Look, I agree that GOP should not ignore the recall battle...
Unions and the left are far outspending pro-business interests and the right on recall ads. Democrats are wise to see more at stake than a single state Senate majority and a new political map that could unseat two freshmen Republican congressmen. They know this is the first battle of 2012 — their version of 2010's surprise election of Scott Brown, R-Mass., who won a blue-state U.S. Senate seat formerly held by Democrat Ted Kennedy....That's really important. But aging hippies did not trash the Wisconsin Capitol. There have been huge crowds at the Capitol in the last 6 weeks, and most of them weren't even trashing anything. The composition of the crowd has changed over time. It began with a lot of middle-aged state employees, notably teachers.
There was a tremendous infusion of energy from young people — especially the UW TAs. Who did the things that can be called "trashing"? Who broke windows and doors and taped up a lot of signs? I think it was the young people who became excessively impassioned about something that looked like good politics to them. They weren't hippies, though. And neither were the older state employees, who have jobs and, presumably, pretty damned conventional lives. This has been a fight over the preservation of the political clout of public employees, who love their job security and their pensions. These aren't hippie values.
Quit blaming hippies. No hippies were involved.
Anyway, about the recall elections. Not only is it important for Republicans to take these elections seriously, as Zito states, because of the damaging losses that could occur. It's also a great opportunity. Think of the up side. Promote the budget plan as something positive. You suddenly have a Democratic-Party-made platform for touting your program. And the protesters have, for your convenience, generated a vast array of images and video to attack the Democrats' position.
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No hippies were involved.
Not even on the periphery? Could have fooled me.
Perhaps hippies were not involved in the protests, but I think it's pretty clear that most of the problems we face today are the fault of the hippies of the past who are now in positions of power.
Hippies still smell bad, too.
It began with a lot of middle-aged state employees, notably teachers.
Where I live, this is the very definition of hippie.
Donate to the RSLC to support the Republican recall effort. I donated $50 yesterday. If/When these recalls occur, they will be the most important elections until Nov. 2012.
No hippies were involved.
Call them student radicals then?
"Quit blaming hippies. No hippies were involved."
Not entirely accurate.
Some of those TAs were procreated when hippies balled while listening to Procol Harum back in 1969 - 1979. Which is why many of those TAs are named Sunshine and Rainbow and Dylan. But then the hippies either died or became yuppies.
Or became yuppies and then died.
The correct term is douchenozzles.
Sharpen up.
No hippies were involved. So hippies are pro-Walker?
If the GOP doesn't toot its own horn, then its horn shall not be tooted. The quiet humble act of not bragging about its victory needs to be replaced with a repeated campaign teaching of the financial reality of a near collapsed economy that only the GOP is willing to face today.
It began with a lot of middle-aged state employees, notably teachers.
You just wrote your rebuttal to this "Teachers aren't hippies" bit, with your posting on Bill Ayers.
Make up your mind.
1) You have a pretty narrow definition of "hippy", I suspect, maybe from living in Madison. I'd probably call a man with a pony-tail who's an avowed socialist a hippy. You'd call him Professor Smith whose office is next door to yours.
2) The author said "aging hippies". As hippies age, they stink less of patchouli and more of sauvignon blanc. But they're still hippies; you can't wash everything away with a hot bath.
3) You're right, no one trashed the capital. Some of the people were obnoxious, but that's about all your excellent coverage showed in the way of bad behavior. I'm not sure why the author made that claim.
"You just wrote your rebuttal to this "Teachers aren't hippies" bit, with your posting on Bill Ayers."
No. He's a hard-working politico with a conventional job. Nothing hippie about that at all.
Signed,
Ann Althouse
Defender of Monuments, Children Who Lie on the Floor, and Hippies
Unions and the left are far outspending pro-business interests
And?
"Outspending" doesn't necessarily mean electoral victory.
Especially when your ideas are idiotic and not sustainable in this fiscal environment.
pretty damned conventional lives
Anyone with those type of salaries, benefits and job security are unconventional. Thus the problem, they want to believe they are, or portray themselves, as conventional but they aren't.
@Pastafarian You "agreed" with me about something I didn't say!
