... I don’t expect Juan Williams to support me (he’s said some tough things about me in the past) – but I will always support his right and the right of all Americans to speak honestly about the threats this country faces. And for Juan, speaking honestly about these issues isn’t just his right, it’s his job. Up until yesterday, he was doing that job at NPR. Firing him is their loss.
If NPR is unable to tolerate an honest debate about an issue as important as Islamic terrorism, then it’s time for “National Public Radio” to become “National Private Radio.” It’s time for Congress to defund this organization.
October 21, 2010
Sarah Palin: "Juan Williams: Going Rogue."
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Bull. Idiocy.
Freedom of speech is not at issue. He is free to go on Fox and continue to spread prejudice against Muslims.
NPR, however, has no obligation to keep him on the payroll when he very clearly flouts their published ethical standards:
9. NPR journalists must get permission from the Vice President for their Division or their designee to appear on TV or other media. It is not necessary to get permission in each instance when the employee is a regular participant on an approved show. Permission for such appearances may be revoked if NPR determines such appearances are harmful to the reputation of NPR or the NPR participant.
10. In appearing on TV or other media including electronic Web-based forums, NPR journalists should not express views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist. They should not participate in shows electronic forums, or blogs that encourage punditry and speculation rather than rather than fact-based analysis.
http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/ethics/ethics_code.html
This has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Neither does criticism of speech.
What a bunch of Willy Whiners.
Rock the boat,
Don't rock the boat, Juan-y.
Rock the boat,
Don't tip the boat over.
NPR is a serene little cocoon for its predominantly left-of-center audience. A vast landscape of flat intonation and synchronous opinion speckled with catchy esoteric music. Juan's statement came dangerously close to raising the audience's pulse above 35 bpm, which is prohibited by NPR's editorial policy. Then again, who listening to NPR would have also heard him on Fox News?
Libtard: In appearing on TV or other media including electronic Web-based forums, NPR journalists should not express views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist.
So when an NPR exec says "thats between Juan and his psychiatrist" at a news conference, thats a vioaltion of their "ethics" code and she should be fired, right?
Alpha's contention that this is not a freedom of speech issue makes me curious (one I agree with, although their firing Williams is just another example of the left's intolerance). Since NPR is funded by government bucks couldn't this be interpreted as a government restriction on free speech?
Alpha: Splendid cutting and pasting!! So, to be sure I understand, NPR was unaware of Williams' presence on Fox until, like, last night? And then they caught and fired him? You are the best, the absolute best, at getting me to laugh.
thanks
I don't know AL. Seems like that federal money becomes relavant. I can just see you crying government censorship if the shoe were on the other foot.
May God bless Sarah Palin.
NPR is an anachronism and should be chloroformed.
NPR claims that the federal government does not fund them. It says so on their web site.
This is true, in the narrow sense that federal funds do not go directly to NPR. But government funds do go in large amounts to foundations that fund NPR, and to local public radio stations, which in turn pay large fees to NPR for programming.
NPR's CEO said today that Williams' statement should have been between him "and his psychiatrist." Having done the damage to Williams and to her organization, she apologized for the statement.
Nice lady. Must have been fun to work for her.
Or, when Nina Totenberg wishes AIDS on Jesse Helms.
Note her laugh as she fantasizes about Helms' grand-kids getting AIDs.
Right after we defund Alaska, a state completely dependent on pork, federal handouts, and oil profits, which costs us $2 for every $1 we send. Return those oil welfare checks your receive from the government for your litter of little grizzlies. Set an example for us.
Oh never mind.
Permission for such appearances may be revoked if NPR determines such appearances are harmful to the reputation of NPR or the NPR participant.
Question for you Alpha: In the last 48 hours, whose action or reaction has done more to damage NPR's reputation?
Since NPR is funded by government bucks couldn't this be interpreted as a government restriction on free speech?
If NPR was promoting Religion....
"This is true, in the narrow sense that federal funds do not go directly to NPR. But government funds do go in large amounts to foundations that fund NPR, and to local public radio stations, which in turn pay large fees to NPR for programming."
If there were no federal funding for NPR - however it gets there - there would be no NPR. Air America proved that.
Return those oil welfare checks your receive from the government for your litter of little grizzlies.
Wow Garage. Statements like that make me feel OK to oppose that HCR that helps your little brood.
NPR journalists should not express views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist.
Is there a reason why NPR would not tolerate Williams airing precisely the same view in his role as an NPR journalist?
Alpha is correct that this is not a freedom of speech issue.
It's merely one of ethics, judgment, honesty, power, political correctness and race.
NPR is a private organization and even though it exists because of federal money, it can legally restrict free and open discussion.
What they did was legal.
Reprehensible and disgusting, but legal.
2% of NPR's budget is from the government. Defund it if it will make the cretins happy. They have so little to live for.
What they did was legal.
We'll see.
Lefties are always demanding where we can cut spending. This is a good start. There is no reason for the federal government to be in the business of subsidising liberal propaganda.
Several people have already debunked that 2% figure, Monty.
It would be handy if NPR and the public university system handed out laminated cards with the list of Things That Must Not be Spoken on them for reference.
Since the Inappropriate Subjects can change quickly, it might be simpler just to make everyone wear one of the plastic 'Livestrong'-type bracelets that had "WWMB?" printed on it.
("Who Would Moby Blame?")
"2% of NPR's budget is from the government. Defund it if it will make the cretins happy. They have so little to live for."
Not true. The public funding of NPR is much more convoluted than that and that two percent is just a small portion of federal funding.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Public_Radio
Montagne Montaigne: Defund it if it will make the cretins happy
Ah yes, thanks for the reminder - you should be the last to call anyone a cretin:
Montagne Montaigne said...
we should make all blacks go through special screening anyway. ...anyone sort of brown should be submitted for additional screening. There should be a whites-only line - @ 10:41AM, 10-21-10
/hat tip to Maureen Dowd
If there were no federal funding for NPR - however it gets there - there would be no NPR. Air America proved that.
I think that's a chicken/egg thing. Air America failed in part because NPR had that base covered. W/O NPR and Air America, a commercial market might arise for what they sell. And that's OK right?
This again shows Palin (or is it Katie Couric ghost writing for her) has hit the issue of the day head on and with just the right tone. Maybe, like C-4 claimsedaftn, she really is a goddess. Her level of political skills are unseen since Dick Nixon, and she is much better looking.
