Signs and junk...
... and even some people sleeping (at midday)...
Many signs depicted Jesus. Jesus says, "Tax the rich," and Scott Walker ignores our Lord:
The displays at the mezzanine level had become — like all the walls and pillars — places to tape signs. Here's the bust of Robert M. La Follette:
I don't know if you can see it. Look closely: that is the replica of the Liberty Bell under all those signs:
This is the back of the Veteran's Memorial, with all sorts of notices taped onto it and junk piled up against it.
Meade and I confronted the protesters who maintained what they called their "information station." That's Meade in the baseball cap during the confrontation:
I'll have video of the Veterans Memorial confrontation on YouTube and this blog very soon. The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.
ADDED: Here's the post with the video up now.
Posts
168 comments:
Gosh, it's such a disrespectful group.
Your coverage has been amazing.
How much do think of the protesters have been trucked in as professional rabble-rousers? Have you had that sense?
Are the doctors still handing out fake notes?
The complete visual clutter ensures that none of the messages actually sink in. Or stand out.
Seriously - these people have taken leave of common sense.
If they weren't looking like such horse asses to the rest of the country, I'd be worried.
But the demise of the Democrats seems closer every day because of their wanton selfishness and obvious low IQ's.
I've never been more hopeful for my country!
Go Democrats - PLEASE continue doing the idiotic things you are doing. PLEASE!
For many of these protesters, these will be the good old days.
Althouse and Meade deserve a Pulitzer for all their coverage the past week.
Wow. I am appalled at what these folks have done to our capitol. What blatant disrespect and self centered selfish behavior. They have made the capitol look like one of those campus kiosks with crap stapled all over it. Further, they look more like squatters than people who are serious about proper governance. Throw the bums out and lets return proper decorum to our beautiful state capitol.
I take the (probably) opposite view on the veterans' memorial.
The reason we honor vets is that they were called and they went, which is the essential move of morality itself.
Being called on singles you out, makes you irreplaceable; and answering that call is what we honor.
If you're going because you want to be honored, you're going for the wrong reason.
And in fact you won't be honored.
Which is what makes going the moral act that it is.
So the memorial is nothing.
I have read the Bible, with a particular focus on the words of Christ. There is nothing anywhere about taxing the rich in order to give money to the poor. Personal charity is comanded.
Interestingly, liberals eschew personal charity.
I wonder what kind of sin misquoting Christ is?
Trey
I'm reminded, sadly, of this image.
"This is what Democracy smells like."
Charity, to Augustine, was thinking the best of somebody rather than the worst.
That's what made it redeeming to your soul.
It wasn't money. That came as a fuzzy second meaning many centuries later.
One sign never convinces me.
But when I see so many signs, of so many different colors, with so many well thought out slogans, decorating the halls and walls of government buildings, I am utterly swayed. Swooning with sway.
So, defacing the veteran's memorial is not a dishonor, rh?
Huh?
Have we lost a sense of honor in this nation?
I think so.
MayBee said...
Althouse and Meade deserve a Pulitzer for all their coverage the past week.
They're just doing jobs that the locals (Isthmus) won't do.
Every one of the men memorialized on that Veterans Memorial is worth ten of the "protesting" douchebags.
It's no wonder the whole country hates them and their cause.
The "Wisconsin Shirker Rebellion" has failed at every turn.
No signs left behind.. The Bush doctrine.
Hey where is Cindy Sheehan?.. I knew we where missing somebody.
The veterans' memorial represents the vanity of some politician thinking he can measure up.
Jesus says, "Tax the rich,"
I love watching the "separation of church and state" crowd invoke Jesus to support their public policy preferences.
Why, it is almost as if they are incoherent or something.
Some of the evil Koch contributions
http://webcache.googleuser
content.com/search?q=cache:ITSvRZaFr6EJ:www.facesofphilanthropy
.com/david-h-koch/+david+
koch+aclu&cd=1&hl=en&ct=
clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
WV: carfe carfe diem
http://webcache.googleuser
content.com/searchq=cache:
ITSvRZaFrEJ:www.facesof
philanthropy.com/david-h-koch/+david+koch+aclu&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com
I read this blog daily and have for a long time, but I've never uttered a peep until now.
Thank you Ann and Meade for your coverage of the Madison events. I've come here for the news and your insights every few hours round the clock, and have never been disappointed. There isn't a news source or blog site in the country that can approach what you've accomplished and I thank you very much.
All that creativity, energy and time. Why has this not been translated to a thriving, vibrant and growing Wisconsin economy? Why does Racine increasingly resemble a 3rd. world ghetto with abandoned and boarded up buildings. Empty or bulldozed factories. Small business closing down... "We just couldn't make it economically"? A wave of crime that is growing.
Shared sacrifice? It went away with the WWII generation. For the Boomers, it's all about ME, and getting mine. Living large and conspicious consumption.
The Nation is polarizing and will be torn apart again. Gen X and Y are being asked to pay for the excesses of the Boomers. Austerity is coming.
I have a different take than RH's. I think most veterans appreciate recognition not of themselves, but of those they served with who were wounded or did not come back.
Here's at least one vet who is disgusted by anyone who disrespects the fallen.
3rd time
http://webcache.google
usercontent.com/search?q=cache:ITSvRZaFr6EJ:www.facesofphilanth
ropy.com/david-h-koch/+david+koch+aclu
&cd=&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl
=us&client=firefoxa&
source=www.google.com
Hey PaulV check out how to do a link.. if you care to.. (I'm not telling you what to do.. honest)
Yeah, your blog has been indispensable for understanding what was going on. We are all going to have to face this one. Here in California, it will probably be in some sort of receivership because our entire legislature is like the gang of 14.
I wonder how many demonstrators in the capitol knew who La Follette was. I'll bet damn few. History seems to be the first to go. Sort of like 1984.
"There is nothing anywhere about taxing the rich in order to give money to the poor."
My guess is it is not as much a genuine attempt to convey the teachings of Jesus, but more of an attempt to be clever in light of perceived, expected opposition from conservatives who are assumed to be Christian.