And, sorry, but political activists and hippies are different. There are so few hippies around that people today don't even remember what they were. Yippies and hippies, for example, were *completely* different -- different goals, different attitudes. Yeah, the yippies barged into the same cultural space the hippies created and the hippies were too weak to preserve the brand distinction diligently.
"Anyone with those type of salaries, benefits and job security are unconventional. Thus the problem, they want to believe they are, or portray themselves, as conventional but they aren't."
Their values are conventional. That they got more of what conventional people desire does not make them unconventional.
"No hippies were harmed during the filming of these protests."
Ha-ha-ha!
You're all hippies. I don't care how you dress, what job you hold, or what you think, you're a bunch of young and old hippies. Why?
The one thing you don't have enough sense to do is hate hippies.
And once you say "I don't hate anybody" you've made my case.
What were hippies called before the word became fashionable, after JFK was elected in 1960?
Hippies then usually averaged in at about 40 years of age, believe it or not. And, the kids said, "Don't trust anyone over 30." And, at Woodstock, "don't take the brown acid."
Maybe, it's the Rotunda's echo chamber, but the drumming, the chanting, and the speeches given through bullhorns, made being inside good only for the DEAF.
Did it make news? You bet'cha. But if memory serves me right, 1968 HURT the democraps more than you can imagine. First, LBJ announces that he's not going to run for re-election. And, then RFK gets shot, after playing Hamlet for awhile, about making a run of his own for the nomination.
You'd think those assassinations, especially when you include Martin Luther King, Jr., would have bounced the democraps into a winning position.
And, guess what? Nixon won!
When these things happen in politics, the long knives come out.
I agree but are the Republicans smart enough to figure this out and properly take advantage of it? If the past is any indication I doubt it. They aren't earning the nickname "the stupid party" without merit.
Their values are conventional. That they got more of what conventional people desire does not make them unconventional.
Putting up with Bill Ayers is conventional? Believing that Bill Ayers is a decent, employable person is conventional?
Perhaps hippie isn't the issue here.
You've lived in academic communities for too long, Althouse.
No decent business would employ Ayers. That the educational community would embrace this monster shows a very serious disconnect in values.
Ayers is not a minor figure in the educational community. His vicious stupidity is taught in every ed school in the country.
In my neck of the woods, Sheila Harsdorf (R) has been running ads on WEVR out of River Falls that explain exactly what the issues are. Those issues are the simple fact that we don't have any money and that teachers and other state workers need to pay the same amount for medical, pension benefits as every one else.
no true hippie would bathe more than once a month
The union folks protesting are reactionaries trying to protect the status quo from progressive reform that would bring openness and efficiency to government, as well as return decisionmaking to the lowest echelons of WI government.
You suddenly have a Democratic-Party-made platform for touting your program
Problem is for the WI GOP, the more people in WI learn of their program, the less they like it.
Hippies are all hitting retirement age. In not too many years, the last of them will be dead. They were never more than a tiny and totally unrepresentative slice of the boomer demographic. Do we really still need to be talking about them as though they have the slightest bit of relevance?
Problem is for the WI GOP, the more people in WI learn of their program, the less they like it.
No, the problem, garbage, is that you continue to issue these stern pronouncements that intimate that you speak for anybody except for your own, whacko self.
It's just you, garbage. And, that's it.
Stop pretending you speak for somebody else. It's a stupid thing to do. But, to be expected from you.
Zito wrote "aging hippies," which may mean former hippies with a new middle age, middle class entitlement mentality rooted in a self-interested statism.
This would be a generational transmogrification similar to what has been said here about the new, big government "anarchists."
I would associate this latter movement to the "excessively impassioned" young people who did lean toward trashing the place, in furtherance of the mutual statist goals of the two groups.
Did Zito simply fail to distinguish between the two groups and the identify intergenerational symbiosis that exists between them?
Their values are conventional.
Perhaps so, but I can only go on what I see.
Althouse thanks for discarding these cheap stereotypes that some folks resort to using as thought that makes their claims more solid. As a blue collar political activist in the sixties, I found very few of the turn-in, drop-out folks active in civil rights and later the anti-war movement. I am not sure what a hippie looks like today, and as someone who runs workshops for new TAs, I have yet to meet one named Sunshine for Rainbow, but I will admit that I have talked with one well-dressed TA from Italy who does seem to have radical ideas about labour.
