And here's a picture I took today:
I asked the woman if she thought Scott Walker was like Hitler, and she said "Yes." So I said, "Are you saying that you think fascism could come to America," and she said, "It's what's happening."
February 17, 2011
After all those efforts to paint Tea Partiers as using violent images and rhetoric, these pictures from Madison have got to hurt.
The Wisconsin GOP made a nice montage:
And here's a picture I took today:
I asked the woman if she thought Scott Walker was like Hitler, and she said "Yes." So I said, "Are you saying that you think fascism could come to America," and she said, "It's what's happening."
And here's a picture I took today:
I asked the woman if she thought Scott Walker was like Hitler, and she said "Yes." So I said, "Are you saying that you think fascism could come to America," and she said, "It's what's happening."
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170 comments:
Shouldn't teachers be smarter than to make simplistic Hitler comparisons?
Madison has been Godwined.
She's got a very slippery idea of the definition of fascism. A democratically-elected majority voting for and passing a measure to reign in the unsustainable public employee union is fascist?
Your follow-up question should have been, "Is it fascism or is it the drumbeat of democracy".
The pictures on Drudge are starting to look bad. I hope Meadehouse is staying safe. If the Dems are running from the state, they might know the violence is about to start.
Althouse-
Did you know you have major traffic coming from Drudge?
Cognitive dissonance is deafening.
"The dark night of fascism is always descending in the United States and yet lands only in Europe" -- Tom Wolfe, "The Intelligent Coed's Guide to America" (~1976)
Ha!
I found the link at Drudge.
It's for Meade's report-the newbie.
Are you lamenting the fact that you don't live in the Condo just off the Square now?
Nice Photoshop work. Was that done on a government printer?
Here's some more hitler comparisons:
Awwww, can we expect another month of "tut-tutting" about violent imagery from the Democrat Party?
Of course not. Without the threats of violence and the use of hateful imagery there would be no Democrat Party.
"Shouldn't teachers be smarter than to make simplistic Hitler comparisons?"
You would think so.
'Day of Rage' Hits Wisconsin...
Thousands pack Capitol rotunda...
VIDEO...
New Gov. takes on State Employees Drudge headlines:
Unions...
Compared to Hitler...
Madison schools, others closed amid call for demonstrations...
1,100 teachers call in 'sick'...
Obama: 'Assault'...
RYAN: 'Like Cairo Moved To Madison'...
PAPER: 'Unions want to overturn election result'...
Police searching for Senate Dems avoiding union vote...
GOP SEN: They got on a bus and left the state!
Protesters, supporters clash in Ohio over union bill...
Police searching for Senate Dems? Quote from the article: "In a telephone interview, Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) declined to give his location..."I can tell you this - we're not all in one place," Miller said."
Wow.
The left are master projectionists. They're so good at it they don't even realize they're doing it.
This should be strongly denounced. It's idiotic, wrong, and most importantly, shames the suffering of millions of innocents.
Seven: Thanks for the Wolfe quote. Very study observation, still useful after all these years.
I actually think Meade should have played along.
Unfortunately it looks like he couldn't hide his contempt.
I think he should have made her learn him more...ha.
You have to let them have enough rope...
The governor messed up when he didn't propose this plan a week earlier. It was in the single digits this time last week. The hothouse flowers (who will get bored with this real quick) would not have shown up at all.
(The Crypto Jew)
And (The Crypto Jew)
Ankur, as you seem to non-native, mayhap you missed the period Nov 2000, until January 2009. IF using “Hitler” is somehow bad, the Democrats have about an 8 year head start on the TEA Party. But thank you for contributing.
Indeed. Seven's quote made me grin and nod my head at the same time.
w.v brompaul
DRUDGE TO ALTHOUSE!!
I can only hope to God she teaches Math or Home Ec. If she teaches History, Social Studies or Western Civ she should be fired on the spot.
What is this, Dose?
@ankur: I'll see your Hitler and raise you 1. link.
Classy - civility for thee, but not for me!
What next? Burn the Wisconsin state flag and #2 pencils...
Fascism comes from the left not the right. Hitler was from a socialist party. The tactics of fascism have come from the unions and the leftists. Learn your history people.
Joe - I didn't miss it. I am sure we can find even older examples. Clinton, anyone? Oh yeah!
here
Ah, I wasn't clear seven. I thought the last sentence might give away that using nazi symbolism (or hitler) in situations where it is clearly in appropriate is damn shameful.
As an aside, I am saddened that people focus on this (on both sides). They have a legitimate claim [see my posts on the prior althouse post]. They weaken it here.
