¶ Gaming out an eventual collapse of North Korea: American and South Korean officials have discussed the prospects for a unified Korea, should the North’s economic troubles and political transition lead the state to implode. The South Koreans even considered commercial inducements to China, according to the American ambassador to Seoul. She told Washington in February that South Korean officials believe that the right business deals would “help salve” China’s “concerns about living with a reunified Korea” that is in a “benign alliance” with the United States.Much more at the link.
¶ Bargaining to empty the Guantánamo Bay prison: When American diplomats pressed other countries to resettle detainees, they became reluctant players in a State Department version of “Let’s Make a Deal.” Slovenia was told to take a prisoner if it wanted to meet with President Obama, while the island nation of Kiribati was offered incentives worth millions of dollars to take in a group of detainees, cables from diplomats recounted. The Americans, meanwhile, suggested that accepting more prisoners would be “a low-cost way for Belgium to attain prominence in Europe.”
November 28, 2010
New Wikileakage — "a secret chronicle of the United States’ relations with the world in an age of war and terrorism."
The NYT passes along the "brutally candid views of foreign leaders and frank assessments of nuclear and terrorist threats."
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38 comments:
Re: the Gitmo detainees:
Wouldn't it be simpler just to shoot the SOBs?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I cannot imagine the rationale for spending more on those bastards than the cost of a bullet. How did we get so god damned soft that we're worried about the rights of people who want to commit mass murder on civilians? The whole idea of taking them out in back and putting a bullet in their heads is to send a message to their comrades that that's what they've got coming, too.
It's been done this way for thousands of years. Why are we too good for this?
Nothing is secret any more. That's probably mostly a good thing.
I think The Zero is going to need more than some stitches in the lip if he wants street cred with the cutthroats of the world. From the tone of the article, he sure ain't got it now.
shoutingthomas said...
Re: the Gitmo detainees:
Wouldn't it be simpler just to shoot the SOBs?
Too dignified - it makes them look almost like real soldiers.
See how it was done in the Sepoy Mutiny.
THAT's the way to handle these animals so they stay handled.
How did we get so god damned soft that we're worried about the rights of people who want to commit mass murder on civilians?
Thank the Democrat Party and it's concern over whether we pass "The Global Test", as Lurch liked to put it.
Slovenia was told to take a prisoner if it wanted to meet with President Obama
Ha ha ha.
From the man who, as a candidate, said it shouldn't be a prize to meet with the US President.
We really should abolish political campaigns. They are nothing but garbage.
A wise Chinese colleague once told me that his country yearns to have all its former territory back- to make the chicken whole again.
The PRC will never countenance an independent unified Korea in their craw.
Hmmm...you'd think the wise and enlightened nations of Europe would've been lining up for the chance to take in all those innocent goat-herders and rug salesmen who were kidnapped and tortured by the rogue Bush regime.
Chance to right a historical wrong, etc. Instead we need to bribe Bermuda and Kiribati.
Very puzzling.
World opinion is such a cesspool of valueless stench. As a group, our species has nothing worthy of respect. It does have heroic individuals of amazing character and one exceptional nation. What will we do when there are only the individuals left fighting the devils of world alone?
Julian Assange is probably doing more damage to our national security than any of the Taliban dorks that we've wasted with a Predator drone. Frankly, we'd have been better off using one of them on Assange.
And that Howdy Doody-looking Bradley Manning character? Get a rope...
The sheer volume and steady flow of the disclosures on Wikileaks is clear evidence that this Administration wants this stuff exposed, despite its public protestations. And in addition, it very likely is complicit and proactive in feeding this information to Wikileaks. We should soon see what the real motivation is for doing this.
We should make it a top priority to identify and execute everyone who was involved in leaking these classified documents. To the extent that these documents were the result of hacks instead of leaks, we should either co-opt the hackers or ensure through other means that they are never again in a position to threaten our national security.
Looking in back in 20 years, we may well identify the Wikileaks releases as the single biggest failure of the Obama administration.
And the only explanation I can come up with for the NYT's involvement is that they hate America and want us to fail - can anyone else present a plausible alternative motive for them to cooperate with Wikileaks?