This is a middle class protest, by and for the benefit of an already privileged segment of society. They are not demonstrating for rights, but for privileges which are not available to most workers. Many people, especially media types, have missed this obvious point. Althouse is providing a service through her reminders of this fact.
...and as someone who runs workshops for new TAs...
The fact that a loon like you is employable in education in that capacity says everything that needs to be said about the disconnect in values between that system and the rest of us.
You're a whack job commie. I live among the commies. I know one when I see one.
What's even worse... you're too dumb to even know you're a commie. But, that's par for the course. And, you regard your stupidity as "enlightenment." I've heard it all.
The key task for Republicans is to defeat their own recalls. That will make all the political points necessary. Far better to support that effort than the potential recall of mostly safe seat Democrats.
No hippies were harmed in the making of this blog.
I think the hippie tie-in is that in many cases hippies later became public employees. A job where the primary benefit is that you can't get fired and the culture prides itself that there isn't any pressure to produce seems to fit well with the hippie mindset.
So hippies found the best circumstance they could when they finally realized they wanted regular shelter and food. Taking from others using government pressure is just a compromise they had to make to continue that carefree life.
Now shouting thomas don't be mean to roachy.
He is the reason for the esteem that most of blue collar America feels for academia these days.
You can't make it up.
Stop pretending you speak for somebody else. It's a stupid thing to do. But, to be expected from you.
When Charlie Sykes sounds the alarm bell, you know the WI GOP is running scared in Wisconsin.
Shouting-- an odd statement from a guy who admires Reed who makes a Marxist type of analysis of our society but you don't recognize his stance, so I wonder about your name calling. As for Values that is what academics help their students gain so that, to take one recent example from a current student of mine, they can earn an apprenticeship with Siemens International. This is what the systems expects of us, and this is what I deliver.
If/When these recalls occur, they will be the most important elections until Nov. 2012.
Oh, I think there's one before the recalls -- a week from tomorrow -- that is a little more important. And the results from that will be very very interesting.
Bill Ayers is the poster boy for "aging hippies". The fact that he has a job means nothing- even when he was a young hippie he lived off the considerable wealth generated by his father's conventional job.
"And the results from that will be very very interesting."
Any predictions? Haven't seen any polls.
How about old hippies with new values.
So maybe there were only a handful of full-fledged "hippies" present, but there were plenty of the Madison hippie lite types around the Capitol.
I'm not sure just how to categorize them, but from what I can tell they're the mode group in Madison and are unique to Madison. Aged 40-65 of northern European ancestry, they wear Keen shoes or socks with sandals and drive Subarus or Priuses (or minivans, oddly) with 2-4 lefty/Progressive bumper stickers. Their dress is slightly earthy and outdoorsy despite their being relatively inactive. While not unkempt, I know I'll never catch a archetypal female hippie lite Madisonian at the salon. Also, they tend to be very rigid and always know what's best for you. (I suspect this might have something to do with the cultural heritage of the area.) These people are all gainfully employed and not genuine hippies, only sympathizers.
Again, they are the mode--not the majority. But the volume really is striking. And boring.
The most common look for the Madisonian in his 20s or 30s is different, being more hipster-urban bike courier. With a Tumbuk2 messenger bag, tight jeans and retro glasses.
Any predictions? Haven't seen any polls.
I don't trust any polls. The Appleton Paper -- Prosser's hometown -- has endorsed Kloppenburg, which I found interesting.
As always, I'll be happy if the incumbent loses.
This has been a fight over the preservation of the political clout of public employees, who love their job security and their pensions. These aren't hippie values.
I have tried patiently explaining to people how the Tea Party movement is akin to the Hippie movement (before the commies took over). I think I will stop being patient next time and just fill the room with uppercuts.
"The Appleton Paper -- Prosser's hometown -- has endorsed Kloppenburg, which I found interesting."
That is surprising. Thanks for the info. M.M.. Whatever happens it should be an interesting spring season in Wisconsin.
Kloppenburg signs have sprung up all over in Our Fair City. I find this distressing.
What gets me is that the complaint of the left: "Prosser is too partisan" describes the hopes invested in Kloppenburg. They want her to be partisan.
