Said one of Jared Loughner's friends.
For those of you who still want to argue, straining against the evidence, that the terrible political rhetoric pushed Loughner over the line, let me help you. I've studied law for 30 years, and I know how to extract an argument using what little is available.
Ready?
Here goes...
The overheated rhetoric in America was so repugnant that Jared Loughner couldn't bear to engage with it. Alienated and left to his own thoughts, he became mentally disordered, leading to the massacre. If only the political debate had been more gentle and inviting, he might have watched television and listened to the radio, and then his mind would have contained more conventional ideas, precluding the insane, murderous thoughts.
AND: I was just talking with Meade about my (deliberately strained) theory, and he said that a young guy like Loughner would not have been drawn in by more politely stated political commentary. A marginal individual — especially a person with a propensity toward violence — would probably be susceptible to more aggressive, more vivid commentary. What did Loughner consume instead of politics? Wasn't it violent video games and movies? By contrast, the news — even the commentary pundits decry as vicious — would seem bland and insipid.
We've read that Loughner had a grudge against Gabrielle Giffords because she wouldn't answer the question "What is government if words have no meaning?" He seems to have decided she was stupid and fake. If that was his tendency, toned-down rhetoric wouldn't have been what would reincorporate him into the political community where he might be influenced by others and come to believe more normal things. He seems to have wanted to talk philosophically about what's really true, beneath the surface of things, beyond the platitudes.
Now, I think he was psychotic, in which case, none of this explanation applies, but let's assume you want to work with the idea that he was a marginal citizen who might have been normalized if the community socialized him more appropriately with debate and dialogue. What could have reached him? Probably not some namby-pamby paragon of niceness.
January 12, 2011
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244 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 244 of 244garage: "minor health insurance reform legislation"
That reminds when Napolitano and the DHS report came out warning of increases in anti-government plots from skinheads and neo-nazis - and [...] Malkin [...] howled with outrage.
Link it.
Garage,
The two major complaints that people had were about a section of the DHS report that used opposition to abortion and immigration as examples of extremist positions, and two sections that seemed to single out veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan as potential domestic terrorists.
That reminds when Napolitano and the DHS report came out warning of increases in anti-government plots from skinheads and neo-nazis - and Limbaugh and Malkin and the right wing blogs howled with outrage.
That was just part of the ongoing politicization of the Justice Department. When we're back in power we'll do a "report" on lefties so you guys won't feel left out.
On second thought.. how can we expect people who never stepped inside a church to be solemn at a memorial service ;)
Daydreaming about that "BETTER World"...
Hey, Althouse set it up that way, so don't go blaming. Least...just yet.
The question on her table is, "What could have reached him?"...and the implied..."to make a difference, against all odds".
This is from a Democrat Congressman who served for more than 25 years and is a member in good standing with the Lefty establishment:
"That Scott down there that’s running for governor of Florida,” Mr. Kanjorski said. “Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him [sic] and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him. He stole billions of dollars from the United States government and he’s running for governor of Florida. He’s a millionaire and a billionaire. He’s no hero. He’s a damn crook. It’s just we don’t prosecute big crooks.“
Keep talking, Alex, about vague allusions and twisted metaphors by conservatives. Just don't forget to protest the bloodlust of one of the Democrat Party's lifelong standard bearers.
Political rhetoric is a second cousin to gossip.
There's something creepily sexual about Alpha's hysterical persecution fantasies. What a weirdo.
For this to appear like a campaign stop is the worst possible thing that Team Democrat could do to itself right now...
well, that is all they know.
Everything is political to leftists. Everything, which is why they reacted to the shooting by blaming the Tea Party.
"Political rhetoric is a second cousin to gossip."
Do the math!
Attend and you get a souvenir t-shirt... it's essentially a "my congressperson got shot and all I got was this lousey t-shirt" t-shirt.
Ten bucks says this was cooked up by the same genius who recommended giving Queen Elizabeth that iPod.
Two of Obamas cabinet officers have seen fit to read a bible verse and not feed political meat to the stronghold.
Joe I read about the woman candidate in the San Diego Tribune feature section on Monday, I believe, but did not write down her name etc, but remembered it because of the irony, as some have pointed out, that a person who advocates for gun control has received so many death threats that now she travels with an armed guard.Apparently the universe we all live in is one where we mark folks who disagree with our view point with death threats. It is an interesting universe that we live in where we are now considering putting up bullet proof screens for congress.
The way you guys freak out over such a simple request is pretty telling.
You mean the one to tone down the rhetoric?
Yeah, it is telling that people don't respond well to what they perceive as hypocrisy. It tells you they are paying attention.
Or was there some other request?
Obama is doing w/o a teleprompter..
"Obama is doing w/o a teleprompter."
Here's hoping, Lem!
Obama has just rejected the Sheriff's speculation that uncivil vitriol caused the tragedy.
@Julius at 7:04 - agreed!
@Alex
"...but in their hearts they are flaming anarchists."