AL said:
Freedom of speech is not at issue.
yet when conservatives criticized The Dixie Chicks for their anti-Bush rhetoric the left made it into a 1st amendment issue. Hypocrisy, thy name is LIEBERAL!!!!!
That was Claims, not claimsedaftn. The WV snuck in.
To be more precise, Air America failed because NPR, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, NYTs, WaPo, LA Times, etc had that base covered.
The only reason conservative AM radio existed in the first place is because they were pushed out of the market by people like those that run NPR.
Defund it if it will make the cretins happy. They have so little to live for.
Yes please defund it. I also live for the day when Democrats become the permanent minority. that is something worth living for!
"I think that's a chicken/egg thing. Air America failed in part because NPR had that base covered. W/O NPR and Air America, a commercial market might arise for what they sell. And that's OK right?"
Sure it's okay. Private enterprise all the way, baby.
That said, I don't believe it would succeed, but hey I say give it a shot by defunding it.
"Several people have already debunked that 2% figure, Monty."
Monty operates on the well-used Alinsky principle that a lie that favors the left must be repeated ad nauseum.
As Juan Williams has discovered, when mendacity is the dictum, speaking the truth is mutiny.
Monty operates on the well-used Alinsky principle that a lie that favors the left must be repeated ad nauseum.
The reason why this works is because the left has captured the hearts & minds of the youth.
Really, it's the fact that it's National Public Radio that's generating so much heat, I think. If Williams had worked for CBS Radio and got fired for what he said on O'Reilly, I'd think it was stupid of CBS, but I wouldn't get really heated about it. The hypocrisy and cowardly charges would still apply, but I wouldn't have any skin in the game.
But this looks like ideological enforcement from something that bills itself as the public voice (it's in their name) and takes a good bit of taxpayer money (however it's delivered--straight up or through the intermediaries.) It's that extra untimely twist that's ticking me off.
So defund it. Remove public money. If, as some here contend, the public money is negligible, then this should be a slam dunk on all sides. The left can be happy that their niche is filled by an entity that the right can't gripe about, and the right is happy their money doesn't fund opposing ideological conformity.
Final note: Big Mike is right. Citing the ethical guidelines isn't sufficient to fire Williams. The guidelines are, "if you wouldn't say it here, don't say it there." But the cited guidelines don't specify what or why certain things can be said on NPR. Process guidelines aren't useful in evaluating a content violation. There's got to be something else for reference.
"If NPR was promoting Religion...."
But modern liberalism IS a religion. Well, really a cult, but you get the idea.
I always liked Williams. He's not my political flavor, but he makes the liberal argument calmly and clearly. I enjoy understanding what people on the other side think, what makes them tick. Williams can make his points in a reasonable way that makes you think.
I've read enough about this pitiful incident today to decide NPR was just looking for an excuse to fire him. If you read the entire exchange it's clear he's arguing that having those feelings towards Muslims is bad and we don't want to be that country.
There's just nothing there that's offensive.
I don't listen to NPR and I don't watch much TV anymore, and NPR certainly has the right to hire and fire as they wish, but they botched this and made fools of themselves.
Oh. The last time I found myself listening to NPR was after the wife had used my car and switched the radio. I was making a short trip to the grocer, and during the few minutes I listened the guys they had reporting were describing how difficult it was for Obama to get his health care bill through "the republican congress". I actually laughed out loud.
Modern liberalism is not a religion. It's based on sound, scientific facts. Ummm, let me see if I can find any!
"NPR, however, has no obligation to keep him on the payroll when he very clearly flouts their published ethical standards"
Likewise, the taxpayers of the United States have no obligation to keep NPR on the payroll when they flout our published free speech standards.
Given the comments this dust-up has caused, I wonder:
Is it possible that NPR did precisely the wrong thing at the worst possible moment?
Or has the revolutionary dynamic reached the point that even the smallest spark will catch fire?
Alex is on the right today! Well, at least this thread.
I've heard you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing.
"NPR, however, has no obligation to keep him on the payroll when he very clearly flouts their published ethical standards:"
And we have no obligation to continue funding NPR.
So, to be sure I understand, NPR was unaware of Williams' presence on Fox until, like, last night?
No, his work, and Mara Liasson's, on Fox News has given them trouble for years. They requested of JW that he no longer use his NPR affiliation on Fox.
And, to others, government money has nothing to do with this. Again, Juan is in violation of their published ethics standards. He is not being muzzled, he is just not being paid as a representative of NPR.
Unlike nearly every possible Republican nominee for President being on Rupert Murdoch's payroll. So, the likelihood of one of Murdoch's employees being the Republican nominee is pretty high.
Citizen Kane never had it so good.
Strange days that I've been living in....
They requested of JW that he no longer use his NPR affiliation on Fox.
I not sure that he does anymore.
"Modern liberalism is not a religion. It's based on sound, scientific facts. Ummm, let me see if I can find any!"
Here's one: you feel attracted towards people of your same gender. It is therefore a scientific fact that you should give in to that attraction and have sex.
Here's another one: Darwin's theory is correct that species must adapt or face extinction, and that the weakened of the herd die, but that only genetically strengthens the herd.
It is therefore a scientific fact that if you as a country were a colonist or capitalist imperialist you were wrong for what you did and must stop doing it so the unadapted and weak can survive.
How'm I doing so far?
Sofa: Likewise, the taxpayers of the United States have no obligation to keep NPR on the payroll when they flout our published free speech standards.
*THWACK!*
"Going, going, gone! He knocked it out of the park!"
Is there a reason why NPR would not tolerate Williams airing precisely the same view in his role as an NPR journalist?
It gets to other comments. Juan was talking about his inner and personal fears about being around Muslims. That topic is really about his personal emotions and anxieties and not in the slightest a news item. And I think that's where the psychiatrist crack comes in.
Adding, funny how all of a sudden conservatives give a tinker's dam about "tolerance." I thought you guys scoffed at tolerance.
"it’s time for “National Public Radio” to become “National Private Radio.”"
Palin's damn good, ain't she though?
So, sofa, you claim there is some free speech requirement in the USA an organization must pay people to be broadcast on their network?
Well, do they pay you? Aren't you being oppressed, as well?
Yeah, whatever. This is the crew who thinks Fox News is fair and balanced and nonpartisan.