The guys at Powerline are reporting that the Democrat's State Senate leader just called in to CNN and wouldn't say where they're hiding - hiding so they can bring democracy to a halt in Wisconsin. They're afraid they might lose a vote, so they're taking the ball and leaving.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2011/02/028391.php
All this democracy shit is giving the Democrats a case of the howling fantods.
and I am sure, you, in turn, can find some democrats calling reagan "hitler" - we can go back and forth for ever (until close to 1945 anyway).
That is the point I am making. People who make hitler comparisons are idiots...and exist across every political stripe.
DRUDGE TO ALTHOUSE!!
And this headspinner from our new head headspinner;
White House press secretary Jay Carney says the Recovery Act added several million jobs and lowered the unemployment rate. According to Carney, the "goals" of the stimulus package "have been met."
A reporter asked Carney why unemployment is at 9% and not 7%, the percentage projected if the stimulus worked. Carney dismissed the question. "We've said repeatedly that we don't want to relitigate the battles of the past," Carney told the reporter.
Uh...mmm...what?
Ankur. that image was photoshoped to hide that is was a black LaRouche democrat holding that sign.
Police searching for Senate Dems? Quote from the article: "In a telephone interview, Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller (D-Monona) declined to give his location..."I can tell you this - we're not all in one place," Miller said."
Wow.
This reminds me of when they walked out a couple of months ago from the Pennsylvania House and Senate.
What doesn't get reported is not only did the Democrats get slaughtered in the governor races but they got annihilated in the down ticket state house and senate races.
Democrats had control of the Pennsylvania House for years-and the minute they lost it-they staged a yelling-and-screaming walk out.
Actually one of the biggest swings, it was actually astounding was in the state races of Wisconsin.
and I am sure, you, in turn, can find some democrats calling reagan "hitler" - we can go back and forth for ever (until close to 1945 anyway).
I've heard people compare Bismarck to Hitler.
Oh, yeah. These placard-waving subnorms are absolutely essential and irreplaceable.
Uh-huh.
Absolutely.
Keep licking those GOP boots A-House. Some nice pats on the head from the GOP forthcoming soon!
I'm just curious how this new Wiscy innovation -- 'duck and run for cover democracy' -- conforms with the oath of office they took.
I couldn't find their oath on-line, but it's hard to imagine that this behavior is consistent.
Democracy for me, but not for thee, etc.
Ankur,
But only 1 side of the political spectrum made the concern over "civility" a big deal.
I have to wonder, how many of the protesters believe that Palin was responsible for the shooting in Tucson?
Comparing people you don't like to Hitler is one of the things that white people like: http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/06/25/winner-4/
I heard there is a high percentage of white folks in Madison, and the gov is someone they don't like very much right now...so I guess it stands to reason.....
Ah.... the "Hilter abolished Unions and that is what Walker is doing today" talking point has been very nicely memorized by the collective.
I wonder....do they get a book of talking points issued all at one time. Do they have practice sessions?
Do they really think that we are so stupid that we can't see right through them?
has anyone even read "the rise and fall of the third Reich".
the mere fact that you can make this derisive comment is proof enough that this is not Nazi Germany.
the nazis would have you carted off immediately then beaten and then imprisoned.
the irony is the poor education provided by these teachers is probably the reason they do not know any better.
What is most frightening about this is many (most of?)these people are teachers. So not only are they incapable of balanced views of opposing ideals, but they are they are blatantly dishonest.
Teachers faking sick in order to protest? Way to teach your students that you can fake sick/lie, etc. to get what you really want.
Don't expect to have the moral high ground with your students in the future. And thanks for teaching the next generation of America you should lie to get out of work when it suits your business.
People are worried that Wisconsin will become more like Texas, once it becomes a right-to-work state. You know..Texas... that place where 75% of all new jobs in the last decade have been created?
I am all for civility in actual debate, but uncivility when protesting to make a point colorfully.
Short of violent ideation, of course.
Keep licking those GOP boots A-House. Some nice pats on the head from the GOP forthcoming soon!
But are they jackboots Garage?
Piss us a river six figures wide!
"Keep licking those GOP boots A-House. Some nice pats on the head from the GOP forthcoming soon!
Translation: I have nothing to refute what you've posted, so shut up, Ann!!!
A comment, lifted:
"These people are the ones teaching the children? Nice.
This really makes me want to forgo my own retirement in order to finance theirs.
Fire them all."
Could not agree more.
What a shame - it didn't need to go there. A good lesson in humility, though - in some aspects we're not as different as we'd like to think.
Oh ya....
Here are the numbers:
Wisconsin State Assembly
Democratic Party 50/after election 38
Republican Party 45/after election 60
[source:ballotpedia]
Yes, the same texas
Shouldn't teachers be smarter than to make simplistic Hitler comparisons?