The ultimate reality check in WI is whether the WI taxpayers are willing to pay more taxes so the public sector workers don't have to take cuts in their benefits and salaries. When all the noise is said and done, it's all about the Benjamin's. Since Madison is both a state capital and a college town (almost entirely dependent on taxes collected) what goes on there in terms of street theater really means nothing. What does matter is the reaction and thinking throughout the state where folks who pay taxes live. The republicans ought to man up and take the fight to the people. They have nothing to lose.
"Independent Women’s Voice retained The Polling Company to conduct a statewide survey of 400 frequent voters in Wisconsin on March 13-14, followed by an in-depth focus group on March 16 to assess if the traditional red-state messaging being used was backfiring with critical independents in traditionally blue-state Wisconsin, as well as if other messaging approaches had more resonance.
Ah a left-wing polling group got the desired result. I bet not a single GOP senator is recalled but 3-4 Dems are when it's all said and done.
Sure, RINOs are always running scared. They have no principles! the key in Wisconsin is to purge all the RINOs and once we have ideological purity then we can finally stand up to the union thugs.
Can anyone tell me what is immoderate about Scott Walker? He seems like a very middle-of-the-road milquetoast type of guy. I don't get it. He's no Carl Palladino.
The Republicans are scared of discussing the budget mess because they understand that people will realize what they are doing (thus, the total refusal to re-vote legally, because even their own members have had time to read the bill and now publcly oppose parts of it, let alone all the private discussions). The truth is that there is a budget shortfall, but that Walker and the Fitz boys' plan places the majority of the pain on working people, while corporations and the wealthy remain virtually untouched. In fact, a big chunk of the shortfall was created by massive new tax breaks for corporations. The people are starting to understand that, and the delay and discussion that should have happened weeks ago will expose them now.
Also, I love the people here now admitting that there is very little damage to the capitol, and that it was unintentional, after repeating mass-hysteria bull-s--- when I repeatedly calle dyou on it.
One of the key facts the protests have made clear to any thinking person is the Democrat tactic of repeating their narrative supporting accusations even where no supporting evidence exists. Walker is a dictator, the protests are democracy, etc.
I just want to thank lawyapalooza for keeping this inane tactic alive (below) and demonstrating the intellectual dishonestly of the left. Keep it coming.
"but that Walker and the Fitz boys' plan places the majority of the pain on working people, while corporations and the wealthy remain virtually untouched.
Also, I love the people here now admitting that there is very little damage to the capitol, and that it was unintentional, after repeating mass-hysteria bull-s--- when I repeatedly calle dyou on it.
Meadehouse photo & video documentation prove otherwise. Fucking hippies destroyed the capitol causing $10 million in damage.
I keep hearing from Ritmo that Walker is a crude horrible man. But he never said this:
He said Republicans had driven the economy into a ditch and then stood by and criticized while Democrats pulled it out. Now that progress has been made, he said, “we can’t have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”
Can you IMAGINE if Walker said that, the left would be shooting blood out of their eyes and destroyed Madison in 24 hours.
A hippie at 20, and by middle-age, a union man with a crust of knee-jerk "hippie" belief.
I find no implausibility in that - Christ, have you listened to the crap "teachers" spew so regularly?
Can't really distinguish it, myself.
(Remember, for those of us who aren't From The Summer Of Love, "hippie" isn't quite as limited in application... whatever the modern pseudo-hippies push is still "hippie".)
MadMan:
As always, I'll be happy if the incumbent loses.
Will you not vote for Obama in 2012?
"Can anyone tell me what is immoderate about Scott Walker? He seems like a very middle-of-the-road milquetoast type of guy. I don't get it. He's no Carl Palladino."
That's is easy. Scott Walker is an effective conservative who wins policy fights and elections. It is because he does these things with a reasonable, milquetoast appearance is why the left thinks he needs to be destroyed.
Will you not vote for Obama in 2012?
Happy that an incumbent loses does not always translate to voting against them.
Happy that an incumbent loses does not always translate to voting against them.
Ok, then, will you be happy if Obama loses? How happy could you be if you vote *for* him?
Come on.
Why so many excuses about voting for this woman? Own it!
I don't know if I'm voting for Obama because I don't know (1) what the state of the country will be in 2012 or (2) who is running against him.
The recent history of the Republican Party's nomination process does not instill a lot of Hope in me.