The sheer volume and steady flow of the disclosures on Wikileaks is clear evidence that this Administration wants this stuff exposed, despite its public protestations. And in addition, it very likely is complicit and proactive in feeding this information to Wikileaks. We should soon see what the real motivation is for doing this.
If that's the case, huge props to the administration for being sneaky. But for now I'm skeptical. I guess we'll find out over the next few days just how catastrophic these leaks are.
If Wikileaks was exposing just Russian, Chinese or North Korean secrets, they would have been shut down by assassins already. I'm sure they are well aware of this. Exposing the U.S. secrets is their inoculation...so far.
Pfc. Bradley Manning is accused of leaking diplomatic cables and other classified documents to WikiLeaks.
That's just a crock. When on active duty I was (for a time in Army signals intel) and now as a civilian hold an IC badge.
PFC's don't have access to State Dept cables to Ambassadors, ever! Not unless they are part of a specific Embassy Com Section, and then only to calbles from that Embassy. Nobody except Main State has the database of cables to multiple Embassies. This is either a huge problem at State HQ or a designed Leak by somebody toward some end.
Repeating myself, regardless of what you hear about intel sharing, agencies and services compartmentalize for this exact resaon. some PFC in the sand box might (might!) have access to a wide range of in-theater military intel reports. He would not have access to stuff upstream of him, e.g. higher HQ msg traffic, nor stuff at other DoD locations, much less CIA, or DOS stuff. NO WAY NEVER
This leak was a Foggy bottom, period. (or the WH)
bagoh20 said...
If Wikileaks was exposing just Russian, Chinese or North Korean secrets, they would have been shut down by assassins already. I'm sure they are well aware of this. Exposing the U.S. secrets is their inoculation...so far.
So if Obama uses drone to attack AQ in safe haven's, I wonder what the Swedes would say if we start sending Predator-B's over Stockholm
"How did we get so god damned soft that we're worried about the rights of people who want to commit mass murder on civilians?"
How do you know which of them--if any--want to commit mass murder on civilians? And why should we be any softer on American who have committed mass murder on Iraqi and Afghani citizens?
"It's been done this way for thousands of years. Why are we too good for this?"
Isn't this why we're supposedly better than any other country, or at least tell ourselves we are? Because we don't do this? Because we are too good for this?
Kookie,
You are so dull, so sanctimonious, so hideous...
How in the hell did you become so dismal and perverted?
You are completely, stinking mad. Are you aware of that?
"And the only explanation I can come up with for the NYT's involvement is that they hate America and want us to fail -"
Want us to fail at what? At "winning" (sic) our terror war? There's no victory to be had, no goal we can claim to say "we won." We're just involved in a pointless slog of killing and destruction, for no purpose.
Want us to fail at what? At "winning" (sic) our terror war? There's no victory to be had, no goal we can claim to say "we won." We're just involved in a pointless slog of killing and destruction, for no purpose.
I don't know why I even bother reading your comments, Kookie.
Woodstock is full of perverted assholes like you. So's the Lower East Side.
I'm not even interested in how somebody becomes as thorough as asshole as you.
It's disgusting, but not very interesting.
Where'd you buy your halo? I hope you polish is every day.
The Drill SGT said...
This leak was a Foggy bottom, period. (or the WH)
In other words, sabotage by the Hildabeast?
Robert Cook said...
"And the only explanation I can come up with for the NYT's involvement is that they hate America and want us to fail -"
Want us to fail at what? At "winning" (sic) our terror war? There's no victory to be had, no goal we can claim to say "we won." We're just involved in a pointless slog of killing and destruction, for no purpose.
Of course there is. It rids the world of a great many undesirables. Didn't your pal Vlad make his rep killing Chechen terrorists?
You don't want him to have all the glory, do you?
Has Time's Man of the Year 2010 been chosen yet? If not, I think this secures the title for Julian.
Those who want the people at Wikileaks tried or assassinated are the worst bunch of moral-less, valueless assholes in the world. Why do they hate the idea of a government being accountable and having to admit the truth? Probably because they themselves support an America that drifts more and more toward a totalitarian anti-freedom state, like the way China is now.