They've been bullet-proof for so long, they have forgotten how to be responsible for what they say and do. These are people who took a "sick day" then went to protest in front of cameras.
Well, to be fair, the Governor did send the police to go door to door, searching for a group of people based on their political affiliation, and demand they be handcuffed and delivered to a chamber...
And, I would think the Republicans would be DEFENDING the use of these hateful signs, since they saw no problem with the tea party's use of them and came to their defense before the 2010 elections. Unless...you're guilty of a double standard, which would also make the Dems guilty of a double standard...oh, man..I have a headache.
Keep licking those GOP boots A-House. Some nice pats on the head from the GOP forthcoming soon!
Internet temper tantrum.
"This should be strongly denounced. It's idiotic, wrong, and most importantly, shames the suffering of millions of innocents."
Democrats hate the Jews. they don't mind trampling on the memory of Anne Frank if they can get another 20% raise out of it for themselves.
They're sick vultures. Find them. Arrest them. Drag them back to the state house. Let's fucking vote.
Or else.
It's a red herring that the budget is some PATCO-like firing mechanism.
It's odd that these warriors for democracy are afraid to allow their rank and file to opt for union membership once a year, while asking them to pay their own dues. It's stranger yet that they feel "assaulted" because they can't bargain for wages in excess of the CPI, and because they have to pay less for their medical and pension bennies.
There are too many cries of outrage here over Walker's targeting of coercive union membership and the privileged self-dealing that comprises public sector union "collective bargaining."
Unless...you're guilty of a double standard, which would also make the Dems guilty of a double standard...oh, man..I have a headache.
LMAO.
I would not be surprised if a lot of the bussed in people were from CHICAGO. This is a common tactic for the unions to pull in Illinois.
How ironic you quoted me UT. I stand to the left with pride and conviction.
I've noticed stupidity has no party.
Wait....what I mean to say.....
FIRE THEIR ASSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is anybody attempting to organize a counter-protest? That would certainly be interesting.
Comparing someone with a position that is not blindly pro-union (or as some would say, 'anti-union') is in fact the antithesis of NAZI ideology, as the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany (aka the Nazis) was very much about the government being pro-worker, and had socialistic policies like nationalizing t health care and education. The means by which they attempted to create their homogeneous workers paradise were horrific, but the desired end wasn't radically different than what Marx and Lenin envisioned, and is the complete opposite of what American conservatives and tea party people alike, are all about.
I lament the fact that many (not all) of our 'educators' are ignorant dolts who, but for their union protectors would be in fields more suitable for their talents, abilities, and willingness to do their homework.
Well, to be fair, the Governor did send the police to go door to door, searching for a group of people based on their political affiliation, and demand they be handcuffed and delivered to a chamber...
Handcuffed? Cite please.
During Tea Party rallies Althouse pushed the idea that people carrying inappropriate signs where liberal plants even though they were photographed with the signs. But here Althouse is putting up pictures of signs that are in snow banks (I suspect that the GOP just made them up and stuck them outside their office before filming them nowhere near the capitol.)
The only hypocrisy that Ann is proving is her own.
BTW, isn't that Ann hiding behind the Hitler sign?
Thank you for the laugh and the much needed dose of reality, jonmarsh4.
Trooper, you haven't been funny enough lately. Do your job, man!
60 Republicans to 38 Democrats...
After the Democratic process of the 2010 election..
Now what do the Democrats do?
Run away!
I have a good feeling the Democrats and various union parties had control of the state for years...
Now, suddenly they are in the minority-and this is what you get.
Thug-o-cracy.
Why is it, Jay, you feel obliged to grace us twice with just about every comment you make?
Running away = the new filibuster! :)
Retread has a funny definition of "proof"...
Where are the Democrats? According to AP they "fled" the state. Did they run away? Are they cowards? Are they seeking Presidential help to bring freedom back to the peace loving people of Wisconsin? Are they planning a coup with the prez? Where have the Democrats gone?
Oh where oh where have the Democrats gone? Oh where oh where can they be?
As a former UW grad student and TA from the mid-seventies, I can't help but wonder if the students turn MadTown in Cairo? And on the pretext of anti-unionism. It's the economy, stupids!
Would not be surprised to see Karl Armstrong (if alive...) dragged in front of a crowd for an over the top rally...
Maybe the revolution DOES start in Madison, forty years later? The revolution of fiscal responsibility and uncommon sense!
Are they cowards?
Some questions answer themselves.
Rush mentioned your pics today!!!!!!
Suggested new motto for the Badger State: "Wisconsin Means Business"
I can't help but wonder if the students turn MadTown in Cairo?
Lara Logan is back in the States. They should send her to cover it. I'm sure she's fine by now.
Well, to be fair, the Governor did send the police to go door to door...
