage. Why?
It must pain you that over 500,000 were in the streets or in the Capitol since this all started.
It must pain you to lose an election, thereby having to show your ass by fleeing the state, protesting, intimidating, vandalizing, demonizing and basically throwing a hissy fit over something Gaylord Nelson gave and the People took back.
It must pain you to feel what the Tea Party felt re: ObamaCare, albeit they legitimately, you not so much.
It must pain you.
Suppose the Dems win back a chamber. Will it still look like Democracy if the Repubs don't show up? If the REAL working families occupy the statehouse and not allow the government to work? If the president of M&I bank freezes the assets of every Dem contributor? If the grocery store charges you double for being a Dem?
Will that pain you?
Let's see how many conservative activists can smash doors and windows and barricade the capital while scrawling graffiti on the monuments.
It is not a coincidence that liberal bureaucrat's lenience facilitated lenience towards the protestor occupation of the capital and the anarchy in the halls of a congress the liberals wanted to be unable to vote on legislation. We need to put Tubbs in a prison cell, where conservatives would be if they acted like democrats get to act.
BFD. The chief decided not to "strictly" enforce the law as to make thins appear all kumbaya. Were they? Well sort of I suppose.
Whatever "contemplation" of planting troublemakers was rejected by Governor Walker.
Well that's a relief that Walker "thought about that", but later rejected it. Aren't you interested at all who in his circle "suggested" it? You think they should still hold office?
I'll let the record speak for itself how peaceful these protests have been. And law enforcement.
The only people I'm aware of that spoke of planting troublemakers, or even shooting protesters live, or scheming false flag operations are conservatives.
So Ian Murphy is a conservative now?
Not to mention, it's about the only thing you speak of nowadays.
That's right, Meade, there was violence obvious even from just seeing the pictures.
They didn't burn down the capitol or kill anyone, so I guess the media consider that "mostly peaceful" in their biased parlance.
I wonder if the Chief would be so accommodating if it were a tea party protest?
Meade-
I have attended the protests probably 20 times in the last month.
You are full of it. You must know that people that live in Madison and have attended the protests know you are full of it. I don't know why you are doing this.
By they way, I was at the Planned Parenthood rally watching you stalk Rep. Hulsey. I've gotta say, you looked completely insane.
Not to mention, it's about the only thing you speak of nowadays
I went to a Tea Party last year in Madison. I told the truth what I saw. [here on this blog] Would just like that honesty to be returned so people can be accurately informed to what's going on.
"you looked completely insane."
No, that's just the mistaken interpretation of an (il)liberal. Meadia is a con-lib/lib-con/(un-il)lib. The problem is w/ everybody else, the Meadia is the definition of rational wisdom.
If you heretics have any doubts, the Meadia and his tube-disciples will enthusiastically reiterate the limitless virtue of the Meadia crusade.
BTW, has the flock tithed to Meadehouse this week?
pbandJ-
Have you been to the protests? were you at the Planned Parenthood Rally?
How is it that leftards who have no shame in anything they do are allowed to yell the word at the top of their lungs against those they oppose? I guess hypocrisy is part of the DNA of a leftard too.
Meade-I'm calling you out. You are a liar. The protests were not violent. Among the hundreds of thousands of people there were thousands of children and babies. You think parents are putting their kids in danger?
No arrests. No injuries. No tear gas. Not only has Chief Tubbs thanked everyone on both sides for being peaceful, so too has the Dane County Sheriff and the Chief of Madison Police.
Of your thousands of hours of videos and pictures, show me the recordings of violence. Yelling "shame" is not violence, and neither is taping signs to the walls. Heated arguments are not violence. Ask Ann to take a break from taking many breaks, annd talk to you a little about the First Amendment.
Unless you can put up, it is time to shut up. Unlike almost all of your true believers, I have been here every day and have seen what is actually going on. You also know that you are not telling the truth, and that you are picking and choosing very small portions of the circumstances and exaggerating them. You know it. I know it. And anyone else who has been here knows it.
For the 5th time, I challenge you to show random shots of the crowds and count all the Hitler signs. Anybody? [crickets]. Yeah. I thought so.
The anarchists need better friends, they must be fuming. Talk about your discrimination. The next G-8 Summit should be held in Madison.
Certainly there were illegal acts, but police and prosecutors have discretion for a reason. Usually those reasons involve not making a bad situation worse, and allocating resources in a sensible way.
Either we are a nation of laws, or it's anarchy. There is no in between. What message does it send to the kids?
Basically WI are a bunch of law-breakers and criminals, THAT's the message I got.