Sarah Palin likes to cry "free speech" whenever she or someone gets criticized. She's a ditz.
No AL, we scoff at you guy's claim that you are the tolerant ones.
Crazy mixed up world...
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-juan-williams-20101022,0,4294425.story
In wake of NPR controversy, Fox News gives Juan Williams an expanded role
A cool $2 million payoff for embracing Islamophobia.
Juan Williams is a liberal. The problem is that he is an honest liberal. That has no place in politics today.
Trey
AlphaLibtard: Juan was talking about his inner and personal fears about being around Muslims. That topic is really about his personal emotions and anxieties and not in the slightest a news item.
Wrong. He was saying that despite his personal emotions, its wrong to lump all muslims in with extremists. Thats whats so pathetic - he was making your point.
And I think that's where the psychiatrist crack comes in.
Dodge. The question was if that snarky remark at a news conference violated NPR's own code of ethics.
The fact that she and Nina still have jobs proves that the "ethics" charge is bogus.
@Alpha: admit that your party's stock is in free fall before an election. Give us a credible dead cat bounce other that America's Politico.
A cool $2 million payoff for embracing Islamophobia.
No, a Blue Curtain is decending across America.
No AL, we scoff at you guy's claim that you are the tolerant ones.
No, you really do scoff at tolerance.
In this case, you say it ois not tolerant if his employer did not treat as news reporting a guy talking about people from one religion make him feel uncomfortable.
How about if he said "those Orthodox Jews in New York City make me feel very uncomfortable."
You would find no fault in that and consider that hard-hitting reporting?
Really, this is ridiculous. Talking about how much you don't like a religious group and promoting that whole conversation is reprehensible. It's not the sort of thing to be tolerated.
But then, conservatives also want us to tolerate school yard bullies who threaten, harass and intimidate other children.
Ugh
Conservative = Immoral
"A cool $2 million payoff for embracing Islamophobia."
Did you even watch the whole of what he said? Because if you did you would know just how absolutely full of bullshit you are.
Miss Sarah is on a roll. It seems like everybody not an Obamatron is behind this one.
AlphaLiberal said...
Bull. Idiocy.
Thus spake the expert.
Freedom of speech is not at issue. He is free to go on Fox and continue to spread prejudice against Muslims.
If you get fired for speaking your mind, how is that not a freedom of speech issue?
Well, he isn't protesting government policy, true enough, but, then, Corporation for Public Broadcasting (the parent org) is a Congressional creation and gets government money.
Of course, CPB is stridently left-wing. Since it doesn't reflect the broad spectrum of political opinion, one presumes it shouldn't get federal funding.
AlphaLibtard: So, sofa, you claim there is some free speech requirement in the USA an organization must pay people to be broadcast on their network?
You don't tolerate any entity promoting religion if they are recieving federal funding. It violates your "separation of church and state" fanatasy.
How is this different? By *your* standards, NPR should either rehire Juan or forfeit federal aid.
Or is this just another case of The Left not really believing in the things they lecture the rest of us about?
Did he speak truth to power? How dare he?
AlphaLibtard: Conservative = Immoral
Wow. Now you're just flailing wildly about.
Another Alpha Meltdown in 3.. 2.. 1..
We don't scoff at tolerance. We scoff at "tolerance" when it's used to mask a demand for acceptance and surrender.
We can handle "live and let live"; it's "'shut up', he explained" that gets our goat.
AL says in part "I thought you guys scoffed at tolerance."
We scoff at your ideas of tolerance. Primarily how you narrowly define tolerance to exclude anyone who doesn't share your political opinions. This of course shows you have no tolerance.
So your constant self-congratulations on the matter are quite amusing. We're scoffing at you, not tolerance.
NPR is government sponsored political speech. It is antithetical to the obvious intent of the First Amendment in that it is an encroachment by the power of the government on the free marketplace of ideas. It is government propaganda that supports the economic interests of those in power.
NPR should certainly be defunded. Not made more balanced or neutral, but completely defunded.
AlphaLiberal said...
"That topic is really about his personal emotions and anxieties and not in the slightest a news item."
NPR would consider it newsworthy to interview black people talking about their personal fears of being around whites, or gays talking about their fears of being around skinheads. These used to be predictable topics on Morning Edition or All Things Considered. Williams' only offense was failing to issue the ritual commendation of Islam and Moslems required to stay in the Left's good stead.
I just understood Palin's use of the phrase "Going Rogue". It is more than speaking up when McCain campaign handlers told her to shut up. It means the boldness to speak up for common sense truths against the Party Line which is usually lying through its teeth and no one else dares to oppose the All Powerful Machine. That is the courage that started the Tea Party. That is the courage that got Juan Williams fired. That is the courage that got real scientists threats of professional death and actual imprisonment from the Global Warmist Machine. IT IS ALWAYS A FREE SPEECH ISSUE in the modern information control age.
If you get fired for speaking your mind, how is that not a freedom of speech issue?
Well, he isn't protesting government policy, true enough, but, then, Corporation for Public Broadcasting (the parent org) is a Congressional creation and gets government money.
Of course, CPB is stridently left-wing. Since it doesn't reflect the broad spectrum of political opinion, one presumes it shouldn't get federal funding.
I think that we have a couple of issues here. First, Freedom of Speech only applies to government restrictions on speech. Not private, and NPR/CPB are private enough that they are unlikely to be bound by the 1st Amdt.
But, then, why is any public money, directly or indirectly, going to espousing views that are far from neutral? NPR has been rabidly left wing for decades now (though it does seem to be jettisoning its more mature staff, despite their being reliably liberal). The question is, why is one federal dollar going directly, or indirectly (such as through the local affiliates) to an organization that is so far from being viewpoint neutral.
So, again, Sarah Palin hits it on the head.
"Right after we defund Alaska, a state completely dependent on pork, federal handouts, and oil profits, which costs us $2 for every $1 we send. Return those oil welfare checks your receive from the government for your litter of little grizzlies. Set an example for us.
Oh never mind."
Quite right, "Oh, never mind", because the rest of that suggestion is... Just say the word, but the Feds also have to give back all the real estate they control to the State of Alaska and along with it the authority to limit economic development by fiat in that state.
Until then, keep the checks coming.
"[Dana Davis Rehm, NPR’s senior vice president for communications] said it was inappropriate for politicians to interject the issue of federal funding into an editorial decision, adding that she hoped the controversy would not affect financial support for public radio. “Stations are in fund-raising season, so it is unfortunate that this occurred at this time,” she said."
