The mass scene in the rotunda tonight:
AND: Protesters stream into the building, and some of the doors are handcuffed shut:
Here they come:
March 9, 2011
Chaos at the Wisconsin Capitol tonight.
Meade returns with photos of people entering, as the state troopers stand by:
The mass scene in the rotunda tonight:
AND: Protesters stream into the building, and some of the doors are handcuffed shut:
Here they come:
The mass scene in the rotunda tonight:
AND: Protesters stream into the building, and some of the doors are handcuffed shut:
Here they come:
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"Chaos"
My personal favorite: The person in the middle of the floor holding the green sign that says:
"Its about Freedom"
So, to these people, "freedom" means getting the taxpayer to pay for as much as possible.
Simply amazing.
Yawn... they lost. They should go home and try again next election. I don't think they really want to deal with the consequences of continuing with this charade.
Tiger Blood Meade keeps us coming back for more ;)
Maybe the State Assembly will erect a double-wide with a dome in time to hold tomorrow's session since the Capitol building has been occupied by rioters showing us what Democracy looks like.
Not a mature person in the whole protesting group. Lemmings...all of them...they could not survive in the private sector.d
Union support is very white.
Hey Ann... can you do me a favor and tell Meade to watch out for the mob. He could get trampled on in there. That scene can't be completely safe.
I wish him well, but a little bit of due diligence and situational awareness can save a life in there.
And didn't they find live ammo on the site not a few days ago?
same old tired crowd of bored ollege kids
Once the 14 Dem Senators show up, can they just vote on the original bill again? (i mean just to rub it in a little)
My G*d, they're all children.
"Some protesters remained inside the Capitol building a couple hours after the vote"
What CNN is saying at 9:38
This old Capitol Building could be rented out as a perfect Roller Derby track or an Octagon Ultimate Fighting cage. Waste not, want not.
PbAndj seems to be dropping in on various threads, with perpetually hurt feelings. Which make tonight's victory even sweeter.
I see white people.
Doesn't the state of Wisconsin employ any non-whites?
The cops are in on it. I hope they all get fired.
The red "Solidarity" t-shirt is fraught with irony.
Moron.
Most of these look like students to me.
Talk about the privileged supporting the privileged class.
At the same time, what a grand country we live in that people can gather and voice their opinion. I pray it stays peaceful and orderly and everyone gets their emotion out of their system.
What's funny is that this whole day is what Democracy looks like. People of massively different opinions and different goals expressing their voices, and votes.
It's messy. It's sometimes even loud. But I like this country of ours, because we can be free to be really angry at each other and know that everything, ultimately, is going to keep on running relatively smoothly.
That kid appears to be in shock... wandering aimless without direction.
I'm trying to imagine the headlines -- and mass arrests -- if the Tea Party had reacted this way to Obamacare.
"That kid appears to be in shock... wandering aimless without direction."
aka CHAOS!!!!11!!!!1!!!
Is there a factory in the Madison Metro area that produces a never ending supply of unattractive, smelly, malcontent, angry white people? Find that factory, destroy it and these protests end.
Will someone please escort these goons to the nearest Ash Bin of History.
When do the mattresses get to the capitol
This is "Wisconsin Chaos" looks pretty orderly compared to "California Chaos".
It's hard to tell chaos from a still photo, but that just looks crowded to me.
The police in the photos look relaxed to me -- and if they're not on edge, I'll suggest that this is a typical Wisconsin crowd.
Wow, all those white people. Those protesters are whiter than the sheets at a KKK rally.
The cops are in on it. I hope they all get fired.
Then who will protect AA's tagalong reporting his daily chaos meme?
It is Chaos?..
The Capitol is not supposed to be open.. people are not being checked.. there is not enough men power should an incident ensue.
But of course as long as the unions continue to engorge at the public troff.. who care what may happen to anybody there?
Union support is very white.
It is Wisconsin. Their local Black Panther Party is probably 75% white.
I'm trying to imagine the headlines -- and mass arrests -- if the Tea Party had reacted this way to Obamacare.
Why would a bunch of Tea Party folks descend on the Wisconsin Capitol to protest a Federal Law?
Then who will protect AA's tagalong reporting his daily chaos meme?
I'm betting he owns a gun. :)
Now, it's the state troopers who have no idea whom to call when they need assistance?
Where did all these people come from? Did they have buses bring them? Where were the collection points?
Is this like a "flash mob?" You just use your cell phone?
Do those going in know about the DRUMMING?
Why would a bunch of Tea Party folks descend on the Wisconsin Capitol to protest a Federal Law?
... the element of surprise!
"It is Wisconsin. Their local Black Panther Party is probably 75% white."
That is complete bullshit. We're only 60% white.
Why would a bunch of Tea Party folks descend on the Wisconsin Capitol to protest a Federal Law?
