Knock yourselves out.
If I may use the expression.
AND: Michelle Malkin is rising to the occasion, compiling the list. I'll just contribute this poster I photographed in the window of a shop here in 2004:
January 10, 2011
"Sarah Palin is not to blame for shooting of Gabrielle Giffords; left-wing rhetoric just as vicious."
Ah, now you see why the accusations backfire (if I may dare to use that word): the occasion has been created for conservatives to list every violent-sounding thing any liberals or lefties have ever said about anything.
Knock yourselves out.
If I may use the expression.
AND: Michelle Malkin is rising to the occasion, compiling the list. I'll just contribute this poster I photographed in the window of a shop here in 2004:
Knock yourselves out.
If I may use the expression.
AND: Michelle Malkin is rising to the occasion, compiling the list. I'll just contribute this poster I photographed in the window of a shop here in 2004:
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227 comments:
1 – 200 of 227 Newer› Newest»The bright yellow "Kill Bush" tshirt with the huge blood-red slash across the chest was a nice touch, wouldn't you say?
Michelle Malkin has already done up this subject in style. Pictures, video, etc.
http://michellemalkin.com/
The progressive “climate of hate:” An illustrated primer, 2000-2010.
No need to go anywhere else.
(if I may dare to use that word)
Well, go ahead if you want the blood on your hands too.
The only one to blame for this is the guy who did it.
Backfiring is just fuel igniting before the intake valve closes.
There's nothing violent about it.
You know althouse--you are feeding shit to drive up your hit count--then you can be the best legal blog--step back and do some self analysis--hell: go skiing or ice boating. You arent helping missy--
"Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes", really needs to be replaced in the Bunker Hill battle history. It is now a twice forbidden use of language. I bet that the officer that said that was an ancestor of Crazy Sarah.
There is an obit for Dick Winters in today's news. He was the epitome of the Scots-Irish warrior. RIP Major Winters.
The point has been well made already and the people most in need of seeing the point won't.
Jessica Yellin on CNN brought up a Palin tweet urging opponents of Obamacare not to retreat, but reload.
And Jessica is still at it.
Desperate to link this to the Tea Party.
The novel "The Assassination of George Bush" well received, even applauded
, by the left.
Ann Althouse is doing a great service by allowing this exposure of the hate-filled left in this country.
I want EVERYONE in America to know where the New York Times stands on this:
Today's Lead Editorial:
Arizona should quiet the voices of intolerance and impose sensible gun control laws.
(In other words - free speech is only for the New York Fucking Times.)
The assholes at the Times go on:
But it is legitimate to hold Republicans and particularly their most virulent supporters in the media responsible for the gale of anger that has produced the vast majority of these threats, setting the nation on edge. Many on the right have exploited the arguments of division, reaping political power by demonizing immigrants, or welfare recipients, or bureaucrats. They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people.
This was written in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA by the PAPER of RECORD, the most influential piece of Main Stream Media.
Are these people adults? They are expounding Anti-American values.
I hold them responsible for the left-wing hatred in this country, and I am totally serious.
They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people.
I daresay a good many of the Founders, to one degree or another, saw centralized federal power as a threat to personal liberty.
Wow, 46% of the respondents in the NYDN poll are saying that Palin is responsible for the AZ shooting.
Are there really that many morons out there? Creepy!
Wow, 46% of the respondents in the NYDN poll are saying that Palin is responsible for the AZ shooting.
Yes, but the same people blame God for the little occult shrine the guy had in a tent in his back yard. He probably had another one in a van...down by the river...
Chase: May I suggest not a hell of a lot of people read the NYT except possibly for restaurant and show reviews? Oh--and I do love the sunday crossword puzzle--other than that, its fishwrap--the WSJ has a much better weekend edition except they got rid of dorothy and john on their wine review section.
Why look here:
The email blast sent out Sunday morning to its supporters tells members that “we don’t know yet” why Jared Loughner shot Gabrielle Giffords but goes on to lay the blame on Sarah Palin and Gifford’s opponent in the past election for using “violent imagery” in his campaign.
The email goes on to ask members to “join us in sharing your thoughts and prayers to the Congresswoman and her family by visiting our website where we have set up a page for you to do so.” Naturally once you click on the link you are taken to a page that prominently displays the group’s DONATE NOW button.
Shocking, I know...
Seriously - has anyone taken the time to view Michelle Malkin's page of left wing hatred from just the last 4 years alone?
You must - you must because there is NO equivalent on the right - NOTHING close in numbers and sheer volume.
Look at it and see if you can do it without throwing up. Then come back here and tell everyone how "both sides are equal" in the hate speech.
Anyone who believes such a thing is an absolute idiot.
I think part of the political anger comes from not feeling like we really can influence events or decisions that impact us. I still vote and I still argue issues, but I'm making my peace with the fact that my influence is about zero. For most of us, the only influence we have in changing minds or decisions is over our own children.
It's also a huge realization for me that the people I used to be so angry with politically also don't have any influence, aren't players in any significant way. Most of their political rhetoric and bluster is just show, and if you can brush your way past it, sometimes they aren't so bad to know.
The NYT editorial:
"They seem to have persuaded many Americans that the government is not just misguided, but the enemy of the people."
Interestingly, the head of said government views those same Americans as the enemies of his allies as well.
left-wing rhetoric just as vicious?
Substantially worse IMAO. As shoutingthomas says, go here for a quick stroll down memory lane as regards left wing incitement to violence.
I wonder where that phrase "knock yourself out" came from?
That Malkin link just gives the well-publicized events. It doesn't go into all of the foul emails she's personally received over the years. She has those compiled somewhere on her site too -- they're beyond belief.
Maybe Alphaliberal can direct us to the compilation of rightwing hate stories and photos, and we can compare and contrast those to Malkin's compilation.
It looks like she has close to 100 separate stories listed there. I'm sure the left will be able to find a comparable number of offenses by the right, similar in severity.
Any time, Alpha, HD, garage et al.
shouting thomas,
Michelle Malkin has already done up this subject in style. Pictures, video, etc.,...No need to go anywhere else.
Dude, shut UP!
Roger,
Actually, the people who wield the most power in the nation read the New York Times. I agree that the WSJ is a far superior paper.
The 3 major networks take their cue everyday from that mornings New York Times.
It matters - and it is evil. Not neutral, not good - but anti-American values and evil in it's twisted news reporting.
Here's a direct link to malkin's illustrated primer. Unlike the left, which merely insists without proof that violent political rhetoric only exists on the right and so (conveniently for the left) we must make the right shut up, Michelle has link after link after link of real proof.
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/
You members of the "reality-based" community should familiarize yourself with some of this reality.
Missy?! Thems fightin' words.
Chase: agree to some extent, but my suspicion is that the NYT is far less significant that it was 20 years ago--at the risk of being uber cynical, I suspect Drudge has more impact on national coverage that does the Grey Lady any more. I agree the AP always took its lead from the NYT--as did many regional papers--but my belief is, far less so these days.
Anyway, I appreciate your perspective and comments and thanks.
Killer was a 911 Truther just like Holocuast musuem killer. More violence from those with Bush Derangement Syndrome.
You people don't get it. If Fidel Castro flew to Miami and shot a few people, it would be a "shocking act of violence inspired by right wing rhetoric". If Andy Sullivan stabbed someone, he would instantly be "noted conservative Andrew Sullivan". By default no one on the left is capable of anything other than sweetness and light, because that's how confirmation basis works, and the huge draw of being on the left is the smug self righteousness; you don't just disagree with your opponents, you're morally superior. And [insert any bad thing here that you've mentally assigned to whatever you oppose] just proves it. It's an emotional response.
Therefore attempting to reason or rationally discuss is a waste of both parties time. If you're a thinking liberal you already understand the point, and if you're arguing you're emotionally incapable of grasping it.
Before he went off the deep end, Charles Johnson of LittleGreenFootballs would regularly do screen caps of the comment boards at Kos or Puffington when any major event or mishap would occur, particularly to a Conservative or Republican. This is something that infects the Left top to bottom and they are on record.
They won't be able to control this the way they did after OK City.
paul a'barge said...
Wow, 46% of the respondents in the NYDN poll are saying that Palin is responsible for the AZ shooting.
Never forget the Daily Dirt's readership, like the rag itself, is mostly Lefty. Everyone else reads the Post.
Hey Deborah--if John Wayne could use them so can I--(which of course is why I chose the term--I could have said bint (new construction apparently, or any other of more spiteful words :)
The way the world works: 1) The proper response to left wing crimes is to reflect on the need to tighten gun control laws. 2) The proper response to crimes committed by a known conservative is to reflect upon the wickedness of right wingers and their rhetoric. 3) The proper response to a crime committed by an obvious madman: see 1 and 2 above......I would urge Sarah Palin not to use cross hair imagery. I don't think it encourages assassins. but, clearly, it causes liberals to become hyperbolic and apoplectic. The large number of cerebral infarcts found among liberals is directly due to this rhetoric.
John Wayne can call me missy anytime :)
By default no one on the left is capable of anything other than sweetness and light
A good deal of left-leaners that I've encountered over the years held that violence, any violence, was inherently right-wing. When pressed, the reason they believed this failed under the cross. Generally, it was because someone in a poly-sci class told them so.