The Founding Fathers stuck it to the Establishment and now we admire them for doing so. History will admire Wikileaks and its children in the same way.
Those who attack Wikileaks also attack free speech and a free press, as well as the ideal of truth in government. Those people should be stripped of their citizenship and thrown out of the country...
Jeez - the average person hardly ever loses their passwords etc but the guvmint's soooooooooopperr geeeeeeennnnyyyyooouses can't keep anything under wraps.
Drill,
I was under the impression that the PFC hacked his way into the computers.
Was Obama's birth certificate and passport information part of this leak?
Drill SGT says: PFC's don't have access to State Dept cables to Ambassadors, ever! Not unless they are part of a specific Embassy Com Section, and then only to calbles from that Embassy. Nobody except Main State has the database of cables to multiple Embassies. This is either a huge problem at State HQ or a designed Leak by somebody toward some end.
I've been wondering why or how some low-level private would have access to these sorts of communications. Reading your comment makes me more suspicious about what the backstory is here.
I am an American in Europe and my feeling reading these things are two fold.
First -- yea so? Everything I have seen in any of these cables seems to have already been in the press. It simply confirms a lot we already know -- mainly that politicans say one thing in public about the US but then something else in private.
Second -- can't anyone here play this game? It is more an embarrassment for the US NOT what is in the cables but rather the fact that they have been released. Foreign politicians will wonder if the US can keep a secret. I mean, didn't ANYONE notice this guuy downloading lots of stuff?
The thing about the Gitmo detainees simply confirms what I have always thought -- everyone wants to score cheap political points but no one actually wants these clowns on their soil.
I continue to be underwhelmed by these leaks. They don't seem very spectacular.
Shoutingthomas-
We do shoot people rather than capture them. What do you think all the drone strikes in Pakistan are about?
It's less trouble than capturing them.
@Robert Cook:
When the next one happens, the problem won't be figuring out which ones want to commit mass murder of Americans, but which ones we'll allow to live.
At some point, the line will be crossed, and that sleeping giant will be awakened again. Americans are getting real tired of this whole "understanding and sensitivity" crap for the "other." All it's going to to take is a Beslan episode here, or something like it.
When that happens, Americans are going to go crazy with rage, and there won't be anything the elites can do about it. Mosques will burn and Muslims will be killed and this country will enter a state of total war with Muslims overseas. The consequences of not doing so will be civil war here.
@ John Lynch
The issue is not really the statements, which in teh end mostly fall under "Thank You Capitan Obvious". What the real issue is whether the US can keep a secret. The answer seems to be no.
If Wikileaks was exposing just Russian, Chinese or North Korean secrets,
Right, and I guess the US has to worry about their feelings when we hold ourselves to the John Kerry global test?
We're just involved in a pointless slog of killing and destruction, for no purpose.
No Kookie, you didn't get the memo?
We're doing it to enrich companies like Halliburton.
Duh!
"Repeating myself, regardless of what you hear about intel sharing, agencies and services compartmentalize for this exact resaon. some PFC in the sand box might (might!) have access to a wide range of in-theater military intel reports. He would not have access to stuff upstream of him, e.g. higher HQ msg traffic, nor stuff at other DoD locations, much less CIA, or DOS stuff. NO WAY NEVER
This leak was a Foggy bottom, period. (or the WH)"
Damn right, and I'm amazed at anyone buying otherwise.
smart diplomacy in action:
When American diplomats pressed other countries to resettle detainees, they became reluctant players in a State Department version of “Let’s Make a Deal.” Slovenia was told to take a prisoner if it wanted to meet with President Obama, while the island nation of Kiribati was offered incentives worth millions of dollars to take in a group of detainees, cables from diplomats recounted. The Americans, meanwhile, suggested that accepting more prisoners would be “a low-cost way for Belgium to attain prominence in Europe.”
What a bunch of clowns.