It is interesting to me that one instance where Jesus does talk about taxation, he says we should give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's. Which has been twisted to mean all sorts of things. Mostly, Jesus was avoiding the question meant to trap him into choosing a side, and saying we should do what we are responsible for doing.
However, there's also the key instance of Jesus addressing a rich man. The man asked what he needed to do to inherit eternal life. Jesus responded that he needed to sell everything and give it to the poor. The man couldn't do it, and walked away.
Jesus let him walk away.
Giving to and helping the poor is absolutely a Christian mandate. But, it is always a voluntary call we take on ourselves. So, the message on the sign is entirely wrong.
"Jesus says tax the rich."
You know, atheists really shouldn't try to play the religion card.
The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.
Is there a place more isolated from the military community than Madison , Wisconsin?
They are screaming about their resources being cut-while they are 100 percent behind cutting the defense department.
The resources the military whose lives perhaps are dependent on that now and into the future.
They don't mind divvying up the military resources behind the backs of the men and women out in theater, amongst those that stayed safely behind.
They don't mind doing that to that small faction of Americans willing to die for their country because who needs their vote?
And hell just to make sure that the military vote doesn't count-send them their ballots out too late and question the hell out of them when they do arrive.
These are the same Liberals that use to cry about the Sudan, and didn't care about the mass graves of children and Kurds in Iraq, and if it was Bush in power right now warships should be able to turn on a time and save the people of Libya-but they don't care. They have never cared all they have ever cared about is their won selfishness, their hand outs and ripping down America.
CNN shows you Libya because they supposedly "care".
But that's just it- in Iraq they couldn't prosper from the slaughter their was-
No Blood for Ratings-
hence they didn't care.
If America can't do anything about it why does CNN pretend to "care"?
The World's Lambs to the Slaughter-
let's all watch.
********
http://webcache.google
usercontent.com/search?q=cache:ITSvRZaFr6EJ:www.
facesofphilanthropy.com
/david-h-koch/+david+
koch+aclu&cd=1&hl=en&ct
=clnk&gl=
us&client=firefoxa&
source=www.google.com
AA, Jesus loves you ...
Really! :)
"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Gospel of St. Matthew 5:3-10
~~~~~
take care
I want to echo Barbara's comment at 8:28.. (she sounds like a hot babe ;)
I disagree that the fallen are the point, though it certainly is advertised that way.
The honor is in going when called, not in dying.
It's all been transformed in a way that keeps it from making sense, which is not a good thing.
The sense untransformed is a little hard to deal with, perhaps.
Morality is a fierce thing, not a matter of a few hail Marys now and then as it's been tamed to be.
The veterans' memorial represents the vanity of some politician thinking he can measure up.
No. Its a reminder to not forget the fallen.
The Union Brats have turned it into a vanity shrine.
And of course there are conservatives willing to facilitate that treachery, willing to align themselves with the Democrats to divvy up the resources while the best men and women of America are in harm's way.
A country that can do that is on the high speed rail to decline.
*****************
I like what Stanley Hauerwas, a Christian ethicist (and not even close to being a political conservative) says:
Whenever Christians think that we can support our ethic by simply pressuring Congress to pass laws or to spend tax money, we fail to do justice to the radically communal quality of Christian ethics.In fact, much of what passes for Christian concern today, of the left or of the right, is the social concern of a church that seems to have despaired being the church.
Unable through our preaching, baptism, and witness to form a visible community of faith, we content ourselves with ersatz Christian ethical activity -- lobbying Congress to support progressive strategies, asking the culture at large to be a little less racist, a little less promiscuous, a little less violent.
Falwell's Moral Majority is little different from any mainline Protestant church that opposes him. Both groups imply that one can practice Christian ethics without being in the Christian community.
Both begin with the Constantinian assumption that there is no way for the gospel to be present in our world without asking the world to support our convictions through its own social and political institutionalization. The result is the gospel transformed into civil religion.
a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.
That says alot. Not one Union Brat had the presence of mind to point out how disrespectful this is. Selfish little bitches.
Great! All this is heartening.
Are those Jesus signs ok to display in the public square?
Shiloh, I'm curious what the beatitudes have to say about this particular subject.
Jesus said that those who are outcast and rejected are the ones who are blessed.
Doesn't that mean the unions should be much more accepting of their supposed persecution and their lowered wages and ability to pester the government?
Should the ones who are clamoring in the streets be reminded they are to be peacemakers?
I think it's a very fitting call to the protesters, but it seems curious for you to post it given what I thought was your pro-teacher union perspective in other threads.
Even still, well put. Precisely the right call to those in the public unions who stir up chaos for the sake of their own personal gain and maintenance of power.
Is there a place more isolated from the military community than Madison , Wisconsin?
Cambridge MASS?
All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.
What war did Meade fight in, again?
Speaking as a veteran, Americans have fought and died defending the U.S. Constitution ie (((freedom of speech/assembly))) for over 200 years ...
America was borne out of revolution which can be a very messy business indeed, eh.
'nuf said!
The reason we honor vets is that they were called and they went, which is the essential move of morality itself.
Being called on singles you out, makes you irreplaceable; and answering that call is what we honor...
So the memorial is nothing.
In the context of how rh interprets the vet memorial, the tomb of the unknown soldier makes more sense to me.
Yes, jr565, mentioning Jesus is still legal.
For now.
All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.
I'll bet they weren't public sector unions. Do you distinguish them from unions which represent workers in the private industry?
shiloh said...
Great, the horse's ass with a horse's name is here.
Do you distinguish them from unions which represent workers in the private industry?
Divide and conquer is an antiunion strategy.
All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.
Yeah, Wisconsin's unionized DMV clerks with their 22 vacation days and 12 sick days a year are just like the Homestead strikers of 1895. Or maybe like Norma Rae. Whatever. Still more drama from the resident drama queen.
Paddy O
One thing that is great about the Bible ~ it can be interpreted (((every which way to Sunday))) depending on one's political agenda, eh.
take care
Christian charity is not about being generous with other people's money. You can look it up.