@William, here's a self-proclaimed feminist's response to your suggestion that Palin tone down her rhetoric.
ps thanks for the heads-up on bint...it's a new one on me.
How many times was Bush burned in effigy at an anti war rally? If sarah palin saying we should target people (to remove from office)and putting a crosshair on them is bad, how bad is burning a symbol of Bush at an anti war rally? Wouldn't a crazy person who miight take Palin's OBVIOUS non call for assassination as a call for an assassination merely on the grounds that she used a crosshair metaphor, also use the burning of the leader of the free world as a similar call to commit violence?
Or how about a movie that talks about assassinating Bush? Or how about articles talking about how they'd like to kill the president. Nothing vague there. Or how about throwing shoes at a symbol of Bush on his way out? Not incendiary or violent? Or how about saying that Bush is Hitler, and personally was involved in 9/11 and personally was involved in briniging down 7 WTC with charges, as the Truthers did.
Was CNN not privy to these violent call to arms?
I could scour the internet looking for images and writing and movies put out by the left which is violent towards Bush or says we should kill Bush or disrespect Bush, and it would literally take me all day. I could post hundreds of links from the left where they were engaged in extremist rhetoric (and they've been doing so, since the 60's) that targets Bush or republicans. Is anything that Sarah Palin EVER posted as extreme as what you'd routinely find at any number of anti war rallies, or something you'd see in a michael moore movie or have discussed by the hags on the View? Seriously.
And for all the scapegoating of the tea partiers for their violence, this guy is sounding more and more like a far left nutjob, and not a tea partier at all. All his classmates describe him as a lefty, he talks about how he is an atheist. How representative is he of the tea partiers? Maybe he tried to kill the congresswoman because she wasn't liberal enough. She was a blue dog after all. She did have "EXTREMIST" views on immigration and balancing the budget. And the judge killed was a Bush apointee.
"If Andy Sullivan stabbed someone, he would instantly be "noted conservative Andrew Sullivan". By default no one on the left is capable of anything other than sweetness and light, because that's how confirmation basis works,"
This reminds me that Gary Condit was described as a conservative when suspected of murdering Chandra Levy. He had a nearly perfect leftist voting record.
@deborah, John Wayne died in 1979. He won't be calling you anything anytime soon.
deborah--I had to think for a bit about the construction of "bint" but is equally as egregous as its two components if not more so.
Oh, look! An obscure poster! Well that proves -- NOTHING.
Left-wing rhetoric just as vicious? What a fucking lie!
How about the Liberal Hunting Permits?
How about the frequently seen Tea Party sign, "next time we bring our guns?"
How about the apocalyptic warnings that Democrats are enemies of America and we need a second revolution?
How about the right wing people who bring guns to political events? For what? To settle a difference of opinion?
Just because conservatives do it, people think they need to blame both sides. That is a lie. The right wing has clearly called for, and threatened, violence from the top of their leadership to the fringe.
Althouse, you march in lockstep with the right wing and have no ability for independent thought.
Roger J:
You know althouse--you are feeding shit to drive up your hit count--then you can be the best legal blog--step back and do some self analysis--hell: go skiing or ice boating. You arent helping missy--
Absolutely.
deborah, your avatar appears to be a dead calico cat on a chopping block.
As a cat cohabitant, I condemn your violent felinephobic imagery.
Keep going, Alpha. You have about 95 more incidents to list, to catch up with Malkin.
And some actual corroborating links and specifics of the incident would be nice.
The real insanity and madness is coming from the right wing, where up is down and white is black and anyone who disagrees with the party line of the day is painted as an enemy of America.
It was the right wing who turned constituent meetings into battlegrounds, sending in their thugs to disrupt and accost anyone who disagrees with the Tea Party.
In typical fashion, they will not accept responsibility for their actions. Palin, instead, scrubs her web site of her talk of violence and lies about the map crosshairs being just simple cartographic symbols.
No admission of fault from Palin - Republicans never admit doing anything wrong!
It's sick. They preach hatred and violence and then blame their critics as the pile of bodies grows and grows.
These Palin-as-vampire wheat pastes everywhere up everywhere.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanessa3/2975795439/
Designed to incite mentally unstable would-be vampire slayers?
Whoa, typing fail. Or, grammar! Mind control!
You lose Alpha - and you always will on this one.
You should hang your head in shame for the hate that daily comes out of your side of the political spectrum.
Let's not forget the Communists and Socialists and the hundred millions they murdered under the name of the philosophies you and your left-wing cohorts still support today.
You lost.
You know who else is mentally unstable? Initials are AL.
Here's one of the violent right-wing hate acts listed at your link, Alpha:
Dinesh d'Souza: "There is no way to restore the culture without winning the war on terror. Conversely, the only way to win the war on terror is to win the culture war. Thus we arrive at a sobering truth. In order to crush the Islamic radicals abroad, we must defeat the enemy at home."
Wow, that is bad. He used the word "war". When discussing, you know, an actual shooting war. That violent bastard.
The real insanity and madness is coming from the right wing, where up is down and white is black and anyone who disagrees with the party line of the day is painted as an enemy of America.
Projection, thy name is leftist.
The NYT is a partisans morals.
Che is "ironic", those he killed needed killin'. The same can be said for Mao and Joe Stalin. All the death wrought by the left in the 20th century is to be ignored. One hundred million eggs had to be broken. It was necessary. And sick fucks still love communism and the totalitarian state - they come here every day and post comments supporting the ongoing death machine that is the state. How about abortions - do they count? Not to a liberal - more death is good.
Stacy McCain over at The Other McCain nails it with this statement:
“Crazy” is not an ideology. And “civility” won’t cure schizophrenia.
Can Vitriol Be Cured By Civility and What Does It Have To Do With Tucson?
You lost.
To be fair, they're loosing. They haven't lost yet. Bear that in mind.
Alpha, for all your scapegoating of tea partiers for their so called violent rhetoric, where were you on the lefts rhetoric towards Bush?
And what if this current tea partier turns out to be an atheist truther leftist and not a tea partier at all?
WOn't you feel really stupid?
(as if that is a change from your normal state) Or even more stupid than you normally present yourself?
Can anyone be more hypocritical than the left?
Another of Alpha's examples of violence from the right, as given at his link:
Karl Rove: "Has there ever been a more revealing moment this year?" Mr. Rove asked. "Let me just put this in fairly simple terms: Al Jazeera now broadcasts the words of Senator Durbin to the Mideast, certainly putting our troops in greater danger. No more needs to be said about the motives of liberals."
Now, this is a subtle one, but clearly there are cues (perhaps even subliminal messages) telling the reader "Murder Durbin, murder Durbin." You just have to read between the lines a little bit.
It's way worse than a picture of Bushitler McHaliburton with a gun to his head. Way, way worse.
AlphaLiberal said
How about the apocalyptic warnings that Democrats are enemies of America and we need a second revolution?"
Well that is true. You prove that every day by your every word.
You are the problem.
Here's a personal favorite from Malkin's list:
Flashback — Montel Williams to GOP Rep. Michele Bachmann:
WILLIAMS (1:30:32): Michele, slit your wrist.
Go ahead… or, do us all a better thing [sic].
Move that knife up about two feet.
Start right at the collarbone.
No, that is just wrong.
LBecasue left-wing rhetoric is intensely, horribly, much much more vicious. To the point of being evil.
AL - what are you doing to calm the situation down?
A GOP Senator had an interview with Politico where he called on the rhetoric to be toned down. He called on the Republicans to re-assess and tone down their rhetoric.
But he would not put his own name behind his comments and that is very telling.
Such a simple message should not be something a Senator is afraid to say. But he knows that his party, from the top of leadership on down, relies on hysteria and violence-laced rhetoric. And so s/he is afraid to stand up and put his name behind his words.
A senior Republican senator, speaking anonymously in order to freely discuss the tragedy, told POLITICO that the Giffords shooting should be taken as a “cautionary tale” by Republicans.
“There is a need for some reflection here - what is too far now?” said the senator. “What was too far when Oklahoma City happened is accepted now. There’s been a desensitizing. These town halls and cable TV and talk radio, everybody’s trying to outdo each other.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0111/47294.html#ixzz1Aei19WUH
<sidetrack>
I became curious about the photo of short-hair Loughner wearing a white t-shirt standing in front of some poster. A political poster? What is it? Image search shows it to be a giant crossword puzzle.
That automatically makes the photo and the subject more interesting to me. Had I passed by I would be compelled to stop. Having stopped I would naturally chat it up with whoever was standing there. Partially unfilled crossword puzzles do that to me -- the blank areas pull me in like an irresistible whirlpool. It's a weakness, I know. (if for whatever reason you would want to catch me like a mousetrap or a fish in a net that would be the way to do it) If the puzzle is completely filled then pffft no interest at all and the guy would be a wanker for standing there displaying it. As it is, I'm bummed the photo doesn't show the puzzle more clearly so we viewers can have a go.