I've explained many times why I would like JoAnne to win: She is a neighbor and a nice neighbor at that, and she is not the incumbent. I'm not sure why you think I'm not owning this choice.
I'm not sure why you think I'm not owning this choice.
Because you keep talking about her being a neighbor, and overselling your anti-incumbancy stance (as always! as if).
I feel the need to have you admit you would be more than happy if she were elected for the very reasons the union wants her elected.
wannabe hippies. some young people hear about how great the damn 60s were and want to emulate it. but they're idiots, mostly because they learn from aging hippies, and do it wrong.
"Also, I love the people here now admitting that there is very little damage to the capitol, and that it was unintentional, after repeating mass-hysteria bull-s--- when I repeatedly calle dyou on it. "
The damage was not unintentional, it was a mob, and it was not peaceful.
We never claimed that there was more than $337,000.00 damage to the Capitol. I will allow, to someone who doesn't have to pay for it, that may sounds like "very little damage."
In fact some people, for example, the mob protesters, probably consider it great value for the money.
MayBee, let me assure you that I know more about why I'm voting for a person than you do.
My sister from Genessee Depot, WI, who taught in a parochial school for twenty years, is coming to dinner after a long flight from Dairyland.
Did anyone see the 60 Minutes piece on the St. Anthony's Jersey City b-ball team which has won 24 state and three NATIONAL championships, on a shoestring budget?
Why do parochial schools make great students [the inner city kids all get into college] while the highly-paid spoiled-rotten WI public school teachers resist vouchers promoted by parents who HATE the Milwaukee public school system, which gets viagra as part of their union contract & $100K in benefits per annum?
Inquiring MINDS want to know. So don't ask any WI grad students or TA's...!!!
MadisonMan,
I don't know if I'm voting for Obama,...
Sigivald,
A hippie at 20, and by middle-age, a union man with a crust of knee-jerk "hippie" belief.
I find no implausibility in that - Christ, have you listened to the crap "teachers" spew so regularly?
Can't really distinguish it, myself.
(Remember, for those of us who aren't From The Summer Of Love, "hippie" isn't quite as limited in application... whatever the modern pseudo-hippies push is still "hippie".)
Exactly. They're all hippies. And anyone who isn't a hippie can see they're not reasonable or rational, but determined - through the use of Liberal fascism - to force their ignorance, and the problems the flow from it, on the rest of us.
And, since the 60s, it has always been thus.
Ha, Mad Man! I believe you know more about your own thoughts. I just don't believe you are sharing them all :-)
I wouldn't think that hippies would be up to braving cold weather. Aging 60s radicals, however, are a different story.
"The damage was not unintentional, it was a mob, and it was not peaceful.
We never claimed that there was more than $337,000.00 damage to the Capitol. I will allow, to someone who doesn't have to pay for it, that may sounds like "very little damage."
You're full of it Meade. As you well know, even the $300k estimate is from the same people who alleged $7.5 million, and you also know that the unions have offered to fix any uniintentional damage, most of which involves resealing marble where tape took off sealant. You have deliberately misrepresented what has happened down here the entire time. In all of your taping, do you show anyone taking a swing at anyone? I know you didn't, because your pals at Fox News had to come up with fake video from other protests. I also know that because unlike almost all of the saps agreeing with you on this page, I have been here.
By the way, why are you so interested in this, when you are not a taxpayer? Unlike you, I do have to pay for it. I just want to pay for the actual damage. Which you and I both know was unintentional, but only one of us will admit it.
Are the Boomers the most destructive generation in the history of America?
Today we call hippies "bums". The older folks called them that back then too. It was correct then and it still is.
But, what do you call a hippie who gets older, gets a job and and still holds the same political views? A hypocrite.
Now if he has a government job and insists on delivering typical government level productivity while demanding exceptional pay and benefits, then again that's a bum.
I was a hippie once, and my goal is be one again. My principles and other people needs keep getting in the way. I will overcome this eventually and find my bliss.
lawyapalooza says "[the Repubs] plan places the majority of the pain on working people, while corporations and the wealthy remain virtually untouched. In fact, a big chunk of the shortfall was created by massive new tax breaks for corporations.".