I really wish he didn't have to. Job abandonment is cause for immediate termination most places (even union shops). We should have new elections for all of these Senate seats as soon as practicable.
"Now what do the Democrats do? Run away!"
They've run away to prevent democracy from occurring. To prevent voting.
Egyptians and Baharaini's are dying in the streets for the right to vote and these fucking Democrats are deying that same right to us now. They're preventing voting.
We should do what the Egyptians did and force thee corrupt government officials from office. Force their resignations. The citizens of Wisconsin should march on their Capital and take it back.
We see now what Democrats really are all about. They don't want votes if they're going to lose votes. They won't participate in votes if they're going to lose. They will act illegally to prevent voting and Democracy from taking place unless they can have their way.
That's not a Democracy. That's a dictatorship. And we should have no alliegiance to a dictatorship. We have an obligation in fact to dismantle a dictatorship by every means required.
When we're left with no other choice but to go down that dark and winding road ... I hope they remember that we tried Democracy first and that they prevented it from occurring.
They'll have only themselves to blame.
And oh, one favor Illinois? Please KEEP them!
Running away = the new filibuster!
Nope, it's old hat for Democrats. It has been done several times before. Twice in Texas.
Ankur....
We're going to turn you into a Republican yet...
Your first assignment:
Monty Python's The Holy Grail.
Sorry Ankur.
Do you know why Indian woman all have that red dot in the middle of their forehead?
It's from their husbands poking them with their finger going....you're so fucking ugly!!!
All the best,
Your pal,
Trooper.
If the Slumdog Millionaire was awake he would say that is racist.
I asked the woman if she thought Scott Walker was like Hitler, and she said "Yes." So I said, "Are you saying that you think fascism could come to America," and she said, "It's what's happening."
What the left is basically doing is engaging in classic projection. They are the Nazis. Also it seems garage is falsely sensing a tipping point and shows his true fascist colors.
Anita - it's more like stuff white lefty hipster douchebags like.
Love watching the left FLAIL.
Another poster mentioned how the relationship between left-right is similar to a parent-child relationship.
The child demands something; the parent says 'no'; the child throws itself to the ground, kicking and screaming.
I think thats about right.
So I said, "Are you saying that you think fascism could come to America," and she said, "It's what's happening."
And this person is an "educator?"
Wisconsin?
Your public educational system is pathetic.
The Wisconsin teacher associations have done enormous damage to public school teachers across the nation today.
No, trooper. Those red dots are target practise marks...
I don't think for a minute any Democrat is "hurt" by the obvious hypocrisy evident in the video/photos.
Also, remember the charges that Republicans were obstructionists for wanting no part of the Democrats unconstitutional health scare scam? Isn't fleeing the state to avoid a vote about as anti-democractic as it gets? By abrogating their legislative responsibilities they are engaging in the ultimate in obstructionism...and embarrassing Wisconsin in the eyes of the nation.
They just don't care about the hypocrisy.
Remember Reagan and the air/flight controllers.
Fire them all. Now.
"Anita - it's more like stuff white lefty hipster douchebags like."
That's why it's so funny. The blog owners wrote a book too.
Have a look at the whole site:
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/
I'm just a tad sick and tired of Tea Party protesters getting hung with the Obama/Hitler signs.
Those signs belong to the LaRouche Communists; ardent Obama supporters.
How do I know?
It says so right on the sign.
One of them was at a tea party rally last year here in Michigan, and when he was ran off, he was seen entering the campaign office of John Dingell.
The kids in the Capitol are all abuzz because they see the BBC covering them.
Latest update: Ed Schultz might be covering them live tonight. "WOW!!"
*pants*
*swoons*
It has been reported that Obama has authorized the Democratic senators be immediately placed in the federal witness protection program. There was an airplane sited en route to Gitmo from an undisclosed location in the badger state.
Time to play "Who blinks First" start firing 500 of the Puplic "workers" an hour until the Dems show back up to do their job.
Also, remember the charges that Republicans were obstructionists for wanting no part of the Democrats unconstitutional health scare scam? Isn't fleeing the state to avoid a vote about as anti-democractic as it gets?
"IOKIYAD!!!"
I do believe it is BHO who has had the government take over business and punish private investors.
Where's his moustache, teacher?
Fair and balanced and all that.
By abrogating their legislative responsibilities they are engaging in the ultimate in obstructionism...and embarrassing Wisconsin in the eyes of the nation.
You write a very nice sentence. What if they're representing their constituents by fleeing?
(I agree it's a dumb idea, but as political theater? Highly entertaining)
Why can't they just vote present?
I mean you could get elected President that way.
" What if they're representing their constituents by fleeing?"