The mere fact that this "union activity" is occurring inside the Capitol instead of on the streets or in front of a private sector workplace is telling. This is a fundamentally different beast. This is fight over what government means.
How will picket lines at the local schools play in the eyes of the public?
Not well. Not well.
The casual, unthinking, reflexive defacement of war memorials and statuary commemorating famous historical figures by lefty "protesters" in the furtherance of their "great causes" is commonplace anymore--taken for granted, indeed de rigueur, almost--these days. ESPECIALLY if white men of European ancestry are depicted or memorialized. Which is why those you approached expressed such genuine amazement, Ann. And they were probably telling the truth. Unfortunately this has gone on for so long--been ALLOWED to go on for so long--that the general public has become inured to it, sad to say..
I hardly ever agree with you Shiloh, but thanks for your service.
Blessed are the cheesemakers and all manufacturers of dairy products...
The signs are a bit much, so that they will blend into the background, like the crazy lady's van I used to see in DC with a bunch of crazy conspiracy theories and stuff on it.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called children of God.
So, who would be the peacemakers in this particular dispute?
The grownups will regret the day they handed over this vital debate to the kids with the drums.
For example, see here.
I also echo E.M. Davis's observation about visual clutter, and I second what Barbara said.
(Welcome, Barbara!)
Tax the rich? That always seems to be the response of the Left. So, with that in mind:
1)What determines "rich"? 5 mil, 1 mil, 500K, 250K, 100K?
2)Who decides who's "rich"? Feds, state, local, your neighbors?
3)How much to tax? 50%, 75%, 99%?
4)What will be done with the revenue? Infrastructure upkeep, local services (police, fire, etc), welfare?
Consider, at some point, if the "rich" are taxed excessively, eventually they will tire of having to produce to pay for upkeep of the non-productive. Also, eventually they will no longer be "rich".
Did anybody spot a "Looking Good for Jesus" taped up sign?
Most of the protesters Meadhouse have shot would never appear on the The Sartorialist.
except for this babe.. maybe.
For example, see here.
Are they seriously claiming that people in Egypt are donating food to spoiled brats in Madison Wisconsin? If that is true, aren't you absolutley embarassed to take it? I mean, why wouldn't you, if you were a serious person, ask them to donate that money/food to someone in their own country who REALLY needs it?
That girl thought that was just charming, but it really is just an indication of how full of yourself you really are, that you would accept such a gift when other people need it so much more.
Honoring labor honors those brave men.
Yes, because I think you should continue conflating steam fitters with teachers.
Really, I do.
Tax the rich? That always seems to be the response of the Left. So, with that in mind:
1)What determines "rich"? 5 mil, 1 mil, 500K, 250K, 100K?
Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up. Budget deficits gone. Easy.
The veterans' memorial represents the vanity of some politician thinking he can measure up.
No. Its a reminder to not forget the fallen.
That's the advertised meaning.
It makes it operate sort of like a curse on the living, and a temptation to vets to economize on and diminish their own going; instead of an inspiration (morality, go when you are called).
Patton's great line in the movie, the point is to make the other guy die for his country, had the hint better.
In fact vets will be and always have been forgotten, as they should be; except for the part that is morality itself, go when called.
And of course they rationalize/justify such actions (as I've just described, above) to themselves AND their critics by claiming that those so memorialized fought and died for the right to hold *exactly* the sort of "lawful" protests they themselves are presently conducting--ignoring the minor detail that in all probability at least 50% of those memorialized would have strongly disagreed with their views and resented the appropriated use of such memorials honoring their sacrifices and/or deaths as cloaking them (the protesters) with the implied imprimatur/endorsement of their actions by those long dead so honored.
vnjagvet
Your welcome, and continual thanx to American soldiers, sailors, marines etc. who are currently serving on the front lines in Iraq, Afghanistan as Afghanistan appears to be the forgotten war, except to families who have a loved one in-country.
No one party/entity has a monopoly on patriotism as much as Bush43/Cheney tried to divide the country ie You're either w/us or against us nonsense.
Try to pick out the gay soldier!
Divide and conquer is an antiunion strategy.
And there you have it, a non-answer.
Don't worry, everyone reading can see your childish little games.
PS, just because WWI or WWII vets were in a union doesn't mean "unions" have any more legitimacy or use.
Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up. Budget deficits gone. Easy.
Cut spending by $1 trillion
Budget deficits gone.
Easy.
I'm glad you spent time looking for objectionable things the thousands of protesters are doing at the Capitol. It is not fair to the elite who prefer it to be all tidy and such to have it cluttered with homemade signs objecting to Governor Walker's perfectly acceptable bill. Maybe you could have suggested they should have framed oil paintings placed cleanly and neatly in the Capitol halls to make you feel better. It is such annoyance to have your sense of aesthetics disturbed by these middle class folks and students.
The demonstrators are opportunistic, attention whore pigs. Their sow is threatened, and so they shit everywhere. Pimps making big money off the public largesse turn the capital into a Hooverville, and they don't even get the joke.
Sad Wisconsin,
Weep Wisconsin,
Lay down every time,
Let the pigs crap in your beds
Until they steal you blind
(ha, ha, ha)
Shorter version of what I just said: "Hey, they fought & died for our RIGHT to plaster and deface their monument/memorial/statuary with our signs, spray paint, etc."
My ans? No they didn't...and anyway, how do you KNOW?
Mark 10:25
Jesus said, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
I also think Jesus despised drummers, particularly those who reek of patchouli oil. I'm with him on that. I mean can that protest cliche please die. I'm with the union folks, but that incessant drumming is just annoying to 90% of the people on Earth.
The demonstrators are opportunistic, attention whore pigs.
How quickly things change. After 9/11 the right wrapped themselves in the Flag, and worshipped the ground cops and firefighters walked on. Now they're pigs and parasites. Just goes to show you, yet again, you can never trust a conservative. On anything.