</sidetrack>
Here a two nice examples of the tolerant left;
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hgrvvas5cwo/TQzXIYuewgI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/jjBh0oYGXa0/s1600/kilborn+bush+snipers+wanted.jpg
Snipers wanted, with a picture of George Bush. Because snipers are wanted to assassinate Bush?
Or how about Madonna in concert threatnening to kick Sarah Palin's ass:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hgrvvas5cwo/TQzXIYuewgI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/jjBh0oYGXa0/s1600/kilborn+bush+snipers+wanted.jpg
Star inciting crowd to commit violence against a public official?
But of course, it's always the righties that are violent.
And what about your tone AL? While Republicans are doing the toning down, what will you be doing? Tell you what; why don't you start out by leading by example?
"Move that knife up about two feet. Start right at the collarbone."
I'm sure he meant that in the very nicest way.
I honestly can't figure out if all these Democrats/Leftists are smoking crack and can't see how bad their side has been the last 10 years or if they are just despicable, venal bastards who have absolutely no integrity and don't care how far into the gutter they have to go to score points.
There certainly is no objective evidence that there is a rising tide of threats from anyone in the Tea Party movement. Leftists and other mainstream Democrats who should (and do) know better proclaim it as a given truth all the time, as several posts on this thread demonstrate, but they never have any evidence to back it up. Tea Partiers show up, protest, hold signs, clean up and go home (frequently with their children). That's the only thing that can be proven about them. Anything claimed beyond that is despicable slander.
I don't believe for one minute that a Republican Senator said any such thing. It is a fabrication. You can not trust anything the mainstream media says without attribution. They have lied too many times.
If a Senator doesn't have the balls to say that he or she should resign.
A GOP Senator had an interview with Politico where he called on the rhetoric to be toned down. He called on the Republicans to re-assess and tone down their rhetoric.
Note the change of pace and tactics on Omega's part. A partial admission of defeat.
How 'bout returning to the original subject, Omega?
Let's hear your comments about Malkin's list. What are you doing to discourage the hate rhetoric on the left?
John Wayne is dead?
Hadn't gotten that far, Roger...but, yes.
Pasta, my avatar is very misleading.
Malkin's examples are small stuff. Examples of an angry person tearing out a yard sign, or some obscure blog post.
Malkin is flagging stuff from individuals or the firing while the incendiary rhetoric of violence is from the leadership and mainstream of the Republican Party and conservatism.
Ann Coulter calls for a Supreme Court Justice to be poisoned and the New York Times destroyed. She is defended.
Rush Limbaugh calls for revolution and violence, as he did around OK City bombing.
John Boehner says a Congressman is a "dead man" if he votes for a bill.
Vandalism on Democratic offices was excused, dismissed and even applauded right on these very pages and by Republicans.
Glenn Beck attacks the Tides Foundation, an unstable would-be killer takes inspiration and is caught. Conservatives ignore it.
Talk about shooting liberals, "progressive hunter" ans so forth is common on the right wing and even echoed by candidates for political office.
There is not comparison. It is a lie from a movement that never admits any wrongdoing by any of their members, preferring the sort of attacks we see from Michelle Malkin and Ann Althouse.
From Legal Insurrection, by way of Instapundit:
"Here is just a partial list of events in which the left-wing and Democratic Party media operation has immediately blamed right-wing rhetoric, only to be proven wrong when the facts finally came out:
Bill Sparkman
Amy Bishop
The Fort Hood Shooter
The IRS Plane Crasher
The Cabbie Stabbing
The Pentagon Shooter.
The facts will come out about the shooting and murder by Loughner."
Let's keep sweating that violent rightwing rhetoric, when actual murderous violence is being perpetrated, not just threatened or incited or discussed, by those from the left.
Alpha Liberal is doing his darnedest to ratchet up the hate factor to a 100/100. Ask him why he refuses to tone it down.
@Alpha:
Dude, you have so not on top of your game these past few days. Soros and Obama are not getting their money's worth with you.
Please respond to the Malkin list. I'm real curious about your reaction to actual, documented facts as opposed to your fever fantasies.
wv: weepubz; a chain of brew pubs catering to dwarves and midgets...
I preemptively condemn myself...
This reminds me that Gary Condit was described as a conservative when suspected of murdering Chandra Levy.
Condit was also labeled a republican in a newspaper at least once. As was Dan Rostenkowski when he was in trouble over corruption.
The lies, fabrications and bullshit from the Democratic lap dogs of the mainstream media will continue unabated the next few days.
Just like all those raped and murdered in the Super Dome in NOLA during Katrina that had Anderson Cooper piss his panties, all of this will turn out to be a big bag of bullshit.
I honestly can't figure out if all these Democrats/Leftists are smoking crack and can't see how bad their side has been the last 10 years or if they are just despicable, venal bastards who have absolutely no integrity and don't care how far into the gutter they have to go to score points.
Their intentions are good!
So, you see, you can't really blame them for what happens in the real world implementation of things.
Their hearts ache for the poor! They want to create Utopia on earth! They want an equal distribution of all income!
So, how can you blame them for being righteously angry at injustice? It would be immoral if they were not. They are required by a higher morality to spit and curse and rage.
See how it works? They have good intentions.
Typing error:
"Malkin is flagging stuff from individuals or the firing"
Should be
"Malkin is flagging stuff from individuals or the fringe.
Shouting, I am very willing to criticize wrongdoing from people ideologically close to me. I did so here just yesterday and do it in real life.
There is no such willingness on the right. When someone does wrong on the right, they go on the attack on the left.
Dialog is useless.
Dialog is useless.
Why are you still here then?
Firing, Alpha? Are you suggesting that we fire upon Malkin? Or that we set her ablaze?
Why are you still here then?
He needs his blogporn fix in between sessions of gold farming for WoW.
Alpha is here because he paid to be here as an astrotroller from the Soros stable.
Malkin is flagging stuff from individuals or the fringe.
Really.
The Getty Museum in San Francisco displays a picture of Sara Palin and her daughter, and provides museum goers with a rifle so that they can pretend to shoot them, and you consider this inidividual or fringe?
Excellent. And let us continue to hold one another accountable.
AL: You have a signed copy of that wonderful book "The Assassination George Bush?" You didn't have much to say about that did you? Or is that not a bad thing, writing a book with the premise of killing the president. I think there was a play as well. You were too busy spewing bushitler and halliburton and blood for oil to give a shit weren't you?
Alpha, you got NOTHIN except satirical soundbites and writings taken way out of context. Malkin has actual photographic evidence of actual leftists with posters depicting calls to behead POTUS. Shoot POTUS. Lynch POTUS.
And that's not to mention the filth heaped on Palin; calls for murder, lynching and raping a VP candidate.
These are facts, Alpha. No fantasies.
Your talk of "condemnation" is a joke. You can't retroactively condemn the actions of you and your peers behavior during the last decade. Doesn't work that way. The evidence is there, and you and your peers stand guilty of the things you falsely accuse others of.
I won't be civil in talking smack about the Packers going to the Super Bowl. Oh hey. Hi Trooper. Hehe
Alpha, I don't think anyone with credibility has actually seriously put forward the theory that this deranged gunman acted because of George Soros or President Obama.
We're playing defense here, against your outrageous assertions of nonsense, by pointing out how the left has been just as heated and "violent" in their rhetoric as the right. Why would we take the time, in this discussion, to condemn rightwing nincompoops?
OK, fine, here you go: Anyone on the right that called for someone's murder is an asshole and a lunatic. Happy?
But I think we can all use words like "war" and "target" and "campaign" when discussing politics, without being accused of incitement to riot. Your attempts to score political points from this are akin to prying gold fillings from a dead man's teeth.
Nice work Ann. I enjoy watching a master play to her base.
Nice work Ann. I enjoy watching a master play to her base.
The IQ deprived HenHouse strikes again.
But, hey, he listens to classical music!
You are as dumb as a rock, HenHouse.
The conservative mind is closed very tightly shut.
I respond to Malkin's post a couple times and then get "respond to Malkin's post."
There's really no point in trying to reason with you people. You see nothing wrong with political leaders and actors, not fringe citizens, calling for death and attacks on others.
You will never admit any wrongdoing by Republicans.
You think that rising calls for violence have nothing to do with rising political violence.
You blithely lie about the facts of the political killings of recent years.
Case in point: You now claim the Austin plane crash, done by a guy whop hated the IRS and the government in his own suicide manifesto, was done by a leftist.
Even those his words are echos of the anti-government and anti-bailout Tea Party rhetoric:
Yet, the political “representatives” (thieves, liars, and self-serving scumbags is far more accurate) have endless time to sit around for year after year and debate the state of the “terrible health care problem”.
Dialog is useless? Ah, there, Alphaliberal, you are joining the calls for violence then?
What's useless is the continuance of the brazen hypocrisy on your part. Flailing about as you have been just reinforces it.
Pastafarian:
Alpha, I don't think anyone with credibility has actually seriously put forward the theory that this deranged gunman acted because of George Soros or President Obama
WTF? I never said anyone did.
Do you have an honest bone in your body? My words very clearly do not accuse anyone of that claim.
I simply point out that the hysteria and rhetoric of violence, the defense of the use of weaponry in political activities comes from all levels of the right wing.