Then they are rejecting the very Democracy that they pretend to champion. They are all craven cowards, from the howling douchenozzle with the Hitler sign to the shiftless Senators who fled their responsibilities.
It's your Party, you can cry if you want to.
@Madison
"(I agree it's a dumb idea, but as political theater? Highly entertaining)"
While I'm sure we are all happy that you are entertained, the serious business of fiscal responsibility/reform awaits.
While the fools trot out their props, pickets and puppets, our community treasure rots due to waste, fraud and corruption.
If there is only will to hold on to our own little fiefdoms, then Greece we will be.
You're being cited at RedState, Professor:
Unions fuel the hate in Wisconsin
The school bus serving the Osceola, WI school district just went by my place.
Rejecting the tyranny of the majority, I suspect is how they view it. Shouldn't a person represent their constituents?
My Senator is creaky old Fred Risser. I can't imagine him fleeing anything at a rapid pace. I actually thought he had retired. He's been in the same office since 1962 (!!)
"What if they're representing their constituents by fleeing?"
They ARE representing their constituents: the unions. That's who they see themselves as representing. It's who they're beholden to.
So, in order to serve their constituency, they're taking a break from that whole, nasty, complicated democracy thing and running away so no one can vote.
In this way, they're just like their union constituents: voting is fine as long as the union wins. If there's a chance the union will not win, then it's time to do an end around that whole voting thingy.
The persuasion of power, doncha know?
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/07/28/the-organizing-philosophy-of-the-left/
My lady and I were talking over our morning coffee and I mentioned Madison--she said in her Mississippi delta vernacular: oh Madison--thats Berkeley with snow.
AllenS
The school bus serving the Osceola, WI school district just went by my place.
Were they using it for school kids or were they transporting the Dem legislators?
I heard or read that they left the capitol initially on a yellow bus.
the serious business of fiscal responsibility/reform awaits.
Yes it does. I'm unconvinced that things have to happen right away.
easy troop. some of my friends are untouchables
They ARE representing their constituents: the unions. That's who they see themselves as representing. It's who they're beholden to.
Oh, SNAP! ;)
This used to happen at the Federal level. From Barbara Tuchman's The Proud Tower:
Now the Democrats ... decided to absent themselves in actuality, counting on the inability of the Republicans to round up a quorum of themselves alone. As one by one the Democrats slipped out [Speaker of the House Thomas B.] Reed, divining their intentions, ordered the doors locked. At once their followed a mad scramble to get out before the next vote. Losing "all sense of personal or official dignity," Democrats hid under desks and behind screens. Representative Kilgore of Texas, kicking open a locked door to make his escape, made "Kilgore's Kick" the delight of cartoonists.
Comrade X said...
easy troop. some of my friends are untouchables
Oh yeah. Well they arrested some of my realative in Chicago so I don't care what they think.
You write a very nice sentence. What if they're representing their constituents by fleeing?
(I agree it's a dumb idea, but as political theater? Highly entertaining)
@ MM
While entertaining it is also a very dangerous tactic. By refusing to vote and do their duty, they are letting a situation go on and on longer than it needs to do.
When there is no resolution or closure upset people get even more upset and will tend to lash out even more wildly.
I'm bery much afraid that someone is going to get hurt here. If they do I put the blame squarely on the Democrats for running and hiding instead of standing up for themselves and their constituants.
Just because you are outnumbered is no excuse for craven tactics.
They need to man up and vote.
lol bery.... I mean very.
"My Senator is creaky old Fred Risser. I can't imagine him fleeing anything at a rapid pace."
No, of course not. Walking is for the little people. As a Democrat, I'm sure he did his fleeing in the style to which he's become accustomed. In a large, well-appointed luxury motorcoach. Or a limo. Perhaps, if he's like Pelosi Galore, a military aircraft.
At taxpayer expense. With a large per diem. And he'll probably demand overtime pay, and hazardous duty pay, etc.... As will his staff.
Rejecting the tyranny of the majority, I suspect is how they view it. Shouldn't a person represent their constituents?
Bullshit from a normally reasoned regular. You make your arguments and you vote against the measure you don't like. Anything else is an abdication of your responsibilities and, even politically-speaking, cowardly. What you seem to be arguing for is that one side or the other should never win both chambers and the governorship. Those aren't the rules on the field. What we are seeing is that the game isn't going the way the Dems want, so they are fleeing responsibility. There's nothing honorable about it.
It would equally apply if the GOP were in the minority and pulled a stunt like this. A imagine the screaming from the left would be quite shrill.
You make your arguments and you vote against the measure you don't like.
Or, you filibuster so nothing gets done.
MM: It's different than a regular filibuster. They are required by law to fulfill their duty. This is an *extralegal* filibuster.