HA HA SEE BECAUSE
The protesters are so white they look like the NPR board of directors.
I really don't understand why the Governor didn't order the Wisconsin State Patrol to open fire on these people who care about a bill!!
I thought he was tough - at a minimum he should have started some beat downs and firehosing.
When is AA going to analyze what appears to be a clear open meetings violation? Given her sensitivity to even the most miniscule of arguable civil rights violations, like, for example being forced to ask a question about having to wait in line and then delayed for 5 seconds to enter a public building, she ought to be all over this open records violation.
Wow, all those white people. Those protesters are whiter than the sheets at a KKK rally.
lol..
Fire with fire!! F*.^ the new civility!
I'm pumped up tonight!
I really didn't think Walker had in him!
Son of a gun stuck to his guns.
I'm betting he owns a gun. :)
He probably does, but I'm betting he wouldn't be foolish enough to take it w/him as he's filming his "chaos". But we're talking about AA's tagalong, so I be might be mistaken ...
MadMan cracks me up with his "typical Wisconsin" running bit. Wasn't there a deathly stampede after a football game there a few years ago?
Come on.
ALH said:
"Is there a factory in the Madison Metro area that produces a never ending supply of unattractive, smelly, malcontent, angry white people? Find that factory, destroy it and these protests end."
Sure explains why Titus left WI.
I actually had a guy on Twitter send me this:
"Enjoy your weekends, paid vacations, and health care benefits. Someone in a union fought for them. You're welcome."
The kicker? The guy works as in an executive position at the Medical College of Wisconsin.
The complete idiocy of some of these people is astounding.
The Madison protesters are so white, they aren't even supposed to occur until after Memorial Day.
Walker is going to be the keynote speaker at the GOP convention..
I just hope he doesn't steal all the candidates thunder.
There are few sights more pleasing than radical liberals, socialists, union thugs and anarchists who have been defeated all in one place, whining and sobbing through the night.
Can't wait to hear Rush tomorrow.
White Riot
White riot - I wanna riot
White riot - a riot of my own
White riot - I wanna riot
White riot - a riot of my own
Black people gotta lot a problems
But they don't mind throwing a brick
White people go to school
Where they teach you how to be thick
An' everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
An' nobody wants
To go to jail!
All the power's in the hands
Of people rich enough to buy it
While we walk the street
Too chicken to even try it
Everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
Nobody wants
To go to jail!
Are you taking over
or are you taking orders?
Are you going backwards
Or are you going forwards?
Can they move the capitol? Or at least meet somewhere else? It wouldn't be hard to call this an insurrection.
This is what Democracy looks like!
Lem -
i'm still hoping Christie runs. When he talks in front of town hall type groups he seems like he owns the room. Straight talker who isn't afraid to call "bullshit" on others.
Jason:
The librul cocktail party circuit has been working overtime churning out talking points [hope they are getting paid time & a half].
Have you heard this one? "the average teacher is paid less than $1 per hour per student which is less than a babysitter is paid."
It's important to note that before the divorce, shiloh called his wife, "the tagalong." Later, he flourished by moving into a van by the river.
Jesse Jackson is coming back!!!! Hide your kids and young daughters.
5 pm rally tomorrow at the Milwaukee County Courthouse featuring the biggest race-baiter himself.
Why would a bunch of Tea Party folks descend on the Wisconsin Capitol to protest a Federal Law?
I don't know. All I see is a bunch of ridiculously white people protesting at a government building. So, it's gotta be those teabagging racists.
Leftards in their peak.
Pffft. Pikers. You call this Chaos? This is nothing compared to how we totally stormed tbe capitol building in DC and took it over when Obamacare was forced on us. We totally trashed that place with our angry chaos.
Lem -
i'm still hoping Christie runs.
Word is Christie is caving here in NJ.
I grew up in Wisconsin, and my family still lives there. Reading the hateful comments on this blog, I can't imagine that the same is true of the vast majority of you. It saddens me that you all think it's okay to call great people (like my teacher brother) "union thugs" and the like. I think you are disgusting people, especially Ann, who dedicates her time to whipping you all into a frenzy and feigning objectivity for her own personal gain, and Meade, the Tea Party's top cop and the new master of Ann's political consciousness.
White people locking government house doors! It's Bull Connor. These racist teabaggers! The photos prove it.
Who the hell handcuffed the doors?
That's actually a fire hazard and/or fire code violation especially with the capacity of the Capitol at it's maximum.
(-see the video tree hugging sister linked to.)
Really stupid.
Who the hell handcuffed the doors?
CAIR.
Hide your kids and young daughters.
You mean "hide your wife, hide your kids"?
I can smell them from here...
wv: preglog
Madawaskan wrote: Who the hell handcuffed the doors?