Yeah. "culture war." A right wing term, a lot of us on the left wonder what the "war" is all about. Everything is a "war" with you guys. no such thing as an honest disagreement.
For Malkin's list, we can show 10x as much from the right wing. Including nooses, vandalism, Democrats shot dead, etc.
Not one response from conservatives on the attempted Tides Foundation shooting -- you ignore it.
Dishonest creeps.
Here's a nice Facebook group entitled "I Want to Punch Sarah Palin in the face"
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=77141910331
And it has 1247 members. that's 1247 people advocating rhetoric that could get Sarah Palin violently assaulted. And I bet half these people, if not more, immediately blamed Fox News, and tea partiers for promoting violence rhetoric that led to the shooting of the congresswoman.
How does this rank:
When Teresa Heinz-Kerry arrived, she handed me a pin that read in the center: “Asses of Evil” with “Bush”, “Cheney”, “Rumsfeld” and “Ashcroft” surrounding it. She met, greeted and talked to a jam-packed room of Kerry supporters and others who came for the MoveOn documentary [Uncovered, featuring serial liar Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson]…Thanks to Teresa, we kept the party going on, and she helped us here at East Bay for Kerry, throw the Mother of All House Parties.
This was during the 2004 election. The wife of the nominee!
@ShoutingThomas:
Don't you know? Anything and everything from SF, including San Fran Nan is by definition part of the "lunatic fringe". I think we can all agree on that.
@Alpha, have you considered that you are, if anything, even more insane than Loughner?
Yeah, AL. Right. You said someone should be laughed at yesterday.
I think the First Amendment is critical to our identity as a unique nation.
To undermine it by fabricating horror with some mind meld magic at "all the violent rhetoric" of the right is simply bizarre. And dangerous for the republic.
You guys have a rich and evil imaginations and do a helluva alot of projection.
The shooter is clearly a schizophrenic who should have been on medication and under medical care.
You can sweat yourself into a wad trying to apply Alinksy Rule #12 but we're not taking it anymore.
There. That violent enough to set you off? You can project, starting -- Now.
C'mon Alpha! Show us the evidence! Don't just take the word of your handlers. Do some work on your own and show us the evidence!
"Dialog is useless"
Is AL calling for violence?
Yeah. "culture war." A right wing term, a lot of us on the left wonder what the "war" is all about. Everything is a "war" with you guys. no such thing as an honest disagreement.
No, thank God, leftists never employ that tactic.
Susan Faludi's much heralded book: Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women
Alpha, admit it: You are so getting off on all this. It's your validation of every paranoid thought you have about the right.
"Honest disagreement," my ass. That term didn't enter your vocabulary until a half hour ago.
Alpha Liberal wrote:
Not one response from conservatives on the attempted Tides Foundation shooting -- you ignore it.
Dishonest creeps.
What's dishonest is YOU trying to suggest that conservative rhetoric is responsible for this shooting by insinuation when the shooter is obviously deranged, but would fall to the left of the aisle if he were so categorized. So if we are going to say imagery caused him to kill, why is the lefty imagery which he obviously listened to not culpable in your book. Maybe it was all that trutherism he listened to. He called her a fake. Maybe she was a fake because she wasn't liberal enough.
AlphaLibtard: it's sick. They preach hatred and violence and then blame their critics as the pile of bodies grows and grows.
No, you're sick. You need to be committed to a labor camp before you radicalize any more Libtards with your hate speech.
"No, thank God, leftists never employ that tactic.
Susan Faludi's much heralded book: Backlash: The Undeclared War Against American Women"
FDR's War on Poverty?
Oh, and let's not forget, "war on poverty," and "the moral equivalence of war!" It's all war with you guys!
Bill Clinton DECLARES WAR on childhood obesity:
http://www.forbes.com/2005/08/08/clinton-obesity-atkins-cx_gl_0808autofacescan13.html
There should be a rule or law about ending a thread at the first mention of "libtard" or "Rethuglican."
Alpha, you and your peer have been saying the same thing over and over again for the last 3 days.
And it's not working.
You know what that is the definition for, right?
Look, AL, you've shown us all your the full bloom of your excited id repeatedly on these threads. You have way too much work to do at home before you can begin to presume to lecture anyone else on tone. And now, Poor Fellow, since you appear to be resolutely impenetrable, back to 'ignore' for you.
Alpha's trying the Rules for Radicals tactics.
Trying to silence the Right by shaming you with the "how can you say such horrid things" knowing the Right are good and decent people who wouldn't want to say shameful things.
The Left however has no shame nor do they care so they can say whatever they want without remorse.
That lets them set the terms of the debate in their favor.
If you refuse to give in and hold them to the same standard they are forced to deal with just the facts which in the case of the shooting is against them.(politics had nothing to do with it guy was a nut)
Now they will claim that it isn't fair while dismissing any facts that don't support them as irrelevant.
Lather rinse repeat
Alpha, I was explaining why conservative commenters here aren't wasting time listing right-wing transgressions for you.
Because the point that most are trying to make is: There's just as much violent, crazy hate on the left (if not more) than there is on the right.
At 11:56 I listed off 6 actual violent acts by leftists, or left-ish nuts, some of which resulted in multiple deaths. You're throwing this Tides Foundation nut out there; this pales by comparison, doesn't it?
But here you go: Yes, that Tides Foundation shooter (I think he managed to wound one cop) was a nut and an asshole.
Again: Happy?
Do you suppose he did this because someone used the word "campaign" to describe an attempt to get someone elected? Or used the word "target" with respect to the Tides Foundation?
Maybe we should outlaw all criticism of any organization anywhere. You never know how it might be misinterpreted by some wacko with a Glock.
Or maybe we should hold the asshole with the Glock responsible for his own actions.
But keep typing, Alpha. Soros is paying you good money for this, and it sure beats spooning frijoles at Taco Taco.
AL is just like the kid in school that gets caught redhanded and lies like hell about it. He will just keep lying and lying hoping to just wear out his accusers. Then his parents will show up and protest his basic goodness and best intentions and everyone should just pretend to agree with him to protect his delicate sense of self-esteem.
AL has to continue as he does because to admit the truth would destroy his core identity.
AlphaLiberal, MSNBC host Schulz declares "ideological war".
Democrat shill Salon has a blog called "War Room".
Again, your brazen and unrepentent hypocrisy is noted.
You really are not very good at this.
Alpha's back - isn't that cute.
While he's foaming at the mouth over this ephemeral "Republican Senator", maybe he wants to comment on the Politico piece about the "Democratic operative" who wants The Zero to "deftly handle" this the way Willie manipulated the OK City bombing.
edutcher
Just from a Machiavellian point of view, it would take someone a lot smarter than Clinton to turn an event with a much smaller body count into the same resulting political payoff. I believe it's been proven over and over again that the people running the show at 1600 Penn Ave don't have the grapes or the brains for it.
Besides...the guy was a nutjob and not remotely paintable any more as a right-winger than a left-winger. Epic failsauce if they decide to take this tack.
Speaking OF ALINSKY -- Remember? POTUS's "guru." POTUS got paid to teach people how to implement Alinsky's Rules.
RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”
RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.” Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty.
RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.... You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity."
”
RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag. Man can sustain militant interest in any issue for only a limited time...."
RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on, with different tactics and actions, and utilize all events of the period for your purpose."
Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new.
RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist.
RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.” (Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog.)
"The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this unceasing pressure that results in the reactions from the opposition that are essential for the success of the campaign."
[Comment -- so if you can create the perception of violence from the other side ....]
RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.” Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem.
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it. In conflict tactics there are certain rules that [should be regarded] as universalities. One is that the opposition must be singled out as the target and 'frozen.'...
"...any target can always say, 'Why do you center on me when there are others to blame as well?' When your 'freeze the target,' you disregard these [rational but distracting] arguments.... Then, as you zero in and freeze your target and carry out your attack, all the 'others' come out of the woodwork very soon. They become visible by their support of the target...'
"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other." (pps.127-134)
So GM, AL, J et al. You are free to talk and write (First Amendment) but expect us to laugh you out of the house.
Having a conversation about how Palin is responsible is not only unseemly its not even remotely accurate considering there is no evidence that he targeted the congresswoman because of anything that any right wing person ever said.
But lets tske Sarah Palins words at face value. She "targeted" candidates during an election cycle to remove from office through electoral means. Does anyone other than AL really think that she was suggesting that she was targeting them for death or suggesting that they should be killed? THose were the politicians she was suggesting her supporters should campaing against. Other than a crosshair there was nothing even remotely violent in the imagery. And no sane person would view her using a crosshair as anything other than pointing out the politicians to vote against. No sane person is going to look at that imagery and say "we really need to start kiilling politicians".
It is fascinating that a horrid but seemingly politically inert event -albeit the primary target appears to have been the congresswoman but for no known political reason - can so quickly lift the veil from the faces in the leftist fever swamp. It is also interesting to note that there were a large number of victims in this shooting across an array of demographics. This would seem to blunt the "targeting" meme. There is plenty of pathology on display here both on the part of the gunman and on that of the whacko left.