Or, you filibuster so nothing gets done.
Filibustering, while I'm not a big fan, can be considered an argument. Jog my memory, but you have to be there to filibuster, no?
Or, you filibuster so nothing gets done.
Yes. That is why we have filibuster rules.
But you don't run and hide or sulk like whiney little bratty babies who aren't getting their way.
Anita, as a resident of Madison, Fred Risser doesn't get a per diem. I'm also fairly certain he drives a Prius.
Anita, as a resident of Madison, Fred Risser doesn't get a per diem. I'm also fairly certain he drives a Prius.
Ah...so he's contributing directly to the smug problem Madison has.
"It would equally apply if the GOP were in the minority and pulled a stunt like this. A imagine the screaming from the left would be quite shrill."
Yup. And THAT is why we need filibuster reform. Filibustering without having the actual hearings that a filibuster is supposed to consist of....is exactly the same thing. Abdicating of your responsibilities to vote. I have no doubt democrats will do that too when they are in the minority in the senate. And it will be just as bad then.
Scott said "Jog my memory, but you have to be there to filibuster, no?"
No..not any more. Not in the way filibusters have been implemented in the recent past. In fact the only person who has performed anything close to a real filibuster in recent times...is Bernie Sanders.
madawaskan said...
Were they using it for school kids or were they transporting the Dem legislators?
If they had been delinquent legislators, I would have made a citizens arrest.
So Madison and Ankur both revert to the fetal (filibuster=bad) position after their elected Party officials refuse to do their sworn duties. Typical of the ilk.
I repeat, for the thousandth time, that there is not a single honorable person on the Left.
Not. A. One.
@MM
"the serious business of fiscal responsibility/reform awaits.
Yes it does. I'm unconvinced that things have to happen right away."
So, putting it off until you or others deem it worthy of attention, will somehow help who/what?
Will the protests have stopped, what with a shortage of firring strips and posterboard? A shortage of Hitler costumes?
Classic. Put off until tomorrow, what you could have done, today.
I can see it now;
'Democrats, leading America into the future - maybe tomorrow'.
wv - ashegan
Lets convert all the picket signs into ashegan.
Did Walker say before getting elected that he planned on taking away collective bargaining rights for teachers? Why is he not also trying to take away collective bargaining rights for policemen, fire fighters, and state troopers? Maybe it is just because they supported him politically, while the other unions didn't? Giving special privileges to your cronies, and in particular to your police cronies, at the expense of your detractors seems vaguely fascist to me. Lots of things are getting uncomfortably fascist nowadays. At this point more of a banana republic style kleptocracy than outright corporate fascism, but getting there (more Mussolini-style than Hitler). If the tea party is bothered by people comparing shadiness to fascism, maybe it should just be honest and call itself the kumbaya party. I have many suspicions of the tea party. The extreme unprecedented corruption surrounding the financial bailouts is something people could rally about, and to the extent the tea party encourages that, bravo, but too often it seems just something that came into existence to hijack the righteous indignation of Americans concerning the financial bailout into indignation against government spending generally, probably because bankster groups like the Petersen foundation want interest rates low. Democrats, Republicans, Tea partiers, fascists? A (corrupt) partnership between government and moneyed-interests is arguably what Mussolini-style fascism is mostly about, and that's what we have now perhaps to an unprecedented degree in our nation's history, and both major parties seem about equally to blame, and arguably the tea party is or could be but a sold-out alternative or maybe a joke sponsored by the financial interests.
Ideally the federal government should be replacing via the printing press the corrupt money banks were allowed to create via dishonest speculation (that ensures the amount of money people have will be near their amount of indebtedness), and distributing that to the states to pay for teachers, etc., in this time of lower tax revenues. Barring that, states would be better to raise taxes than disrespect the teachers. Oftentimes people go into government jobs because they like the security of knowing their job isn't going to disappear for extraneous reasons. It doesn't cost Wisconsin to behave predictably and consistently with its employees. Take that away by behaving peremptorily toward them and it will be much harder for Wisconsin to attract good employees at low cost.
I see that here. I've had several people here in the Winston area telling me how wonderful it was to work for Reynolds Tobacco. "Really?" I ask. Yeah, they tell me how nice it was to know your job and that all you had to do was do your job every day and not have to ever worry about getting laid-off or having one's pay cut. Job stability is something people want and need, and if the way the private sector works is now too screwed up by the over-financed buy-out-and-plunder culture of Wall Street to offer that, this is no reason for the public sector to behave similarly.
What does it take to get a union de-certified?
The union should be busted, and each and every teacher should have to reapply for their position.