My question too. I can't blame the police for standing by. Refusing to escalate is probably the best response (so long as it works and some jackass doesn't escalate on his own).
But the handcuff thing is really odd. Are they police handcuffs? Are those particular doors special in some way? Are they outside doors, or did they handcuffed to prevent further access into some parts of the building?
Anyway, thank God it is the 21st century and the angry villagers don't carry torches.
He probably does, but I'm betting he wouldn't be foolish enough to take it w/him as he's filming his "chaos".
If, per your scenario, there are no cops around, he'd be dumb not to take it.
Fortunately your scenario is silly. The cops aren't entirely comprised of union thugs.
Jesse Jackson is coming back!
Well, at least he's staying out of Dane County this time around.
What's a way to combine the words irrelevant and Reverend?
CAIR
Well I think I'm a Shaaaaark was saying in another thread that it was being reported that the damn protesters did it.
Winning-
Winning the Future.
Wasn't there a deathly stampede after a football game there a few years ago?
But it was orderly, and the tramplers were so nice. It was a typical Wisconsin stampede.
CAIR
Well I think I'm a Shaaaaark was saying in another thread that it was being reported that the damn protesters did it.
Winning-
Winning the Future.
God, those people look bored.
Why do i think they're there only because the shop steward called their name, not unlike being picked for jury duty?
shiloh said...
The cops are in on it. I hope they all get fired.
Then who will protect AA's tagalong reporting his daily chaos meme?
A week ago they were ready to toss him in the clink, moron. Didn't you see the video? Might want to check stuff like that before you head out from Kos with your script.
Meade flies solo.
(I keep thinking about what Chennault had to say about that)
That is complete bullshit. We're only 60% white.
Is that 6 whites and 4 blacks? Or is that percentage found all in one
PS--reports are that the handcuffs have been removed...
But the handcuff thing is really odd. Are they police handcuffs?
Well they're not upholstered in silk, so all I can tell you is they're not mine.
Who the hell handcuffed the doors?
Joey Zaza's henchman, obviously.
WV: equous. (I saw that play!)
Meanwhile, Wisconsin state senator Scott Fitzgerald admits that the goal was to break the unions so that the Democrats lose in 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLJdijPEBJE
What's a way to combine the words irrelevant and Reverend?
I, uh... can't think of anything.
Well I think I'm a Shaaaaark was saying in another thread that it was being reported that the damn protesters did it.
Meade would know. Hey Meade!
And are they exterior doors or interior doors?
If you want to see what's actually happening right now, watch the live feed from inside the capitol. don't take someone's opinion at face value, watch it and decide for yourself. http://tinyurl.com/4bv3utx
Meanwhile, Wisconsin state senator Scott Fitzgerald admits that the goal was to break the unions so that the Democrats lose in 2012:
1. Break unions
2. ...
3. VICTORY!
It isn't widely known, but the Republican Party actually won every single election before public unions were legalized in the 50s and 60s. True story.
FDR? Totally rethuglican. They just don't admit it because they're embarassed by his wheelchair. Republicans are, as roesch-voltaire pointed out, all about beating down the cripples.
I, uh... can't think of anything.
Now, reverend and irreverent, on the other hand...
Calypso
Thanks because that's flirting with Darwin.
-I don't care who did it the cops and/or the protesters...
James:
Really? Well, I guess that can only be true if it is a fact that unions take money from taxpayers and siphon it to Democratic politicians who vote in sweet deals for them...and that sounds so unethical..surely they would not do such a thing.
The handcuffed doors were the exterior doors leading to King St. A plainclothes cop removed them. (All according to Journal Sentinel)
1. Break unions
2. ...
3. VICTORY!
In another thread, we were assured that restrictions on collective bargaining was very unpopular in Wisconsin.
Which is it? I guess whichever makes you emote better in the moment.
the doors are locked from the inside?
Someone start a fire! (One can hope, can't one?)
Pre printed signs now appearing:
COPS FOR LABOR
What the hell is with the fucking drumming?
I think this is a live stream, cited as such from a Hot Air item. Not sure cause it was jumping from one part of the capitol to the other. But a stream in any case.
1. Break unions
2. ...
3. VICTORY!
It isn't widely known, but the Republican Party actually won every single election before public unions were legalized in the 50s and 60s. True story.
FDR? Totally rethuglican. They just don't admit it because they're embarassed by his wheelchair. Republicans are, as roesch-voltaire pointed out, all about beating down the cripples.
This doesn't adequately respond to the video. Is it not somewhat troubling that Scott Fitzgerald is more than happy to admit that this legislation isn't based on a desire to simply reduce the state's deficit -- but rather to politically damage the other team under the guise of reducing the deficit?