Yeah; I'll bet.
Heh.
Well, I for one will make the same pledge I did last year. I spent the $60 and joined the local gun range.
Excellent:
I'm scared of coloreds
Juan, I hope you'll forgive me. You know I'm not a bigot. You know that right?
It's just that when I'm walking down the street, I got to tell you, if I see people who are black with their baseball caps turned sideways or backwards and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as gangbangers, I get worried. I get nervous.
Because, truthfully, you just never know what those coloreds are up to. Though most of them are good dancers.
More at the link...
CPB gets over $400,000,000 from the taxpayers. Tons of that winds up at NPR in basically two distinct paths.
This arrangement was meant to work around the people's will to defund this organization years ago. CPB will continue to work around the will of the people.
Cutting CPB entirely saves several billion over a decade. We must do it. It's 2010 and NPR and public TV can use podcasts, youtube, get syndication, etc.
They are intolerant blowhards and we don't need to pay for it.
I like a lot of PBS programming. I'd watch it online or on a real network.
You guys don't understand how goverment funding works. Taking federal money away from NPR will hurt Science Friday (National Science Foundation) more than anything else.
Until then, keep the checks coming.
yum yum yum yum
"Taking federal money away from NPR will hurt Science Friday (National Science Foundation) more than anything else."
Screw Science Friday.
the Feds also have to give back all the real estate they control to the State of Alaska
Wait a minute. The Federal government paid for all that land, back in 186whatever. I don't want another big government giveaway.
Hammer, meet nail.
BTW, public funding or not, this is wrong.
Journalists should be able to convey ideas freely. There's a line you shouldn't cross, but Juan wasn't even near it by being frank. He was actually towing the PC line, if you don't cut his comment out of context. But that's besides the point.
He was being frank about an interesting topic. It's odious we're funding those who fired him, but they were wrong even if they were MSNBC or NYT.
NPR did this for money, this being a publicity maker among the left on funding week. but long term, they will wish they had been reasonable.
Liberals who balk at defunding NPR: how do you feel about $400,000,000 per year funding Fox News?
It's unclear to me which is more partisan. Probably NPR.
Can anyone here estimate how many hours of programming we get for that $400 Million? It seems to me there are about 15-20 public TV shows and my local station runs re-reuns after re-run. If there are 25 public TV shows, that means we get what one show for $16 Million [$400 Million / 25 shows]? Is that a good deal? or just another govt waste?
He was saying that despite his personal emotions, its wrong to lump all muslims in with extremists.
Yup. He Sherrodized himself.
The fact that she and Nina still have jobs proves that the "ethics" charge is bogus.
Nina should say, "Maybe if Juan's son or daughter marries a Muslim he wouldn't feel so anxious when he sees one on a plane.
"Right after we defund Alaska, a state completely dependent on pork, federal handouts, and oil profits, "
That's not a bad idea.
Joe Miller for US Senate!
I think the lesson in this is that when Masa say "don't do that," Mr. Williams needs to learn to obey.
Now, Juan, go hug that tree until Masa is done with you. And he don't want to hear no weeping either. This is all legal-like.
I thought only white people could be bigots. I know we've been told that.
It's unclear to me which is more partisan. Probably NPR.
This from wiki:
A December 2005 column run by NPR ombudsman and former Vice President Jeffrey Dvorkin denied allegations by some listeners that NPR relies heavily on conservative think-tanks[30]. In his column, Dvorkin listed the number of times NPR had cited experts from conservative and liberal think tanks in the previous year as evidence. The totals were 239 for conservative think tanks, and 141 for liberal ones. He noted that while the number of times liberal think tanks were cited was less, in addition to think tanks the liberal point of view is commonly provided by academics.
I like Sarah Palin more every day.
I think she is too stained by the attacks on her to run for president, but she's doing a great job of leading the opposition to the current administration and congress. I don't give a hoot about what people think about her, and their, frankly, insane accusations. I only care that she is the only person leading right now and that makes her a king maker. Whoever she supports will get the republican nomination.
Then again, after seeing another attack on O'Donnell, I'm thinking we should elect her just to stamp out such vicious attacks.
With that, this graph makes even more sense.
In his column, Dvorkin listed the number of times NPR had disparaged experts from conservative think tanks.
Fixed your post.
Gosh, garage, who can argue with those facts!!
Clearly NPR is not ultra-left like everyone thinks when they listen to it, NPR is actually leaning right!
I am so ashamed of my rush to judgment.
Wasnt it Jesse Jackson said said something to the effect that when he is out in the street at nite and hears footsteps behind him--and he turn around and they are white folks, he feels safer?
I am quite possibly wrong on that--but I can say with certainty that Alpha Liberal is about the dumbest MoFo I have ever encountered. He even gives libralism a bad name.
This from wiki:
Ha! Right, wiki. Where the slightest edit is jumped on by 6 libtards living in their mother's basement, doing the "Winston" 24/7.
garage -
Right after we defund Alaska, a state completely dependent on pork, federal handouts, and oil profits, which costs us $2 for every $1 we send. Return those oil welfare checks your receive from the government for your litter of little grizzlies. Set an example for us.
Since your plan is to defund Alaska, then you fully support the desire of state residents to fully develop all their natural resources.
Especially ANWR.
You know, since the federal government can't keep its nose out of Alaska's business, if we "defund" it then the federal government has to remove its restrictions on them.
Still willing to make that trade or do you think you should rethink your stupid comment instead?
Can anyone here estimate how many hours of programming we get for that $400 Million?
let me introduce you to google.com
http://www.cpb.org/aboutcpb/financials/appropriation/justification_11-13.pdf
Super Why!, Martha Speaks and The Electric Company, Between the Lions and Sesame Street.
American Experience, American Masters, PBS NewsHour, Nova and
Masterpiece Theater.
Independent Television Service (ITVS) Programming:
Minority Consortia Programming
Ken Burns
The average public radio station gets 10% of its revenue from the CPB:
Four years out, the CPB has asked for $95 million for all the public radio stations' operating costs:
(Local)Programming and Production 41.88%
Management and General 17.78%
Broadcasting and Engineering 14.99%
Fund Raising and Membership Development 13.99%
Underwriting and Grant Solicitation 5.26%
Program Information and Promotion 4.87%
Other Activities & Services 1.23%
$31 million for them to buy programs with, from PRI and APM, etc., as well as from NPR.