Luke,
No, I'm not in WI.
But, I feel that I can mock Meade from afar. The slivers that I see posted on this blog are always over-hyped by Meadehouse.
The commentary from Meadhouse is pushing a "chaos" and "mob" meme, but their own images don't support this hyperbolic exasperation.
Firstly, if the Meadehouse Chronicles really are the worst of the worst, and this is the result of the anti-walker folks: in perspective this stuff amounts to an outlier fringe relative to the vast majority of anti-walker folks who weren't chaotic mobsters. So, Meadia is manipulating us, by misrepresenting reality.
But, why assume that this stuff was even done by anti-walker folks. By Althouse's TPer standard (where nothing is true unless it's caught on tape), there's no justification for assuming that all of the Meadehouse images are the result of the anti-walker protesters.
Did we see an anti-walker person break a door? Did we see an anti-walker person write on Meadia's bronze best friend? Did we see an anti-walker person use handcuffs (that were later removed by police, who had the key) on a door? By Althouse's TPer standard these things could have been done by random punk kids, or pro-walker folks, or the police (in the case of the cuffs). But Meadia isn't bothered w/ the burden of consistency--that would dilute the New Media Message.
P.S.
I loved it when Meadia called out a teacher who was exagerating how oppresive these chages would be for him. I wonder how far that conversation was from the point where Meadia had earlier complained to someone that Meadia's American dream was to some day live in freedom.
That was the best.
You don't need to live in WI to recognize and call attention to the joke known as the Meadia.
It should have been nonviolent. Who are they gonna get violent with? Everyone there was on the same side. All union.
pbandJ-
Awesome.
pbAndj
How many people were chasing and harassing the Republicans in the bus video? Scores certainly, probably more. How many stormed the Capitol the night of the most violent occupation and vandalism? Certainly hundreds. And thousands more cheered them on, just like you continue to do. Deal with it.
Probably very wise. It prevented the creation of martyrs being hauled off to jail on the evening news.
Probably very wise. It prevented the creation of martyrs being hauled off to jail on the evening news.
So let law-breakers flaunt the law in the name of political expediency. Nice society we've created where no one respects the law.
pbAndj said...
I loved it when Meadia called out a teacher who was exagerating how oppresive these chages would be for him. I wonder how far that conversation was from the point where Meadia had earlier complained to someone that Meadia's American dream was to some day live in freedom.
This from someone accusing me of intentional inaccuracy and manipulation. Go back and look at that post, pb. The question was "What is your American Dream." I said, "to live in freedom." I didn't say "some day." To me, the American Dream means living in freedom. If your American Dream is to some day have something you don't have now, that's fine for you - say so.
But please don't misconstrue what I've said.
Geez, the cockroaches are really pissed at Meade today for spotlighting them.
lawyerpalooza,
I've reported what I've seen and heard at the protests. They have not been peaceful and I am not a liar. Repair to property damage and the cost of the police presence which kept the mob from getting further out of hand will end up costing Wisconsin taxpayers over 5 million dollars.
Ask Brett Hulsey to characterize for you the mood and nature of the mob that closed in on and cornered Sen. Grothman.
You guys clearly have your own special protester definition of "peaceful" or else some kind of super protester power of selective memory. Or even, perhaps, you weren't really there after all.
Lukedog said...
"By they way, I was at the Planned Parenthood rally watching you stalk Rep. Hulsey. I've gotta say, you looked completely insane."
Oh was that you, Lukedog? I might have mistaken you for Jim "We will f*ck you up" Shankman. Are you two pals?
By the way, I was talking to a Madison mom today who told me her second-grader's teacher had the class making We-Hate-Governor Walker posters in school the other day. Maybe garage's kid will be lucky enough to get that same teacher next year.
"To me, the American Dream means living in freedom.
Meade,
Your statement can clearly be interpreted as you have done here, or as I have noted. I fully accept that your comments were meant to be a dream fulfilled, rather than a dream for the future. I can't read your mind, but I completely accept your fuller explanation.
I'm sure you can understand how Americans dreaming of freedom have a history that predate your own REM experience. And, these dream were for unfulfilled freedom. When MLK had an American dream for freedom, he wasn't suggesting that his dream had already been fulfilled. So, it was not absurd for me to consider that your aping MLK's message also dittoed his temporal meaning.
BTW, isn't it interesting that you had the same dream as minorities who had been suffering because of race or gender discrimination? When was the last time males in your family didn't have "your" American dream fulfilled?
Meade-
I am a woman and I don't know Jim Shankman.
Seriously, you're not being honest here. Please stop it.