The events at the Capitol tonight will go a long way in showing that the 2 hour meeting notice was reasonable to avoid a riot.
the guise of reducing the deficit
Given that the deficit will be reduced, your use of the word guise is...interesting.
@MisterBuddwing:
I saw that movie! "Joey [BANGBANG] Zaza!!!"
Okay, violent imagery is inappropriate in a heated time like this. But I just have to give my love to "The Godfather Part III".
Hope the protesters aren't bringing in oranges.
"Leave the Kids Alone."
There is no point in spilling blood, cracking heads or hauling them limp off to jail.
Let them trash the place if they feel they must.
Let the police fail to intervene.
Show up every day to conduct the people's business.
If it can't be done inside, do it on the steps of the capitol.
If they interfere on the steps, find another place. Publicize the time and location well in advance.
If the opponents want to hold their breath and turn blue, let them. Let them be a mob. Do not use violence against them, even moderate force. Respond only to their violence, if they turn that way. Let them be a mob. Do not let them be martyrs. They will fail if allowed to show their true colors.
Americans do not like mob rule. That is all these protestors have to offer. Do not allow them to act as victims, as they are not. They want to be a mob? Let them be one.
Christopher
Thanks for the link.
Really? Well, I guess that can only be true if it is a fact that unions take money from taxpayers and siphon it to Democratic politicians who vote in sweet deals for them...and that sounds so unethical..surely they would not do such a thing.
Yes, those Democratic politicians receive, on average, a whopping 18% of their campaign donations from unions: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117078618.html
I'm watching the live feed and the question that comes up for me is basic: Are there enough bathroom facilities and TP to accommodate that large a crowd through the night? Honestly, this is starting to look more like a Kotex moment in the making.
wv. cessar...render unto cesser
Before the divorce, shiloh's wife referred to him as "my Dingleberry".
[Evidently that's what his mother called him, too. How odd.]
...and the West High kids are walking out tomorrow morning.
That bottom picture looks like angry lesbians (is there any other kind? AND, why are ALL of them public workers? But I digress).
a whopping 18% of their campaign donations from unions
Therefore, only 82 percent of their funding is not from the public coffers.
Good to know, dude. This arguing thing: are you new to it?
Yeah, James. And the SEIU and AFSCME don't want to keep the money coming to get a win for the dems in 2012.
Please
Is there just nothing at all to do in Wisconsin? It think ya'll are just suffering from some vitamin D deficiencies that are causing mass hysteria. It's probably because of the tanning bed tax. I prescribe a vacation to someplace sunny and warm stat. The doctor has spoken.
"Democratic politicians receive, on average, a whopping 18% of their campaign donations from unions..."
so the Republicans are all about levelling the playing field, then.
Yes, those Democratic politicians receive, on average, a whopping 18% of their campaign donations from unions
Is that supposed to be a rebuttal? Because I have to tell you, 18% is pretty damned significant. It's actually higher than I suspected, and what I suspected would have been too frickin' much.
"Are there enough bathroom facilities and TP to accommodate that large a crowd through the night?"
Of course not.
But they will being the stuff in.
Plus why do you think they have all those extra t shirts?
The events at the Capitol tonight will go a long way in showing that the 2 hour meeting notice was reasonable to avoid a riot.
If it's reasonable, but it breaks the law, is it still reasonable?
Whether or not it breaks -- has broken -- the law is an interesting question/debate. IANAL
Yes, those Democratic politicians receive, on average, a whopping 18% of their campaign donations from unions: http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/117078618.html
That's a higher percentage than the amount the Koch brothers donated to Walker.
"This doesn't adequately respond to the video. Is it not somewhat troubling that Scott Fitzgerald is more than happy to admit that this legislation isn't based on a desire to simply reduce the state's deficit -- but rather to politically damage the other team under the guise of reducing the deficit?"
He didn't admit anything, but pointed out that if the unions are deprived of some dues, it'll be advantageous for the Republicans. Conversely, if the union holds onto the all of the dues, it will be advantageous for the Democrats. Would you happen to know the amount spent by both parties in Wisconsin on the '08 election?
With the University and a huge local population of government related employees, this could go on for a long, long time.
Unless someone shows up with some Ivory soap, deodorant and a few hundred bottles of Lysol. (It is the protester's kryptonite)
So when a duly and democratically elected Congress passes a law you don't like, you overtake the legislative building? Again. And you think it's going to play outside of your little cliques? Really?
@James,
Yes, those Democratic politicians receive, on average, a whopping 18% of their campaign donations from unions:
You left out the sentence:
In truth, the figure may be even higher, but candidates don't have to identify the occupations of those giving $100 or less.
That stream I posted is edited, so not exactly live. But still quite a look inside.