Did you have to go and drag the Weather Underground into this???
@Paco Wove'
"There's something creepily sexual about Alpha's hysterical persecution fantasies. What a weirdo."
Yes, asexual. Weird indeed.
wv - herup
Use in a sentence - oh never mind!!!
Whoever decided to put those T-shirts there is likely going to be looking for a job tomorrow.
All of this hysteria trying to lay blame on anyone but the shooter reminds me of a story I remember from a few years back. Apparently, some dope walked into either a school or a bank displaying a picture of a gun. A freakout ensued and whomever was 'brandishing' the picture of the gun was arrested. Now I don't recommend anyone doing this, but a picture???? I'd like to know if this anecdote is true. Wouldn't surprise me.
Isn't it just like liberals to to want to censor and/or silence people they disagree with?
Its one thing to yell 'fire' in a movie house...
Yes, I long for the more settled days - flag burning, BushHitler, Piss Christ.
Nothing to see here. Move along. Just the 1st amendment rights being exercised by good liberals.
U want an Obama Cheese Sandwich or u want Palin's "blood libel"?
Here's the Presidential cheese:
...He paid special tribute to Christina Taylor Green, the 9-year-old girl, born on Sept. 11, 2001, who had come to meet Giffords out of a sense of civic duty.
"She saw all this through the eyes of a child, undimmed by the cynicism or vitriol that we adults all too often just take for granted," Obama said...
Cynicism and vitriol... oh the dreaded double-baddie combination! The President is really pulling out all the rhetorical maneuvers he can!
Obama continued:
"I want us to live up to her expectations. I want our democracy to be as good as she imagined it....If there are rain puddles in heaven, Christina is jumping in them today..."
Rain puddles in fucking heaven! The President speaks of the terrible death of an innocent nine-year-old child and ends up digging like a lonely pensioner through the bargain basement of rhetoric.
I know what you are thinking:
"Puh-leeze come back to Earth, Mr. President!". He does:
And here on Earth, we place our hands over our hearts, and commit ourselves as Americans to forging a country that is forever worthy of her gentle, happy spirit."
The Messiah Obama even brings sight to the blind:
Obama drew a standing ovation as he announced that Giffords had opened her eyes for the first time shortly after he left her hospital room, where he had stopped beforce he came to the service. The crowd leaped to its feet.
And what's this little tidbit:
Audience members cheered and hollered throughout the service, at times making it appear more like a political rally than a somber memorial service.
That can't be good!
I think "blood libel" won the day... at least it was more thought-provoking that the President's blah blah blah.
Apparently the universe we all live in is one where we mark folks who disagree with our view point with death threats.
Who is "we"? Is that you? It isn't me. It isn't anyone I know, and I live in San Diego.
There are 3,001,072 people in San Diego county. Around 1% of humans are psychopathic and/or suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, which means that San Diego's got about 30,000 of them. So yes, duh, politicians get death threats. It would be shocking if they didn't.
Re the San Diego anti-gun candidate -- no surprise there. (If she seriously pursues it, wouldn't surprsie me is she changes her position in a couple years.)
Rosie O'Donnell is anti-gun. Apparently she had a body guard who applied for a concealed carry permit.
What's good for the goose ...
Isn't good for the little people.
"So far we've got:
* Sarah Palin's "don't retreat, reload"
* Sharon Angle's "2nd amendment solutions"
* tea partiers showing up to town hall meetings with AR-15s
* death threats from right-wingers
* bricks thrown through windows of Democrat congress people"
And so far we've got:
* A Tea Party vendor beaten up by union thugs in St. Louis
* A Tea Party attendee's finger bitten off
* The office of Congressman Cantor shot up
* A Republican couple beaten so severely they were hospitalized with broken bones
* Rep. Kanjorski advocating throwing a Republican candidate against the wall and shooting him
* This from Chris Matthews: "You guys see Live and Let Die, the great Bond film with Yaphet Kotto as the bad guy, Mr. Big? In the end they jam a big CO2 pellet in his face and he blew up. I have to tell you, Rush Limbaugh is looking more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody's going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he's going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet. But we'll be there to watch. I think he's Mr. Big, I think Yaphet Kotto. Are you watching, Rush?"
* And there's this:
Bill Maher : You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.
John Kerry : Or, I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.
* And this: A Philadelphia man has been arrested and charged with threatening to kill the Republican party whip in the U.S. House of Representatives, officials announced today.
* There's also the repeated attempts to riot at the Republican National Convention. (When has anyone ever rioted at the Democratic National Convention, besides the Democrats themselves, of course - 1968)
* Etc. ad nauseaum
And I don't know this for a fact but I'd be highly surprised if Sarah Palin hasn't been getting death threats for the last two years.
So this meme you're trying to sell like day old bread that there's an epidemic of violence and violent rhetoric on the right, and the left is all about peace and love and rationality, just doesn't stand up to any factual analysis. You've got a whole lot of crazy on your side and it's not shy about showing itself, in both word and deed.