I honestly can't figure out if all these Democrats/Leftists are smoking crack and can't see how bad their side has been the last 10 years or if they are just despicable, venal bastards who have absolutely no integrity and don't care how far into the gutter they have to go to score points.
That probably covers the more cynical political operatives, but I think it's important to remember that your typical leftist is not a deliberately malicious or dishonest person.
Most lefties are simply accustomed to excusing or ignoring the behavior of their fringe element. The media seldom points it out, except to rationalize it away. The ugliness of the far-right serves as fodder for TV morality plays, but the typical cocooned lefty is never required to face the demons they spawn.
And what they experience personally can be easily compartmentalized as non-threatening: deep social commentary, biting humor, avant-garde art, or simply youthful exuberance. Those are good things -- things those less intelligent proles on the right just can't be expected to appreciate or understand.
Does anyone other than AL really think that she was suggesting that she was targeting them for death or suggesting that they should be killed?
Gosh, no, jr. Doing so would require more than a middle-school mentality and more than five years experience with the English language. Who is it that's always school us great unwashed for our lack of subtly and nuance?
Further the crosshairs were not crosshairs but surveyor symbols. These are the areas to target (not with violence).
Are critics of Palin's "target" concept on the phone to France to get the entire department store chain shut down because of the inherent violence that's dripping from their logo?
As there was a feminist movement in the 80's to change all Air Force manuals to remove "cockpit" and instead use "command and control center", will we now have medical procedures that can't target specific ailments?
Will NASA have to come up with different types of dates for a launch?
Gee whiz...the PC we-own-the-language police are going to have to put in some overtime on this one.
Yes, the hypocrisy is right on the surface, but I think there are three aspects of the left's response, lame as it is, worthy of further explication:
1. The first-impressions-last school of lefty journalism. Say it first and say it loud and it will stick no matter how factually wrong.
2. The Oklahoma-City-was-good-for-us school of lefty politics. Don't let crises or tragedies go to waste.
3. And don't forget that the righteous anger from the right expressed at townhalls and such against the left agenda rocked the left back on its heels. There's a fear response going on here too I think.
lol Apha Liberal thinks that "culture war" is violent rhetoric. That's classic stuff.
Any reasonable observer would conclude AL is off his nut, and would probably wonder when he might pop off and become dangerous.
Anyone remember the response to Sandra Bernhard's invitation to Sarah Palin to come to NYC so she could get gang raped by the brothers? She gave it in front of an oh so sophisticated, tolerant, DC crowd. They laughed.
AL? GM? J? 1jpb (or pbj or whatever) ...
From the Mother Jones article, the killer reportedly called a friend before the shooting and left the following message:
"Hey man, it's Jared. Me and you had good times. Peace out. Later."
'Peace out'?
I can PROMISE you this kid had a lot of old, sweat-stained, tie-dyed Che shirts in his bottom drawer.
Just saying.
Here are the dems similarly
Targeting Republican districts with bullseyes even before Palin used similar imagery to target districts that voted for Obamacare.
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253055&kaid=127&subid=171
Note that they use actual bullseyes on the targeted states, and note that they use the phrase "Behind Enemy Lines" to refer to the states won by Bush. The enemy, bullseyes. Sounds like they're adovocating assassinations to me.
How come Alpha Liberal or CNN or any of the liberals never even thought twice to question the violence of said imagery, prior to their attack on Sarah Palin for her use of crosshairs?
Is it crosshairs (or surveyor symbols) that are violent but bullseyes aren't? Can the left be any more hypocritical? Is that possible? Every day I wake up and wonder if the left can sink any lower and every day they do.
Anyone using this tragic event for political gain or political purpose is a scumbag. On the left or on the right. The idea that "the left does this blah blah blah" or "the right does this blah blah blah" is false inflamatory rhetoric that no one should using right now. And particularly with regards to this crime.
Just absurd. So, yeah I'm calling out HuffPo and Hot Air. MSNBC and FOX. The far left and the tea party.
We're all Americans. And most of us are educated enough to know better. Time to move beyond the partisan b.s.
Period.
Matt, if anyone on the right is using this tragedy as a means to score political points, it's only to rebut the scurilous and outlandish charges from the left that the right is responsible for this attack.
Noone on the right is saying lefty rhetoric is responsible for this, they are merely responding to blood libels and slanders. Apparently they are to be faulted for this.
But yes, those on the left using this tragedy to score political points are scumbags. The same scumbags who used Katrina as a racial dialogue, as if George Bush really held back on helping out Katrina victims beause he didn't care for black people. Why are the left always using tragedies to score political points? Why are they such scumbags?
Matt,
Are you calling for a Third Way?
For the record, I agree with you. What do you suppose would happen if everyone using the internet was forced to log in using a profile that perfectly identified them to anyone who cared to look at it? Including address, phone number, etc?
AlphaLiberal said...
Oh, look! An obscure poster! Well that proves -- NOTHING.
Your meltdown has been fun to watch.
I think you should go on pretending there is only 1 poster.
I think you should go on pretending liberals don't openly wish for the death of their political opponents.
Really, I do.
am very willing to criticize wrongdoing from people ideologically close to me. I did so here just yesterday and do it in real life.
Laugh out loud funny.
You've done no such thing.
When presented with Obama's "they bring a knife we bring a gun" comment, you said "nonsense" and dismissed it.
You've spend the rest of the time spewing lies and pretending the left doesn't make comments about violence.
The purpose of the left's stupid charges are to simply shut up their opposition. Period.
You can show all the evidence you want - the left carries the day when it comes to violence/temper tantrums, dating back to the 50's and 60's.
You won't see conservatives or the business community in any file footage initiating thuggery or violence. Why? They're generally busy MINDING THEIR OWN DAMN BUSINESS, working, etc.
If not, where are the examples?
Its always the 'Che' shirt-wearing, union-organizing naredowells, in general the 'demanders' in this country, that start/initiate all the bullshit.
Apparently, they have so much time on their hands they don't need to worry about inane activities like working, or raising a family, and maintaining relationships. You see, people that are responsible in general don't spend their time MAKING DEMANDS of others. They don't spend an inordinate amount of time BLAMING others, either.
This tragedy was perpetrated by a sick and evil person. To attempt to score political points by blaming the opposition is reprehensible.
Matt: So, yeah I'm calling out HuffPo and Hot Air. MSNBC and FOX. The far left and the tea party.
We're all Americans. And most of us are educated enough to know better. Time to move beyond the partisan b.s.
Matt plays the equivalence card to appear "above" it all, and fails.
Hint: No one on Fox or in the Tea Party blamed the shooting on Libtards, even AFTER it was revealed the shooter was a left-wing nut case.
See Matt, you're part of the problem - quite equating what the left does with what the right hasn't done to "damn them all".
Its nonsense and its cowardly.
@chase
"Seriously - has anyone taken the time to view Michelle Malkin's page of left wing hatred from just the last 4 years alone?
You must - you must because there is NO equivalent on the right - NOTHING close in numbers and sheer volume."
I mean aside from all that stuff that comes out of the mouths of the rightwing leadership. And the deeds of all the rightwing extremists who've killed so many of your fellow countrymen.
I remind you that your own Dept of Homeland security is worried mostly about rightwing extremists, NOT leftwing extremists these days.
But hey... don't let the facts get in the way of your beliefs.
@John
I remind you that your own Dept of Homeland security is worried mostly about rightwing extremists, NOT leftwing extremists these days.
lol
Really? I assume this is because of the ideological neutrality test they, from the loliest TSA agent up to Big Sis herself, have to take before joining? Is that a urine test or do they just ask you if you are for or against Obamacare before hiring?
Bad logic, my friend.
@John
"I mean aside from all that stuff that comes out of the mouths of the rightwing leadership. And the deeds of all the rightwing extremists who've killed so many of your fellow countrymen.
I remind you that your own Dept of Homeland security is worried mostly about rightwing extremists, NOT leftwing extremists these days.
But hey... don't let the facts get in the way of your beliefs."
What utter bullshit. What facts? What you've written is your sorry opinion. Not the same as facts.
Shorter John: "I don't have any facts, but I'm very willing to repeat some rumors I heard from my lefty friends."
To John,
Back when Bush was talking about credible threats you on the left said that there was no threat, despite YOUR Homeland Security saying there was. But no, to you lefties Bush was hyping all threats to start wars and enrich his buddies in Haliburton. And to some of you, he was actulaly in on 9/11 and the govt even helped bring down one of the buildings in the WTC for some nefarious purpose. Your side went so far as to say he was not your president (yet you have the gall to suggest that those rooting for Obama to fail are somehow traitors. You think that the left who suggested Bush wasn't even their president wanted him to succeed).
Yet for all the talk about threats, we had a 9/11, we had the Shoe Bomber and the underwear bomber, and various other terrorist attacks or potential attacks.
What do you have to suggest that there is some right wing militia threat? Nothing. You're full of crap.
According to the extremely poorly written headline, either no one is responsible or everyone is. If the vicious left wing rhetoric is "just as vicious as Sarah Palin's" then Sarah's rhetoric is as vicious as the left wing's.
Or did you all over look the premise?