Tax the rich? That always seems to be the response of the Left. So, with that in mind:
1)What determines "rich"? 5 mil, 1 mil, 500K, 250K, 100K?
2)Who decides who's "rich"? Feds, state, local, your neighbors?
3)How much to tax? 50%, 75%, 99%?
4)What will be done with the revenue? Infrastructure upkeep, local services (police, fire, etc), welfare?
I can answer this. Let me put on my 'progressive hat' first...
'The Rich' are anyone who makes more than I do. They should be taxed until they don't make more than I do. Use the money to make sure that I never have any difficulties in my life all ever, and I can have all the cool things my neighbor has without having to work for it. Cuz, in the Bible Jesus said "Give me your shit, Cake-eater" or something.
fls - did you really just invoke your family to give "their" blessing to the way the memorial was treated, and then ask: What war did Meade fight in, again?
Do you mean to tell us what war you fought in?
Or ask what war Meade's relatives fought in?
Divide and conquer is an antiunion strategy.
Oh, it is not. Union workers are more than happy to divide and conquer non-union workers or companies.
Look how happy they are to have *other* people do without so they don't lose anything.
How quickly things change. After 9/11 the right wrapped themselves in the Flag, and worshipped the ground cops and firefighters walked on. Now they're pigs and parasites. Just goes to show you, yet again, you can never trust a conservative. On anything.
I'm not seeing cops and fireman crashing in the rotunda, trashing the place, and acting like complete self-absorbed selfish spoiled brats, are you?
wv: reamitin. You taxpayers best be reamitin your money to us public sector employees, or we'll stop bathing and start drumming
Garage,
Don't dare compare the 9/11 heroes to the pigs who are trashing your capital. Pathetic.
Divide and conquer is an antiunion strategy.
OK, then. Add the National Taxpayers' Union to the mix and we'll all be on the same page.
Don't dare compare the 9/11 heroes to the pigs who are trashing your capital. Pathetic.
Firefighters have been one of the most visible and vocal presence at the Capitol, around it, and inside it. Many are sleeping in the Capitol. A police group is sleeping there tonight.Still want to go with "pigs" at the Capitol?
The gang of 14 were elected to the legislature. Then when democracy got too tough for them they took their football and left the state. I hope and pray the Republican's don't cave.
As another poster earlier noted, California (my state) will shortly go under. There's nothing that can be done about it, given the politics of the people who control government here, but as we sink beneath the wave of history into socialism, bankruptcy and welfare-state-itis, it still would be nice to know that somewhere in America there are politicians ready and willing to do the right thing.
A police group is sleeping there tonight.Still want to go with "pigs" at the Capitol?
I don't know about anyone else, but I find that pretty funny.
The rich man walked away from Jesus, because he valued his wealth and comfort more than serving Christ.
Seeking a comfortable life can come in many forms - it doesn't even have to involve great wealth. But it's hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom because he doesn't think he needs anything more.
Paul said that he would work for his bread, and that if those among him didn't work, they wouldn't eat.
Being willing to share is evidence of the change in one's heart, but forcing someone else to share at the point of a gun has no spiritual value whatsoever.
shiloh: Your welcome
Bullshit. You never served. You're a poser.
No one party/entity has a monopoly on patriotism as much as Bush43/Cheney tried to divide the country ie You're either w/us or against us nonsense.
And an idiot. Bush directed that comment toward nation-states, not people, not Americans.
Spoiled, petulant, arrogant children.
“Law enforcement officers know the difference between right and wrong, and
Governor Walker’s attempt to eliminate the collective voice of Wisconsin’s
devoted public employees is wrong,” continued Palmer. “That is why we have
stood with our fellow employees each day and why we will be sleeping among
them tonight.” Link
Good for them, Garage, but it appears they are doing it while off-duty and not when they are supposed to be working unlike the teachers.
(The Crypto Jew)
So I'm confused you HAVE to be a veteran to protest or comment on public policy, now?
So Meade's out because he didn't fight in no war(s)...but the patchouli oil brigade, they're OK, because...???....What war did they serve in?
I mean just give a simple standard, I'm a dumb ole Conservative...service necessary, yes or no?
Shiloh, if you believe that, why did you quote the beatitudes?
Are you that cynical? Or was it for the irony?
I'm trying to understand the point of it.
The Bible can be interpreted different ways, but not every way is as equal or as informed or as interested in trying to get at what Jesus was trying to get at.
A little like my quote above suggests.
So, I'm curious about your reasoning. Were you just tossing out a passage without any intent? Why then direct it at Althouse?
Did you have a meaning or was it just a tactic for another goal?
Were you trying to use Scripture the same way the protesters were using the memorial? Making a unrelated point off the back of other people's values?
I'm really curious.
These protests are completely about greed and power. The public unions have a system where they can soak the taxpayers, including the middle class they pretend so much to care about, for all they can get. Now that they've take too much and those taxpayers elected someone to put a stop to it they're crying, "Foul!"
Unions have a long history of thuggery and violence. I just caught the end of "On the Waterfront" (1954) with Marlon Brando. imdb.com description: "An ex-prize fighter turned longshoreman struggles to stand up to his corrupt union bosses." Sure , it's not a true story but it's a story of the times, like Dickens' writings.
Anybody remember the Joseph Yablonski murders? "On December 31, 1969, three hitmen shot Yablonski, his wife Margaret, and his 25-year-old daughter Charlotte, as they slept in the Yablonski home in Clarksville, Pennsylvania. The bodies were discovered on January 5, 1970, by Yablonski's son, Kenneth. The killings had been ordered by Boyle, who had demanded Yablonski's death on June 23, 1969, after a meeting with Yablonski at UMWA headquarters degenerated into a screaming match. In September 1969, UMWA executive council member Albert Pass received $20,000 from Boyle (who had embezzled the money from union funds) to hire gunmen to kill Yablonski."
Of course, there's Jimmy Hoffa.
Claiming unions represent freedom, the middle class, excellence in education, all that is goodness and light is the height of absurdity. Quite the opposite in most cases. The unions protesting today represent at least five of the seven deadly sins: as anger, greed, sloth, pride, and envy.
but the patchouli oil brigade, they're OK, because...???....What war did they serve in?