Some AFSCME firefighter boss just described the vote a "criminal" act, said the Republicans aren't playing by the rules (!), supports a general strike and loves Michael Moore's idea of having high school students walk out tomorrow. Snow day without the snow!
@Timothy -- The comments at Boing Boing are interesting, to say the least.
Take this one, for example:
So. . . what's the endgame here? Like, you can protest all you want, but if the government is impervious to shame or public pressure, what do you actually get?
I'm assuming the teacher's union isn't quite ready to stage a coup, so. . . so what do the protests accomplish? Even if you could get 100% of the public (excluding elected officials) on your side, what can you do if your government decides that it cares more about passing the laws it likes than about getting re-elected?
Is there actually anything the protesters can do if they feel their elected representatives aren't representing them? Other than to suck it up and wait for four years?
(my emphasis -- first for humor, second for schadenfreude, third for the main point)
Word on the street is that the Assembly will be voting at 11 AM tomorrow.
Is that Paul Soglin talking about Alinsky tactics right now on Christopher' link?
This like Viagra for him.
this is not egypt.. this is the US..
Duh
more video here...
http://www.dane101.com/current/2011/03/09/video_crowd_rushing_wisconsin_capitol_doors
Doesn't look like the troopers were entirely happy, more like they just got to the opened door too late.
Therefore, only 82 percent of their funding is not from the public coffers.
Good to know, dude. This arguing thing: are you new to it?
Not uncoincidentally, union members accounted for 14.2% of wage and salary workers in Wisconsin in 2010: http://www.bls.gov/ro5/unionwi.htm
I fail to see how their funding is "from the public coffers": it's money that we paid people for their work -- unless you're implying that any money paid out to people who happen to work for government entities doesn't really belong to them but instead belongs to the public... which seems kind of -- I don't know -- socialist to me.
Seriously - why are all lesbians (certainly all WHITE lesbians) government workers?
It boggles the mind.
And why are they always so angry?
That's a higher percentage than the amount the Koch brothers donated to Walker.
You're comparing two people to an entire state. Apples and oranges. Not to mention that the Citizens United ruling frees up the Kochs to assist Walker in other ways.
The protestors are so damn white I actually had to close my west facing windows here in Monona! It looks like daylight at the capitol building(or what's left of it)
@chickelit
I don't know Paul Soglin from Adam, but a quick google says yes that's him... earlier in the interview he said he was mayor back in the 70's, does that track?
He's on the other side of the fence from me, but was doing a great job, restraining his exasperation with the lefty interviewer, that Madison in 2011 is neither Egypt nor the U.S. of 120 years ago. ("Why not support a general strike? See what it did in Egypt!....
it's money that we paid people for their work
What world do you live in? Seriously dude!
That union money never goes to them - it goes in their name straight from us to the Democrat supporting union, whether the worker wants it to or not. It's legal larceny. Always has been.
I fail to see how their funding is "from the public coffers": it's money that we paid people for their work -- unless you're implying that any money paid out to people who happen to work for government entities doesn't really belong to them but instead belongs to the public... which seems kind of -- I don't know -- socialist to me.
Well, the money never actually gets to the 'workers' - until this bill passes, the state took this money for dues out of the check beforehand and handed it over to the unions, who then laundered it and gave it to democrats, who (oddly enough) then basically give the unions what they want come negotiation time.
So, really, the UNION takes that money form people and uses it to support the UNIONS' interests, and not necessarily the interests of the 'worker'.
I would hope that this is enough to make people FINALLY realize that Public-Employee Unions should be made illegal. The Police have evidently decided that their loyalty to another Union is higher than their loyalty to the Law, or to their Oaths.
I cannot imagine a way they could bring greater shame to themselves, their profession, nor their State. Every last one of them that has failed to do his or her duty tonight should be terminated and barred from ever again holding any sworn position. How can anyone ever again trust a WI Police Officer with these images in their mind? They'll always wonder, "Will they protect me, will they uphold the law, or will they feel a greater loyalty to their Union bosses' orders?"
Orion
And why are they always so angry?
Too ugly to get work in any high-revenue girl-on-girl movies?
If it's reasonable, but it breaks the law, is it still reasonable?
The law includes a provision for exceptions under exigent circumstances.
I fail to see how their funding is "from the public coffers"
Heh. And to think - lefties are supposed to be the smart ones.
The verdict is in: he is apparently new to this arguing thing.
James -- Please come back when you graduate high school. Thanks.
Madison - Jo Oyama-Miller, wife of state Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona), pleaded for several hundred demonstrators to leave the ante-chamber of the state Assembly Wednesday night.
"If we can evacuate we can win this battle," she said. "We wont if we break the law."
Oyama-Miller, who is of Japanese descent, said her parents went peacefully to internment camps during World War II.
"They took the high road," she told the protesters as she urged them to do the same.