And any teacher shown to have held a sign with violent imagery should be fired IMMEDIATELY with no chance of re-hire. If I were a parent and saw one of my kid's teachers with a lynching cartoon on a sign, I'd be hard-pressed not to walk up and slap that teacher silly. (Yeah, I know, mixed message to my kids. But hey, I'm Dad, and we can discuss nuance for years....)
Lincolntf, try some substance in your argument next time.
Maybe explain why a filibuster-where-no-filibustering-occurs is any different than this.
Don't waste time with vapors and outrage. Bring the meat and potatoes...or go home.
@Stephen Meigs
"Giving special privileges to your cronies, and in particular to your police cronies, at the expense of your detractors seems vaguely fascist to me. "
Wow you leave a lot of ammunition lying about.
If I didn't know better I'd say you made this statement about the regime in DC.
Does this mean that, simply taking ObamaKare waivers granted into account, that you think comrade Zero is a fascist??? Hmmmm???
Shouldn't a person represent their constituents?
Represent them in the Statehouse, sure. Running away isn't very represent-y, is it?
I love the way Ankur is trying to make running away seem respectable.
Hey Ankur, I was referring to the "filibuster" non-sequitir that you dolts were trying to employ.
You should really try finding a worthwhile cause to get behind. Maybe one that doesn't involve supporting the hate-mongers and sloths currently barring children from their federally mandated education?
But you won't. The children are the last consideration to the ideologues. Government control uber alles.
Re: Miegs, wow. Someone HAS been buying into the conspiracy theories that Robert Cooke's been peddling here for years.
Lots to dispute in that rant, but to stay on topic, I'll just shoot down for the umpteenth time the misinformation that "maybe it is just because they supported him politically, while the other unions didn't?" The state organizations of both police and fire fighter unions supported Barrett. Kinda eviscerates your crony-ism argument a little, doesn't it? Sounds good at a rally, though, I bet!
@ScottM
"It would equally apply if the GOP were in the minority and pulled a stunt like this. A imagine the screaming from the left would be quite shrill."
@Ankur
"Yup. And THAT is why we need filibuster reform. "
(eye roll)
"Lincolntf, try some substance in your argument next time.
Maybe explain why a filibuster-where-no-filibustering-occurs is any different than this.
Don't waste time with vapors and outrage. Bring the meat and potatoes...or go home."
ROFLMAO.
Gonna borrow from Scott M - 'weak sauce'.
Actually, I kind of agree with that woman about Hitler and fascism coming here. They may think Hitler abolished unions but nobody expects teachers to know any history. What happened was that the Nazis never got over 25% of the vote until they were able to silence their opponents with mob action, sort of like those pictures.
More sidestepping and no answers.
How is the way filibustering is implemented today any different? And if you think one is bad, why not the other?
For the record, I think both are equally bad. Both are effectively running away from your responsibility to vote.
But you cannot be intellectually consistent while supporting one and condemning the other.
For the record, I think both are equally bad. Both are effectively running away from your responsibility to vote.
=====
For starters, one doesn't involve actually running away. Out of state. And refusing to let people know where you are.
@Canker
"More sidestepping and no answers.
How is the way filibustering is implemented today any different? And if you think one is bad, why not the other?
For the record, I think both are equally bad. Both are effectively running away from your responsibility to vote.
But you cannot be intellectually consistent while supporting one and condemning the other."
The thread is not about filibusters. Go home.
What's the problem with the teachers closing the schools down? Especially if you compare it to the way current teaching is done in many schools.
Perhaps the Democrats are channelling their inner Sir Robin?
'When Danger reared its ugly head,
Sir Robin turned his tail and fled.
Brave, Breave, Brave, Brave Sir Robin'
@ Ankur,
You just said that running away illegally and hiding, in opposition to one's sworn oath and one's responsibilities to constituents -- is the same thing as placing a hold on legislation via Senate rules, and arguing against that legislation, on the record and in the clear.
That's how I thought about it too!
What's the problem with the teachers closing the schools down? Especially if you compare it to the way current teaching is done in many schools.
What is your point? That government schooling is already FUBAR, so who cares?
How is the way filibustering is implemented today any different? And if you think one is bad, why not the other?
Epic Fail.
When there is a "fillibuster" in the US Senate, there is an actual vote.
Clown.
The filibuster has an end- if the cloture vote reaches 60, the filibuster is over.
What is the procedural end to just hiding out of state?
How is the way filibustering is implemented today any different? And if you think one is bad, why not the other?
One is illegal. One is not.
Do we live in a nation of law or not?
What is your point? That government schooling is already FUBAR, so who cares?
I'm trying to channel Ankur.
According to the Milwaukee, Wisconsin Journal Sentinel,
The bargaining law changes would apply to all public workers except police, firefighters and state troopers. The unions for state troopers, Milwaukee police officers and Milwaukee firefighters all endorsed Walker, while most other unions endorsed his Democratic opponent, Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett.