$9.5 million goes to produce national radio programs.
It's a good thing Obama's grandma did not work for NPR.
Dvorkin listed the number of times NPR had cited experts from -
Wake me when Dvorkin lists the number of stories it sent down the memory hole because it didn't fit the narrative.
BTW, has NPR told the full story yet? Or do we have to rely on FOX News to get both sides?
So, sofa, you claim there is some free speech requirement in the USA an organization must pay people to be broadcast on their network?
Of course not. I have no idea how you could discern that meaning from my words.
What I claim is that there is no free speech requirement that the taxpayers fund NPR or CPB.
I would still believe NPR's actions are shitty with respect to Juan Williams, but at least I could console myself by refusing to patronize NPR, an option currently expropriated from me at gunpoint.
Of course the usual suspects are changing the topic to horrible Fox News rather than have to discuss NPR's blatant and discriminatory (and probably actionable) censorship of uncomfortable commentary.
At least Fox News allows Juan Williams to speak his mind. Liberally, on many different shows and formats. Clearly, that's just too too much for the delicate flowers at NPR and their narrowminded and provincial (and vindictive!) listeners.
Also, Williams is far from being the only liberal on the Fox network (Shep Smith, Kirsten Powers, Geraldo, fatcranky Beckel, etc., in addition to an endless stream of liberal guests). In contrast, NPR is not fair and balanced. Does NPR employ any conservative on-air talent? UMMMMMMM(no). I once tuned in to NPR and heard a conservative opinion expressed. There was a brief pause and then everyone started laughing. HAHA. Joking! Fox News has a liberal anchor (Smith), and strong liberal presence among the commentators and analysts. NPR presents conservative opinions like they are a curious zoo exhibit as opposed to the majority opinion of the public. Compared to taxpayer funded NPR, Fox actually is fair and balanced.
Thanks fls.
Those taxpayer-funded programs can all pound sand.
Or go to hell.
Whatever.
"Fired NPR news analyst Juan Williams should have kept his feeling about Muslims between himself and "his psychiatrist or his publicist," the network's CEO [Vivian Schiller] told an audience at the Atlanta Press Club earlier today."
Typical lefty bullshit to use psychiatry as a weapon.
Nova is cool. We can keep that. I'd be happy if they shut down their "news" department. Seriously, it is inappropriate for government funding to go to a news organization. I don't see the contrary argument. The only reason people support it is they like what's reported. What kind of criteria is that?
And in fact, a lot more persusaive argment than garage's graph is: look who's defending them. 'Nuf said.
I only believe stats that agree with my already formed opinion. Question though: How would conservatives know NPR is liberally biased if they didn't listen to it? Well, we know why conservatives listen to it. Almost twice as many conservatives are cited as experts on NPR than liberals!
"How would conservatives know NPR is liberally biased if they didn't listen to it?"
I used to listen to it all the time. Stopped about 9 yearws ago. 9/11/2001, or thereabouts.
My wife listens to Wait Wait Don't Tell Me, but I still get the cold robbies seeing Those Dreaded Numbers on the FM dial.
At least Fox News allows Juan Williams to speak his mind. Liberally, on many different shows and formats.
If only there were two Juan Williams. The sobersided NPR analyst, and the freewheeling Fox commentator.
My solution -- too late now of course -- would be The Masked Pundit. Juan could have worn a Luche Libre mask and commented his head off.
"Question though: How would conservatives know NPR is liberally biased if they didn't listen to it?"
Because sometimes you can't get away from it. The cabdriver might have it on and refuse to change the channel and it is not worth getting out of the car. Or you might be in the health food store because you have to buy the stupid fucking Stuvia for your wife and they have it blasting and the five minutes you have to listen to it makes you want to gouge your eyes out with an organic zuchini.
That's how.
Among the lists NPR's sins, Prairie Home Companion is hipsterfied gruel for people who can't take their Americana straight.
Nah, conservatives like to listen to NPR, no matter what they tell you. It's okay Troop, it's not healthy to repress these tendencies though. It's 2010. C'mon
If your graph is to be believed, garage, it suggests conservatives are open minded.
Ah, Sarah. You could talk about the two colors of a stop sign and it would still get over 100 comments. Husband that gravitas.
Sorry, garage, but I haven't listened to it in nearly 10 years.
I tried to listen to the news on NPR while bored in Milwaukee last spring, being close to self-immolation as Beyonce was rerererepeated on the pop station, but I quickly switched to Dion and the Belmonts after 42 seconds of lefty spin had blood spraying outta my eyebones.
Serious Garage. I think of NPR the way you think about Fox news. They present news with a certain ideological tilt.
The only difference is the government is subsidizing it. To one degree or antoher.
Sometimes you are stuck listening to it like when they are broadcasting Senate confirmation hearings and you get to hear the very biased and hateful Nina Totenberg.
I think the government and my tax dollars should subsidize NPR in the exact same amount that it does FOX news.
I want all of my taxes to be spent on bombs and guns and bullets.
Oh and nukes. Can't forget the nukes.
So FLS, your research indicates that our $400 Million gets us about a dozen TV series ?
In the interest of full disclosure, I never listen to NPR.
Or Rush. Or Sean Hannity. Or Air America.
I listen to the sports station WFAN.
And WCBS for my oldies.
So there.
T our home we do listen to NPR and enjoy the shows such as Wait..Wait, Don't tell Me, Prairie Home Companion, Car Talk and George Harter's Musial Theater Heritage, and many special reports. But what cracks me up is the easy going and somewhat amused take of the News reporters about the End of the World news coming out about our economy and our current President that they report as if it is upbeat chit chat. Please leave their funding alone so that i can hear how they deal with President Palin's Administration. That will be comedy gold.
For some reason I don't listen to NPR either. Don't know why. I listen to ESPN radio during football season. I watch zero cable news, although I was subjected to about a week of it traveling on the road at hotels which all had Fox News on.
"Nah, conservatives like to listen to NPR, no matter what they tell you."
Same with libbies and FOX. Only FOX isn't getting gubmint money.
In appearing on TV or other media including electronic Web-based forums, NPR journalists should not express views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist. They should not participate in shows electronic forums, or blogs that encourage punditry and speculation rather than rather than fact-based analysis.