Re Rules For Radicals, what exactly are we to say about "Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it"? That does sound rather, um, violent. And "personalized."
If the vicious left wing rhetoric is "just as vicious as Sarah Palin's" then Sarah's rhetoric is as vicious as the left wing's.
Or did you all over look the premise?
I'm not aware of any "vicious" rhetoric from Palin. That's mostly your (and the media's) invention.
Nonetheless, I haven't been arguing in favoring of censoring the left.
The left is hateful as hell, no doubt. But, I'm not in favor of censoring, or even attempting to stop hate speech, even by the left.
@HDH
"According to the extremely poorly written headline, either no one is responsible or everyone is. If the vicious left wing rhetoric is "just as vicious as Sarah Palin's" then Sarah's rhetoric is as vicious as the left wing's.
Or did you all over look the premise?"
Its not a 'premise', HD. Just a bad tagline. If you believe that it somehow represents some premise involving Sarah Palin, I call bullshit.
The only person responsible is the evil creep that pulled the trigger. NOT 'everyone', at all.
Speak for yourself.
Sarah Palin's very existence is hateful to the left. They can't stand her Christianity, her family values, her hunting activities. Everything about her makes them be filled with wild-eyed rage.
Oh, rats. Sorry, JAL. You were on the Alinsky case ages ago. That's what I get for not reading the whole thread first.
wv: movel — a really, really portable novel, I presume.
@Alex
"Sarah Palin's very existence is hateful to the left. They can't stand her Christianity, her family values, her hunting activities. Everything about her makes them be filled with wild-eyed rage."
Yeah they tend to get pretty emotional, even exorcised over Palin. I tell the females I know that go that route that they are simply jealous and get over it.
Fen
Thanks dude for calling me a coward. The fact remains that you use the tern 'Libtards' which means you are one of those making this a political issue. I am indeed rising above it all. When this tragedy happened the last thing I thought was that Sarah Palin had anything to do with this. I was shocked to see some of the partisan coverage. Still am amazed - although I probably should not be.
The left has a tendency to look at tragedies and blame gun laws, or video games or political climate or Glenn Beck. And so to those who would do that I say they fail.
But in this case the right gets really defensive and points back and says "Oh yeah well blah blah blah."
Here is what I am saying. It's fucking boring. It's time for people to grow up and be adults. Including you friend. The left is wrong to do what it is doing right now. Ignore them or you are playing the same game. Time to start acting like a human being - not a partisan hack.
Scott M said...
edutcher
Just from a Machiavellian point of view, it would take someone a lot smarter than Clinton to turn an event with a much smaller body count into the same resulting political payoff. I believe it's been proven over and over again that the people running the show at 1600 Penn Ave don't have the grapes or the brains for it.
You're probably right, but that doesn't mean they (MSM)'re not trying (how much encouragement is coming from the WH, DNC, or Demo caucus we shall see). I agree the body of evidence is huge and the Left is only going rue the day on this one.
HDHouse said...
According to the extremely poorly written headline, either no one is responsible or everyone is. If the vicious left wing rhetoric is "just as vicious as Sarah Palin's" then Sarah's rhetoric is as vicious as the left wing's.
No, it's sufficiently well-written, HD's mind is insufficiently well-read.
I would like to add to the list, an assault between two of my female friends when the liberal one bit the other on the arm when she admitted to voting for George W. Bush. That may have started it all.
In defense of that picture, though, I'll note that it appears to be more Anarchist than Leftist.
Note how it attacks "all leaders", and especially note the presence of Yasser Arafat, not exactly a typical Left target.
I agree the body of evidence is huge and the Left is only going rue the day on this one.
I don't know about that one. How much ruing did they do after the Times Square incident and all of the light-speed jumps to blaming the Tea Party?
AlphaLiberal: "Sarah Palin and the Tea Party movement encourage hatred and violence!"
Questioner: "How do you know?"
AlphaLiberal: "Because whenever I think about them, I’m filled with hate and a desire to do harm!"
Hat tip to Glenn Reynolds
No calls for Professor Althouse to change her tagline yet? "Eating intellectually inert brats" Violent! And canibalistic!
matt,
Unfortunately, when the media says something untrue, it is assumed to be true, unless a srong response is made quickly. (ANd event hat doesn't always help.)
Plenty of examples in the things that were said about Pres Bush, or Gov Palin.
Best explanation of the liberal idiots today from George Will:
Now we have explainers. They came into vogue with the murder of President Kennedy. They explained why the "real" culprit was not a self-described Marxist who had moved to Moscow, then returned to support Castro. No, the culprit was a "climate of hate" in conservative Dallas, the "paranoid style" of American (conservative) politics, or some other national sickness resulting from insufficient liberalism.
This McCarthyism of the left - devoid of intellectual content, unsupported by data - is a mental tic, not an idea but a tactic for avoiding engagement with ideas. It expresses limitless contempt for the American people, who have reciprocated by reducing liberalism to its current characteristics of electoral weakness and bad sociology.
I mean aside from all that stuff that comes out of the mouths of the rightwing leadership. And the deeds of all the rightwing extremists who've killed so many of your fellow countrymen.
Note that no examples are given.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Alpha and HD: Be careful or we will get Palin to make you do something really awful.
My favorite piece of overheated rhetoric:
"But President Barack Obama wasn't in a mood to hear them out. He stopped the conversation and offered a blunt reminder of the public's reaction to such explanations. 'Be careful how you make those statements, gentlemen. The public isn't buying that.'
"'My administration,' the president added, 'is the only thing between you and the pitchforks.'"
I've always taken that as a pretty explicit threat of violence, of 'do as I say or I'll unleash the mob'. And it was applauded.
Matt: Here is what I am saying. It's fucking boring. It's time for people to grow up and be adults. Including you friend. The left is wrong to do what it is doing right now. Ignore them or you are playing the same game. Time to start acting like a human being - not a partisan hack.
Bullshit. You're drawing false equivalence because you don't have the balls to come out and say that the Left is solely responsible for all the hatred they have formented.
I'm so sick of cowards like you saying "boths sides are just as guilty" when thats clearly not the case. They do the same thing with the Israeli/Pali conflict, to take on airs of false sophistication. Its a feeble attempt to cloak yourself as being "above the fray" when all you are really doing is enabling the perps who forment hate.
And the only reason you enable them is so you can feel good about yourself. Its a cheap construct.
Have the balls to call a spade a spade.
Speaking of hat tips, I never saw one liberal pundit even come close to admitting that so many people had met in so many places with so little violence (none, that I'm aware of) and so little damage to property (none, that I'm aware of). Even grudgingly admitting it would be "progressive".
No, they would rather bleet and bray about thuggish behavior at town hall meetings. It could never, of course, be the case that a great many people had fundamental problems with the way they were trying to do things. In fact, in the wake of Obamacare's passage, it was all about how badly they got the message out and how happy people would be once they understood it.
What we saw in 2010 wasn't a revolution in the Che patina, much as your average progressive longs to be a part of something like Che and Castro wrought. We saw a lot of people finally wake up from their Silent Majority slumber and draw a line in the sand...peacefully.
The left isn't jealous of the Tea Party because they themselves don't do revolutions that way (see Che, above) and it makes no sense to them. After all, how do you get CEO and world leader attention without millions of dollars in property damage?
Trooper York: I don't believe for one minute that a Republican Senator said any such thing. It is a fabrication. You can not trust anything the mainstream media says without attribution. They have lied too many times.
I dunno. Establishment RINOs are as unhappy as their Democrat bros about "populists" busting up their pleasant little one-party racket. They'd be delighted to have all the little troublemakers of recent years discredited and the threat to the status quo neutralized. I can definitely hear some Republican senator saying that.
On the other hand, I can easily imagine some hack pulling it out of his ass. Toss up.
"The real insanity and madness is coming from the right wing, where up is down and white is black and anyone who disagrees with the party line of the day is painted as an enemy of America. "
Is it not the left wing climate alarmists that have created cold heat? Where record freezing cold ice and snowstorms are proof positive of warming?
Where the left think that the way to economic security is to pay off record debts with record borrowing?
Where disarming the public makes them safe from armed criminals
and where dividing the population along lines of race and sexual preference and then pandering and giving special protection to all sorts of minority groups is the route to social harmony.
And where an extreme left wing, apparently Satanic, drug addled psychopath is somehow supporting Palin by going on a shooting spree.
Logic is not used much by the left is it.
I mean c'mom Matt, have some frickin integrity. The Left is politicizing this to marginalize the Right, solely for political points, and all you can do is throw your hands up and whine "both sides need to stop"
You know where you can stick that.
Matt; That is a very nice sentiment and a strategy that worked for many many year, pre internet. But that is precisely what the conservatives have done for years, ignore the accusations and falsehoods, the insinuations and lies. No more. And that refusal to go along is what has cobbled the left and why these efforts to make a case for Palin or the tea party movement to be behind a terrible murderous insane man is driving the left nuts. Because we now have the record at hand, the crazy left's continuous hatred of GWB, the unhinged hatred of Palin. And we will not shut up. So try toning in down by shutting up the left. Try getting all nice and polite by keeping quiet. Because we won't.