Those who want the people at Wikileaks tried or assassinated are the worst bunch of moral-less, valueless assholes in the world. Why do they hate the idea of a government being accountable and having to admit the truth? Probably because they themselves support an America that drifts more and more toward a totalitarian anti-freedom state, like the way China is now.
There's a massive gulf between accountability and a complete lack of confidentiality. Honest reporting from an embassy might include such tidbits as "wow, the prime minister is an asshole." Is it non-accountable to keep that confidential when revealing this opinion of our guy in the field could prove detrimental to our diplomatic efforts?
People casting this as some big First Amendment deal fail to appreciate that there are a lot of reasons to keep particular pieces of information secret. The mass nature of this dump shows that there is no particular agenda to hold the government accountable for any particular policies - it's just a big fuck you to America, a "nyah nyah, we know your secrets" bit of juvenilia that comes with terrible consequences for countless individuals, such as any dissidents in oppressive regimes who may be unmasked by Assange's egomaniacal bullshit.
The Founding Fathers knew the value of confidential communications for diplomatic and national security purposes. That sort of confidence is an important part of any serious nation's executive activities. The fact that none of the wikileaks staff or their enablers appreciates this reveals them all as either vapid anti-establishment sloganeers or malicious anti-American propagandists.
Drill Sgt,
Unless the skill level of the top people in the Pentagon has changed from the JFK era, you are not correct. I had the clearance to access those emails and other high level intel when I was in the service. I was the one who typed up the hard copy of the eyes only messages for the JCS staff as an enlisted man. I also had access to all the intel that was used to prepare Orders of Battle. There was one enlisted man on each shift who had that clearance and I was the one for the day shift. I was also involved in preparing the briefing books that were passed out as well. We got the intel from CIA, NSA, DIA, State, etc and my officer and I put the books together that were sent to Congress, the WH, state, and the other agencies. If I had been stationed anywhere other than the Pentagon, then you would be correct. Since I was at the Pentagon, I did in fact have just about the same clearances as the top officers and only to prepare the documents for them and to prepare the responses that were transmitted back.
With the computers today that may no longer be true but in the days of JFK and LBJ it was.
"If Wikileaks was exposing just Russian, Chinese or North Korean secrets, they would have been shut down by assassins already."
I said the exact same thing to my wife when we heard about these latest leaks.
Where's all that global admiration and cooperation Obama and his lefties promised us if we just kicked the Bushies out on their collective butts, BTW? We can't even get other countries to take a single one of the Gitmo terrorists without other inducements?
Yeah....go ahead and repeal DADT
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/7918632/Bradley-Manning-suspected-source-of-Wikileaks-documents-raged-on-his-Facebook-page.html
"The Pentagon, which is investigating the source of the leak, is expected to study Mr Manning’s background to ascertain if they missed any warnings when he applied to join the US Army. The postings on his Facebook page are also likely to form part of the inquiry.
Mr Manning, who is openly homosexual, began his gloomy postings on January 12, saying: "Bradley Manning didn't want this fight. Too much to lose, too fast."
At the beginning of May, when he was serving at a US military base near Baghdad, he changed his status to: "Bradley Manning is now left with the sinking feeling that he doesn't have anything left."
Five days later he said he was "livid" after being "lectured by ex-boyfriend", then later the same day said he was "not a piece of equipment" and was "beyond frustrated with people and society at large".
His tagline on his personal page reads: "Take me for who I am, or face the consequences!"
Mr Manning was arrested at the end of May on suspicion of leaking a video of a US helicopter attack, and quickly became the main suspect when the Afghan war documents were leaked earlier this week.
His uncle, Kevin Fox, said the soldier’s arrest and imprisonment in a military jail had taken its toll on his mother Susan, who lives in Haverfordwest.
“She hasn’t been well,” he said, adding that if Mr Manning had leaked the documents: “I think the boy did the right thing.”
Another close relative, who asked not to be named, said: “His mum didn't know anything about what he was doing and it's come as a big shock. She's very upset.” "
Here's how the PFC got the information. These are his words, and he says that it was very easy. Let's also remember this PFC was an open homosexual who was distraught after he broke up with his boyfriend.
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