Bruce Colburn, a vice president with the Service Employees International Union, asked people to also take the high road.
"I think people are going to make their point, stand their ground," he said. "We'll be respectful. People have fought hard but always with non-violence."
[Journal Sentinel]
Is it not somewhat troubling that Scott Fitzgerald is more than happy to admit that this legislation isn't based on a desire to simply reduce the state's deficit -- but rather to politically damage the other team under the guise of reducing the deficit?
It probably would have been troubling to me when I was 12 years old, before I knew that both parties have spent their entire histories trying to screw each other over as much as possible.
The important thing is that the public unions are being broken. That's a vital step for fixing not just Wisconsin, but American government as a whole. I don't care if this is being done out of pure motives or because Republicans are sexually aroused by the tears of union members.
the main doors had not been opened since 9/11.
??
Heh. And to think - lefties are supposed to be the smart ones.
The verdict is in: he is apparently new to this arguing thing.
Am I missing something here? If what you say is true -- and any money donated by public workers is tainted because it comes from "public coffers" -- why not simply support legislation that makes it illegal for public workers to donate to political campaigns?
You're comparing two people to an entire state. Apples and oranges.
Yet, they only managed to scrape up 34 thousand dollars for Walker's campaign (out of 40 million he raised) and yet people think they 'own' Walker etc.
Not to mention that the Citizens United ruling frees up the Kochs to assist Walker in other ways.
Of course. I mean, you never see organizations run by rich progressives supporting democrats or anything. That is merely a 'right wing' phenomenon.
Yeah. You're pretty new at this.
I don't know Paul Soglin from Adam, but a quick google says yes that's him... earlier in the interview he said he was mayor back in the 70's, does that track?
Yes it's him. He was mayor when I lived there. He's running again.
Looks like the occupancy is full on again.
Trash Wednesday in the Capitol restrooms (closed) MamaM
"why not simply support legislation that makes it illegal for public workers to donate to political campaigns?"
You've heard of the "first amendment", right?
KOCH!!!!!!!11111!!!1!
And then James tries the slippery slope. And -- not very shockingly -- fails.
Employees should not be allowed to unionize against taxpayers. Period. That is the beginning and ending of the argument.
or because Republicans are sexually aroused by the tears of union members.
If we could bottle that for use as a lubricant. we could make a buttload of money.
The important thing is that the public unions are being broken. That's a vital step for fixing not just Wisconsin, but American government as a whole.
How do the unions hurt American government? Is your claim that getting rid of unions will significantly reduce the Federal deficit? If so, how?
David said...
"Leave the Kids Alone."
There is no point in spilling blood, cracking heads or hauling them limp off to jail.
Let them trash the place if they feel they must.
Let the police fail to intervene.
Show up every day to conduct the people's business.
If it can't be done inside, do it on the steps of the capitol.
If they interfere on the steps, find another place. Publicize the time and location well in advance.
If the opponents want to hold their breath and turn blue, let them. Let them be a mob. Do not use violence against them, even moderate force. Respond only to their violence, if they turn that way. Let them be a mob. Do not let them be martyrs. They will fail if allowed to show their true colors.
Americans do not like mob rule. That is all these protestors have to offer. Do not allow them to act as victims, as they are not. They want to be a mob? Let them be one.
I'm inclined to agree with this.
If what you say is true -- and any money donated by public workers is tainted because it comes from "public coffers" -- why not simply support legislation that makes it illegal for public workers to donate to political campaigns?
The bill passed today FIXES THAT VERY THING. Unions will now have to annually ASK workers if they can take that money from them and spend it on whatever the union wants to for political purposes.
It's fee choice back to the workers - and that's freedom. That's America.
You've heard of the "first amendment", right?
Yes, I have. If people have the right to donate their money, they also have the right to form unions. Freedom of association.
Also, James, I hope you realize that by bringing up this ridiculous Kock thing, you expose your whole juvenile worldview.
A composite picture of a typical family of Madison protesters
Also, James, I hope you realize that by bringing up this ridiculous Kock thing, you expose your whole juvenile worldview.
I did not bring up the Kochs. I have no idea what you're talking about, and frankly your (and others') ad hominem attacks do not make responding to you a very productive use of my time.
"I'm inclined to agree with this."
Duh.
As if it was a mystery why the meadia was spinning and hyping the mob/chaos.
James:
Well, then people should also have the right to not join the union...but the public unions in Wisconsin did not go along with that..
If people have the right to donate their money, they also have the right to form unions.
They can form unions. They can't collaborate to drive up their own wages and benefits at the expense of taxpayers.
There's nothing constitutional here, junior.
Chew on this, though: why can't I sue the government for anything I want to sue the government for? There is a right (and easy) answer.
KOCH!!!! I SMELL THEM!! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!