Jay to John: "I mean aside from all that stuff that comes out of the mouths of the rightwing leadership. And the deeds of all the rightwing extremists who've killed so many of your fellow countrymen."
Note that no examples are given.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Stuff, Jay. They did STUFF. And things. They said THINGS. GEDDIT???!?!?!?!
God you wingnuts are thick.
Roger J.-
"...May I suggest not a hell of a lot of people read the NYT..."
You can suggest it but that would be misleading. In case anyone didn't know the NYTimes is like AP in that the stories (and op-eds) it carries are carried by other papers around the country, including here in my own home delivered Houston Chronicle. Even dreck like that pitiful McCain almost-maybe-could be-but-not-really affair story is carried here, and the Chronicle is considered to "conservative" paper by many.
That's why what the NYTimes publishes is "important" to whatever extent that's true. Otherwise it would just be a curiosity.
---
Hah!
wv : interget : The 21st century name for online shopping.
lyssalovelyredhead,
No calls for Professor Althouse to change her tagline yet? "Eating intellectually inert brats"? Violent! And cannibalistic!
I always assumed she was talking about bratwurst, myself. I have never found one that was anything but intellectually inert.
Stuff, Jay. They did STUFF. And things. They said THINGS. GEDDIT???!?!?!?!
Ah, thanks for clearing that up.
Was the 'stuff' they said like this?
That Scott down there that's running for governor of Florida," Mr. Kanjorski said. "Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him.
Because it is funny how the left is carrying on in vague terms and yet very specific examples can be given where the left has fantasized about and wished death upon their political adversaries.
Gee, I wonder why that is?
Ann:
Did you ever accept "but they do it too" as an excuse for bad behaviour from children or your students? (Plagiarism and cheating may be commonplace, but that doesn't make it right.)
Two (or a thousand) wrongs don't make a right. And, personally, when you've got to point at the extreme-left to make excuses for the extreme right, you've pretty much admitted defeat as soon as you've opened your mouth.
Nonsense, Craig, the whole claim is that only Republican rhetoric is violent.
That's being refuted. It is not a case of "you do it too".
I always assumed she was talking about bratwurst, myself. I have never found one that was anything but intellectually inert.
I dunno about that. There's a German butcher near my mother-in-law's house, and his brat(wurst)s are way more intellectually aware than some pre-meds I had to teach back in my university days (daze?).
Fen
Yeah, but the problem is you don't see human beings and human behavior. You only see right and left or Palestinian and Israeli, etc. And in your view one side is always right and one side is always wrong. Sometimes that is the case. Right now as we speak, yes, the 'left' is wrong. But it doesn't make the 'right' right.
I just read a smart post by Jazz Shaw over at Hot Air and have to say he has attempted to rise above the fray but he admits that even he has failed a bit. That is what I am talking about. He can say the left is wrong but he can see the right getting pretty crazy too.
You seem to think the left's reaction is a specific trait of the left. What a joke. It is actually a trait of being a partisan hack - and there are plenty on both sides. If you don't understand this basic human principle then perhaps you should open a book and learn some history.
But, sure, some on the left handling this all wrong. They are idiots. But they can't help it because they are merely human. Ignore them.
Rather than ignore them we should meet them head on and rub their noses in the shit that they spew. Target them for metaphorical assassnation, and point out their unending hypocricy on this and most other issues. Since by ignoring them they're not in fct gong to stop.
Remember when we had the last shooting, by the Muslim guy? Didn't bloomber conjecture that he was a disgruntled tea partier who was mad at Obama care? LEft to their own devices libs will spread any amount of libelous smears on their opponents, and the solution is to smack them in the mouth (metaphoricall) not keep allowing them to keep spewing their garbage.
Matt: You seem to think the left's reaction is a specific trait of the left.
Its is. They use their dead as poltical props (Wellstone, Correta King, Ted Kennedy, Elizabeth Edwards) and every time some wacko goes on a rampage, they use it to marginalize the right before the facts have even settled in.
So you're not one to lecture us about reading our History.
Your comments attempt to tar both the left and the right with the same brush, yet you have NO examples of the right doing what they routinely do.
Its sloppy, self-serving and cowardly. Have the balls to call perps out without resorting to the same old tired "both sides are just as bad" nonsense.
Jay: Ah, thanks for clearing that up.[...]
Because it is funny how the left is carrying on in vague terms and yet very specific examples can be given where the left has fantasized about and wished death upon their political adversaries.
Yes, it is funny. That's why I was making fun of them.
GEDDIT?!?!?!?!
The caps and the crazed punctuation are usually the giveaway.
Though, to be fair, I guess it is hard to spot parodies of people who are already parodies of themselves.
Fen
It's not nonsense. You are a partisan ALWAYS. I am not. I'm smart enough to know human behavior. And btw you guys never use Reagan as an example for anything do you? Heh.
But let me keep this simple. When I heard news of this tragedy I didn't look for a political angle. I didn't blame Arizona's political climate. I didn't blame gun laws. I didn't blame video games. I didn't blame Palin. I thought it was a tragedy carried out by a maniac. Pure and simple. I still think that. As do most Americans - including Democrats
What about you? I'm guessing you went to HuffPo or turned on MSNBC just so you could spout off about how awful the coverage was.
Bipartisanship, Matt, just means that both sides agree to spend more money than we take in.
I skimmed the comments and didn't see this story:
The sheriff may be making outrageous statements to cover up the fact that his office dropped the ball on this kid.
They know him quite well from many telephoned threats to various people. The fact that his mother is a county employee may have be a motive to treat him with kid gloves. That blew up in their faces and it will eventually come out.
They were telling people who called about threats not to file a formal complaint as he was being cared for by mental health people. A lie.
In regards to the "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" ratings and Loughner's psychosis, it's.....about neck and neck with the loudmouth Limbaughians slightly ahread of the sentimental hysteria-crats, with Billy Rivers Pitt (and his pseudo-crat bootlickers such as one "Byronius" of New Worlds) recently adding a whole new batch of whiny, self-indulgent ....pseudo-accusations (raw meat, AA-cheks!).
A reasonable person (a rarity) should recognize the causal fallacy (ie PHEPH), and admit that Palin or Foxnews or the NRA didn't do it, nor did any of Loughner's fave books, even Mein Kampf-- however some of the heated rhetoric have been relevant. But AZ handgun laws, among the most lax in the naxion (and approved by the NRA, thus by Palin, et al), definitely played a part in the tragedy. Had there been a psych. check along with the usual background search, Loughner probably would not have been able to obtain the glock .
nonsense Robin. that was never the claim. never. ever.
lol Apha Liberal thinks that "culture war" is violent rhetoric. That's classic stuff.
Not what I said in the slightest. I said "where is the war" and that we don't get it. The only ones using that "Culture War" term are right wingers.
Pretty standard misrepresentation and lies from the right wing.
We are not at war on cultural issues. We have disagreements.
My original comment:
Yeah. "culture war." A right wing term, a lot of us on the left wonder what the "war" is all about. Everything is a "war" with you guys. no such thing as an honest disagreement. .
Matt part of the problem with ignoring the shenanginas of the other side is that you often don't in fact ignore them but rather let them run with the ball unimpeded. You cede the argument to them.
As but one example. Around the time of Katrina the media was talking about how we needed to have racial dialogues to address what happened in Katrina. But why? Only if we bought the argument that Bush somehow was negigent in his treatment of NO becuase of racial animus, otherwise it was a racial discussion completely irrelevant to the matter at hand, kind of like the discussoin about how Palin is to blame is not really relevant to the matter at hand. It's merely one side stating a narrative that we should abide by. If we ignore it, then they simply spread that narrative, and I don't buy the narrative for a second. Nor will I let serial offenders get away with spreading a one sided and false narrative. Which is why I, and others posted the link that shows that the democrats, prior to Palin ever using crosshairs to target those that needed to be removed electorally, similarly used a map where the states they were targeting electorally were marked with bullseyes. Becasue they argument being suggested that Palin is some extremist is UTTER BULLSHIT. Unless you want to argue that the dems in targeting those states were similarly engaging in extremist rhetoric. Are you incapable of understanding metaphors? Are you really that dense?
If I saw the graphic of the dems in 2004 or 2007 when it came out I wouldn't think for a second that they were actually suggesting that those states would be targeted for assassination even though they were "behind enemy lines" and even though the states have bulleyes on them. It's a metaphor (like Palin saying we need to rearm, rather than retreating, just like Obama saying "“If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun,” Obama said in Philadelphia last night. “Because from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl. I’ve seen Eagles fans.” is not actually suggesting that the republicans would bring a knife to the fight and that the dems would respond with guns. Any serious person is not going to hol Obama to a literal translation of that statement. But maybe, we should. It was a blue dog dem and republican apppointed judge killed. Maybe this killer took Obama's words to heart. He, too, might have enjoyed a good brawl.
It's pretty sleazy when I say it, and it's just as sleazy when dems and libs say it. I'm only saying it to rebut the sleaziness of libs, who seem to have no qualms about using this day to besmirch Palin.