Google: Sarah Palin death threats
Also check over at insty -- he has a twitter display of things about Ms. Palin.
(Apparently at least one of the death tweeters wants his privacy back. Aaauugghhh. Don't tweet ugly stuff, dude.)
garage: That reminds when Napolitano and the DHS report came out warning of increases in anti-government plots from skinheads and neo-nazis - and [...] Malkin [...] howled with outrage.
ME: Link it.
...
...
...
...
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... uh-huh. Quelle shock.
I'm enjoying the cricket concert now, too, Kent. So far it hasn't been interrupted by AL supplying a shred of evidence of any Republican leaders, even once, let alone repeatedly, calling for beatings.
Chirp, chirp.
She (Palin) should be arrested for impersonating a Commander-in-chief.
Good idea, and while we're at it we might as well charge Obama with unlawful impersonation of a commander-in-chief as well.
Exactly how many friends did this paranoid schizophrenic have? It seems for a "creepy guy" an awfully lot are popping out of the woodwork.
I'm enjoying the cricket concert now, too, Kent. So far it hasn't been interrupted by AL supplying a shred of evidence of any Republican leaders, even once, let alone repeatedly, calling for beatings.
Aren't you glad your own sense of "manhood," or "self," or what-have-you isn't so gossamer fragile that it won't even allow you to mumble a quick, semi-sincere "okay, so maybe I was wrong, then" whenever righteously and demonstrably thumped on any public online fora?
I mean, can you even imagine trying to live like that, f'chrissakes...?
there is no democrat party.
"there is no democrat party."
Says HT, as he follows in Althouse's footsteps where she supposed "for the sake of discussion", that Laughner was not a psychotic.
And yet again, I'll bite.
So here we are...no psychotics, and no democrat party.
We OK so far?
I have to say that "Democrat Party" just sounds illiterate. Like calling the ADL "a Jew group" instead of "a Jewish group".
Revenant,
For years I've been trying to figure out exactly why "Democrat Party" rubbed me the wrong way.
You hit the nail right on the head.
there is no democrat party.
Sadder still, and more to the point: there is no Democratic Party. Not any longer, at any rate.
Just an increasingly frenzied, grasping, yowling gaggle of professional martyrs and grievance-mongers, is all.
Sad, that.
@Revenant:
I have to say that "Democrat Party" just sounds illiterate. Like calling the ADL "a Jew group" instead of "a Jewish group".
Good example, but I would counter with the WhigGISH Party, the FederalistIC Party--I think these get chosen more for euphony than for consistency. There are too many ugly words as it is.
Penny said...
"there is no democrat party."
Says HT, as he follows in Althouse's footsteps where she supposed "for the sake of discussion", that Laughner was not a psychotic.
And yet again, I'll bite.
So here we are...no psychotics, and no democrat party.
We OK so far?
1/13/11 1:10 AM
____
I don't believe I ever said Loughner was not a psychotic, or that there are no psychotics.
I said I did not necessarily believe that it was mental illness and not a tendency to violence that caused him to open fire. I said there's so much we do not know yet. I said it's very likely he had a psychotic break. I said I do not believe in the medical model of mental illness.
But by all means, because I said something that to you is ridiculous it makes perfect sense that the name of one of the political parties in the US is ripe for misnaming over and over.
We observed a couple actions Saturday. First, the murdering insanity of a deranged killer. Second, the Soros/Obama marxist/OSI media machine in action.
They thought they had an opportunity to kill the Tea Party and Palin and maybe marginalize FOX and Rush. White house mouthpiece Krugman, NYSlimes, soros Huffpro, DailyKOS, many others jumped into action. They were anchored by MS-LSD Olbermann rants and lesser idiots. Goofball Sheriff Dufus was a bonus.
This was the first full-on media attack since 2008. But it misfired.
America rejected taking the Soros paid Disney ride - Fkin Goofy. America said to tone it down and even got the Dear Leader to back them up last night, he must have seen the polls. He let a crisis go to waste, Rahm and Ayers must be pissed.
This will not be the last time we see this media machine in action, full-on. They misfired this time but will reload. Until the next tragedy they can go back to ruining tv shows and movies showing our military as dangerous, promoting the GLT agenda (I thought I liked watching women kiss but enough is enough) and screwing up great shows like Law and Order with their agenda, had to turn that off along with most others.
Will miss action shows from "Jason" Damon, Penn, Clooney and Buttflack but will totally boycott since they have gone over to the dark side with their ex-mentor and Anti-American Howard Zinn. things change.
Nov 2012 will be interesting. The Tea Party was wounded but what does not kill you makes you stronger. I would rather Palin stay in the media and get richer than Oprah anyway.
What if the government words had no meaning? Pardon me, but that's pretty juvenile.
Read the Constitution and tell me where the Federal Government is authorized to do twenty percent of what it does.
They make it up. It's like Santa Claus, Jared. You've been lied to all your life.
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