So no, I don't see any hole in my argument unless the newspaper article is wrong. I am not familiar enough with Wisconsin or the particular unions to know which ones if any are corrupt.
The main thing that happened in European fascism that probably can't happen here is the whole externally directed racist militarism. Being a genetically diverse country, it seems unlikely racism could lead to militaristic expansion. But by the same token there is a kind of respect for one's own country that can occur on account of racism. If America goes fascist, it will probably be a more internally directed directly self-destructive thing than occured in fascist Europe. But the extreme corrupt alliances between moneyed-interests and government, and also mass breakdown in the rule of law leading to widespread government-controlled thuggery, those are all things that seem quite possible.
Good for you, Ann. The one thing the Left can't stand is exposure.
I think Wisconsin needs to upgrade their teachers ... Fire these mental midgets.
The constitution has no mention anywhere of the filibuster being a means of blocking legislation.
In all cases, when it comes to the senate, all the constitution requires is a majority vote.
Again, there might not be a physical and legal equivalence between 'running away' and filibustering - but morally, they are both the same. They prevent actual up/down voting on the legislation in question.
And both are reprehensible.
For starters, one doesn't involve actually running away. Out of state. And refusing to let people know where you are.
And calling in with a list of demands like you've got hostages.
Although I would have given them style points if one of their demands included "The following people are to be released from their captors: In Northern Ireland, the seven members of the New Provo Front. In Canada, the five imprisoned leaders of Liberte de Quebec. In Sri Lanka, the nine members of the Asian Dawn movement... "
You're reading the (admittedly somewhat vague) article to confirm your bias, SM.
"The unions for state troopers, Milwaukee police officers and Milwaukee firefighters all endorsed Walker, while most other unions endorsed his Democratic opponent"
In other words, besides the Milwaukee locals, almost all of the police and fire union locals in the state, as well as the state-level organizations, endorsed Barrett. And I took it as a GOOD sign that the Milwaukee public safety unions, that actually had experience working with Walker, endorsed him!
but morally, they are both the same. They prevent actual up/down voting on the legislation in question.
And both are reprehensible.
Again.
You get enough votes for cloture, you can end the filibuster.
How do you end this Democrat hostage drama?
Hope she doesn't teach history. She needs to read up on fascism. And how to be persuasive in your arguments.
Shanna, you're my hero!
wv: snoing. No, it's not snoing here today.
Love it, Shanna!
"The constitution has no mention anywhere of the filibuster being a means of blocking legislation.
In all cases, when it comes to the senate, all the constitution requires is a majority vote.
Again, there might not be a physical and legal equivalence between 'running away' and filibustering - but morally, they are both the same. They prevent actual up/down voting on the legislation in question.
And both are reprehensible."
That's daft. One is done according to the chamber's rules (not everything is in the Constitution), while the other is not. One can be modified or rescinded according to proper and legal procedures, the other can not. You may as well say a prison break is morally equivalent to parole.
"What is the procedural end to just hiding out of state?"
They come back, eventually.
liberals + petard
(some hoisting required)
This is really not professional at all. These fools are giving teachers a bad name.
So we have the new liberal definition of "fascism": "Whatever harshes Dem vibe."
These are teachers playing hookey and demonstrating to retain pension and other benefits that they don't have to pay for. People in the private sector pay into their own pensions, which are much less cushy and posh that the gold-plated contracts AFSCME and other unions obtain for state employees. The California 5-year extension of pensions for a fee is a distortion of the idea of retirement benefits.
I am a native Wisconsonite transplanted to warmer climes who thinks that Walker & the two Fitzgerald brothers are brave men in the face of hooliganism and a mobocracy of insane civil servants.
There's a Poli Sci term for the takeover of a state by its employees to the detriment of other citizens: "Bureaucratic Authoritarianism," as in Havana & Caracas in this hemisphere. Allende tried it in Chile.
Great picture, Ann! I notice that the person holding the picture with the swastika was also conveniently hiding behind it!
My grandparents were buried by concentration camps in Europe. Those who survived sought refuge in South and North America. Family and friends were jailed and tortured by totalitarian-statist regimes in S. America. What was left of the family took refuge in the midwest of the U.S.
Now, we've run into you...calling us the 'Nazis' and suffering your activist non-virtue and your claims to 'teach the law."
Your reference to fascism insults these family memories. Like Mussolini and Hitler you attempt to shift to the victims from your fascist and dishonest sense of indignation.
You have no shame, Nor do you deserve the protection of a sense of embarrassment. You have none.
There are certainly a lot more details to take into consideration, but thanks for sharing this post.
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