They've been fighting poverty, war, and injustice unlike the rest of you squares...
... or something.
/apologies to Tom Lehrer
Federal employees can't bargain for wages or benefits...why should state, county, and city workers have the ability to do that? Who represents the taxpayers at the negotiating table?
All the WW II vets in my family were union men.
None of the WW II vets in my family were. Not my father, the only WW II vet closely related. Nor, the man next door who also fought in Iwo Jima. Nor, my sister's father-in-law who was captured by the Germans at the Rapido River. Nor, my past landlord who had his leg blown off at the Rapido River. Nor, my high school friend's father, who also fought the Germans. Etc, etc.
We could play this game forever. But, I suspect I'm older than you and knew a lot more WW II vets than you and a lot more Vietnam vets. Plus, I have a nephew in Afghanistan right now and another who graduated from West Point last year and will be going to Afghanistan. No union members in their families either.
after watching the whole video, i have to say I empathize with the protesters here even though I don't agree with them on the issue of the day.
War memorials are not on their radar. That is a bad thing, but it is indicative of their youth and lack of perspective. Yes, it hurts their argument but I can kind of forgive people of the age being interviewed here.
And all the crap is taped to the rear of the memorial. Maybe that is a meaningless distinction to many but I'd say it actually indicates they did have some sensitivity to try not to disturb the perceived aesthetics of the memorial.
So yeah, this was a poor and stupid spot to camp out at. But, eve as someone who things they are stupid and wrong on the issue at play, I find it hard to get super worked up about it the way Meade is.
Who represents the taxpayers at the negotiating table?
People elected with union dues. Why do you ask?
"I find it hard to get super worked up about it the way Meade is."
Not me. My FIL fought in Korea. He thought even the MASH TV show was too disrespectful for his daughters to watch.
So getting worked up depends on proximity, I expect.
Garage,
I have no idea if fire fighters and policemen are among the most vocal groups in Madison, and I doubt that you do either. The media show mostly punks and pud knockers--I'll stick with pigs. The police and firemen that I know wouldn't traffic with such idiots, scum and misguided children.
AlanH said...
Who represents the taxpayers at the negotiating table?
Indeed. And at the Federal level, who will represent the taxpayer when unionized federal workers have to go up against the likes of Barack Obama?
Seems like we're on a collusion course to me.
Third picture down, is that a real, live Black person? I didn't know you had them in Wisconsin.
Welcome to the Entitlement Mentality - All that matters is what I want; not the sacrifices of soldiers and sailors, not the tax dollars of all the people.
Just me. I am the change I've been waiting for.
Ann Althouse said...
The video includes a protester telling me that Meade and I are the first — "literally the first" — persons to object to their treatment of the memorial.
And like Abu Ben Adhem, you and Meade will lead all the rest.
shiloh said...
Speaking as a veteran, Americans have fought and died defending the U.S. Constitution ie (((freedom of speech/assembly))) for over 200 years ...
America was borne out of revolution which can be a very messy business
Messy does not mean acting like a herd(?) of pigs. And no one is stopping them from speaking.
But that does not give them the right to treat a public place like a barnyard.
One thing that is great about the Bible ~ it can be interpreted (((every which way to Sunday))) depending on one's political agenda, eh.
Of course, another living document, just like the Constitution. When it says something we don't like, we stretch it another way until it does.
Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up. Budget deficits gone. Easy.
Yeah that worked out so well in the UK.
The rich are mobile and at some point they leave, just as rich Britons fled. Then what?
More on signs and hypocracy.
I have no idea if fire fighters and policemen are among the most vocal groups in Madison, and I doubt that you do either.
I saw cops and firefighters tonight with my own eyes. This must have occurred right after we left:
Hundreds of cops join protest
Wow.
Doctrine through wishful thinking.
No wonder liberal causes don't do well with religious people.
After 9/11 the right wrapped themselves in the Flag, and worshipped the ground cops and firefighters walked on.
So you're equating a teacher's union protest over fat benefits during a recession with hundreds of police and firefighters dying while trying to save others?
This is the left folks, they cheapen everything and value nothing.
Garage,
That link demeans you--a tree huggin' liberal b-girl from San Francisco? Damn.
So you're equating a teacher's union protest over fat benefits during a recession with hundreds of police and firefighters dying while trying to save others?
It's not just teachers. I don't think you get it. A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next. We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.
One thing looking at these signs makes clear:
These idiots think they're fighting corporations.
Earth to protesters! Earth to protesters:
You're fighting us - and that's why we're against you.
Hey thanks for the link garage. I guess there'll be no more donations to the policeman's balls for a while at my end. Yeah I know I'm in California and they're in Wisconsin, but this thing is spreading like a contagion.
Ill will blows a chill.
AlanH said...
Who represents the taxpayers at the negotiating table?
Democrats buy public union votes and activism with taxpayer money. They certainly do not represent the taxpayer.
but this thing is spreading like a contagion.
I don't think this is going to plan for Republicans, picking a nationwide fight with every union member in America, no.
It's not just teachers. I don't think you get it. A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next. We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.
I suppose the cops could help raise taxes at gunpoint if that's what you really think the solution should be. The firemen could standby by and let a Reichstag or two burn down.
_________________
wv = "indett" That's the problem, in a nutshell.
garage mahal,
I don't think this is going to plan for Republicans, picking a nationwide fight with every union member in America, no.
It looks GREAT from where I sit. Especially because your side looks both arrogant and stupid.
Sorry, G, but you're going down - and you're making it so you can't get up.
Bullshit. You never served. You're a poser.
hmm, normally try to avoid masterbaters like Fen ;)
Enlisted for (4) years. Delayed entry Aug. 1976 'cause the old G.I. bill expired Dec. 31, 1976.