Why do I get the feeling they wouldn't have any problem with him appearing on MSNBC?
And why does that sound almost exactly like the marching orders the White House gave its staffers regarding appearing on Fox News?
What's Stuvia?
Does he dance with Bristol on DWTS?
Oh, yeah....off topic.
my bad!
Why do I get the feeling they wouldn't have any problem with him appearing on MSNBC?
'Cause you're a smart guy, Drew.
If NPR provides useful programs, it will have no problem doing so as a private enterprise.
Sesame Street isn't going anywhere. :)
Only FOX isn't getting gubmint money.
Haven't sourced any of this today, but there is this from Drudgico:
“We don’t report to any congressional committee,” she said. “NPR is an independent news organization that receives no direct federal money, and less than 1 percent of our budget comes from grants that we competitively seek from government-funded organizations like the CPB [Corporation for Public Broadcasting] and the NEA [National Endowment for the Arts].”
or such appearances may be revoked if NPR determines such appearances are harmful to the reputation of NPR or the NPR participant.
How deliciously ironic!
Has Juan thought to drop a crucifix in a vat of urine? They might feel obliged to take him back.
Amartel said...
Does NPR employ any conservative on-air talent? UMMMMMMM(no). I once tuned in to NPR and heard a conservative opinion expressed.
as evidenced by our Hostess and WPR, fair and balanced is putting two sides on the air, one socialist representing the left and the an Obama voter (Althouse) leading the conservative defense.
that's fair. 1 vote for Che, 1 for Obama.
I didn't put this all together, myself, but that's some double-standard:
Let's take a look back...
Since June, several reporters have been dismissed after media controversies over their offensive comments. Helen Thomas was forced into retirement in June after she said that the Jews should "get the hell out of Palestine" and "go home." CNN forced out Octavia Nasr in July for tweeting her condolences when a spiritual leader of Hezbollah died. And Rick Sanchez was let go from CNN in October after calling Jon Stewart a "bigot" and suggesting that CNN is run by the Jews.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/dont-cross-the-jews-do-cross-the-muslims-the-juan-williams-story.php
Revenant said...
Sesame Street isn't going anywhere. :)
Sesame Street might indeed end up elsewhere, but it would have bigger budget and certainly would not go off the air.
There is no equivalency between Helen Thomas' comments and Juan Williams' comments.
Bottom line in all this?
NPR hurt a bunch of Democratic incumbents who will need to take a position on this, while GOP candidates can just parrot a common sense Palin answer.
after the election, many Congress critters are going to be on record on the topic of not funding NPR.
Remember: It's a lot harder to get your line item in the budget for $400,000,000 than it is to stop a line item in either House.
Way back when:
"No AL, we scoff at you guy's claim that you are the tolerant ones.
"No, you really do scoff at tolerance."
Your saying it makes it so, I presume? I myself find that, first of all, Original Mike is right on, and second, Inigo Montoya is too, on the subject of the Left's use of the term "tolerance":
"You keep on using that word. I do no' think it means what you think it means."
"AlphaLiberal said....
Since June, several reporters have been dismissed after media controversies over their offensive comments. Helen Thomas was forced into retirement in June after she said that the Jews should "get the hell out of Palestine" and "go home." CNN forced out Octavia Nasr in July for tweeting her condolences when a spiritual leader of Hezbollah died. And Rick Sanchez was let go from CNN in October after calling Jon Stewart a "bigot" and suggesting that CNN is run by the Jews."
Which means that Juan Williams thinks that Muslims are Jewish. Or something like that.
I don't get what Alpha is driving at.
Oh well. I will wait for Cedarford to explain it in his own inimitable style.
Oh well. I will wait for Cedarford to explain it in his own inimitable style.
Lol.
Trooper, it's just the same old routine.
Religious and racial hatred are the bread and butter of the Left. Without them people would be left with reality, and nobody needs a social engineer/bureaucrat in the real world.
NPR will now ban all personal reactions that do not conform to standard broadcasting code.
"Programming" achieves a whole new meaning.
Trooper York said...
Which means that Juan Williams thinks that Muslims are Jewish. Or something like that.
hehe....
when a bunch of Hassidim hijack planes and blow up Dearborn MI, then I'll start getting concerned about a bunch of guys with Peyot on my NWA flight into Detroit.
Until then I'm going to focus my instinctive profiling on the biggest obvious threats.
"What's Stuvia?"
It's the brand name of a sugar subsitute that diabetics use made from the Stevia plant.
It actually isn't bad. Much healthier than Sweet and Low or Equal or any of those other posions they peddle.
Can you say "chilling effect," boys and girls?
I knew you could!
Hmmm 4 reporters fired and all 4 are from the swarthy parts of the world and all 4 were employed by liberal networks!
Was Juan Williams correct when he said he is the only on-air black male on NPR?
Roger J. said...
Wasnt it Jesse Jackson said said something to the effect
The quote
There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved....
from Pew Reserach:
Of those who listen to Limbaugh regularly: 80% conservative, 7% moderate, 10% liberal (General public: 35, 35, 20)
from American Journalism Review 1991 (OK its old):
Thirty percent of NPR listeners consider themselves conservative and 30 percent liberal, compared to 40 percent and 20 percent among the general population.
Having Listened to the usual gallery of (foul) quiffs on NPR for years, I can assure everyone that Juan has not been fired, he's been granted clemency.
No intelligent human being can listen to NPR for more than 5 consecutive minutes without concluding that the whole scheme is a joke.
Prairie Home Companion has nothing to do with NPR. But it appeals to NPR listeners, so stations affiliated with NPR often carry it.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Wisconsin Public Radio's delightfully rude Whad'ya Know.
I listen to NPR waiting for the commentators to name a city or country in Latin America with their faux, temporary, Spanish accents. It is worth the wait. England or London are never pronounced with an English accent. Why not? Here's why. There is no reason to express solidarity with the capitalist English,only the little brown brothers to the South. Well worth listening for the pronunciation of, my favorite, Sandinista. Always with a bit of a trill and always with passion and solidarity.
Was Juan Williams correct when he said he is the only on-air black male on NPR?
You betcha. Gwen Ifill and Michele Norris are the only Af-Am journalists on air.
NPR fired a black executive producer of its newscasts last year, Greg Peppers.
Always with a bit of a trill and always with passion and solidarity.
Che sara sara!
FLS said:
"Prairie Home Companion has nothing to do with NPR."