When you approached Hulsey at the rally it was completely ridiculous; it actually would have made sense if your particular beef with him would have had something to do with Planned Parenthood.
Instead you harassed him, got in people's faces and made a fool out of yourself to ask him about the budget?
Absolutely painful to watch.
They have not been peaceful and I am not a liar.
Yet you took your wife to the protests numerous times endangering her safety? Either you're misrepesenting the protests, or you think taking your wife to unpeaceful protests is a good idea. I tend to believe you thought there was nothing to worry about taking your wife to the protests - but think there was real value to be had misrepresting them.
Meade-
The 2nd graders with the "hate-Walker posters"? What school is this?
I have 2 kids, one in elementary school here in Madison. I would like to follow up on this. Most of my friends have young children too. Some go to Emerson, some Lakeview, Mendota, Orchard, kind of all over Madison, really.
Let me know the details and I will follow up. That is inappropriate for sure.
You guys clearly have your own special protester definition of "peaceful" or else some kind of super protester power of selective memory.
Bingo.
Yes the protests were peaceful. Being there was like sitting in a flower covered meadow on a warm summer day, next to a cool babbling brook. Oh, look there is a wood nymph strumming a harp! Yes, it was oh so very peaceful.
Meade says:
"The protests were not peaceful. There was intimidation, there were assaults, and there was property damage. The only people I'm aware of who did those things were the lefty pro union anti Walker protesters who were screaming like stuck pigs because they were losing statutory rights to collectively bargain (i.e., to go out on strike if they don't like what is offered to them) - statutory rights they never should have been given 52 years ago."
I can confirm too, as has Meade, that the attitude and actions of the union thugs had been not incredibly pacifist.
The rhetoric coming from my TA union here in Madison had been incendiary with plenty of rally cries to occupy the capital and other stupid shit.
Now that the pit bull risks having its testicles snipped (as well as some funding), its rhetoric seems more indecisive.
I can confirm too, as has Meade, that the attitude and actions of the union thugs had been not incredibly pacifist.
I bet you can't confirm shit. When were you there? Any pics? I was there about 10-12 times. I took a lot of pics. You have anything?
Scurry away little roaches! Scurry!
*squish*
garage says:
"I bet you can't confirm shit. When were you there? Any pics? I was there about 10-12 times. I took a lot of pics. You have anything?"
1) I live in Madison.
2) I am a TA at the University of Wisconsin
3) I have a long chain of bullshit TAA Union e-mails in my account which I saved just in case people like yourself don't believe the militant rhetoric of the punks you cherish dearly
4) I've been to the capitol too, not as religiously as you, but at least 6 times.
Did I have a camera on me, no. There is plenty of video on this blog and on Youtube proving the "civility" of the protesters.
to garage:
And by the way, Meade has been at the Capitol twice as many times as you.
Fen wants to "squish" others over a difference of opinion? Seems like Meade's supporters & fans are not peaceful, but rather just a bunch of thugs who want to intimidate others.
(That is how this game is played, right?) *Rolls eyes*
Just to clear things up, could someone who beleives these protests were violent please give an example or three of any public protest that they consider to be "peaceful"? I'm curious to see what...if anything...would qualify.
Yeah, everything was swell. What are a few death threats and property damage when social justice is at stake?
Lukedog said...
Meade- I am a woman
Well of course you are.
Instead you harassed him, got in people's faces and made a fool out of yourself to ask him about the budget?
I have never harassed anyone in my entire life except for my two brothers and that was 50 years ago. And the only time I have ever been in anyone's face was once, ten years ago, when a guy twice my size let his dog attack my labrador retriever.
The only time I remember asking Brett Hulsey about the budget was two days ago at a meeting in his office. So, Lukedog, woman, you must've been tripping last Friday at the Planned Parenthood public demonstration.
Let me know the details and I will follow up. That is inappropriate for sure.
Apologize for calling me "full of it" and I will consider letting you know the details. But I agree - totally inappropriate. Maybe even criminal.
LMAO! What kind of idiots think that property damage, death threats, false imprisonment is peaceful? Those actions are documented. Denial is not just a river in Africa.
Meade- You are a liar, and you know it. I can't post my hundreds of pictures and dozen videos here, but you can. I have dozens of videos and pictures of police standing in large groups with literally nothing to do, because it was peaceful. You know that too, don't you. I have friends who are Madison police officers and who tell me how cool it was to be thanked by thousands of peaceful protesters. But you are well aware of that if you have actually been down here.