Aviation Electrician school Millington, TN 1977 "we" called it 'Buford Pusser' country ie redneckville, USA they still had Sambo restaurants there. After school NAS Norfolk, HSL-34, helicopter squadron. We had (8) detachments which detached to small ships:
Was never ship's company as we only detached and went back to our squadron after the cruise.
First cruise, African/S. American Jan. 16 to April 4, 1978 on the Spruance DD-963. Became a shellback on my first cruise as we crossed the equator at 00 latitude/longitude, Greenwich Meridian on Feb. 14, Valentine's Day. My first port Casablanca, Morocco ~ nothing like the movie lol
Ports Casablanca, Dakar, Senegal, Monrovia, Liberia, Libreville, Gabon, Tema, Ghana where the mini-series 'Roots' originated.
Crossed the Atlantic, Salvador, Brazil, Rio de Janeiro March 10 to 17, back to Salvador, Barbados then home. Show the flag cruise (80) days in port half the time and (1) week in Rio. :)
While at HSL-34 also served on Comte de Grasse DD-974, Briscoe DD-977, Stump DD-978, FF-1097 Moinster and FF-1056 Connole.
The Briscoe is the ship JFK, Jr. his wife and her sister were buried at sea on.
(2) Med cruises, (1) N. Atlantic.
Changed my rate to Data Systems Technician ~ Computer school Vallejo, CA "Mare Island" 1981/82. Was on my (5th) extension when I re-enlisted for (6) years and got a rather large signing bonus. Was lucky I got lump sum, 'cause right after I re-enlisted the military started to pro-rate signing bonuses.
Shore Duty, Dam Neck, VA. They had a Seal Team stationed there. Could always tell they were Seals 'cause some of them had long hair. There was also a pig farm in the area ;)
Sea Duty, U.S.S. Saratoga, ship's company, Mayport, FL 1985/1988. (2) more Med cruises. '85/'86 (8) mo. Med/Indian Ocean cruise ~ Achille Lauro incident for those of you who remember Leon Klinghoffer in a wheelchair being killed by terrorists. The Sara was linking w/the U.S.S. Yorktown's radar and was tracking every aircraft in the Mediterranean.
>
Sara going thru the Suez Canal.
>
btw, 'Top Gun' was too funny during the final crisis incident when they launched (2) F-14s as had it been an actual crisis situation, every frickin' fighter and attack aircraft would have been in the air and no Virginia, catapults on a carrier are never, ever down. The Sara was one of the oldest carriers, decommissioned in the mid '90s and none of the operational (3) catapults were ever down for maintenance at sea.
Young, single and in the navy :)
Did I mention there's no place like Rio ...
>
Fen, is (5) time Vietnam War deferment Cheney one of your heroes ?!?
take care
Anchors Aweigh!
It's not just teachers. I don't think you get it. A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next. We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.
In other words, it's like I said:
The Dems don't understand the difference between public and private - and those that do are keeping quiet to exploit the collective fear.
That's dirty - and is evidence of how these assholes play the game.
They deserve to go for that alone.
hmm, normally try to avoid masterbaters like Fen
That would have been punnier had you written "masterbaiter".
Sigh
Sorry, G, but you're going down - and you're making it so you can't get up.
I don't think so. Not this time. Republicans way overreached.
Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up.
You're talking about a wealth tax. Those are constitutionally forbidden; a direct tax must either be on income, or per capita.
Budget deficits gone. Easy.
Sure. Just because wholesale confiscation of wealth has collapsed the economy of every country that tried it is no reason why it wouldn't work here. :)
former law student @ 8:48pm:
"All the WW II vets in my family were union men. My FIL the marine sat down at Dodge Main in 1937. My MIL's brother fought on Iwo Jima. Honoring labor honors those brave men. They would not mind any labor signs on the memorial meant to honor them.
"What war did Meade fight in, again? "
Isn't it lovely of you to use your family members' service to give you absolute moral authority so that you may question Meade?
Since you didn't serve either I question your standing on the shoulders of better men to make pronouncements in their stead. You're a [insert a long string of expletives here] and I'm sure a miserable human being.
I don't think so. Not this time. Republicans way overreached.
Tell that one to to the people who get laid off.
I don't think this is going to plan for Republicans, picking a nationwide fight with every union member in America, no.
There aren't that many, and they almost always vote for Democrats.
Picking a fight with unions is about as dangerous for Republicans as picking a fight with the religious right is for Democrats.
Tell that one to to the people who get laid off.
The amusing thing is that the people getting laid off will be Democratic voters.
Not a lot of Republicans in the Wisconsin bureaucracy.
Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up. Budget deficits gone. Easy
And then, rich gone, and you're worse off than before.
@garage: This bill passed in the house didn't it? So all that has to happen is for the democrat senators to stop holing up (snicker) in those expensive out-of-state hotels and vote on this, right?
man I sure hope the costs of their little hiatus get fully vetted and outed. Better would be if the WEA secretly footed the bill and then gets outed.
Could one of the union supporters please answer the following queries:
Why is it legitimate to force somebody to join a union and pay dues just to gain employment?
Why should the opportunities of those who do not wish to join a union be diminished in such a way?
Thanks in advance.
Hmmm...
I thought shiloh/PB&J said he served on the Shiloh, hence the name...
A lot of private sector unions are joining, because they know they're next
And?
Unions comprise 7% of the private sector workforce -- less, when you consider that the American auto industry is not publicly owned.
I guess they could go on strike... in the middle of a recession... with millions of unemployed Americans who would cheerfully do their jobs for a lot less... but I can't say I'd recommend it.
The latest Pew poll of American attitudes towards unions found that a plurality of swing voters had an unfavorable opinion of them -- 46% unfavorable to 41% favorable. Negative views towards unions also correlated with increased likelihood of voting.
Times are tough, at least for people who don't live off the government tit. If you want to choose this moment to pit non-union Americans against unionized ones... hell, BRING IT.
I watched the Poliwood episode talking about strikes in Hollywood and how unions formed to address legitimate grievances drove film production right out of California due to mission creep.
But "essential" services can't be driven out, no matter how much mission creep. There is no end to the taxpayer and local governments simply having to take it.