You are technically true except NPR is surely Prairie Home's biggest paying customer. Is it safe to guess NPR pays $10 Million to Garrison Keilor's production company?
The reason NPR has poor ratings is that they don't have enough midgets. Every show has to have midgets these days.
I mean look at this past Sunday. Boardwalk Empire had a whole subplot with midget boxers who formed a union to get more money to work on St. Paddy's day. Then Desperate Housewives had a midget on to scare the crap out of Vanessa Williams.
Midgets I tell ya. NPR needs more midgets.
Well except for mental midgets. They have plenty of those at NPR.
They need honest to goodness midgets like the one they had on Mama's Roadhouse last night.
Ratings gold man, ratings gold.
Here's something you'll probably never hear from me again:
Good for FOX News and good for Juan Williams.
Decorum's a great thing. Enforcing an appeal to fictional journalistic standards by barring the expression or admission of any base personal reactions that are worth exploring is just stupid.
This is how today differs from the golden age of broadcasting. The human element has been stomped out like a deflating balloon. The guy who reported on the Hindenburg and Walter Cronkite didn't have to put up with this shit.
Fox may actually be an attempt to regain some human elements in broadcasting. They start with some of the basest and most negative appeals, and don't tend to rise much higher than that. But given the uptight reaction of NPR, and the assumption that the sort of fear they revealed might not be so uncommon among the suits elsewhere, I'm glad that an outfit like FOX, as warped as it is, maintains enough power to take the contrarian stand in this instance.
I'm not sure that Williams is right, there may be some factual inconsistencies related to his "fear". But for the love of God, it's not like he was advocating the kind of intolerance that others commonly do and that makes journalism as inconsequential as the ministries depicted by Orwell.
Pogo must have been waiting for some vindication from me for a long time. Heh.
The midgets may have a good booking agent who told them going on NPR is career death.
Well you don't like to show you can be reasonable Ritmo. I know you are often very reasonable and can be in a genuine discussion when you aren't in the death cage atmosphere there is around here.
Now what's you're position on midgets?
The threat of death does tend to push people to extremes, Troop. ;-)
Anyway, re: midgets... I'll never tell!
But carry on anyway. I'll gladly listen in. lol.
Well I think Mara Liasson needs a midget just like Chelsea Handler.
Then she can have her own late night talk show. Just sayn'
El Pollo Real: Excellent!!! Che indeed. Plus: Con los pobres de la tierra. Subtext, but present in the background of the trilling.
That's actually too funny. I don't know why it made be belly laugh, but it did.
I'm sure Chelsea and Mara both have their peccadilloes as well as their strengths. But especially Chelsea. That lady speaks her mind a bit more freely.
Is it dumb of them to fire Williams? Sure.
Would he have been fired if he had made a remark about how seeing Tea Partiers, or Republicans, or white people made him nervous? Of course not.
But should he have expected to get fired for saying what he said on national TV? Well, duh. That's the world we live in.
Garage,
Defund Alaska as soon as you give the control of the lands of the state back to the citizens. After all the feds control most of the state and won't let the resident use it to make their own money. Look on the federal funding as rent.
Since we're talking about the obvious deficiencies of NPR, has anyone listened to Car Talk lately? They've basically stopped making "new" shows. Each week they have maybe 2 or 3 new calls or a new opening segment and the rest of the show is pieced together calls from years ago. Perhaps they think no one will remember that the calls are from old shows. Well, I remember everything, and I recognize the fact that so-and-so called in about pouring Coke on her battery terminals 10 years ago and they're presenting it as if it's a new call. Seriously, is it that difficult to produce a new 50-minute call-in show once a week? How much is Car Talk getting from NPR to produce a 1/4 of a new show a week? How much are local stations charged for essentially decade-old re-runs?
For all I know, Tom and Ray are dead and Car Talk is now some sort of radio-based "Weekend at Bernie's" thing...
Is it safe to guess NPR pays $10 Million to Garrison Keilor's production company?
To phrase it more accurately, the question becomes "Is it safe to guess that $10 million of the $30 million of the program purchase funds that CPB gives to NPR member stations eventually goes to Garrison Keillor's production company?" And I would say no, that paying one dollar out of every three they receive for just two hours of programming is unrealistic.
Trooper York: You didn't ask me, but I am deathly afraid of midgets. Really afraid. So, when a midget boards an airplane on which I am seated to whom does the midget progress? Correct. I was once blocking the box at 53 and 5th headed east on 53 when a pair of midgets, beautifully dressed, passed in front of my hood with only their hats showing. I showed restraint that day and for that they should be forever grateful. No midgets.
Would he have been fired if he had made a remark about how seeing Tea Partiers, or Republicans, or white people made him nervous? Of course not.
That would be a bold programming move for Fox. Hire a black bigot as a commenter.
"I'm sure Chelsea and Mara both have their peccadilloes as well as their strengths.'
Well I know they both have sex tapes out on the internet but I think only Chelsea uses peccadillo. But I could be wrong.
That is she uses a pecadilloe.
I believe it is a strap-on pecadilloe to be precise.
And once again there are midgets. Just sayn'
If Barack Obama can make political hay off the fact that his grandmother was apprehensive of black people then for the love of God the world's a big enough place to have Juan Williams on the air while he admits that exotically dressed Muslims boarding airplanes frighten him.
This country has really got to grow up.
Why are you avoiding the obvious, Troop? Just to hear me spell it out? Here, let me help you:
P-E-C-K-A-D-I-L-D-O-!
Quit beating around the bush.
So to speak.
(Actually, I love using that phrase as a form of sexual innuendo. There are so many variations).
Again, so to speak. That works both ways.
@Coketown
said: Juan's statement came dangerously close to raising the audience's pulse above 35 bpm,
We used it for ambient background to get the baby to sleep.
What's up with all the coincidentally minority reporters putting one. little. nail. of. a. pinky. toe. over the line and getting WHACKED.
It's makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Nuts. Everyone knows an anal firing when they see one - nearly everyone has experienced one themselves.
@Alpha Liberal: and the above it why no one really gives a shit about the corporate guidelines you post. And neither would you under different conditions.
Bad PR for them in any case. Stupid move.
Anybody who says he wouldn't feel apprehensive boarding a plane with a half dozen twenty-something Arab men is a goddam liar.
FLS,
When Alaska became a state, they should have had rights to their own land. Otherwise, keep them a territory.