I have been here every day, and I'm looking at the capitol right now from my office window. Put down your pancakes and I will describe for you the cars and people here. Right now there is a red truck with two ladders (one grey, one yellow) parked on teh square.
You are a liar, pure and simple. And pathetic.
I love the smell of lawyerpalooza desperation in the morning. It's like grade A maple syrup on my steaming hot buckwheat pancake. Medium amber.
So tell us, Lawya, do you accept that there were at least hundreds of protesters breaking the law, being riotous and generally using threats and intimidation to try to get their way? I mean directly and personally, like those who stormed the Capitol, chased the lawmakers, bumrushed the cops, did physical damage to the building and slipped death threats under doors. I don't care about what % it is, do you at least grant it wasn't "none", "one" or "a few"? If not, then you're unwilling to discuss the issue honestly and should probably just shut your yap.
No no. Whatever you do, lawyerpaloozer, please do NOT shut your yap.
Meade-
"By the way, I was talking to a Madison mom today who told me her second-grader's teacher had the class making We-Hate-Governor Walker posters in school the other day."
Looking forward to you following up on this.
"I love the smell of lawyerpalooza desperation in the morning. It's like grade A maple syrup on my steaming hot buckwheat pancake. Medium amber."
Oh Meade, my unemployed friend, you could at least take the time to come up with a legitimate response to a simple question. It is your desperation that is showing, becaue I have called you out for what you are, and you have no defense. Where are the videos, where are the pictures of the violent mobs? Put up or shut up. Pathetic.
Lukedog said...
"Looking forward to you following up on this."
And I'm looking forward to your apology to me, Lukedog woman.
Here's an idea: Do your own citizen journalism. You have a child in first grade, right? Stop in at his school. Talk to the second grade teachers. Without revealing that you find the idea of schoolchildren being encouraged by their teachers to participate in the "inappropriate" behavior of disrespecting and making ad hominem attacks against the democratically elected state governor, ask the teachers what sorts of pro-public employee union activities they've been leading their pupils in.
Because of the Madison lefty cocoon that maintains a safe secure happy place - for anyone who isn't a conservative, Republican, or proponent of limited government - the teachers will predictably tell you, with pride, all about the anti Walker projects they've been leading their kids through.
Do what I've been doing in observing and reporting on the Capitol protests - don't lie or misrepresent yourself - just don't express your own opinions and philosophy. People will assume you are one of them and they will talk talk talk.
Report back to us.
@ Lukedog: Do not expect Meade to follow up on this absolute lie. He prefers to sling bullshit like that to get people worked up, and then retreats without any attempt to prove up his assertions.
Keep defending your fellow nefarious protesters, lawerpaloozer. Dig dig dig. And if, in all your pro-public unions fervor, your shovel breaks, let me know. I'll hand you down a new one.
With pleasure.
Meade-
I volunteer at my child's school. I am friends with many other moms with children at schools in Madison.
Of course I know what's going on in Madison Public Schools better than you do.
That's been my point here. You won't be following up on this because it isn't true. If it were you would have already followed up on it. That's just the kind of juicy tidbit that can get you on Fox (midday).
You are full of it.
Lukedog: Exactly which details are you looking for?
And why don't you gather the information for yourself and report back to us the way I suggested?
The truth might hurt but, as I'm sure you've heard, it can also set you free.
Meade-
Um, the school, the teacher. Was it free-art time or was it instructed. Was it "write a protest sign" was it "write an I hate Walker sign" Was it "write something you believe in on a poster"
You know, details, any details about this allegation.
As I said, I am friends with many other moms whose children attend a variety of schools in the MMSD. I haven't heard anything about this or anything like this. And, you don't have the evidence to support it.
Surely, you must know if you make an allegation like this, some people may ask you to substantiate it?
"Surely, you must know if you make an allegation like this, some people may ask you to substantiate it? "
I didn't allege anything. I reported what my source told me. Make of it what you wish.
Surely, a woman like you who protects her identity by using a pseudonym can appreciate that I will not publish any details that can be used to identify my source or her child.
Lukedog, again, do your own investigation. And be honest.
Meade, you have once again demonstrated how pathetic you are. You think what you are doing is some form of "journalism?"
You allege violence and claim you have been there every day with video and camera. Then show it. If you don;t have it, it is because it did not happen and you are a liar.
You allege second grade teacher requiring children to create Anti-Walker signs? Then follow it up. Again, unlike you, I have children in the Madison school system. I know for certain this is not happening, but it is impossible to prove a negative, and should be very easy for you to prove it happened. Go snap a picture, or identify the school. You won;t and you can't because you are, in fact, a liar.
Pathetic.
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