"Hollywood" is almost a metaphor for any film or television production in America since it's become so dispersed. Worse, it's moving out of the country altogether. Detroit and Flint are ghost towns, but unions can congratulate themselves that they held firm.
There is a balance that happens with industry. There are natural limitations and consequences. When the bills can't be paid the business, the corporation, folds. The goose dies.
What are those balance points with government? Schools? Police? Emergency and essential services?
When does the police department close it's doors? When does the state Dept. of Education sell off remaining assets and turn out the lights?
@garage:
I don't think so. Not this time. Republicans way overreached.
How so? Union membership is minuscule in the United States. ~12%, I believe is the national average. Out of those members, how many are going to vote Republican anyway?
I think it's finally getting through to Republicans that it really doesn't pay to cater to tiny, but loud, groups. Unions are dying; why should Republicans get in the way of that? Why should they support - in any way - groups that are inimical to their beliefs and policies?
The Republicans have not overreached. If anything, their approach has been too restrained. They've been playing by the rules in a game that has no rules. I really think they should take the gloves off already.
shiloh: Delayed entry Aug. 1976
That doesn't follow. You'd be almost 60 years old by now, but your conversations here don't reflect the life experience or wisdom possessed by a man of that age. Especially one with a military background.
Garage mahal said...
We sat next to a table of machinist union members from IL that drove up for tomorrows rally.
Yeah, Wisconsinites ♥ FIP's
That's gonna backfire pretty quick. Just watch.
The people in these pics and video are basically kids. THey didn't grow up with any exposure to the military probably. They are clueless about this stuff. THey are, obviously, wrong but really... I can't even blame them. THey are too young to know better. You can see it in their eyes how they just - dont - get - what the big deal is. THey are focuses on INTENT and they didn't mean any offense. It doesn't register with them that their intent is not necessarily that important, and it's their ignorance that comes across.
This is a great example of how clueless these folks are. But mostly I just feel bad for them as they try and respond to the inquisition they find themselves in. It reminds me of being a college sophomore and taking a 300-level philosophy class.
THey will either figure it out... or decide to revel in these days at the Capitol for the rest of their lives.
Actually the U.S.S. Shiloh was a Ticonderoga (CG 47) - Class like the U.S.S. Yorktown, second in its class, which was w/the Sara in the Med during the Achille Lauro incident.
Ships named after famous American battles.
My 1st ship, Spruance, a destroyer, was the first of its class named after famous Admirals. "We" called it the 1st and the worst ;) er 1st and the finest! The Comte de Grasse was named after a French Admiral which helped America during the Revolutionary War.
Gasp, an American ship named after a Frenchman!
The Yorktown had the latest, top of the line, Aegis computer/radar, 3,000 mile radius, system which is why the Sara was linking w/it to track every aircraft in the Med.
Our original cruise schedule was (6) mos. in the Indian Ocean, maybe Mombasa, Kenya for Christmas, but after the Achille Lauro incident we were #1 on the hit parade and went to Singapore for Christmas/New Years and the Dallas Cowboy's Cheerleaders U.S.O. show visited the Sara while we were at sea.
Thank you terrorists! :)
Looking on the bright side, at least Fen didn't call me a poser in his latest reply as he tries to do the math ...
@Fen: It's because he's lying. Like those anti-war vets the Times kept interviewing before they discovered they were actually sociopaths who read a few biographies and adopted the mannerisms and tics of real vets vicariously through those books. I think four or five were eventually exposed for what they were. Creepy stuff.
Shiloh: at least Fen didn't call me a poser in his latest reply as he tries to do the math
Uhm no. I'm still calling you a poser.
Post your DD214.
In truth, Jesus said, "For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always."
The left is always corrupting the words of Jesus to meet their own desires.
The 8th Commandment says, "Thou shalt not steal". Taxing the rich to take care of the poor is stealing.
When are these liars and bums going to move out of the WI State House? When are the fleebaggers going to do their job? Just like their desecration of the war memorial in that building, their protests are damaging their own cause. Me thinks they do protesteth too much.
DADvocate: Claiming unions represent freedom, the middle class, excellence in education, all that is goodness and light is the height of absurdity.
Especially considering the work product of the Teachers Union on display over the last week. If that's an education, the people of Wisconsin deserve a refund.
Uhm yes Fen, you didn't call me a poser in that reply, reading comprehension problems notwithstanding.
DD214 lol co-incidentally I have (2) because you receive an Honorable Discharge before you re-enlist. Interesting after I graduated Data Systems Tech A school, many in my class suggested I not re-enlist and screw the navy because that's when you re-enlist for (6) years and go to 'C' school, but I wouldn't have got my signing bonus, big drawback, eh.
Also have my ASVAB scores and ironically my lowest score was EI electrical information, so naturally I became an aviation electrician, although pretty much aced the rest of the test, scoring 98 percentile overall. They wanted me to go Nuke, but they want everyone w/a high score to go nuclear program 'cause of the high attrition rate, but that was a (6) year deal and as Bush41 would say, didn't seem prudent ;) at the time.
If I had to do it all over, probably would have picked Cryptologic Tech.
>
One score Fen did very poorly on was AD er attention to detail ...
>
As an aside, many try to switch their state of record to FL, TX, CT etc. ie a state which doesn't have a state income tax before they receive the signing bonus. If memory serves paid OH $700 in state tax on my bonus.
Shiloh: Uhm yes Fen, you didn't call me a poser in that reply, reading comprehension problems notwithstanding.
I know I used big words, read it again more slowly:
"That doesn't follow. You'd be almost 60 years old by now, but your conversations here don't reflect the life experience or wisdom possessed by a man of that age. Especially one with a military background."
ie. I'm still calling you a poser.
shiloh: blah. blah blah. blah
I ask for your DD214 and you just keep repeating the anecdotes of a military profile.
Fen, your continual deflections/childish ad hominems notwithstanding, I'm just amusing myself by chatting w/you as otherwise it would be a total waste of my time, eh.
take care
FWIW, Le Comte de Grasse commanded the French fleet that boxed in Cornwallis at Yorktown. Perfectly sensible to name a ship after him.