This is a huge problem out in the west. The Federal government is the biggest land owner in my own state. And has used the national monument designation to limit economic growth.
Our remote sensors are indicating a knee-jerking error (Code K-503)in our Alpha Liberal puppet.
While annoying, this error improves on the previous jerking error we have been receiving (Code P-812). We are revising the software for reduced jerking. Apologies.
It wasn't on 53, it was on 52 because I was east bound and the midgets were headed south. Doubtless to Saks.
FLS,
What Nina should have done was offer her own daughter, if she has one, to service Bubba if she thinks his support for abortion was so wonderful.
the world's a big enough place to have Juan Williams on the air while he admits that exotically dressed Muslims boarding airplanes frighten him. This country has really got to grow up, he said as he took off his shoes, emptied his bag of all liquids, and walked through the x-ray scan on his way to a full-body pat down.
On SP: She is learning fast or has hired good writers. That was quick, easy to understand, and dead on point. She never brings up the arguments that Al (and others) use as straw men. No first amendment. No talk of illegal firing. Just bad judgment and constrained boundaries of discourse. I hope there is someone better out there who can beat her. But there is a wave of proletarian resentment of the credentialed gentry from both parties who have driven us into a ditch and then dug a hole ten times as deep to get us out. She may be able to ride it.
They have video of Juan Williams expressing his displeasure with the Muslims on his last flight.
FLS:
You are assuming the member stations don't fork over a fee to Keillor in addition to what he gets from NPR. What do you think he gets annually from NPR and all the local stations?
thank you for your views ms. stupid.
NPR is overwhelmingly supported by donation from listeners. the amout of government contribution is laughably small.
juan williams has been the token stooge on faux for a long time and he finally stepped in it. it isn't a matter of free speech that got him fired - NPR of all places is a free speech place - it is a matter of voicing an opinion as something of a representative of a network that tries very hard to be fair, objective and without opinion. he crossed that line. he got canned. now he can go to work full time for newscorp.
AJ Lynch said...
"You are technically true except NPR is surely Prairie Home's biggest paying customer. Is it safe to guess NPR pays $10 Million to Garrison Keilor's production company?"
Individual stations contract with PHC. NPR does not. It isn't safe to say that NPR pays the Keilor production $10million.
You have zero understanding of how NPR works and how member stations operate 24/7 with original and syndicated programming. none.
Gotta disagree with the substance of Juan's comments though - when I chose someone to keep my eye on in flight post-911, I never looked for someone in Muslim garb, but at ppl who looked like they might be sympathizers, but dressed to hide it. You know, like the actual guys dressed who brought down the plane, or the shoe bomber, etc. They weren't running around waving Qurans.
TRO said...
"If there were no federal funding for NPR - however it gets there - there would be no NPR."
idiot. all not true.
idiot. all not true.
Then why does NPR take federal funds?
“Stations are in fund-raising season, so it is unfortunate that this occurred at this time,” she said."
Snicker. Although I do wonder where I can go for my annual anne of green gables marathon. Oh yeah, Netflix! Never mind. Defund away!
lucid said...
"...NPR is government sponsored political speech...."
ahhh you must be listening to "Car Talk" or "Fresh Air" or "Performance Today"....all bigtime leftwing political shows....
what an idiot
Nothing speaks of the refined, nuanced, thoughtful sensibilities of an NPR listener than calling people "idiot" and "ms stupid in lowercase letters.
Irony, My husband and I do listen to NPR. Last night we were going over our yearly charities and he wanted to add back NPR.
Tonight, he said I guess they don't need our money.
hdwhodat wrote: NPR is overwhelmingly supported by donation from listeners. the amout of government contribution is laughably small.
Kind of like your intellect and grasp of English.
My solution -- too late now of course -- would be The Masked Pundit. Juan could have worn a Luche Libre mask and commented his head off.
Now I'm picturing Juan with a black dot and those voice changers, like a mafia informant! Fox should totally have him do that for a while.
What the hell happened to the left?
A liberal's supposed to explore, understand and rise above any potential biases he has. Not pretend that he can never have any.
Ritmo...Welcome to the political center. I always wished that you would join our side.
Did ritmo really just say that?
"A liberal's supposed to explore, understand and rise above any potential biases he has. Not pretend that he can never have any."
Yeah, that's what I thought Williams was doing in this instance. A lot of people seem not to have listened to the entire segment that got him fired, where he concludes that his fears about flying with conspicuous Muslim males was a bad thing.
Apparently you're not allowed to express this sort of honesty on NPR. The current, authoritatively bland, corporate NPR is a far cry from the kind of organization that they used to be. Like their viewpoint or not, they at least used to allow the rough edges of honesty and inquiry to show.
Yes, I just did, Mesquite.
Thanks for the welcome, TG. The political center feels quite cozy - I must say.
Sorry, I meant to say "mesquito".
"Ritmo...Welcome to the political center. I always wished that you would join our side."
See, I don't believe his comment represents a move to the political center, it's liberal, in the best, old-fashioned sense of the word, when it meant something more than dragging the party-line. Would that everyone from all over the spectrum would rediscover that kind of honesty and principle.
Does anyone really think NPR isn't terrified of Muslims?
That they don't worry about terrorist reprisals when they run Muslim-related content?
Does anyone believe that Nina Totenburg or Vivian Schiller would willingly board a plane with the flying imams?
Would that everyone from all over the spectrum would rediscover that kind of honesty and principle.
And so say we all!
See, I don't believe his comment represents a move to the political center, it's liberal, in the best, old-fashioned sense of the word, when it meant something more than dragging the party-line. Would that everyone from all over the spectrum would rediscover that kind of honesty and principle.
Which is why "statist" is probably a better description of those on the left these days than "liberal". "Progressive" is somewhere in the middle, but going out the door, as many are reminded of the rabid racism of Woodrow Wilson, one of the fathers of modern progressive thought.
Garage, just let this one go. Let Alpha do the self-immolation. This is not a winning issue for the left. I like that there are guys to the left of me who aren't morons. Folks who make me think. I lurk past Alpha and Jeremy posts. Not worth reading. You, I like to read. Ritmo did a good job on this one also. He's a funny guy. I appreciate and respect funny. His pseudo-intellectual bullshit irritates, but I think that's exactly what he's going for. You are at least his equal when you're not in Alpha mode.
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