Am I missing something here?
Yes.
Several folks here have explained it to you, very succinctly. Multiple times. Union dues are not voluntary. Political contributions made with union dues do not come from individuals. They are extracted - INVOLUNTARILY and often CONTRARY TO THE WISHES OF INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS - from public employees.
Just so we're clear, it is the INVOLUNTARILY part that is particularly objectionable, but the whole scheme should be prosecutable under RICO.
Yes, I have. If people have the right to donate their money, they also have the right to form unions. Freedom of association.
Of course, and nobody is saying otherwise. On the other hand, there is no obligation on the part of the government to grant any special privileges to those unions. THAT is what is being taken away. THAT is what everyone is so upset about.
These Kochs are nefarious. Big yet sneaky. Ninja-like.
The web stream briefly showed what appears to be a police checkpoint at the entrance.. rebuffing what New Media Meade reported earlier..
Whats going on?
Did the police set up a checkpoint so quickly or did they patch in a response to New Media Meade to try to discredit him?
Union dues are not voluntary. Political contributions made with union dues do not come from individuals. They are extracted - INVOLUNTARILY and often CONTRARY TO THE WISHES OF INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS - from public employees.
So about freedom of association? James?
If people have the right to donate their money, they also have the right to form unions. Freedom of association.
Yes - BUT, if people are FORCED to join a union because that's the only way they can work in that state, why should they also be forced to support political causes hey don't agree with by having money taken form every paycheck by that union to support political causes they don't agree with?
What about some local tribal custom of chanting "Shame, shame"? It's hard to find good rioters anymore. If we hear chants of "Verguenza, verguenza" tomorrow we will know that rioting is another job Americans wont do.
"These Kochs are nefarious. Big yet sneaky. Ninja-like."
More like WILY JEWS IN TOP HATS!
James is on his union-mandated hourly break period.
why not simply support legislation that makes it illegal for public workers to donate to political campaigns?
For starters, it would be unconstitutional.
James, does freedom of speech for the union include the right to confiscate part of my pay check. OR does MY FoS allow me to say NO!
Did the police set up a checkpoint so quickly or did they patch in a response to New Media Meade to try to discredit him?
Maybe they took their sweet time getting it set up. I mean, they are getting Overtime pay for this. Time and a half, probably.
They are going to see a judge about keeping the doors open?
James: Are you aware that the 1939 federal Hatch Act forbids partisan activity by federal employees and state and local employees whose compensation in whole or in part is funded by the federal government.
I'll wager there isn't a teacher, policeman or firefighter in WI whose pay is not in part funded by the feds.
Galvinized! A thin sheen!
ALH said:
A composite picture of a typical family of Madison protesters
See - I told you. All lesbians.
Union dues are not voluntary. Political contributions made with union dues do not come from individuals. They are extracted - INVOLUNTARILY and often CONTRARY TO THE WISHES OF INDIVIDUAL MEMBERS - from public employees.
Much as I hate to do it, I will have to pull out an old conservative maxim: "If you don't like it, go somewhere else."
Lem, do you have a link for the web stream? I saw no police "check points" while I was there.
Yes, I have. If people have the right to donate their money, they also have the right to form unions. Freedom of association.
Walker didn't strip them of their right to form unions and have freedom of association.
He stripped them of (a) their right to have legally-enforced collective bargaining for benefits and (b) their right to have the government force anyone who wants to work for the government to fund the union.
If the teachers want to get together in a big group and complain that their benefits aren't good enough, they still can. The government just won't be under any more of an obligation to listen to them than it is to listen to, say, the Tea Party.
Here's a picture of the Koch brothers flanking King Walker on his inauguration float, borne on the broken backs of public workers!
Much as I hate to do it, I will have to pull out an old conservative maxim: "If you don't like it, go somewhere else."
Hate to do it? Don't play coy, my man, and try to put that old chestnut off on connservatives, even if only on the ones that camp out in your imagination! Hell, you're being absolutely consistent - your side invented it!
Much as I hate to do it, I will have to pull out an old conservative maxim: "If you don't like it, go somewhere else."
Or we can strip you of your unearned special privileges and then laugh about it.
I like that plan better. :)
Much as I hate to do it, I will have to pull out an old conservative maxim: "If you don't like it, go somewhere else."
No. What has happened is the law is about to be much different. You lose. So, you and all your ugly lesbian friends go somewhere else.
Meanwhile, please send someone who can argue better.
Here's a picture of the Koch brothers flanking King Walker on his inauguration float, borne on the broken backs of public workers!
That is awesome. I may print that out, circle the 'We eat for you' part with an arrow pointing at it from the word "Me", then circle the peopl eon the bottom with an arrow pointing at it from the word "You" and hang it on my office door at work.