Especially since Ernie King isn't COMINCH.
PS Somewhere I though shiloh/PB&J said he served during the 'Nam era.
PPS I'm sure it's happened, but one would expect not too many America-haters enlisted once the draft ended
Professor- I am surprised, by now, that most protestors fail to recognize you and run away before you can make them look and sound like dopes.
"garage mahal said...
Tax the rich? That always seems to be the response of the Left. So, with that in mind:
1)What determines "rich"? 5 mil, 1 mil, 500K, 250K, 100K?
Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up. Budget deficits gone. Easy."
And garage proves he's ignorant as well as hateful. You could tax those making $1m or more at 100% and the budget deficit wouldn't be closed.
Seriously, doesn't anyone on the left think?
"Sure. tax the rich. Say, 1 million per year on up. Budget deficits gone. Easy."
New York tried it and Rush and Tom Galisano just moved out. I guess living here wasn't worth thousands of dollars more per day. Easy for them.
NY never did get that extra revenue.
" ... give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
Is this message unclear? Doesn't seem so to me.
Since your money doesn't belong to Caesar, Jesus was very clearly saying that you should never voluntarily pay Caesar.
Caesar is a fucking thief. If Caesar takes the money, turn the other cheek, but never, ever volunteer.
Jack up your W-4 exemptions, and file a return.
But. Just. Don't. Pay.
The mere fact that this "union activity" is occurring inside the Capitol instead of on the streets or in front of a private sector workplace is telling.
It's telling me that it's cold out.
That doesn't follow. You'd be almost 60 years old by now, but your conversations here don't reflect the life experience or wisdom possessed by a man of that age. Especially one with a military background.
To say the list.
Watching this shitbrain claim to have been in the military is sad.
It's telling me that it's cold out.
Heh. That too.
I am really really confused.
Whose side are you on, really?
What gives them the right to turn the Capitol into a leftwing convention hall?
That is an area of memorials, in the same way a cemetery is a place of memorials. It's not a place for them to set up booths to distribute anarchist/left-wing recruitment materials. Rent a hall somewhere if you want to do that.
And who do they think is going to pick up their literature anyway? Other left-wingers, of course. But they already know all that crap...they have the same slogans on the pamphlets and handouts and THEIR booth a couple of pillars over.
Basically the whole thing is a left-wing masturbation session where they can party for a few days and get away from Mom and Dad asking questions about when they're going to think about getting a job and moving out of the basement. They don't like thinking about that because their political science/women's studies double major isn't turning out to be the job magnet they'd hoped.
MnMark, the Capitol is the seat of Government more than a place of Memorials. If you have a problem with what the Government is doing, what better place than the Capitol to protest?
By all means, protest - with a little respect for the space that belongs to everyone.
Walk around outside with your signs.
Don't camp inside, breaking the rules about when the places closes, and turning it into a convention hall complete with jury-rigged kiosks and taped up banners.
You're not that special or important. You can follow the rules like everyone else and have a little respect for the common space.
AMEN, Mn Mark!
It's all of our house -- and some of us are sickened to see Jesus and our soldiers (not to mention the beautiful green marble!) used /abused in such a way.
Particularly because -- in ordinary times -- these are probably the exact same group of people who would be casting doubts upon religion and the military...
I'd like to congratulate Ann for covering this abomination of a scandalous dereliction of duty by the flee-bag 14 so well. The hippies are disgracing themselves and Americans with a triple-digit IQ are disgusted with the stupidity in the face of a fiscal collapse --- both in Wisconsin and in DC.
Hey, look! It's the big Saturday rally, and they finally brought the puppets.
I agree with the poster who said the Tea Partiers were not permitted in, except for a few. That the union members are being allowed to treat the capitol like a KOA is absurd.
Shiloh, thank you for your service. What was your GT score, bub?
You're not that special or important. You can follow the rules like everyone else and have a little respect for the common space.
Well said. Its an Army of Lindsay Lohans.
But I will bet they leave the building neat as a pin.
I'll take that bet. They're tired, non-native, low on carbs, blinded by their tunnel-vision.
But I hope you're right.
deborah
AR 70 + WK 69 = GT 139
Took the test summer '76. Lordstown, OH near an auto plant, GM I think which is probably no longer there. Remember it was a very hot, humid day and there was no air conditioning!
It wasn't a very difficult test. The (2) areas I had trouble were mechanical/electrical. My EI was 55.
Didn't know at the time they had ASVAB practice tests for dummies lol.
1984 had home town recruiting duty in Ravenna, OH ~ basically it was (2) weeks free vacation :) and one of my jobs was driving recruits to the testing center in Akron 'cause the navy found out some recruits were having their buddies take the test for them to attain a higher score.
Impersonating a recruit lol.
btw, took me (30) minutes to find my ASVAB scores, that's 30 minutes I'll never get back ...
take care
Good points, Fen, but I'll take that bet.
Hello, fellow NE Ohioan (now elsewhere)...I think I entered Delayed Entry in maybe February '76. Too lazy to find the test scores, but I do remember my GT was 130...you beat me, swabbie :)
Further proof that leftards are nothing more than camping cockroaches. You leftards are nothing but disgusting people. You respect nothing but yourselves. filth.
That the police will side with protestors over the people is reason enough to kill public unis.
How is it that people can act like these workers are somehow not the people?
Does working for the government suddenly revoke your US Citizenship? Does it mean that you are incapable of ever "producing" just because you work for government? There's a lot of sentiment here that really seems to imply a lot of people here would like to just take all government workers out back behind the woodshed and put a bullet between their eyes. That strikes me as strikingly ignorant if you can't ever believe in Government doing anything good, you might as well move to Somalia at that rate. Now Somalia, there's a conservative paradise! :p
What defines a person, what defines a producer. Where is the substance to any of this? It seems like a lot of people upset for the same things their own party was doing much more rampantly over the last two years in the U.S. Senate.
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