Perfect, for all to see. The static, zero-sum economic model of collectivists. The results of an American public-school education. We are doomed. If the evils of the 20th century didn't convince you, nothing will.
They're all hippies. And anyone who isn't a hippie can see they're not reasonable or rational, but determined - through the use of Liberal fascism - to force their ignorance, and the problems the flow from it, on the rest of us.
And, since the 60s, it has always been thus
I was right in the midst of the Hippie movement in SF in the late 60's and early 70's, so I think I can opine here.
Hippies, while they wanted to imagine themselves as free spirits, were the most unfree people that I have ever known.
If you didn't adhere to the 'free spirit' doctrine or objected to the mantra of the day, week, month you were an outcast. They were the most rigid people in their world view. Theye were/are unable to rationally or logically look at a concept from any position that that of the group...The term group think, has a Hippie next to it in the dictionary. No other world views or opinions were acceptable. They were unforgiving, mean, vindictive and ran in packs like lemmings.
Sound familiar? Liberals today are just Hippies grown up who have better jobs and hygiene.
Same worthless, destructive, self centered and childish people.
You're full of it Meade.
I am?
As you well know, even the $300k estimate is from the same people who alleged $7.5 million, and you also know that the unions have offered to fix any uniintentional damage, most of which involves resealing marble where tape took off sealant.
No I didn't know that. Why are the unions offering to fix damage? Did they cause it? And why would there be a need to reseal marble? Didn't the protesters carefully use painters' blue tape whenever they put up their signs?
You have deliberately misrepresented what has happened down here the entire time.
You're wrong. I have deliberately accurately represented what I've happened upon at the Capitol every time I've gone up there. The truth hurts your feelings. I understand that. Be a man and suck it up.
In all of your taping, do you show anyone taking a swing at anyone?
No. We have not shown every video tape of every assault we have either witnessed or experienced.
I know you didn't, because your pals at Fox News had to come up with fake video from other protests.
We don't have any pals at Fox News.
I also know that because unlike almost all of the saps agreeing with you on this page, I have been here.
Why haven't you come over and said hello? I'd like to meet you in person.
By the way, why are you so interested in this, when you are not a taxpayer? Unlike you, I do have to pay for it.
You need to do a better Open Records request on my tax returns, lawyerpalooza, or else get WikliLeaks to do it for you because you don't have your facts straight. I pay tens of thousands of dollars of taxes.
I just want to pay for the actual damage. Which you and I both know was unintentional, but only one of us will admit it.
Putting the tape up was unintentional? Kicking in door panels was unintentional? Breaking windows and defacing monuments and state-owned property?
But I agree - since you admit to having caused the damage, lawyerpalooza, I think it's only right that you do pay for it.
Please get right on it.
The Fox news video showing palm trees was in a segment showing protests from all over the country. John Stewart [of camel abuser fame] misrepresented that as FOX attempting to pass it off as happening at the Wisconsin protest.Of course all the liberals eat that crap up as gospel because they actually don't have the ability to honestly argue their positions. Hate to disappoint,but you guys are preaching to the choir. And it is a shrinking choir at that.
No aging hippies were involved? What about this person and what about Ben Masel? And then there's this suspicious-looking fellow.
Actually, Professor, the part of your post that made me shudder was when you wrote this:
"There was a tremendous infusion of energy from young people — especially the UW TAs. Who did the things that can be called "trashing"? Who broke windows and doors and taped up a lot of signs? I think it was the young people who became excessively impassioned about something that looked like good politics to them."
I'm trying to imagine a world ordered according to the whims of the GTAs of a very left-of-center university, but I don't think human beings can live there.
Hippies are fairly innocuous folk. They just want peace, love, and a modicum of understanding so they can be free to be you and me and hug a tree and get back to some form of nature. No, aging hippies did not trash the state capitol. Leftards did that. Those rancid, shameless leftist apparatchiks of the ideology of death have trashed the state capitol with their mere presence over the last 50 years or so. We all got to see the rot they inflicted on it.
Granted, I was only there the one day, for a pretty short time, but the only two people I interacted with were both approximately my age (I was in high school and college during viet nam) and sure LOOKED like what I remember hippies looking like. They were both very polite, by the way, despite the fact that I'm quite sure we are at polar opposites politically at this point in our lives. (Not so much back then maybe).
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