They are making it sound like ALL collective bargaining was taken away.. Wasnt the Walker plan to take away only the benefits part away from collective bargaining?
James -- If you don't like the new law, go somewhere else.
Lem, do you have a link for the web stream? I saw no police "check points" while I was there.
http://www.livestream.com/theuptake
Wasnt the Walker plan to take away only the benefits part away from collective bargaining?
Well, yeah. But he also gave every union employee the right and freedom to vote whether to certify the union or not every year! Can yo believe it? He gave them FREEDOM TO CHOOSE! Can you believe the nerve of that guy???
(I always heard that 'choice' was a good thing)
Lem,
Yes, they still have collective bargaining for wages.
REALLY!
THAT"S WHAT YOU THINK!
So, if my Republican brother is a carpenter and wants to take work from the State of Wisconsin, but can only do it if he joins the carpenter's - unlike many of the states, mind you - it's okay that the union takes his money whether he likes it or not and gives it to Democrats who stand for things he is against, like abortion and gun confiscation. That's okay with you James.
Tell us - how can that ever be right?
Don't be a pussy, James. Answer the question.
Apparently the bill that was passed is almost the same as the budget bill less a few things. The bill passed includes the benefit cuts. The senate republicans received an opinion from the senate non-partisan legislative counsel. Apparently, the term "fiscal" has been interpreted by Wisconsin courts very narrowly to include only taxing and statutory appropriations.
The idea that the senate republicans violated the open meeting law is also pretty thin. Even if they technically violated the law, a court would have to find that running afoul of the open meeting law outweighs the importance of the law itself (a yearly budget bill!) Plus it's pretty hard to argue that the public was not informed about the law or lacked a forum to speak about it.
Will urine and feces harm the marble floors? I'm guessing yes.
Somebody check the grotto.
Lem,
Yes, they still have collective bargaining for wages.
Thats still huge! in my opinion.
What the f do they want?
James...if those union people are so upset that they are going to have to pay into their own pensions just like the peasants do...then they can go somewhere else too. But I don't think anywhere they go will be immune to financial realities.
Why did they all go wild just now?
_____________
wv = unato
When NATO and the UN merge
Lem, those bargaining rights are tied to the rate of inflation however, and they don't like that..and they have to pay for part of their health care and their pensions too. They also have to have yearly votes to keep the unions certified..and I think they have to collect their own dues as well. Up until now the state has been collecting the dues and giving them to the unions.
Why did they all go wild just now?
The drumming stopped?
What the f do they want?
They want today, they want tomorrow.
2nd person who said this was Face Book driven.
that's what i thought.. and I agree with all of those Terry..
Thanks for the clarification..
Somebody is going to have to explain reality to these grown-up kids. That's a huge job...who's up to it?
The lawful authority in Wisconsin is in a very difficult position with few tools available. Between the media coloring perceptions and the White House controlling federal assets the duly elected government is not garaunteed to survive.
The breach of discipline by the State Police is most serious. They are no longer a lawful police authority. They are now a partisan force with guns. That makes this an Insurrection.
Does the Governor still command the loyalty of the Wisconsin National Guard? Can he mobilize a Company of the Guard and have them clear the Capitol? If need be can he call on the Republican Governors of neighboring Michigan and Iowa for assistance?
Given the current occupant of the White House an appeal for help under the US Constitution Art. IV, Sect. 4, cl. 2 is unlikely to work. It is more likely that if the Governor did activate the Guard that Obama would federalize them and then make a speech about Little Rock and the school house door.
If all else fails the Governor could call out the unorganized Militia, that is almost all males, citizens or lawful permanent residents, between 17 and 45, or veterans up to age 64. The term militia has already been demonized in the popular imagination by its association with fringe groups during the 1990s. Most people probably believe that the Oklahoma City bombing by Timothy McVeigh was an act of militia violence.
James...if those union people are so upset that they are going to have to pay into their own pensions just like the peasants do
They already do: http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
Unsurprisingly, the Republicans (and media) have misrepresented the situation.
Apparently the police have closed all the doors except for one..
Palladian said...
What the hell is with the fucking drumming?
It's leftards thinking they are tribalists and shit.
Life -- Chill out there, dude. It's a flash mob. There is no violence.
Besides, I think you need to get back to the birther committee so they can have a quorum.
That's a a lot of overtime hours getting racked up by the Capitol police.
Who pays? Is it win-win for the Unions?
I have an update at Volokh. The Senate didn't violate the Open Meetings Law because it doesn't apply to Senate Rules. The question is whether they followed Senate Rules requiring 24 hours except in special circumstances, when 2 hours is adequate.
If they violated their own rules, then one would have to determine whether that mattered, which depends on the Stitt case as it may have been modified by the Milwaukee Journal case.
Jim Lindgren
Volokh.com
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