And I won't let them get away with it. So Sorry, you can ignore the character assassination at foot. I, rather, will target those attempting the assassination and snipe at them so they can't get away with their (metaphorical) killing.
Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."
ha ha!! Do you think all the crazed nutjobs out there got the joke?
More examples of exhortations to violence from one of the Republican Party's intellectual heavyweights:
Ann Coulter:
"My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building."
"We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed too."
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
"I have to say I'm all for public flogging."
"My libertarian friends are probably getting a little upset now but I think that's because they never appreciate the benefits of local fascism."
"In this recurring nightmare of a presidency, we have a national debate about whether he [Clinton] 'did it,' even though all sentient people know he did. Otherwise there would be debates only about whether to impeach or assassinate."
Alpha,
I and a few others have posted the graphic of the map on the DLC website where they "targeted" states that were "behind enemy lines" which were won by Bush, with "bullseyes".
Would you acknowledge that that is war terminology and that the noone could infer that the dems were actually going to war in those states, nor were the states really behind enemy lines, nor did the fact that they used bullseye graphics suggest that they were actually going to target those states with guns.
If that is the case, then aren't all the points made about Palins extremist rhetoric similarly groundless? So what do you have,that Palin used a gun metaphor to describe a fight? Anything else? No? Bubkus?
So, you're pretty much full of it right? Or incapable of understanding metaphors. Or think only democrats and liberal can use metaphors, but that republicans using the same metaphors are serious.
And don't you feel kind of sleazy using this incident to promulgate your Sarah Palin bashing? I know I think a lot less of you (if that's possible). it's too bad youre incapable of self reflection but that is a common flaw amongst hypocrites and liars.
Matt: You seem to think the left's reaction is a specific trait of the left. What a joke. It is actually a trait of being a partisan hack - and there are plenty on both sides. If you don't understand this basic human principle then perhaps you should open a book and learn some history.
But, sure, some on the left handling this all wrong. They are idiots. But they can't help it because they are merely human. Ignore them.
Oh stuff it, Pollyanna.
Note to partisan lefty hacks on the down low: fluttering in with the concern-trolling after you get called on your psycho shit-slinging ain't really working for ya.
I am indeed rising above it all.
Yeah. That's why you're here concern-trolling the tends-to-the-right crowd.
Bill O'Reilly:
"They ought to hang this Soros guy."
Now I think a lot of sane conservatives see this stuff, roll their eyes, and just think of it as a joke. Aaaaah, not everyone knows if they're joking or gets the "nuance".
I don't know who this writer is, but he has a real good take:
[Republicans are in ] a tough spot these days partly because it’s impossible for them to mount the defense of their rhetoric that is true: “I am a frivolous person, and I don’t choose my words based on their meaning. Rather, I behave like the worst caricature of a politician. If you think my rhetoric logically implies that people should behave violently, you’re mistaken – neither my audience nor my peers in the conservative movement are engaged in a logical enterprise, and it’s unfair of you to imply that people take what I say so seriously that I can be blamed for a real world event. Don’t you see that this is all a big game? This is how politics works. Stop pretending you’re not in on the joke.”
The big problem being it's not a joke and a lot of people take it seriously.
We've been asking conservatives to tone down the eliminationist rhetoric for years -- it's not a partisan request -- instead they've ratcheted it up.
@Alpha:
Where in any of that political speech is an incitement to violence?
If Rush or Coulter said, "My minions, rise up, get your guns and kill every last muthafuckin' liberal scumbag traitor you can get your hands on," then you might have a point.
That would be incitement. You got nothin'.
Penn Jillette tweeted awhile ago, and I agree completely:
Fuck Civility. Hyperbole, passion, and metaphor are beautiful parts of rhetoric. Marketplace of ideas can not be toned down for the insane
To which I would add, "...and morons like AlphaLiberal."
Insofar that the rightist wingnuts and NRA-at-any cost support Zona's lax handgun laws, they're.....implicated. Indeed, the gun store owner/counter-bot should probably be held liable ( one of the AA shysters would recall some negligence law).
Alpha Liberal wrote:
Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don’t kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus -- living fossils -- so we will never forget what these people stood for."
so Rush said this along time ago. How is the conservative pogrom of liberals on campus going? With all that rash of killing of libs on college campused around the country, i figure we'd be down to about 5 liberals per campus. I guess those conservative killers need a few more years.
Oh wait, nothing of the sort has ever happened. So then, obviously Rush Limbaugh wasn't in fact seriously arguing that anyone should be killed (he was merlely offering "A Modest Proposal" as it were). And even if he were serious, the fact that nothing of the sort actually occured suggests that noone took it seriously either. Mabye the problem is you are too literal and can't understand the nuances of satire.
@Alpha:
We've been asking conservatives to tone down the eliminationist rhetoric for years -- it's not a partisan request -- instead they've ratcheted it up.
Damn, but you've got some chutzpah!
I will give you this: you do know how to stay on message for your masters. You're one tenacious sonofabitch.
But you're still wrong, wrong, wrong.
jr565:
Alpha,
I and a few others have posted the graphic of the map on the DLC website where they "targeted" states that were "behind enemy lines" which were won by Bush, with "bullseyes".
Would you acknowledge that that is war terminology and that the noone could infer that the dems were actually going to war in those states, nor were the states really behind enemy lines, nor did the fact that they used bullseye graphics suggest that they were actually going to target those states with guns.
Well, full disclosure: I'm no fan of the DLC. (DINOs who constantly mimic Republicans).
The targets in question are actually archery targets, so that's qualitatively different than rifle scope crosshairs used at the same time the pol using it says "RELOAD." You know, the targets would receive the arrows, not real live people.
"Behind enemy lines" is a real bad choice of words for similar reasons that Palin's language is bad. Also bad because those aren't enemies, they are other Americans and if you treat them like enemies you won't win their votes.
The context is far far different. No DLCers talking about hanging or shooting anyone. No Democratic candiates, unlike Rand Paul, with actual armed militias at their rallies, sporting assault weapons.
Life calls. Please see this post with an open mind. Why do we need weapons brandished at candidate events? Why do we need supporters of major Senate candidates saying things like this?
Regardless, the founders made sure we had plan B (holds up his gun). You know what that is.
The treasonous left wing socialist politicians, and their lapdogs in the press, have gotten a wedgie here recently in their underpants over the tea parties. And a little broken glass (wink, wink).
wink wink references Krystalnacht, no doubt.
Like the Tories of old, the worst shall be hung, most will be exiled, and I’m a contractor so I have a little bit of tar and feathers for those who are only partially guilty.
No Republicans, to my knowledge, criticized this!!
@J
Dude. Really. Go back and get your GED. Moronic thoughts aside, you're painful to read.
Or are you just one of those edgy hAX0r guys?
And don't you [addressed to AphaLiberal] feel kind of sleazy using this incident to promulgate your Sarah Palin bashing?
If he was capable of feeling shame or embarrassment, or even grasping the concept of shame or embarrassment, then he wouldn't be a liberal, would he?
Chef, leave my mama out of it!
;-p
Alpha Liberal wrote:
The context is far far different. No DLCers talking about hanging or shooting anyone. No Democratic candiates, unlike Rand Paul, with actual armed militias at their rallies, sporting assault weapons.
How is Palin talking about shooting people? I can prove to you that it was simply a metaphor. She said dont retreat, reload (paraphrasing). If she is exhorting people to reload, then they had to have already fired their weapons and run out of bullets. So lets track all the news stories where Palin's supporteres fired bullets at candidates and then ran out of bullets, and have to be told to reload. there aren't any. Because no such events ever took place. Because she was simply using a metaphor to describe a political "battle". If they've already "fired their weapons" (and removed people from office through voting) then she can't possibly be literal when she tells people to rearm themselves rather than surrender. she's saying, don't stop the fight now, there's more ground to win. Should she use baseball metaphors instead. Don't give up now there's still three more outs to go and we can still get even more runs.
Or why not hold Obama accountable for his statement: “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gunBecause from what I understand, folks in Philly like a good brawl."
I'm no fan of Obama, but I'm certainly not going to suggest that he was in any way literal in this statement. As if there would actually be a brawl, as if the congress is the Greasers versus teh Soce's and the republicans are literally bringing knives into congress and the dems are literally bringing guns to the fight. Obama is simply saying the dems will outfight the republicans. Should we view Obama's statements as a literal call to violence? Shouldn't you?
Mojo-dolt, maybe lets compare our GPAs---or GRE scores, psycho. Or comp. certs for that matter
Now, did you google "post hoc ergo proper hoc" yet? Or do they have net access at the Peoria IHOP employee's lounge ?
At least put the Tuscon gunstore owner on trial for selling a semi to psychotics. Even semi-rational Reaganites should agree with that.
Now back to the Limbaughzo imitator contest. Like yr jefe Limbaugh, you have no arguments, no evidence, no.....soul for that matter. Just populist Bozo's, an insult even to Edmund Burke (not to say...demonicas)
We've been asking conservatives to tone down the eliminationist rhetoric for years -- it's not a partisan request
Hysterical.
Yet you won't even acknowledge that the left wishes death on their political adversaries with regularity.
But it isn't partisan, you're stupid "request"
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